Nice Guys vs. Good Men and Why One Will Always Win

[sparkly-crystal]

We know that "Nice Guys" tend to end up in the dreaded "Just Be Friends Zone". But that doesn't stop women everywhere from claiming that's what they really want in a man. So what's the deal here?

So here it is: The difference between a genuinely good man who ATTRACTS women and one who ultimately does not is centered around from what position he is coming from in performing his "good guy" behavior. Men who act "nice" from a position of WEAKNESS end up rejected. Men who are in a position of STRENGTH, yet who treat women well often make women so crazy for them that they have more options than they can handle.

As always, I'm happy to break it down for you. Here are some key differentiators between "nice guys" who finish first and those who...well...don't.

Nice Guys

(Having Come from a Position of Weakness)

....Have Thinly-Veiled Ulterior Motives.

Are you listening to her because you genuinely care about her issues or are you really just trying to make her feel comfortable so you can weasel your way into her pants? Be honest with yourself.Nobody likes to be "brown nosed" or "buttered up". There is no more blatant display of viewing a woman as a purely sexual object than to go overboard being "nice". She knows, you know and the rest of the world knows you wouldn't be so "nice" if she wasn't so sexy. Consider how weak this appears to a woman. End of story.

....Is Afraid to Lose the Woman He Is With.

therefore, he literally bends over backwards not to "upset" her or say the wrong thing. Despite the obvious desperation involved here, arguably the most unattractive aspect of all this to a woman is how BORING it is.

THE GOOD MAN WHO WINS

(Having Come from a Position of Strength)

...Treats All Women Well, Regardless of Sexual Attractiveness.

Guys, take this test for yourself: Do you open doors for ALL women, or only for the ones who look good. If the latter, don't be so shocked that your dates slot you in the JBF zone so much. Your "nice" behavior is all about manipulating women into giving you what you need. Start appreciating women more genuinely, and you will begin to be more genuinely appreciated. Is this really so difficult to get?

...Is Not Focused on "Getting Some".

Sex-starved men stay hungry. Men without pressing sexual needs don't put women on a pedestal. They are confident, assertive and self-assured.

[Anonymous]

Let's look at a scenario here:

We have Brian. Brian is a good looking guy who is 6'2 and is kind to everyone.

shechive.files.wordpress.com/.../hot-guys-26.jpg

Because Brian was born with good looks people would want to socialize with him more and be friends. By making more friends Brian gets access to a wider pool of girls that would notice him and consider him for lover/boyfriend.

If Brian is kind and decent to everyone then that just makes him even more appealing and girls can rationalize and hamster in their mind that Brian is such a good guy because he's a great person with a lovely character.

Let's look at Jamal

forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php

Jamal is a 5'8 black guy with average face. Jamal has nothing physically that stands out about him and has a smaller pool of friends compared to Brian even if he actively tries to make new friends people put him as an acquaintance level.

So Jamal gets a smaller pool of girls who notice he exist and and even smaller pool of girls who want a relationship with him some of which might be down right ugly and total slobs.

Despite Jamal being a decent guy and kind and helpful to everyone know one gives a shit. Girls who are better looking or on his level of looks thinks he's nice because he wants to get into their pants and demonize him as a "nice guy'. Especially if Jamal gets a little bent out of shape of them only wanting to talk to him when they need something.

So girls demonize him as a nice guy and the other guy as a good guy. The difference between the 2 men is the social status, and looks each men were born with.

Granted there are assholes who pretend to be good guys to get into a girl's pants but the vast majority of guys are good by nature because you would want to treat others based on how you'd like to be treated. Yet, people have this "I don't owe you anything mentality" which is pure solipsistic that even if i've been kind to you for so long yet i treated you like shit and you suddenly take that kindness away from me then you won't a kind person but someone who was using it for anterior motives.

It's really sad in today modern world that a person's life, experience and how people perceive them is very much tied to how they were born.

[Indigo91]

Most honest answer this should be for this take, you should do your own mytake arguing against her crap opinion.

[123cheesecake]

Amen, amen, amen.

