Is marriage for men too risky nowadays?

[bostonceltics10391]

Divorce rates are >50%.
Women initiate most of the divorces (~69%) but not breakups (could it be the money?)
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-more-likely-than-men-to-initiate-divorces-but-not-breakups-study-finds_us_55d61f03e4b0ab468da049bb
Women win in court, get the man's money, house, and kids (in majority of cases >80%)
https://www.divorcenet.com/resources/divorce/for-men/divorce-for-men-why-women-get-child-custody-over-80-time
Women get lots of emotional support, more than men.

Men are expected to re-build their lives after they've lost everything they worked for.
Many cases, men are supposed to "man up" and get on with life.
Even if they've lost what was once the love of their life, kids, and possessions.
Suicide rates are very high among these men (9.7x more likely to commit suicide than divorced women):
https://jech.bmj.com/content/57/12/993.full
Alcoholism and depression rates are very high as well.
https://jfi.sagepub.com/content/14/3/378.short

I'm not saying that all married women are heartless monsters who will ruin a man's life. But numbers don't lie. Men get fucked in divorce. Women, it seems, win the lottery. With the no-fault divorce laws, marriage seems to have lost its sanctity.

Men: is marriage even worth it these days? Do I want a >50% chance that my wife will leave? Do I want to risk losing all the stuff I worked for? Do I want to be depressed and have thoughts of killing myself? If the risk is that high, I'm not so sure if marriage is a good idea.

I know relationships + marriage take a huge amount of work. But it seems that even the best husbands get ditched and taken to the cleaners. I've read so many stories of good husbands getting fucked by the courts and falling into depression; I've seen it firsthand with two uncles, three cousins, and two close friends. All good men who were 100% faithful and hardworking husbands.

Marriage - I may just have to say no.

Divorced men, please comment.

Updates

+1 y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlvuatQH12E

I know this is staged. But it seems like there's women who actually act like this out there - I'll be happier single.

[Exmorted]

It has always been extremely dangerous for men to commit, which is one of the reason so many men has issues with doing so.
There are more than one reason, but this is a major one.

When a couple splits up, in (as you said) 97% of cases, the man has to pay alimony, which no one fucking wants. To pay money to someone you don't love anymore because it's written on a paper? fuck that. Men don't have any protections going into marriage and we all know what can happen if you get divorced, the woman gets half your stuff and you're legally bound to pay her afterwards.

You'll in 84% of cases lose custody to your children, which means that if they're under 18 you also have to pay child support until they are. In many cases, a woman can also just nag at a judge and effectively prohibit a man from seeing his children while he still has to pay for them.

plus, Divorce makes men 40% more likely to commit suicide.

It's all a big shitfest. I can understand the idea of "sealing the deal" with the person you love although I'm personally opposed to marriage, I can still see the symbolism behind it. However the issue comes when you're inviting the state into your private affairs. I can't think of any risks there are for women regarding marriage, because they have these benefits of "if I get divorced, I'll get money" and "Laws are made to give me default custody" and so on, whereas a woman has to violently abuse children for the father to even be considered better at caregiving.

I'm extremely opposed to marriage for the reasons stated, and a few more. But I'll leave you with a question if this thus far has been unconvincing...

If you went skydiving and you were told that 2/3 parachutes didn't open... would you jump?

[bostonceltics10391]

Spot on. Numbers don't lie. Neither do the once-married blokes that are battling depression and alcoholism that I am close with. It seems like marriage is an easy way out for women to win free money, and there's many, many evil women out there who will do this without batting an eye.

I'm sure there's millions (possibly more than half) of women who will NOT do this. However, all it takes is a few headlines of women royally screwing over men in divorce and marriage quickly loses its appeal.

[Exmorted]

Of course, there are women who aren't such cunts, who realize the absurdity of it all and will just accept the alimony and child support but then give the money back to the man under the table because she doesn't need it, but you never know what you're getting into, it's such a gamble and the risk isn't mutual. So girls, if you're listening, this is why men have commitment issues.

[oldanddecrepid]

You do have to be careful these days! If you have a lot of assets prior to the marriage then you can get them outlined as hands off in the prenup.

