Why nice guys don't get the girl

[dudegrt09]

Hey GaGers,

As my first myTake I'll be discussing something which for ages has been considered as an universal truth, that nice guys finish last (that is if they ever get to reach the finish line). I have observed that some members of GaG community complain that women do not want nice guys, that they always "friendzone" the nice guys, that women love jerks who treat them badly, the list goes on. But the biggest mistake many such frustrated guys make is that they mistake nice guys to be push overs. So without further ado I will come to the mistakes that these so called "nice guys" make.

1. Nice guys always put others' needs before their own

Nice guys generally feel obligated to put others before themselves. In the process they become afraid of expressing their own desires and needs. They will easily give their seat to someone else on a subway train, in public gatherings, or in any other public place if asked to do so (although it is okay if you vacate your place for someone truly in need i.e. elderly or a pregnant lady), they are willing to go miles, even if it is inconvinient for them, just to please the girl of their dreams, they do whatever their parents want them to do no matter whether they themselves like it or not and so on. In short they are not willing to do what they actually want, so that they could please others. In this process they become apologetic wussies who always seek approval from others.

Advise for the nice guys: Stop being a pushover, express more frequently what you want from life and expect from others. Be considerate towards others, but not at the cost of your own freedom, needs and desires.

2. Nice guys ALWAYS agree with what woman of their dreams/crush/love interest says or do.

You want the girl that you like to like you back. If you're going to agree with everything she says she'll be pleased with you and give you her approval right? WRONG. There must be many things on which you will both agree. But when you clearly have a dissenting opinion from hers, you have to express that dissenting view. By respectfully disagreeing with her you prove that you are not a pushover. More important than that you show a quality which is considered very attractive by women as well as men and that is Honesty.

Advise for the nice guys: Don't be a yes man. Be honest with her, and speak what's on your mind.

3. Nice guys do or plan a date considering what their crush/love interest will consider fun.

Nice guy plan a date on basis of solely her interests. Why not instead plan a date at a place where both of you can have fun, on basis of your common interests.

Advise to the nice guys: Show your fun side to her. She'll be more happy to see you enjoy the moments that you're spending with her instead of being a nervous wreck.

4. Nice guys are not afraid to show their emotions.

This point may be most controversial. Nice guys think that showing emotions in early stages of knowing the girl shows that you are not afraid of being open with her. However this can in many cases backfire on you because she'll think that since you're being so impulsive in the early stages of knowing her, you might turn out to be even more emotionally unstable as she'll get to know you. Now consoling you all the time in a relationship is not something that she'll consider fun. This will scare her off.

Advise to the nice guys: Be in control of your emotions. As you two will get to know each other more and develop a level of comfort, you can become more open in expressing your emotions.

So in conclusion guys, you don't have to do all of the above things in order to qualify as a "nice guy". These are some common misconceptions regarding nice guys. Be nice to everyone, embrace the concept of love and respect others but don't forget to be assertive, honest, fun and in control of your emotions on the way.

Disclaimer: I'm not a dating guru or relationship specialist. Everything that is there in this Take is my opinion based solely on my observations which I have gathered through my own experiences and inputs that I have received from friends who are satisfied with their love lives.

[WordSmithing]

I am a firm believer that the whole nice person thing is a teenage drama. As an adult being the "nice guy" is like walking around with a golden ticket. Women and men of a sound mind seek out a proper companion that will treat them with respect. More often than not the folks claiming to be "too nice" are socially inept and have issues connecting with members of the opposite sex. This in itself has nothing to do with how kind these people are, it is a different issue all together.

So being "nice" at any stage in life really, is not a crutch. Having emotional baggage, being too overburdening of having such an immense level of desperation that you are willing to say yes to anything... This all has to do with being awkward. I've always loathed these discussions because myself, and my nice guy friends, are all doing perfectly fine in romance. However my nice friends that also play magic cards, or too many video games, or watch anime too frequently etc. have a different approach to human interaction

While these abnormal friends are still incredibly kind and considerate, there is also the added blend of social anxiety, awkwardness and a general lack of societal integration.

