Woman are not the same as men!

[ucme3y]

WOW! I may have caught the attention of some feminists with that title, who will begin to feel an irritation bubble up in their chest at such a sexist statement. But hear me out, because I don't believe women are the same as men; rather I believe women and men are completely and wonderfully different- and completely and wonderfully equal!

Feminists in the past had a really strong reason to stand up for women's rights- we weren't allowed to go to school, we couldn't get jobs blah blah etc etc, the list went on. And luckily for us, the suffragettes did a marvellous and courageous job at unlocking an equal life for us women. Nowadays, women and men (in most countries of the world, in some Middle East countries there is still a strong discrimmination against women but they have their own religious beliefs so I won't go into that..), have equal rights- women can apply for the same jobs as men, and can go to school, and also be able to speak their own mind- that's right! We can say what we thinks!- which is far more than we could do 70 or so years ago.

But let's think about the difference of genetic structure between women and men; men are naturally more athletic, stronger, faster, bigger, taller than women (on average) because they were the hunters. Whereas women are generally more compassionate and general people people due to the motherly instinct that has evolved within us (again, I realise that there are some women who have less of that than others). So generally, men and women will be naturally better at different jobs- but as equally important! Obviously, this doesn't mean go say that mean should only get the more labourous jobs and women the more social jobs, because nowadays jobs require so many different skills- also that humans have evolved so much that they can learn to pretty much conquer the world if they want to- which gives men and women an equal chance to get jobs.

My point is, men and women are not the same, but they are both as equal and important as each other. So I think (in an idiolistic manner) that feminism should celebrate these differences! Yes we are women, and yes we have the ability to grow a wonderful life within us, and yes a lot of us may try on 12 different outits before going out, and yes we have a few days of the month where we may be a little emotional and sore, but we sure as hell can be strong and determined and passionate about something we strive for!

We shouldn't try and merge men and women together, we should stay fabulous in our own way, and respect the other sex as we would wish ourselves to be respected!

NB. I understand that even though women have more equal rights now, that there is still sexism present in this world, and so I totally support all the non-aggressive and pragmatic feminist groups that merely wish to allow us the that right, rather than prove that women are better than men at it. I also understand that this is a much more complicated and controversial manner with many different opinions on it (which I would love to hear by the way), I wrote this from and idealistic point of view, which is how I wish the world worked but I get that the world rarely works as we think it should!

If anyone disagrees or has a different view, please let me know your opinion! I am really interested in what people have to say on my point of view (of feminism as it is and of what I think femmism should be)!

[Anonymous]

Attempting to reason with feminists is attempting to reason with the unreasonable, so this whole exercise is somewhat futile. Mostly, you're preaching to the choir.

Yes, men and women are and by rights equal. Do feminists believe that? No, they believe women are victims, victims of patriarchy and, well, patriarchy. In their view, men never suffer, we only inflict suffering; men never have problems, except those they bring on themselves; and men are all oppressors, never the oppressed. They really believe this, even though men and boys suffer from numerous issues specific to our gender, they take it as gospel truth. Anyone who believes this is beyond reason.

[MissNowhere]

Awesome take. I completely agree.
I never jumped on the feminism train and don't plan to either. I feel no reason to, everything is fine how it is. The one thing I am against though is the wage gap (if it actually exists), other than that I'm cool with things how they are. Honestly, some feminists are so crazy they even scare me :S

[ucme3y]

Thank you!:) Because I've come across some femminists who are sexist towards men saying 'men are pigs and idiots blah blah'.. That's not gender equality is it😂 But I think they are exceptions and mostly they are the nicer ones😂

[AdamThomas]

The wage gap does exist, but it has nothing to do with pay for the same work - it's based on overall earnings. This has been debunked so many times that people should be embarrassed to even mention it, yet it still gets thrown around all the time. It comes from the idea that men and women are the same and that everything should be 50/50 between the sexes. Men and women generally choose different careers (which feminists often see as a problem because again, they think absolutely everything should be 50/50), more women go part-time, on average women take more days off sick, women are 20x more likely to stay home and look after children than men, men are more likely to work high risk/high stress jobs that pay more, men are more likely to work night shifts/long shifts/weekends.

