Can you explain why women appear less innocent around less good guys?

[Anonymous]

1. BOTH of these guys meet the woman when she is in a relationship, become part of two different social circles of hers. Then the woman becomes SINGLE.

2. So if a caring and confident attractive guy who is good (sends sweet texts, is suave and smooth as well as kind, gentle and uplifting) flirts, he gets one reaction, whilst a guy who is more rowdy, doesn't send sweet texts and is less gentlemanly gets a less innocent woman?

Guy #1 is respectful, but also confident like a carey grant/casanova. He is suave, and whilst sweet, he is subtly attractive in his flirting. So think, smooth lines versus just brawling about like a schoolboy. When she poses with him she wraps her arm round his waist and vice versa. She smiles and is genuinely affectionate. On top of this, if there is a fun moment in an activity her laugh is genuine and her eyes wide with excitement. Flirty texts as well. He sends sweet texts and more often than not compliments her personality and qualities. He wants to compliment her appearance now she's single, but unsure. Doesn't converse by fb.

Guy #2 is much more rowdy/player like. Not suave and not sweet. Party like. Guy 2 also does lots of memes on his fb and takes a lot of photos. He is fun, but certainly no sweet gentleman or sweet texts. More in your face. His compliments are about looks, never really compliments personality. Has more photos with her, being in a social club with her. One of his fb posts is with her, her hand on his shoulder, and four other girls around him, it's labelled #likeaboss. She "likes it" on fb, tho no comment. She converses more often by text with guy 2.

3. She texts guy 2 more often with general jokes and also friend stuff. Guy 1 less often, but more in depth and longer text convos. Closeness/sweet in them. As for posing, maybe more innocent around guy 1, more party like when in groups with guy 2?

4. Explain her behavior and who she would bang, stay life friends with and do BOTH (casual sex and then still friends)?

Updates

+1 y

PLEASE ANSWER BY REFERRING TO EACH OF THE 4 POINTS. Thanks.

Updates

+1 y

To be clear:

Guy 1 AND Guy 2 are technically both friends of the girl. They both met her when taken and now she has become single. With guy 1, he has never had her call him by the word friend.

Guy 1 and the girl text less often, but often much deeper and exciting. She shares a lot with him.

Guy 2 and the girl might text more often, but short bursts and friend stuff.

Guy 1 and her have met up before and she's going to be based closer to him soon. He wonders how to act?

[Anonymous]

I think that what we have here is a clash between men and woman's double standards, or let's say, society's double standards.
Assuming that the girl is somehow open with her sexuality, chances are, she will be more open about what she wants in sex with the guy who is open about what he wants in sex too, and are clear with what both want: sex. She will not care what he is going to think about her in the end, because, once again, chances are, the guy IS going to think badly of her and not really think about her as a long-term relationship material woman, even if he really enjoys sex with her, chances are, he will not be interested in going further with this girl more than in a sexual way, and she is perfectly aware of that.
Although, women are somehow more prepared to accept as a potential long-term partner a man who has a record of being a player but have somehow proved to "have changed" (mainly because he treats her with RESPECT), men are not prepared to accept a girl with a "wild past", they want, in general terms, the "normal" family-oriented girl in whom they can trust. It can be a lot of reasons for that, but in general, is focused on an underlying insecurity that leads to a lack of trust on a woman with a lot of experience. He might doubt of his habilities in comparation with other guys she have been with before. A girl with less experience will not have a wide expectrum to compare with, and some guys will feel more confortable with that. This is also, a doble standard, since man think on women as the ones for f**** and the ones that will be the mother of their children. Most women got the news, so go figure.
So, the woman who wants to have something serious with certain guy, will try to avoid to fall in the "only for f****" woman" idea, as she obviously wants more than sex.
So, both, men and woman are victims of preconceived ideals and fears.
The "good guy", in this case, will be the the guy that they are attracted to AND treat them nicely aka with respect and consideration.
Are you the "good guy" and also want to be the guy who gets the whole deal with sex? You probably will have to go above that preconceived ideas and prove your own self-confidence, so she can be confident with you too.

[Asker]

Damn, thank you phD!! Very interesting and well written about the psychology of this phenomenon. I do see your points. I wonder if you could clarify and also relate specifically to my issue here?

So I get that some women think like this as do some men. Tbh in my opinion, provided I like a lady, then the past is their past. If they are single, and they like me, I would love to connect with them and if we hit it off, be intimate with them. And that means being kinky, very very kinky with a really nice innocent girl. I'm not about fucking girls who aren't nice and then settling down having sown my oats already. I want to fuck and be dirty with a girl I connect with.

Now in this case, I (guy 1) and guy 2 met her when she was taken with a boyfriend. Naturally I hit it off with her and connected. She kept in touch. Please see the description above for full details, but bottom line is there is something there. She is SINGLE now.

With guy 2, I'm a bit surprised she is a bit less innocent seeing

[Asker]

a fb picture, but then again thinking to our interactions, she has wrapped her arm round my waist and poses with me more privately and much closer. Not to mention, I feel like guy 2 might be more of a texting buddy/fb guy (they are in the same after work hobby club) compared to our interaction where we have more deep convos etc as well as occasional fun at activities or meet ups.

Tbh guy 1 would like to flirt more now she is single. Given his carey grant like nature (so he is confident, suave, smooth as well as a gentleman) can he be perceived as someone sexual given how they first met?

Could you explain her reaction on fb to guy 2 and her texting interaction with him versus guy 1?

Since guy 1 treats her like a lady without such objectification, how should he proceed and could they be intimate (sexual) if he is a virgin and would love to lose that to her?

But above all, he wants to be friends forever as he cares about her (he's not trying to hit and quit)?

Is she really innocent?

[Opinion Owner]

Hahahaha I'm sorry, this was meant to be in your other post (I think is yours).
I think you are overthinking it too much. The thing is that there is no way to really know what she is thinking and there is no rule for people behaviour. If you want to really know, you might have to ask or take your chances knowing that it might go as you want or in a completely different way.
So guy 1 and 2 want casual sex, but guy 1 don't want to loss her as a friend. I think if guy 1 wants to keep the intimacy and have sex with her, he better start thinking in a potential relationship. Otherwise, he should be really clear about it as early as possible.
Guy 1 can try to be more direct with his signals while taking the opportunities that she gives or wait until she send you more direct signals and be ready to act (you better go ahead to the other guy).
Why are you so worry about her innocence? You should treat her nicely anyway, you care about her, right?

[Asker]

Hi no worries, I didn't see any other post but thanks for replying here haha. I guess there is no rule, I mean I was just wondering, what her liking the fb post meant. Does she like that type of behavior or was it just a friend liking another friend's post given she didn't actually comment on it unlike other girls?

I'm worried if I convey that I always found her attractive, that it might become awkward or I risk losing her? I mean I'd like to lose my virgnity to her, that would be something. But can I? When I say relatonship versus having sex, it's cos of logistically it's harder for me to date now (i don't live in the city atm unlike earlier). And having sex with her, but not quitting her afterward. I would still be her friend hopefully forever since I value her?

How to be more direct if u know her already?

What do u mean "you better go ahead to the other guy"?

I would treat her nicely anyway as I do care about her a lot. I like her innocence but wouldn't mind seeing her wil

[Asker]

Thoughts

[Anonymous]

People often mirror the ones they're talking to, especially when they feel positive towards that person.
I had a friend who dated a guy with a strong accent for one week, after that week she spoke in the same accent for about a month.
When you're with a very upbeat person, you act more that way around them too. When you're wuth someone more relaxed, you'll feel yourself become a bit more chill as well.
This isn't about which guy she likes more. Suppose she likes both equally much, this would be a normal reaction of her. How much she exactly likes them is irrelevant.
Additionally, when you want someone else to think positively of you/like you more, you act in a way you think they'll apreciate. With guy 1, this is more seriously and less on social media than with guy 2, who probably likes harsh jokes better, or at least the womab will think so.

[Asker]

That's a really interesting point! So she or women mirror their surroundings?

I kinda get what you mean, can you clarify though? So it's not so much preferring guy 2 in acting less innocent/more suggestively in photos etc then? For instance, I kinda feel like she has a deeper connection with guy 1 and states her admiration of him also (to him). It's more of a private relationship like you say or over the phone versus social media.

With guy 1 she does wrap her arm round him and pose for photos. It's just what about her reaction to guy 2's post with her and other women (likedaboss) which she "liked" on fb?

How does guy 1 know whether she likes harsh jokes? Or she prefers his current flirtation? Is guy 1 actually someone she would prefer a sexual relationship with or even a hookup?

Both are friends of her, they met her when she was taken. Guy 1 has never heard the word friend. Now she's single, how does she perceive them and could she erm, date or bang and still be friends forever?

[Opinion Owner]

It depends on the woman which one she'll like better. Based on this information it could go either way.

All people mirror others, mostly subconsiously. It's how children learn languages, it's why certain areas have their own accents.

[Asker]

I like your point. Ok given what I've mentioned, and also the fact she is a very sweet and nice girl (who also has fun during specific moments/activites with people she likes) what do you reckon?

I do see your point about mirroring. So in that case, what should guy 1 do?

Based on the details I posted to you in my reply earlier could you comment on what I asked about the fb, the texting (to both), and the in person interactions?

[Opinion Owner]

Sounds like you are guy one.
Also sounds like this girl wants the whole package. If I was her, I'd be happy to have fun with guy 2 but it wouldn't mean much since I couldn't connect with him as deeply as with guy 1. Guy 1 however is less fun to hang out with though, I'd be scared to get bored in a relationship with him.

Guy 1 should make more jokes and be more outgoing if he wants to get the girl, but without losing the connection they had. Gradually bring the jokes in, make them slightly sexual but not distasteful at first so you don't shock her with a sudden change. Show you are fun too, besides having that reliability the other guy lacks.

Guy 2 would need to connect more emotionally with her like guy 1 if he wants her. If she is goimg to choose ome of the 2 (that's still an if), she'll pick the one who seems most like he's compatible with her in everything instead of just in one aspect.

[Asker]

Hi, yeah I guess so. But how precisely do you judge guy 1 to be less fun? I think the word count limited my descriptions.

1. Guy 1 is suave and fun. The whole reason she kept in touch with him after uni despite having a boyfriend is because he is fun. She tells him she admires him, she had fun with him doing activities on events or days out etc. He isn't boring lol.

2. Guy 2, how are you classing him as fun?

3. Explain your point that you might have "fun with guy 2"? Why not have fun (I presume you mean sex) with guy 1? Pls see the full descriptions as I think you have misinterpeted this as boring guy vs fun guy?

4. Guy 1 does joke with her and she likes it either text or in person. What he does do is be subtle, he'll make her laugh. Guy 2 just posts stuff on fb with her and primarily other girls. And it's leaning towards objectification. She hasn't banged him by the way.

5. Suggestions on what guy 1 should do?

6. Her reaction to guy 2 on fb?

7. Can she have sex and still be friends after?

[Asker]

Thoughts

[Opinion Owner]

1. okay, different kind of fun. easy going? exciting? I don't know the correct word.
2. Dunno, parties and stuff appear to be the reason she likes him. He's not my type though so I dunno.
3. I didn't mean sex-fun, I meant getting wasted together and going to clubs-fun.
4. okay.
5. Nope, no more.
6. what?
7. Depends on the girl. I can, a lot can't.

[Asker]

1. Guy 1 is both of what you describe. He's easy going and exciting. He uplifts her by text and also in person when she sees him. He's also very sweet. But yes he is FUN. He's more reserved like her, but she feels great round him.
2. Guy 2 is more of an "out there" guy yes. But when you say parties, it's her hobby club socials etc where they meet in groups. So yeah he poses a lot and has women pose round him to put on fb. He's not fun in the guy 1 way, but more jokes, and in your face fun?
3. She doesn't drink. I don't think they have got wasted together. Sure he's at parties she is at. But it seems to be as friends?
5. As in if guy 1 is a charming, confident and nice person, how does he get her to completely loosen up and not worry about having to look innocent to him?
6. As I described in the question. Guy 2 had her and 4 other girls pose round him. On fb he labelled it as "likedaboss". She clicked like. But she didn't comment like other girls?

[Asker]

7. Can she have sex with guy 1 given they have some deep connection. She doesn't know but he is a virgin and would love his first time to be with her. But also he really values her as someone he cares about and would want to be friends for life?

[Opinion Owner]

Guy 1 needs to ask her on a date

[Asker]

Hahah that's what I'm kinda asking tho. Given my 7 points and the fact she's gonna be living closer to him now (but still have to commute to see), what should he do?

How can he ask so he doesn't lose a friend?

[Opinion Owner]

'Hey, I really care about you as a friend and think you're a cool person, but lately I've felt I might want it to be more. I'd like to go on a date with you. If you don't feel the same that's totally fine, in that case just forget that I asked, but I wanted to give it a shot.'

[Asker]

Yeah but I've heard things can be awkward after or women lose respect for guys who say that?

That's what worries me. She currently admires me a lot, and we have a mutual respect and buzz around each other. I really don't wanna be in a situation where she is suddenly contacting me less etc.

Can you say it without saying "date" and telling her that by text. So just in general that she grew on me in person. And maybe mention I always thought her cute though.

But how do you ask her to meet so there is no way it can be a group thing, and is a solo meet? E. g. a welcome back treat?

[Opinion Owner]

She won't lose respect and things only get awkward if you make them awkward. If you can prove you can be normal, it'll be normal. I think she'll say yes though.

[Asker]

You think she will? How to know?

[Sara413]

We tend, both men and women, to act like the people we're with... whether it's someone of the opposite sex or not. Even when we aren't trying to impress anyone we do this. It's called responding to the social atmosphere.

It's why when you're with a louder more rambunctious group of friends, you're a bit more rambunctious. Why when you're chatting in a small group with a quite bunch of people, you're quieter.

When two people are flirting, generally one will take the lead and set the tone and the other will respond in kind.

As for who she'd be more likely to sleep with or hook up with? Depends on the woman and what she actually wants...

[Sara413]

And before you demand an answer to each exact numbered point, don't bother. You were incredibly annoying to deal with lady time you posted a similar question. This is the only answer you're getting.

[Asker]

Thanks for answering. Interesting points. Sorry not sure what question you mean, don't think that was me?

You actually addressed a nice issue and seem to have read it unlike a few people here who started pasting stuff about nice guys and bad boys lol. I specifically described two guys in real life.

I get what you mean, so are you saying people mirror their surroundings? I think this woman is a more innocent one in general, but one who lets loose or has fun with the right people. I mean guy 1 has seen her be fun with him in the past, but held back owing to the boyfriend. Now she's single, I guess he can flirt more?

What do u make of her reaction to guy 2 on fb? Is it cos it's in a group setting? She didn't comment, but liked it.

As for texting, she has deeper stuff with guy 1, and more of a text buddy thing with guy 2? What do u think?

Can guy 1 and the girl ever be intimate? And still be friends?

What can guy 1 do now she's single?

[Sara413]

I can't answer any of those questions because I don't know own her...

Assuming you are "guy 1" here, just grow some balls and ask her out...

[Asker]

The idea is you hypothesize or provide your thoughts as to why she might do those things. If you have anything helpful rather than abusive language such as what you just said, then please do comment.

[Sara413]

Abusive? All I said we grow some balls lol

If you like the girl, ask her out. Then you'll know for sure whether she is interested or not. If you just keep texting her all the time without ever making a move, you're placing yourself firmly in the friend zone.

[Asker]

Yeah did you read the question haha? How can you ask out a girl with a boyfriend? Thus you can't do anything.

Now if she becomes single?

And once again, what do you make of her fb reaction to guy 2?

And her texting and in person interactions with guy 1?

[Sara413]

You said she became single...

[Asker]

Yes. So you can ask out a friend?

Again, what do you make of her fb reaction to guy 2?

And her texting and in person reactions with guy 1?

[Sara413]

There's nothing to make of any of it... she liked a picture on Facebook? And? That has to mean something? Lol

You're reading way too far into everything with this girl.

I stand by what I said before: instead of trying to figure out everything she is thinking about you and or about another dude, if you like the girl and she is single, just ask her out and see what happens...

[Asker]

Haha good point. It's just with that guy 2, she posed with 3 other girls around him and he labelled it on fb as "like a boss" and she clicked the like button? Tho she didn't comment on it like the other girls.

With guy 1, she poses much closer to him hand around waist etc and has deeper convo's etc. More private photos etc, than on fb.

Ok, but if you ask her out, how can you still be friends afterward? Not to mention, can you be intimate and still be friends years later?

[Asker]

Thoughts on the fb, and the dating?

Oh and also what about the texting - so guy 2 has more constant texts, but mainly logistics about group meets and the hobby club they're in. With guy 1, more deep convo's and excitement to hear from him or asks about his life.

[Sara413]

"Ok, but if you ask her out, how can you still be friends afterward? Not to mention, can you be intimate and still be friends years later?"

Does it matter? What's more important to you - your feelings for this girl, or your friendship with her?

If you're not willing to gamble the friendship, you're gonna have to get over the feelings you have for her. and accept that friends is all you'll ever be.

If you like her enough, it's worth taking the gamble and asking her out. If she says yes, you get to date her. If she says no, then you can decide whether you want to still try to be friends or whether it's too hard.

This is all just part of life, dude. When you want something or someone, you've gotta take risks. You can't just sit there and try to puzzle out her every thought and feeling to decide whether to ask her out or not. You've just gotta put your big boy panties on and take the risk...

[Asker]

Well yeah it matters. So for instance, I wouldn't want a situation, where afterward we aren't friends down the line in life. She is unique in that she is someone nice unlike the many many other girls I met at uni etc. But I also find her attractive? I don't feel like she's the one tho, but she is someone very cute and nice?

Ok, it's just she's single, so I feel like I should flirt now to let her know she is physically attractive to me?

How do u know if she has reciprocal feelings based on what I have mentioned above

What about the fb thing I mentioned?

And her comparable reactions to each guy in person as I stated in my previous reply to you?

[Sara413]

"How do u know if she has reciprocal feelings"

You don't.

It's that whole risk taking thing I just talked about...

None of what you posted gives me or anyone else the ability to read her mind. This is gonna be my last response because I'm tired of repeating myself.

- There is no way to know whether she likes you or not except to ASK.
- Dating takes risk. If you're not prepared to take risks, you're not prepared to date.
- So decide whether she's worth the gamble and if she is, ask her out.

Good luck.

[Asker]

There's no point in you responding. I think you're not reading my responses to you lol?

[Sara413]

I am, it's just that your questions are pointless.

[Asker]

So it's pretty rude to just ignore it. I came here for help not preaching?

My questions aren't pointless, I asked some valid ones, which you haven't responded to. If you responded to a guy's texts selectively like this, then don't be surprised if he started talking to another girl instead, one who actually reads and responds to his whole message.

[Sara413]

Sorry for trying to be actually helpful?

[Asker]

But you didn't try at all. You didn't respond to the actual question I was asking? That isn't being helpful nor trying to be, do you not understand that?

I asked about the fb thing, how she reacts to each guy, neither point you responded to.

I then asked about asking her out and possibly being intimate with her. This you partly answered.

I would appreciate you talking about my points if you truly want to be helpful or want to try or know.

[ice_cat]

I probably can't answer this question with any certainty because I just don't have the experience (for rather complex reasons). I think that what she does with each guy will depend highly on the girl. Ironically, I would probably actually be Guy #2. I have no real problem with Guy #1, however, I've met a lot of people who THINK that they're Guy #1, when in reality they're probably just terrified and try to be as nice as possible out of fear.

I was definitely Guy #1 in a bad way at some point, because I lacked confidence around girls. It has taken me years to become comfortable to the point where I can joke around girls and tease them (I was bullied in school, usually by girls so I was always uncomfortable around them). Also, I have seen many Cary Grant movies, and you should probably note that he isn't always "nice," he knows when to be fun, and when to be serious and sweet. Finding that balance is very hard. The total douche player doesn't know when to be serious so connecting with him is a challenge. Similarly the sometimes overly sweet Guy #1 makes the relationship a little awkward without occasional incidents of poking fun and teasing.

Anyway, I have honestly rarely seen Guy #2 in a relationship with a girl that should be with Guy #1. Who she chooses is often dictated by her life choices and there probably isn't really a correct answer. It's hard for me to say because I lack experience in this regard, I would argue that having traits of both is important but who the girl decides to pursue a relationship with will depends on her personality. Maybe sweet texts really aren't important to her? Maybe she's very independent and likes to party?

I don't know if that answers your question lol. In my opinion Guy #2 often has the ability to bring out certain traits in people. Some women may like it, others won't be affected by him and just ignore him.

[Asker]

A golden answer, and it seems the only one who has made some attempt at answering the question! Appreciate this. Ok I see your points, but have some questions. Firstly by the way, you do know your stuff and can answer this.

I just want to make clear tho in this situation the guy 1 is a confident guy as well as being nice. So he more of a carey grant or harrison ford. He does poke fun as well as being sensitive. And he uplifts her. He is equally if not more attractive than guy 2. So he has that balance, but maybe is a bit nervous.

