Pick up artists - Truths/Myths

Pick up artists - Truths/Myths

So I wrote a take on Dating as an Asian male. A lot of the comments that arose from that were related to Pick up Artists (PUAs) so I thought I'll do a take on that.

First off I don't consider myself a 'pick up artist' or PUA by any means even though I've read a lot of their stuff, studied their materials and even used their materials. PUA is big business, do a google/youtube search and 1000s of videos will pop-up. I first read and applied their materials about 6-7 years ago. I'm not really in the 'scene' so to speak, but of course I have done what most young guys my age do - go out and try to pick up girls with LOTS of trial and error as well as following the aforementioned techniques. Now I've dated my share of girls (~50+), 'picked-up' and slept with many as well. I've also been in long term relationships too (currently in one now). So I feel I have reasonable ancidotal evidence/experience to write this take.

Since the explosion of PUA in the last 5 or so years, they've been getting a lot of hate. Some of it is due to a lack of understanding of what PUA really is (at least in my opinion).

So here is my personal and honest opinion on 'pick-up'. The good and the bad. Again these are my opinions. They will offend some people as opinions always do.

What is PUA?

- PUA is a big business now. It's money driven and targetted towards a growing number of lonely and sexually frustrated men. A lot of the marketting over-sells what PUA really is or is capable of. And unfortunately these men are none the wiser. They become disappointed with the results and will eventually conclude: 'PUA is rubbish because it's all about looks/money/height/race!'

- Despite its name. When it comes down to it, PUA is really just learning to how present yourself in an attractive way to women. It's not really a 'manipulative tool' that people make it out to be. Women are not idiots, they know what is really going on when you approach them asking them for their opinion on 'who lies more'. By suggesting that PUAs able to manipulate women into bed with basic conversational skills, is like implying that women are stupid enough to fall for these 'tricks'.

- Most PUAs I've met are nice genuine people.

- Some PUAs are ego driven douchebags. Some of them are/were 'loser/nerds' in school without ever having success with women. When they do experience some success their heads explode and egos go through the roof. But I guess you'd find these types of people in all different areas/hobbies in life.

- A minority of PUAs do have some sort of vendetta/hatred towards women. They feel that women have mistreated them their entire life and now that they can use/abuse the women they do get. Again, this type of men are in all areas of life.

Does PUA really work?

- Yes.. and no. Most of us (99%) will be limited when in comes to dating in some way - whether this is physical appearance, wealth etc. PUA will not change that.

- PUA will not be effective if the operator (guy) has poor social skills, physically very unattractive, any major disability and doesn't have basic things in life down pat (has a job, some where to live etc). Unforunately these are draw backs that aren't really compensated for just by 'knowing what to say'.

- PUA is NOT magic. It will not allow the average guy to start pulling 10/10 models. PUA is learning how to present yourself in the best way so that you give yourself the best chance. So if you are a 5/10 guy, you will now succesfully and with consistency pull the 5-6/10 girl.

- PUA is a skill. Like any other skill it takes time to learn and get good at it. Some are naturally good at it, others will take longer to achieve the same level of competency.

- Like any skill, without consistent practice one will not get good at PUA and therefore won't work.

PUA is not about long term relationships:

- Yes and no again.

- No, it isn't about long term relationships: Because its engineered around approaching lots and lots of women. To an average lay person this might feel like the complete opposite of finding that one partner or special someone. Also a lot of PUAs will have a particular reputation about them.

- Yes it is about long term relationships: because how does a long term relationship begin? You see an attractive girl. You approach the girl. You say Hi. You capture her attention, you get into an interesting/good conversation. You get her contact details. You text. You set-up a date. Everything up until this point is what PUA emphasises and getting to the date is arguably the most difficult part for most men. Yes, the goal of PUA is sex, but to get there is where 95% of the work is done. The same work that needs to be done if you were to pursue a long term relationship. Therefore, getting good at PUA does help you find and more importantly ACTUALLY GET that special someone.

Got questions?

Ask me below, I'll do my best to answer them.


1|3
3|18

Join the discussion

0/2500

Submit

What Girls Said 3

  • Reminds me of Hitch except in that movie he helps guys get the one girl they are in love with.

    0|0
    0|1
    • I think that is a romanticised idealised version. Unfortunately for many men that will never really work. Hence why PUA is needed for some men.

    • Show All
    • Thanks for that. You've helped me understand PUA's. In short PUA's = Shit.

    • Thanks for helping me understand you. You = idiot.

  • If this is true, I am utterly disgusted at the mistreatment of feelings. May PUA burn in hell.

    1|1
    0|2
  • I guess PUAs are hated on because most of the media they ever get is negative.

    0|2
    0|0

What Guys Said 18

  • Got link to your take on dating as an Asian male?

    0|0
    0|0
  • s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...3c17f53e8f.jpg

    I think lots of dudes overcomplicate this.

    0|2
    0|0
    • You are right, for an average person with normal social skills this is all you have to do. Unfortunately there's heaps of guys who can't even do this, because they are too shy or have weird mannerisms that even if they walk up and say hi they will get turned down. I think for guys who aren't well developed socially, PUA can be a useful tool.