[ucme3y]

Yeah I agree, pay based on skill and work, not on gender

[R3d_Anonymous]

Agreed. Egalitarianism is the way to go.

[pavlove]

Everything is fine as it is? You must want the guys on this site to like you...

Maybe certain feminists take it too far, but to say that everything is fine when you have companies refusing to pay for birth control, kangaroo courts dismissing high school and college boys raping female students, and the pay gap which you've mentioned. Don't be scared of them. Think of the women you're letting down by saying everything is fine how it is.

[hellionthesage]

@pavlove They don't pay for birth control for men either. Why would they? Is your sex life the governments concern? Dismissal of rape? When did this happen? The UV rape case was evidence of the overly trusting nature of our society when a woman cries rape. Young men had there lives ruined by a false accusation and when all evidence showed it was a lie society as a whole, and feminist in particular, said that we should still believe the accuser regardless of evidence. Perhaps you need to take a closer look at things. The same occured with the duke lacross players incident as well. As for dismissal of rape, the only rape that is dismissed is female on male: https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/
The pay gap has never existed, it has been debunked again and again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpYXn1e2PHg
www.forbes.com/.../...p-cx_wf_0512earningmore.html
Meanwhile feminist have been responsible for every division between the genders and descrimination against men since the begining.

[hellionthesage]

Actually women where allowed to go to school, women did work (we actually have documents that show even in the 1400s there where female blacksmiths). The suffregettes actually hampered womens rights rather then helped (what with random acts of arson and destruction of property) it was the suffragests who got every body the right to vote (that includes the right to vote for men, something feminist don't like talking about). Women always spoke there own minds, if you look at history you'll notice there are actually quite a lot of women who did, from the oracle of delphi (female), and sappho (female poet) to Catherine the great, cleopatra, hatshepsut, Queen elizabeth/Queen mary, and Catherine demetacie (all rulers of kingdoms and countries). You also have Madame curie and Mary shelly. Their where issues to be sure, but they whent both ways (for instance the white feather girls who whent around giving men the white feather of cowardice during WW! in england in an attempt to shame them into combat, somehting they themselves would never do) It also dealt more with peoples perception of other people rather then what society itself believed (everyone believes they are far more open minded then everyone else) ie the reason why mary shelly and madam curie where not recognized was not because society didn't believe that women couldn't do these things but rather the intelligencia of the time believed that society couldn't handle it. Which is entirely different then society itself rejecting women. In short claiming feminism was needed historicly is due to the fact that your only knowledge of history comes from the feminst filtered information of history ie the history that they tell, not the history that was. Otherwise, yes men and women are different and we gravitate towards different things and we should except this since biologicly speaking we are so vastly different (the difference, geneticly speaking, of a man to a woman is the same as a human to a chimpanzee). I am not attempting to disparrage you in any fashion, merely pointing out certain issues with societies collective thoughts on gender (much as you are attempting to do with this take).

[Anonymous]

I think people pay so much attention to the extreme feminists and neglect feminists like myself who support genuine equality. Not "man hating" or thinking women should be put on a pedestal. If people actually dug into feminism (I'd say look up some Laci Green videos on Youtube) they'd realise that feminism despite the name, is about the equality of the genders. This means that feminists are worried about issues that plague men as well because they have their own sets of issues. But it's harder to relate to those struggles when you aren't a man and unfortunately not a lot of men come forward to talk about the issues.

I don't think anyone disputes the fact that men and women are biologically different. Obviously they are. I'm a feminist but I still want to have a family, breastfeed, stay home with my kids as I raise them, etc. But it's important not to forget that women still struggle a lot even in this day and age in America. It's so normalized so its easy not to recognize or understand but it's certainly there and I didn't realize the extent of it until I started building my career, watched struggling moms did my own research and things like that.

