Why do men date below their level?

why do successful men date girls who are pretty but unsuccessful when there are so many girls out there who are pretty, smart and have good jobs?

if you were in the top 5% of successful guys, wouldn't you date someone equally as successful?

discuss.

Updates:
5d i have let loose of storm of gender cliches in this discussion.
www.theatlantic.com/.../
SIMILARITY AND COMPANIONSHIP ARE THE CURRENCY OF ATTRACTION, FOR BETTER OR WORSE. HOT PEOPLE WILL DATE HOT PEOPLE. RICH PEOPLE WILL DATE RICH PEOPLE. INTELLIGENT PEOPLE WILL DATE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE.
just bc yr pretty means little unless yr dating down. beauty is rare, sure, but in a bubble of hot people yr one of many. they probably never been w one, that's y they forgo everything for looks.

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What Guys Said 128

  • You know, my ex-wife has a Ph. D. in biomolecular engineering and works for a fancy biotech as a senior scientist in blah blah. When I took her to company Christmas parties, my co-workers would gush about how hot she was and how lucky I was. As an aside, I actually felt she was good for my career in that respect but aside from that, she was the worst decision of my life. In our last year of marriage, I made $385k and she made $105k, yet there were months where we lived paycheck to paycheck. I couldn't get her to stop spending and any attempted discussions about it would immediately devolve into "Who are you to tell me how to spend MY money?" talks. When I filed for divorce, I completely underestimated how angry she would be and by the time it was all done, I had weathered through domestic violence accusations, psychiatric evaluations, parenting evaluations, and coughed up $200k in legal fees (not that the fees weren't worth it -- Katherine, you saved my life!).

    But your question sounds like something my ex-wife would ask. I mean, I look back on my past and I think about all of the women that I discounted for one reason or another. I remember some who were really timid and submissive and I discounted them as weak. Or I remember one who worked the front desk at a Hilton hotel who was never going to be good enough. Or even that really sweet ex-girlfriend that my ex-wife laughed at when she saw her picture because she apparently had a big nose. When I think about those women and I think of my ex-wife, I realize that I was measuring women based on shit that didn't even matter.

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    • 5d

      That's very well said. I just got out of a divorce too buddy so i know what you're saying and i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy haha. Happy things are better for you.

    • 5d

      I feel this is a big problem in dating. We are all guilty of this! I have guys overlook me all the time. I'm sure women overlook guys based on these superficial things too. Unfortunately it's not until we go through a bad experience that we are able to see past those superficial filters.

  • For me I want her to be just as successful, if not more successful. I can sleep with a girls but when it comes to a relationship I'm looking for a lot more substance than just looks. Success is also very subjective. Success could just be a matter of being happy and content in ones life. For me.. not so much and I think this is where my shallow side comes out. It's to what to be considered as paper success.

    Past high school I think I've been pretty damn successful. I was always in leadership roles when I was military. I did go through a police academy as a self sponsor (academy lost it's state credentials and my academy class got fucked over.. we wen't though 9 months of hell for no reason). I was a squad leader in the police academy and was ranked 3rd in my class. I'm not going to university and decided to take on a pretty difficult field of study (mechanical engineering) and I excel in my classes and have an almost perfect GPA.

    I hate the idea of losing. I've been training in bodybuilding for about 4-5 years now and I don't even enter a competition because I know I'm not 1st place material yet. If I'm going to do something I want to win. If I lose then it really hurts my ego. I'm way too ego driven which is one of my faults lol.

    Yeah that was my little humble brag but I'm telling you this all for a reason. Reason being is that it relates back to what I said about success being subjective. Through my lens I see success as being related to leadership and academia. Somebody might have a completely different life experience, thus having a different lens as to what constitutes success.

    For instance, if somebody was brought up in an athletic driven environment, they could be comparing success to their football stats and what D1/D2 colleges they got accepted to play with. If someone was brought up in a broken home with very little money, then they probably don't gauge success by what type of car someone drives.

    Concluding my personal statement, I'll refer back to what I said in the first first sentence. I want someone who is successful as me, if not more successful. I'm not looking for some submissive weak housewife. I want a partner that's on my level so we can conquer the world and shit baha. I need someone that compliments me. If she has more success then it just makes me that much more competitive.

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  • Simply, men and women have different perspectives and desires, so we value different things (and generally, we value things that we don't already have or can't get easily ourselves).