She is only entitled to half of what you have during the course of the marriage. If you have a million bucks in investments/properties etc., prior to the marriage your lawyer just has to outline that and she is not entitled to it.

However, if you make money off of investments during the marriage, then she is entitled to 50 % of those gains, which is rightly so! After all she is contributing during that period.

If she keeps the house then you are entitled to half if you are leaving. It used to be all about who cheated on who, but it became so ridiculous it was tying up the courts. Now assets are split down the middle.

The only way she can pick your pocket afterwards is for child support. If she has the kids most of the time because your dead beat dad, then it comes out of your pocket. If the man takes his kids like he is suppose to, then you owe her squat. The only other thing would be if she decides that you need to keep her in the lifestyle into which she has become accustomed to, then you may have to pay until she finds a job or goes back to school (if she was a stay at home mom).

[bostonceltics10391]

I always assume that if I get married I WILL get divorced at least once.

Yeah, custody battles get messy. I don't want kids anyway, so I really hope to not deal with that shit.

Aren't there still infidelity clauses in prenups? That has to be taken into account during divorce, doesn't it? (assuming cheating has occurred). Would it still be 50/50 asset split?

I have a question about alimony too - do spouses abuse it ever? Like they keep saying they're job searching, trying to get back to school, etc. but just swallowing your money and buying daiquiris while doing nothing otherwise? I may as well just throw my wallet into a black hole. That is what I DO NOT want. Hopefully there's a way to keep track of the money. If not, well, fuck.

[oldanddecrepid]

There can be infidelity clauses, but they don't mean much these days. As far as I know they did away with that shit awhile ago, to difficult to prove in most cases. Courts just do the 50/50 rule so they don't have to deal with messy divorce settlements anymore.

If you get married just be sure she has a job, if she has been working and brings in her own cash, then you don't have to pay anything to her. It is just if she does not have a job or is going to school. If there are not kids then paying alimony decreases considerably.

[vonasaurus]

sure, stats don't lie. but the statement should read as: the person who gets cheated on initiates the divorce.

in all of the divorces i've witnessed over the years (and there are many), the women initiated only because their husbands cheated on them. in the exception to that rule, the wife cheated and the husband initiated the divorce proceedings.

my boyfriend still believes in marriage, and he's talked me into it. but a prenup just makes sense for both genders- if he didn't want one, i'd be concerned.

"but why, von? you're a girl. that means you get half his shit, right?"

first of all, that's sexist. and, second, i don't plan on getting a divorce. but, as with everything we do to protect ourselves (insurance, a savings account, etc.), it's better to have it and not need it, than the other way around.

also, i'm a writer, and i had an ex who threatened to take everything i had if i ever published anything. we were common-law for 7 years, though never married... thank goodness, because, i'd have had to support his lazy ass until the end of time. as if!

[bostonceltics10391]

Thank god for people like you who still view marriage the way it's supposed to be.
I think the grounds for the particular divorces you witnessed are very fair - zero tolerance for cheating, men and women alike.

But in this day and age, there are many "irreconcilable differences" divorces, which usually translates to "I'm bored". The ones that happened to my family and friends happened because their wives were bored and they cheated.

' "but why, von? you're a girl. that means you get half his shit, right?" ' When these ex-wives hung out with their girlfriends, this is the kind of stuff they would say to each other. Peer pressuring women into divorce because they can "win stuff" is an actual thing, and is very toxic.

I'm watching my once-married family and friends get bled dry simply for being "not fun enough" yet otherwise perfect husbands. I don't think this is fair, and divorces like this happen quite often.

[bostonceltics10391]

Sorry, character limit. Also wanted to say it's good that you dodged a bullet with your ex. And if you and your boyfriend get married, I wish you two the best. Lots of people don't take marriage as seriously as it should be, and you seem like the kind of person who does see marriage as sacred.

[vonasaurus]

thank you, and very well-said.

i agree that most people these days simply aren't willing to put in the work to make their marriage, well, work. this is an age of instant gratification, and we (as a species) are more connected to the internet than to each other. we upgrade on a whim to something shinier and newer, even though what we already have would have sufficed, with just a bit of tlc.