[ucme3y]

I see, and I agree with what you are saying. Could you maybe tell me some examples of where women and men are still not quite equal?

[Opinion Owner]

Dang well it's kinda hard to write it all in this comment just because it's more than just saying "This is an issue". You kinda have to dig in to the whys. I really recommend you watch some Laci Green videos on Youtube (I'll share a link if I can). Many of the issues revolve around the fact that since the introduction of organized religion thousands of years ago, women's bodies have been seen as sinful and tempting. Because men tend to have the upperhand physically, it's been easier for them over history to dominate entire civilizations. Women, because of their smaller stature and tendency to stay in their dwellings to care for communities have intrinsically been seen as weaker and lesser (I don't agree with it, but I get it). We're targets for sexual harassment, abuse, harshly criticized by men and women about our weight and appearance, less likely to gain high paying jobs. We sacrifice so much when we have families.

[Opinion Owner]

In the USA there's no paid maternity leave. You'll see one day if you decide to have a family that there's so much that women do and give up yet they remain unappreciated and unrepresented in society. Honestly that only scratches the surface. It's a deeper subject than can be explained here. And a lot of men get really defensive about these things because they see extreme feminists who want to burn their bras and whatnot and I get it. But I encourage you as a young woman not to disregard moderate feminists and to do some digging and do some research. Don't get scared off by the crazies because you might miss some really important things. I remember even just three years ago I'd say "I'm not a feminist, I love men!" And I do love men. But I understand women's and appreciate struggles a lot more and am horrified that those things ever came out of my mouth.

Here are some Laci Green videos. She does have videos about sex information so maybe don't open at school or anything lol. https://www.youtube.com/user/lacigreen/videos

[ucme3y]

Thank you! I will definitely watch some later when I have time!

[Azara]

im against merging as well I say if people are different let them be different.

that includes women to women and men to men. for some reason when people want to embrace differences between women and men they put a vice on differences between members of the same sex.

Women and men ARE different women and women are different men and men are different. people are different and insisting upon female male differences in no way does away with human to human differences.

there's no such thing as 'women' behavior and men behavior. everyone has different inclinations and abilities when given the freedom nutrition and support to discover them.

as long as women assn. men being 'different' men's women and women and men and men are all the same no one will discover anything. this fake celebration of 'natural differences' is just a veiled attempt at controlling peoples behavior through reward and isolation - based on their sex.

yes people ARE different so let them be different. everyone should stop writing articles ostensibly in defense of difference, that are in fact just dictating how women and men should act in order to be 'real'; women or men. enough already.

let people choose who they are instead of shoving it down their throats. there is no social movement that rules by compulsion can enforce behavior by law or is so powerful people are mindlessly helpless against its dictates.

there is a person following their conscience and freedom of choice, however. if people are not falling in line with your and MANY others gendered expectations, there's a reason for that. its bc they dont fit within them. and thats their right. let it be.

[AdamThomas]

Exactly. I think this endless push for everything to be 50/50 between the sexes is ridiculous, and in some ways dangerous.

I think feminists do have some genuine arguments, however they also have plenty of flawed ones which is why I don't support their cause - I don't have to label myself a feminist to support the genuine causes. Plenty of feminists will tell you that "not all feminists are like that" and that people only take notice of "extremists" but the "good" feminists are usually normal people, while the ones who have actual power and influence are usually what these moderates would consider "extreme".

For example in the military, the fire service and the police, to get more women into these jobs they were forced to lower the physical standards for women. These are jobs where lives are at stake. Surely equality should mean both men and women being held to the same standards, and surely lowering the standards is a contradiction anyway since women are supposed to be just as physically capable as men?