    Women value "success" and "security", but men value attractiveness and nurturing.

    How many women have ever said "I really attracted to nurturing men?" NO WOMAN EVER. Why? Because YOU YOURSELF are nurturing, so you don't need more of that - you need things that you don't already have. Men are the same way - we're expected to get a job and provide for ourselves and our families - yes, even in today's frequently dual-income world. Thus, we don't worry so much about HER success - we want HER for qualities we DON'T already have.

    But since the rise of feminism, women have been rejecting traditional female gender roles and want to do what men do. That's fine - and you certainly can do that if you like - but it also means that many of you have stopped being many of the things that men valued in women: good nurtures, good mothers, etc., and have traded those things for successful careers. And, again, that's fine - but men don't WANT that and so they don't really value or seek it (just like women don't seek men to be nurturers, and don't value that trait in men).

    So, what is left in women that men still value? Looks and sex, mostly. Yes, there are exceptions, but this is largely the truth, and if you look at how modern society behaves, you can see the truth of what I just wrote in how people (BOTH genders) act and think today.

    Note: I'm not speaking for myself here, but for society in general. I am often an exception to these rules, but it doesn't mean I don't know they exist and how much they effect modern society.

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  • because perhaps they don't judge a woman by her career or salary alone. they perhaps see a person for more

    then there are of course some guys who may just want an attractive partner ("trophy wife")

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  • Classism eh?
    Good chemistry , loyalty and that she's moving forward in life that's all a guy needs really , for myself anyway.

    If anything I believe guys should be wary of girls who don't date "below" their social class.
    What if one day he loses his job or becomes disabled because of an accident or loses his status temporarily?
    Can he even depend on a woman who worships social class to stick around when one of the main reason she's even attracted to him in the first place is no longer there?

    As it goes , "In times of peace, prepare for war." – Niccolò Machiavelli.

    It is not to say I look down on women who are successful. I find them very admirable but what I do look down on is people who discriminate against social classes.

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  • It all comes down to efficiency. In this case, sexual efficiency.

    "Orgasms / Time"

    You have roughly 77 years on this earth. Assuming your sex life starts at 16 and ends at 50 (if you're married and with your wife by then), that gives you about 34 years. 1/3 goes to sleep, 1/3 goes to work, which leaves 1/3. So, that's roughly 11 years and 4 months. Two-thirds of that time is spent for personal care, showers, eating, doctor visits, non-sexual entertainment, friends, family, etc. So, 3 years 8 months.. that's 32,040 hours during your lifetime. That's time you will never get back.

    If you're a physically attractive, popular, athletic, charismatic, intelligent, and masculine guy in high school, you experience life a bit differently (than other guys). You have choices. There are girls you don't have sex with, not because they don't want you, but because you really don't want them. Then, there are girls who you do want, but you realize rather quickly that "SEX" is not your goal. "EFFICIENCY" is your goal. And for as long as "EFFICIENCY" is your goal, "SEX" cannot ever be the carrot that a girl can dangle and promise you in order to induce you into a 3+ month wait or journey of being the way she would like you to be until you get what you want. You don't play that game.

    And the reason you don't play that game is because Jen will gladly want to be the cool girl who sucks your dick in the basement staircase between classes in the hopes you like her more. And Jen is right, but not because she sucks dick (that's what a lot of women don't get). Jen is right, because Jen respects this dude as a man. She puts her "female" fears and interests aside, and she first offers the guy EFFICIENCY.

    Now, obviously, that's a very vulnerable position for Jen to be in. Most women would be terrified to put themselves in the position Jen has just put herself in. But as the priest in Superman says,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4teJPCcJSQ0

    In high school, this is probably NOT the best time to play this gambit move, because guys with these life circumstances are exploring and testing their power, and are drunk with power, and they're enjoying their ability to see girls submitting to them so easily while making other guys wait. So, at this age, VERY HIGH risk of getting used and then discarded.

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    • 5d

      I would say the same with the first two years of college. But then things start to change during the last two years of college, when employment offers, student loan repayment, and real life responsibilities become.. well.. real.

      Now both men and women start to take a new view of their value. For men, if they already had non-financial value they were bringing to the table, this "financial" value just puts them on a completely different bargaining level. Again, however, they're looking for "EFFICIENCY." The only thing that's changed is that this time, they're more mature. So, this time, they reciprocate the respect they get from a woman that respects him as a man, his sexual appeal, and the financial value he brings to the table.

