Women: Equality or chivalry?

You can't have it both.
Sure you can DEMAND both but that doesn't mean you should or will get it.

Chivalry was something done for women when they were considered incapable of doing things by themselves.
Nowadays that thing no longer applies.

  • Equality
    52% (26)2% (1)30% (27)Vote
  • Chivalry
    26% (13)15% (6)21% (19)Vote
  • I am an entitled hypocrite and i want both!
    20% (10)12% (5)16% (15)Vote
  • I'm a guy and i want to laugh at the results
    2% (1)71% (29)33% (30)Vote
And you are? I'm a GirlI'm a Guy

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Most Helpful Guy

  • Some women do want equality then you got those nutcases out there who do feel that way. I honestly do see that double standard yes.

    I've had dinner paid for by a girl, and offers to pay for my coffee. I've also had the door held open for me yes. It's not as "red carpet rolled out" as "holding the door open" sounds. It's just common courtesy.

    All you gotta do to protect yourself from the hypocrites who want "both" is to keep your dates simple and these parasites have no power. I'm sure that girl they're trying to give a reality show to that wants to "date at every restaurant" paid for will still find unsuspecting victims, but just keep money outta the question and these gold diggers will have no one to go after overtime and these girls end up with a shit reputation.

    For me personally, I never get gold dug by these hypocrites because if she won't meet me for a cup of coffee, chances are she wanted a free meal yes. Keeping in line with a good set of standards will leave these hypocrites dry and lonely and they'll either stay single forever, or decide to become an adult.

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    • Already picked MHO but if you would have been sooner with your answer YOU would have been the new MHO.
      Priceless reply.

What Girls Said 38

  • how exactly does wanting a guy to be polite and treat you like another human being make you an "entitled hypocrite"? or, a better question, what exactly does an UN-chivalrous person act like? if a girl says she wants to be treated as her partner's equal, as in, to not be looked down on, patronized, or otherwise told she can't do something because of her parts, and instead be encouraged to do whatever she wants within a human's power, does that mean she's condemned to said partner letting doors smack her in the face or having to foot every single bill for the rest of their lives, or somehting like that? Or, in reverse, can a girl have a guy who will help carry and open things when needed and hold doors and pay for things occassionaly, but then only have that guy treat her like she owes him and has to do things that are "women's jobs"?

    personally, I've always hated how a) a guy treating a girl nicely means that she has to be his housekeeper, supposedly, and act inferior because of her genes, and b) how equality has to mean this borderline survivalist, incredibly rude sense of every man-and-woman-in-a-relationship-for-themselves. my fiance and i, for example - i cook some things, he cooks some things, i open doors, so does he. we help each other with chores and small tasks just because we can at any given moment. yet, still, if one of us is short on money the other will pay for something completely. we share things and neither of us tell each other that the other has to do something because "you're the girl/guy". i think we're both equal and, as most people seem to forget even while talking about how responsibilities of any kind should never be put on one gender (i'm looking at the radical feminists who don't even know what they're talking about here, i should say that chivalry is something a girl can do too. so i treat my fiance as my equal, he treats me as his, and i am courteous to him, and he's courteous to me.
    it's that simple.

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    • "a) a guy treating a girl nicely means that she has to be his housekeeper, supposedly, and act inferior because of her genes, and b) how equality has to mean this borderline survivalist, incredibly rude sense of every man-and-woman-in-a-relationship-for-themselves"

      Reality hits hard.

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    • W/e, bye

    • what, you've run out of ways to repeat what you've already said about how i'm inferior because i'm a woman? i'm amazed, i thought maybe you could get one more use out of the thesaurus you must be using to fuel all of these restatings of the same overprocessed sexist arguments.

  • How about equality AND everyone should do nice things for each other too? :D Win-win.

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    • Apparently the 2 guys who downvoted me don't like when people are being nice to each other.

    • that because they are "nice guys" who will only hold the door open for you in order to try to sleep with you :p

  • I would rather a man treat me like a woman, not like a man

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    • So, chivalry.

    • Yes I suppose so. I think so many women are trying to be men these days which is ridiculous. We aren't men. Why are we so ashamed to be a woman?

    • "Why are we so ashamed to be a woman? "
      Dunno, maybe that will be my next question lol :D

  • I prefer equality in my relationship. While I am very appreciative of all the things my fiance does for me and how he takes care of me, I do the same for him. I like to take care if him and buy him things and take him out. Neither of us has a whole lot of money so I would not expect him to spend it all on me. I also don't expect him to do things for me. It's nice, but I don't demand it.