Another example is domestic violence. In the UK, the last I checked there were 4000 domestic violence for women and 25 men. UK feminists who run these shelters become hostile when anybody suggests that there should be more help for men. Studies show that over here 40% of DV victims are men. Feminists usually dispute those figures (as with anything that might contradict their agenda) and say that it's more like 2-10%. Only 1% of 4000 is 400, we have 25. And they still get angry at the suggestion. One of the main justifications for this is that men are bigger and stronger and do more damage. But these same. feminists think we should allow more women into the military and the police and the fire service because to suggest that women are less physically capable is sexist. Ask a "moderate" feminist.

[ucme3y]

Exactly- the extreme femminists are being hypocritical, since they are sexist towards men! And I agree with what you said about the lowering standards is not really equality- because it proves that the world understand that women are physically on average weaker than men.

[Anonymous]

well i do not know too much about feminism especially modern feminism aside from things i have read on the internet lol and i have read things on the internet from certain parts of the world where women try to highlight catcalling, slutshaming etc and the different things women go through that men dont. For there to be true equality there needs to be understanding among the sexes, i always used to consider myself a feminist and say it is much easier to be a man, but as i have gotten older i realise it isn't easy to be human. period. Women are not the same as men cause they dont have the struggles we do and we dont have the struggles they do. But feminism has its place in making people aware, men and women. Many women like to cast aside feminism, but those highlighted catcalling etc have opened up my eyes, and i come from a place where such things are pretty much allowed, accepted and encouraged even tho so many women hate it. and catcalling is one of the minor issues women face. In addition we as women need to understand that men as well do face struggles. (Sorry my comment is so all over the place :P)

[Anonymous]

Women and men are complementary, but not the same. Feminists think that the only way they can have a just relationship between men and women is ti turn men into women and women into men. That way they harm both men and women. What we need to figure out is what is it that makes men special and what makes women special. We should try to teach boys to become the best possible men, and we should teach girls to become the best women they can be. And then we need to figure out how we can best work together, and not against each other. Personally I am tired of a split society in which one group is always fighting another one. It's so tiresome and there is just too much hatred out there. Meanwhile marriage has been destroyed and we have all become selfish individuals who have bo idea what they are or where they belong.

[ucme3y]

That is a great comment! Thank you!

[oddwaffle]

Hmm... I don't know if women were the same as men... then I would be gay. Sorry, but no thanks. I like women as women, with curves and all that in the right places.

Equality doesn't mean the same. Men and women reacts differently to different situations. For example, wikipedia is open to everyone but most of the people working on it are men (yes, including feminine products like bras). There is some hypothesis saying that because women don't like confrontation. Therefore striking out the work of someone else to impose your own in an article is not very women friendly.

On the other hand, 75% of all thunder strikes hit men. I guess god is a man. He has a bias towards women when he does his daily dose of smiting.

[ucme3y]

This is my point! Women and men are not the same, but deserve equal human rights and mutual respect from each other

[iamyourneighbor]

@oddwaffle But there are flat chested women with no butts and no boobs

[stubbsy]

I believe women should have equal rights, ie employment and simply human rights, right down the middle, but to be equal is wrong, and for one reason, men should protect women from harm, and this does not have to mean in a violent orientation, but in general, because its what we are good at and without sounding like a feminist or anti feminist, there's no reason why all men can be side by side with women, but if women were in harms way, then we should "men" choose to be in front of them by instinct, x

[ucme3y]

Being equal as in being respected in the same way, and allowed the same opportunities. If you then want to stick to more traditional roles then it's a choice a woman and man can take

[TheBasil]

I get really happy the day when we quit bashing people for being feminists,
misogynistic and white knights.

Just because some people get crazy with freedom doesn't mean that everyone have, why not treat the opposite gender with respect anyway?

People throw around those words so easily they almost doesn't mean anything anymore.

If i say '' I think women are fantastic''= feminist
If i say '' I think men are fantastic''=misogynistic

People really should stop throwing those words around.