      At it's core, the act of sex is not actually about the sex itself. Rather, it's a token and symbolic gesture communicating submission, appreciation, and respect for the value the man brings to the table.

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    • 5d

      As you can start to see, there's a kind of woman that these men "prefer" to be with, and a kind of women they don't really prefer to be with. Phrased differently, if you won the lottery at a young age, and then also worked hard, busted your ass, and came into an equally large stream of wealth yet again for a second time over.. are you looking to drive a Tank or a Luxury Sports car? Obviously, one of those cars can "do" more and has a higher "utility" and value than just looking pretty externally and having good "performance" on just a paved road. There is more to life than just a paved road. And yet, millionaires and billionaires aren't driving around in tanks.

      That's all that's going on. The marketplace is clearing with men who have the highest value "playing the male gender role" are looking to trade that value for the highest value female who is also "playing the female gender role." "Working women" don't fit within the "female gender role." That's all.

    • 5d

      very well said, i agree completely. This is what frustrates the shit out of feminists, because deep down they know that regardless of how much social engineering they enforce, they will always be mainly judged by their physical appearance because that is what males are genetically wired to desire above all else.

  • When I was wealthy (a long time ago) sex was so easy that I really didn't pay attention to her status (why would I, I was successful, and didn't need her additional income?), it was more let's have fun.

    Now mind you I wasn't that rich, my income was in the 7 figures, but on the low end, and I was still tied to my profession (truly rich people live off of investment not income from work).

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  • I'm a successful male. I am in graduate school (applied mathematics). I learned Python and C++ all on my own. I am now navigating Arduinos and Raspberry Pis just for the fun of it.

    And guess what? I barely even glance at "pretty" girls. Sure, excessively pretty girls are great for a roll in the hay... but they have been completely ruined by today's white knighting, etc. They know that they will always have a field of losers trailing them... and it ruins them because men become disposable to them.

    So that's why I don't mind banging them... but they're out and forgotten by the next day. I much prefer average looking (but smart successful) girls because I just feel long term potential in them. Someone I can really connect to.

    And Asker, don't worry. Many men realize this with age. Why do you think that in the long run you see many mediocre guys end up with attractive but otherwise mediocre girls?

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    • 6d

      well, thats what im trying to say. find your match.

      nothing wrong with being less ambitious. i just find it weird when a guy OR GIRL dates below their level. why not find their intellectual and personality soul mate as well as someone who is kind and empathetic... etc etc

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    • 6d

      And you also went on to say you date "average looking girls (smart successful)" so it was kind of implied.

      But why don't you date them long term?

    • 6d

      @Puppylove94 Oh haha. Average looking [but] smart, successful. I was implying that I like average looking girls who are smart and successful.

      As to your question: I just can't get feelings for an overly attractive girl. Perhaps it's because the media has stereotypically portrayed overly attractive women as shallow... Also some of my hook ups with attractive women were really sexually exciting, but I just couldn't relate to these girls in any way other than sex... I mean there was no substance to them... nothing that made them stand out. Doesn't mean I think all attractive women are like this, but this has been my general experience.

  • Let's start off with biology and then transition into today. Women look for the best mates who can provide and protect their offspring meanwhile men look for women who can produce healthy offspring. This was to keep the human race alive and survive in the 'wilderness'. Fast forward to today. Women are equal and have jobs, yes. Some are successful career women but men do not care about that. Men do not care if you are rich or not. Women care though. Men care about how hot you look and your personality. Older women carry risks as they can produce offspring with defects or not be able to produce at all. Let me use an analogy of cars and stocks for men and women. They say men age like wine and women age like milk and it's true. Women are like cars and men are like blue chip stocks. Everyone wants a nice car, a new one if possible that has the brand new car smell and the bad ass new features that it comes with. No one dreams of driving an old car with high mileage. But you have to be successful to be able to get a new car, especially a luxury or exotic car. For example, I buy a new 2017 Cadillac CTS. It performs great. I take it out to car washes and show it off once in a while to friends. After a year or three, the car needs to get serviced more often, the looks deteriorate and problems begin to arise as the miles on the odometer increase. So, I'll trade the old CTS and get a newer model like the 2018. Now let's go to stocks. Blue chip stocks are big companies that have gone public like AT&T and Apple. They initially started small and didn't have a high price per stick, but as the company expanded its products and did well, their company expanded and the stock prince per share increased to the point of being a blue chip that just goes up and up overtime. A woman's value is highest when she is young and will be like that up I tilt be end of her prime years. As the end of the prime years approach, the looks deteriorate faster. Less guys who are successful want to settle or be with a woman like that and instead will go for a more hotter woman. A man's value is his status (money, power, fame). Men do not have the value and power like women do at the beginning. That gradually changes, assuming the man becomes successful in his career. As he becomes more financially well off, has power like a CEO or president or becomes famous, his value increases exponentially and continues so and as a result will have the option to be picky and choose the best women that he wants.