(i work in telecom, and it has done nothing for my opinion of people in general)

until i met the guy i'm with now, i had no intention of getting married. not because i'm commitmentphobic, but because i learned at a very young age that a ring on your finger will not make someone loyal to you. but, even without the added stipulation of a ring, i've always been very much a one-man woman and fiercely loyal. cheating is an absolute deal-breaker for me, as i hope it would be for everyone else, regardless of gender.

thanks for your input!

[FakeName123]

And every person cheating needs a person they can cheat with. Women cheat as much as men. You might just have seen the wrong side of the stick.

[Anonymous]

These numbers also don't include the number of men that cheated, treated their wives as shit, abused them or of its is money how the man started to letting out his frustrations on the wife. A man will cheat all day and still not leave his wife. Men want their cake and eat it too. Women realize their are more options out their so leave. Plus, in this day and age women are making more money and have better jobs. Less white men have corporate jobs in the last 20 Yeats than ever before. More women start up businesses than men and they are successful. In 2016, women ha e more to loose fact is she doesn't need marriage or a relationship and more and more women are realizing they have the ball in their court now,

[bostonceltics10391]

Touching up on some of your points:
Cheating is about equal among the sexes, possibly even more for women:
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...st-better-lying-it.html

Yes, there are men that disgustingly mistreat women. But let's not forget:
www.medicaldaily.com/domestic-violence-against-men-women-more-likely-be-intimate-terrorists-controlling-behavior-290662

You mention that women are advancing in the job industry, and that women have more power and control over their own lives. This is all true, and I think it's great for society that equality is making its stride. However, if things are so equal, why is divorce still so traditionalist, i. e. women are assumed better caretakers and be financially supported by the man (alimony), and why do men generally have to suffer and lose more in divorce?

You are against men having their cake and eating it too. Women shouldn't be able to either (i. e. benefit from equality yet still enjoy traditionalism that favors women)

[Opinion Owner]

Of course women are naturally better care takers, you can thank evolution for that. Many men can have their children but let's not act like they all do. Moat of grew up with our mother's as THE parent. While our fathers wanted not to acknowledge us or felt like we where a burden. Most custody goes to both parents equally unless the children or parent don't want it so. Everyone seems to forget they ask the kids who they want to go to. now, there are cases or women being sour pusses and keeping her kids from her but let's not act like that half or even a 6th of women. Is cheating equal among the sexes.. no. Why? Women settle with their spouse when married. Why would she go out of her way to settle just to cheat? Plus women out so much energy in marriages that to us ita pointless to cheat not the guys who hit on us each haven't made cheating cross our minds but it isn't workstations relationship. But of course women cheat but it's not equal at all. Keep in mind a man can cheat but

[Opinion Owner]

It's excused cause he is a man. When a woman cheats she is a whore. their are many people who don't plan on getting married just to divorce but you just need to learn how to pick them not cause she is hot and the sex is good.

[Cluelessguy]

I'm guessing you are one of those unattractive women who want to destroy traditional marriage. Guys don't care about how much a woman makes, they just want an attractive wife who helps him, and in return he provides for them.

Feminists created no fault divorce to make it more risky to marry traditional women so men would decide to marry ugly and/or bossy career women, which is a lower financial risk. The problem is the vast majority of men are miserable in this arrangement. Attractive traditional women will not be able to get the men they want either because it is too risky to marry a stay at home mother/wife.

In the end there will be less marriages and more miserable people thanks to the laws that ugly feminist women have pushed on us.

[This_is_my_username]

Don't get married problem solved.

[bostonceltics10391]

That's looking like a good plan for now, unless someone can convince me otherwise.

[This_is_my_username]

Lool i am on the same boat. Marriage does not hold the same meaning anymore these days. Ugh, so sad.

[Youvella13]

Agrees!!!

[This_is_my_username]

@Youvella13 Right!

[serious]

@This_is_my_username

Good suggestion!

[This_is_my_username]

@serious Thank you! glad you agree.

[serious]

@This_is_my_username

That's ok, and I agreed with you for two reasons:

1. Just like you I also never want to get married.

2. I really found your suggestion logically correct!..

You're welcome.

[This_is_my_username]

Thank you for MHO!! :)

[NotTheFBI]

COLD TRUTH: Yes... hell yes!!!
If I were to lie I'd say: Nah, that's just numbers go forth bravely and Marry her right away.