[bloodmountain1990]

Or when you have dating struggles and you wonder what goes wrong but somehow trying to figure out what went wrong makes you needy, whiny, and entitled. SMH

[vishna]

Guys! GUYS, listen. LISTEN.

this below
"he literally bends over backwards not to "upset" her or say the wrong thing." Don't do that. Have a spine and treat us with affection but not like masters. That is not boyfriend material, that is at best, friend material.

[Truthatanycost]

Guys! GUYS, listen. LISTEN... disregard all of the above and just don't bother at all. Your life will be stress free, you will have more money, more free time and you will be so much more relaxed. You will also have a great laugh watching other guys scrambling after women...

[vishna]

@Truthatanycost If a man can live without a partner, good for him, who am I to judge.

[Anonymous]

This is a very cute take! But unfortunately, it completely misses the cold, hard truth of reality! Younger females are particularly prone to make all kinds of idiotic false conclusions based their own idiotic false assumptions! It actually takes some SERIOUS WISDOM to judge the measure of a man! This is something most younger females clearly do not have! So, it's pretty much a given that most younger females make bad dating and mating choices!

IDIOT ASSUMPTION NUMBER ONE - Most younger females automatically take kindness for weakness! When a man specifically CHOOSES to treat all women with the same respectful kindness as he would treat his mother or grandmother, many females quickly jump to various idiot false conclusions such as:
1. "He must be weak!"
2. "He won't stand up for himself! "
3. "He can't protect me!"
4. "He's only being nice to get in my pants!"
5. "He's thinks he's entitled to having a girlfriend just for being nice!"
6. "He just wants to be a friend with no possibility of romance... EVER!"
7. "He's up to something and I can see right through him!"

Apparently, many females have a built-in cartoon image that they feel they must project on any man who is foolish enough to treat them with a great deal of sincere kindness because they were raised as gentlemen. Let's get off the idiot assumption train for a minute and deal with some cold, hard truth of reality! When a man is genuinely caring, kind and respectful, many women automatically consider him to be DOG CRAP! That is the cold, hard truth of reality!

Genuine goodness, genuinely caring about others, genuinely trying to do right... These things are completely without value in the eyes of most younger women when they try to judge the measure of a man! This is because most younger women don't have the serious wisdom needed to recognize and appreciate an ACTUAL good man! This is the cold, hard truth of reality! Instead, most women are drawn to Dark Triad personalities (i. e. narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy). This is why scum-of-the-earth lowlife criminals alway have lots of women and actual good men are often shunned by women!

The whole idea of the "bad boy", "jerk", "asshole", "douche bag" man that most younger women can't resist is tied into the Dark Triad personality traits! For most younger females, that's literally what attractive means! Whe females start to get older and approach the unstoppable wall of middle age, they are FORCED into mature wisdom!

[Beaver19]

So just because I don't seek sex until marriage makes me sex desperate and a weak guy? Just because a guy is shy around girls means he is weak and would treat her wrong?

Look I see your point in some of the self proclaimed nice guys but in reality a guy who's shy or trying hard to keep the girl he wants doesn't make him weak or not worth the time. And the 'nice' guys do make some points about women saying one thing and wanting another-I feel that's where looks come in, men admit looks matter, women often say they do less but still go for them so both sexes are 'shallow' in that way just men more honest. Still there are 'nice' guys who just want sex. However just because I'm holding out for a gorgeous looking girl who's sweet doesn't make me weak, just because I'd do everything for her to make her happy doesn't make me weak or unstrong. The only guys so confident they don't worry about losing the girl a lot are the type who play around whether you like that or not.

I like the idea of Good Man versus Nice Guy however realize that there's been like literally one hundred of these type of posts everyyear the false 'nice guys' after sex are not changing and we Good Men like myself really don't care to see it all the time.

I really disagree with the whole 'guy wanting a girl makes him desperate' No, it means he may truly want that in his life and to care for her.

[bloodmountain1990]

"I really disagree with the whole 'guy wanting a girl makes him desperate' No, it means he may truly want that in his life and to care for her"

Agreed. It'd only be desperate if he wanted any girl in her life regardless of her physical attractiveness or personality.

[bloodmountain1990]

Aka dating someone just to date is rather desperate and I've done that before, waste of time.

