I think women are already aware of just how important looks are to men. Women, being traditionally on the receiving end of being asked out etc., feel a disadvantage and therefore already put a lot of effort to improve the chances of being pursued. However, a lot of men that I know, aka the "nice" guys, constantly complain of how women "pass over them". The biggest factor I've noticed with these guys, and it really isn't about them not having 'looks', is their attitude, like they shouldn't have to put in an effort to attract the opposite sex and project an attitude "well you clearly are superficial because you won't look twice at me". I was talking to a younger friend of mine and he was telling me how his friends (who are my age/older than he by a few years) think they aren't attractive enough for women yet he hears the women they are speaking about say that the guys won't ask them out. And I told him: every single one of these guys are out of shape which is a controllable factor, yet they do nothing about it. These guys are all somewhat 'nerdy' yet never attempt to hold a conversation with these girls because they presume they don't have the same interests (which I know the people on both sides, puh-lease, you can either a) connect over something in common or b) connect by learning about each other's interests). I'm seeing a lot of lack of initiative, and a lack of self-reflection. Women are painfully aware of what they have and don't have to work with. We all just need to put our best foot forward, and if you don't like something about yourself either a) fix it and don't blame others for not doing something about it and b) if it isn't changeable, rock it as a unique part of you or minimize it and maximize your other assets that you love about yourself.
I think it depends on the peoples personalities as to how the relationship dynamic goes. If one is more introverted, passive, or submissive the other will take the lead and thus seem to put more into it. Even if the other person is caring and attentive its the one pushing the direction. Sometimes its more equal between people. Occasionally there is such a thing as being too well matched because if your both dominant in the relationship you may argue or have to learn to share control. If both of you are passive or submissive sometimes people are scared to make a move, rock the boat, etc and they might sometimes feel like the relationship is stagnating as they aren't necessarily complimentary pushing each other along. Sometimes though that still can work. Everything of course has its pluses and minus.
For myself I like the man taking the lead at points. Certainly at the start as long as he isn't suffocating about it. Most people aren't that dominant but sometimes it happens. I like to do the sentimental type things and the more tomboyish. But once comfortable sometimes I like to take the lead at least with being playful on the intimate or romantic side.
I think both people need to work on a relationship and at least be complimentary. So they grow old together instead of grow apart or instead of just plain hating each other.
Guys have a lot of pressure to prepare things, or pay for things or be romantic. Girls worry about looking nice and getting their appearance sorted, there's sorta an anxiety/worry in regards to looks. Also women hold back a lot, sometimes even have on a flawless facade, as if they're perfect or lady-like. Men have to worry about being the first to approach the girl (but also women can feel scared to make the first move because society and shit, and that might end up in no one making the first move which is also sad), guys also have to put effort a lot of the time to be wearing 'the pants' in the relationship which is stupid. I don't know why guys pretend to be the most 'masquiline' things ever and girls pretend to be perfect and lady-like. I feel like things are changing recently though, slowly it isn't expected for guys to take control of the situation (first move, paying etc) and girls maybe don't feel so worried about appearance.
Either way, whatever you're putting effort into whether it's your personality or appearance if the relationship progresses their bound to see your true self anyways.
Men. The women don't have to do much but make themselves look nice. The guy has to ask the girl, pay for the dates, make the dates happen and choose where, text HER back after exchanging numbers and make sure he's at least living decently so the girl won't lose interest. He MUST have a job, car and his own place or a girl won't be interested. Where as a girl isn't obligated to do any of these things and most of the time the girl feels like the guy should just be "lucky he has her". Girls want to be pampered so the guy must do the pampering. Making sure to remember dates such as birthdays and planning things and giving presents etc.. All a girl needs to do is get dressed up and go out, for a guy he needs to not only dress up but then approach the woman, find something to talk about with her, hopefully get her number, then text her back and hope for a reply and if she does then ask her on a date, choose where to take her out, pay for the date and so on. It's ridiculous how one sided it is.
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Men!
We have to deal with Approach Anxiety and REJECTION. If a man has poor skills, he can be labeled a "creep".
Dating expectations are very lopsided. Men have to approach. Pay for dinner, drinks, movie, etc. And women still complain that Men just don't approach them. Well, I wonder why!
The world is becoming increasing anti-male. Young Men going to Universities in the U. S. are being told they are potential Rapist.
In Nottingham, U. K., a man can risk going to JAIL for approaching a woman. The Misogyny Law in Nottingham reads as follows...
“Unwanted physical or verbal contact or engagement is defined as exactly that and so can cover wolf-whistling and other similar types of contact.
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I personally feel that it's men. And no, for everybody who has said this before, this isn't for blue upvotes.
Women have argued for a long time that they're not always trying to look good for men, and that's true. It's something we do for ourselves, so why is this apparently work that we're doing for the sake of men alone? That's silly.