All that said, I am not disagreeing with the take! This all still holds true, especially the dramatic outpouring of emotions at an early stage. Despite progressive gender roles in modern society, men are still expected to be... well, men! Good take. I think that "human interaction" should be a credit taken in high school, along with various life oriented classes to better arm people for what matters most. Dating advice in 9th grade? That would have been fantastic hahah

[aamy811]

This right here! ^^^^

[aamy811]

Oh and by the way I like your beard

[WordSmithing]

Thanks and thank you @aamy811 !!! For both the feedback and the very lovely compliment, WHICH definitely made my morning.

[emilyg25]

It is a pretty sweet beard.
And HA! That magic cards comment made me laugh. True. So very true.

[dudegrt09]

thank you... glad that you liked the take.

[Bluemax]

You should have written this take, WordSmithing.

I believe you are spot on about the social ineptness. Like yourself, I have plenty of guys who are very good men and who are doing just fine romantically. However, so many commenters here seem to want to attribute the niceness of these socially inept guys as nefarious or manipulative. In most cases, I don't think that's true. They're just either physically unattractive or socially inept.

[MickyMouse1231]

The girls I know don't have a problem with nice guys. The problem is with the guys that say they're "nice guys" and that's why they don't the girl. Typically the self proclaimed nice guys are total dicks that have a sense of entitlement and that's why they get nowhere. Girls don't want a guy that acts nice because he feels like he has to in order to win her over. Girls want a guy that they can love for being themselves. Why would anyone want to be with someone who is living a life that is not true to who they are?

[Jimrat86]

If only there was a way to put them to the test in order to see if they actually are nice people

[MickyMouse1231]

That would save people a lot of trouble lol Guys and girls xP

[foxsquirrell]

I think you have a point in the end especially.

[MickyMouse1231]

Thank you. I just personally don't see the appeal in loving someone for a mask that they threw on to win you. I want something real. If someone is acting different ways to different people to be a people pleaser, I would never be able to say I love that person. I would have to say I love the specific personality they chose to show me.

[MickyMouse1231]

@foxsquirrell

[Longblackveil]

Very good take! This is basically a longer more fleshed out and detailed version of some advice I gave on here to someone the other day. I agree with every point you made

I think that people who are nice guys are just nice guys, it's part of their personality and can't REALLY be changed. (I'm one of these people) BUT if you follow the advice you gave, you'll find not only more success with women, but in general succes in life, in work etc.

I think most of us nice guys are generally predisposed to go with the flow, it has to be a constant battle to fight against that current and make sure you look out for number one. If you dont, you'll be perceived as a pushover, and once that happens, it's over. Once your perceived as a pushover, it sticks. People pick up on your weakness and take advantage of it.

I think you did a good job in pointing out the things that the typical nice guy needs to work on WITHOUT telling him that he needs to be an asshole to get girls, because that's simply not how it works.

[Longblackveil]

In fact, I'd say this is the best my take so far on gag, I really hope some people will take it to heart

[dudegrt09]

thank you so much.. I had to put in quite some time into it and also a lot of insights but I hope it helps some people. I hope moderators also feel the same way as you and this take gets featured on the home page.

[Watermelonoma]

i agree with most of this. A lot of these guys believe that by being uber nice to a girl, they are basically building up "sex credits" with her, which after a few months, they can cash in on like some video game. i mean i understand the impulse, but its not exactly the way girls operate. Of coarse, some of these guys in their bitterness will read this and assume that you mean they have to be jerks. The real thing you need to be is yourself... as cliche as it sounds.

Think about this guys... when you are with your male friends, do you do half of the things that you do for your female crushes? I certainly don't ALWAYS put my friends needs ahead of my own. If they need something, but i just dont have the time to give it to them, they have to wait. If one of your guy friends does something retarded, do you tend to call him on it, or just let it slide. I definitely don't. When im planning a get together with on of my friends, do you only make plans to places your friend wants to go? I certainly don't.. not unless we went to my place of choosing some day before so its his turn now. Are you cautious with the emotions you show to your male friends? I believe most guys are. Only on special circumstances will i share certain emotions with a guy friend.