2. Could you explain in point 2. what her perceptions of each guy would be? Might be easier to answer this in numbered points? I. e. can u explain that fb reaction for guy 2 and how she acts around guy 1 in terms of texting and in person?

And thoughts on 3 and 4?

[ice_cat]

Well the Facebook reaction seems pretty logical to me. I've met guys like this and they're sort of buffoonish. This can be seen as a different kind of friendzone. I doubt the girl actually "likes" it in the way that you're thinking. Remember, none of her interaction with that guy is "sweet" and their Facebook relationship is mostly the same. It's mostly meaningless fun. In fact, I've met some guys like this and watched them get rejected (or slapped lol). Almost immediately after the girl will follow him on Instagram or something. She may even like his stuff. But the nature of the interaction is totally different. In a way there's no pressure, he's just some ridiculous party guy, whereas liking Guy #1's stuff is making a much deeper and more meaningful statement.

I think point number three can be addressed along the same lines. The party guy is often a friend and just because she's less "innocent" around him doesn't necessarily mean that there's anything more to the relationship.

[ice_cat]

As for point 4, I really don't know the answer to that. It depends on the girl and it also depends on where she is in her life. In my experience, educated girls rarely end up marrying the party friend. Some girls do end up marrying these types of guys, probably because their personalities are compatible (most of these marriages end, at least the ones I've seen). Anyway, it's a complicated question. In my opinion Guy #2 is actually the so-called "friendzone" guy. Guy #1 could also be in a similar situation. Who the girl settles down with is highly dependent on her personality.

[Asker]

Thanks for replying. Right so:
2. Ok, so FB reaction is normal? So she "likes" it on fb, despite the buffoonish/slightly objectifying nature of the post? I mean he called it "likeaboss" and another one was "with pretties", withfitties". Ahh so is guy 2 in the friend zone? Lol that's ironic. I see so she doesn't actually connect with him tho? Right so guy 1 is the guy who she might be into and actually would be intimate (sexually) with? It's just how does he see her wilder side?

3. Right so she'd text guy 2 more often as a friend? And guy 1 less often, but more deep stuff cos he might, just might be more? Or at least a closer more deep friend?

4. Yeah good point. That's a really good take on this. So guy 2 is the friend zone guy. Poses only. But real touching off the camera is with guy1 (who she also wraps her arm round his waist with her photos)? Settle down with is complicated. What about being life friends with? And also hooking up and still being friends? Can guy 1 get that?

[Asker]

E. g. guy 1 and her may not be each other's one right? So they'd just be friends. But can they bang and then still continue as usual given they are both nice ppl? How does either initiate?

[Asker]

Thoughts?

[ManOnFire]

I think you asked this before, and I answered that one.

[Asker]

Nah. My question is about two specific guys described above?

About her reaction to one on fb and in general to both in texting and in person?

And finally about possible sex and still being friends after?

[Asker]

Eh? Thoughts

[ManOnFire]

Well, I agree with the main premise of your question. Women do pick and choose which men they want to appear innocent with. It could be the wrong/bad guy she wants to be sexual and open with, but the decent guy she wants to be innocent around. It is true. And then sometimes it's vice versa, she wants to be innocent with the bad guy and sexual with the good guy. But it does seem to be that many times she wants to act innocent with the good guy because she doesn't want him to think of her as dirty for being sexual and open like she would be with the bad boy.

[Asker]

Mind blowing stuff, i like it! Yes it does appear that this is the case, despite many women suggesting otherwise. So why would she think guy 1 in this case would think her being dirty? I mean she is very innocent and cute/sweet, but in a way that excites him as he imagines how naughty she could be or in fact is?

In this situation as she is single now, can he voice attraction and what is he perceived as?

Could you explain her reaction to guy 2 on fb as described above?

[ManOnFire]

I've had experiences myself with females in both situations you're talking about. Certain girls I liked, showed more attention to a player because he did things that really excited her and touched all her hot spots, yet with me she wanted to be sweeter and more innocent. I think this is because women sometimes perceive the sweet guy as not being someone she can be dirty and sexual with, and also thinks because he's sweet that he doesn't know how to be fresh and naughty, so they think you're great as a friend, but boring when it comes to naughty stuff, without even giving you a chance.

Then I've also experienced being the really fresh, naughty guy with a female, and she really loved that, and loved it even more when I showed her that side. And other times, it turned some women off. So it's a tricky situation. I know exactly what you're talking about though.

[Asker]

Damn I think you should be a professor in this hahah. I totally hear what you're saying. It's very tricky and I agree with your points. I've had similar experiences where maybe being naughtier with one girl and then more the great guy perception with another.

In this specific case, I wouldn't call her behaviour to me outright innocent. As guy 1, I think she admires me a lot (she tells me that often) and finds me exciting, but also a gentleman. She is moving closer to me for work and has mentioned that she hopes we'll see each other more often etc. I guess guy 2 is more player like, but it doesn't appear to have worked in terms of her sleeping with him. But yes, she might seem to be less innocent (e. g. fb pose) at times in a group setting with them. Does that pose and her reaction mean anything?

But then again, she's closer to me when posing and also talks more deep stuff. And still in touch. Would she give me a chance? She has been very fun doing certain activities with me?

[Asker]

Problem is she has just become single and I knew her beforehand. But I agree on the giving a chance and acting naughtier. I mean I would be totally fine with her acting as wild as she likes with me!

I think I do excite her, just given we're both a bit innocent/shy at least to the outside world, how you get her to reveal it being a gentleman still?

[ManOnFire]

Well, since you guys are friends or well-acquainted with each other it should make things easier. I would just start flirting with her and start inching in some really naughty things you could say. To me surprise with a lot of women who may have first viewed me as innocent, once I got really fresh with them they liked that. Sometimes I got all-out foul and detailed to them sexual thoughts I had about them or what I would want to do with them, and they seemed really blown away by that and really got hooked on to me. So I would so to try getting there with her, but maybe not to the all-out foul point like me yet, lol.

If you're both kind of shy and innocent as you're saying, it could be that she knows that too, but doesn't think being dirty and naughty can work with you but with some other guy who's like that. So you have to surprise her and show her that you can be like that. And I think the results should be good.

[Asker]

That's a really great point on shy/innocent behaviour. I guess they treat you how you treat them?

But how do I do it now. I held back cos of her relationship status and now that has changed. I met her once before (when she was here for a day only) solo and loved that time. So how do I arrange solo time or should I indeed go to a reunion of ex classmates when she gets back here (she's moving back here after working abroad).

Can you explain how to surprise her in a good way, inching in some naughty things so she craves it/likes it from you?

And fun/flirty things to do to welcome her back (I have to commute so have to plan a day out with her really)?

[ManOnFire]

You can wait for the reunion if you want, yeah. Or, if you already know how to contact her I would tell her outright that "I've had you on my mind and thought it'd be nice for us to see each other again." Something along those lines.

I think it would depend on what situation you two are in and how your conversation is going. Something will give you the opportunity to say something fresh. Sometimes saying something outright naughty like, "God, you have such a sexy mouth, I love your lips" can really do it. But you would want to say that while you guys are actually talking and you notice her mouth. Sometimes chicks get really giggly about that stuff, and others don't know what to do with it. In the event that it makes her feel awkward, just tell her casually, "Wasn't trying to freak you out or anything," and then just go on to the next thing.

Welcome back flirts are easy, you'll do fine with that. You can say anything from "Look at you, still bringing sexy back as always," to

[ManOnFire]

"It's about time I saw you again, I haven't seen sexiness in forever," and then give a coy kind of smile. Chicks usually love that stuff.

[Asker]

Haha ok first and foremost, I LOVE that sexy back line. I do want to say that but am slightly scared to, can I? I mean I was gonna go with stunner or gorgeous, but can I just outright say it given compliments have been personal mostly so far?

Yeah group reunion wise, I don't mind, but then is that good to build more intimate rapport or to set a precedent given it's been a long time since seeing her? Yeah contacting will be by text. I mean I promised to welcome her in style (attempting to flirt and she joked back at it). Trouble with saying be good to catchup/nice to see you, in case it reverts to suddenly ex classmates in the city being invited to a lunch or something.

I'm hoping for something along the lines of a 1 on 1 meet like you said. So a date in all but name and asking about maybe a dinner, bowlnng maybe? What do u think, and how do you phrase so it's absolutely clear it's a treat for her from me or a solo meet?

[Asker]

Thirdly, in terms of saying naughty things, I really like that mouth one. It's just worried it might be too forward to suddenly say god she has such a sexy mouth? I mean don't get me wrong, I have always thought that about her. It's one of her cuter features, along with her nose. Her mouth particularly became part of my favourite things about her when she ate a banana one day. So how do you know if innocent women will like this and what can you say? Examples or how to ease into it, so she loves/craves it from you?

Welcome back flirts, yeah so hoping to do that. I like the sexy back one, I'm confident and a bit of a gentleman, she does find me exciting, it's just I'm slightly worried about making it awkward? But then again, she is single now? I wish I had your experience haha.

What are your thoughts sir?

[ManOnFire]

I really don't think you have much to worry about using the sexy back line or making the statement about her mouth. In fact she will probably really like that you said that about her mouth because it'll probably make her think: "Wow, I have a sexy mouth? Hahaha!" Especially if she's never really had a guy say that kind of thing to her.

I see what you mean about the reunion vs. one-on-one. I would opt for meeting her one-on-one and making it clear you wanted the both of you to get together. And tell her just that: "Have had you on my mind and really wanna get together, my treat. Was thinking bowling. You want to?" Pretty simple like that.

Innocent women usually like being told they're sexy in some way because they probably don't think it about themselves, so I think she will definitely appreciate any flirting or fresh words you tell her. And if she doesn't then you can give me the finger, lol. But I'm pretty sure you'll do fine.

[Asker]

Great points, haha can you teach me the art of talking to female friends please? :D

Yes, I mean it might be sudden to say the sexy back line. Actually can you explain it, is it a reference she will get in the uk? But I do like it if it conveys a flirtatious overtone that will relax her and put the innocent behaviour behind us now she's single?

On that statement about the mouth, yes it just makes me scared in case it's out of line to say it. I mean I have ALWAYS thought she had a very sexy mouth. One day she was eating a banana and I was virtually the only audience if I remember correctly. She wasn't single then, but i did not know what to say. In future, what could I for something like ice cream, hot dogs, bananas etc?

I mean would she appreciate a guy who she has a cute/deep interaction with like me with slightly suave/flirty undertones if I told her "You have a really sexy mouth you know!". How does the conversation proceed from there though? I do think it, but nerves?

[Asker]

Yes as for reunion vs 1 on 1. I mean a group thing can allow you to flirt with others and use social proofing I suppose through being a fun person. Trouble is it can tend to be sometimes too girly or too formal an activity (high tea) or else be highly erratic and stressful in nailing down a time to meet (the girls and one or two guys are highly highly flaky). Last time we bowled was in a group and she asked me to show her how (i. e. touching). I'd love to do it again, but worried that she might say something like shall I invite others, or see who else is free?

How do you respond to that and still sound like a gentleman, not a jerk in saying, no just us? I really don't get how women don't get when you like them lol? Any other way to tell her about me treating her to welcome her home to a lunch/bowling/dinner, what's best?

Right so being innocent she'd love it being told she's sexy? It's just can I use the word "sexy" or stunning? How do you ease into it now she' single?

[ManOnFire]

Haha. When you have female friends, especially ones you've known for some time, you really don't have to work too hard at how you talk to them. If she's known you as a friend all this time I doubt she'll really just get so offended or turned off by something you say. Just keep being your casual self, that's what is appreciated.

I thought 'sexy back' was pretty universal now, even in the UK, lol. It came from Justin Timberlake's old song. She might get it, she might not. But if you're not sure if she use it just use something like "You've really got the room on fire!" Lol.

I DO think outright telling her "You have a really sexy mouth you know!" will go very well. It will make you feel good to say what you always want to say, and it will surprise her to know that some guy is thinking that about her even if she doesn't think she has a sexy mouth.

I think you really need to stick to getting alone with her. That will mean something. It sends to the message that you want this to be

[ManOnFire]

just about you two. If she suggests bringing other people, tell her, "Well, I thought it'd just be nice if it was the 2 of us," or even straight-forward: "I really wanted us to just spend some time with each other." She'll probably be like, 'He wants to spend time with me? Like a date? Wowwww.' I don't think the reaction can be bad at all. And I don't think using the word "sexy" with her will either. It will probably make her laugh in a good way. When you see that you know it'll be cool to keep going from there.

[Asker]

Hahah! Yes that's a great point. I mean I told one one day looking attractive. But that's one I guess I'm not into or nervous about, so I just texted that to which she laughed and seemed very keen afterward so much that she was talking about meeting up lol. Yes I guess with this great girl, she does really find me exciting and there's a happy/buzz vibe about. I am a gentleman I guess and as well as my energy/drive, she admires that too so i guess just be who I am?

I would like to say something along the lines of her being very cute/attractive as most of my compliments are based on genuinely being amazed at her qualities which I think she loves?

Yes I was just wondering if she'd get it, might as well. Yeah the room on fire is good. What context can you use 'sexy back' in a convo?

I LOVE telling her "You have a really sexy mouth you know!". But I'm just scared if she gets awkward or it's too forward? Would she appreciate it and how does the convo go from there? Is it pure sexual?

[Asker]

I agree that line could really energise the friendship/relationship. At the very least we become ourselves without the innocent facades? We're both fun people but very nice too, but I have a sneaky suspicion that she must be a real minx. And honestly, I love her mouth expression and yeah she has a really sexy mouth. Eating alone with her is an exercise in focussing on what she is saying not on where those words are coming from!

Totally concur on meeting her alone. Now she's single, it should be fine yes? I met her once before like that and hope to again from now on. Right, that's what I was looking for! So if she mentions "shall I see who else is free, or let's plan" is it gentlemanly to say I'd like it if it was just us? Or let me treat you to welcome you back? I don't wanna be a jerk, but yeah I am there to see her, not others? So how do you phrase it firmly but politely? Can u say that?

One small push, suddenly the friendship becomes a flirtationship! So a date in all but name?

[ManOnFire]

If you're a gentleman and a great guy and she's liked you all this time, even as a friend, it's the perfect thing to leap forward to the next thing. I honestly think using 'sexy' will be just fine. And if she DOES feel awkward by it just give a casual funny follow-up line like, "but that's always a good thing."

If you feel like you want to go with words and terms that fit your gentlemanly nature, then do just that. I think I'm imagining the type of Brit you might be now, lol. Go with anything like, "You're such a gorgeous girl," "You've always been a rather hot creature," or "I missed having sexy around." You said her qualities have been what you like to compliment, so you can easily say how you find those things very hot or sexy. I would use 'sexy back' right when you guys meet for the first time in so long: "It's so great to have sexy back now," and give a flirty grin or smile.

She's really got a hot mouth, huh? Lol. I don't know about you but it sure does make me

[ManOnFire]

want a blowjob, lol. She COULD perceive it as sexual, but just like with 'sexy back' you follow it up with: "but that's a good thing." If she likes being fresh with other guys, she will probably love it from you most, since you two know each other pretty well.

You definitely should be intent but polite about wanting to get together with just the two of you. If she suggests other people getting involved, simply say, "I was hoping it could be just us, if that's alright with you?"

[Asker]

Excellent points! Yes I mean I reckon I'm a gentleman hahah. She does admire me/likes me quite a bit I think. There is something there judging from in person and texts. It's a bit sweet/deep shall we say. Pretty sure my energy/drive/funness was part of the reason she hit it off with me at uni. I mean she did keep in touch with me as well afterwards.

Ok, so it's not awkward to go to calling her 'sexy'? Part of the problem was me holding back from overtly calling her hot when she had a boyfriend. But now I guess it's all clear right? So when you say using 'sexy', you mean as a nickname? I mean I tend to use her name, but could say she looks gorgeous upon seeing her, or is you've brought sexy back a better one? Honestly I feel more nervous cos it's a girl I know lol.

Yep, that's me a too nice Brit lol. When exactly do you throw this into conversation so it naturally fits? I definitely missed her for instance.

[Asker]

She has said she missed me, and hope she sees me more often when back.

She has such a cute and hot mouth seriously. I think it's one of my favourite features about her sure. (That banana memory is strong in my mind lol). Yes, pretty much had that fantasy of receiving a blowjob from her and imagine her innocent self to be rather good at it judging from the way she eats. Again though how do you throw it into conversation so it's still gentlemanly and suave? I would LOVE to tell her she has a hot mouth. It is what I feel but have never found a moment to state. If this "permission to speak freely" relationship was established, then I am totally for back and forth sexual talk with her, but we're both innocent people. We do have fun though if the ice can be broken so to speak?

Yes, I also prefer meeting her alone, as it allows me to meet her, without social peers changing the dynamic of the interaction. It's her, not someone she puts on right?

[Asker]

Ok I guess I can state I'd like to treat her to welcome her back yeah? Is that clear enough or can that end up as a group thing? I mean I want to be polite about it, not a jerk, but yes I agree in saying something like "hoping it would just be us", but is it too forward/obvious?

Also if she actually invited me to some form of classmate reunion (given they are in the same city), should I and how would I defer to a solo meet or what do u reckon?

I mean I kinda feel getting her thinking about giving me a blowjob is easier if it's just us!

How do you concretely ensure girls understand it's a 1 to 1 meet and it's polite to stick to that? No last minute guests turning up?

[ManOnFire]

Just continue to be casual, that's the key thing. Once you guys start talking and chatting again, you'll get a feel for where to slip in some fresh, flirty comments. For me, I have a habit of doing it so much I can do it right away with a girl, even if it's the first time I'm meeting her. I'm such a naughty guy, lol.

The trick is to just take it all lightly. Don't think on it too much or worry about it too much. I don't think calling her sexy will put her off at all. She might even like that you're getting fresh with her first, like you're the man who knows how to take the lead or something.

You COULD go to the reunion if she invites you, sure. But you can still arrange for the two of you to get together on your own time some time after, assuming that she's not going to be leaving very soon after the reunion. It would not at all be rude or stern for you to suggest to her that you want some time between you and her. I don't think she would see it as rude at all.

[Asker]

Great point on being casual! Yes I guess they come naturally in the moment when you start talking to her. Lol on you being a naughty guy, yes I think that's great. Tbh, I think sometimes I find it easier to be like that with someone new. I just wish she had been single when I met her and I had a bachelor pad versus my logistics now.

I reckon I am pretty outgoing and a little flirty naturally, so hopefully she likes that already? It's just to transition from purely personal compliments to getting her to realise I think she is hot and I want to see that naughty girl in her? So do you think it's ok to use the word "sexy"? E. g. the sexy back thing, is that the 1st thing to say when seeing her again?

How do you tell her she has a really sexy mouth, because that is something I'd love to communicate and hopefully she wants to show me just what it can do lol? Honestly though she is really cute?

The group thing, it depends I mean I'm just worried about setting a precedent?

[Asker]

I mean not sure I'd get a banana moment in a group thing. Also whether I can spin off a solo meet from that. I mean maybe it's cos I'm more gentlemanly, but I feel like a jerk to have to restate or say that I just want to see you and no one else. I get we're all ex classmates, but tbh I am there to welcome HER back. To welcome sexy back right?

But girls have a way of not understanding anything lol or that you like them? So how do you ensure that no one else can be invited through popping the question so to speak via text?

If you did go to a group meetup can it work? by the way, erm, is it possible to well be intimate with her and still be friends afterwards

Appreciate your thoughts on all this?

[Asker]

What do you think sir?

[ManOnFire]

Funny, I meant to tell you I told a girl I know yesterday how sexy her mouth is, and she laughed about it. See? It'll most likely work for you too.

I would say that you should still use sexy back, but maybe not right when you guys first meet again. It could be later on that day or evening, when you've broken things in some, gotten comfortable after not seeing each other in awhile. That might work best for you. For me, I would probably say it right off the bat, but then I'm just frisky like that, lol.

I think going to a group thing can still work, but if you really want have some private time with her, you need to make that pretty clear. I would opt for a more personal meet with you two, yeah. It allows you to work at your own pace and talk about things alone. I know for me, I prefer privacy with girls myself.

You can definitely still be friends and be intimate. That would not have to ruin anything between you two at all.

[Asker]

Hahah you rock! Kudos on the sexy mouth compliment. How do you actually say it! I really wanna tell her that as I really believe that to be the case. It's just I'm not sure how to suddenly look at her and blurt out those words. How did you phrase it and would it work in my case, cos god I'd love her to think about that and laugh?

Agreed on sexy back. I like it, just wasn't sure how to fit it into convo. I guess I could use it upon greeting or shall I call her stunning/pretty first? If used later on after catching up, how can you say it then? I am fun and flirty (naturally a bit nervous with her), just want to be gentlemanly still.

Yeah, group thing could work. I mean if she invited me to one, should I decline? I agree on preferring personal time with a girl myself as well. It's just how do you phrase the text so it's crystal clear that solo is what you are arranging and want. No last minute invitations to others. Personally I think it is already implied, but you know women, how

[Asker]

do you be clear in a text that you'd like to welcome her back and treat her or see her alone 1 on 1?