[juststrollin]

I agree, I feel like the fight for feminism is more so to stop crippling women's opportunities in life due to our being female. For example, I have been in male dominated work/school envirionments as is my field of study and I'm attractive (enough) and sort of vivacious I guess, but this has lead to me being targeted or even harassed by a male in it. And then the source of jealousy from other females... Like if a guy tells you he made out with a girl and still likes her, please think she turned him down for a reason and how forward he was with sex with you before you target her and bad mouth her to other potential project partners. Especially if she is staying away from him and avoiding him. I hope no one is ever in my situation but yeah i agree, you just have to realize that men get away with harassing women in work environments or school often

[juststrollin]

Or harassed for not sleeping with a guy.

[Accipiter]

I agree completely. Also the different hormonal levels of estrogen and testosterone also impact people's behaviors differently as well, making us even more different.

But try telling that to all those college professors who are assigning their students to write gender-neutral papers by eliminating words like: his, her, he, she, man, woman, boy, girl, etc... SMH

[ucme3y]

It's like they are trying to Pretend we are not different! I also read that in Germany or something they were going to pass a law saying you can't refer to your parents as mom or dad... It' should be parent 1 and parent 2

[Mesonfielde]

Obviously they are not the same, males have penises and females have vaginas. Sex ed from age 12. Everyone knows that. In fact, everyone probably knew that by sex ed too.

But the best thing about merging the two genders is that that way all sexism is erased, as no one is expected to fit into a specific type of box (women have to be motherly and men have to be physically strong blah blah blah) - people would be able to be "fabulous in their own way"! And not just "as men" or "as women".

[hellionthesage]

Instead will have a new type of prejudice, the people who don't want to be a certain way, the people who adhere to what they feel are traditional roles. Your just trading one problem for another. This can be seen on this site, if you bother to look at comments on topics of such a nature as this one.

[Mesonfielde]

@hellionthesage Well, following those roles only because they are the only thing they know is just sad.

[hellionthesage]

Doesn't that comment illustrate my point? Its an assumption that your way is the right way and to deviate is to be inferior misguided or ignorant. You have traded one devil for another. Nothing changed, nothing resolved.

[Mesonfielde]

@hellionthesage No, I'm not saying my way is "the right way", I'm saying people shouldn't follow that option just because they are unaware of or unwilling to consider the other alternatives.

[dartmaul15]

the problem is that total equalism will in all essense make people andogrynous. There will be no difference between males and females. Everyone will be allowed to do everything

The result? Tell me, how are women supposed to feel feminine? How are men supposed to feel masculine? There will be no way, because you erased the genders, you removed the stereotypes, you removed all forms of logical expectation.

And the result is misery, because men need to feel like men at times, and women need to feel like women. It is communism in bodily form. Everyone is equal, everyone is the same, even across the sexes. It sounds extreme, but it's what you're suggesting "merging the two genders".

Let males be males and let females be females. Let them have political and social equality, but NEVER try to merge the genders.

[Mesonfielde]

@dartmaul15 Actually, males should feel masculine by knowing they have functional male parts, and females should feel feminine by knowing they have functional female parts.

[dartmaul15]

the world doesn't work like that. By your logic, trannies are just as masculine as you are.

[Mesonfielde]

@dartmaul15 Well by MY actual logic, I think masculinity and femininity are meaningless and don't hold any value, and people should find confidence in values and properties that actually matter and hold legitimate meaning without any unnecessary convolution :D

I mean really, masculinity means like 25 things and is quite vague in its definition, same for femininity; and they are in general partly negative in the first place

[dartmaul15]

doesn't change the fact they're there.
And that at least now, a lack of those feelings is responsible for A LOT of misery

[Mesonfielde]

@dartmaul15 Miserable? Not really. People just haven't found the superior alternative. All femininity/masculinity is good for is being the cause of a lot of unnecessary sexism.

