What is it about me that women find unnerving?

I will make this very succinct to spare people the agony of reading an entire treatise of why my self-esteem is at a low ebb. My question is what is it about me that women seem to despise? As it stands I am 25 years old, a virgin who has never had any positive experience with women on any level-be it friends or anything beyond that. I have never had any physical relations with women, nor anything tangible save for small-talk which invariably ends awkwardly and it seems increasingly less likely. I attribute this partly to my schooling in junior/middle high school and the lack of co-education-which happened in senior high school (by which time I was very much set in my ways and was completely ill-equipped and oblivious to inter-gender relations and creating repartee's.)

I have been told (though I am cynical of the truth in this) that I am pleasing to look at, yet I have nothing to show for such alleged good looks (which are inconsequential anyway, personality is what matters), I have direction and ambition in my life (I have two degrees and am in law-school) and am uncompromising to that end. Yet for these I feel increasingly frustrated, ignored and unappreciated. Additionally, it appears my preferences in music etc. have alienated me (I happen to love death metal and the like but am nothing in the way of the caricatures you see who enjoy this music and so forth). I would appreciate some honest feedback about where I am letting myself down, and indeed, where I can improve myself to become more appealing (without of course undermining my integrity).

This malaise has completely undermined my confidence in myself and while I tried to put on a veneer of toughness/apathy, I am suffocating-any help, or insight would be very greatly appreciated.

Updates:
I have noted the amusing situation that my writing has polarized many; nevertheless I have taken the answers on-board and will try to not melt people's brains with my perspicacity! Overall I have to be more "chill" and that makes perfect sense.
Further update: I have decided on reflection, that in a sense it is not worth trying to work out why women find me unnerving etc. and I am better served directing these energies to self-improvement and being the best possible person I can be

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Most Helpful Girl

  • you can try taking some workshops or seminars like the art of charm etc they do a pretty good job in bringing out the best in guys like you by that I mean smart, goodlooking etc but still missing a little somethin something which is holding back your true potential, or if you don't want to do that, maybe you need some approaching techniques like nice flirting etc, don't sweat over being a virgin maybe the right girl hasn't come yet, I'm 22 and I'm a virgin but I'm holding back for religious reasons s o every1 has their own reasons, anyhu, don't change anything at all about yourself because someday you are gonna find someone who is gonna adore you for who you are, you just need some improvements here and there, I studied in a girls convent till I was 16 and I know it felt awkward when I joined a co ed highschool but I managed to have good friendships with guys. and girls just love accomplished and ambitious guys so you having 2 degress, goals and dreams would be a problem only for insecure kinda girls who think that maybe you have uber high standards so maybe they don't bother asking you out.

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    • Perhaps that could also work-it's certainly something to think about. As for your situation, although I am an atheist, your stance is admirable for the fact that you will not compromise yourself until the right person comes along-that is to be commended. Maybe as you've pointed out, accomplishment can intimidate so I need to rethink slightly how I present myself and try and not put out a vibe that I am an uber-perfectionist, but actually approachable and grounded.a challenge worth undertaking

What Girls Said 46

  • Don't listen to people who tell you you're creepy or strange or whatever; people are dumb and they fear/look down upon in a condescending manner that which they do not understand. If I had to say why you're having such trouble it would be your confidence. Confidence is key! If you are sure of yourself and can make the girl comfortable you'll be in much better position.

    You seem very intelligent and interesting, and yeah, as other girls have said, mysterious is good from the girl's point of view. I also think you just haven't bumped into the right girl yet, not everyone is a good fit and actually the more unique you are, the harder it can be to find someone who meshes with you, or "gets" you. Don't feel like you are missing out. If you look around, lots of couples don't really have anything meaningful going on. There's a lot of people who are in lust. "Oh my god I love my boyfriend so much, he's so gorgeous and I've only known him a week but I LOVE him and we're gonna get married and have kids and live in a big house with a white pickett fence and a dog and cat and blah blah blah!" They say something along those lines, then come to find out they broke up within a month. Then they move onto the next relationship a week later and repeat the process. Haha sorry for that rant, but that kinda thing happens all the time, just trying to make you feel better about the predicament.

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    • You "rant" is actually most welcome-you made a number of interesting insights and the overall message is "keep at it". Thanks again.

    • Cheeshead

  • Ok first of all... that picture is creepy... really.

    So.. where do you usualy hang out at? I mean, to meet women, or just to have fun.