Men have more expectations, even if things have progressed. They're expected to ask you out, pick you up, pay, open doors for you, pull chairs out for you, and if he misses any of those steps a girl will happily move on at the drop of a dime because she knows there's guys out there that will do all of those things.
u It is impossible to know the answer to this question. As a man, I am acutely aware of every little thing that I do when I am with my girlfriend. When I look at her, I only SEE the things that she does that are visible but there are things that she does of which I am unaware, that I can't see, so. . . how can I compare the effort that I make to the effort that she makes?
More importantly, why would I WANT to make that comparison. The test of a relationship is not in how a balance sheet looks for expended effort. No, a good relationship is simply one where I get what I need and I am not required to expend an unreasonable effort to maintain the relationship. So I just need to ask myself:
1. Am I getting what I need?
2. Does this seem to require some extraordinary effort from me on a regular basis?
Those are the important questions.
Let's look at what is required of women, by men, to find a partner. Marginally average attractiveness + not being a complete cunt. Take or leave the being a cunt part.
Now lets look at what is reqiored of males, by females. Interchangably, a great personality, funny, intelligent, has a good job, preferably a college education, ambition, treats his parents respectfully, money is a (big) plus, has skills, has a lot of friends, is respected by part of society.
Which requires more work?
More. Females control sex. They define the parameters of relationships based on their preferences 80-90% of the time. This question is like asking, "is it harder to be on trial or be a judge in court?" The job of women is to judge the quality of males. The job of men is to shotgun and hope they *impress* 1 woman out 100.
End of the day, it's not that hard to stand around and look pretty. And that's all that's required of women by men. Really. That's it. Many men will bullshit about personality and whatever other things females tell them they want, because they want to be seen as appealing by women.
As for relationships, again, the whole idea on the majority of relationships, it's about making the woman happy. Look at your parents.
Definitely men. Women claim they do but the reason i call bullshit on that is because its a choice. they don't HAVE to do all the nails and feet and hair and this and that... they CHOOSE TO.. whether its to attract men or to compete with other females (which still comes back to attracting men), its all a choice. I mean clean hygiene and everything is fine, don't gotta do all that. Funny how many women work so hard to be called whores, then they get offended.
Also love how when women get into relationships, they say they are the only one putting in effort... but when you ask them to break it down into detail its always in one of two categories... either they are doing stuff within THEIR comfort zone... OR... doing stuff so as to get something back. sometimes they don't do anything but just tell guys what to give back. Thats not effort.
Guys always have to do stuff they really don't want to do in order to make their girl happy in a relationship, but its amazing how many women won't step out of their comfort zone.
D L Hughley said something that made me laugh about taking a girl out on a date and from the beginning, she goes "don't be expecting anything to happen today/tonight", then they go to the restaurant or whatever and she's all trying to get the lobster and fillet and Hughley is like "Hell no!! Lobster comes with a side of dick" had me rolling for hours because its true.
My days of trying too hard on worthless wont-go-anywhere-females are gone. no effort till its official... oh and they pay their way too till its official.
Women have it easier in their 20s but after 30 and onward depending on if they were hot back in their youth like around 8 on attraction scale, majority get put on the shelf, kicked out of the alpha males dating pool or shoved to one side. Women in their 30s would kill for a nice guy for relationships that they rejected back in their prime youth. Although this generation of nice guys have woken up to a womens BS because of the MGTOW and Red Pill philosophy been spread across the Internet and decent guys won't settle for scraps anymore when nice guys realise their own potential worth if only they put some effort in to improve their sexual market value.
So for women it's game over if they don't make the right choices in their prime youth but tables turn over when men have all the sexual power on in their 30s onward becuase men don't age bad like women do, men look distinguished up until their 50s most times, we aquire money, status, character, game, experience and personality. Women see that most men at young age have nothing to offer, reasons why they just chase tall pretty boys and bad boys. The only issue for man in his prime 30s and 40s would be to get access to young prime women (20s)
So my answer is both genders have it easy at different phases of their life. Women have it all in their teens and 20s, men begin at 30 on towards their 40s and we finish around our 50s unless we have a lot of money we would be out of the dating game.
Hence the famous quote "Men age like wine, women age like milk" and the guy who said that weren't wrong was he.
Men, in my opinion. I feel like women don't take dating seriously and actually prefer to have casual sex.
A lot of women tend to say stuff like - "I want a man who can hold a decent conversation, a man who his intelligent, has his stuff together, knows what he wants out of life, etc." However... when you try to engage women in casual conversation, get to know them, see what they are about... they eventually drop off the face of the earth and move onto the next guy. This has happened to me countless times.