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    • So two guys either really want to pay for everything for their girlfriends and be sugar daddies or something, or they misinterpreted what I said here.

  • Equality. But I don't believe equality and chivalry are mutually exclusive; you can have both. To me, being chivalrous is being kind, considerate, polite, and generous. It's not expecting every dinner to be paid for and every door held open for me, because I want to pay for dinners and I frequently hold the doors open for strangers of both sexes. If both genders treat each other with respect, that's both equality and chivalry to me.
    Are there hypocrites? Yes. I don't like people who go on dates and expect it to be paid for, or who prowl the bars expecting every drink to be gifted to them. You pay for your own shit. If someone wants to treat you, fine, but return the favour and don't expect to be waited on hand and foot, and then complain "there's no good men left" when they don't bow to your every whim.

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  • I want equality and think people should hold the door open for other people because were humans and it's important to be kind to each other. So yeah

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  • Equality. I don't need flowers, having a guy pay for my stuff or having the door held for me. I feel awkward when a guy goes out of his way to be "chivalrous" to me, actually. I dislike the whole concept of "men act, women are", just give me due respect for what I actually DO and we're cool.

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    • So i assume you approached your last partner not sat and waited to be approached? :)

    • There's no partner to speak of, but yeah, I did confess to my crush about liking him. Seeing how I have already attested to never having been in a relationship, you can see how it turned out.

    • He's one of two people I've ever actually been in love with and WANTED to approach, the other one being a gay guy. I'm not saying I think other guys are unworthy, they just don't make themselves known enough. I don't fall in love often, but when I do, it's pretty serious.

  • If you read up on chivalry again you'll find that it was originally a code of conduct for knights, that essentially just put down rules for good, normal decent behavior. A bit idealistic maybe but it wouldn't be bad idea if everyone acted a bit more like it.
    Only a small part was ever about respecting women. And that was worth noting at the time, because more often than not, people treated women as property.

    Now I'm guessing what you mean is holding open doors and I don't know what else? Seriously I don't, fill me in?
    And really I don't mind either way, if he holds open the door that's good. I'd probably think he is polite, if he didn't I probably wouldn't even notice it

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    • So then he shouldn't. Less effort on his part if it's the same for you.

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    • Sir, most, if not all, jobs are available to men. Women have simply gained ground, and in some instances, overtook men in some fields in terms of education and skill. Furthermore, men tend to shy away from fields that are mainly occupied by women. You see where I'm headed with this, right?

      Secondly, to many guys, chivalry and equality does not enter the mindset with regards to dating. Guys, in general, simply feel more masculine and "alpha" if you will when they can pay there woman's way on a date, sometimes, at least. It's the way that many of us were raised. For this reason I say this, regardless of what many men claim and preach, they simply would not feel comfortable dating a woman who's income is significantly more than their own. It's why many successful women are mostly pursued by successful men. Men simply value women more who need their help and appear somewhat vulnerable.

    • Look, just watch this.
      This woman explains better than me:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eqYEVYZgdo

      I don't feel "more alpha" i feel ripped off and have less money in my wallet lol.
      And with women earning now more and the MANcession in full swing that is even less funny.

  • Chivalry isn't doing something for a woman because she can't, it's manners is what it is. Opening doors for people, pulling back chairs, sticking up for people who are being unfairly treated, stepping in when someone needs help... I've always been extremely chivalrous AND I think men are equal to me, so I don't think your question is very valid really. I don't think you don't quite understand what chivalry is...

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    • The down votes from men, come on then guys... be grown ups and tell me why?

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    • All i can do is write "ok" and i would still have the last answer.
      You do realize how idiotic this battle is, right?

    • I understand completely... but truth be told, I'm quite fascinated by the fact you can't stop replying.

  • I... want both. Why can't... I pay for my half of a meal but also have a guy hold the door open for me? I don't see how that's so... bad.

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    • I am not saying it is "bad", i am saying there is no reason for him to - since you are no longer a special snowflake :)
      Enjoy equality.

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    • Heh ad-hominem.
      Trust me i am fine and having the time of my life :)

      bye bye

  • With the right people whom sincerely possess maturity, humbleness, and grace, both are completely realistic.

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    • I didn't ask if they are realistic, i asked if you DESERVE to have both.
      I think you don't.
      Women don't morally deserve both. Logically even,

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    • Terrific answer

    • thanks muliebrity

  • Logical equality.
    As in: I agree that women can be construction workers, and men can be nail designers. However, we are biologically built differently. You can't expect your average woman to be as efficient as your average guy in lifting heavy things. Also since women are built differently, the "being able to be topless everywhere" thing for women is total BS. Typical useless stuff radical feminists fight for.