[Beaver19]

@bloodmountain1990 yes, I have high standards in a girl in body and mind, I don't know if you know who Lindsey Stirling is but she is the most attractive woman alive to me because she's so fun and holds to her faith and beliefs even in relative fame. Also she's literally the perfect girl body wise for my tastes as well and I say all this respectfully about her. Thing is not many girls like her exist, maybe none besides the one and only. Girls who look that good and have such serious intentions and a good heart, regardless that's what I'm holding out for, even if I become a bitter old man alone it's just not worth settling for something less. That's why to me the whole generations idea of dating is totally screwed and that's guys and girls. They act like people like me are missing out however-they are the ones missing out, when you know what you want and you wait chances are it'll come eventually and that is worth it to me to find my Lindsey Stirling. Once I find her I'll be happy...

[bloodmountain1990]

No, who's Lindsey Sterling?

[Beaver19]

@bloodmountain1990

www.google.com/imgres

That's her famous pop violinist. Very down to earth despite decent fame, religious (doesn't even show any part of her body really although toght clothes for dancing) etc.

[Battooot]

very smart and wise coming from a 17 year old.

I perfectly agree with you with the strength thing and think its a major major factor. The little descriptions you wrote are agreeable as well but there could be stronger points in there. i especially agree with the 'afraid to lose the woman' thing. It overflows the atmosphere with the man's weakness.

BUt the strength thing, that is big, really big. Having position of power or being dominant, while being nice at the same time; that's the secret to it all. a weak guy who could get bullied/dominated/let people step on him and is nice is way way different than a guy who is strong/can stand up for himself/does not let anyone step on him and is nice and respectful. The first guy will be nice because of his weakness, so it's not genuine niceness. It's like he is forced to be nice cause he's scared and can't do anything. The 2nd guy chose to be nice out of his free will. nothing forcing him to be nice, he is strong so he can pick not to be nice if he wants to and he won't be scared of consequences. But he picks to be respectful and nice because that's the person he is.

big difference in attraction, even between guys, we respect the guy who is strong and respectful, and have LESS respect for the weak ones who are nice because we know they can't do anything to us. it's just in our nature and it happens unconsciously. This sucks for the weak guys but it's the truth, that's how humans are. I know because i been the weak guy before and i know how it feels.

[TheSkaFish]

@Battooot , so, what do you do if you had been a weak guy before, if you had been bullied, if you had let people step on you because you didn't think you could win fights and didn't know any better? What do you do if you are not in a position of power?

Even now, what if for whatever reason, I find myself competing for a woman against a 200 lb tough guy, bad boy type. I can't stand up for myself and assert dominance by just shooting him, that's illegal and we can't solve our problems like that in civilization. What can you do to stand up to a person like that without breaking the law? How do you compete against a guy like that and win?

[Battooot]

@TheSkaFish

you get yourself stronger, get more confident. find what you hate about yourself and what's lowering your self confidence and tackle it. I wrote down the whole process of how you can do it in a word document if you are interested to give it a look i can send it to you. It includes all details you want about every thing and i even put my own experience in there. And it also involves me being bullied in school when i was young and letting people step on me and how i made myself get over it

[TheSkaFish]

@Battooot , yeah sure, send me it. I had a similar experience growing up where I wasn't in the "in crowd" and though I found my group of friends eventually, it took a lot longer than most. There were just not a lot of people with the same interests as me around.

Can you send your thoughts to me in Messages here, instead of a Word doc if it's cool?

[Scrambledagain]

This is so wrong that I don't have time to come back on it without doing a my take on it. Nice guys are nice to everyone, not just women they want to have sex with. That's their problem by the way. They don't know what they want so they fall head over heels for one. bottom line: nice guys, good guys, easy going guys, class clowns, positive Petes, whatever you want to call them will never, never, ever, never, ever, never ever be on the same level as a bad boy with women. At most a good guy had a few relationships and ends up as some consolation prize for a women in her late 20's or 30's, something I wish on no man.

[sparkly-crystal]

if they are nice to everyone without any ulterior motives I call them good men.

[Scrambledagain]

Good men: exactly. That's what I am referring to. But good men don't get laid on the same levels as bad boys.

[slatyb]

Bad boys may get laid by lonely women with poor judgment. Fine, they deserve each other. Women who have their life together will wait to meet a good man who has his life together too. It took me many years time and a bad marriage to understand this.