Recently... I stopped trying to get to know women and stopped trying to date. I have learned that when you are openly sexual with a woman, show confidence and tell them what you want... they will readily jump in bed with you. I am not one to brag about my sex life nor do I like to... but for the sake of getting my across... going this route with women... I have had sex almost everyday this week with a different woman -_-.
In my opinion... it's always the "nice guy vs the bad boy". As a "nice guy"... I tried to get to know the woman, be true to them and show them my true personality. However... when I play the role of the "bad boy"... I get sex so easily, which sucks... because I would rather get to know a woman on a deeper level than have a lot of casual sex.
ALLOW ME TO ANSWER! First men approach women, why? Because women don't have the guts to and fear rejection, well welcome to our world. And women don't tell me approaching first makes you look too eager causing the man to react overly sexual to match your eagerness. If that happens it's because you don't know how to approach a man, how can you know, your not a man silly, so learn!! to prevent it. When it comes to initial dating interaction, as a man in order to keep her interested you have to talk a certain way, say certain specific things, have certain body language... we are not even at the "what background he has" or "what he needs to wear" part yet for god sakes. Noooow comes the risky part, do you have a stable job, can you provide, do you have humour, are you smart, are you independent but not too much, will you lead but then let her lead, do you want kids, do you know how to make her orgasm (which requires a whole new lord of the rings length novel)... im running out of breath right now... im not even at the 2nd date. Just Quickly - Have I mentioned women complain about men sexually objectifying women, yes that's terrible! Hmmm have you heard of women financially and status objectifying men! Noooo you haven't, hmmm no surprises. Omg before I forget, men! You can't pay the bill anymore, that's right! let her pay half because if you don't consider you seeing her again a never!!
Where was I? Okay if your lucky to get a 2nd date well you just achieved the rare opportunity. But before you meet her the 2nd time remember texting is a womans 2nd language, you need to have that game on lock. There are 50 techniques to use for this to keep her interested, Google it. Okay I'm done, will write the next phase of 10 tomorrow. PS: remember this is just the dating part.
SO YES! MEN DO MORE WORK
One has to detest and at the same time admire the criminal genius of crooked Hillary “Rotten” Clinton and former President Bill Clinton. Consummate political game players, they went from backwater Arkansas all the way to the White House, and thanks to a Marxist media covering Hillary’s rear flank, she has a real chance at becoming selected (not elected) for the office of President for the next 8 years.
The stories surrounding the couple’s criminal activity stretch back to the very beginning of their rise to power, in 1980s Arkansas. Arguably, Bill fits the model of the sexually promiscuous psychopath perfectly, and Hillary fits the profile of the power obsessed psychopath perfectly. Together, they have repeatedly and literally gotten away with murder if emerging reports of their crimes are to be believed. The revelation of this criminality is thanks to the internet, not sycophantic journalists who won’t do their fucking job.
These stories are only a briefer on the mountain of dirty dealings involving this power-seeking couple. They involve allegations of everything from Bill fathering a son with a prostitute, a son he abandoned, to hanging out with a pedophile dozens of times on his private island, to trafficking cocaine then killing numerous people who witnessed and had knowledge of a cocaine drop in rural Arkansas, to killing nearly 50 people who had incriminating evidence against them, among countless other scandals you may not have heard of.
Man likes a woman:
He has to approach her try to start and keep her engaged in a conversation; buy drinks and the meal ( the outfit and accessories * before the date * ) risking money, self-esteem and embarrassment on a 30% or less chance of having a positive outcome.
Woman likes a man:
She will expect him to come to her.
Tell her girlfriends she likes him then deny it when said friend tells him and he comes over, but gets offended if the friend hooks up with.
Get an attitude ( like that's going to make us like you ) when we do take the initiative and come over.
(* Those women that have the balls[ no pun ] to approach us i thank you for showing that your willing to meet us half way at least).
You also tend to start out wanting a guy only to friend-zone him afterwards.
Whoever cares the most. Guy or girl ends up being the one putting the most effort in.
Most girls don't feel the need to go and approach guys cause it can happen organically for them. Most guys, if they just stand around without talking to anyone, no one will talk to them, guy or girl, nobody gives a fuck haha.
The initial effort of conveying personality is on men, mostly. They have invested the most at that stage. But then it can really go either way,, the guy can keep investing or the girl can start investing more and the guy less.
Ultimately boils down to who is more invested emotionally. Whoever cares more at any given point is gonna do more work and put in more effort. That can be the guy or the girl really can go any way...
I think men are expected to do more (approach, pay for the dates, make her laugh, earn more, be more intelligent, taller, more confident ect)
Also for sex, if its bad its almost always blamed on the guy. So gues have more pressure there too.