    Chivalry without the misogyny.
    Men adore women, women respect men. Both treat each other kindly. Men don't see women as second class citizens that can't do jack shit or should be beaten to "put her in her place".

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    • And yet we allow women in the military, police and firefighters.
      How does that work?

      "Women respect men"
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnXCPcq_RTY

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    • @cipher42: breasts are a secondary sexual organs. They develop during puberty, when someone becomes sexually mature. Ankles have always been there since you were born.

    • They aren't. Breasts are meant for feeding babies, nothing more. They develop during puberty because the woman's body is preparing to be able to have children. They have literally nothing to do with sex naturally.

  • Quite a slippery slope you got there. You're saying that if a girl wants a guy to hold doors open for her she shouldn't have the right to vote? Because the former is chivalry and the latter is equality and they're unrelated and very different.

    Now, by your logic. Never expect a woman to do the cooking, cleaning, child rearing, organizing, etc. That's your job now. And if you don't like it, BOOM! Your right to vote and own property should be revoked! EQUALITY OR NOTHING!

    ... does no one get the concept of gender roles?

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    • The right to vote does not take anything from men - in other words, no, i am not against women voting. But nice try though.

      Yes, i can cook, clean and have raised my aunt's son alone - so i can do that quite fine, thank you very much.
      And again you miss the point.

      Voting is a 'victimless' right.
      Equality for women sounds great - i am all for it. now get and pay your own damn way, expect to not be given the seat in a bus, to not have your door held opened, and everything that was up to now female privilege.
      And as for men/woman relations - you are no longer special "because vagina". You need to bring MORE to the table than just your ass.
      Demanding more from the guy is seen as hypocrisy when you offer nothing in return to compensate.
      Capiche?

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    • Misquoting is hilarious keep it coming!
      I said "I like gender roles TO AN EXTENT." Huh I guess you didn't see that part? That's peculiar.
      By that I mean- I'm okay with being the one who tends to the house and in the future, children, and I'm comfortable with the guy being the one who is in charge of finances and stuff like that. But I don't want to be expected to do nothing but cook and clean, and I don't want the guy to be expected to bring home to most money/work the most hours. Its all about agreeing to the roles of the household, not forcing them on someone.

      As for women being more fragile- yes its a fact. MOST women are more fragile than MOST men. Some women are like nails. They excel in an environment such as combat or police work. Likewise some men are fragile and couldn't do it. I never said all women are delicate flowers and all men are macho.
      Never was I hypocritical, either. You're extraordinarily condescending!

    • You personally might not give women that power because of sex but again the vast majority of men do. Sorry but until 51% of men think like you, your little revolution won't happen.

  • I expect equality, but I appreciate chivalry. I grew up with a single mother, so I was always raised to be independent and never rely on any one to get things done for me. So chivalry has never been all that important to me. Is it nice if a guy goes out of his way to open my door or hands me his jacket when it's cold? Well, sure that's quite sweet of him, but it's never something I expect.

    However, I 100% expect equality, and yes that includes financial and decision making equality. For me, I want my relationship to be a partnership. It doesn't mean that every single area needs to be split 50/50 but rather that we're both putting roughly the same amount of effort into the relationship. If my man wants to pay for dates then perhaps I'll make up for it by always cooking dinner or being the one who plans the dates.

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  • It's funny that you're anonymous... troll...

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  • I like chivalry better lol

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  • I preffer chivalry. I am a woman and that makes me different from a man, therefore I find that we should not be treated the same.

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  • I voted for equality, but I still expect guys to be polite. By polite, I don't mean paying for everything or opening every door, but being courteous and respectful to everyone, not just girls they're interested in.

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  • How about respect as a person? I find a man going out of his way in being overly chivalrous to the point it's annoying and someone that wants the ''I only want to split the bill all the time because it's 2014 now'' as two extremes.

    It would be good to be in a relationship with mutual respect and some romance once in a while. For instance, I'll open the door for him if I'm there and he's carrying heavy stuff and vice-versa. It would be good that besides going strictly by the rule of splitting the bill, to once in a while take turns too (one day I'll pay the whole mean and another day he pays). I don't think I'm asking too much here.

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    • Or maybe the problem is simply about being with someone compatible. Someone with a different mentality is what brings arguments in the relationship.