So when you think about it, a lot of these "nice guys" are like polar opposites with girls they are into, which is the WRONG way to go. Being nice doesn't turn a girl on. For the most part, almost everyone you run into in a day will be somewhat nice, so its nothing really special. Being your own man is what is attractive. Remember, girls long to be desired by guys who don't need them. So when you bend over backwards for a girl, you show that you need her more than she needs you, and that tends to be an insta-turn off. Anywho, great take... though i think it will be wasted on the portion of the GaG population it was meant for

[dudegrt09]

Yes you are quite to the point. Sometimes when you are trying to live by the rules of others you forget to 'be yourself'. So the age old advise of being ourselves that we've been getting for years is quite true when it comes to dating and relationships.

[SenNausicaa]

Some guys who call themselves 'Nice Guys' are not that nice. I dated a what I thought was a 'nice guy' after a terrible bad boy relationship. This nice guy was turned out to be more creepy and Normand Bates vibe after a while. I think some 'Nice Guys' play nice but can be passive aggressive and/or creepy when nice doesn't get them what they want. A true 'Nice Guy' that is at least decent looking usually gets nab up, married and with kids and rarely stays on the market long (and sometimes they have either the psycho girlfriend or literally the perfect woman even if he is just above average looking).

I also think some girls want a 'Nice Guy' cozy in their friend zone, and if you are chosen sucks to be you. The big brother they never had or just for ego boosting it doesn't matter, some girls just want it. I have two brothers and two male cousins who are enough to fill the guy friend need, so I don't feel the need to have a guy friend to friend zone.

Everytime 'just friends' with a guy happens it doesn't last, I tested it on both sides of the fence and they were fails all round. Only guy friends I can have are already in a relationship with a girl and/or I am not attracted too and I am more friends with the girlfriend of his or them as a couple, and even then I have had the married man make a pass at me, best case scenario is they are a couple and I am in a relationship, less issue.

I seem to attract bad boy types or guys who think they are nice guys, I want neither. I like mid row, but hell if I can find it. They end up being a relationship or married, or simply I am not attracted too. C'est la vie.

[dudegrt09]

Many of the so called 'nice guys' are actually manipulators. You seem to attracting that kind of guys I guess.

[SenNausicaa]

Yeah lucky me right, lol.

[Anonymous]

I've never been fond of "Bad boys," Give me a "Nice Guy" any day.

Luckily, I found mine, he's the perfect gentlemen with a backbone. He doesn't agree with everything that I say, but he respects me regardless, He's the go to guy if you need him, but he won't overextend himself in the process. He's more than a nice guy, He's a good man.

I do feel like your take is describing more of a "Pushover," not to say a pushover isn't nice, but being a "Nice Guy" doesn't necessarily mean being a pushover, at least in my eyes. Not all nice guys finish last either.

If you can't be yourself, if there's no mutual trust, respect, honestly, loyalty and acceptance, You are wasting your time. The right person would never expect you to compromise everything about yourself to make them happy and if you're putting on a façade to "get the girl" not only are you cheating yourself, you'll also be cheating the girl of your desires. So what if you find, you just don't "fit", find someone who does and you'll find something that's REAL. Personally, I'd rather be with someone that loves and wants me, for me, not some mask I'm projecting forward because, I think that's what they want. But maybe that's just me.

[dudegrt09]

I am not saying all nice guys are pushovers, but the ones that claim to be "nice guys and still not getting the girl" are most of the time pushovers or master manipulators.

[dudegrt09]

and yes what you said was the point of the take, that many guys do put on a facade to get the girl. The advise that is provided to the nice guys in my take is what actually they can do to be considered actual nice guys.

[Opinion Owner]

I absolutely agree with what your saying and the advice given, but I do think people need to understand that whether you're a pushover or a lying and manipulative "Nice Guy", ultimately the change has to come from within. Merely suggesting that those who find themselves in this situation take a little time to look at themselves in the mirror and do some soul searching along with actively trying to change their behavior. People can follow these steps to a T and still find themselves to falling back into old habits because, they failed to take the time to make a real change within themselves and their mindset. Enjoyed your take by the way :)

[9mfeo]

In my experience, the guys that complain about being too nice aren't actually nice people at all. They believe that one compliment should get them 85 blow jobs and one anal experiment (or something equally ridiculous). They never make their intentions known but get SO ANGRY when their feelings aren't shared. Newsflash: if you treat her like a friend, say on many occasions that you're "just friends" and never reveal that you feel differently about her - guess what: she'll think you're friends.

