Why Guys Shouldn't Pay For Dates

[Giavelto]

Why Guys Shouldn't Pay For Dates - Giavelto

Feb 14, 2015

Hey everyone, happy Valentine's Day. I'd like to get into something I've been thinking about lately.

Today I saw a date deal-breaker on another thread here on G.A.G. that really pushed my buttons:

When men don't pay for the date

Excuse me but I thought this was 2015. Personally, I absolutely hate it when girls assume that because the person taking them out is a guy, he is obligated to pay for the entire outing/meal. For me, it just seems really manipulative for a girl to ask a guy she is not even in a relationship with to pay for her and everything they do on that date. Moreover, I would argue that men SHOULDN'T pay for girls they're not exclusive with for the following reasons:

1. She could easily be stringing you along for the free meal, outing, etc. At least if things don't work out between you two, you were out doing fun stuff without paying for someone else other than you.

2. Paying creates expectations. In the past, if a guy took a girl out for dinner and paid for her meal, it was arguably part of the deal that she would come back to his place. If you're in a relationship, that can be a cute gesture to pay for your SO, but if this is someone you're non-exclusive with, it's a slippery slope. Especially if this is something expensive like a nice dinner, this can really suck if not everything goes according to your plan of paying for her.

3. Paying sets a bad precedent. If things really do take off with this girl, do you really want to pay for her all the time? You should make it clear you'd like to be her boyfriend, not her ATM. Unless you're a rapper or someone with cash to burn, I'd recommend not going down this path.

4. Paying does her a disservice as a person. If paying for your date is something you really don't want to do, but feel obligated because you want to get with this girl, then clearly she is seeing her value as something that can be cashed in for jewelry, food, etc. This is likely not always going to be the case in her life going forward. Standing up to your date's expectations will likely help her be a happier, healthier person in the long run and might be a good reality check for her.

5. Refusing to pay makes you look like a boss. It is hard to deny that there are few things that women love more than confidence. Well how confident does that make you look if you stick to what you believe in and tell this person that's not how you want to be treated? Even if she storms off in a huff afterwards, you can feel secure in the knowledge that you set your boundaries and cleared space in your life for someone better to come along.

Cheers guys/gals, let me know what you think in the comments below!

[Jack766]

I believe in paying for the date, because, as the male, I'm hoping I can get her to join me for a meal instead of sitting at home by herself, which she could be genuinely content to do. So I believe it's the male's position to make the date as easy on her as possible, so she doesn't have to worry about anything. I will even pick her up, though usually these days they prefer to meet you, which is fine. I believe it's important that I can demonstrate that I have means, as well as intention. As for creating expectation, I don't do that. The objective of the evening is make her comfortable around me and she can't do that if she's worried about declining the inevitable invitation back to my place. I never assume I will get any reciprocation on the first date at all. The first date is to see if she likes me, that's all. And to see if I like her as well. If she insists on paying, I will let her, but so far that's never happened. At the end of the date I will ask if she had a nice time, and that's the most pressure I put on her at all. Could she be using me for a free meal? Yes, but women like that are part of the landscape, and I can usually tell them apart from others. So what if I lose a bit of money? I have more. I'm not rich, but I see that as part of the effort. It's not worth it to put upon a girl that she should pay just to prove she's not in a usury way. I'd rather assume all women are good, then let them prove otherwise one at a time. So, how successful is this approach? It sounds like it would get a second date, doesn't it? Well, unfortunately no. I'm still single and dates are very rare, 2nd dates never happen. Women just don't seem to be interested in guys like me these days. So, OP perhaps has the better advice. But I can't do it. I'm just me, and I really enjoy taking the girl out and taking care of everything. I don't really want to change because it would make it hard to like myself.

[Giavelto]

Ouch. I'm sorry to hear that man. That took courage to say. In this take I was focusing more on girls who feel that the guy should "pay to play" as it were.

Of course every person ought to decide for themselves how they feel about different elements of dating. If both people are cool with the guy picking up the tab, I see no problem with that as long as both people are honest about what's going on and both have all the information.

We all have dry spells though, hang in there man. The best thing we can do while we wait for better people to come along is just try to be happy, be ourselves, and remember that dates do not make or break us as human beings. You sound like you really care about the girls you do take out though, and I really respect that. They're lucky to spend time with someone who treats them so well.

[Jack766]

thanks for the encouragement.