    Maybe you should change your hang out places. Visit different bars/cafes/gyms/parties/events, until you find a place you fit in at. You shouldn't feel the need to change who you are, what you like, how you talk, or anything to "fit in", or to find someone who likes you. Because really, how happy will you be if you are not your real self. There are places out there that will fit you, you just have to be open to trying new things.

    We are all different, and won't always "click" with everyone. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with you, or that person. It just means there is no connection between you and that person. And that is normal. You just move on to the next person. If you keep moving you will eventually bump into that one person, or even better, group, you actually get along with.

    Really, there is nothing wrong with YOU, OR the music you listen to. You just have to be open to meeting people, lots of them. And before you go looking for a girlfriend, I suggest you find a female friend first. I think that is a good step to getting comfortable with the opposite sex.

    It's easy to make female friends at bars and stuff. Good luck :)

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    • I tend to get that a lot about the picture I'm using but I happen to like it myself-it's an acquired taste. That said, overall you have a point and I need to get out more and do things.

    • I apologize but I decided to adopt the "creepy" picture for my own personal reasons

    • I like what you've decided to do.

      Focus on you

  • Oh, and wait. After reading a lot of these comments, I am slightly miffed. There are girls out there who love intelligent guys! Preferably (for me at least) highly intelligent ones. Hell, I'm getting my masters in 20th Century American lit right now and so yes, I consider myself a fairly intelligent person and I would expect my partner to be able to keep up with me. Don't listen to that "You uze big werds, it's not hot lolz" sh*t. That's absolutely ridiculous. Maybe I'm saying this because I know what it's like to be a reasonably attractive person but never getting much attention from the opposite sex. I figured out the hard way it was because my intelligence intimidated guys. That, and I too have a biting, cynical edge to my sense of humor that most guys find off-putting. I guess what ended up working for me was the t*ts and the ass, because I never dumbed myself down for anyone. My advice for you would be to just be patient and wait for someone who appreciates your wit, humor, and unique looks. I dated a kid nicknamed Joey Metal because of his obsession with death metal, and let me tell you... still on my top three list. Holy. Sh*t. Keep your head up, and don't ever EVER compromise who you are. You're better than that.

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  • yeah same here. BSc in the making and in terms of relationships go I haven't had too many at my age. well it might be that you are not making yourself available, like myself you are in school and you are continuing on this path and it takes a lot of commitment, not to mention time to do stuff.

    Also you need to take some time to maybe put yourself in places where you CAN meet women that are of the same caliber perhaps?

    I'm more focused on my career than I am into guys but maybe when you are completely done law school, You'll realize more things to work on that you need. There is always room for self improvement, it takes a little luck also to find the one for you. good luck! =)

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  • First of all, personality isn't all that matters and neither is how many degrees you hold. Confidence is far more important than any of these and if you don't believe in yourself, why should a woman? If anything, your lack of faith is like a big target on your forehead warning girls not to become interested in you because you obviously aren't interested in yourself and there's probably a reason why. Women don't want to start a relationship with someone who is perpetually broken and unable to take the personal responsibility required to figure themselves out, that's your job. You need to get yourself together first before you even think about entering a relationship. No one else can do this but you. Read self-help books, see a therapist, listen to confidence tapes, develop hobbies, join classes where you can do things you love and meet people with similar interests, whatever works for you. But don't sit here and complain to strangers that you have a low self-esteem when you could be using that time to do something about it. This is your main problem from what you are describing. The three biggest qualities women are interested in isn't your education or your looks, it's confidence, assertiveness, and dominance. Develop a sense of these and you'll find your way. But do it for yourself, not to get girls. Some people spend so much time developing their intellectual side that they fail to work on their personal, social, and emotional side, which will help them advance in the world as much if not more than any degree will. A Harvard study even showed that emotional intelligence is twice as important as high IQ or other factors, and you can learn to develop it and make it work for you if you are lacking it. Forget about the girls, they'll come later. Work on fixing what's broken, it isn't fair to you or them to enter into any situation where this will inevitably become a huge problem. That said, you should at least be friends with girls at some point in the near future, that's a good starting point. But again, work on your own self prior to taking large leaps in the opposite sex category.

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  • Sometimes... people are stupid. You just have to learn how not to allow them to contaminate you with the same stupidity. Humans in general have low selfesteem, relationship phobia, envy and all the other nasty things I probably do not have space to type in here. Admit that you are afraid that you are flawed and that others are as well and then you will realize that it is completely stupid to be afraid or consider others better than you or that you are so inherently flawed that no one will appreciate you. It is easy to say but hard to do because appart from understanding reality you have to feel it. So, just be a jackass for a while and don't care (You are probably a rule following schmuck who feels guilty about everything). Give your parents a few lashings cause they messed you up or you could also go to your former school bully's home and burn it down. At the end of it you will discover that you have have the same ability to hurt as everybody else You will forgive and by not holding grudges against yourself or others you will find it easier to make friends and perhaps find a girlfriend in the process.