[ObscuredBeyond]

Getting laid shouldn't have to be a scorecard. That's looking at life all wrong from the get-go. Only a fool thinks the path to fulfillment means getting more pussy from more places than someone else.

What matters is the inner growth that derives from the relationships you get, and how it shapes you and your future decisions. A man who has only been with one, yet gains tremendous wisdom through her, is far better than a fool who is with a thousand women and learns nothing.

[Scrambledagain]

@slatyb women will wait? Took you many years and a bad marraige? Dude you are living proof of what I'm saying. Your life is evidence handed on a platter for me. And good women don't have to be defined as good because of whether they wait or not. Some of the best girls I know are sluts (I use that term positively).

[Scrambledagain]

@ObscuredBeyond dude... logically you learn more by doing more. Women included. I've learnt more in 1 year of being a player than I ever did being in a monogamous long term relationship.

That said, it doesn't matter how anybody approaches it, it still doesn't negate the fact that bad boys get more pussy. End of story. If this my take was about how being a nice guy with less pussy is better than being a badboy with more pussy, then your opinion would be valid.

[ObscuredBeyond]

Skills do not equal wisdom. But if notches are all you care about, then I guess that's that. I've had a lot of gal pals, but that's not the same as girlfriends, let alone sex partners.

[AssJacket]

Heh. You called yourself a "player"

[Scrambledagain]

@ObscuredBeyond true wisdom is born from doing. Doing creates both skills and wisdom. If you want to do monogamy and a one long term relationship, good for you. But you only experiencing a pin drop of what you could experience. And attraction is a skill, not who you are unless who you are is that which is attractive to women (very few of these men).

[Scrambledagain]

@AssJacket yip... I get out and play the game, which therefore defines me as a player. Any other clarification needed?

[ObscuredBeyond]

Doing does not equal heeding.

[slatyb]

I went through a bad marriage because I wasn't a good guy. I wasn't really a bad guy either, but I was a mess with no life and no confidence. I rejected lovely women to marry one who was messed up in a different way.

[Scrambledagain]

@ObscuredBeyond how do you know what to heed without doing? Obviously in context but if you do to much heeding and not enough doing you are living in your comfort zone and going on what the world tells you.

[Scrambledagain]

@slatyb oh, wait a minute... wait a minute... you telling me the girl (your ex) went for you ( a not so good guy) AND you had to say no to other women. Wow... women going for a "not so nice guy". Stop the fucking press lol. Dude sorry about your marraige but you just keep proving what I'm saying.

[GuyWannaHelp]

Very good myTake! It is scary how much I identify with the "is afraid to lose the woman he is with" part. I do genuinely care about what people have to say and like to help people with whatever they are dealing with (which is why I am on this site in the first place). I am not sure why, but I feel like I need to proof myself. It is hard to explain, but I will try anyway. When getting to know someone new, it feels as if I should be the one to lead it towards a relationship. I need to ask her out and decide where to go, I need to show initiative, etc.

But I think you already know what I mean, since your wrote the myTake. My question to you is, what can I do about this?

[Scrambledagain]

Robert Glover: No more Mr nice guy. Get that book and solve your problems;)

[Anonymous]

The main question I have is the part about not wanting to upset a woman by being agreeable. I've had problems with this before. I felt like I was picking my battles, letting what to me were little things slide, because I figured that there will be problems with anyone and it's just not worth it to argue and disagree every single time. I thought that by being agreeable and avoiding unnecessary argument, I was demonstrating maturity. I didn't feel I was being desperate. I felt like I was valuing the woman and interacting with her more than I wanted to disagree, because everyone will have something I disagree with and it didn't seem worth it.

[Opinion Owner]

I don't quite understand what I'm doing wrong here.

[Battooot]

You doing nothing wrong. You are indeed demonstrating maturity. However, you would be doing something wrong when you let something you think is BIG to slide. Usually women and even men will be able to see that in your expressions, you can't hide your inner in-satisfaction and people will know that you were too weak to speak up or kept silent for some reason.

[Opinion Owner]

@Battooot well, the problem was that even though I didn't think certain things were big issues, the woman did. She thought I would lose who I am, my individuality. I disagreed about that, I still don't think the issue with her was as big of a deal as she thought it was.