  • I don't see why the approaching/dating lots of women part is looked down upon. I'm not going to settle down until I've experience women to the fullest extent I can. That's not immoral, its simply gaining life experience.

    0|3
    1|1
    • I understand why many women and men look down upon it, but in reality 'picking up' women is really just starting conversations with strangers of the opposite sex and learning to become more comfortable doing so.

      A lot of women don't understand that in many ways it is necessary for men to be proactive and approach/talk to women. Women get be passive and get approached. Every time they get approached they are practicising their social skills talking to strangers of the opposite sex, and so throughout a woman's lifetime, 'practising' this skill is never an issue because men make the move. On the other hand if a man is passive, he will not develop these skills necessary to talk to women, until one day in his 20s when he finally does, he will get shot down because he was too nervous, too needy, not confident enough etc (basically didn't represent himself correctly) and also because there is a massive imbalance in experience between the 2 parties.

  • You are right... PUA had become a business these days and I admit that I have read a lot of stuff regarding this. I have reached a conclusion that many (or dare I say most) of the PUAs are bullshit and I have never been sure which one to actually follow or trust. Then they come up with all kinds of products like meeting women online, club dating, how to approach women etc. When I think retrospectively I was probably doing much better with women before getting into PUA. Only one book that I really found helpful was Mark Redman's Conquer Your Campus, which dealt with college specific game. He genuinely stressed in the book that instead of learning lines and tricks we should be focussing on personality aspects like being dominant, being fun, easygoing and being a leader. But you are right, all of us who read PUA will be limited by one thing or another. Do you suggest any material or product which actually is genuine, when it comes to dating instead of PUA?

    0|2
    0|0
    • I think the book you've read is quite accurate. Rather than focussing on specific lines and openers, focus on developing yourself as a person. Try to be open, sociable, fun and make it a point to meet new people. Your pick-up skills will naturally improve. Personally, I found PUA helpful for learning the theory behind what women find attractive (as from my experience, this is mostly accurate). The actual techniques they teach can be hit or miss. I may have one or two lines that I've acquire through PUA to help me in difficult situations or situations where I run out of things to say, but generally I've learn't to improve with women by focusing on the core attributes that are attractive rather than specific techniques.

      In terms of actual material instead of PUA. You can try a book called 'Way of the superior man'. It doesn't teach any techniques, but rather discusses theory on the way women think - and in my opinion its accurate. And if anything else, its an interesting read.

    • Show All
    • Have you read this Tao of Badass Book by Joshua Pellicer... do you think there is some genuine good advice there.

    • No I haven't read that book. I think you are on the right track though. Just go out and socialise a lot, best way to learn is through practice.

  • about your point where you talk about guys who see women as lower then them, because they've been getting mistreated by women their whole lives for whatever reason, and now that they can get girls they use women for sex to get back at them... do you think these men are understable in their attitude and treatment of women because of the way women have treated them throughout their lives?

    0|0
    0|0
    • Definitely understandable but doesn't make it right. Kind of like how adults who've been sexually abused during childhood are at a higher rate of committing sexual abuse later in life. I can understand how having a rough childhood predisposes someone to committing that crime, but its still a crime.

    • Show All
    • Personally, I don't think it is justified. It's not that difficult to just be honest/upfront about your intentions and you can potentially save yourself a lot of trouble and the other person a lot of emotional heartache.

      I've been overlooked by women in the past for being a 'nerd' or whatever the reason is. I also know men who've overlooked women with great personalities for being too fat, too short, too ugly. It goes both ways. Still, I don't feel the need to treat women poorly.

    • once again, a lot of women aren't just looking for a hookup, and if you are honest about your intentions, you won't get to have sex with them. i know women like sex but a lot of them wouldn't have sex with a guy unless they've been going out for a while and she has developed real feelings for him, and thinks he feels the same. these women would make the best targets for such a guy.

  • They play the numbers game and prey on the weak an insecure. I read a book about when I was younger think meal Strauss said how he got into the community and done of the masters were lonely losers who had no success in life but approaching insecure woman.

    0|0
    0|1
  • Was about to make this take actually lol. Awesome read. There's this unfair signed with pick up artists. This stuff should be taught in high school.

    0|1
    0|0
  • The PUA community is like the blind leading the blind. Many of the coaches don't get laid that often, and when they do it's because of the sheer number of women they approach e. g. Yad from daygame. com has mentioned that he would approach women on Oxford Street in London for 12 hours a day. A man who is actually good with women doesn't need to go to that extreme.

    0|2
    0|0
    • That's because a certain percentage of what makes you good with women or not cannot be influenced by 'game'. Things such as facial features, physical appearance, grooming etc. Some men will always have more advantage than others and yes those men do not need 'game'. Those who are less unfortunate in those areas will need to compensate with 'game'.

      The comparison is like Messi vs Ronaldo (this is controversial example), while both are talented, a lot of people say Messi is pure talent while Ronaldo is talent plus hard work. But at the end of the day they are both world-class footballers. Whether a person is naturally good with girls or 'acquired' through practice, the end result is the about the same.