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    • 6d

      all sexist drivel. i read the first two sentences.

      we're not in the stone age. the whole thing behind having a brain is the ability to think and act past basic instincts.

      you might be driven to take drugs or eat a ton due to your genetics. control it. use your brain.

      as for the rest of it. that's just all hog wash.

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    • 3d

      IM MARRIED.

    • 2d

      Alright, error on my part. The phrasement of the question made it seem so. Regardless, that's the way life is.

  • Because men don't care about success like women do. Men care about one thing: attractiveness. Women care about like 1,000,000 things, interchangeably. Women care about status, because it's part of their instinctual urge to be protected and provided for. Since men do the protecting and the providing, they don't need women to fulfill that role.

    I'm speaking instincts here.

    That's why you'll see a middle class guy dating a woman in abject poverty; but you would pretty much never see a woman date below her class.

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    • 6d

      This is true, by very definition women are prostitutes and men are johns

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    • 5d

      @redeyemindtricks Maybe. The smartphone helps. I started writing a bunch of notes for years, but they never become anything more than notes. Although, given the circumstances of today, I'm thinking reality is much stranger than fiction and will serve to be a great inspirement, in its own right.

      Haha. Alright. Mmm. What kinda details you looking for?

    • 5d

      I pm'd you an e-mail address.

  • The secret sauce for a woman in terms of dating men... is making the man feel wanted.

    Some of these career women are so independent-minded, that potential male suitors may not feel as wanted, desired, and/or needed by these women.

    So these male suitors seek a female partner that makes them feel wanted, appreciated, and loved.

    For a man, the woman having a lucrative career doesn't yield much positive for him. Companionship and being desired matter WAY more to the average guy.

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  • I am in the top 1% (that is for the US; it is much higher than that on a world-wide basis).

    The highest social standing girl I've had a relationship is an actress, who has shown up on a few of those "most beautiful women" lists. I see her on tv still from time to time. But I have been with a couple of other minor actresses and models; medical doctors, a lawyer, etc.

    There are three purposes to dating: Having a good time, having sex, and finding someone to marry. These may or may not coincide.

    I have dated store clerks and waitresses for the purpose of having sex with them. There is no way I would consider marrying one, or even an LTR. It is only about the sex.

    As it turns out, for marriage, most people (at least in the US) do marry close to their peers. That is the reason why inequality had risen so much over the last few decades. Doctors are now marrying doctors and lawyers are marrying lawyers. Meanwhile, those in the bottom quintile don't bother getting married at all.

    In my entire life, I have only met one woman that makes more money than what I do now, and she is quite a bit older, overweight, and happily married. It would be a very sexless life if I only slept with women who are my peers.

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  • I don't think about any of that stuff. I don't worry about it I date on beauty then after that personality because 9 times out of 10 I end up taking care of the girl anyway

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  • i would just date whoever I like and am extremely attracted too.

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  • But she that's the question of the day isn't it? Do the people looking at the man that surround the man decide what his level, is society determining his level? Or is he himself deciding what his level is?

    And if it's the latter then is he really dating below his level if he himself chooses that girl and chooses to be with her?

    But also because we mostly as men are not as superficial as women are we don't require a woman in general to be on the same level as us or above us in fact we don't even expect it. But also we look for more in a woman then just money and a job, looks etc that's typically what women hone in on not so much us.

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  • If you could be trusted to shut your mouth and not leverage that success against him to manipulate him and most likely discard him when he displeases or bores you, then maybe. But that won't happen. If you throw NAWALT at me, you're lying.

