First Date Expectations: The Liberated Woman's PoV

First Date Expectations: The Liberated Woman's PoV

With so much contempt for feminism these days, and what is expected on dates with women, it’s important to know that the first few dates are especially important to make your first impression a good one, regardless of your stance on equality.

You’ve asked a girl out, and she said yes! That's great, but now you’re worrying about how to present yourself, what to say, and the dreaded “who’s-going-to-pay” at the end of the night. You don’t want to be ripped off, but you also don’t want to upset your date.

This is mainly for men who want some idea of what a woman who thinks as an egalitarian may expect and appreciate on your first few dates, and what most women in general appreciate.

Before even going out, ask yourself honestly if you are willing to invite and pay for the evening as a treat to her, for agreeing to accept the pleasure of each other’s company. Know your budget and start out small. Coffee, drinks, or a light meal is favoured. A first and second date is usually just simple to talk and get to know each other, and usually only lasts a couple of hours. Don't splurge. If you absolutely cannot afford much, talk to her about it. “I’d love to do something with you, but being a student, I can’t do things other guys can right now. But I can get you a coffee and spend time with you down at the lake so we can talk.” You’d be surprised how many women would accept this, if not prefer it.

If you can pick her up to take her where you want to go, then arrange it. But a lot of women these days who favour some independence might even feel more comfortable to drive to meet you someplace in her own vehicle. Ask her what is easier for her to do. Women sometimes have their minds on fast-forward and wonder about unwanted good-night kisses or to protect the privacy of where they live. We all worry about people we don’t know. So don’t read too much in to things about how you’re going to get to your first-date destination.

Understand who is paying before your date even starts. If your date starts hinting that after drinks they want to head to the stadium to see if there are tickets left for a NHL game, you can decline. You can say, “Maybe another time, I want tonight to spend just talking to you and keeping things light.” But before all that, communication is the key to every good relationship, and if your first date starts out with games and trying to hide how you feel, you’re not out to a great start. Today, women understand that things can be expensive. You can make it as casual as you want at first by saying, “I want to take you out but are you okay with splitting things since this is our first time out together? I don’t want to make you uncomfortable thinking there’s expectations from me later on." What can a girl say to that? She will respect that you are taking things slow on the first date. Both of you will know at the end of the night if you’re worth spoiling each other next time.

Don’t be afraid of romance. Romance has nothing to do with equality or gender-approving on either side. Both men and women can show displays of affection or flirt and if your date is interested, these things will make them feel attractive. What does romance mean to you? It doesn’t always mean to buy flowers. It can mean anything your creative mind wants to think it means, and for women – the more creative and unpredictable you can be to charm them, the better.

Have some manners. Opening doors is something nice people do. As much as it’s intertwined with chivalry, today it has less to do with her being a woman and opening her own door. You’ve asked a woman out to impress her and hopefully get a second date. Being considerate for things like this will be noticed.

Compliment her. Guys often question if they should give a compliment because women have made miserable signs that compliments can seem unwanted. Yes – they can be if they guy giving them is not someone she wishes to spend time with. But not you. You're on your date now. She’s already agreed to be out with you and is now sitting across from you. Are you going to sit there treating her like one of the guys, or will you let her know you find her amazing and give her compliments such as, “I love the way you laugh,” or, “I love the way you think,” these are not full-blown come-ons but can still make her feel sweet.

Ask her questions. Sometimes people get lost in nervous chit chat and tend to fall on a safety net of conversation that involves only themselves. If you don’t ask her anything about her and let her talk, she’ll feel as if she doesn’t matter. Women find it more attractive that you seemed to care enough to ask. It shows that you do value who she is.

People who are interested in other people, are interesting to those people.

–Hugh Prather

Don’t talk about the ex. This goes for men and women. Your date wants to feel like the new special person in your life for the moment. As victimized as you might have felt from your last relationship, women don’t think, “Wow, poor guy, to think she didn’t work for over a year and took the dog when they broke up!” Instead, she’s thinking, “When is he going to get over her? He has brought her up five times.” And even more forgiving women will think, “I get that she’s a bitch, but when is tonight going to be about us?”

Don’t talk about your money. If you feel that you don’t know where you stand with your date when it comes to how much you make or what you spend your money on, then don’t make it an issue. Men that have been burned after being taken for a ride by women in the past are often the ones who guard their finances so jealously that even being asked a casual question like, “So what do you do for a living?” will seem like a threat, as if the woman has an agenda. Relax. It’s usually just a question, and for women it’s one more thing to get to know about you.