    • perhaps

  • To me a man is still a man, and a women is still a women. I think guys should be willing to spend money on their girl in terms of dating and going out. So should women. My fiance used to spend a lot of money on me in the beginning. Holds my door open till this day, pours me water in. He is korean and there its common to be a gentlemen but in western world I know guys are VERY stingy.
    Either way, I do take him out to good places too, and usually we take turns on paying every day.
    I love to spoil him. I prefer to pay actually but he mostly insists to pay.

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  • I want equality.

    And besides, isn't being nice basically the same thing as chivalry except both girls and guys do it? Hell I open doors for people all the time and what's wrong with giving gifts? Both girls and guys should do it when they're in a relationship.

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    • But they're not. Chivalry is doing nice things for strangers.

    • I think everyone should do nice things for strangers. Like small gestures not anything crazy.

  • I chose both because I like chivalry but I also have no quams about being "chivalrous" for my partner.

    It's more just about doing little things to help them out.. Not because they can't do it, but because of the thought in the gesture.

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  • chivalry !

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    • What about that "equality" stuff?
      Oh and are you in the kitchen now?

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    • as long as the man looks hot i'll cook and clean all day

    • Wow, i am impressed ( no sarcasm ) - and that's hard to do for me :D

  • Your chivalry explanation is wrong. Of course I can open my door. But it is nice to see it from my partner.

    Roles depend on the concept , I think. Like opening door is good when it comes to dating. People should go for whatever they feel comfortable. You don't have to do. There is no wrong, or right.

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  • Wanting both doesn't make me a hypocrite! I want it to be a give and take relationship. Chivalry is great, but I'm gonna take care of my guy when he deserves it as well. As he should, me. Like for ex. If someone asks to out on a date, he will pay. If I ask him out, I'll pay. Or we'll split the bill. I'm no feminist, but I think a good relationship is a give and take one where you care for each other, because you care about each other, because you love them.

    ~16 year old, 2k15

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  • Chivalry? Are we in a Rosamunde Pilcher novel? I don't care for that crap, never did.

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  • Chivalry? hahaha lol, i dont care much for that bit but equality is something that i would like to have in a man

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  • Equality, honestly. At least that's my viewpoint now.
    Because as I get older, maybe the gender roles is what's best for a marriage. I don't know. I am still growing. But for now, equality.

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  • Myself I would take equality over chivalry any time.

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  • Don't need chivalry. I don't require 'special treatment' just because I happen to be a woman.

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    • Good for you ! ( no sarcasm )

  • More from Girls
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What Guys Said 19

  • Equality is the best, but sometimes it's nice to do a bit extra and be chivalrous. "Both" is not as impossible as you make it seem.

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  • Definition of chivalry in this instance: courteous behavior, especially that of a man toward women.
    Synonyms: gallantry, gentlemanliness, courtesy, courteousness, politeness, graciousness, mannerliness, good manners

    There is no reason why chivalry and equality can't coexist. It happens everyday. Your personal definition is simply inaccurate. So long as men and women respect each other, they will probably do nice things for each other and still be equal. It's all good man.
    Your poll sucks.

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    • It's not for you by the way - you don't need to vote.

    • No worries, I didn't vote. Poll still sucks : ]

  • No chivalry was a code of martial conduct which over time became a code of general social conduct. It stressed showing respect for those worthy of it including your social betters and women of the same social standing (and to some extend those of lower classes). Generally this respect involved certain behaviour such as the steriotypes of opening doors, offering them first choice etc. .. And really when the world is so devoid of even the most basic respect, I find it gauling how many people think complaining about a fellow trying to show a little common courtesy, is worth anyones time.

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  • Feminism makes me laugh, men and women will never be the same biologically, mentally or physically and they can't change that

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    • To those (all girls btw) who down voted me, what do you seriously intend to do about the physicality, mental state and biology of men and women to make us the same?

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    • we don't want to BE men.

    • The modern femanists seem to think we are the same... we aren't, you can't do the things we do physically, and we generally don't have the caring nuturing sensitive side you do. To give you an example I was out on a walk and I picked up a huge tree/log that was laying on the ground, and my two female friends couldnt believe I had the strength to do that. When they tried, they couldnt pick it up and they exclaimed "you're so strong" while the other said "thats not fair, how can you do that and I cant".

  • It's an interesting topic I will say that and it made me consider how I have acted through my life in regards to these issues. I, of course, understand the desires and definitions of both but, at the same time, I tend to believe that both can coexist depending on the mutuality of the issue. Frankly, they can exist together with ease.