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  • You sound like you may be an intj (in meyers briggs) or a similar type. Sadly, INTJ women are the rarest type in women, while making up a sizeable 6% of men. I would focus my time determining where women of a similar nature would spend time, and frequenting there. While there is higher 'competition' for the rarer women, your personality and positive attributes would lend you a significant advantage.

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    • The amusing thing is that I am a classic one in every sense. Ah well-I'lljust have to try harder to find the right person :)

    • I'm also an INTJ and I think that two INTJs together might not be the best match. Not that there needs to be, but there would not he enough diversity to be worthwhile. Us INTJs don't small talk for example. So two INTJs together would make for a very technical relationship, causing it instead to be more of a maintenance than a relationship.

      Question asker, you sound a lot like an INTJ. Use the natural intelligence and with to observe ONLY. Us introverts as natural observers anyway...

    • So teach yourself he rules of the game before you throw yourself in the middle of it all. Too much stressing about it and you might end up feeling jaded. I'm NOT a believer in "soul mates", I am a believer in learning social rules. I'm ignorant to a lot of subtle social rules and cues but I do have confidence in my ability to teach myself things. Find a related strength and use it to better your situation.

  • You don't sound boring but being the same age, it sounds like you have a preference for someone older and more intelligent than someone our age. Have you ever tried cougar hunting? You sound like you could snag one up in a heart beat!

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    • Thanks, it appears that I am not appreciated by people in my age-bracket and I have not tried "cougar-hunting"; I'm directing my energies elsewhere in self-improvement and understanding myself and then perhaps once I have fulfilled that, then I can be in a better position to meet people and so on.

  • Your writing is great and clearly, you're very intelligent. If you like death metal, surely some goth-esque girl would go for you?

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  • i love the way you express yourself not unlike listening to someone speak a foreign language that rolls off the tongue effortlessly, melodically...considering I understood the language lol. anybody can be like everybody else and be average. try to keep an open mind, don't look down on those different from you, don't criticize or judge. appreciate differences like youd like to be appreciated. usually this comes with maturity, so I think things will improve for you as long as you don't isolate yourself, become bitter, antisocial, condenscending etc. be willing to learn from those you interact with, learn mannerisms, social cues...just don't get creepy with obsessing over it lol.

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    • Much obliged. I try not to be judgmental or condecending because I know the pain of rejection and it is something I would not subject others to. Thus far I am isolated in which case I am committed to turning that negative into something positive.

  • it seems to me that you are a smart and probably fairly attractive guy, I think your only issue is communicating. when you meet a girl start out talking about whatever you notice, the weather perhaps or maybe a compliment but make sure its a small one so you don't creep her out like saying she has a pretty hat or something (id try to stick with shoes or head apperal some girls may think you a perv if you talk about there pants ie their butt and legs or shirts ie their chest get it?). Once you get a conversation started (even if its about the coffee your ordering) maybe try a joke? I personally love a guy who can make me laugh as long as it's not vulgar humor. If you can maybe sneak in some bragging about yourself such as academic achievments? maybe your off to class or something? Or maybe your both free for a little bit and can sit to have coffee together. whatever you do please don't lie. It just gives all guys a bad rep.

    ok well I think that's all I got. I really hope this helps, fingers crossedd, good luck!

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    • Thanks for the reply; it is greatly appreciated. I think you made a very good point in all-I just need to communicate and feel at ease making pleasant chatter (I often overanalyse everything to nth degree) and overall being as engaging as I possibly can. Thanks again.

  • Unfortunately, its hard to tell through text what kind of vibes you sent or other subconscious factors that might be hendering your ability with girls.

    Unfortunately, people(and namely, girls) suck.

    According to what youve described, you have some very attractive traits(to me)...obvious intelligence, drive, your preference for metal, cute face, virgin ha ha etc etc.

    Some things that I can see might be less attractive...a lack of confidence and maybe overthinking/overanalyzation of things, which might stem from the low self esteem. Confidence, and there is such thing as too much!-very fine line-, is pretty important to the aura you create around you.