Society (using the USA as an example) from the stand point of a man has fucked us ROYALY when it comes to marriage/divorce. No matter how it ends the guy 99% of the time looses. So obviously more men tend to not want to get married, hell even I'm starting to think that marriage may not be the wisest choice in this screwed up 'modern society' and the way they treat men when it comes to divorce. Which brings me to another thing, why the hell do people opt for divorce way more than just trying to solve their marital problems? Like WTF, doesn't anyone communicate like adults anymore? Geez!! >.<

[bostonceltics10391]

Agreed. We all have smartphones, we can text, we can even talk to people in fucking space - but somehow we have trouble talking to each other face-to-face on Planet Earth.

Cheating/quick divorce is such a cowardly way to go about marital problems. This happened to my divorced relatives - communication issues that led to the wives having affairs.

My own mother cheated on my Dad just because she was bored (because he was slaving away at work, 13 hours per day and coming home bent over and exhausted every day for like 10 years) My mom was like DIVORCE and my Dad somehow forgave her, and talked her into staying together for me and my brother. Until she cheated again, and then they got divorced for good. But by this time both of us (me and brother) were already living on our own.

What the actual fuck.

[truthhammer]

NEW HARVARD STUDY

divorce rates are actually around 25 percet for 1st time marriages (between childless couples)

80 percent are happy in their marriages.

learn about yourself and really learn to be honest with yourself and find someone with the same ideology and life values as you. these are the drviiging force that shape your lives and if its too different form your lover, problems happen down the road.

and dont fuck your heart up by making poor choices... getting hurt all the time cause yuo too weak, living poorly ruiing your self elseteen etc.

two similar strong people meet and make that happy life.

[bostonceltics10391]

Link to the study, please? Sounds interesting, I want to read it.

I'll take your advice on soul-searching and soulmate searching. Hopefully it does me well in the future.

[truthhammer]

sorry it was by a hardvard educated individual.

www1.cbn.com/.../Divorce-Shocker-Most-Marriages-Do-Make-It

[justbanANNAz]

you can choose to look at statistics, or u can choose to love her endlessly. take your pick.

[bostonceltics10391]

See, I really want to be optimistic like you and just believe in true love. However, that happened to me three times in the past when I thought I had love, but it ended with her cheating. The fact that so much cheating has happened to me, my friends, and my family makes me a bit unsure about taking that chance with marriage when there's so much more to lose.

Honestly it's not marriage that scares me - it's the ease of divorce and the possibility that my life can end up in shambles in a short time.

Hopefully there's still people out there who take marriage as seriously as it should be. If there are, I hope to cross paths with one of them.

[justbanANNAz]

ever considered why u might have ended up with those women rather than a loyal one? not saying it's ur fault, but there's clearly a reason as to why they cheated.

you have nothing to lose. you simply learn and move on. if you keep ur eyes out for a woman who can love u, and a woman who can be satisfied ONLY by you, then i'd say ur in with a good chance.

the ease of divorce only comes when the couple make it easy, so i never take that as an excuse. if a divorce happens, it's because they're a mismatch or they didn't fight hard enough for their love.

[bostonceltics10391]

I guess I dated too young and expected too much while they didn't. You make a lot of good points, thanks for your insight.

[justbanANNAz]

that's okay. the experience will come in handy for u. no worries man.

[Exmorted]

No, you literally can't. You can not choose your emotions just like that. If she cheats on you, some people would not be able to get over that. If she tries to murder you or mistreats your child, if she neglects you or abuses you, some, if not most people would not be able to get over that.

You can't just choose to love someone, you're not in control of that. If you lose interest, you lose interest.

Look at it like skydiving.

If you knew that 2/3 parachutes didn't open... would you jump?

[justbanANNAz]

@Exmorted completely misinterpreted what i said. I'm not asking him to pick his emotions. I'm asking him to work on already existent emotions harder.

[Exmorted]

You still cannot do that.
Emotions are out of your control. you cannot make them appear nor disappear, just as you cannot intentionally and deliberately make them stronger nor weaker.

Already existing emotions can be nurtured, true, but there's nothing you can do if they start fading away.