    When it comes to providing, girls don't cut guys breaks, guys cut girls breaks. Feminism fails to reconcile this, miserably, repeatedly. I see girls ATTEMPT to go against the grain, but they eventually succumb to biology and try to trade up if they can. Girls find comfort in being provided for and guys find approval in providing.

    I'm not really impressed with ANY girls success nowadays. Every... single... one of them has had a helping hand via affirmative action /industrialization directly or indirectly. So when you thump your chest, I laugh when you hurt your tits.

    Sometimes, I wouldn't mind if oil dried up, feminism would die overnight.

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  • Men aren't hypergamous like women, we don't give a shit about your job or your achievements, only what you look like, and how you treat us. Women seek protection and stability from men, we do not seek that from women, your education and job makes you no more valuable as a dating prospect to men.

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    • 6d

      And asker if a man being a money making prospect for you and potential offspring is a prerequisite to dating him, you are a prostitute.

  • Successful women tend to focus more on their careers over the idea of kids and family. Somebody would need to stay home and raise the children, for example, and unless she were to be OK with me doing that should she be more successful than I am (how many women date men below THEIR level?) then it's just better that she isn't so career focused and is therefore "below my level."

    If you're a woman who is always too busy to do anything, we're going for the other woman who never is. That's just how it goes.

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    • 6d

      Also, lack of success isn't a reliable measurement of intelligence, like some people here seem to think. I know many people who aren't successful that are extremely smart and I'd wager they could outperform anybody who is "successful" here intellectually.

      I don't care about a woman's education, she can still have a great personality despite her knowledge, or lack thereof, and that's what I mostly look for.

  • Smart girls who are also pretty probably take way more effort to "get".

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  • Because we don't care. If we like a girl we'll date her regardless of her success.

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  • Why do women not give men who are not as successfull a chance? Answer, because we are wired to desire different things. A woman is biologically wired to want a man who can take care of her as the burden of childbirth and rearing are extreme for her, meanwhile a man wants a woman who is "beautiful" because this shows she has good genes and a high probability of surviving child birth ensuring the survival of the offspring. It wouldn't make sense for a man to want a partner that could provide exactly what he could provide for himself and inversley it would not make sense for a woman to want a guy who cannot provide for her when she is most in need of it. In short biology.

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  • Because level doesn't determine interest, and romantic feelings. It's whoever you find a connection with most times that prevail. Even if you do try and date on what you consider your level of attraction to be or certain standards, ultimately at some point you'll want to experience a real genuine connection, in every way :).

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  • Men don't usually give a crap about what a woman does for a living... that's a chick thing to care about... if a guy is attracted to a woman he is just attracted to her... her earning potential is largely irrelevant

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  • To be honest so long as you aren't a drain on us we honestly don't care how successful you are. We were never raised to find a mate with "good prospects" because we never assumed it intended that you might ever have to provide for us. Also the more successful you are the more likely you are to feel the need for us to be more successful since women value success in proportion to their own accomplishments. This can be good at times but not if we aren't able to make it happen. This is the difference between the way men choose women and the way women choose men. Men want a woman who makes him feel good now in the moment and wants to do everything in his power to make sure that that doesn't ever change. Women want a man with prospects for the future and and do everything in their power to change the man I to the man they think he can be. In some ways it's good on either side but to be honest. Men like you for who they are when they meet you... And they just want you to be that forever. We like you for you, not what you will become or what you can provide.

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    • 5d

      "And they just want you to be that forever. We like you for you, not what you will become or what you can provide."
      I find there's much truth in that statement even by mere observation, but it's somewhat difficult to internalize.

    • 5d

      @dipta That's because women and men love differently. We are different regardless of what everybody keeps trying to tell us. At least in this one way we are different. It used to be hard for me too, made me sad because I always thought I could take the good with the bad with the girls I fell for. It wasn't that they were perfect, they were great and I was comfortable with them though. But with women there's always this constant anxiety of you aren't the type who naturally seems to do more and more and more. Because in the back of your mind you realize that if you ever let up your momentum she will grow tired of you. Its hard to take on all sides. Hard to realize that generally... Women don't just love you for you and accept you as you are. When they do... Other women look down on them.

  • It doesn't even occur to some men to think in those terms. In fact some men, and thankfully some women, think people who obsess over imaginary "levels" and social status and climbing some big imaginary ladder that only exists in their own mind and the minds of other suckers in the same hustle, well we think that's shallow, and degenerate, and in fact it's the worst form of degeneracy, because you pretend you're not. You pretend you're normal and everybody thinks like you.