In the above situation, the dude is the asshole. I don't care. You cannot hold people emotionally hostage for not being up front with your feelings.

[wildchild1]

I couldn't agree more with this!

[dudegrt09]

yes many of these guys are manipulators who expect something in return of the facade they put on of being nice. But it is not necessary that these guys are all assholes. Some of them have been raised in such manner that they become pushovers and overly emotional.

[dudegrt09]

I mean they have been seeking approval for so many years from others that it becomes their way of life.

[9mfeo]

I'm sorry, bro, but I'm not going to forgive bad behaviour when I'm encountered with it because someone has had a crappy life. We all have our own crap - you don't get to hold me emotionally hostage over yours.

[dudegrt09]

It's not like I'm defending them or anything, in fact many of these 'nice guys' get annoying cause they expect so much for complimenting a woman. Some of them could be master manipulators also. What you said is exactly the reason why many of these so called nice guys fail with women.

[JohnBhoy94]

I'm going to agree with every single point made in this take.

You know I was like @Nathand... bitter and thought the world owed me something because I was "nice".

Being "Nice" is a good thing in everything apart from dating.

If any girl says "Aww you're such a nice guy", you're in the friendzone.

Whenever I've said "You're such a nice girl" it's with sarcastic undertones... I usually say it to make someone happy.

For point #4 I'd like to add that women want a man. Sure men can show emotion, but what women really don't want is a guy who comes across as more feminine than masculine.

Your GF/date is not your mother, she's not someone you go to expect consolidation... to your GF/date, you're her mountain - someone she can come to when things are going bad for her.

[Nathand]

WOW!!!

[dudegrt09]

If you're being called "nice guy" or "really sweet guy" by the girl you can be sure 90% of the time that something is wrong. The kind of nice guy that people try to be can be detrimental for them not only in the dating world but also in every other area of life.

[aliceinrealworld01]

I don't think this is necessarily true! Genuinely nice guys NEVER finish last. In my experience, the guys who say 'I'm such a nice guy' are actually the biggest and most selfish assholes. Usually their niceness is a way to mask their insecurity and we all know that confidence (real confidence not fakes) is the most attractive thing about a person. I'd rather have someone who is a little bit of a dick but at least he doesn't try to be something he's not. I like upfront people, people who pretend make me feel like they're hiding something. So there you have it, my view on 'nice guys' :D

[aliceinrealworld01]

*faked

[dudegrt09]

What you said is exactly the point of this take. You are willing to date a jerk cause he's honest and assertive and the "nice guys" who are trying their best to impress you think that you're only attracted to jerks. So I am advising these nice guys to be more honest with everyone, and not be afraid to think about themselves whenever they are trying to woo their girl.

[aliceinrealworld01]

you are twisting my words! I didn't say I would date a jerk, but that I prefer guys who don't pretend to be something they're not and who don't try to cover their real personality. Nobody is perfect and usually self proclaimed 'nice' guys are actually trying to hide something. There's a little bit of an asshole inside of everyone and when we try to suppress that side of us, it usually comes out in other ways later on. You can always tell when somebody is genuinely nice, there's an honest vibe about them and they don't try too hard to prove it to you how great or decent they are. People who complain how hard they have it because they're so kind or whatever are most of the time just delusional of how the rest of the world perceives them! Everybody needs to analyse their own behaviour objectively, are you really as selfless as you're trying to make yourself and everyone else believe you are? Telling lies to other people is a bad habit, but telling lies to yourself is detrimental to your sanity!

[Irish_cutie]

I don't mean to be that girl but not all girls like "bad boys"... I have dated nothing but nice guys and in the end they have all been the same: jealous, liars, or in huge need of a tampon.

I've dated one of the nicest guys in the world but even though he was the sweetest nicest guy he was still a winey little bitch and needy.