[Account]

I agree with you, apart from 5 :p. I don't think refusing to pay makes you look like a boss, neither does it show that you have confidence. Plus, not all women like confident guys, sheesh!

[XRabbitHeartX]

In my country or at least in my culture it's still common for guys to pay or at least pay in the start. I always offer but majority of the time the guy will say he'll pay. I've never in my life expected a guy to keep paying for me (number 2 and 3) and I actually think it's a really good sign of a guy being a gentleman. Like i said, I don't know if this is just my culture differences speaking but here it's a common sign of a guy taking care of you and treating you to something nice. I always look at it as a sign of respect too and lots of guys pride themselves on taking a girl out on a special date.

I've never dated a English guy though so I wouldn't know if it's more of a English thing to split the bill perhaps. I've only ever dated guys from my own culture.

[ScruffyNerfHerder]

Well it's rather strange how often this topic has come up recently. By and large, I agree, a few lines of reasoning I'm not entirely on board with, but not going to break things down, since the same conclusion is reached: guys shouldn't always foot the bill.

Since it's relevant, I will copy/paste an answer I gave the other day.

During one of my most active dating periods, over the course of the month, I had 23 dates with 15 different women (yeah, compressed schedule--I was bored, what can I say). Imagine how much money I would have spent had I paid for a dinner every night. Let's say $40 for both, including tips --that comes to $920 (12 months at that pace would be $11040)

So there are a few solutions I adopted:

If it's a dinner, she pays for her own meal, or for both of us (if a girl really likes you, she will sometimes want to, so let her; you can even use it as a test to see if she likes you).

If it's just coffee, I'll pay for both, no need to be cheap over $2.

Better yet, just don't go to dinner or do anything expensive. Dinners are awful dates anyways, unless you are already deep into a relationship with the girl (in which case you aren't going on 23 dates a month, so you can afford to treat her).

The best dates are cheap, pressure free for both of you, and allow you both to be relaxed and focus on getting to know each other through conversation... or more, should you choose.

Pouring a ton of money into dating is impractical financially and has no bearing on whether or not she's going to like you (unless she's the type of girl you don't want anyway). Plus, she has a job, so when there's a larger bill, why shouldn't she contribute?

Hopefully that's useful to someone ;)

[Giavelto]

That's actually really good advice Scruffy. I agree that often paying for the whole thing really has no bearing on if the other person likes you or not. People's personalities should shine, not their money.

[MaskedSanity]

^ This man knows his shit.

[GoodManDave]

I get what you're saying, and to a point, I agree.

If I ask the woman out, it's my treat - the first time. I'm showing her a level of respect. Of course, most of my first few dates would be something I could pay for and not lose sleep over. No dinners at fancy restaurants. And no, I don't expect anything other than she's respectful to me (as I would be with her). Of course, I'm not looking for a sexual date, so that expectation is gone.

I think that whoever does the asking, pays for the FIRST date. That's usually the man who does the asking. I think it's a bad idea to do a first date fancy dinner as much as I think a movie or expensive pop up carnival (they cheat you at those places) is a poor first date idea.

Yes, she can get her own door... but I'll still open the door for her from time to time. I'll get her chair if it's not weird to do it. I don't mind any of that.

But past the third date, if she's not contributing, then forget it. - Unless it's a date based on the whole sugar daddy idea and it's clear to the both of you all those expectations, then... ok. Otherwise, if she doesn't at least OFFER to pay her own way by date three, then she's expecting you pay for everything, and in my world, that's a time to "cut her loose."

[geekylady]

As a womanl, I'm always ready to share the bill, I've come to a couple of really weird situations. One time, this guys that was my friend wanted to go to a Muse concert, since I love Muse he asked me if I wanted to join him, so I said yes! We both got the tickets, I paid for mine and he paid for his. Later I found the train schedule and told him the time at we should take it and that at the station we could take a taxi. He agreed to my plans and I was so excited! Then the day of the concert he told me that he had rented a car to go, I was like "okay, maybe he just wants to drive" then at the concert I got my own beer and snaks, etc... After the concert we were returning home (we lived in the same building) we stopped at a gas station and he said "give me 10 for gas" so I did, of course. But after we got home, he told me that renting the car was $140 and that I should give him half by he morning. I was really upset, because I had plans that consulted with him, I never planned for a rental and it was more expensive than the concert itself. I did not say anything and I gave him the money but I never hang out with him again,