    You're shallow and you're degenerate but those are the LEAST of your problems, because you've got two bigger problems much more consequential to your life and future happiness. First of all, what you're chasing is imaginary, fantasy, so no reality can ever possibly satisfy you, not for long. And secondly, you yourself do not even ACTUALLY desire what you are chasing, and you have no exit strategy for how to not fall into your own clever trap.

    You are your own worst enemy and it makes me sad that sometimes one of you marries a good person by mistake, because being married to somebody who's their own worst enemy is the same thing as being married to your enemy. It's not very nice. But I don't think you ever even really think about things like that. Do you?

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  • May as well ask why "hot" girls don't prefer relationships with male models, since those guys are on their own level of physical attractiveness. Or why poor waitresses don't favour guys who are equally poor.

    Successful men dating "below their level" works in girls' favour. You frequently see famous, rich and/or powerful men marrying complete nobodies. The latest example is Prince Harry choosing some unknown TV actress in Canada. Guys can almost never pull that off, ie. be an insignificant nobody who snags Michelle Pfeiffer or Alessandra Ambrosio. So for girls, there's very little to complain about, unless maybe you're in the very top tier of success.

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    • 5d

      When women are young they prefer "male models" type of guys, physical attractiveness of a guy are important to girls as well but less so compared to men, wealth and status is more important, but really good looking guys have often an easier time getting status and sometimes even wealth, male models are at least more or similary successful to the average guy with no no higher education. And if the male model is high tier then he will be more succesful than guys with 3 year degrees of education.
      of course the most attractive of women, those at the very top, would probably still prefer a very rich average looking man compared to a male model with upper class level income.

  • Only if your a materialistic douchbag. If we mesh and she makes me happy, I don't care if she works at the grocery store. besides, when you have someone that puts their work first, having 2 in a relationship usually is disaster.

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  • Because men can't date their level because women won't date a man their level

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  • If you're in the top 5% of guys, and you should only date girls on your level, then you should only date girls that are in the top 5%... you know how difficult it is to find such girl? xD

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  • You're an intelligent woman.. what do you think? Perhaps these men don't want smart, successful women with good jobs. Perhaps they want a stay at home wife to keep the home-front on lock down. Usually the smarter the woman, the less likely she is to adhere to traditional gender roles and usually require more time & resources.

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  • More from Guys
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What Girls Said 48

  • Secret to success with guys: be pretty, kind, easy to get along with, slow to criticism, encouraging, and make him look good to other people. And suck his dick... don't forget that :)

    If you do that, he won't care if you're a high school dropout or a Harvard graduate. If you're not easy to get on with and you're busy judging him all the time, he won't want you.

    I think guys are honest when they say they'd prefer to have a smart, successful girl. But if they have to choose between an agreeable girl and a disagreeable girl, the agreeable girl will win every time, no matter what her intellect or accomplishments are... or lack of them.

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  • It all depends on the guy and what he wants. If he wants a family then perhaps a family oriented woman is a better pick than another career person like him who barely has time for anything else but her job.

    Also there is more to a person than what they do for a living and a successful man doesn't need a woman who makes as much as he does or who is equally successful. Maybe he needs someone who is empathic, funny and loving. He has a stressful and competitive day at work so on his time off he probably wants someone he can chill out with and not someone he competes with.

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  • Why would you consider that females are unsuccessful?
    If a woman does not have a career does not mean that she is unsuccessful.
    Now a days the impossible became possible, there are people getting payed to do videos on YouTube?
    What ever the so called "unsuccessful women" are doing, are making a lot of men happy, because they are not getting rich does not mean that they are not good at anything.
    Money is not everything and being pretty does not mean that a woman is dumb!
    Being "successful" is in a way a burden. Working so hard for money is just going to exhaust you at the end. Just be happy with what you have and enjoy what you have.
    In nature you don't need money, is just you and the sea, your man, the sun shining and lots of love!!! Earning whatever you earn, saving it and making your dreams come true (a trip to paradise) is better than killing yourself at work dealing with a bunch of assholes...