Right so you can be intimate yes! I mean given I'm a virgin and she is rather innocent, I'm slightly unsure how to escalate to that in the context of a day catchup with a commute. It's just I do find her very attractive and would absolutely love that. But she is a really great person also so being friends down the line is something important to me as well.

Any chance to experience how sexy her mouth is ;-)?

So I'm wondering how to arrange a 1 to 1 meet and that's normal right to want to see her alone? I get I haven't seen the others either for a bit and she hasn't either. And problem is many of them live in that city, so I'd prefer it solo and that others aren't invited in, so how do you do that without sounding like a jerk? I feel like you see the person when you're alone together. And it gives the room to flirt and be a little sexual?

You're on fire! Thoughts sir?

[Asker]

Look forward to your words man, especially on the mouth thing?

[ManOnFire]

All you need to do is just go for it. Don't worry too much or overthink it. I think you're gonna do just fine, bro.

[Asker]

Haha, but HOW do you actually say it! I really wanna tell her that as I really believe that to be the case. It's just I'm not sure how to suddenly look at her and blurt out those words. How did you phrase it and would it work in my case, cos god I'd love her to think about that and laugh?

Agreed on sexy back. I like it, just wasn't sure how to fit it into convo. I guess I could use it upon greeting or shall I call her stunning/pretty first? If used later on after catching up, how can you say it then? I am fun and flirty (naturally a bit nervous with her), just want to be gentlemanly still.

Yeah, group thing could work. I mean if she invited me to one, should I decline? I agree on preferring personal time with a girl myself as well. It's just how do you phrase the text so it's crystal clear that solo is what you are arranging and want. No last minute invitations to others. Personally I think it is already implied, but you know women,

[Asker]

How to be clear in a text that you'd like to welcome her back and treat her or see her alone 1 on 1?

Right so you can be intimate yes! I mean given I'm a virgin and she is rather innocent, I'm slightly unsure how to escalate to that in the context of a day catchup with a commute. It's just I do find her very attractive and would absolutely love that. But she is a really great person also so being friends down the line is something important to me as well.

Any chance to experience how sexy her mouth is?

So I'm wondering how to arrange a 1 to 1 meet and that's normal right to want to see her alone? I get I haven't seen the others either for a bit and she hasn't either. And problem is many of them live in that city, so I'd prefer it solo and that others aren't invited in, so how do you do that without sounding like a jerk? I feel like you see the person when you're alone together. And it gives the room to flirt and be a little sexual?

[Asker]

I am slightly unsure how to just blurt out I find her mouth sexy, would SHE like that? How did you do it and have her laughing? I mean I seriously love her mouth and would love her to get that?

Thoughts pls, I would appreciate your wisdom?

[ManOnFire]

Just think of it all casually. The right words will present themselves at the right moment. You'll know exactly when to say it and how. I can't exactly give a word-for-word example, cuz I know it can probably be different for everybody, but I'm telling you bro, just go with the flow and it will all work out. Don't think on it or worry about it too much. The words will come.

I want you to tell me how it all goes when you see her.

[Asker]

I sure hope so! I will deffo keep you informed. ManOnFire I wish you could be my personal wingman lol. Or at the very least have an earpiece in my hear and we run this like an operation on a spy movie haha. You can be like "Bro, she loved that, keep it up!"

I do see your point about being you, keep it casual. It's just given I know her and want to build on having always genuinely pointed out and praised her personal character traits, by telling her she is sexy/attractive in a polite way.

Is sexy back still good to use later on, but how, what context can you put it in there?

Can you please suggest how to mention she has a sexy mouth? I mean a girl on here, said something like that sounds too sexual? I would love to tell this girl she has a sexy mouth, but of course don't wanna get slapped or make her uncomfortable? Seriously she has a hot mouth tho! Unless I buy her a banana...

And as for texting her about welcoming her back for a solo dinner? Phrasing?

[Asker]

Thoughts please sir?

[ManOnFire]

You guys haven't got together yet? I was hoping to hear about it.

[Asker]

Hahaha I am hoping too. She's going on holiday before returning. Is it flirty/too friendly to wish her a great time?

And then, I'm asking:

"I do see your point about being you, keep it casual. It's just given I know her and want to build on having always genuinely pointed out and praised her personal character traits, by telling her she is sexy/attractive in a polite way.

Is sexy back still good to use later on, but how, what context can you put it in there?

Can you please suggest how to mention she has a sexy mouth? I mean a girl on here, said something like that sounds too sexual? I would love to tell this girl she has a sexy mouth, but of course don't wanna get slapped or make her uncomfortable? Seriously she has a hot mouth tho! Unless I buy her a banana...

And as for TEXTING HER ABOUT WELCOMING HER BACK for a SOLO dinner? Phrasing?

[ManOnFire]

That's not too flirty at all. Wishing her a good time is a normal well wish for somebody.

Telling her she has a sexy mouth will not be bad. I don't know what girl you talked to and she said it sounds too sexual, but if she was young and inexperienced then of course she would say that. Telling your girl she has a sexy mouth will certainly come across as flirty and naughty - but that's exactly what you WANT it to come off as.

The best way to get it in there would be while you both are talking and you make it a point to say, "God, I love your mouth. I always have. It's so sexy. You just have such perfect lips."

Sexy back can be used in several instances. But if you guys are going bowling you could really use it there. Say she knocks a lot of pins down or throws a whole strike. Give her a high five and say, "Now there's bringing sexy back." She'll love that.

[Asker]

Thanks! Right so wishing her well is all right to do? I mean I'd like to be flirty rather than just friendly, so is it best to do it or not? Then again, I'm a decent guy, so do women like that stuff?

As for the sexy mouth, I'd love to say that. I agree that is how I want to come across. Would I make it awkward if I just said "God I love your mouth, it's so sexy!"? Some guy and girl here said it's about oral sex and too sexual. I mean I personally want her to think those things haha. But I wouldn't want the woman to feel like it's random or uncomfortable. Part of me is just worried how to just say it. Is there a subtle way to do it, rather than saying she has perfect lips lol!

I mean are you saying, just say it whilst eating or talking randomly? She's single now, so it's ok right, but then she's a friend/someone I know who I'm welcoming back...

Omg the bowling example is SUPERB. Yes, ok, any other context to say sexy back?

How do you phrase getting a solo meet by text to treat her?

[ManOnFire]

Of course wishing her well is right to do. It's always a great gesture. I don't know of any woman who WOULDN'T like that.

That is EXACTLY how you want talking about her mouth to come across as, a sly flirty implication of oral sex. Dude, it sounds like the girls and guys you talked to who said saying it is bad must be the really shy, inexperienced types. Don't listen to them. I'M TELLING YOU it will not be bad to make a flirty statement about her mouth, and yes it will work fine while you guys are talking and having lunch, just as long as you're talking. If you were to say it to some random girl you don't know, of course it would be bad, but since you two have known each other she most likely will like it.

Dude, you can use that same sexy back line any time: watchiing her walk up to you, giving you a hug, etc.

Text her: "Wanted to get together one-on-one. What do you say?"

[Asker]

Oh thank goodness, as I did want to wish her! (must admit, slight soft spot for this sweet girl) So that'd be looked upon favourably?

With regards to the mouth thing I totally agree, I WANT her to think about being sexual/oral sex with me. And tbh I really have always digged her mouth. She's really cute, and she has this cute expression. Watching her eat a banana was killing me. Maybe the others' advice is down to inexperience, it's just as someone slightly inexperienced and more a gentleman I want to get it right if I'm going to go the whole hog so to speak.

I really would love to tell her she has a sexy mouth or I missed her smile. It's just say we are talking whilst walking, or talking over lunch, how do I bring it up and say "You have a sexy mouth you know?" or say I was distracted lol? And would she like that and think about it? How do you just carry on from there? ;-)

As for the sexy back thing, seeing her first or later on in what context?

CONT

[Asker]

As for the text, so saying to her you'd like to treat her, would that be a good welcome back text? And is it clear it's 1 on 1. Do I have to state, let's do it, one on one?

If invited by her to a group thing, is it polite/can I actually state the want to get together one on one thing? I'd love to, but feel bad to say it haha?

Really appreciate these words of wisdom ManonFire, your thoughts please?

[Asker]

Look forward to your thoughts!!

[ManOnFire]

I toldja, you can bring it up while you guys are talking/chatting. She'll either be surpised by it or laugh about. It'll work out and you'll know how to go from there, don't overthink it and calculate it so much. TRUST ME.

I showed an example of how to text her asking. That's really the best you can go with. I want to see what happens, man. Get to it already and let me know how it goes, lol.

[Asker]

Haha sorry I've been super busy. She's been excitedly texting back for a bit, texted when she landed here too. I was away on a work trip and got back. I actually texted her, but compared to her usual engaged and expressive self, she did something a bit awkward. Wonder if you can help. Can pm the text if you could advise?

I decided to wait for now.

As for the conversation, I'd love to know if say she was eating a banana/ice cream what I can say (now she's single) in a smooth way given we are friends and I still wanna be so after lol

With the mouth thing i'd love to say it , but how or what are you saying to say?

Thoughts and also can you help with the text/awkward situation?

[ManOnFire]

What did she do that was awkward? Was she uncomfortable about something?

[Asker]

Well she's been texting and texting fairly excitedly as per usual. Like I said, she texted me on landing here, texted me whilst I was abroad.

Now I reconnected, she took a bit longer than usual to reply (compared to instantly to a day at most, it took her 2). But her reply was pretty long.

Then when I responded, she's read it and hasn't responded. I can share the texts if it helps?

I am slightly confused and feeling a bit sad. Man it hurts.

Also the mouth thing, not sure when that comes up in the future.

Would you care to hear the texts (pm)?

[Asker]

They have to be taken in the context by the way of a girl who has mutual admiration, a sweet vibe/affection, very excitable toward me etc and a good rapport

[Asker]

Hey answered your questions you invited me to! And saw a great take of yours.

Can you help me, what do you make of my points above (I responded to you) and care to help on the texts

[ManOnFire]

I invited you to a question I asked? Wow, I didn't even know you were in my circle.

What do the texts say? Let's go from there.

[Asker]

Thanks! I think it's better if I message you. Might be easier if I type on the pc for this one, I'd appreciate some help, is it ok if I send you tmrow morning GMT time? hope you can help me out as we've had a great rapport, sent a text about a month ago.

Awkwardly she didn't reply till just now, despite normally replying instantly or within a few hours at most and always excitedly?

I'll pm you, hope to hear your response asap tomorrow as I'm not sure what to do now she replied?

[Asker]

I'll pm you. Also on here, about that saying the sexy mouth thing to a friend, best way given you know them already? And given you want to still be friends lol?

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

I'm going to be upfront & straight up - this is kind of pointless and stupid. Who cares that some girl is gravitating towards a guy who is kind of self absorbed.

If you wanted to have casual sex and remain friends that needed to happen when you 2 first met... It's a little trickier now but still possible.

But all of that is irrelevant - what you need to be doing if focusing on yourself and trying to meet other women in the process.

"Chasing" is a waste of time, and if a girl isn't going to have sex with you easily she won't. period... and jumping through her hoops is flat out embarrassing & undignified.

If you want to be with her let her know and if she doesn't either accept that and remain friends or walk away... I highly recommend distancing yourself because that is the only way she'll appreciate what you have to offer and more likely than not make her try to win you back.

As much as I hate to say this - dating is game, all of it is game... And it has taken me forever to accept that. Now you need to too.

Girls fall for that bad boy role because it's fun and interesting at first and once their appearance has faded a bit and/or they are tired of it they start looking for providers to take care of them and put up with there stupid bullshit - and usually it some poor smuck "Casanova" guy who thinks he's romancing but really the girl knows he's too much of chump to get other girls.

Everyone is being used or using somebody- nobility is shit and loyalty gets you trampled on.

Now go find better girls to fuck instead of this basic bitch you placed on a pedestal.

And who gives a fuck about what she does on Facebook

***also the reason why I seem angry in my opinion I'm sharing is because you remind me of myself and you are in a situation I have been before and I can tell you that you are wasting your time by putting this much emphasis on this situation (especially by how you are getting caught up with little aspects like Facebook).

[Asker]

Yeah good points. Ok I think you misunderstood, so I'll clarify.
"If you wanted to have casual sex and remain friends that needed to happen when you 2 first met... It's a little trickier now but still possible."

But she had a boyfriend, so I couldn't do that. We were working together, couldn't avoid her and we naturally hit it off. She kept in touch. We met up since and texted (not texting buddy style like guy 2, but occasional deep stuff or catch up or else to arrange a meet up). Now she is single.

"Meeting other women" - I am doing that. But she has become single and moving back here again. So if can flirt/hook up with her, I would like that. Bearing in mind she is someone I'd like to lose my virginity to, given she's cute AND nice.

Who said I was "jumping through hoops"? Read guy 1 descrption - she herself on her own accord tells me she admires me etc.

"distancing yourself" = ok but how in this case? How do you also let her know interest? Trouble is value her as a friend too?

[Asker]

"Dating is a game" - yeah I guess it's true. But what about girls you already know?

"Girls fall for bad boy role" - I guess, but I don't think if she's telling me she admires me and missing me and hopes to see me, that she views me as someone who isn't desirable. If anything, as I described, I'm not some generic "friend" to provide validation. In fact, if it means anything, although we are close, the word friend hasn't come up between us. She knows I am a good person and if anything seems to like that about me. She's always excited to hear about my life (she asks) and makes a point to see me?

"Nobility" - yes some girls do that.

"she does on FB" - so is it just nothing then? If anything guy 2 seems like he is friendzoned. She didn't comment. And tbh the girl seems to hug me closer and has more private moments in group AND solo poses with me?

She seems sweet/innocent. I'm a bit sweet. But can't date atm (logistics). Would like to bang (my virginity), but also be friends forever?

[Asker]

Well?

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

What's changed since I posted my response, what is your relationship/friendship like with this girl at the current moment?

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

- Distance yourself by doing minimum to no contact.

- let her know you're interested by flat out telling her

- remain friends if you both want to, I don't see how this is a question

- What does the girls I know have to do with anything?

- but it does sound like she views you as a generic friend girls love to see how much they can make you like them with little to zero intent of anything happening

- Facebook is meaningless

- are you mistaking being friendly for intimacy?

- you're asking for too much... because you're a virgin you're going to be a rookie at everything when it comes to relationships (not just including sex) that fantasy of losing it and being friends forever is just that - a fantasy. I was in similar situations I don't talk to that girl anymore and I hate/love her. The best you can do is just enjoy yourself if it does end up happening but don't have expectations or you'll just be disappointed.

watch RSD vids on YouTube and continue looking for other people.

[Asker]

Haha nice points. Look firstly I agree on don't get hooked on one person. She is NOT the one by any means. I plan and hope to engage in sexual relations with many women. It's just I'm not a guy who would bang any chick. I want someone who is fit and also has a nice personality. I've had girls throw themselves at me before who I really detested and didn't go for. Sadly some of the nice ones I met, had bf's, so I couldn't do anything. In this case of the girl in question, she is a really nice person. I couldn't avoid her as we were in assigned groups on a masters course. And naturally hit it off etc.

Now it's possible as you say, that this might just be friendliness. She is after all a friendly person. But I have made it a point as you mentioned not to be in constant contact. So with other guys, she might text everyday or fb often. Maybe even meet up in groups. For me, she has kept in touch of her own accord

[Asker]

met her in groups when she visited here (she emigrated for work) whilst she had a boyfriend and once when she was single I met her alone (visiting for a day). Now she's gonna be moving back here, so I figure, given she's single, I can flirt now yes?

Now again, I'm not looking to see her constantly or text her like that. I don't text her often, but when we do converse we have deeper chats (she seems excited to hear from and about me and volunteers info about herself).

I'd like to know how to flirt subtly in person. Who knows if she wants a relationship or perceives me to be that type of guy. I am totally open to casual sex if:
- the girl is attractive to me AND nice
- she is single and so am I

Now given I'm a virgin I'd like the 1st time to be with someone nice and she fits the bill. I find her mouth very hot and despite her innocence am sure she could be a real minx. She is friendly to me, but there is a bit of extra rapport in texting and fun in certain activites in person

[Asker]

How are you coming to the conclusion of her perceiving as a generic friend? See I'd say that guy 2, the fb guy is the friend guy who she's never banged, just posed with in group photos. With me, it's a closer pose solo hand on waist etc.

Now how should I tell her she's hot. I'm not trying for a relationship with her. All I'm' saying is given there aren't that many nice people about, would like to try to maintain a friendship after any sex happens?

But how to have sex in the first place with her? How do you get an innocent sweet girl to want to rip your clothes off and take your first time?

How do you compliment her mouth and physical features and how do you phrase your text when she gets back here to meet her single rather than a group (or is a group meet better)?

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

Whether she had a boyfriend or not you could have always been warm & flirtatious... Because if she is a worthwhile girl she would have done nothing back (either been flirtatious/friendly back or not all or even possibly said you were being to sexual and to stop because she has a be) and remained true/loyal to the guy she was seeing... Best case scenario in that situation is that she would have done a noble move just for you - breakup with her boyfriend before doing anything with you so she didn't do anything wrong, this why I mention you should have done something in the beginning.

- omg dude you are wanting to much, just be grateful to have sex let alone remain friends

- "how to have sex" going on a date would be a good start

- if she rips off her clothes (omg you're still asking for too much) for you she either really likes you or isn't so innocent

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

- "how to compliment her mouth..." WHAT THE FUCK are you talking about? The most important thing, your only goal should be this --- to go on a date with her, just the two of you, go anywhere, hell you could just be at each other's apartments or whatever and just feel the vibe, if you sense that she is into you make a move whether that is saying something, telling her that you like her or just boldly trying to kiss her... Whatever, just try something and stop focusing on the things that don't matter this isn't that complicated just going a date and make it apparent that your attracted to her.

Whatever may be will be.

[Asker]

When she had a boyfriend I WAS warm and flirty. I'm not about breaking people up, that's crossing a line. I simply was in her social circle out of genuinely getting on with her and her choosing to keep in touch. I kept my distance of course whilst still being someone she met and texted etc. Now she has been single for a bit and moving into my country again, what can I do if I can't do a relationship with anyone right now?

- Well yeah I'd love to have sex with her, but she's innocent like me so how do I frame it or get there? What I'm saying is I'm happy to be friends after, not hit and quit her.

- Yeah so HOW do you request that by text (can't call it a date given my logistics atm, it's gonna be seeing her after a long time) so it's not a group thing? Or go to a group thing?

- Well how do you convey sexual attraction and liking her mouth? Already complimented her personality?

- How do you get a 1 to 1 meet?

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

What country are you from and what country is she from?

- what do you mean can't do a relationship right now? If you have feelings for her and she developed feeling for you it wouldn't have matter if she breaks up with that guy to be with you as long as she would have did it before starting something with you

- non issue, stop worrying about something that hasn't happened and may or may not happen

- I don't know man, be creative. I can't hold your hand through this... as long as it just you and her it doesn't matter what you call it - it's technically a date

- unless you have fetish for mouths never mention that again, I think I read in one of the opinions that some goof reference that and I'll tell you right now - that's fucking stupid. You don't need to compliment her you just need to seduce her (watch some RSD videos on YouTube ffs NOW!!!)

- you ask!!! Omg man, sometimes a girl is down to just hangout, sometimes you have to entice her with some sort of event... Just ask!!!

[Asker]

Uk and Uk.

- relationship wise = meaning my logistics have changed, moved out of the big city to my folks out in the middle of nowhere, to help them out (they're ill) and to run my startup from there. I can still meet people, but have to plan and book a train to commute to see people. Or book a hotel (if it's worth it). Also not sure she is up for dating anyone versus being single.

- I know, but I get the impression that women act innocent around great guys they know versus slutty/suggestive. So does that mean it's harder to have sex with them? We're not each others' ones, but she is someone special - nice and cute, someone I'd love to sleep with for my first time. But also someone I wanna know later.

- Yes, that's what I mean, HOW do you phrase by text so it's you and her. How do you avoid it turning into "Shall I see who else can join?" Or "I'm meeting so and so in the morning" and then I book her evening slot, and suddenly someone else turns up?

CONTINUED

[Asker]

- the mouth thing? I love her mouth tho tbh, especially when she ate a long thing one day when with me. But don't you have to get her thinking in a sexual mindset when with you and about you? How can u compliment the mouth, what's wrong with it, would they not like it or laugh? As for RSD, I think I watched those, which ones are they? Again those are about NEW girls not ones you know?

- It's not an event tho except seeing her after ages. But so have other people. So I wanna meet her alone, I'm asking for advice cos I haven't done that before with her except once (where it was luck). So how do you ask where it is socially unacceptable and impossible for her to think it can be anything but just us meeting up and no one else while being polite and not a jerk?

Thoughts

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

You're still overthinking everything, stop it! For your own sake.

- the difficulty of having sex varies from person to person. It really depends if she wants to with you and how much she finds you attractive... And if you have the skill to seduce.