Even with looks, a guy has to put more effort. For a guy to be a 9 he needs to have good genetics and dedicate long hours in the gym. However, women just need the right genetic. They dont need to put as much time in the gym, they jusy need to be "not fat". There are women who have great bodies effortlessly but for men that just isn't going to happen.
into dating I'd say the male, he is the one expected to ask out the girl and make all the first moves, impress her, pay, etc. but in a relationship, once the dude gets her there, the girl makes all the effort I've noticed from personal experience and from being an outside party looking in. the girl does all the cheesy things like momentos and keepsakes and remembering birthdays and special dates and does what she can to impress the guy. he is happy with food, sex and video games , so unless you are Lara croft from tomb raider, not much effort is put into anything until u nag and whine, THEN it just annoys him and pushes him away. which leaves the girl making all the effort to KEEP the relationship going
I firmly believe that men have it harder in relationships. Out of the men you know, how many do you think have ever been complimented on their appearance by someone other than their mothers? How many do you think have ever been asked on a date, or taken out to dinner? How many have never had a girlfriend pllan where they are going to go to eat or drink? I bet all of them have had to initiate all romantic encounters (sexy time if you will). If you disagree, please voice it. I would love to have a quick mental spar over this.
There is a lot to be said about the female being prepared. I would hope most males would at least shower and change clothes before the date. Relationships are a completely different story. Both as a rule, have done some extra primping.
If the guy is not prepared to host the date (meaning cover the cost) then he never should have made such date. It is just as easy to tell the truth.
My vote is for the female because I believe in my heart that most really do go the extra mile before a date.
Obviously men. Women are lazy as hell. As a gender they barely try to maintain their body relying on their genetics and metabolism. They don't approach. They don't make much effort to plan dates or even are good texters. They rely on men to be their entertainer and keep them happy and eventually award them with sex but overall do literally nothing for the man other than sex these days. Old times you could have said hey at least she cooks, clean and show me love.
However, at this age women love is often fake and they don't cook and clean at all. It's all about them.
Even their work ethics is lazy. They often work less hours and many of them want to get knocked up by a financially well off guy so they can stay home and be a single mom.
I know of absolutely NO girls who have taken the step to initiate a relationship - so the answer is without a doubt that guys put more in. That's not to say that girls do nothing and that looking good isn't difficult. But guys have to deal with appearance as well, just as much or even more than girls. Because while girls can say "I want to wear black eyeliner for a change" guys have to work for months if they want to improve their appearance, go to the gym regularly etc. Once the pair is well and truly into the relationship, out of the honeymoon phase, it evens out. But guys are usually trapped with an overwhelming chance of ending in two negative scenarios: he asks her out and she thinks he's too awkward to go out with, or he doesn't ask her out and she thinks he's socially incapable. So it's a huge amount of pressure for guys at the beginning of every relationship
Both, in the beginning at least. Men are usually the ones doing the initial approaching and asking out, paying, etc. It takes a lot of courage and effort to do this. Women are more self-conscious at the beginning of a relationship. You know what some people say, that when they first stay over, a woman will get up earlier than the man to put on makeup so he doesn't see her face without it. I've also heard people say that men are usually on their best behaviour for the first few months.
But once the relationship has progressed enough, both people should be putting in equal effort, both to look and feel their best, and to help pay for things. The key word being should, it is not always the case. Like others have said, if one person is more emotionally involved (and I'm adding onto that) or more insecure, they may be putting in more effort.
If it's a long term commitment then the answer is simply both.. both have to work at it to make it in a relationship.. otherwise it becomes one sided and restrictive.. looks nah don't judge on looks because when both become comfortable with each other the looks side of things begins to slide.. bad habits appear- picking noses, toenails etc etc..
Datin is the same but I think men do take the lead a little and sometimes go a little overboard... I don't believe in men payin for everything, Becos if it does become a relationship then it gets a bit to comfy were man is paying for everything..
Manners same, it's all good to begin with but the bad habits appear.. so again both
In fact both to everythin... lol
My opinions probably will not mean much since I have no dating/intimate experiences whatsoever. But sadly, society has implanted the thought that a man should be the initiator, have a great career, dress professionally, have a "nice haircut", pay for everything, have a lot of sex, etc. Should a man fail to achieve these things, he is viewed as a failure by society. In my opinions, if feminists wanted "equality", then both sexes should just be able to put forth an equal amount of effort into the relationship.
I think it truly depends on the two people. I've never been in a relationship where a guy paid for everything. In fact I've never been in a relationship where a guy paid for anything with the exception of gifts. It has always been split in half. From movies to dinners. On the other hand I don't go the extra mile to look good all the time. I feel like if a guy falls for me when I'm dressed nicely in make up every time he sees me what will he think if we ever moved in together and I wash it all off or go a day without shaving or last around in my sweats? For a relationship to work it should be 50-50
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