    • Show All
    • @AdamThomas dude you couldn't be more right. Even I've found this PUA thing to be quite counter-productive. Most of the PUAs are bullshit.

    • And yeah, personally I disagree with some of their techniques, hence I don't really consider myself a pickup artist. A lot of what I do now was arrived through trial and error on my own as well as studying their materials. Having said that, A LOT of what they teach is accurate though in my opinion, especially the theory side of things of what a woman is attracted to and also the basic principles of their techniques I think is accurate.

      Interestingly, the game and 'Mystery's Method' is very old now and as with every 'art', its constantly evolving. I'm pretty sure the exact techniques Mystery devised 10-20 years ago aren't so effective today. Personally, I've found the newer techniques taught today are better and more applicable to the average guy. I mean not every guy wants to 'peacock' and wear black nail polish as Mystery did.

  • Great! Very honest and to the point.

    0|1
    0|0
  • PUA is not only about sex, it's about approaching, meeting new people etc..

    1|3
    0|0
  • i dont really know what PUA techniques are, but if they are just conversation starters basically, and encouraging men to approach, i think thats great!

    There are way too many men who think things are supposed to just fall into their lap, or they won't even approach for fear of rejection. If i had to put together a "PUA" program, i would just give the guy some conversation starters, and tell him to use them on every girl he's attracted to. Nothing cauvinistic about that at all.

    But like i said, i dont know enough about real PUA techniques to comment on them

    0|1
    0|0
  • BS. Girls are attracted to personality/ that is the main point of PUA and game. nothing else.

    0|0
    0|1
  • I agree that much of the distaste for PUAs is misunderstanding. Just learning the skills of a PUA does not denote an interest in casual sex, even if it is a skill often associated with that. People learn skills like salesmanship and bartering just for the sake a skill, too. I read some of Neil Strauss' work just to learn how to meet people.

    I also agree that pickup art is not a magic solution for everybody, but that that does not mean it's valueless.

    0|1
    0|0
  • It is hilarious to me that women on this site say that the guy had confidence because he walked right up to me and talked to me and asked m out... Straight out of the Pick Up Artist handbook, lol. Women should studybPUA in order to spot these guys.

    These guys actually lack confidence which is why they look for a cheap trick.

    0|0
    0|5
    • or just know how to get laid?

    • I never needed such a thing and I look down on it, but, that attitude may be why I never needed it.

    • It's true that most guys don't need it. Guys were getting girls since the dawn of time and now we need a pick up manual? Nah.

      But having said that, this would still work if the girl knew what was going on. Its essentially triggering attraction switches in girls. PUA is not really a bag of tricks, its just giving guys without confidence/awkward something to say when they approach girls so they aren't lost in conversation. Its like if a girl read a manual on how to do her hair better and apply make up better, and even if we knew she's been reading a manual, we would still be attracted to her if the make up and hair made her more attractive.

  • I would like to ask your opinion on league mobility.

    0|0
    0|0
    • I assume you mean dating girls outside of your league? I. e. more attractive than you are. It's pretty difficult, its definitely much easier to stay within your league

    • I meant increasing your league so that I CAN get higher than my natural league.

    • Yes it is possible, but still largely confined in my opinion as there's so many things one can't change about themselves. But things you can do to maximise your 'league':
      - Dress as well as you can
      - Get a good haircut
      - Workout and try to achieve a good physique
      - Have a successful career
      - Try to develop an attractive personality

  • You want to know what PUA stands for! Pick Up Asshole! I agree that PUA is a huge business now and it has gotten so big that women know about and know a lot of techniques and magic little lines, they know kino tricks and stuff like that. Basically PUA isn't fresh and original anymore because all they have don't is invented a whole bunch of damn copycats!

    0|0
    0|1
  • where is the other take you wrote?

    0|0
    0|0
    • "So if you are a 5/10 guy, you will now succesfully and with consistency pull the 5-6/10 girl."

      i don't do pua, but what's the point then if this is all it can teach you? any guy can get girls who are about on the same level as them on the looks scale. guys who don't want to learn how to get girls who are 5's and 6's. guys want to be able to get girls who are from 7/10 upwards. if you will just be able to get girls who are about as attractive as you then why bother with it at all?

    • Show All
    • The other thing is looks are subjective. But the interesting thing is go to some 'PUA forums' where they post pictures of themselves and women they slept with. Personally I found the so called '8/10, 9/10s' they were sleeping with were average or slightly above average and actually around the same attractiveness as the guy. The holds true in my experience too. I'd personally rate myself around 6-7/10 (on looks alone). Yes there is the odd occasion I'd pull a 9, but 90% of the time I'm getting girls 'within my league'. The difference is, with 'PUA' I can consistently get girls that I come across within 6-7/10, whereas before I would still fail with lots of girls within that range. My success with women higher than me has improved too but its still highly inconsistent.

  • Would you deny that it's (they are) chauvinistic?

    0|0
    0|3
    • I wouldn't generalise to say PUAs are chauvinistic, since chauvinistic men come from all walks of life.

    • How is that a reason? I didn't say nothing else is chauvinistic, merely that this is.

Loading...