Understanding Dating 'Out of Your League'

Unless you’re brand-new to GaG or really, the internet as a whole, you’ve surely seen some variation of someone being told that they ‘can do better’ in respect to who they’re interested in. That they’re more attractive than who they have their eye on, therefore they should reevaluate their decision and go for someone more in their league.

Understanding Dating 'Out of Your League'

Sounds ridiculous, right? I was just browsing the front page of reddit this morning, and saw a question asking ‘Average-looking men: How would you feel about dating an average-looking woman?’. Which makes it sound that in society’s striving for equality and inclusiveness of people of all ages, orientations, colours, genders, etc., we’ve broken ourselves down into yet another category.

We are now in ‘leagues’. So I guess less attractive people to the left, all the dimes to the right?

A ludicrous idea, for a few reasons:

- Beauty is subjective.

Not every girl finds a guy with washboard abs or a chiseled jawline to be the most desirable. Nor does every guy find girls rocking double-D’s or an ass reminiscent of Nicki Minaj’s to be the bees knees.

- Not everybody decides who they’ll be in a relationship with based off of looks alone.

I mean… I can’t imagine someone having a fight with their girlfriend or a huge incompatibility in respect to their lifestyles, then willing to completely lay down their pride and accept such issues because ‘she’s got big titties, though, so I guess I’ll let her bunk up with a different guy every other night.’

- The clique/profession to which someone belongs plays a big role in their attractiveness to both genders.

I bet that, purely physically speaking, some of the not so popular girls are actually quite pretty. ‘Diamonds in the rough’, especially in comparison to those who’ve worked their way up to the top of the food chain with the help of good dick-sucking skills, being a major sweet-talker, or even investing in top of the line paint-rollers.

By seeing someone else as in a certain ‘league’, this would imply that society has a set of universally recognized standards.

Though the media may play a large rule in influencing what society views as ‘beautiful’ and not so attractive, even those terms of attractiveness are not set in stone.

For example, you might look at a chick who’s super fit and think that she’s not only really hot, but it’s also admirable that someone would put in that much time and effort to get their body and health to such a level. The person next to you, though, may be completely turned off. One of those who think that it’s ‘disgusting’ for a woman to be so toned and athletic. That a female leading such a lifestyle is simply ‘not feminine enough’.


In any case, the bottom line here is that what you find as making someone out of your league, another will find to be below theirs. None of which is true because there’s no such thing as ‘leagues’ in the first place. It’s simply a matter of having your own taste.

...Unless your counter-argument is that the average female expects too much from a man. That her standards are 'too high', therefore she's evil. True or not, where does that leave you?

In exactly the same place- still alone.

The mold you fit as a person is something shaped by the environment in which you’re raised, as well as your own decisions in large-part so rather than playing the learned-helplessness card. Nothing stops you from working towards becoming your ideal self.

While you can't directly change the standards someone may have and only hope to become more appealing in their eyes, what's stopping you from working towards that? Are your arms bound behind your back, forbidding you from hitting the gym on a regular basis, for example?


Is there something other than your own insecurities or laziness preventing you from pursuing passions and hobbies of your own? Don't get me wrong, physical appearance is important in terms of who we develop interest in but that'd be a pretty boring date if this Adonis has no interesting information to tell me about himself.

You are not assigned as belonging to a certain league at birth. It's not like shortly after birth, the doctor will mark us as a 10, 5, etc. on our birth certificate. Which is common knowledge but if you disagree..

Congratulations on sealing your own fate.

To sum things up-

Leagues are standards. Standards are subjective. Therefore, leagues are subjective.

So next time you hear “he/she is out of my league”, just dismiss it as another way of someone mind-fucking themselves into backing out of a possible rejection.


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What Guys Said 19

  • kayla, no, not you. This is painfully PC and i don't know if it's because you feel The PC crusade helps you more than it hurts you but whether it does or not its just not reality

    you argue that men and women should see no leagues and that there is generally agreed upon standard of beauty in this country. you also argue that people believe in beauty in an ENTIRELY subjective way. This is also ignoring huge things like similarities in super models similarities in sports illustrated models

    you're basically denying that the pretty girl or the pretty boy--the ones who who almost everyone thinks is gorgeous doesn't exist.

    you're suggesting that some fat, ugly looking girl who i would vomit if i was having sex with is some other guys perfect 10 girl? again, totally illogical

    here's THE PROBLEM WITH YOU SAYING THIS RHETORIC

    It creates the following type of people:

    Girls who lower their standards and date fat slobs because at least they're nice but don't do anything meaningful have no ambition look like fat pieces of lard but hey they've found a guy who's eventually willing to marry them and treat them "right"

    Guys who lower their standards and date fat slob females becasue they're nice and same as above

    Girls who date assholes because they think breaking up with someone because they don't value you them right away is being too cocky and that everyone should give everyone else infinite chances

    Guys same as bove

    The point is here is that leagues are simply reflections OF THAT PERSONS VALUE SYSTEM.