- I don't know, try and invite her on a diner date or invite her overall... And usually people ask if someone else can come along be bold and say "no, I want it to just be me and you" but that's overthinking - main goal is to just meet up with her - watch the fucking RSD videos, they'll teach you about different aspects of seduction!!!

- the mouth thing sounds like a fetish, it's not a problem just learn how to be charming, next time you make her smile or laugh (a very genuine smile) tell that she has a beautiful smile. Why is that so hard to think of? Come on man.

- You need to stop worrying about being polite and actually just go with it - make it happen, don't think about it just do it. This isn't that hard, it's just people.

[Asker]

Ok:

- Ok but how do I know if she wants sex with me? I already know her, so how to seduce as you say? And detect a "dtf

- the videos as I said are about NEW women, not ones you know.

- Yes I agree on the idea of inviting her or treating her to dinner. But I am asking yet again HOW do you word it. Give me an example of a text which is crystal clear it's just the two of you

- I think men get it and don't invite people, but some women are crazy and start mentioning. Is it polite to say no, just us, is there a suave way to say that?

- But can you say that to someone you already know? The trouble is beautiful smile is it not sexual enough compared to sexy mouth? Some of the videos mentioned conveying being a sexual man? Give me the context of when you can blurt out she has a beautiful smile else isn't it random/awkward?

- Yeah I guess, but should I decline a group reunion invite?

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

Argh sigh

- I don't know guy, you are the one who knows her stop asking theoretical questions and stop getting lost in hypotheticals. I'm going to say this again the only thing that matters is getting a date - everything else doesn't matter, take it as it comes. Focus on one goal accomplish that and move on to the next.

- watch the seminar videos, there's lots of vids that touch on all aspects of relationship and casual encounters

- are you fucking kidding me dude? "Hey I was wondering if you are free this weekend" or "I'm going to _____ on Saturday and was wondering if you'd like to come along" and "what are you doing today? Do want to do something fun"... And so on.

- don't do something you don't want to do... I had a girl bring a 3rd wheel at last minute and I backed out but she called me and convinced me to come along- it was a complete waste of time, I should of stayed true to my word and refused to go... do the same if your date turns in to a group thing.

[WhateverMayBeWillBe]

- You can say whatever you want as long as you have confidence and don't care about the response. And fuck you! You are asking too much, were you bullied growing up? I can't hold your hand through this, stop being a little bitch, Set a date, make a move, live with the choices you made.

- Why decline the group reunion? just because you two are hanging out in a group setting doesn't mean you two can't leave and go somewhere else.

Watch like 10 or more RSD seminar videos!!!

[Asker]

I don't have the same experience as you as there weren't many girls at my school and fewer at university who were either single or people I'd want to date or bang. I'm not into banging any attention seeking bitchy girl (despite offers) just for the sake of having some prize of who banged the most chicks. I'm about quality.

- I agree on the goal of having a date (even if it's not called that). My question is simply how to ask for that. Sadly girls these days don't appear to have been brought up with social etiquette which I think is obvious/polite. E. g. if you talk about getting together, they shouldn't be asking shall I see who else can make it. Why would I say let's meet? So I'm asking since I'm not used to having to ask multiple questions, what is a crystal clear way so the girl understand inviting others is not an option and she should meet them separately? I am there to meet her, NOT them

- Watched some, they're good, but new women not friends/acquaintainces

CONT

[Asker]

- If you had read my points, you would know she's not here atm, she's coming back here soon permanently having emigrated the last few years. So given this special circumstance of welcoming her home, what can i ask (by text)?

- Also I don't live in the same city, so I need to plan. I don't think asking her "wanna do something fun" as you suggested is going to lead to a 1 on 1 meet up. More likely to lead to a group chat leading to other girls and guy's constantly changing their mind on times, and our original meeting getting sidetracked.

- How do you politely (without being a dick given she's a friend) say you want to just see her? Or better yet, not have the issue come up by having a clear question you pose in the first place about meeting/treating her to a meal or day out?

- How can u back out tho if she say brings someone last minute (she met in the morning) or says mind if so and so joins? Then it seems like you were gonna flake?

CONT

[Asker]

- The point is HOW to set a date, not the question of if.

- Worried if I attend a group reunion as the first time I see her after she's been away, that it sets a bad precedent of meeting in a group. She and many other girls sometimes can't get it into their thick skull that I am there to see them, not others of which I am maybe friends with only 2 out of the 8 people present. Last time I stuck to my guns and a time and lucked out meeting her alone (at which point I found out she was single, maybe that's why in the past she had a boyfriend she met me in a group). I mean how do you tell them, you wanna catch up with them and not be a dick? Even though it's them being rude and socially awkward to suggest it?

- E. g. if she was meeting others that day, how do you meet separately?

- I am not sure on going your own way with her later. More likely that at least 1 other person joins you for the after meeting, which is back to square one is it not?

Thoughts

[Asker]

Didn't read. Anything.

Read and anything?

[HandsomeRaj]

Ah I like your questions / takes - one of my fav subjects <3 Am not going anon this time lol. My answers are seldom by the book but based on my understanding and experience that are most times to the point correct ;)

I happen to be a toxic mix of both guy 1 & 2 just cause I realized this what you've written long ago lol and yes that's my nature to keep evolving.

1. Guy 1 may well show courtesy, kindness and yes stability but Guy 2 shows rambunctiousness and freedom which translates to excitement - something that almost every girl craves for
2. He displays lack of fear for rules of society that again symbolizes freedom and thus her sub-conscience perceives it as someone that will maintain that excitement and will protect her against all odds / vagaries of social norms
3. Guy 2 displays impulsiveness thus again a show of sense of freedom
4. They appear less good because this Guy 2 himself doesn't bother much about society and what they think thus he tends to open up even if subconsciously, her wilderness (EVERY girl I've been with has opened up multiple times over than she ever was or even realized herself she could be so) and desire to be wild & free
5. Guy 2 generally is what he is (there are tons of flip sides to such guys that are this way in a natural unevolved way - explains the ruined relationships & broken girls in the long run) while Guy 1 may be a put on just to impress her (genuine intentions too maybe) where the phrase 'man in prosperity shows himself as he wishes to be seen and in adversity as he is' may hold true. In Guy 2 somewhere she expects pit falls and considers it better than situations with Guy 1 where everything seems hunky dory but later turns out to be something else
6. There is no thumb rule about who she'd bang but yes chances are Guy 2 stands a better chance thanks to his upfront and yet seemingly crude approach

[Asker]

Thanks, I'm glad you like them, I also enjoy your analysis which is really good. I think you have a point about being a mix of guy 1 and guy 2, good idea. Tho I reckon you lean toward guy 1 if you want success. Pls note, when you read the descriptions of each, neither is a stereotypical nice guy/bad boy. Tbh guy 1 is more of a carey grant like character. Guy 2 is more of a rowdy with some interests (so not just a pure player). But I'd argue guy 1 has more going for him. I think a quick refresh on their personalities might help answer this question. I'll clarify and respond to your points:

1. I see your point, but pls note that she has stated to guy 1 about admiring his qualities. She also met BOTH guys when she already had a boyfriend (guy 1 first). Guy 1 represented excitement and she kept in touch with him partly cos of that as well as him being a genuinely nice person. He is exciting, driven, energetic and courteous. He's not a rowdy like guy 2. So explain?

[Asker]

2. E. g. Guy 1 is more private in his flirtations with her. Guy 2 has her posing in a group, so is she just mirroring her surroundings and being more suggestive in the moment with him, but actually just friends? With guy 2, she'll text him often in short bursts, like friends do. Guy 1, she doesn't text with everyday, but when they do text, there is passion/a connection and it's deep? She tells guy 1 a lot about how she admires him and how he's doing well she thinks a lot of him?
3. Explain though liking guy 2's impulsiveness given how I've described their actions in the question? So explain her reaction to guy 2's fb post pls?
4. I get girls like to be wild. But surely with the right guy who makes them feel special. Guy 1 makes her feel special, so explain the being suggestive in other situations, and maybe more innocent round him? This is not to say that she isn't sometimes very fun with him. There are moments. Most of their contact has been when she was taken, but now she's single?

[Asker]

4 cont. How would she perceive guy 1 now she is single and how should he act/flirt?
5. I see your point, guy 2 is who he is, the girls know that from his fb posts etc. But then is that what she wants? And when you say guy 1 is putting it on, no no. She definitely knows how he is genuine and someone who is caring etc. He is also a fun guy. He isn't rowdy like guy 2, guy 1 is more of a carey grant. A smooth gentleman so to speak. So explain how she would perceive them sexually and how she would act around them? Could she consider guy 1 as a sexual prospect?
6. Understood. Say guy 1 sees her as someone he would love to be intimate with (his 1st time even). He also sees her as someone he could be friends forever with later in his life? What to do? Could she be his special 1st? Would she want to be intimate with him and be friends forever later? Is guy 2 really a sexual prospect? They haven't banged and soon she's emigrating for work reasons away from him? He's part of her hobby club?

[HandsomeRaj]

1a. What says that Guy2 is any less better or less caring or exciting than Guy1 because he's a rowdy guy? Now YOU define 'rowdy' (I'm often described as one by those that don't know me or my style of functioning) :)

2a. Guy2 represents excitment of competition with the other girls around, it keeps her alive competing subconsciously. Guy1 probably winds up being a layover sort, where she texts him when she needs a bank for her emotional river.

3a. She 'likes' it cause it shows masculinity, confidence - again the excitement and at times the subconscience competitiveness pops up

4a, 5a, 6a. There's no thumb rule here. To each his/her own

I really don't think we should discuss this any further lest it turns into a thesis lol

[Asker]

1. a. Guy 1 demonstrates more caring qualities constantly and is a suave gentleman. Guy 2's fb alone shows what type of character they are? There's not the same gentle dynamic. Guy 1 is also exciting as I explained, just in different ways (through experiences with her and in certain activites as well as his flirty jokes etc). Guy 2 is just in your face, compared to subtle smooth words of guy 1?

2. a) That's an interesting point. Now see I wouldn't take her for that kinda girl, but maybe some women do that emotional validation thing. Bit perverse. But I don't think you quite understand. With guy 2, the texting is more on a friend basis of talking about either group meets, or else about the hobby club that she is part of. It's not romantic or personally flirty as such. The fb posts, sure I guess, but is there competition, just seems to be posing for photos and labelling them as hotties? No actual concrete hooking up for her to compete with? So should guy 1 tell people to pose like that?

[Asker]

2. b) With guy 1, she texts and generally gets excited. Sure she loves his compliments which are personal rather than physical (guy 2). But she also feels some connection and shares her life with him. The point is they are in touch less often, but when they are, it's much much deeper and a greater rapport than what she does with guy 2 (primarily day to day convo). She also tells guy 1 about admiring him and hoping to meet up with him more when she moves closer to him soon?

3. a) Explain pls? So you're saying that posting multiple fb pics with women with captions of being with hotties suggests preselection? In this case, she posed with him and four other girls and he had captioned it "likedaboss". She clicked like on fb. But unlike the other girls didn't comment on it?

3. b) With guy 1 she poses much closer with her arm round waist and vice versa? More private pics not on fb?

4. Could guy 1 be something more now she is single (sex or relationship and life friend afterward)?

[Asker]

Would appreciate your ideas on these points I have made. Hopefully my clarifications help?

[Asker]

Thoughts

[Asker]

Dude?

[Asker]

Wtf, thoughts?

[Asker]

Seriously useless

[Alex88F]

this is what happened to me. so hear this

she basically ditched the good all around guy when she admitted she was seeing another dude (the douche) and when the good guy reacted WHEN we were supposed to date as "well, you might as well go with him and date - im just a number to you"... hell broke loose
She went straight into the arms of the douche. now she's with another dude and she's STILL talking with this one she fucked to break up with his boyfriend

Leave this shit aside ASAP she's a player. No sane woman will tell you she's baning some other male unless she's a slut. Point, there's no - "im a confident strong indipendent woman" here - there's no respect for me for this mentality when a male is just a disposable good. Why should i give respect to a woman or to anyone if im not respected.

Is like saying to a girl you like "oh and meanwhile we are texting, there's this hot slut who's giving me head. you dont mind it, dont you?"
if i do it and im a male im a SLUT. if im a woman and im doing it im a SLUT nevertheless

[Asker]

I LOVE that last point about the slut. Actually that is kinda hot if that were happening (and the girl you're texting is a flaker, fuck that would teach her a lesson).

I hear your theory, but can u help me out with the specific girl above? The circumstances of meeting are in point 1.

Can u answer each of the points 2-4? Basically in point 2, I'm looking for how she perceives each guy (who is described above) and whose boyfriend material or sexual material?

And 3 and 4?

[Alex88F]

2. in my experience - it does depends on your level of attraction. if you flirt like "hey im really into you but i dont have other choices"kind of vibe, the guy who doesn't try that much is still more confidente than you are. It depends on your vibe. If she feels that you have other stuff in your hands (IE othe girls) she may act more aggressive
Guy 2 is basically the "check out my pecs" bro that makes most of the sluts hot and craving. Why? cose he can get plenty. Guy 1 is boring. He can have it when she snaps her fingers.

[Alex88F]

3. She texts guy 2 more often with general jokes and also friend stuff. Guy 1 less often, but more in depth and longer text convos. Closeness/sweet in them.
^^ you shouldn't do that. that's boy friend material, not boy which may turn out as bopyfriend material. Go out with her, talk and try to have sex. Rinse, rise, repeat until she ask you to be her boyfriend. Dont text her too much, just to reply of to ask for a date man. How do i know it works? exactly. experience.

[Alex88F]

As for posing, maybe more innocent around guy 1, more party like when in groups with guy 2?
^^because she KNOWS that Guy 2, albeith more attractive and desiderable, is just a musclehead bro. She may go for the fucking for him but he's basically a manwhore. And... "who goes with the cripple, learns to sway" (an old saying). Girls fall for jerks cos jerks have confiance and an abundance mentality - you have to make that works like a charm. See below.

[Alex88F]

4. Explain her behavior and who she would bang, stay life friends with and do BOTH (casual sex and then still friends)?
it really depends on HOW you project yourself. You can steal her from him if you copy some but not all his manners. Mind that, no man with a decent confidence would put his pecs on facebook. That' selling yourself on the streetwalk asking for validation.
How can you do it like him but not as blantant and stupid like him? GO OUT with your buddies, and take pictures with girls you go out with. Why? because she will think you have CHOICES, and therefore she's not so special.

[Alex88F]

sorry for the bad typing. if i can suggest you something else, let me know.
make a turnaround with your behaviour man. Let her be free to choose, cos if you try to nail her down you're gonna lose her. I know that well. I did it and it still stings like a bitch

[Asker]

Hi and thanks! Let me respond to your points, I like your thoughts, but may need to clarify, the descriptions of each specific guy are above by the way.

2. Firstly, how would she know that? And how are you judging guy 2 to be a "bro" and guy 1 to be "boring". in my opinion the descriptions above show each guy to have different qualities to what you suggest and their own merits and cons? Pls reassess. So guy 1 is a carey grant and guy 2 more a jock. But can u explain using the correct descriptions of them as detailed above as to why she reacts to one guy (2) on fb to that post and how she perceives each?

3. Yeah I guess, but what you're suggesting sounds like what u do with a NEW girl. As mentioned in point 1, this is someone you met earlier in life. She has met BOTH guy 1 and guy 2 when she was in a relationship. And now she has been single for about 6months. Guy 1 isn't in the neighbourhood so to speak, might be later when she moves etc. So explain her texting habits based on this for each guy?

[Asker]

The posing, ok I think this is in point 2, let's call it point 2 again. Right so why would she say put her arm round guy 1's waist and let him do suit and gets close to him, genuinely happy. With guy 2, she poses either hand on shoulder and is friends. Also does the pose with 3/4 other women with his caption on fb of "likedaboss" and she "likes" it on fb? He's also in a social circle by the way. Explain? He does post a hella lot of pictures with memes like "fitness" etc. But tbh is he just in the friend zone? Hasn't slept with him?

4. Look to be clear she is not "with" either. And has not boyfriend. So no one (certainly not guy 1) is trying to steal her from anyone. And as for guy 1, pls pls read the description above. You sound like you're describing some total backward guy who has never spoken to anyone. This is clearly not like that. Pls see guy 1's description? I do agree that guy 2 does appear a bit like a validation seeker (almost like a girl lol). Why does guy 1 have to show off pics?

[Asker]

5. No problem about the typing, you do seem like you know some stuff! So would appreciate if you could reassess based on my clarifications. Mostly if you just skim read the description of each guy (who aren't some stereotypical alpha's and beta's. If anything the girl seems to compliment guy 1 more in text and person.) Right so if you could answer my points, would like to hear some good analysis?

[Asker]

Pls help

[Alex88F]

she can be attraccted to both it all just depends on what she wants really and how they show up. which means, you can be sweet as fuck with her but if she wants just your D, you're wasting time. She would probably driven to the player cos she's in that mood "sex with no strings attached"kind of thing.
On the other hand
((Guy 1 AND Guy 2 are technically both friends of the girl. )) it doestn matter
((Guy 1 and the girl text less often, but often much deeper and exciting. She shares a lot with him)) she would react as you're a Brother as for guy 1 and as a potential lover for the 2
((Guy 2 and the girl might text more often, but short bursts and friend stuff))
cos he wants to het in her pants, pronto. And she knows that, so she flirts with him more than Guy 1
((Guy 1 and her have met up before and she's going to be based closer to him soon. He wonders how to act? )) < try to get distant from her. i'll explain you why in short

[Alex88F]

if you're Guy 1, let her be. She knows a lot about you and vice versa, that's counter intuitive but she can understand how far you can get. If she snaps your finger you're there, cos you're the typical nice guy. Which is not a bad thing, you're gentle but that's not a potential lover vibs. Guy 2 is the vibrator, Guy 1 is the teddy bear. If you want her you should steal from Guy 2 his tactics, be more straight forward - She will appreciate that or just think you got out of your mind. Or both. From my experience, if you're Guy 1 you'll end up with blue balls if you dont understand how she thinks. Which is "We have a lot in common but i dont know. I dont know if we can be a couple at all. He doesn't seem to have the confidence Guy 2 has" < Man, it's all about how you show up. You can't analyze this shit over and over, you got to ACT. fake it until you make it

[Alex88F]

if u keep on being Guy 1 all in all she would be a friend with you and bang the other guy. That's easy. Unless of course you step out of your own confort zone and be straight about it and ask her out. Maybe she is just waiting for you to do the move and meanwhile she's testing the waters with the other dude in case you dont man up. That's pretty common sense. So, hear this - if you're Guy 1, learn from Guy 2. Dont text her often and unless she answers to you with a YES for a date, stop text her. Until she reach out, then ask her again. If she ain't willing, let her go and forget her cos at that point Guy 2 has won. I know it form my personal experience dude

[Asker]

I like your points, but I feel a bit confused as you suggest two different approaches lol! Maybe you can clarify for me?

1. Ok so I get you say she can be attracted to both depending on what she wants. I think you misunderstand who each guy is though. Guy 1 is like a carey grant. Guy 2 is like a rowdy boy. So how is guy 1 not an option, given he is smooth, more subtle and suave?

2. Like I told you Guy 1 and Guy 2 are friends who met her when she had a boyfriend. In fact guy 1 has never had the friend word used on him. Now she is single, how does she perceive each? Like I said, guy 1 does not just act like a bro. In fact, guy 2 has had the word bro etc used on him. Guy 1 only his name and the occasional flirty nickname?

3. I'm not I get it. If guy 2 and the girl text often in a friend manner, isn't he just a texting buddy, not as you say getting in her pants? Guy 1 acts more distant and texts to catch up or respond, and they have a deeper convo where she is excited to hear about/from him?

[Asker]

4. Ok so she's going to be living near guy 1 (me) very soon. Now to be clear she has never banged guy 2. So how exactly have I lost out or not done right? I'm just who I am. I guess he is who he is, unless he was trying to act cool for her. But it doesn't seem to have resulted in a bang for him? Can you explain her reaction to his fb post, the "likedaboss" picture with him, her and 3 other girls and she "liked" it on fb? With guy 1, she puts her arm round his waist and vice versa. Their relationship is less social media and more in person or phone?

5. Yeah guy 1 lets her be. But I disagree he's the typical nice guy. If that's the case, she wouldn't have kept in touch as they're by the dozen. I'd argue he's more unique than that. And more unique than guy 2. Guy 2 if anything seems in the friend zone? Tho she acts suggestively in a group for him? With guy 1, might be teddy bear, or also the guy she secretly fantasizes about as a lover or boyfriend, but also who she is a deeper friend with?

[Asker]

6. I think you misunderstand. Pls see where I said that guy 1 is CONFIDENT. That is one of the things she loved about him and why they hit it off and she kept in touch. Guy 2 is not skilled in the art of talking as him. Guy 2 is just more brash. But ultimately she hasn't gone for that? Like I said, she won't even be living anywhere near him soon. So I guess they're just gonna be fb buddies?
7. Ok so guy 1 should go to a group meet;reunion with her? Or just hold out for 1 to 1? Now she's single, how should he act and how is he perceived?