[dartmaul15]

well, figure out the better option BEFORE you make the change at least

[Mesonfielde]

@dartmaul15 What, you actually think that women thinking they need makeup and high heels to be happy and confident with themselves is a positive thing?

[takumii]

A more valid point would had been, since they are not equal, they don't deserve equality.
I am not saying 'women' should be dominated, I am saying, humans should be given equal rights.
Rights should be same for humans irrespective of the fact that they are men or women.
The idea of feminism is faulted, when you say You will work in favor of WOMEN, because they were oppressed. The idea itself is sexist as you are showing your preference over one sex.

[ucme3y]

But in the past women were SEVERELY discriminated against, so that's why in order to achieve equality women had to stand up and fight for their sex. If there wasn't such a lack of rights for women in the past, then there would not have been a reason to balance the scales with a little girl power. As for your first comment, I disagree, because even though both are different both are needed to continue life and so ultimately both are as important as each other, hence rights should be equal.

[takumii]

The idea of feminism is wrong, I know in the past women were kept devoid of certain rights, the solution to that should had been an effort to reduce the importance of gender in places where it is irrelevant. For example :- In a Multi-National Company, talking about the 1960s, women were given the low paid jobs and men were given the higher paid jobs.. Now, the employers weren't sexists, they didn't give women those jobs because they were low paying, but they gave women those jobs because lesser skill was required in that job. They didn't take into account that some women can be more skillful than others, and some men can be less skillful than others, so instead of giving jobs based on gender, if the jobs were given on basis of skills, it would had been a BETTER solution COMPARED to increasing pay of low paying jobs just because women are working in them.

Rights should be equal, yes, but not because men and women are equal (they are not), but because they are both humans.

[ucme3y]

I agree with what you say about jobs given on skill rather than gender,

[RandomUsername3464]

Women and men are indeed not the same. That's the problem with feminists, they want to be like men yet also be exalted above us at the same time yet ALSO be women! Feminists are insane.

[ucme3y]

Yes I agree, some (but not all) femminists want to prove that they are better at men at everything, which is simply not true. We are all good at our own things, and have the ability to learn the others

[James19]

All feminists are not same ( you know it already) but the thing that surprises me that some of them are contradictory to their own norms and policies.
For instance, a woman was holding a paper with a sexist perhaps hate remark " men are sexist pigs" on an anti - sexual assault movement. The same women gets furious if someone calls her brother or dad so.
Feminists are confused.

[ucme3y]

In her eyes probably her dad or brother aren't sexist (and her view may of course be biased) which is why she will get furious at such a remark

[James19]

Agree

[elric]

Very true. Men are men, and women, women. As for sexism, as the sexes are different, there are going to be sex specific opinions and facts. Thus sexism, as we think of it, is just natural thought, and a non-issue.

[ucme3y]

As long as both sexes are treated the same, I think that there isn't a problem.

[MissLebanon]

I like the way youhink. There are a few things that could do with a little fixing here and there but in the end it's usually okay. Nowadays we are generally okay. I'm an egalitarian and honestly what you're saying seems perfectly reasonable.

[dartmaul15]

so basially you're claiming men and women are like the symbols for yin and yang?

Equally large/important, different in shape, and only together can they form a whole sircle and complete eachother?

[ucme3y]

Exactly my point! I was thinking of it but I forgot the name for it!!

[BigJake]

Careful, you're making sense, and feminists aren't going to stand for that.

[ucme3y]

😂😂😂😂 cheeky

[BigJake]

Gotta take your shots where you can.

[HikerDude]

You are correct, sir.

[tynamite]

Feminism says that gender is a social construct. That's wrong.

[ucme3y]

What do you mean by social construct?

[tynamite]

Feminists think that ALL differences between men and women are caused by society and that they are born with the same brains.

[ucme3y]

I see, and yeah I agree

[Mesonfielde]

No two people are born with the same brain, and even if they are; neuroplasticity due to different stimuli would cause it to differ after some time.