    IF YOU HAVE NO VALUE SYSTEM, YOU HAVE NO LEAGUE

    Leagues aren't only about looks though for men they're often dominated by them and that's alright as long as they're true to the guy. some guys i'm sure sure lie about needing a girl to be gorgeous to be really happy in the relationship because they are trying to seem more masculine just like some women lie about caring about a guys personality all that much in order to seem more feminine. Everyone's trying to make everyone else happy and has no idea what they want.

    I certainly view this as heinous attack on an early take i wrote about finally getting the girl out of your league and its guys listening to this garbage that helps them FEEL BETTER ABOUT NOT GETTING WHAT THEY REALLY WANT

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    • the only leagues you hear about are men whining that they don't get any girls because they've placed themselves and any girls they'd consider into 'leagues'. Essentially digging their own grave. They definitely won't be getting any girls if they don't even try and accept defeat without getting off their ass.

  • Yeah. True, people who usually say 'he/she is outta my league' suffer from keeping low standards for themselves or just have low self esteem.
    From what I've noticed, if a guy has enough swag and confidence to approach a girl he finds attractive, he basically breaks the game, because there might be hundreds of dudes out there who might be better looking or even more compatible, but he wins because he was outcome independent. I just don't understand why many, many guys get that.

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  • "so I guess I’ll let her bunk up with a different guy every other night" wait, what?

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  • "Leagues are standards. Standards are subjective. Therefore, leagues are subjective. Leagues are standards. Standards are subjective. Therefore, leagues are subjective."

    Yeah.. leagues are unique and defined by individual person dependent on their own needs or desires. If a girl can get a guy of xyz standard, she ain't going to aim just for that standard. She will be aiming higher. Same with guys. So there will be certain parameters in place, that is what is described as "their" league.

    So you can not simply discredit the notion of leagues while acknolwedging them yourself. Why would someone date below their standards, we all aim highest possible. If a girl is 8 physically and a guy is 2, guy meets every single of her criterias apart from physical appearance. Do you think that 8 is going to lower her standards for him? She will date within her league.

    I guess what you are saying is why limit yourself, what is their league is unique for each individual and you might actually be in higher league for him/her. I agree with that. But their is only so much leeway. Like I mentioned physical appearance above, it is futile for a guy who on average is 2 to aim for girl who is 8. For one we only have so much time and energy, and like in other things in life, we need to make calculative decisions. Hence to maximize our outcome we stick reasonably close to our parameters ie league.

    Not that I don't agree with you in some aspects, there is no reason at least not to try. Not to mention she might end up saying yes and have your babies.

    by the way you mentioned below your boyfriend is 5-7 and you're 5-10. I'm curious when you guys go out do you wear heels?

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    • Also you mentioned girls having high standards, "... Unless your counter-argument is that the average female expects too much from a man."

      Yet girls seem quiet, so far only 2 replied.

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    • Since turned 19 at the very latest you stopped wearing heels? No idea what you mean there.

      You deflecting is going to make no difference. Gave no counter argument, again if no such leagues exist see no replies from girls saying anything of sorts.

      Just re-read my answer. Everyone has standards, no one wants to just stick to their own standards, so of course they aim higher. As its girls who have more of a choice they tend to be more pickier. These standards set the parameters hence what people call leagues. Its not just a matter of not trying, but simply they will have better success adhering with people who they deem have similar standards, or the standards they can match.

      It has no bearing on being single, lack of confidence does. These guys don't even bother approaching any girls, be in their league or not.

    • I started clubbing at 19.
      Keep believing what you wish, sweetheart. I don't even bother trying to deflect 'arguments' of guys who are so delusional that they can't even accept what I tell them I've done to be the truth because it counters the alternate reality they've created for themselves.

  • I used to believe in 'league' and I had low self-esteem because of average looks and introverted personality.
    I stopped believing in 'league' once a super 10/10 girl really liked me. Realised all those things you mentioned.
    Looks play major part only when you've interest in a person but not familiar with him/her. If you are familiar with that person then looks don't play major part. At that time other factors play major part in going forward.

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  • No matter what attracts me to a woman, she's the prettiest girl in my entire world.

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  • I like this take. I think the big disconnect between guys and girls on this topic is that guys tend to have a more common idea of what constitutes an attractive woman. Girls, by contrast, are all over the map in what they like.

    This is why so many guys are delusional about their own level of attractiveness compared to other guys. There are a lot very average guys out there who believe they've gotten a raw deal because they see other guys they deem unattractive with hot girls. Guys need to understand that they don't get to decide what's attractive, just as girls don't get to decide which girls are hot. In all cases, the market decides.

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    • "Guys tend to have a more common idea..." Hmm I'm not sure, men can have very different tastes in women...

  • I'm 6'9 so I don't have much of choice to decide who is out of my league or not. I'm out of almost every girl's league. 😰

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  • There is such a thing as being out of my league. I haven't finished college and am making less than minimum wage. So no matter what my personality is no woman will ever date me unless she is also out of work.

    I live in the real world, not in a woman's romance novel.

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    • lol okay then. Whatever makes you feel better about your situation. 👌

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    • @kaylaS91 ... says the person who just wrote 2000 words in an attempt to convince the world she's right. Try again.