Thoughts?

[Asker]

Anything (pls see my clarifications)

[Asker]

Well?

[Alex88F]

About the posing question well, how woulds i know if they slept toghter? that's not the point. you shouldn't care about it cos chances may be she may have done it already like other of this guy girl friends or may be not. Who cares? you shouldn't. you should pose with other cute girls because an unspoken rule of attraction is - if you got more females around guess what? more females will come around. That's the way she should react.

[Alex88F]

4. i read that but the point is another - wheater you're not the type who copy the Guy 2 about posting pictures, you should show off. That's a manly thing. not in a bro-dude all muscles and no brain, but rather with your own style. Which means maybe a little bit more classy rather than hulk-alike posing and shit.

[Alex88F]

How she should react? If she's into you and you change the point about showing off, maybe she will start pursuing you. But my advice is, try to pull back a bit. Be more direct and say you want her but not as a friend or whatever, be clear and specific. Set a date and impress her with you being you, not someone else, if you get what im saying.

5. i did it - hope it helps!

[Alex88F]

ah and on point 3 again - it doesn't matter. it doesn't matter if you're more close to her, you're not into her physically speaking. you can open up and talk about deep topics but that's not a good thing, especially if you didn't had sex. it makes you feel daddy material rather than hookup materila like guy 2. thats why you should change your behaviour a bit

[Asker]

Hi, thanks, let me clarify and hope to hear your thoughts. I hope you saw my points 1 and 2 that this is not some other nice guy and bad boy. This is about the specific charming guy 1 and slightly out there guy 2 in the question?

3. Ok as for her and guy 2, they did NOT sleep together, of that I'm pretty sure. From what I gather, he is a bit like that, and on that fb picture, she liked it but didn't comment unlike other girls. Also there's pretty much just a few of her involved compared to him with many others. They are in the same hobby club so naturally at group socials, they might be in the same picture. So is her reaction to him through fb and texting often but mainly about friend stuff cos they are just that - friends?

4. Ok, so firstly I agree, I mean he's no hulk lol. But I don't do that really. When she poses with me, she hugs me close, arm round each other's waist. That good? And we interact less so over social media than via private texting. She seems very excited to text

[Asker]

4. cont. and meet me. In fact she is moving closer to me for work again and mentioned it. In fact she seemed happy that we'd see each other a lot more often? When you say I have to show off, explain? She already seems to admire me, so what am I supposed to do? Start posing with women saying look who is the boss?

5. You did what sorry, pls clarify? I was asking about guy 1 (me) being more unique and her liking me for who I am. Yes she is innocent but we also have fun at specific moments and activities. Is it possible she likes me? She is single now unlike when I first met her so what should I do?

6. Worried though that can't be friends if we did become intimate? How also do you meet her alone versus in a group of friends? Or should I accept a group reunion invite given she hasn't seen everyone for so long? What type of solo activities to do? And how to make it a low pressure date (i. e. not calling it that)?

[Alex88F]

yep i understood is not about a bad boy vs nice guy. im saying there are two types of boys here, im
reasonating for my experience.

3. you can be sure they didn't sleep togheter already. and you can't be sure they're just friends dude.
you're overthinking things here, stop worrying so much about it.

4. it's good that she touches you, yeah if she seems more than excited to hear from you, chances are
she already want you more. keep doing that. And yes, starts trying to look more boss than you are
if you get what im saying. Pictures man, try to not care about what the other guy do and do your own
thing. Like, a picture of you working on what you love or whatever, that is attractive.

[Alex88F]

5. it is very possible she likes you, at this point.
Ask her out. Fix a define date, go take her and charm her pants off.

6. Well, you shouldn't worry but if she rejects you and want you to be just a friend after sex
just walk away and never contact her again. That's disrespectful to yourself.

"How also do you meet her alone versus in a group of friends?" ask her out.
"Or should I accept a group reunion invite given she hasn't seen everyone for so long?"
no group dates until you and her are togheter dude. otherwise is just like saying to her
hey im down to being your friend! and that's BS

[Alex88F]

"What type of solo activities to do?"
go out where both of you can have fun, dude.
"And how to make it a low pressure date (i. e. not calling it that)?"
say something among the line of, hey i got this weekend free wanna catch up?
sex may or may not happen. it will if you are confortable enough being youself.
i would try that if i was in you

god knows how i wanted to do all this by myself. i didn't and i lost the girl.
beware man!

[Asker]

Great glad you understand. You seem to know some stuff, just wanted to make sure, sadly a lot of girls here were posting stuff without getting it. Appreciate your insight.

3. Hahah I guess so. I mean she's probably not the type of girl to do it. She's had 1 boyfriend in her life. I think most of her interactions with this guy is in her hobby club socials. She's hanging out with him amongst many other guys and girls at the same time. It seems like this guy is a bit of a tool and most girls seem to acknowledge it. I mean she liked the picture, but didn't comment. Almost seems tbh like he is "friend zoned" so to speak as there's no concrete 1 on 1 stuff and it seems like it's just friend banter than anything deeper or sexual.

4. That's good yes? I mean I haven't had many interactions with her since she became single. She was visiting here for a day when I found out and I was alone with her. Touching was mainly hug and photo posing etc. Around the waist. As for...

[Alex88F]

3 just leave it as it is
4 the more she touches you, the more she wants you. that's a sign of attraction

[Asker]

cont... her being excited to hear from me, yeah that's good right? So unlike guy 2, the girl and I don't text everyday. But when she texts me, or when I text her, she seems really happy to hear from me or about my life. She tells me details without me even asking stuff? And she does seem to convey some sense of excitement (at least that's what I feel). She's always made it a point to meet up with me, so she must like me in some way right? Now she's been single around a year and moving back to my country for work, I hope I can build on that? I mean she's not the one, but I do care about her and kinda like her (always found her cute, but how to tell)?

How exactly am I meant to show off hahah? I mean I convey what i've done when responding to her questions in person or text, and she likes the scenery on a trip i show her etc. I'm not really a "hey look at my biceps guy" even tho I do go to the gym lol?

[Asker]

5. Ok. Hahah I like the "charm her pants off". Trouble is before most meets were group (she was taken). So should I accept say a group invite since she hasn't seen everyone here for ages? Or just press for solo? Can u have a date without calling it that to ease the pressure? Trouble is my logistics are not as good as before when i had a bachelor pad. Now it might be harder for me to date, but I can do occasional meets, planned days out etc. What to ask her so she knows it's 1 on 1?

6. Tbh I'm ok with being friends after sex. I am a virgin and would love to spend that first time with someone cute AND nice like her. I value her. But I dunno about a relationship in my life at this point, nor whether she wants one. She's not the one. But I can see being great friends afterward in life. How to convey? Also how to even tell her I found her attractive the whole time now she is single?

7. Oh I agree. I mean I don't mind group things, but part of the problem is others changing times, so flaky

[Asker]

But how do you essentially nail down a time with her so no one else gets invited? You know how sneaky girls are. I'm a bit inexperienced and want to make sure my language by text is crystal clear that I am looking forward to hanging out with her and ONLY her? E. g. treating her to a meal or hey let's the two of us hang out?

Thoughts>

[Alex88F]

5. if it's a meeting of ex classmates i would go regardless.
but yeah, press for a solo date
Nah, you can call it a date or you call it a date. :) if i would be you, id try to ask her when she's
free for something informal, like for drinking togheter. then wait one week and ask her again when
she's free - at this point, if she says oh im so and so, you take one day, decide where to met and
the time. You go take her and so forth

6. just put it straight with her - "i like you. i like your (original compliment, you're beutiful is
just cheap). I want to get to know you better than friends does" See what happens. Man, dont bullshit
me with the whole, we can be friends after sex... its a lie. You want her and that's it. Otherwise
you woulndt even put Guy 2 here in the picture

7. if flakyness is the problem, again, try to set a definite date.

But how do you essentially nail down a time with her so no one else gets invited?
see above

[Alex88F]

dont have a meal, meal are for friends. have a dinner togheter, or just ask her out to be you and her
alone time. No cockblockers or female friends around.

[Asker]

Interesting points. Trouble is women can be really flaky or indecisive on times. When you have to commute, it makes life harder then. So:

5. Yeah she might try and arrange that meeting of ex classmates. Trouble is they live in a central location so she might try and "kill two birds with one stone"? If you can't make that, how do you ensure your meet doesn't result in another reunion? I get what you mean about asking when she's free. by the way she doesn't drink so ideas? What activity (city based) or food thing can u do that's more intimate?

6. Ok, but without losing her friendship? I mean having sex, even dating briefly (I can't do it long term as I don't live there atm and have a busier work life than when I first met her when she was taken) would be so good. But I don't want to lose her afterward? I would like to lose my virgnity to her. How do you ask her though so it's a SOLO meet? And she gets that and doesn't invite others or flake on times? Cos if u have to book somewhere?

[Asker]

7. When I said meal, last time I met her solo for dinner (found out she was single then) when she was here for one day only (she met other people in the afternoon). But if you want to max the time with her given commuting, is anything wrong with an earlier time? Isn't a meal at lunch ok? Gives you more time to flirt right?

[Alex88F]

again you're overthinking. i strongly suggest you to read Corey Wayne's "How to be a 3% man" im quoting him a lot here and there you know, cos most of the principles he teaches are right on the spot. You can see his videos on youtube, he can be more esaustive than me in this things - i still wish i found him before fucking everything up with this attractive girl i was into. Get the fucking book from his site, it's free. It's not even that long. You can find most of the answers there, and i can assure you... it works

[Asker]

Hi I've seen his stuff. It's good yeah, but mainly general stuff about acting with NEW women, not ones you know who had a boyfriend and became single. Also it mainly talks about other ppl's stuff. I would prefer YOUR views lol.

Would still like to hear your thoughts on the points we were discussing? It took me time to respond to each lol?

[Alex88F]

to my own point of view you should A) read his book B) avoid getting out with her if and only if there are possible other guys trying to seduce her C) ask her out on a date, but... test drive before you buy it man, ask her to get out and drink alone. See how she reacts. All the rest you're writing is overthinking about this stuff.

[Asker]

Dude I would appreciate if you just read my points which it took me time to reply with. If you had, you would have read that she doesn't drink lol. Like I said, I have read his books. They don't help this type of situation, only meeting new women. The question here is how to act/woo a girl you already know who has become single without making it too awkward.

I will paste the important points again, lest we get back to generic advice instead of specifics.

[Asker]

"Interesting points. Trouble is women can be really flaky or indecisive on times. When you have to commute, it makes life harder then. So:

5. Yeah she might try and arrange that meeting of ex classmates. Trouble is they live in a central location so she might try and "kill two birds with one stone"? If you can't make that, how do you ensure your meet doesn't result in another reunion? I get what you mean about asking when she's free. by the way she doesn't drink so ideas? What activity (city based) or food thing can u do that's more intimate?

6. Ok, but without losing her friendship? I mean having sex, even dating briefly (I can't do it long term as I don't live there atm and have a busier work life than when I first met her when she was taken) would be so good. But I don't want to lose her afterward? I would like to lose my virgnity to her. How do you ask her though so it's a SOLO meet? And she gets that and doesn't invite others or flake on times? Cos if u have to book somewhere?"

[Asker]

"7. When I said meal, last time I met her solo for dinner (found out she was single then) when she was here for one day only (she met other people in the afternoon). But if you want to max the time with her given commuting, is anything wrong with an earlier time? Isn't a meal at lunch ok? Gives you more time to flirt right?"

Please answer this, it is a SPECIFIC question, not something corey can help with, I've already read his stuff, doesn't help.

[Alex88F]

5. it is not your concern. you can go either go with the plan and have a lunch/dinner with his ex classmates AND then ask when she's free to met just with you. What about sushi? what about mexican food? what about going to the pool togheter or having fun somewhere where you can see her reactions? That's important. If she's touching you, twirling her hair or biting is lips, touching you more than usual and looking with no reason and smile, you're in dude. She wants you.

6. you would end up attached to her EVEN if you say it's different. you're full of expectations otherwise you wouldn't ask such specific questions If you dont risk on risking to lose her you will eventually lose her to some other dude. Ask her out, easy and simple. If you're indecisive she might think you're not as interested and ditch you , think about it.

[Alex88F]

A define date is when you say this place, this time, but yes, if you cann book the place. So this way she will reduce the chances to flake.
"7. Nah man you have to leave her wonder about you. Which means, it's easy for what you said to grasps that you said about your life a lot to her - so less time togheter is better. And let her talk. Dinner is better for two reasons 1) its intimate 2) it has a different feeling - different than being a normal friend. It leaves her wondering "what about something else with this guy?"

[Alex88F]

So you read Corey and this stuff doesn't work? i higly doubt about it but whatever. have you ever considered the fact she may just be interested in your attention? That's a red flag. How many times she writes to you or call you?

[Asker]

Thank you. Right so:
5. Ok, it's just does it set a precedent to meet in a group if that's the first interaction? Or is it good which can help with meeting solo later? Cos otherwise a later meet could result in "let's see who else is free" etc? How do you avoid that? As for the pool we live in a cold country, haven't done that sadly. What about bowls, mini golf, or skating? And dinner or lunch? Yeah how do you get the touch tho if she's a friend? She has pruned her hair and bit her lips, but how do I know for sure? She even asked me to show her how to skate and how she looked in a picture?

6. I am decisive, but sadly she changes her mind on times a lot or can't decide on a place to eat. Lol. So how do you definitely set up a meet where no one else is open to be invited and she is turned on about the prospect. Attachment I meant if we had sex or dated, I don't want the aftermath to be we never talk like with her and her current ex. I want it to be a thing that makes us closer friends

[Asker]

7. So saying I booked a place is good yes? In that case, she can't really invite anyone last minute either right? Yes I do let her wonder. I don't text her everyday more like a month or so apart. She seems excited to hear about my life and shares details to me before I even ask. Yeah I had dinner with her last time and that's a good idea. Lunch I guess is ok, given i have to commute and it gives you more time in the day. Yes any other suggestions? I agree on wanting intimacy?

8. Yeah read it. It's good with talking to new women, so you're just direct. But you can't act like someone else to a girl you know, AND she had a boyfriend in a context where you can't avoid her (work together in assigned groups). She writes to me every month or so back when I text and said stuff like miss you, hope we get to meet more (she's moving back). Earlier when we texted more frequently, she'd text if I didn't. I don't think she's an attention seeker like other girls. There was a girl like that, who I deleted.

[Alex88F]

no problem if that's the first interaction. go with them and have fun. yes it is a good thing for later. be straight up direct "ehy, i want to be only with you" have the balls goddammit
i would go somewhere where you can have fun, doesn't matter where
dinner totally - how to make her touch you? joke around! be stupid! if she continues that signals she's trying to have your attention. She's looking for you validation IE "tell me im pretty" and Duuuuude, goddammit... if she's asking for your help or whatever you could teach her that's another sign. she's playing the damsel in distress

6. no bullshit, you want her. you would even talk about sex if it was just for being friends.

[Alex88F]

7. yes to both questions. dinner is the only way. i agree with you on wanting intimacy

8. i hope for you she's not an attention seeker. i fell for one and it hurts still

[madhatters4]

she could be attracted to both and probably will be

in these scenarios Guy#2 can often get the girl because he may appeal to a sense of excitement. if she is into partying and what not guy#2 may appeal to that side of her...

whereas guy#1 may end up in a friend zone. it is also very possible that the girl recognizes that guy#1 is the guy she should be with

[Asker]

I like your answer hahah. Interesting angle. Ok I have some questions tho, if you explain? I did try to ask in the description, will try to summarise:

1. If they both met her when she was taken, and now she is single, would she consider either of them for sex, sex and then friends forever, relationship? by the way the guys don't know each other (two different social circles).

2. As mentioned in the update, with guy 1, she often talks to him about how she admires him. She does have fun exciting moments with him (experiences) and also loves how he talks/his presence/charisma. He is more a carey grant/smooth guy who flirts subtly. She's innocent, but also does show excitement round him. With texting, they text less often, but much deeper. In meeting, they have a sweet/smooth vibe. So is he an option for sex? They may not be each others' ones

[Asker]

3. With guy 2, pls see description, but mainly it's more frequent texting, short bursts. Maybe they are more friends then, then anything else. Can u explain her reaction to his fb posts pls? I described it in the question - e. g. posing with 4 girls including her and labelling it "likedaboss" and she "likes" it? Also with him, arm on shoulder, with guy 1, she puts arm round waist. Guy 2 is more rowdy but also blatantly sexual/objectifying around lots of women. Guy 1 kinda treats her special, whilst still being flirty? Explain?

4. What can guy 1 do or how is he perceived now she's single? And is a friendship forever possible if they were to be intimate? What should he do when meeting her (assuming she is going to be based closer to him soon for work), group solo or both?

[madhatters4]

to 1:
yes i think she may. it depends how she is doign with the break up. like if she is over the ex and ready for something new and to move on. ideally she wouldn't engage in anything physical til she is over the ex completely because it can get messy otherwise

2. yes guy #1 is an option for sex.

[Asker]

Ok so for 1 : Yes she's well over the break up. When guy 1 found out, it had been sometime, now it's been almost a year. He will live closer to her soon , so might see her more often.

2. So guy 1 is an option for sex? How could it happen? What should he do, how is he perceived by her?

3. In terms of that fb post and her liking it, what does that say about guy 2 and her?

4. With guy 1, is it a deeper closer relationship then? In terms of waist hug, arms on waist and a more smooth dynamic than brash?

[Asker]

5. Should guy 1 just be rowdy as well, how does he know what she likes or is her innocence to him better? Note she does act fun at certain times, so is that a sign? How to see her being more suggestive? Is the fb posing because it was in a group with guy 2?

[madhatters4]

Should guy 1 just be rowdy as well, how does he know what she likes or is her innocence to him better?
-- no. guy #1 needs to be himself. he doesn't want to change who he is to get a girl. if that girl wants a rowdy guy then she should be with a rowdy guy and guy #1 should find a girl who likes him for him

Is the fb posing because it was in a group with guy 2?
-- i don't know. it could be. or it could just be the social media era we live in where people take lots of pictures. i wouldn't presume pictures indicate that she likes him that way

[Asker]

Ok thanks, I like your points! I think you only answered points 3 and 5 lol? So:

3. Yes I agree. I think the relationship between guy 2 and her is a lot of social media. Since they are in a hobby club together and the resulting social circle, they hang out in that sense. But it seems like he is a texting buddy and maybe she emulates the group vibe, which is why she participated in the photo and "liked" it. I don't really get it, seems like she liked an objectification of women lol. So does she like that or him? I notice tho unlike the other women who commented on that guy being lucky, she didn't join that convo?

5. Ok so guy 1 should be himself. I completely agree on that. Be who you are right. I think she likes him for that as well. Is the fact that she shares more about herself and there is some kind of sweet/affectionate dynamic between them a plus sign?

[Asker]

Sorry could you check points 1, 2 and 4 also pls?

1. Se will live closer to guy 1 soon , so might see her more often. She hasn't banged guy 2 and is this good for guy 1? She's mentioned missing him and they'll have more chance to meetup more now?

2. So guy 1 is an option for sex? How could it happen? What should he do, how is he perceived by her?

4. With guy 1, is it a deeper closer relationship then? In terms of waist hug, arms on waist and a more smooth dynamic than brash?

[madhatters4]

i'm going to keep this short because you are clearly deeply deeply analyzing this.

from what you've described she sounds like she is interested in guy #1 and guy #1 based on what you said sounds like the guy she probably should be with. will she have sex wtih guy #1... I don't know. I don't know the situation well enough. but generally speaking if a girl is sexually active and finds a guy attractive and is in a relationship with him at some point they will have sex.

try not to over analyze because i think in a way it almost paralyzes you from action

[Asker]

Haha ok. I know, I think liking someone does that to you, you end up overthinking. This is the power of women! I do appreciate your words, and I wish I had your confidence bro. Tbh I don't normally get nervous like this about other women, this friend, she makes me feel good inside (haven't told her this). Ok

Right, so she does like guy 1 yeah? I mean I dunno if she is sexually active. She's had 1 boyfriend before. But I mean I'm a virgin, cos I was hoping to lose that to a someone I really like. Now that could be her. I don't think we're each others "ones" but she is someone special to me and who I find cute (as in pretty and so so nice).

Is it possible tho to have sex and be friends forever after? I kinda think I would have hit on her if she didn't have a boyfriend earlier. Now she's single, how should I proceed? Dating is a bit harder now, as my logistics have changed (had a bachelor pad, now I'm doing a startup out my folks).

What about her fb reaction to guy 2 (she hasn't banged him)?

[Asker]

And also the fact she has deeper talks, hugs closer and around waist etc with posing with guy 1?

Is guy 1 perceived well in her eyes given she tells him he's great and she admires him?

[Asker]

Thoughts?

[madhatters4]

yes i think what you said about her feelings towards guy 1 are probably true

[Asker]

Ok, but what should he do? She's single now? With guy 1 she does have deeper convo's and talks about meeting. How does he convey attraction physically as well as those personal connective compliments he has always given and on top of this how does he meet her solo, or should he go to a group event?