[Battooot]

well, be sure to always say your opinion. At least half or 3/4 of the times. Like yes you can let the small thing slide, but let your opinion be known either way. So like "oh you want to go to eat ice-cream instead of going to the restaurant? i really wanted to go to the restaurant cause im hungry and i love food but okay i'l take you to the ice-cream place just this time cause you're cute". or something like that, you can restructure that phrase to a hundred other things like saying in the end 'yes i'l take you to the ice-cream place in one condition that you give me a kiss here on the cheek so i know you appreciate my sacrifice for you'... etc

[Anonymous]

I agree with some points. It's a nice take. But a genuinely good guy will be nice.

Some of it seems to try to justify women not rewarding good behavior. For instance check this out: www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a27854-woman-hears-the-exact-same-thing-from-two-guys-but-she-reacts

A good guy will open doors for any body, not just women. But that same good person may not been rewarded by text initiations, flirtations and sex by a woman. Many women seem to keep these guys waiting or tease whilst rocking the world of a guy who didn't give a damn and hold the door for anyone, except maybe her to get in her pants.

Check out the other take, it's an eye opener.

[JerichoStorm]

I think she meant that, in the end, the "nice guy" is usually, in fact, a douche who is pretending to be nice to get into someone's pants.

In this MyTake, the position she is defending is that a good man will be nice to women simply because he has values. He doesn't have some sort of inferiority complex that could come up in a situation with a nice guy.

The thing is, also, that women do not need to "reward good behavior". You're not a dog, and you don't get to hold someone's hand or kiss them or even go out on a date with them /just because/ you were nice or behaved in a good manner. You yourself made that clarification, a "Good man" will act like a good guy with anybody, but you can't just assume that just because she's a woman she owes you some sort of romantic or sexual reward.

I honestly didn't oven the link, no time, but from the title the woman could have reacted differently because she was attracted to one of them. So what? Good behavior doesn't equal getting the girl.

[Opinion Owner]

@JerichoStorm Pls check out the take and opine on there. Would appreciate your thoughts given you seem to have some good ideas.

As for the good guy acting good, agreed. But he wouldn't be doing it for sex, but it is disconcerting when he sees guys who are less good (maybe not assholes, but less good), who are seeing her being less innocent around them (even though she may not sleep with them). So is she acting innocent because she likes this good guy then? Why?

Pls reply on mytake, would appreciate some wisdom

[evenlift]

This is yet another attempted rationalization.

Long ago I wrote the definitive myTake on the matter:
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a22747-women-need-to-stop-whining-about-nice-guys

[AssJacket]

Which, in itself, is a rationalization for the bullshit philosophy of selfishness. Go back to masturbating to Ayn Rand photos and let the grownups talk.

[evenlift]

@AssJacket I don't want to be your slave, and that pisses you off.

[Marinepilot]

This is such fucking bullshit ! We've established or I thought we did that women fuck the bad boys, get knocked up, dumped and then come groveling to the nice guys. Which is fucked in my opinion. Then expect us to clean up said bad boys mess. No way I'm driving a used as clunker when I can drive a Ferrari !

[sr1307]

"Nice guys" aren't so nice when they discover that you have the right to reject them, so I've found. A lot of good points in this. Some men assume that if they have been polite to a girl, she does not have the right to turn them down. I don't care how "nice" a guy has been to me, I have the right to choose who I am attracted to.

[evenlift]

If nice guys really believed that you had no right to reject them, you wouldn't feel safe enough to reject them. You wouldn't feel safe enough even to complain about it online.

[AssJacket]

@evenlift Henice why some people correctly point out that the FZ can be dangerous for women if she has a particularly entitled guy on their hands

[JerichoStorm]

@evenlift Some girls ARE afraid to reject them. And when women have been killed for rejecting them, others usually blame the girl, saying that she should have given the guy a chance.

[evenlift]

@JerichoStorm I have never seen either of those cases.