If etiquette does interest you, and you want to know why a guy walks on the side of traffic or why he pulls a chair out for a woman, there is a history to our etiquette here:

Amazing Origins 15 Etiquette Rules

Liberated women are not opposed to being treated nicely, and enjoy just as much attention to feel feminine and appreciated as any other woman. It’s okay to confide your concerns with today’s expectations. And since every woman is different, just learning where she stands is all you really need to know. It’s that sort of communication and respect, along with some good old fashioned attraction she has for you that will have her wanting that second date, and maybe more.


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What Guys Said 17

  • This is a matter of respect and decency, let me explain.

    Women and men have slightly different vulnerabilities or fears when it comers to dating. Women often worry that the man they are seeing might only be trying to use them for sex, or she might fear date rape for example. Men know this and as a result any decent man will not expect a woman to put out on the first date, he won't take her to dark secluded areas late at night for example. This is an expression of respect for her as a person, an effort to make her feel safe and build trust.

    A man will often have a similar vulnerability when it comes to paying on dates for women who may have no intention of actually getting to know him. Any decent women will insist she pay her own way without him even having to bring up the issue.

    It is socially wrong to call a woman a prude because she won't put out with any guy she decides to go on a date with but it is socially acceptable to call a man cheep because he won't pay for any women who decide to go on a date with him.

    Men are often treated as disposable and this is so common place that all to often it's invisible. The good news though is that expecting women to pay their own way on dates is an EXCELLENT!! way to filter out the trash, any women who has a problem being expected to pay her way on dates is NOT worth having in your life. Insisting that you be treated with decency, especially in the face of rejection from the opposite sex, takes a strong back bone but the end result is well worth the effort.

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  • Lmaoooo. It's just like 25 bucks yll, Wtf is up with that drawings lol Anyone who ask for it pay for it.

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  • I think this just proves my long held belief that men should never listen to women when it comes to dating advice - they just have no clue what's going on and their advice is often worse than no advice.

    Let me boil it down for you guys in three easy steps:
    1.) Always pay for first dates.
    2.) Always plan the first date and do only the things that you enjoy doing normally anyway.
    3.) Forget sex. If you are paying for dates just to get a girl into bed, it's cheaper to see a hooker. You're there to see if she's cool enough to invite into your life. Sex will happen when it happens.

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  • Okay, got it. Can I have my bj now?

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  • I don't think I want to date a liberated woman now, sounds more like an audition than a date.

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  • Haha not even the feminist know what they want out of a first date they've confused themselves so much that they don't know what to do if to be "empowered" or be "pampered" you see being "liberated" and "empowered" are ways for them to live as an individual but in relationships you have to be a little vulnerable and trust that person will be good that's why being pampered by the other person feels so good so just let it happen let the guy pay let him treat you nice buy you things carry you hug you it won't make you less of a women it will only make you more of a human.

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    • Every woman is different. That's why it's smart to know that the woman you *do* ask out to get your ducks in a row first. If she's not a feminist, and you're okay with what you both come up with for an arrangement, then fine. If she is a feminist, and you're okay with what you both come up with for an arrangement, then fine. Why make this so difficult? It's what first dates are for, so you can figure out if you even like the person's style or not.

  • Dam I was thinking about doing a my take but after seing all this flak I'd rather not. She's just giving her advice on what she beliefs it doesn't have to be your one and only truth.

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  • Lol at pretending "what you do for a living" is a way of getting to know you better. Any idiot knows it's so she know how much you make. Tell her you work as a custodian at a school and you'll see how quickly her interest in you flat lines.

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    • Then by all means please do try it. And then ask yourself why it is guys who really aren't making much money are still able to find themselves women.

  • Also, you do not speak for all "Liberated" (From their duties as women, that is) women, many would scoff and be disgusted at a man opening the door for them out of respect.

    Why i will never date a willful feminist (Many women call themselves feminists but have no idea what it actually means. If I educated her and she still wanted to remain a feminist, buh-bye.) and ESPECIALLY NEVER a woman's liber woman.

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  • "ask yourself honestly if you are willing to invite and pay for the evening as a treat to her, for agreeing to accept the pleasure of each other’s company."

    Your very first paragraph is about how guys should pay just for the fact she gave him company?

    "Equality"... My fucking arse...

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    • @Riggers, "The pleasure of your company" is a very old style of language that was (and still is) put on invitations and RSVP cards. To say it, and if you knew me better - I use saying like that as a writer because I love the history of language. But aside from all of that, asking someone to do something - the inviting part, the etiquette is to be prepared to pay, whether it's male to female, female to male, or between men and women friends. It's still a nice touch, and as I mentioned, if alternate arrangements are made between the two on how to come up with something fair, then fine, but to do it *before* the date happens is smart. Going out and getting to the end and realizing you actually were expected to pay because you did the asking can save a lot of confusion and bad feelings about the person and the date altogether.