    • @BigJake it's an opinon.
      I think you need a time out, tbqh. Maybe some time to review basic communication skills, as well. :)

  • I just don't care about women anymore

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    • ... that's your own choice, though. You're free to do as you please, just please don't blame yourself being single on women when you're the one guilty of just giving up.

    • Many guys gave up because of women...

  • whats a standard please explain?

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  • Nice take!!! Loved it.. 😊👌👍

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  • I like how your take is centered around women and men always overlooking the average girl for the hot popular girl.

    Anyways the reality is this.

    For girls:
    If a guy has many women chasing him, makes more money than you and is handsome. Unless you yourself are top shelf among all the other girls who are chasing with then he will not pick you. Many women suffer from the same syndrome that average/below average guys suffer from. The belief that if they show this person their amazing personality and bend over backward for them they'll pick them above the rest.

    For guys:
    A girl who is better looking than you and has better looking guys asking her out will only ever pick you if you are rich, moved up in social status or the more popular one if she is an attention whore that likes getting worship. The reality is many attractive women date uglier men either for other superficial reason or because they don't want their partner to leave them. So the less attractive guy will treat her like a queen, treat her well and be more loyal and put up with her shit compared to if she got a CHAD who would end up leaving her once he gets bored.

    Also leagues can never truly exist for women because of hypergamy. A woman who is a 5/10 will have big resentment for getting with a man 5/10 or under. She would at least want a 6/10 male to settle down with.

    Perfect example of this was a woman i met in NYC making 140 k/year as a doctor. She did wanted a man who made around the same as her in terms of money and thought she was a total catch because she was a doctor. She did not realize men could give 2 shits about money she made and if she wanted love she needed to stop being hypergamous and widen her scope of men interested in her.

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    • *She wanted a man who made around the same as her or more in terms of money

  • There's no such thing as leagues...

    People are just people...

    I question the intelligence of who made this thread...

    And I wonder what "league," she thinks she's in and what she would rate herself out of 10.

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  • Girl: "maybe the reason why you're single is because you're way too picky!"
    Me: "so, what if I asked you out on a date?"
    Girl: "sorry, you're not my type!"

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    • How did you conclude that your being too picky means that you should ask her out, though?

  • -Beauty is subjective.
    To a certain extent but I do think there is a large amount of agreement.
    There are certain traits that will be considered to be desirable by most people and there are traits that will be considered undesirable to most people.

    -Not everybody decides who they’ll be in a relationship with based off of looks alone.

    I agree with this. There are leagues but they aren't determined solely by by physical appearance although you do have to meet a baseline level of attractiveness. Leagues are determined by overall value or the sum of all your characteristics so it is dumb to take yourself out of the game just because they are better looking.

    An average looking person can be in the same league as a hot person if their other traits make up for what they lack in looks but a fat dumb, guy who makes minimum wage is never going to be in the same league as an attractive intelligent girl who makes 70k a year.

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  • Saying someone is out of my league is defeatist. The real question is are we a match?

    I have dated a variety of women from knockout gorgeous to decent to not so good looking. One girl could be gorgeous and have a lot of things in common but another could be gorgeous and be boring as watching paint dry. It's not a black and white thing. I mean physical attraction does matter but it isn't everything.

    I'm more excited to see a cute girl with a lot in common than a gorgeous girl who I have nothing in common with.

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    • I agree, not sure why so many people have such a hard time seeing it this way. lol.

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    • Of course it's gonna vary with each person of course, but I guess to be more specific, I've had times where women will tell me I'm cute, funny, etc and suggest hanging out again and to hit em up, only for them to flake out of the blue.

      I do see what you're saying about not making my intentions clear. I mean there have been times where I'll see women for a few dates and be open to seeing them, but not sure where I wanna take it. I tend to ease into things.

    • Also keep in mind, that multi dating could also be a huge factor where people are seeing a few others at a time and like some people more than others.

  • When you were talking about what girls want in guys you forgot the most important thing to girls, which is height. So granted not every girl wants abs but EVERY girl wants a taller guy, or has some form of height requirement and if you dont meet it you aren't considered manly by them.
    I standing at 5'9 would probably never end up with a 5'11 girl, not because I wouldn't find her attractive, but because I am not tall enough for her. So there you could say she's out of my league.

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    • ... the only people I hear talking about height is guys, actually. I've never heard a girl mention a guy's height or lack thereof, in a negative way.

      Your last statement is not true in all cases and your having such a defeatist attitude right from the get-go is a large contributing factor to this whole deal with 'leagues'. I'm 5'10" and have been with my boyfriend who is... around 5'7"ish for 2+ years now. The only people who seem to have issue with it are those not in the relationship.

  • Lol don't play in league, Go pro, Join NFL and make legendary records

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What Girls Said 2

  • That's just in america we see that kind of stuff

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  • the thing is that i only notice these coming from guys... and especially they're guy friends saying stuff like 'she is out of your league, she'll never like you' or 'man you could do so much better.
    i dont think women really put men in leagues

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    • Yup I think the same..

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    • @ez456 some guys look ok without any hair tho and i know some women who like that

    • @ez456 did any woman actually tell you that the primary reason for which they overlook you is becaue you're bald?

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