Then another time, I was out on a date, we had a great dinner and a great time, after eating and he paying we went for a walk and we stopped at this place to have some drinks so I said "drinks are on me since you paid for dinner" and smiled and was kind about it but this guy went nuts, he was really upset and said that he didn't need me to pay for his drink, that he would pay for it and he even mentioned that it was disrespectful from my end to even think about paying. Seriously WHAT THE FUCK! I felt really bad after that and said it wasn't my intention to offend him that I was just being nice. So I left, took my car keys and left home. After these situations I'm clueless, I always offer to share the bill and I'm always ready to pay and be nice, but some people is just so hard to please. However, I agree that WE shouldn't let them pay

[MaskedSanity]

I agree with every point except 5.

Not paying doesn't make you look like a boss. It makes you look cheap and stingy. If you offer to split the bill, that's another thing. But if you flat out refuse to pay anything, you're gonna come off as one of those bitter MGTOW men, that will at the drop of a hat start asserting about how it's the 21st century, "I though you women wanted equality", then go online and boast to their bitter online buddies about how your "showed that bitch".

It can also backfire, since after you showed your "bossness", she can just storm out and leave you with the bill anyway.

No, men DO NOT have to pay. To assume that a man will is entitled and just so full of shit.

A man CAN pay, out of his own free will, because he wants to make a nice gesture towards the woman he fancies. But it's by no means an obligation.

Protip: Don't take women you just met to expensive restaurants. First dates should be about meeting and getting to know each other, so if you spend your time in a movie and then stuffing your faces, not much will be found out and you may have wasted a lot of money on a person that wasn't very compatible, but you only found out 2-3 dates later.

Take her to a coffee shop, cafe, a picnic and just TALK.

[Anonymous]

If he askes me out, he should pay. If he doesn't want to, we could do something else that's less costly. I understand, im not rich either. But DO NOT ask me to go out to eat and make me pay especially the first few dates when were not official. I might offer to pay, but don't expect me to. I will give you the same courtesy. If I ask you to go somewhere, I'll make sure I can afford it. This is a dealbreaker for me too.

[Opinion Owner]

I offer to pay when I can. Sometimes I'm not able too. If you ask me out and I know km expected to pay, I simply won't go.

[Giavelto]

Do you mean pay for your half or the whole thing?

[Opinion Owner]

If you ask me out somewhere out of the blue, expect to pay for the whole thing. I might offer to pay, but don't count on it. If we've been planning this event I definitely will be prepared to pay for at least half, if not the whole thing. Basically, if you ask me to go somewhere and i didn't have advance notice, your paying for it. And Vice verca.

[TripleAce]

I hate it, I once went on 5 dates in one week. I mean dating is dating right, we all want to go out and find who's a good match so one date doesn't always cut it

Anyways, that week cost me 100 per date :/ I mean 500 for 5 dates and then seconds dates? Yea right

2 of the girls expect it and told me they just go on dates sometimes to just get out (obviously there not paying a dime)

The last girl I dated, i sat there at the bar with her. Ordered whatever she wanted. The bill was about 120. She didn't even offer cover a part of it

Sometimes I'd go eat with girls, casually. It's very rare they will go into their purses and take out money

I understand the idea of a man paying for a date, but now I'm more the type that if Im actually with you/pursuing you then I'll pay more often, and now rarely first dates I'll pay because of the experiences some girls showed me

[posted]

I generally avoid it, I work a lot (physical) as well so I like to just chill after a long busy day, which sometimes goes form 7:30am to midnight lol. So generally I see if she wants to come over and watch a movie and just cuddle or some shit. Theatres dont let you talk or anything, dinner is just pricey and I dont eat all day so, nope already ate. Maybe coffee but I'd prefer to just be alone to talk with a girl and not get a bunch of weird stares if either/both of us are being weird/funny/loud.

Been to a few movies, those girls didn't even want food. I twisted one girls arm and she got a drink, the other we walked in literally as the movie started (late!).

One girl really wanted me to go buy her a coffee which kind of bugged me...

Generally I don't care, it's a bit of money, sure as fuck not wasting 30-60$ on a girl I may never see again, but I do agree with a guy I saw before who said he won't pay for dates with girls, but he'll pay if one becomes his girlfriend.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry but I can't take this take serious. It sounds like a sick joke or a high schooler wrote it. Not every woman expects the guy to pay for everything, especially these days and times. I've never INSISTED on any man paying for me, even my current BF and we've been together several years. I've had dates in the past who INSISTED on paying and it always made me feel bad so I'd leave the $12 that I was gonna pay for my half for the tip even if he had a tip there just so I could say that I paid my share. I'm not a stengy woman.