I've dated a ton of amazing and nice guys and I will stand here to this day and defend them. But I learned I didn't need "a nice guy" I needed I guy that suited me.

I am now dating the perfect guy for me. So it's not really nice guys finish last it's girls need/ are trying to find the guy that patched them the most. And if they aren't than you have what we like to call "daddy issues" or "thirsty"

I loved your take but at the same time you have to take into consideration that "it's not all girls" just like we know "it's not all guys"

[dudegrt09]

Thank you... Glad you liked it. I guess I should have also included a caveat for many women in myTake, that those overly excessive nice men are not actually nice guys but instead they are master manipulators. You should always remember when judging a guy that "we can be nice, we can be really nice, but we can't be this nice".

[DocT1977]

Because nice guys are push overs that most often times won't stand up to a woman when needed. You don't have to be a badass to get a good woman. As a guy, Just don't be the one who wears the panties, and the woman in question will show a bit more respect and maybe a little desire.

[TheSkaFish]

@DocT1977 I've been researching this a while, and I've seen things like this come up and I relate it back to my own experiences. But when is it necessary to stand up to a woman? What would be an example?

For me, I have a hard time with this because I'm a go with the flow person a lot of the time. I have strong opinions on the things I like, strong opinions on the things I don't, and indifference to the rest. For example, I'd be okay with having a woman pick where we go to dinner or what we do on a date, because unless it's something I absolutely hate, it's not that important to me and certainly not something I feel like starting a fight over. Yet this makes me fall into the trap of being seen as a pushover, when really, it's that I only have strong opinions on a few things and that mostly, I just want to spend quality time with someone I like and I don't care where or what we are doing.

[DocT1977]

Sorry for the delayed answer. I don't come on here all that often. What I mean is hold women accountable. When a woman lies to you, Stands you up, or just flat out uses you by taking and never giving back, They need to be put back in their places. Same for any guy who does those things too. Any relationship that is really worthwhile is going to be centered on mutual respect. Any relationship that does not reflect that is something that you are going to want to run the other way from. So don't be afraid to draw the line.

[dudegrt09]

@DocT1977 you are quite to the point.

[Anonymous]

Also, a lot of nice guys invest energy into people that is disproportionate to their bond level. Some do it hoping to "trap" them into owing him something. Others out of getting too caught up in fantasy where they think they know someone, but it's a scenario in their head. They sometimes even deny reality when a girl is clearly not romantically interested (sleeping with other people, doesn't make time for him, has said no to dates) and keep on investing time and emotions into it. This ties him up for too long to meet a nice girl who WOULD like him and also burns him out. (Nice girls make these mistakes too).

[TheSkaFish]

Isn't the friend zone escapable though? Or if you don't want to call it that, then isn't it possible to change the way a girl sees you? I don't see why it can't be if you change your behavior, especially if you take a break from talking to her for a while.

[Opinion Owner]

Put it this way - you shouldn't tie up most of your time & energy in a situation with a low return on investment.

[PT1911]

But...

but...

I was nice! I did everything for her! I agreed with her! I complimented her! She should have sex with me! I'm not a jerk! I deserve the sex! I'm not some asshole that treats her bad, I'm a nice guy! I swear!!! *insert crying emoji because I have no idea what the fuck it actually is*

Disclaimer: This opinion was satire, most likely reflecting the opinion and just sheer stupidity of every self proclaimed "nice guy" who read this my take

[Nathand]

still waiting...

[PT1911]

@Nathand I love how you think I'll block you because of some dumbass goal you have :)

[Nathand]

I don't care... i still need you to block me.

[PT1911]

@Nathand lol the troll as just been trolled XD

[Nathand]

oooook then...

[dudegrt09]

I agree some of these "nice guys" are not even honest with themselves.

[tenchu11]

Good read, I think you can be nice just firm. I agree with the push over part. I think girls don't know what they want sometime day they want a nice guy but they really don't. Write us a book telling us what "I want a nice guy" means. I'm nice just not to girls I've been called a dick more than not.

[dudegrt09]

thanks!