What about that fb thing tho with guy 2?

[madhatters4]

the pictures with the guy on fb are pretty irrelevant.

if guy 1 likes her he should make a move. stop wondering or worrying. guy 1 will only have unanswered questions until he asks the one person who can answer the question.

[Asker]

That's a good point!!! Ok so fb irrelevant? Is that guy in fact just a friend given their interactions?

Just concerned about the sweet innocent appearance given to guy 1. But then she has also been fun during certain activities.

The worry is losing her as someone as a friend for life afterward? Is it possible to sleep together or have a short relationship and still be solid friends?

How does he secure one to one meets or should he go to a group invitation? Or how to stop a 1on1 becoming a group?

[madhatters4]

Is that guy in fact just a friend given their interactions?
-- i don't know

The worry is losing her as someone as a friend for life afterward?
-- after the relationship ends? if all you want is sex then you probably shouldn't put the relationship in jeopardy. If you want a long term relationship with her then you have nothign to lose in telling her you feel

How does he secure one to one meets or should he go to a group invitation? Or how to stop a 1on1 becoming a group?
-- just say i'd love to take you to dinner some time

[Asker]

Ok, so guy 2 might be just friendly. I mean given it's not really commenting on his fb posts, but "liking" them, I guess?

With guy 1 she gives more indication of being really impressed when she comments on something. Just worried that she might be acting more innocent? And how do you change that by still being who you are?

Losing her after - well I find her physically attractive and would love to lose that virginity to her. I'm not talking about hitting and quitting. Would love to have a relationship, but not sure we are totally compatible for long haul. I dunno if she is interested in a relationship with anyone at this point in her life. So if she was up for fun? If she wasn't then, what could I do? My main problem is logistics as I don't live in the main city anymore. She's moving back to my country but I'm no longer in that town. So day visits/meets are more likely versus constant contact?

1 to 1 - Can you say that to a female friend? Would she expect a group thing, phrasing?

[Asker]

What do u think?

[madhatters4]

i think that you shouldn't consider sleeping with her if that might ruin the friendship.

i don't know and really can't say how she feels about guy #2. but based on what you wrote it doesn't sound like she has any serious feelings or any more feelings than she does towards guy #1

[Asker]

Right good point. If anything, with guy 1 she seems to have a closer relationship than guy 2 through their texts and in person dynamic (the hugging etc).

As for guy 1 being a virgin and maybe wanting to spend that 1st time with her?

So could they not sleep together and still be friends? What if he finds her attractive and now she's single (they originally met when she was with someone, and now she's been single for about a year and going to be based closer to him soon), should he voice that?

[madhatters4]

if he likes her he should definitely tell her

[Asker]

But he's worried about losing a friend he knows he'd like to know for life?

How does he tell her out of the blue (she's been single a yr tho only just moving closer)?

[madhatters4]

well then he could sort of just frame as. we have a great friendship and i don't wnat to ruin that but i have to tell you how i feel about you. if you don't feel the same that's fine and i really still want to be friends but i couldn't go through life not telling you how i felt

[Asker]

I see that's a nice way to put it yeah! So is it ok to just well come out and say that? As in , I really like you, always have? Trouble is I'm not sure I can do a relationship right now. But do you think I should reveal I have always found her attractive? I feel like it should be known, but then I do want us to be close still?

Do women dig that?

[madhatters4]

i think so yes.

[madhatters4]

generally people like to hear that someone likes them. it's flattering and a self confidence boost. i also imagine that she may already have a feeling about how you feel

[Asker]

Ok, so it's ok to say?

Hahah yeah I know, does she know, do they (women) know? Thinking about it, although I'm a pretty nice gentleman, I probably am extra nice to her.

But how do I even phrase that attraction that I've always felt. I mean I can even remember when I first saw her (I actually thought omg that girl is pretty) before we formally met.

Can you come out strong from telling them and what about staying friends if you can't do a relationship with her? Also erm, losing your virginity to her?

[Asker]

Thouhgts?

[Asker]

What do u reckon?

[Asker]

How do you tell her she is attractive, say that you held back when she had a boyfriend from saying that?

Is having sexual relations an option? Or hooking up if she and you are both innocent polite ppl? And can you still be friends for life?

[madhatters4]

you just tell her how you feel about her. tell her you don't want to ruin your friendship but you fel tlike you had to tell her how you feel

[Asker]

Would it make it awkward though? I wasn't friends just cos of her looks and I hope she knows that. Tbh I have only mentioned her personality before which I think she loved. I held back from saying she was hot when she had a boyfriend. Now she's single?

And How can you even tell someone this?

[madhatters4]

you just tell them. yes it could be awkward but goign through life not telling people how you feel is akin to living a lie

[Asker]

I agree , but I didn't tell before because she had a bf! So now she's been single a year and moving closer, how do you tell? I'm a virgin and although confident, in matters like this, would appreciate some guidance on words and phrases? So she swoons?

[madhatters4]

nothing guaranteed to make her swoon. just tell her how you feel. how she makes you feel. how you'd like to be with her. how and why you could be a great partner for her.

[Asker]

I know, but dating wise, I dunno if she is up for that with anyone right now, maybe she just wants to have fun being single? For me, likewise, I'm not sure I can give it my all, but I sure would want to convey I find her attractive which I guess I couldn't if she met someone again?

What does a woman like to hear where it's sweet and not awkward?

Can you just blurt it out?

[madhatters4]

you can find out if she is open to dating just by asking her about her life and how the dating world is treating her. you don't blurt it out but you just have a conversation.

[Asker]

I know, but I get scared if I mention her dating that she would think me just a friend since I'm asking her whether she is meeting anyone in general chit chat?

[madhatters4]

well if she sees you as just afriend then at least you'll know how she feels.

my friend we've been going back and forth for 7 days. it seems like you are paralyzed to act. nothing will happen good or bad until you just go for it. if she doesn't see you as more than a friend that may suck but at least it's closure on teh situation and you can move forward... but maybe she sees you as more and you'll never know until you just go for it

[Asker]

I know it's just HOW precisely do I word it in a text to meet her 1 to 1 for dinner or whatever? I'm worried that given others are in the city she might want to meet on the same day etc?

And how do you convey she's attractive without putting pressure on her or you?

Is saying she has a sexy mouth good?

[madhatters4]

I know it's just HOW precisely do I word it in a text to meet her 1 to 1 for dinner or whatever?
-- I'd love to meet up sometime, maybe go to dinner or something
I'm worried that given others are in the city she might want to meet on the same day etc?
-- nothing you can do about scheduling. but not a reason not to try

And how do you convey she's attractive without putting pressure on her or you?
-- you just tell her you think she's beautiful
Is saying she has a sexy mouth good?
-- probably not unless that's how you talk to each other

[Asker]

Right in the context of her coming back here and welcoming, is saying Let's meet up for dinner, ok?

As for others being around, how do you state the invitation for dinner so it's clear it's just you two. Or indeed if asked by her about others, how do you politely state you'd prefer just her without sounding like a jerk? Still want to be a gentleman?

Telling her she's beautiful - but when to say it, can u just blurt it out?

The mouth thing - not usually saying that, but would like to convey? Is there a way where she feels great about that? I mean someone here mentioned women like that stuff?

[madhatters4]

As for others being around, how do you state the invitation for dinner so it's clear it's just you two. Or indeed if asked by her about others, how do you politely state you'd prefer just her without sounding like a jerk? Still want to be a gentleman?
-- i really want to catch up i feel like you and i haven't caught up one on one in forever

just tell her what you like about her without making it about sex. saying you have a sexy mouth has implications of things like oral sex or something. just tell her she's beautiful.

you're ready to fly. you'll be fine. just try to be cool and casual. she's your friend not the president so just keep cool and be yourself

[Asker]

Firstly i loved that you're ready to fly and she's just a friend!! Made me laugh. Dude I wish I had your experience, just haven't met many decent women growing up, so it's difficult (also I happen to be more polite than most sigh).

"i really want to catch up i feel like you and i haven't caught up one on one in forever"

Is it ok to say the haven't caught up one on one? That is what I want, I think I'm just scared to be too obvious? But then again, would she think it awkward or like it? So saying "haven't seen you in forever, let me treat you to welcome you home", is that good or not?

Would appreciate your thoughts on that, cos that is the crux of the matter. Also separately she is going on holiday before returning, is wishing her a good trip friendly or flirty enough?

Ok, but saying she's so great and missed her, is that enough? I kinda get the impression from the internet that women "have" to see you in a sexual way?

CONT

[Asker]

So I mean the mouth thing, someone else suggested on this thread. I do think she has a lovely mouth and its a cute feature. Sure the thought of oral sex had come up (she was eating an ice cream one day sigh). So is there no way to put that to her so she likes it whilst being polite?

What else can you say?

Thoughts on all this especially the meeting her solo, also if you were invited to a group thing or she asked about shall she see who else is free, or whether someone can come, what to say but not being a jerk?

[madhatters4]

i mean only address the group thing if it comes up. no need to bring it up otherwise

if you find her attractive tell her why. you think she is cute (specifics about what you find cute) tell her what you like about her personality.

[Asker]

Right so if she invited me to something (by initiating), then what would I say?

If i initiate, sorry how do you phrase it clearly so it's implied/it's just us?

And if I contacted her and invited her to dinner or something, how do I and she KNOW it's just us? If she were to ask me about seeing whether anyone is free, or do i mind if someone joins' last minute?

Given it's her coming back after ages, i understand she would want to meet others. I just wanna meet her separately, but fear others joining in if they are free later in the day.

Yes I can tell her the things I like about her, but how do you introduce into conversation rather than just randomly start blurting out how incredible she is?

[Miezko]

In one word: Dramaturgy.
It's a type of social theory first explored by Erving Goffman that basically says we are all actors and who we pretend to be or the role we play is determined by are surroundings. For instance who you are around your friends is probably a lot different than who you are at work in front of your boss.

[Asker]

That's very interesting. Well to a point, I'm just me tbh!

So is she mirroring her surroundings? Can u answer in terms of your fascinating perspective in relation to each point pls? E. g.
2. She perceives guy1 as this guy 2 as that. On fb like this, by text this.
3. etc
4. etc

Thouhgts?

[Asker]

So in point 2 I'm asking why she perceives each guy in those ways or how indeed she perceives each. Why she reacts on fb and in person like that?

In point 3, what about her texts and in person reaction?

And point 4, any potential sex and life friendship?

[Asker]

Any thoughts miezko?

The descriptions of each guy are above? And what about the fb, texting and in person interactions

[Asker]

Miezko anything

[Shygal11489]

She could be attracted to both. But guy 2 is more spontaneous and exciting and keeps her on her toes. He probably also says exactly what he wants (to sleep with her etc) which is why he gets it.

A lot of nice guys think they come across like guy 1 to girls but they don't. They seem nice and occasionally flirty but that's it. Unless you say what you want and/or go after it. We are going to overthink it and assume you are just being nice.

[Shygal11489]

It also depends on the type of girl and where she's at in life (does she want a relationship or does she want to have fun). If she wants a relationship then guy 1 will probably eventually win out. If she just wants to have fun... guy 2

[Asker]

Interesting points. Ok. Could you explain why attracted to both? She met them both when she had a boyfriend, and now she is single ok (as explained in point 1). This might be easier if you answer in numbered points by the way.

Could you do that, so explain in point 2, how she perceives both and why you are saying she wants to sleep with guy 2 or what each guy is saying to her. Also why she reacts in person and on fb to each guy?

Points 3 and 4?

This is not asking about nice guys in general, but these two specific guys.

[Asker]

Thoughts

[Asker]

Like I said, guy 1 is not someone who is nice only once, he has been a good guy in general. She finds him charming etc.

Please answer to this specific guy not a general guy?

[Asker]

You didn't answer the question lol,

[Anonymous]

It's okay to be a good guy, or a gentleman, as long as you're confident. Confidence is the key to success with women. Although "players" seem like they don't have much to offer besides looks, it's their confidence that does get them a long ways.

If you're a good guy, who is too shy or nervous or unconfident to ask the girl out, she'll find that unattractive. However, since she likes talking to you, and you're very "nice", she will most likely put you in the friend zone, so she doesn't lose someone who boosts her self esteem and makes her feel better.

If you want change. I suggest you go out into the world and put yourself out there with women. You don't need to be a douche, or a jerk, or a player, but just be confident!

[Asker]

I agree on your first point. Did you read point 2 and guy 1. "He is respectful, but also confident". And in this case guy 1 and guy 2 are equally attractive. If anything guy 1 is more attractive.

What you are talking about sounds pretty generic. Can u please answer the specific points in the question/description

[Asker]

Anything

[bcromartie]

Its simple logic really, if someone says "hey, let's play this game!" you've got a clear message. If someone says "I heard this game is good... Yeah?" its the same message. But your response to both will be equally measured. To the first a direct yes or no. To the second a more critical explanation of your answer perhaps.

It's not that one is more interesting its that the set up is different so the language has a difference in call to action.

[Asker]

Interesting point. So are you saying people mirror the surroundings? So can u clarify are you saying that one is more meaningful?

It might be easier if you answer in numbered points, but can you explain as described in the description of the question these two specific guys and this girl?

2. How she perceives them (see descriptions of them above), her reaction on fb to one and how she is in person and texts the other

3. As in the details

4. As in details above

The questions are in the description above?

[Asker]

Anything

[Asker]

Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

2. By less innocent to you mean what? She tends to respond to what he puts out there? He's more flirty and touchy so she is too, kind of thing? Then she responds to what guy 1 puts out there which is more reserved. You don't bring a bull to a china shop. That makes sense to me. Guy one probably instigates the pictures so if he says lets take a picture and gathers everyone around so makes sense there would be a lot of them if he's the one who's into it and all the girls would gather around when he pulls them in for a picture. Guy 2 is louder and more party like so that is what his presence demands.

4. Who wants to stay friends with someone they have casual sex with? You have casual sex with someone who is fun to be around but you don't mind losing which sound like guy #2. if you are going to sleep with them but still want them around then you minus well date them... casual sex doesn't make sense there.

[Asker]

Thanks for this. Good points, but need to clarify.

2. How is she perceiving each guy based on the descriptions of the SPECIFIC guys mentioned above? Neither is a stereotype of nice/bad. They are two different people. Pls explain the perception, how she acts by text, in person and in one person's case on fb? Are you saying she mirrors? No. Guy 1 would participate in a picture, and if it's him and the girl alone, then they wrap their arms round the waist. So what is she thinking? Guy 2 initiates the pictures with her and other women surrounding him and captions it as described. Explain her perceptions of that based on what I stated above?

3. So who is she closer to given she met both in the circumstances explained in the question detail (point 1)

4. So you can't bang a good friend who isn't the one? Why? Wtf so a boyfriend material guy will never get sex whilst a guy who probably won't be a friend for life will? How twisted? Why can't you have sex with guy 1?

[Opinion Owner]

3. I don't know since I don't know her. She def. seems to see the guys differently though. Seems like she sees number 2 as more good time (texting him more, sharing jokes, fun pictures). And you as more serious (talking to you less but about more important stuff). As far as pictures go I never thought about that and I doubt she does. She behaves however she feels in the moment and however she feels most comfortable to bahave. She probably doesn't feel like she is being less innocent just having a different kind of fun.
4. A woman's body is not a reward system for a man's behavior or personality. Casual sex is casual sex... it doesn't matter what kind of person you are. It's all about the sexual tension and who has more of it with you. No I wouldn't sleep with a friend, not if I want to keep him as a friend. I wouldn't want to stay friends with a casual fling either. I would try to stay close with an ex boyfriend.

[Opinion Owner]

1. I can't pretend to know how she perceives anything, I don't even know her to make any informed guess. Do you even know if she is even looking to have casual sex or is that just what your hoping?

[Opinion Owner]

Maybe try to have lighter friendships, if your friendship becomes to deep and you are real friends I can't see anyone looking at you for a casual fling. Make a new friend that you can be into and keep things light. try to behave how you want her to treat you... you know?

As for the current girl. You guys are friends... a lot of people don't want to sleep with their friends and if that's the case their is nothing wrong with that!

[Asker]

Hi thanks for getting back. Yeah I see your points. Good analysis by the way.

3. Yes it's just given she met BOTH guy 1 and guy 2 when she was already in a relationship and then became single, are they an option for either sex or dating? I see your point about seeing them differently. Could you clarify? So for instance extra info, with guy 1 she finds him uplifting and often tells him how good he is (complimenting him) and saying she misses him. It's deep stuff, but there is still some flirty jokes or fun in there. In person, they have had fun as well, she loves his drive. With guy 2, they are in the same after work club she joined. Is texting him more often but less deep any indication? And also calling him by his surname? What does the fb reaction tell you given he kinda posted a thing that he was a "boss" having her and 3 girls around him and she also "liked it" on there?

[Asker]

3. b) So are you saying she mirrors her surroundings? So how does guy 1 get her a bit looser/less innocent/good girl around him? E. g. in a group setting and also how in a one to one meet? How do you know what she wants to have if you are the guy lol? Is guy 2 actually a friend then? Also she mentions that she and guy 1 can meet more regularly once she is in his neighbourhood soon. Meaning?

4. I get that. And yes, agree, I'm not saying that she is obligated to sleep with anyone. All I'm asking is, given that it's neither guy's fault when they met her (taken), would she think of them in terms of possible hookup or boyfriend or long term friend? So both guys, as evidenced by the description have a different interaction and rapport with her. Is one better or is she closer to one? Explain? In this case, she hasn't stayed close with the ex. Clarify the sexual tension for both guys here? With guy 1 her arms and his are around the waist?

[Asker]

1 (or 5 lol). Yes I concur that don't know. But what do you reckon based on this? Well, be nice if she was guy 1's first that's all? What do u think? She is very beautiful as well as so nice. But he also values her a lot. He probably texts her sweet stuff compared to friend/jokey stuff with guy 2. Though guy 1 does also share flirty/quirky things occasionally making her laugh a lot. Would a girl want to be with her close impressive/guy friend she admires? by the way she hasn't used the friend word with guy 1, tho I guess you assume it right being in touch with one another and meeting up? What should guy 1 do now she is single? But he's not in a position for a relationship and also sees her as someone he would know and be close to later in life (not the one, but a really great girl he'd love to be intimate with but also continue to support and have fun as friends - non sexually with later in life)?

[Asker]

Any thoughts pls

[Opinion Owner]

If you don't think it would go anywhere in the long run and you want her in your life later then having a casual sexual relationship would be stupid.

[Asker]

Can u respond to my points pls

[Asker]

i. e. on the fb post, her reaction, her interactions with guy 1 in person and text, and the connection feeling between us? Also I'm a virgin?

I listed them just above?

[Opinion Owner]

What does you being a virgin have to do with anything?
I can answer all your points but it comes down to if your smart and you want her in your life later and you really are a good guy... just leave your friendship be.

[Asker]

I know I am a good guy (I think there is a line from friends, when he goes, I know, damn it I hate that lol). I do really care about her.

Virgin meaning she is someone I'd like to lose that to. I do find her physically attractive but did not voice this when she had a boyfriend. Now she's single, I don't know how to up my physical compliments to her versus the primarily personal ones I give her (cos I genuinely think she is great in those things).

What do you make of her reaction to that guy's fb post? Is he in fact just a friend given nothing has happened?

I mean is it possible to be intimate with her? I'm worried about going for it whether it be hookup or relationship lest we can't be friends forever after?

[Opinion Owner]

If you guys do the casual sex thing then say goodbye to any relationship long term. Guy 2 sounds like the better candidate... he's not a long term friend. He's prob more of a fun aquaintence. Someone you can can escape and keep it light with (doesn't need to know or talk about anything of substance for you).

For me a good guy wouldn't be trying to sleep with someone unless they wanted a relationship. in my opinion good guys don't do casual... at least not the good guys I'd want anything to do with wouldn't -lol. Sex is best in a relationship with someone you really care about and see a possible forever with.

[Asker]

Ok, I kinda get your points, but find it a bit contradictory, could you clarify please?

Firstly as for casual sex, what about two good people who might not be each others' forever but they also are close/fun opposite sex people who might be friends in the future 80 years down the line. So I'm not talking about hitting and quitting her, I really do value her. What I mean is is it possible to become intimate if neither of us are looking for a relationship or as a short term relationship? Given logistics have changed when I met her (sadly she had a bf), it's difficult for me to date her, compared to seeing her now and again?

Secondly, for guy 2, she hasn't banged him. And she is also going to be moving for work back to near where I am. Could you explain her reaction on fb to him?

Thirdly, how do you mean about guy 2 would get sex? Would she still be friends after? So guy 1, despite having a better rapport, doesn't?

[Opinion Owner]

Casual sex is for hitting and quitting though is what I am saying...

If you want her in your life down the line it would be stupid to sleep with her. The other guy (guy 2) doesn't sound like a life long friends he sounds like a fun friend and they are the type of people you have casual sex so you can hit it and quit it unless you want more of it... but you can't go backwards and once it's done keeping them around isn't usually realistic.