  • There's nothing contentious about equality. Most people support the notion. The contempt for feminism isn't borne out of any distaste for equality, but rather all the other ideological baggage that comes with it, such as the constant threat narrative targeting men, as well as interfering with men having their issues heard.

    The important thing to take away from all this is that most people DO favor some notion of equality or egalitarianism, even if they do not favor feminism.

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  • I'm always leery of dating girls who identify themselves as "independent." They seem to have the most rules, and they tend to be the quickest to take offense at things, like everything is a possible affront to their independence.

    Deep down, I feel like these kinds of women only want relationships with guys who are willing to subjugate themselves entirely to make the girl happy. Independent girls usually are eager to tell anyone who'll listen that they have no problem walking away from a relationship that isn't *exactly* what they want.

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    • They usually end up forcing themselves to settle, because their ideal is impossible.

      They either end up dying alone and miserable, or dragging a poor man dumb enough to date them, down with her.

    • I absolutely agree. Watch out for any woman that calls herself independent or liberated. That is a huge red flag that she has issues with men. Those are the kinds of nut jobs that think men are so evil that we went around enslaving women for hundreds of years. Those kinds of women even get offended if the guy offers to push a grocery cart for them when it starts to get heavy. They can't surrender any control to a man, even control as small as pushing a shopping cart.

      The thing is even if these women find a guy willing to subjugate themselves entirely to make the girl happy, she loses respect for him, and as a result soon loses all attraction for him. Very few women can remain attracted to a man she can't respect, and no woman I know of can respect a guy that desperate to please her.

  • How about who ever does the asking out pays?

    Like seriously, you're treating that person to something, show some actual courtesy and pay for it.

    Though knowing me because I was raised a little more traditionally, I'd pay anyways if she asked me out.

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    • Though this is only a minor issue in the grand scheme of things.

      Anyway, I've had a girl pay for me before, took me by complete surprise.

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    • Well I never said I wasn't attracted to them. The thing is you don't always know someone really well, which is why you're going on a date with them in the first place.

      And more than once, i've encountered guys who were nice and pursued me for awhile before we went on a date and once we went on the date or two, they turned into a narcissistic control freak almost immediately. People are good at only showing you what they want you to see at first.

      So instead of putting myself in an awkward position and in order to prevent further issues, I just pay for myself and drive myself to wherever we go until I get to know someone better.

    • That's true Ozanne, some guys do have the impression that women only want their money or to use them and it's difficult to know the mind of everyone you go on a date with.

      I understand what PT1911 is saying but it's almost impossible to know someone or their intentions from a first date.

  • i am ready to pay for every date because i like her and respect her but if she is liking me or not is up to her. who open the door? who stands first can open it.
    i never give my priority to equality. i am always for being fair in the relation. if she is a good girl then she defiantly know that what is equality and what is not and always her wallet to spoil me and myself i try to spoil her.
    here love make scene :-)

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  • Dam just be yourself and be polite. Just be sure you have 10 OPEN ENDED questions you could ask her/him. As for guys well you are the guy and should have some idea of what the date will be. Decide before hand if you wanna oay or if your gonna split. femenism can't take away certian exspectations for males and females when it comes to dates. Ladies if he pays for a date that doesn't me you sleep with him or you shouldn't feel obligated to go in a second. Its either persons decision.

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    • What a perfect response and great idea (ten open-ended questions). Where were you when I was 18? LOL

    • Lol I don't know it just came to mind :)

  • A chick can pay for her own shit. This post seems sort of entitled.

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    • Hell she should pay for my shit and pander to MY ass.

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    • " it wouldn't be fair to whoever the date is that they be sprung on who was to pay when they didn't ask to be asked out in the first place"

      Yes, but she didn't have to agree, either.

      What is so insulting about everyone assuming they are going to pay for their own stuff until the relationship has reached a higher level? You know, like EVERY OTHER social interaction with EVERY OTHER combination of genders. Gays don't make assumptions about who should ask or pay. Lesbians don't look around for a guy to pay for their meals.

      What is so hard about that? What is so degrading about it? Why is it whining? Why is it so horrible to use a 2-for-1 card?

      Dammit, if a guy is cheap for not paying for HER, she is an outright hoarder if she is offended that she should have to pay for herself.

    • Interesting

  • I never do food or drinks for a first date anyways.

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    • Probably wise. I disliked alcohol on first dates only because I wanted to talk to the person as they are sober, not find they need to relax with drinks and possibly become loose cannons later on getting drunk.