[justbanANNAz]

@Exmorted to each their own. i still stand by my opinion.

[GingerGuy]

You can love her endlessly and not get married.

[justbanANNAz]

@GingerGuy sure he can, but if he's asking about marriage, he obviously hasn't lost all hope.

[BaldwinIV]

I am newly married. I think it is worth it, only if the girl is worth it and was raised with very strong family values.

Many of these divorcees got "bored" easily, don't want kids, don't want to take care of their kids when they have them.

Marriage and children go together. Raising a healthy family is the point of marriage.

[bostonceltics10391]

Good luck. It all boils down to morals and integrity, two things that modern society severely lacks.

[BaldwinIV]

Yes my wife was raised in a very christian household with Lebanese parents lol
we will be ok i think

[findingdreamland-1]

Fortunately life is much more than a statistic. You do your thing and be the person you want to marry. See what happens. Finding the right person is a Magic. And marrying with them is a gift. Imagine you gonna spend your life with your best friend your soulmate. It is a heaven, man.

[Queen_naki5]

Marriage for poor men isn't risky. If anything, men who marry well-off women benefit. It's not the norm, but the men in my family earn a lot less than the women and actually greatly benefit from having a well-paid wife who cares for them and are humble bread winners. These "statistics" don't apply to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Best steer clear of it unless you're signing a prenup or two.
I mean I wish there was some sort of redeeming quality, like the cheating thing girls on gag brought up before me. But hey, today women cheat equally or more often than men. I could pull a study or two on that but it has been dragged up enough times already.

So yes, if you're a man it is probably a bit stupid to marry without some sort of protection going into it.

[bostonceltics10391]

I think I posted a link on someone else's comment saying that women cheat MORE than men and are better liars about it. Somewhere else I read women cheat for emotional reasons, and this can lead them to fall out of love with their husbands. Can you fucking imagine the love of your life just walking out on you like that. And winning a divorce case. Not sure how often it happens, but even if it's happened once, that means it's a possibility. And I do not want to play that game.

Prenups or no marriage at all. Other people even suggest DNA testing your kid, because there are women who get pregnant by other guys and pass off the child as the husband's (paternity fraud).

What an insane world we live in.

[Woodyyyy]

Yeah it is. Need a prenup.

Also, women can cheat (and be proven in a court of law) and still win in court. They just practically hold all the cards.

[bostonceltics10391]

So fucked up. The gender bias is insane. If men did the same thing, they'd get screwed royally (more than they already do). Women have too much power these days - what happened to equality?

[Redstang88]

Hell yeah it is.
I can't imagine why a guy would even consider getting married without a prenup.

[bostonceltics10391]

Or get married at all.

[skeptic007]

my advice don't get married
women are not worth it today

[bostonceltics10391]

That seems to be the most popular piece of advice coming from married, divorced, and non-married men these days.

[skeptic007]

its not so much statistics its the way women think and believe
they have a fucked up mindset

[Anonymous]

I remember reading about this one guy who could predict with about a 92% accuracy of whether or not a couple would stay together or end up getting divorced based on their behavior towards each other as newlyweds. So, I really don't see it as a 50/50 thing. You just got to try not to rush into things and make sure to get some outside perspective before going through with it. By taking extra precautions you can raise your own personal statistic for a successful marriage.

[bostonceltics10391]

Precautions - yes, for sure. If I do decide to do marriage, I will choose carefully.

If there's one too many precautions and risks, then I may have to just say to hell with it.

[aliceinwonderland69]

So men dump women but leave it to women to sort out the paperwork.
"I'm not saying that all married women are heartless monsters who will ruin a man's life."
Hahahahahaha!
Are you sure?

[bostonceltics10391]

I don't hate women. I hate the way divorce courts are biased in favor of women. There are enough miserable divorced men out there to send out a message that marriage is not worth it these days for men. Divorce rates are more than 50% - would you want to play Russian Roulette with 3 bullets in the cylinder? I don't like those odds.

[Applefan1]

Yes, it is. Way too risky. Most women are not worth marring anyway because of their sexist bitter misandrist attitude towards men.