Believe it or not people don't take facebook nearly as seriously as you do. Most people like there friends pictures esp. if they are in them and they will joke and fool around abotu them too and 99% of the time it means nothing.

Save your virginity for someone you can see forever with or enter a friendship with the goal of being the "fun, light" friend. Depending on what kind of person you are and what you want.

[Asker]

Interesting points! What I mean casual, I didn't mean hitting and quitting. What I meant was can two friends/ppl who know each other after she becomes single, can they have sex maybe on more than one occasion and still be close (if not closer) friends forever? They were friends before? My issue is as guy 1 I met her when she had a boyfriend, so naturally didn't hit on her blatantly then. Now she's single? Don't understand, wouldn't you rather have sex with a guy who is not only attractive, but a good person to you?

I kinda see your point about her later in life. But what if you find her physically attracive and she's someone who you would want to lose your virginity to?

Guy 2, I guess so. But bottom line is she hasn't slept with him and is moving away from there. Right so in this case, with his fb pic, it probably means nothing? She didn't comment on it like other girls, but did like it.

You could lose your virginity to a girl and still meet the one later tho right? So why not her?

[Asker]

given I feel a connection with her and find her attractive?

Thoughts on all?

[Opinion Owner]

Casual is for hitting and quitting. Your not getting that. Sex isn't for friends forever. When you guys start dating other people do you think they are going to be comfortable hanging around with their boyfriend/girlfriends ex bone buddy? NO! And you also run the chance of someone falling for the other and getting hurt when they decide they want more and move on. If you go casual then kiss the friendship goodbye long term. Casual sex is not for best friends forever in fact it's the quickest way to end any real friendship. If you really value her then sex with her would be really stupid!

In a casual relationship it doesn't matter if the guy is good to you... it's not a relationship it's sex... nothing more. So a goodguy and a bad guy are the same when it comes to casual sex it comes down to who you have better chemistry with and who you don't mind not having in your life later.

[Asker]

I find it a bit contradictory tbh? So how would a really really good guy to you be the same as someone like guy 2 (forget some stereotype bad boy). If guy 1 is more attractive than guy 2, then wouldn't the sex be better?

1. Sex isn't equal. It's not like you get the same product for the same price. Some sex might be wilder/far more exciting and better. The good guy who is charming (guy 1 above) provides a connection with her which would only heighten the sex wouldn't it? I mean for the guy, guy 1 would love to lose his virgnity to her and her being HER means to him the sex would be better than just finding a random girl at a party who he doesn't know or find as attractive and banging her. He might as well just jerk off?

2. What if he values her as someone he'd like to know later on in life, but also finds her attractive and someone he'd like to spend his first time with?

3. Can you not be friends with lovers if you kept it to yourselves?

[Opinion Owner]

1. Attractiveness does not make good sex, chemistry does. Chemistry isn't logical it's physical.
I agree that not all sex is equal. An emotional connection is not needed for amazing sex of the casual nature though and really would just cause problems. Connection heightens meaningful sex... it makes a relationship stronger and makes you feel more connected but their isn't really room for that out side of a relationship. Casual sex is just purely of the physical nature. Just a physical connection is needed. If you have off the walls chemistry then the sex will be awesome-sauce.
2. Then he'd have to pick. What's more important long term the sex or the friendship? And would she agree?
3. Generally not.

[Asker]

1. Woah completely disagree. Attraction is chemistry yes. But chemistry is NOT physical. It's way more than that. So a girl who is cute and nice, makes me feel good about myself, you can bet that sex with her is going to feel amazing. It's not just how she looks. If a good looking girl who I don't know that well and she doesn't moan etc or display affection, well that would be bad. I'm not saying you have to be committed to someone for life, but I think sex with someone based on a connection (e. g. friend, crush etc) is way better, since the mind will be racing. That's why sex with someone you know or like would probably be much more exciting than getting off to a pornstar. So I agree with the "offthewallawesome-sauce". Seriously I love your adjective there! But wouldn't guy 1 provide that connective hot sex here? Given he is also exciting and a good person?

2. That's the problem lol. One thing is he'd like her to know he finds her physically very attractive. When she had a

[Asker]

boyfriend he stuck primarily to personal compliments. There is something there between them that is unexplainable, but he feels some closeness. He doesn't know if she finds him attractive, but she does seem to admire him or share some more personal chemistry than with the guy 2's of this world. Guy 1 is a virgin, can he spend his first time with her?

3. I see. Well had guy 1 met her earlier, he'd have asked her out, but she had a boyfriend. Now she is single, he finds her attractive, but is not in a position to date (logistics etc). He really finds her special, should he tell her that? That he always thought her pretty. She's mentioned they will see each other more frequently when she moves for work back in his country. As for the staying friends after "making love", can it not be done then? She's not the one, but she is someone cute and very nice. See he does really value her and she's grown on him as someone he hopes he knows for all his life?

[Opinion Owner]

1. Okay I am talking about sexual chemistry. I am talking about that urge whenever you are near someone to touch them. I am talking about their almost feeling like their is static electricity when the person stands close. I'm talking about melting when someone makes eye contact with you. I'm talking about talking close because you can never be close enough. I'm talking about tension. Sex with tension is amazing and explosive. That is who you'd pick... whoever you have that with esp. if your just looking for sex. If you feel a magnetic pull like that with someone their is noway the sex will be bad. If you can get that with a good guy who you have a connection with you go for a relationship not casual

3. You obviously have it in your head that you think this is a good idea. I guess you'll just have to learn first hand. Hope it works out for you. goodluck!

Your right sex within a relationship is absolutely amazing... however with a friend? you are setting yourself up for a huge failure.

[Asker]

1. Sexual chemistry tho, guy 1 could have that. How would he or she know? She doesn't have that with guy 2. Can u have that with a social circle person?

2. Ok what if the friend would be a great relationship material person? I mean if the girl is close with him in terms of deeper stuff text wise. If she shares her life with him in person. If since she became single she hugs him close, waist touching and is close to him when talking. If she is genuinely excited in his presence, calls him amazing and loves to hear from him?

3. Is this guy not someone where the sex could be incredible if he happens to be attractive as well? Is it his fault he met her when she had a boyfriend. Now she's single tho what can he do if he is a bit scared of losing a friend either by asking or after any relationship (even if it's only a brief one lol)?

[Asker]

Also did u see point 2?

[Opinion Owner]

Oh I thought I answered #2 in my other 2 answers... bad idea. Sure he can spend his first time with her if he doesn't really value their friendship.

[Opinion Owner]

1. They could have sexual chemistry or they do? in my opinion the level of sexual attraction needed for casual sex isn't something you could have it's either something you have or something you don't You would know already. You'd be able to feel it whenever you were around her and you'd have trouble taking your hands off each other and not just when saying bye or posing for pictures...
2. Don't know what you are trying to ask here? You said you don't see this going anywhere long term so to try to make it into anything more then it is would be a mistake in my opinion unless you don't mind running the huge chance of losing her from your life.
3. Good guys don't use girls for sex. Hence the good part. If you know the relationship won't go anywhere then just entering it so you can have sex with her is wrong.

[Asker]

Thanks!

1. Oh, so you think it's a bad idea? I mean I can't help having met her when she had a boyfriend. And I'm the type of person who wants that first time to be with someone who I share a connection with as well as finding physically attractive. And tbh I find her special? It's just that I would want to be friends after. She's not the one, but someone I do think of highly and value? So she wouldn't want to take it?

2. Can you explain? So you can't have sex with someone you know then? The connection of knowing each other, being deep with them as well as being physically attractive is not sexy? I'd argue that an innocent friend like her, who I find cute and attractive being naughty in the bedroom is a more exciting prospect than banging a random pornstar? There's something there, but I'm not sure, it's like a butterfly feeling as well as getting aroused at her picture?

3. What I mean, is I could have dated earlier given logistics. Now I can't easily. She's not "the one", and I don't

[Asker]

3 cont. mind being intimate with her or even semi-dating her so long as we don't become two people who never talk again like she has with her ex. See I do really feel affectionate about her and would want her in my life later on. She is someone rare - actually nice unlike many girls you meet at uni?

4. I agree. It's just that it seems like wouldn't sex only make us closer? I'm not someone who hits and quits. I mean I am a virgin as well. What I'm saying is I wouldn't just "bang her" once and then never talk to her again. My point is if she was interested, I would love to be intimate with her and build on that friendship to be flirtier friends who share that intimate secret of having had sex once upon a time? Is that possible? If not, then what to do if you're attracted to her (always found her cute and admire her back as much as she admires you)?

[Opinion Owner]

Why not just wait and lose it to someone you feel could be the one?

[Asker]

I'd like to date first, the one could be a long time away! I'm open to having sex before marriage, just want those times having sex to be with nice people.

My 4 points?

[Opinion Owner]

I feel like I've said the same stuff a 100 times I just can't do it anymore sorry. Goodluck.

[Asker]

I don't think you have else I wouldn't ask?

If you responded to each numbered point it would be simpler for both of us?

[Opinion Owner]

I did repeatedly up to a point and then it got to the point that just answering one answered all of them. It just seems like your not getting it because I'm not telling you whatever it is that you want to hear. I've read a lot of your other convos here and it's the same thing... you just keep asking the same stuff. I really do hope you find whatever you are looking for though.

[Asker]

Er ok. Thanks though. I thought you were very helpful. Just maybe you missed my later points in response to yours? I number them to make it simpler to respond to. Some people here have responded ok. Some though are talking about some generic situation and not mine. And then they just stopped responding unhelpfully on both accounts.

If you do have anything helpful then I'd appreciate it still! I mean like I said, neither guy above is a stereotype, and she hasn't had sex with guy 2.

She will be moving back very soon, and I was hoping to meet her more on her own now (like we did last time when I found out she had become single) versus in a group, what do u think?

And is it not possible to have sex (my 1st time) and be closer friends after?

[Anonymous]

Clearly she'd fuck guy 2. She'd probably date him. Guy 1 is just a friend.

She's not likely to be in touch with either 10 years from now.

She's mainly just attracted to guy 2 more.

But it can also be true that guy 1, by not being a 'pig' makes her feel uncomfortable about expressing her own sexuality. Guy 2 by being willing to be the 'sex pervert' makes a space where it's safe for her to be sexual and feel like he won't judge.

Guy 1 may in fact be even less judgmental, but he isn't conveying that. He's conveying that you have to be 'respectful' to each other.

[Asker]

I don't think you quite understand.

1. Why would she fuck guy 2? Or even date him, provide your justification by relating to the actual descriptions. He isn't some generic bad boy. Nor is guy 1 some generic nice guy. Both of the guys are friends of the girl and met her when she had a boyfriend.

2. How do you come to that conclusion about guy 1? Seems like more than a friend. He's a carey grant character, smooth and suave? Did u read the description?

3. Provide justification for attraction to one guy more? Based on what? Is guy 2 not in fact in the friend zone? Fb and being a texting buddy doesn't equal attraction?

4. Explain her reaction to guy 2's fb post? Note she does not comment on it like other girls, but does click that like button

5. Is guy 1 not being subtle though? How is he meant to act then to let her express herself?

6. So how does guy 1 convey he doesn't judge and she can be wild?

7. She has been fun with guy 1 in certain situations. That good? With guy 2, she is fun in

[Asker]

7 cont. with guy 2 in a group setting only?

8. Isn't guy 2 judging tho by saying likeaboss or captioning photos with other women as withfitties? His compliments to her are mainly physical. Guy 1 gives personal compliments.

9. Now she's single, how would she perceive each, who can she bang and be friends forever with?

[Asker]

Thoughts

[Asker]

Useless

[Anonymous]

Many women shape shift into what they think a guy finds most attractive. Sometimes they will even feign interest in the same hobbies as you, same beliefs and pretend to be interested in stuff they have zero interest in.

Think about it, you are asking a question about a group of people that most have never even seen their real face (makeup).

[Asker]

Fuck, that is a GREAT point. So are you saying they mirror their surroundings? That's a good angle, I mean I noticed she can sometimes be slightly different in group company to one to one meets?

I like the angle! Can u pls answer in terms of each point?

So in point 2 I'm asking how she perceives each and who she might be sexual with or intimate with? Why she reacts to fb like that etc. I described each guy in detail and her reactions above.

And then points 3 and 4 pls?

[Asker]

Thoughts?

[Opinion Owner]

She will see guy 2 as a sexual prospect. As much as people would like it to be true, being a gentleman is never seen as a good thing by the vast majority of women although there are always exceptions. Guy 1 is much more likely to be friend zoned but she may see him as a backup plan or a friend / emotional pillow until guys like guy number 2 are done with her.

She may consider being in a relationship with guy 2 but he is less likely to be interested and she will see that as a challenge. She may consider guy 1 for a relationship but like I said, only after guy 2 types have annoyed her enough by not changing.

Guy 1 seems to have some elements of guy 2 so that does place him in a better area but being sweet and complimentary gives away all of your power and inflating a woman's ego is something almost all other guys do so when guy 2 does not do it, he stands out more and she may feel she needs to qualify herself or even fish for compliments or validation.

[Opinion Owner]

The more attractive she finds either guy, the more she will shape shift and the more she may lie to keep herself being seen in a good light. Even though there are similarities between both guys, unfortunately the one that cares less is the one that will more likely be seen by her as the better catch. Even some studies show that women find narcissistic personalities more attractive.

[Asker]

I like your analysis. Ok but:

1. I kinda think you are maybe thinking about guy 1 and guy 2 as two stereotypes of a nice guy and bad boy. But I have described specifically two people who don't fit into two moulds. So guy 1 is a gentleman, yes, but also like a carey grant. He is smooth, energetic and passionate. That's what she admires about him and why she kept in touch. Guy 2 is the guy who is a friend in her hobby club social circle who she sees way more often and converses on fb a lot. So isn't guy 2 the one in the friend zone?

2. She hasn't banged guy 2 and she is emigrating to near where guy 1 lives shortly. Is she just mirroring guy 2's behaviour whilst in a group? Can you explain the fb photo and her reaction to "liking it"?

3. Guy 1 and her have this connection of some sort. Now she's single (they met when she was taken) what is he perceived as and how should he act? Explain complimenting her personality as he does?

[Asker]

4. Guy 2 texts/fb a lot like a text buddy tho right? With guy 1 they converse less often, more deeper in each occasion. She seems quite excited to hear or find out what he's doing and talks about seeing him etc?

Thoughts?

[Asker]

5. In this case, how does guy 1 shows he cares enough, but less? Nice point about narcissistic tendencies of some women! But how does guy 1 know what she wants in terms of wild behavior or smooth like carey grant interactions? With him she puts her arm round his waist etc when posing. She does also have fun moments when they do an activity? Is he a sexual prospect?

[Opinion Owner]

I was not thinking guy 1 and 2 were the stereo type of bad boy and good guy, I clearly said they were a combination. It does not matter that they do not fit into the two molds, a woman's tingles do not care.

In order to care enough but not too much and to keep her interested but not bored and not too distant is a lot of effort and all about balance. It's why I no longer bother. The fact is, the quickest way to the friend zone is by being straight forward, the best way to keep out of it is to demonstrate that you are not her friend, but that you are her lover, a sexual being, not a pal. You also keep her guessing and play games... bs right?

You do this by not being afraid of showing your attraction, masculinity and desires but without making her feel uncomfortable... see how much effort it takes, it's like balancing on a pole to get her to balance on yours.

One of the keys to doing this is in how you talk, bodylanguage, innuendo and planting of sexual thoughts and fantasy

[Asker]

Can you please answer my numbered points. I think talking in bullet points makes it easier.

You are telling me about a generic guy and girl and the friend zone here. In this case, neither guy can avoid that because they meet her WHEN SHE HAS A boyfriend. Now guy 1 keeps his distance whilst still being close in the sense of deep convos etc now and again and meeting up. Guy 2 is a friend who she sees often as part of a hobby club.

Now she is single, what can you do to give off the lover vibe? On top of this, how to keep the balance if you want to be friends forever afterward?

Ok, so give examples of the body language (I am guessing hand on back, and on waist as guy 1 already does), innuendo (examples in text and person), and planting of sexual thoughts/fantasy?

What do you think about guy 2's fb post and she liked it?

The fact she hugs closer and poses closer with guy 1? Tells him she admires him and hopes to meet more now she's going to be living closer to him?

[Asker]

Anything?

[Asker]

Thoughts

[tyber1]

Want to win her over and get her respect? Be direct with her, tell her you like her and you want to go out with her. Do it in person if you can, if that's not possible right now, try doing it over the phone.

Don't wait to do this. Do it today if you can. Every day you wait is another day that this other dude could make a move or hit on her. The only guaranteed way to win against a more exciting guy (assuming she likes you both) is to be more bold than him.

[Asker]

I like how you put it. It would have been easier when I lived in a bachelor pad in the city (when she had a bf). Now I run a start up from my folks sigh. She is actually going to be based for work closer to me (my country) versus over there with him and others.

1. Thing is isn't guy 2 kinda friend zoned in a way? What do you make of her reaction on fb to him? And though they text more frequently it's more generic and like a friend right if it's not deep. I. e. texting about the next social club meeting or group chats or otherwise?

2. With guy 1, texts are not everyday, they're less often, but deeper or else about meeting up. In person she has excitement. She wraps her arm round him and vice versa. There hasn't been much contact since she became single. Given she's moving closer, what should he do if he is invited to a group reunion or should he try something else?

3. What if she's not the one, but someone who he'd like to bang but also be friends with?

4. If guy 1 is virgin?

[Asker]

Thoughts?

[tyber1]

I don't know if I would say either of them is friendzoned necessarily, rather I would say that guy 2 is someone she enjoys partying with but isn't that close of a friend to.

If you're a virgin who is looking for casual sex, that's going to be a hard sell. Girls usually prefer a guy with experience. Even virgin girls usually prefer a guy with experience. Being direct about that is probably not the smartest plan.

My suggestion is to invite her to your place, or go to hers, get both her and you tipsy (TIPSY. NOT DRUNK. TIPSY. T. I. P. S. Y.), joke around with her a bit, get closer and go for a kiss. If she goes for it, just progress as though it was a hookup and let her know before you have sex, but after you've started fooling around, that you're a virgin. Have a condom ready.

[Asker]

Great points!

1. Ok, yes I see what you're saying. So guy 2 is more of a party friend versus a closer person like guy 1? by the way guy 2 is part of her hobby club and related social circle. As for guy 1, it was meeting back at uni and she kept in touch with him (despite a boyfriend etc). She'll be living closer to guy 1 soon.

2. Can you explain her reaction to guy 2 on fb? So he posts pics of him and women in his social circle often with memes. In this case, he posted one of himself and her and 4 other women pouting around him/hand on shoulder and labelled it "likedabossyeah" and she "liked" it on fb? With guy 1, there are deeper more intimate convo's by text and in person? With him, she puts hands on his waist and vice versa for poses and greetings?

3. Virginity and sex. Tho I guess everyone has to start somewhere right? I mean I'm not looking to hit and quit her. I like her as someone who could be a friend forever as well. Not sure either is up for a relationship right now?

[Asker]

4. Is it possible tho that she might want to be intimate with guy 1? Would she be excited at the prospect? Even tho they met when she had a boyfriend, now she's single is he perceived like that? Is he too much of a carey grant/gentleman? Or is that a good thing that he is just himself, and not rowdy? As for hooking up, can he still be friends afterward, how does he make that clear? And are you saying to tell her about being a virgin as you start making out? Could you clarify how he should do this if he's about to see her after a very long time, either group meet and solo meet?

[tyber1]

It seems like he was just being braggy and showoffy when he was posing with a bunch of women on his arm. I wouldn't read too much into it. Tell her you're a virgin after you've already done foreplay but before you have sex.

As for the rest, you are throwing like 30 questions at me all at once and I'm frankly not going to answer that many questions, especially since many of them are redundant.

[Asker]

Yeah I see your point on the braggy and show offy vibe. I just dunno, I mean she did hit "like" on fb? As did the other women lol? Didn't realise objectification was liked lol.

Ok, I get your point about virginity after foreplay.

Sorry, would still appreciate your reply. I think I posted 4 points, to clarify in case there were misunderstandings (as a few other posters started talking about other people, not guy 1 and guy 2 lol).

If possible would still appreciate your thoughts as you actually seem to know what you're talking about?

[tyber1]

It's not real objectification, it's sort of a joke that they're in on. Hard to explain. He probably (but not definitely) didn't sleep with anyone and probably didn't even try to.

No I will not even try to answer most of those questions. I don't know if she likes you, I don't know if she'd want to hookup with you, I don't know anything about her at all. It sorta seems like you're a bit insecure, which is normal but don't let it make you desperate and panicked and in need her of approval.

[Asker]

I see. Yeah I kinda get it's a joke. I mean it seems like a lot of other posts (which don't involve her) involve other females from the same hobby club posing with him and he captions them with things like "with hotties" etc. I dunno if he's friend zoned or what. Hasn't slept with her, not sure about the others.