What Girls Said 8

  • Why do people make things so complicated.. Great take.

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  • I like this take. Unfortunately though, nowadays, most of the time when you expect the man to open doors for you or let you walk in first, you get labeled high maintenance 😞 it seems like it's very rare for guys to have the good old fashion mannerism. Plus, about the budget thing is so true, I would actually prefer hotdogs from a good hotdog stand and walk on the beach or park than be in a stuffy restaurant where you have to whisper 😒

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    • How is that high maintance? Lol who ever says that is an idiot.

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    • See now that's just bad manners :/ I agree that some girls expect to be treated like a lady then act like a total prima donna, not saying thank you or even acknowledge the gesture. But not all of us are like that. Just like I said 'some' men, because I know it's not all. I've just been unlucky and have encountered those 'some' men. Now, how you feel when you open the door for your date and she doesn't bother with any form of acknowledgement is how I feel when my date walks in ahead of me and expects me to follow like a lap dog. It'd disappointing. Expecting/asking it doesn't matter, I do act like a lady but some men are just oblivious and I don't even bother to finish the date.

    • I agree that not all women are like that, I didn't wanna come across as generalizing every women cause even men don't say thank you, but we don't expect it, so even though they were disrespectful for not appreciating it, they never expected it.
      I've always preferred the old days when it comes to these kind of things, people didn't take everything for granted and we tried to make the night enjoyable for the other person. And I've only been in two dates, I never dated any of my first four gfs, and in the two dates I went, the girls didn't act like ladies, which was kinda disappointing since it's not what I'm looking for.
      Anyways, good luck finding a gentleman, trust me, we're out there :)

  • I agree that the etiquette is to be prepared to pay if you've asked someone to do something with you. This goes for men and women both. I have friends (girls and guys) who take it further and will pay for me if they've arranged an outing - and leave it to me to pay next time.

    On the other hand, I don't like the man getting the impression that, because I've allowed him to pay on the first date (because he asked), I expect him to do it every time. So I've been known to arrive at coffee dates early and buy my drink in advance...

    I agree that women aren't opposed to being treated nicely. But it puts me off if I sense that a man's only being nice to me in order to make an impression!

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    • I have done the same thing to avoid a man paying for me - show up at a pub and pay for my own beer or coffee. I also don't like getting picked up and driven around when I simply don't know them well enough. I get it if you're dating and you've established yourself as a couple, but people don't know if they're out with an axe-murderer or not, so when I was dating, part of finding my own way there was a safety issue.

      Finally!--someone who gets the etiquette of whoever asks pays. Even while on the date, there is nothing wrong with the woman saying, "I want to treat you next time" whether that means going out, or having the man over for dinner (both cost money to entertain). A date is an experience that shouldn't be revolving around money so much. You pay or you don't, but if you're caught up in attraction, a lot of that isn't even a factor anymore because you just can't wait to see the person again. :)

  • I really enjoyed this MyTake, I'm not sure what is so offensive about these tips to get to know another person. The dates she suggests are relatively low key, just ways to show someone you're interested and want to spend time with them.

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    • Thanks, PLB. I think it's because people want to be mad all day long. I've written myTakes on Aromatherapy and writing for publication and I still had people snarling at me about stuff, getting angry about what I said about it. It's the GaG culture these days, which is sad. Never used to be so bad here. But now, it's become a place where people are actually looking for a way to sour their mood, if they aren't already in a bad mood, that is. :)

    • Well, don't let them spoil yours! Hope you enjoy your day! :)

  • I find it ironic you say 'independent' woman yet you say the man should ask themselves if there willing to pay for the girls company. I find this completely illogical and your living evidence of why feminism isn't taken serously because people like you nip pick the perks of equality and tradition (Chivalry like paying for your date).
    Your a joke in my opinion why should the man pay just because she gave him her company. That has a underlying sexist tone. Would you say the same if the girl asked the guy out absolutely no. Its ridiculous the amount of self entitled girls there are. Some girls I know haven't been asked on dates for years and they become desperate. When they were asked out they became these girls who thought the vagina was more valuable then the penis.
    If you believe in equality you wouldn't say a man should pay simple. You fail to take into account that woman earn just like men but expect a man to spend on the girl or be wwilling to regardless. Independence implies financial independence.
    it's also funny when girls say ohh he doesn't have to do something big it can be just coffee. How about be a decent person and offer to pay that's the least you can do. Girls who think the way you do tend to remain single for a longer period Of time.
    Lastly, I know plenty of girls who say they wouldn't let a guy get into her pants unless he's a "Gentleman" and buys her things or treats her nicely.
    What is weird is that lots of girls dont actually understand that this is prostitution because there swapping material goods for sex in other words.