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    • 6d

      why is getting a man considered successful then? i never said that being pretty means she is dumb. there are many beautiful intelligent women.

      in nature, you would be spending 15 hours a day working hard in the fields, hunting for food, and scavenging for food in nature. dirty, hungry and tired.

      you're subscribing to strict gender roles here. im trying to say you should be able to do both.

    • 6d

      Is it considered successful when a girl "gets" a man? I think we should be moving past that way of thinking.

    • 2d

      I believe that being in nature even dirty and tired or whatever would be way better than dealing with society's expectations plus the money that only brings sadness and disaster if you are so focused on going to get it so bad.
      Having love is more valuable than money or a career. We can be both broke and be happy.
      I also believe that whatever you think successful is, than you are successful and you don't need a career or money to feel that way.
      I also think that being successful means "strangers admire you because you look wealthy".
      If you are dressed like a normal regular person nobody will notice you, so what's the point of impressing a bunch of strangers? They don't care about you at the end of the day tho. On the other hand your man is there for you. Nothing lasts long these days having love is a fucking bless.
      I respect your opinion I'm not here trynna be rude it's just the way I think and I also understand your point of view.

  • Men probably don't go after succesful women because they search other qualities in their SOs. They might prefer a cheerful, happy and kind but unsuccesful woman to a cold and distanced succesful woman. Besides, women usually strive for a man who is more succesful than them so they wouldn't really want a guy as succesful as them.

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    • 5d

      "Besides, women usually strive for a man who is more succesful than them so they wouldn't really want a guy as succesful as them." Unfortunately this is true just as much as this question.

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    • 5d

      It does buy happiness at first but then once you get used to having all that money, if that's the only thing you have in life you might get bored and tired of life if you don't have any good people to surround yourself with. So yeah I gotta agree, real long lasting happiness is from being around people who care about you.

  • I would say my boyfriend is "less successful" than me. He's still finishing up college after failing twice. I've had my job for almost 3 years. Emotionally, I would say he's more "successful" in that area though.

    I don't think guys go for less successful women; I think they just go for what they're legitimately attracted to. Maybe sometimes it just happens to be a woman who is "unsuccessful."

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  • wait what does success has to do with relationship uh? its not a job interview when a man chooses a woman according to her success level... he would mostly choose her for who she is really... that sounds really conceited/self absorbed of you to think this way... besides i think that a man who will look at your success at first is not even dating material pfffffftttt >:(
    and yeah i agree with what @Phoenix98 said!

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  • sometimes focusing on your career can get in the way of getting a guy. i've had guys get irritated when i did not have time to spend with them because i had to either work in the morning, just got off or had to rest. like if you're busy, that's cool, but he'll just call suzie who isn't doing anything. also a lot of career girls, im saying this because i see this a lot at work, are not that attractive. like if you work at an office job for years you have to put in more effort to stay in shape vs someone who doesn't. i see a lot of women who let themselves go and look sloppy, and im talking about women in their 20s. however when i go out for drinks, i'll run into other women who maybe aren't so career oriented but they make sure to keep that body right and have more free time to be fun. besides when you meet a woman who is pretty, rich and smart she probably would want a guy on the same level or higher. and if the guy is not "that dude" then he'll go for a girl who doesn't mind.

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  • It's easier to control stupid people.
    Also people always say these hot women are stupid and just go for old rich men and don't have a brain cell. Well these stupid women aren't doing anything but being hot and have millions of dollars at their disposal.

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    • 5d

      They aren't so "stupid" then.

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    • 3d

      When I get to feeling like that on here or other sites I just take a break. I really want people to understand where I am coming from but sometimes I can't make that happen:/

    • 3d

      I answered your original question. Boys like to have control. So they date women with less power that "depend" on them. Strong successful women don't rely on men as much so they're not as attractive. Of course your answers are cliches. There's a reason for cliches they usually come from truth. I'm sorry your not getting the answers you want. But I don't know what you could of possibly wanted. "successful men go for successful women"? They don't they go for the sexy little blonde that's never worked a day in her life.

  • I feel it's cause guys just don't care about that stuff which is one of the reasons why I love them they're less harsh and judgmental when it comes to social status, Income, number of degrees etc etc. Actually on my street I know two couples exactly like this; on one side I have a very successful pharmacist married to a hair stylist and on the other side a very successful cop married to a houswife and they are all happily married and getting along fine. I think it also really comes down to how well the people click as well.