So she's in on the joke then? I mean there are 3 shots. One includes another guy as well as 3 girls so I guess is a group shot. That is the picture she actually commented on. The other 2 are just with the guy and her and 3 other girls around him. She liked those two, but didn't comment. Those he had labelled as "like a boss".

Just wondering if guy 1 (me) should be like that then lol? I thought it's a bit obvious and unnecessary tbh, doesn't appear to necessarily lead to anything?

[Asker]

If she wraps her arm around guy 1 and is closer to him in poses compared to that fb post with the other, is that a good sign?

What if she is not guy 1's forever girl, but someone he would like to know down the line in life. Can they be intimate and how should he proceed now he is single? Can he voice his attraction?

[tyber1]

I can't explain all of her behavior because I don't know her.

Yes, her holding you closer is definitely a good sign.

You should not try to be someone else.

I wouldn't recommend trying to hook up with this girl of you're not interested in dating. I think you should go out with her tbh. You obviously like her. It doesn't matter that she's not perfect. Nobody is.

[Asker]

Ok thanks got the answer about her arm round me in the end!

Right I agree on being who you are. I mean I am confident/flirty just not brash like that. But tbh, I don't think she even likes that stuff. Just worried she might be a tad too innocent sometimes?

See I'd love to take her out now and then or meet up solo versus group stuff (when she was taken). But how do you arrange that? Now she's single, I guess it's ok right. But girls have a way of inviting others or changing times constantly?

So how do I ask by text to take her for dinner or whatever. She's going to be here after a long absence and might invite or try to create a group reunion? Go to that or avoid?

Dating wise, logistics are harder, since I just moved out the big city, so can only meet up now and again, not constant. I'd love to lose my virginity to her or go on dates, but those would be less frequent than a relationship giving my current circumstances.

Thoughts?

[tyber1]

Just tell her that you'd like to take her on a date. If she likes you she may understand your time constraints.

[Asker]

She understand the time contraints of my travel etc. And given she lives further away compared to earlier. Worried about her planning a day with lots of people because of this.

How do you pretty much meet her on her own and her to prefer that with you? So pretty much like a date, but no pressure?

Should you accept group invites?

How do you make it clear when you suggest hanging out, it's meant to be 1 to 1?

[Anonymous]

Historically gals prefer the wild adventures often commanded by the bad boys when younger then rethink what they want when shopping a husband to raise babies & promote careers... not the same guy usually & often opposites.

How is that so different from how guys think?

[Asker]

Lol I like how you put it, historically lol. But then why would a good guy go for her having waited out this whole time?

In general, I don't think genuinely good men would ultimately go through with banging a girl he thinks in his head as "bangable". If presented with two women, one of whom is also nice and who he cares for, he'd opt to have wild sex with her.

But this is beside the point. My question is not about nice guys and bad boys but SPECIFICALLY these two guys.

Can u answer in numbered points as others have done, it makes this much easier?

So in part 2, how is she perceiving each, why react to fb like that and how does she view them?

And points 3 and 4

[Opinion Owner]

NOT easier for ME
and remember this is a freebie so the hard work is really up to you

[Asker]

Lol.

Ok but you still have to answer the question I'm asking to get any up votes given this is not about two generic nice guy/bad guy but two specific people.

Would also appreciate if you could answer the points I just made in response to your original post.

I. e. in part 2, how is she perceiving each, why she reacts on fb to guy 2 like that. How she texts guy 1 and also her in person interaction with him.

3. As stated in the question

4. As stated in the question

[Asker]

You really didn't answer my question at all though did you? So when you say hard work up to me, you haven't helped in any way whatsoever? Your original answer has literally nothing to do with my question?

[Asker]

Useless answer. Down voted

[Opinion Owner]

Hitler

[Dimmu]

I agree with you
Women give their best to jerks
And then commit to good men after she's a leftover
Cause jerks will beat her and won't take her shit
Many women admitted that like you did

[Asker]

@Dimmu Yes I think it's a bit crazy tho. Makes no sense.

Do you have any thoughts on my question? Feel free to opine separately with your own opinion. Specifically the questions I asked above

[Dimmu]

Don't you get it
She said it
They love to be degraded
But if you respected them they will they are somethibg and start to bitch
As long as you are degrading her she will give you her best to satisfy you even she don't love you
If you respected her you take her shit

[Asker]

@Dimmu Ok so what are you saying, you have to disrespect them? No I'm not willing to do that and change who I am. If she wants that, then she can forget it. A real woman wouldn't do those mind games.

I don't think this woman is like that tho. I think you are sadly like the anon poster and not answering my actual question.

I would appreciate your thoughts on my specific question, otherwise like I told her, please post the generic "be a bad boy" rubbish elsewhere where it's actually relevant.

[Asker]

Also as I said, it would be easier to post your own opinion, notification wise so I can see your comments easier.

[Asker]

What do u think

[Karōshi]

I think the majority of girls just go more for guy number 2, it's like reverse psychology or something.

[Asker]

Interesting. Ok, can you answer each point though, it makes this a lot easier to talk about. So in point 2, explain her perceptions of each, the fb post, the attraction to each? And then points 3 and 4?

[Asker]

Ok, her fb reaction, explain?

Her texting habits with guy 1 and in person reaction?

Sex, friends afterward, which?

[Anonymous]

Maybe she's more drawn to guy#2 because she's never been with a guy like that? Or maybe she's a good girl and you know that good girls fall for bad guys.
But I can only talk about in general since I don't know the girl. It's quite possible that she wants the cake and eat it too.

[Asker]

I like the last sentence about the cake! Would you mind answering in relation to each point?

I. e. points 2-4 can u provide your thoughts on each? So I dunno if she has had sex with guy 2. But the behaviour is less innocent than around guy 1?

[Opinion Owner]

That's a tough one. All I can say is that we act different around different people. Often, it's not about the people but it's about us. Like when I'm with someone affectionate, I act more affectionate. On the other hand, we tend to go for what we can't have. If she feels like guy2 is more out of her league, she'll try to attract him by being different than with guy1

[Asker]

Those are some good points. I see, so it's kinda like mirroring? But thing is would you care to explain in point 2, what exactly about guy 2 draws you versus guy 1 or vice versa?

by the way, it might be easier if u simply answer like this, eg.

2. Guy 1 has this and that I like. Would do this or that. Guy 2 has this or that, DOn't like this, like that. More likely to do this with Guy x cos of this or that.

3. Explain why she texts as she does (see above)

4. Explain her behaviour in terms of bang, friends, who she'd do both things with, and still friends after?

[Asker]

Thoughts?

[Asker]

Pls thoughts

[Asker]

She didn't sleep with guy 2 lol. Just posed.

Thoughts?

[Asker]

Well

[Dimmu]

They are called attention whores
They less innocent to encourage boys to give attentions
And be innocent with good boys for attention too
They dont have real personality
If your seeking women don't like to be degraded food luck with the 1%
Did I answer
Still I think that woman gave the real answer
They like adventure but don't like it's consequences

[Asker]

Lol I like it. Almost like a poem. I don't get the part tho where they are less innocent to encourage some boys and innocent for others?

Can you comment on her reaction to guy 2's fb post?

And secondly on her poses with guy 1 (closer and waist touching)?

Finally on the prospect of sex with guy 1 and still being friends after?

[Asker]

Thoughts

[Asker]

Useless

[SovereignessofVamps]

The nice guy isn't sexy or hot to her. Not because of how he acts totally, but because he's not hot anyway.

[Asker]

Hi thanks , got to ask though you did see where I wrote on your post about them not being a nice guy versus bad boy?

Both guys are technically her friend (see the update).

1. I am asking different things. Tbh what you're saying, about her not being hot to him, why then is she sharing information, getting excited in person and in texts and also wrapping her arm round his waist etc?

2. Reading the description of both, can you explain her reaction to guy 2 on fb? And her text habits with guy 1?

3. See the question about who she might have sex with, who she'd have sex and still be friends forever with, and who she might want to date?

4. Is it so black and white, aren't both guys good or is one superior? Pls see guy 1's full description. He is NOT some shy boy. And guy 2 is not a smooth guy, but a rowdy one.

[SovereignessofVamps]

The nice guy is like her bff. If she wanted to fuck, she wouldn't share all that stuff with him about other guys.

[SovereignessofVamps]

If she finds you hot she'll let you know she wants sex

[Asker]

You keep saying "the nice guy". There is no stereotype nice guy described above?

Can u answer my four points I just posted in response to u

[SovereignessofVamps]

He is nice! He tries to appease her and does subtle stuff. If she wanted to fuck, they'd both know. He wouldn't have to act that way for someone he was about to fuck, they'd just have sex.

[Asker]

I don't think you get it hahah. I'd like to hear your thoughts. You need to understand BOTH guy 1 and guy 2 met her when she had a boyfriend. You don't fuck a girl who has a boyfriend. Given that they became part of her social circle (but both don't know each other), what can they do?

I would appreciate you answering my four points lol. I. e. point 2, her reaction on fb to guy 2 and her texting habit with guy 1 as explained in the update.

And point 3 about the sex, she has become single now?

[SovereignessofVamps]

I get it. She wouldn't want to be close and text a lot with a hot guy. She'd fuck him or be sexual somehow first.

[Asker]

Who is the "hot guy"? If you mean guy 2 she is texting him a lot in terms of far more frequently. And she isn't currently fucking him.

With guy 1, she texts him less often, so not everyday. But when they do text, they have deeper conversations. And she talks about meeting him soon, etc.

Like I said neither is just a nice guy or bad guy.

I have asked twice now, what do u make of her fb reaction to guy 2?
Her texting habits with both?
Is guy 2 friend zoned and guy 1 a possible hookup or more?
And about anything sexual in the future?

[SovereignessofVamps]

Her habits... don't matter. She would have wanted sex with guy 1 if she found him attractive. it's really that simple.

[Asker]

Then she would have had sex with guy 2 also right? Which she has NOT?

With guy 1 tho, logistically she hasn't lived near him for a while. But has mentioned moving for work reasons back somewhere he lives?

Can u pls explain her fb reaction to guy 2 (I did ask three times!)?

Her in person reaction to each?

And as for sex in the future, given now she is SINGLE unlike when they first met, what to do as guy 1?

[SovereignessofVamps]

So if she doesn't want sex with either guy what's your question? How to sext?

[Asker]

Who said she doesn't want sex? Are you reading my responses? I'd like your help. you seemed like you know stuff, but I've posted my questions to you several times now?

1. Guy 1 is smooth and suave. Guy 2 is a rowdy. She meet both when she has a boyfriend. Years later she become single. So is either an option for her?
2. Guy 1 , she texts more deeply, less friend stuff often compared with guy 2, more often, mainly friend stuff. Her perception of each?
3. Moving for work someone near guy 1 in the near future. What should he do? Might be invited for group reunion or should he and how should he ask to meet solo.
4. Explain her reaction to guy 2 on fb with his post with 4 girls including her round him labeled as "likedaboss" - she clicked the "like" button
5. In terms of sex, now she is single, can she hookup with guy1? Can they be friends forever after given he values her?

[SovereignessofVamps]

You seem really obsessive about this. i think you're the guy from he other Q. Pls stop commenting.

[Asker]

What question?

I'm not obsessive. You are asking me what am I asking you. I just gave you my questions.

You are the one who aren't reading my question and posting the same advice about some "nice guy" and "hot guy" who don't even exist in my question?

If you don't know anything useful, pls don't pretend to and don't comment on my question. In fact pls don't spam anywhere on gag!

[Asker]

You seem to be one of those people who are arrogant and pretend to know stuff. Then when called up on it, ad hominem attack the innocent questioner.

[Anonymous]

it´s adaptation to a sociolinguistic register. you always adapt your communication to the person or circle of people you are with.

you can like different of those communication styles (registers) but you can dislike them too. it´s personal preference which of those styles the individual chooses or likes to adapt to.

[Asker]

This is damn interesting! OK so what are u saying? Are u saying she mirrors her surroundings?

I would be interested if you could clarify this and match your analysis to each of the points 2-4?

Ie. can u answer like this pls?
2. How she perceives, why she behaves as described above for fb and in person etc
3. question above
4. queston in description above

[Asker]

Very interested to hear your thoughts on this?

[Opinion Owner]

2. guy #1 is obviously interested. she´s probably not but she´s into guy #2 so she tries to get closer to him.

3. same explanation as before

4. #1 likely friendzone. #2 likely sexual interest if not more.

[Asker]

2. Interesting! So clarify why guy 1 is interested. That's more like me by the way. And how do u make the assumption about her, clarify? Explain her reaction to guy 2's fb posts? And guy 1 being suave and the circumstances of which they met in 1.

3. But is it? ice_cat made an interesting point above that guy 2 may be the friend zoned guy whilst guy 1 is the boyfriend option. Since she texts guy 1 less often, but shares deeper convos with than guy 2. Guy 2 and her pose, but off screen it's guy 1 she shares more connection moments with?

4. Clarify why and who is sexual material? And also about your social register theory?

[Opinion Owner]

2. the way you talked about yourself made it obvious even to me that you are interested so she will have noticed too. i already said her reaction is due to her interest in him (that´s what i assume at least).

3 what she said was her naive hope that girls would go for the "nicer" guy, which they in reality rarely to never do. the closer connection to guy one shows that she´s comfortable with him, cause she sees him as a friend. the other one is the one she´s after and since he´s giving her a harder time than you, she has to resort to the social media thing.

4. the social register theory is nothing more than your adaption to the people you communicate with. you very likely do that too. just think about your social behavior and communication in your different circles.

[Asker]

Mhm see I thought you were onto something with social register. So are you saying for one social circle she's more out there, less innocent and more innocent/angelic for another?

2. Are you saying she notices guy 1/me is interested? How does she perceive each guy though. Explain who she is interested, which guy? And why that and what is she interested in?

3. Nah I'm not sure I concur or understand what you're saying. If anything I kinda feel like guy 2 maybe the friend zoned one. If she likes a post on fb, does that mean she is interested in him if it's kinda captioned like he's "themes" surrounded by her and 3 other girls? You're saying that she resorts to social media, but she's in touch with him on there and texting more often. With guy 1 she is touch less often, but always replies and is much deeper/meaningful in her texts. Also guy 2 she hasn't slept with either. So analyse based on that?

4. See the details and point 4?

[Asker]

Can u respond to my specific points. These are not two stereotypes we're talking about, pls see their actual descriptions

[Opinion Owner]

I'm repeating myself. I have already answered those questions. #1 friendzone, #2 possibly interested.

Girls tend to have those deeper conversations with guys that are in their friendzone.

The conversation between you and her is initiated by you, the one between #2 and her is carried by her... So that's how you know he's into him. Girls generally don't do the for fun stuff.

[Asker]

No you're not answering the question. Forget it then.

1. Guy 1 how is he in the friend zone? Did you even read his description?
2. How is she interested? Clarify and answer my question. You say you're repeating, but you never answered? The only one repeating the question (so you don't have to scroll up) is me. And every time you don't answer?

3. Not necessarily. A lover would have a good connection as would a boyfriend.

4. What conversations are u referring to? Guy 2 has a fb post I mentioned in the question. The girl initiates conversation with guy 1 (meetups etc) and texts deep stuff. Guy 2 doesn't get that?

[Opinion Owner]

She's on photos with him and lots of girls. Meaning he's popular with girls, meaning she's probably into him.

Now you just tell me how nice you are to her and the fact that you ask over and over again kind of tells me, that you want me to say that she's into you... And one should think yes girls are usually into the guy, they have the more intimate conversation with but in reality it's the opposite. They never go for the sweet kind of guy. They just use them as shoulder to cry on Everytime they get dumped by those player type guys.

Oh and don't hope for sex, while you're the shoulder to cry on. Not gonna happen.

[Asker]

1. Lol nope you're still NOT READING. Read guy 1's description above:
Guy #1 is respectful, but also confident like a carey grant/casanova. He is SUAVE, and whilst sweet, he is subtly attractive in his flirting. So think, smooth lines versus just brawling about like a schoolboy. When she poses with him she wraps her arm round his WAIST and vice versa. She smiles and is genuinely affectionate. On top of this, if there is a fun moment in an activity her laugh is genuine and her eyes wide with EXCITEMENT. Flirty texts as well. He sends sweet texts and more often than not compliments her personality and qualities. He wants to compliment her appearance now she's single, but unsure. Doesn't converse by fb."

That's not just "being nice "

2. You can't come to the conclusion that someone who posts pictures on fb of himself with girls is "popular with girls". And going to the assumption that she likes him because of that has no basis whatsoever.

[Asker]

3. Read guy 2's description: Guy #2 is much more rowdy. NOT suave and not sweet. Party like. Guy 2 also does lots of memes on his fb and takes a lot of photos. He is fun, but certainly no sweet gentleman or sweet texts. More in your face. His compliments are about looks, never really compliments personality. Has more photos with her, being in a social club with her. One of his fb posts is with her, her hand on his shoulder, and four other girls around him, it's labelled #likeaboss. She "likes it" on fb, tho no comment. She converses more often by text with guy 2."

I asked for your opinion on her reaction

4. In terms of sex, who? And in terms of sex and then friends still, who?

[Opinion Owner]

i´ve read all the descriptions and i´m getting a little pissed off now. i´ve told you everything already. i´ve actually read the things you wrote in the descritions (which i only crossread before) even though they are not really that relevant.

if you reread my answers, you´ll find that i already answered all this.

tl:dr
guy#1 friendszone, probably no sex.
guy#2 interested, possibly sex.

since those are just my guesses based on the very limited things i know about the guys and what the things i guess are, is not determined by you. you just give me bits of information, that are not all that relevant. i´m not going into the very fine detail and write a novel on why and how i came to my conlcusion. that´s just my guess and that has to be enough for you, sorry if this isn´t satisfying.

you´re not even following your own freaking arguments by the way. when i based my opinion on how she converses with #2, you asked "what oncersation", while it clearly says in 3. "she texts guy 2 more often"

[Asker]

You aren't reading it mate.

Guy 1 AND Guy 2 are both FRIENDS of said girl. So if anything how is one and not the other friend zoned?

You say you don't have details, when I have provided you with them.

As for her texting guy 2 more often, I very clearly stated "she texts guy 2 more often, with short bursts of friendly contact. With guy 1, they text less often, but much deeper and exciting stuff."

Pls reassess based on this

[Asker]

Since both guys are her friend, how is one friend zoned and not the other?

[Asker]

Surely both would be friend zoned if both are her friends, wtf?

[Opinion Owner]

cause she talks more deep and rational to the one, while she talks a little more "naughty" with the other xD how is this not obvious to you?

[Asker]

What do you mean talks naughty? I never said that? Explain where?

[Asker]

I was asking about her reaction to guy 2's fb post.

Guy 2 - she has constant friend chat texting (about group meets and the hobby club they are at). Pose at shoulder in a group setting.

Guy 1 - she has exciting and deep text conversations, he's not her texting buddy everyday. Pose with waist solo.

Explain?

[Opinion Owner]

the rowdy player, like communication style you spoke of is what i refer to.

[Asker]

But that's to everyone, not to her alone. She poses with hand on his shoulder in a group shot with him (which he labelled as like a boss). She liked it on fb, but did not comment on it like the other girls.

Again the communication between them is everyday friend stuff. Either way she hasn't been naughty WITH him.

Pls explain her fb reaction to his post?

As for guy 1, how is he not an option for her given they don't have a texting buddy relationship unlike guy 2?

Isn't guy 2 in the friend zone? There's no excitement at the text, as it's expected? Not sure why more suggestive pose, but then again it's in a group. With guy 1 she poses with him in a group or solo with arm round waist and closer?

[Opinion Owner]

dude what do you want me to do here. i can´t read minds. especially not of those i don´t even know. maybe she´s into neither of them or into number 1 but then why have things not advanced yet so that´s how i determined it´s not gonna happen.

she is ok with posing with that dude plus she even likes it on facebook so that´s how i determine that she´s probably into him.

[Asker]

Again you aren't reading or understanding me? I said she poses with BOTH.

With guy 2, she posed with him with 3 other girls and liked a post he had labelled as "like a boss" but did NOT comment on it.

With guy 1, she poses with him in groups and ALONE, with her hands wrapped round his waist and his on hers?

So she is posing with guy 1 as well? Shares it by text and also mentions she hopes they can meet?

[Opinion Owner]

well i guess you can anser your questions yourself then. what do you even ask me for?

[Asker]

I don't get it?

What do u make of my points?

[RedThread]

I think this is more a stereotype than anything else.
It could also be the good guy in your scenario is afraid of women or afraid of offending women. The other guy could be more confident in his actions or at least in specifying what he wants.

[Asker]

No the whole point is neither guy is some "nice guy or bad boy" stereotype. They are two specific people as described.

The good guy does treat her delicately, but is not afraid to be himself. One of the things she admires about him is his passion and self drive. Guy 2 is a fun person, but in your face and his main interaction with her is in a group setting via a hobby club.

What do you make of her fb reaction to him?

Texting habits to each guy and in person hugging etc with each?

In person habits to guy 1 and can they have sex and be friends after for life?

[Asker]

Thoughts