    I know this poll is targeted in one direction in terms of your desire to have women make their opinions known but the topic caught my eye and, frankly, had me sit back in my chair and consider my own track record a bit and how I have acted. We (people in general) rarely consider things such as this without the question truly allowing for reflective thought.

    Good topic. I can't say I agree (fully) with a part of the statement within the question but overall I see what you are getting at.

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  • Chivalry and equality are not mutually exclusive; I don't know what gave you that idea.

    As you can probably tell, my answer is both. When I'm with someone they are seen and treated as a complete equal, and I also go out of my way to do nice, chivalrous things for them. I do those things not as a comment on her capabilities, but rather out of my own desire to treat her well and take care of her.

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  • You sound like a PUSSAY!

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    • Insults an argument does not make.

    • "Insults an argument does not make."

      C: "I'm an entitled hypocrite and I want both!"

      Practice what you preach.

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  • I think it's possible to give them both? My old man taught me to always treat a woman right whether you like them or not. I don't really follow the statistics but isn't the pay gap between men and women getting smaller? I think we're pretty equal all things considered but what do I know.. I might be weird but I take pride in being a gentleman.

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  • Are there really so few guys left in the world who /aren't/ entitled assholes?
    l think if you all dug way down deep into those shriveled little man-hearts of yours you'd all realize it's possible to date a girl because she's an interesting human being who you like or even love and want to spend time with. You know, as opposed to just for cooking, cleaning and sex. What is this, The Stepford Wives? You're all so bitter.

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    • Are there really so few gals left in the world who /aren't/ entitled bitches?
      l think if you all dug way down deep into those shriveled little woman-hearts of yours you'd all realize it's possible to date a guy because he's an interesting human being who you like or even love and want to spend time with. You know, as opposed to just for money, chivalry and sex. What is this, The Stepford Wives? You're all so bitter.

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    • Do you feel the need to suck up to all the women on this question?
      you're pathetic...

    • I'm not sucking up to anyone, I'm answering your sexist, dumbass question. And even if I were in any way /appealing/ to the women who've felt like answering you, I'd be quicker to call it "stating my position as a respectful fucking human being". Which, I'd say and likely most of these women would say, is a lot less pathetic than whining on the internet about how women demand respect from you in a relationship.
      By the way, ever heard of sarcasm?

  • I actually got called an asshole for holding a door for a woman. I will be chivalrous to an extent, but some things I do like hold doors for women I do for really everyone. I think women who get over zealous about things like that are over compensating and insecure in that regard.

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  • I think that things considered chivalry in the old days should sometimes be done for women out of love or respect for them as a person not chivalry. I don't think they should get it all the time though.

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  • Women would prefer equality in the early stages of their marriage but most prefer Chivalry later on !!!

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    • As i said you can't have both.
      Women will find out this eventually.

  • i agree, both cannot exist.

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  • C is the appropriate answer for 99% of Western women. Of course, that's not the answer most will choose because they are not honest about it. Women do not want equality. They want a very female biased interpretation of it.

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  • This question is pointless because what women say and what they do are very different things. They say they want equality but clearly they do not. What they want is to change anything that is a disadvantage to them but maintain status quo for anything that is in their favor. In other words, they only want "equality" when it benefits them.

    Modern women want to have their cake and eat it too.

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  • why are you trying to make women be fair minded? its pointless. they have no motivation to be fair. cause most guys will roll over and do what the fuck theyre told. you got to convince the men that they deserve to be treated fairly

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    • Hah, fair point.
      Notice how the women down voted you though :)

    • well of course they would

  • I think most women just aren't going to vote, than to be honest about this. Most should vote C. The truth is they can be equal, and have chivalry, but they would have to be chivalrous to men in return. Current feminism has taught women that doing things like that for a man is degrading to women. If you asked most women how they would feel if they were expected to pay for dates, open doors, or pull out chairs for men, most women would feel it was degrading, even though they still want men to do this things. If however both genders are doing things for one another, then it isn't degrading at all. It is just two people showing each other respect in different ways. It is only degrading when one gender becomes entitled to being served by the other gender as it currently is.

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  • Regardless of anyone's bitterness they can have both. I see nothing wrong with two hard working good people BOTH being kind and chivalrous while having equality in a relationship. Having manners and decency towards a woman does not mean that we can go back to 1935 and slap are wife and tell her the stfu because we were nice to her.

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    • *our*

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    • Sorry the whole concept flew over your head. Take care

    • Yeah.. good-bye.

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