[thecd1979]

Very good, I have my own take on this that you may want to read as well. It just all comes down to the "nice guy” being a pushover and too much of a puss to be his own man and do things like speak up when something is bothering him, when he doesn’t agree with something, or standing up for what he believes in, all out of fear of offending and running off his potential love interest. I realize now that insecurity and a lack of confidence are not sexy and an attractive qualities in a guy. I know because I used to be that guy that did those things when I was a younger man. I look back now and am ashamed of a lot of the ways I behaved back then. It’s unfortunate because most of these “nice guys” don’t want to hear their behaviors are the problem and what is driving the ladies away. I had to learn the hard way and unfortunately most guys like this are going to have to learn that way also.

[dudegrt09]

thank you, and you are right that many of these nice guys refuse to accept that they are not actually nice but just manipulators. I'll definitely check your take on this subject.

[dartmaul15]

regarding number 4.
it is actually PROVEN that girls and women of all ags are more attracted to a man who's initially more masculine and strong. It's a deep-rooted instinct to look for a strong man who can stand tall and protect them.
Show that side FIRST, then as she's getting comfortable with you, and knows you're strong, gradually open up to her.

Science (which i love, because it's right, wether you like it or not, and wether it's politically correct or not)

[Maddi2912]

I agree with some of this, particularly the "agreeing with everything we say" If you genuinely agree thats agree fine, but if you dont, say so and challenge us with your point of view!

[dudegrt09]

Yes honesty is one of the most important thing in any relationship.

[Anonymous]

Fantastic take! That first point is SOOOOO important! And not just for relationships with girls but for advancing your career too. You have to be very clear and honest about what you want and how you're going to get it. If you put everyone else's needs first you're very likely to end up with nothing.

[dudegrt09]

thank you! glad that you liked it.

[Opinion Owner]

I really did! You're most welcome!

[ThisDudeHere]

How would a girl react if I said I was a nice guy but I would never intend to agree with her all of the time and I would not put other's needs ahead of my own all of the time?

I mean I consider myself nice in the sense that I always try to help and I tried others with respect but if a girl thinks she's entitled to my attention or help then screw her, I'm outta there.

[dudegrt09]

The girl with definitely respect you more if you would respectfully disagree with her on something which you clearly don't like. Also in the first point the word Always should have been highlighted by me. You are supposed to selflessly help those who require it and you will have to make sacrifices in the relationship but you shouldn't always be the one who makes these sacrifices. It's you and her together in the relationship so when you do something for her expect some gratitude for it.

[dudegrt09]

*will definitely

[evenlift]

Except that such behaviours are what is considered moral by conventional morality. You have to throw away conventional morality.

People (especially many women) try to convince themselves that 'nice guys' aren't really nice, in other words that they aren't living up to the moral code. That is false. It is an attempt to rationalize. These nice guys are very consistently living up to the moral code. It is the moral code that is wrong.

[dudegrt09]

yes for some reason many of these nice guys who are adhering to this conventional morality come across as being very manipulative and in a way they are.

[Remonster]

But are people who put their own interests first necessarily immoral? I believe not.

[evenlift]

@dudegrt09 Well, the conventional morality of altruism is indeed manipulative.

@Remonster Indeed, selfishness is the true morality. As you imply, true selfishness means doing what is objectively in your self-interest. It doesn't mean doing whatever you feel like. True selfishness is against sacrificing others to oneself and sacrificing oneself to others.

[Phoenix98]

Lol I'm a gentleman and I've never had a problem getting the girl, in fact I rarely have to ever make an effort to -shrugs-. ( though I do enjoy making one )

Also If I have already commented on this then I apologize, but I can't remember if I had or not so I'm posting again if I haven't already.

[Remonster]

Meaning you probably aren't just a gentleman. You have manners but are also fun to be with. That's the difference.

[Phoenix98]

@Remonster I'm actually pretty solemn but I am laid back.

[Anonymous]

I agree with some of this, and it can also apply to "nice ladies" as well! I am a pushover, too sweet, etc. etc. I need to be more forward and less accommodating. Some day, I hope I can be...

[dudegrt09]

All you need to do is be more assertive and expressive about what you expect from others.

[Opinion Owner]

This is true. I just don't want to hurt anyone, so I try to please them. But end up getting my own feelings hurt.