[JerichoStorm]

@evenlift Really.
www.theroot.com/.../
mic.com/.../14-women-were-brutally-attacked-for-rejecting-men-why-arent-we-talking-about-it
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../wisconsin-man-confesses-to-killing-woman_us_56b64050e4b04f9b57d9d6b4
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...troit_n_5945518.html
jezebel.com/wisconsin-man-said-it-was-easy-to-murder-a-woman-after-1757515496
www.cbsnews.com/.../

This tumblr also has many, many to other articles regarding the same type of crime (yes it's tumblr, but it links to newspages): https://whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com/

This one is admittedly also a tumblr, but relies a personal experience of someone's sister rejecting a boy and being threatened with a gun after several of these rejections. And then the comments that resulted from the girl's own friends. Then it continues as the writer explains an experience she had in her Criminal Justice class regarding this particular brand of victim blaming: vampmissedith.tumblr.com/.../when-i-was-a-freshman-my-sister-was-in-eighth

[evenlift]

@JerichoStorm I didn't say that no woman has ever been killed for rejecting a man. That's ridiculous. I said that I have never seen, firstly, girls who don't reject guys because they are afraid, and, secondly, a woman blamed by others for her murder at the hands of a rejectee. With regard to the second, you linked to an article about one attempted murder and one incident that, while criminal and horrible, did not amount even to an attempted murder.

[Truthatanycost]

Yes you do and as soon as you hit the age of 30, you will suddenly find all of those instantly attractive...

[Righttobeararms83]

Good take. I was never the nice guy or friendzoned guy I was always the bad guy or sometimes tge bastard and women responded to this projection of myself. When I got a bit older and wiser seeing much of the world I got tired of the drama the bad persona tends to draw from women who like that and developed myself into the man I wanted to be and found a good christian girl that I could love and respect both as a person and a lover. But hey thr things you wish you were taught when you were young.

[Anonymous]

I'm currently turning into a good man. The problem with nice guys like myself are that I'm just happy hanging out. I just went along with everything because I was happy to be there. Eventually I decided to go after things that I wanted and if that did not involve the girls then so be it. I don't know why but women see that as being assertive. Long story short just do what you want even if it does not involve the girls. For some reason they view you as more manly when you do that.

[HelloEveryone123456]

Well I'm a complete asshole...

But I can fuck for hours...

Yet at the same time, I'm socially "shy," on the surface and have trouble starting conversations...

Strange combination, huh?

I think "being nice," went out the window years ago...

Which sucks because sometimes there are people facing real problems like brain tumors and I'm so used to being selfish that it takes me a while to change into being empathetic...

[Bandit74]

Nah, the biggest difference between nice guys and good guys is just that the good guy is more attractive and typically has more confidence and better social skills, especially when it comes to flirting.

[John_Doesnt]

I should start a drinking game for every time someone posts a myTake on "nice guys" vs. "other guys".

[LittleMissCuriousity]

This is an interesting take. I appreciate the distinctions, and agree. That having been said, I'm not sure "weakness" is the right word.

[Philosopher_Edge]

So basically... 'A Good Man' isn't afraid to tell a bitch to hit the curb if she fucks up? Good to know.

[Anonymous]

I find it so strange how women seem to write so many takes on the good man bad man and things a man should do. No wonder men are pulling away. If i was a guy i would pull away too

[Scrambledagain]

You know what the most saddest thing about this "nice guy" thing is? All the advice out there will tell a guy to work on some things to become more X or Y, but that says something else: who he is to begin with isn't worthy of a girls attraction or romantic interest. Which contradicts the whole "be your self" adage. So that poor guy is fucked unless he changes. His crime? Being overly nice.

[evenlift]

Indeed. More and more men have little or no interest in women. However, almost all women, unlike you, are in denial about it.

[carlitoswayy]

@Scrambledagain pretty accurate brother.

its really sad lol.

[Scrambledagain]

@carlitoswayy thanks man;) I know how this shit roles.

[bloodmountain1990]

@Scrambledagain Yeah it's like be yourself, but being yourself isn't working. Absolute mindfuck. I'd argue that the worst is when you're struggling repeatedly and don't know the reason you're struggling. Like you could hit it off with a girl initially and they seem genuinely interested but end up ghosting on you.

[Truthatanycost]

I pulled away years ago and am purely a window shopper now (when I can be bothered).

[Anonymous]

The problem with being told you're nice is you get lumped in with the self proclaimed nice guys and seen as weak, lacking confidence, and a pushover. It's like being nice has a more negative stigma than a good one.

[worldscolide]

So I guess I fit in the good guy portion... Makes me feel better