[Belleza2]

#5 is bullshit and this is my theory - he asks me out, he pays! I ask him out, I pay! However, if your smart you will notice when a girl is shy and doesn't want to eat something expensive - she isn't stringing you Along for any ride, you will know when a girl is like that - you will just know! I understand 2015 but half the time when any guy asks a girl out its for the sex and nothing else, then when you get her to know in the long run - it's different, but note before any moron decides to say not all guys are the same, I did mention half the time...

Yes there are women who use you however that doesn't Mean all girls are the same and the same thing goes for men too

[JustAnotherPassenger]

There are 3 ways:

1. The men pays, he's the lead in the relationship, he is "the man".
2. The girl pays, she's the lead in the relationship, she is "the man".
3. 50/50, no one gets angry, and if you are not an insecure man, you shouldn't have any problem with this one.

Of course, it is a matter of circumstance and that only works for when you are already in a relationship. For dates, usually if the girl asks to me, she pays.

In my last relationship, I was "the man", but I never put my that girl in a pedestal, nor she was arrogant and thinking she deserved everything for almost nothing, we ended the relationship because she was going to study outside, and it was really sad for both. We did never had any disagreements regarding to who was leading the relationship or any kind of "ego struggle".

PST: And no, arbitrarily denying to pay the dinner doesn't makes you look like a boss -maybe inside your head-, it just makes you look like a stingy prick.

[Prettykangaroos]

This reminds of when women get offended when someone holds the door open for them. It's stupid. I for one hold the door open for men, women, and everyone in-between. Why does paying for the date have to do with gender roles? Whoever asks, pays. Or else, split it down the middle. Sometimes paying for a date is a nice gesture. I've paid for a whole date before, so why can't the man do the same? Oh, and refusing to pay does NOT make you look like a boss.

[AdamThomas]

I don't worry too much about this. I pay on the first date which is usually just drinks - dinner dates are awkward, boring and expensive, drinks aren't. If she doesn't offer to pay next time (most girls do) then I'll just stop talking to her and go find someone else.

[Geist]

Usually if I'm going out on a date I want to pay for my own stuff and he pay for his own. Just go Dutch. I find if a guy has too much ego to let the girl pitch in, it feels kinda strange.

[Giavelto]

Agreed. It's often a pride thing with guys I think.

[Anonymous]

kinda like men who think they SHOULD get sex if they pay? LOLOLOLOL

[MellyMarie]

I guess I'm pretty traditional when it comes to this stuff. If a man wants to take me out on a date then I expect him to get the tab. That's my personal preference because it gives me an idea of his upbringing. I like having doors opened for me, wine and dined and so on... It's called chivalry and it is unfortunate that men who practice it is a dying breed. My boyfriend would never allow me to pick up the tab even after 2 years of being together. But I have been on first dates where if I figure out on that first date that it won't go any further than a first date, I have offered to split the tab.

[Wade888]

And they don't come up to a 34 years old at college and start a conversation either. You stick out like a sore thumb and you know everyone walking down the hall is thinking, "That guy is here because he's broke..."

Yeah... that happens when they hire the cheerleader before you, or they hire the ex-con or the illegal immigrant before you.

Ex-cons get automatic jobs placement by the way.

May as well, they also seem to get automatic blow jobs from "Nice girls".

[Tirana]

I agree. When someone invites me out, I let them know what I can afford. If they offer to pay, I'm not going to say no, but I'm honest from the first question. If someone outright asks if I'm hungry, then follows up with "I'll get..." I assume they are paying. I pay for my friends all the time, because I can and I see nothing wrong with it. If I can afford it, and I offered, I'm not gonna be mad when they don't fork over money. Its all about honesty and circumstances.

[The_Technomancer]

I judge the control of a relationship based on how much the other person does in the relationship. If I'm the one giving gifts and paying for things then I'm going to be in control of the relationship. Although honestly I'd rather have an equal partner.

[onikage]

multiple females have told me they expect the guy to pay or whoever asked to go out to pay which is typically the guy. females that actually do the "dutch" thing or pay for their dates are rare for it is not the societal norm. with that being said 1 and 3 actually go hand in hand and doesn't matter whether your dating or not for the same things can happen