[truthhammer]

they are not. pretty chicsk get the sense being rpetty is enough when it doesn't do shit a lot of times in long term but prolong pain

[Applefan1]

@truthhammer most women act so entitled these days, they act like women are better than men and they also treat men like total shit and then take no responsibility for it.

[truthhammer]

right?

i dont put up with that shit so much. i m takin her on a date, paying for her food, trying to be genuine and fun but if she thinks its because she deserves free shit or were here as atms not humans, she's getting kicked to the curb quick.

these pretty chisk with no substance ususalyl can't even support themselevs. they are BUMS and walk a thin line for being prostitutes and leeches.

[truthhammer]

thats because men with poor self esteem dont walk away when they need to. giving women too much elusional power.

they meet a good guy with a strong back theyd get ditched

[Applefan1]

Yes, I don't put up with women using me like that either or treating me badly. I kick them to the kerb as well. So many men don't have the balls to stand up for themselves but I do.

[bostonceltics10391]

After talking with my divorced relatives/friends, they've given me a lot of advice, sometimes conflicting. It's probably their emotional roller coaster that's making them a bit loopy.
LADIES - these are not my thoughts. This is simply what I've been told and do not necessarily agree with:

1. Don't get involved at all. Don't give these kinds of trifling women to chance to even fuck with your money or your life. Even though not all women are like this, too many are, and it's best to be risk averse and avoid them altogether.

2. Find a woman who is from another country where companionship is still respected like religion. Or find a religious girl.

3. Find a woman who knows the value of hard work, has a good relationship with her father, and isn't a spoiled rich girl who is handed everything - it's easier to tell than you think.

I really hope I can find #2 and/or #3. If not, I can learn to settle for #1 and be happy on my own.

[Applefan1]

I agree with this. Also this is what I love about Trump, he has the balls to put women in their place.

[bostonceltics10391]

Some of my favorite people to listen to on this topic are Tom Leykis, Milo Yiannapoulos, Christina Hoff Sommers, and Helen Smith. They don't sugarcoat anything. Yes, misogyny historically has been and still to this day is a big problem (disgusting rap lyrics, kitchen jokes, Robin Thicke, etc.) . But modern misandry (calling all women princesses while calling all men dogs, male tears, #killallmen, etc.) isn't exactly the answer either.

I feel like I could ask a completely different GAG question just on this topic of modern misandry lol.

[Applefan1]

I love Helen Smith. She tells it how it is. Says what women really do. Bitter misandrist women are a big problem. There is a lot of it on GAG as well. However, women would not admit this.

[Phoenix98]

For some men maybe but not for me I'd rather take that risk and damn the statistics about half the time they're completely meaningless anyway.

[GingerGuy]

Here here! I'm not divorced but I agree 100% and just pointed out these very things on another question about why a guy would not want to marry.

[GingerGuy]

100% for prenups to and I think if women "truly loved us" they wouldn't think twice about signing one either.

[Iamathinker]

I don't know about the answer to your exact question, but damn those statistics are scary... maybe that's why my husband hasn't divorced me yet.

[bostonceltics10391]

Lots of people have said absolutely "yes" to my question. But at the same time, when I asked this question outside of GAG, I've gotten an answer more along the lines of, "Marriage is NOT risky and it's TOTALLY worth it - if you can find the right girl/guy (girl in my case), which is the hard part. Otherwise..."

It's kind of like being told yes and no at the same time.

[serious]

Yes, I think you are right, but then I always believed that marriage for men has always been risky.

[John_Doesnt]

Yes it is way too risky. Women are more likely to cheat once they get married.

[bostonceltics10391]

And somehow men are painted as the cheating pigs. I'm sure there's honest women and wives out there, but they are hard to find.

[John_Doesnt]

Which is why I think it's better to just move in with her and have that be the end of the legal bind. Marriage sucks.

[bostonceltics10391]

But I heard that there's cohabitation laws - the court can still weasel it's way into your home and treat your cohabitation arrangement like a marriage. I think this happens in California and maybe a few other states.

Ugh. Why.

[candyaurora]

These laws exist only in the US i presume? Not where I live.

[bostonceltics10391]

Looks like I have to move :P

[takumii]

Just don't marry a slut/man whore and you'd be alright. Having said that, good luck finding a genuine non-slut /good guy.