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    • 5d

      Wish more women could careless bout what job guy has.

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    • 4d

      Not bitter. I'm just showing the difference between men and women here. Yes you would do that but you are still looking for a person who could do that for you. We don't look for that. We don't ever even consider it. All we look at is if you will be a drain on us. We don't want to take a step backward and lose what we have that is how we look to the future. Women look for providers. It's natural and nothing to be ashamed of or mad at so long as we just admit that men and women sometime want different things.

    • 4d

      @Splithead I'm not looking for a person who could do it for me. I'm looking for a person who would do it with me. <<Haha that sounds funny. Anyways, that is in your culture. My culture is different and the man is the head of the household and takea care of his family meaning his own, his wife and their family and his children. And he takes on the burden proudly.

  • Because finding love is about a whole lot more than what a person accomplishes on paper... it's about who a person is on the inside and someone that you just connect with. If a successful man connects on a deeper level with a girl who isn't yet successful... chances are... he sees the great potential in her. He's surrounded by successful women all day... if he chose her it's because he knows what he wants and he found it in her.

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  • Who says they're below their level? If a man is with a woman it's because he loves her and she makes him happier than anyone else. Not because of her "status"

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  • Some people don't believe in the concept of levels. They care more about attraction/connection.

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  • Do successful women date guys not at their level or do they date down as well? Most successful guys i know date women that are reasonably successful so i dont really see what you are saying that much. I mean i know it happens, but i can't think of a single successful guy that is dating down substantially. So top 5% guy might be dating a woman with her own education and career and successful in her own right, but not at the top 5% of women, id describe that as pretty, smart and having a good job.

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  • maybe they re looking for good personality? :P

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    • 6d

      having a job, education shows you have a good personality.

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    • 6d

      sure, i agree with that. i just think people should be useful. that includes a job.

      i know other women think motherhood is enough. not for me. that's all.

    • 5d

      I agree on the fact that having a job and degree shows dedication and will which are very wonderful traits because usually a hard working person has many more great traits. On the other hand that doesn't imply that the person is honest, has a good heart and is positive. But positive and hard working person with a job resilance and great will is perfect

  • There are successful guys who want a pretty girlfriend as a business trophy to prove
    they are also successful with women. Some girls probably don't care.
    I suppose that is what dating down is/means.

    However there are plenty of girls men date who are pretty, smart and become successful
    at wanting and having a career at building and managing a family.
    They may be intelligent, educated and pretty, but not interested in looking for a professional career.
    Obviously they are not going to be become independently rich as a housewife and mother.
    They are not lessor than the successful rich men who marry them.
    The men who date and marry these kinds of women are not dating down.

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  • men want to dominate they want someone who will do the things they like a verysuccessful girl isn't going to do those things... like did hilary give bill clinton blowjobs now he had to get a 17 year old intern to do it

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  • I don't know why, but all I gotta say is that I'm grateful. Otherwise, I would never get the chance to date a super awesome guy above my level. I see it as a good thing lol.

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  • There are a lot of men who don't want their wives to work so the women's work experice doesn't count as being successful to them.

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  • Because they don't want a woman who is smart. They want a woman who they can control. And if a woman is good looking, smart, successful (they basically have it all), they cannot be controlled by their men. And these successful men are usually power hungry themselves, so their women also have to succumb to them.

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  • Because to them looks > income or IQ

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  • they don't care about a girls success or career at all

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  • Guys aren't like girls. They don't care about our 'status,' whatever that means.

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  • Maybe because not all guys care about professional success. It's possible to fall in love with someone because of their personality, not just based on looks, money and intelligence

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  • I would date someone I liked regardless of how successful I am.

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  • obviously bc the less independent the easier to control.

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    • 5d

      I think it's deeper than that. I think men have to date lower because women typically like guys who are more successful than them. Not all but generally it seems to be the case.

  • i don't see why a man would want to date a woman based on education level or career success. it's not like interviewing potential employees where you judge by such criteria.

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    • 5d

      But what if we flip the side of the coin? What if women date men based on education level or career success?

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    • 5d

      @Unit1 ok, i personally don't see why people judge each other by these things

    • 5d

      I never got it either :/

  • Well love has no logic or boundaries

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  • Maybe they don't place a person's worth based on what kind of income they're making...

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  • Because you shouldn't base love on what job someone has

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  • they dont care it

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