    How about stop being stingy and offer. By the way I live by my word because I was the one who asked out my boyfriend and bought him a coffee and he returned the favour.
    Not the greatest take @Ozzane

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    • Holy fuck, you're bitter. But I'll give you some points to dig your fangs in to:

      "I find it ironic you say 'independent' woman yet you say the man should ask themselves if there willing to pay for the girls company." Then later... "If you believe in equality you wouldn't say a man should pay simple"
      Because SOMEone is going to pay for SOMEthing. Proof you didn't read what I wrote is that during the Take I mention also coming up with agreeing to pay, and women even paying if they ask men out.

      "Your a joke in my opinion why should the man pay just because she gave him her company."
      It's "you're", and whoever *asks* does the paying. So in this case, the guy asks, he should be prepared to pay, just as a woman should if she asks a friend out or any guy. You're 19, I can understand why this etiquette is lost on you.

      "Girls who think the way you do tend to remain single for a longer period Of time."
      Weird. Been married for three years, and things are pretty equal in our household.

  • Omg Great take, you really nailed it & took the words out of my mouth on this topic! :) Also, I know this was directed towards men but i learned some lessons from your take as well lol. Thanks for writing & posting this take. :) P. S. I loved the picture u put with the couple, when he's talking about using his 2 for 1 voucher, that would be me lol :)

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  • Thank you! Such a lovely summation. Talk to your date and find out what she expects. So simple. Love the instructions on paying half and half, so considerate.

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  • Very nicely put! And I especially agree with the part about being honest about what you can or can't afford (unless it's too sensitive for you), as well as the part about going for cheaper dates (especially in the beginning). But of course, if you don't want to talk about your financial impression, you still shouldn't give the impression that you're way richer than you actually are, and vice versa.

    There seems to be some kind of misconception that you HAVE to do things that cost money on a date, but that's not true at all. There are lots of free or super cheap things you can do on a date, you don't have to spend tons of money on expensive dinners, gifts and movie/concert tickets. For the first few dates, I would MUCH prefer to just go for a walk, maybe get a cup of coffee or some ice cream, play mini golf etc. The "dinner and a movie" concept is so outdated, that it actually puts a lot of unnecessary pressure on you since it's so date-y. I like a more casual setting, it helps you relax and enjoy yourself. Whereas a dinner and all that feels so formal, even if it isn't at a particularly fancy restaurant.

    I also dislike it when guys claim that feminists want guys to pay for them and that they only want things that are to their benefit. Um, not true? ALL feminists I've ever known and talked to prefer being independent and pulling their own weight. So that also goes for paying for their own meals/tickets etc. Guys, in this case you're talking about two entirely different women... you're talking about the feminist, and the more traditional woman. The traditional woman tends to not identify herself as a feminist and is the one who has these expectations. Not the actual feminists. Quit confusing these types of women as the same type, the feminist. They're completely opposite from one another. Also please note that most girls won't try to pick a fight with you if you insist on paying. If you INSIST, then the polite thing to do for her is accept, even if she really wanted to pay for her share. So if you insist on paying, don't expect her to start fighting with you over it, since that would be extremely awkward and put a strain on the date. Like you said Ozanne, liberated women are not opposed to being treated nicely.

    Nice myTake :)

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    • talk about your financial situation* haha seems like my brain was way ahead of me when I typed that out.

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    • @Lightsoff your being naive. There are plenty of self proclaimed 'feminists' that still expect the man to pay so I dont agree and it's completely understandable guys dislike them.
      It doesn't matter how cheap a date can be. It's the principle behind it. Why is it so hard to stick to these rules.
      1) if you ask them out whatever your gender you can offer to pay but the other person should always offer.
      2) it'S also polite to say I'll pay next time or something similar to that effect.

      In my opinion if you claim to be a feminist you should offer to pay And have no expectation for the man to pay for you. But a lot of fake girls who call themselves feminist still expect the man to pay which is wrong.
      The reason why people dislike the average feminist is because they pick the perks of tradition when they want. In cases such as this it is traditional for the man to pay but in a equal society plenty of girls dont like the responsibility that comes with equality like splitting the bill.

    • @AdrianaKay not being naive at all, those who claim to be feminists but expect the man to pay aren't really feminists, as it goes against the very basic idea of feminism, so moot point.

      Yes, you should always offer to pay unless you actually don't have the money for it. The average feminist is does NOT pick the perks of tradition when they feel like it. Like I said those are not feminists at all, and are merely traditional girls or girls posing as feminists for whatever reason. Girls who don't like the responsibility of splitting the bill are not feminist no matter what they try to say.

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