    But it seems you're aware of these things. But the hardest part is actually applying it. =}

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    • Alright hiiamabat, he has all these attractive traits as you say, so here's a big question: WOULD YOU DATE HIM GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY?

      if you say no, then damn you must be picky! This would imply that perhaps his downfall isn't his own self, but the fact that women are usually too picky...

  • Sometimes intelligent men/women are intimidating to others. I happen to find intelligence attractive, so you are not unnerving to me.

    Also, I don't listen to metal, but I don't have an issue with anyone who does. We all have our own taste, & if people knew I listened to 80's all the time, they'd think I was odd too.

    Don't lose confidence in yourself, you seem like a great catch. I'd go out with you if you lived in America, and I'm sure many women in Australia would date you too. Good luck!

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  • From your typing I can discern that you are a very intelligent individual- For some ladies this could be extremely unnerving... You have a way of seeing through window dressing- This makes some girls feel naked, if they can't dodge your “stares”...

    Although, Some girls (like myself) are drawn to the perspiring radiance of intelligence. It could be that you just haven't find the right girl that appreciates you for your talents...

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    • I believe you have put forward a very good insight I have overlooked; people can be intimidated by others who are perceptive and as you put it "see through window dressing"; perhaps my time hasn't come and it's merely down to timing (and positive action).

    • I agree* perceptive abilities can disturb people.

      & " perspiring radiance of intelligence" lol cool.

  • You are obviously a mysterious type of man. Many females, like myself, will be attracted to you. It is just a matter of finding/meeting her, no?

    Just an off note - I've seen your other picture. I cannot begin to explain how attractive you are. Plus, seeing the way you use words is amazing!

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  • First off, I want to say you have a very impressive vocabulary and great writing skills. I don't think I even detected a misspelled word throughout your message. That's an awesome accomplishment to having two degrees and attending law school!

    My advice to you would be don't be so hard on yourself-you sound very intelligent and nice.

    Oh, the updates.

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  • Appearance is the first thing everyone notices about anyone,whether the attempt or goal is to befriend or much more.

    I was going to say maybe you are ugly,but judging by the picture you are very good looking.So keep that up.

    You say you've had limited experience with females...perhaps,those limitations have turned into fears?or awkwardness.I can't tell how you act around women,what vibe/aura you send off,but if you are lacking confidence and have low self esteem,it does show,whether you hide it or not.

    I think you could possibly be thinking too hard about this whole "situation" if you could even call it that.

    My opinion,just a guess,is you are probably really shy,in which case...you have to go out of your shell.

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  • you obviously see yourself as very intelligent, this is probably true given your qualifications however you do come off as a little ... arrogant. Actually not anywhere near as much as many other people online and also unlike most people who would say things like

    "I happen to love death metal and the like but am nothing in the way of the caricatures you see who enjoy this music and so forth"

    I see what you are saying here (and actually do empathise with you somewhat) but it can come accross as arrogant when perhaps you have not found your true peer group or maybe you are so into self improvement it becomes difficult for you to engage with people who are not into it.

    I know how this feels so I would say to you that you need to, yes, chill out but work on meeting others who have similar philosophies, values etc. Its less abotu what you are into (music, films etc) and more about what drives you, what you believe in which will make you compatable.

    I doubt you want to waste your time dating people who don't engage you mentally so this will probably be one of the reasons why you have not experienced being with women so far.

    Rather than trying to make small talk and figure out why women find you unnerving maybe just develop a hobby or interest where you are going to meet more woman than your future career in law will probably allow. Maybe your university has some societies you can join (this may also help your CV showing you as a more rounded individual) or perhaps an evening philosophy class will show up more people who think like you and why will "get" you.

    failing that try link "for people who are interested in conversing, making friends, exchanging ideas, and dating people with an above average IQ"

    good luck x

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  • "Further update: I have decided on reflection, that in a sense it is not worth trying to work out why women find me unnerving etc. and I am better served directing these energies to self-improvement and being the best possible person I can be "

    Yea pretty much but I was going to say in addition I don't see anything wrong with you. You are well spoken, are patient enough to even bother with any self introspection , and it appears you are trying respect yourself an other by dong so. I think the fact you study law and are still willing to put questions towards others, speaks well of your ability to acclimate to different situation- you may be you are more flexible than you think. Plus law is awesome & having ambitions is always attractive to men & women.

    Perhaps two degrees and law school has presented more of a practical problem than a behavioral one. You have simply had less time to mac on chicks :) I think maybe you just haven't clicked with anyone yet but my guess is it'll happen for sure. & Don't worry about the death metal thing. I know some really awesome people who are into death metal. Tho of course I found out by accident- but hey - I still love them :)

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  • could it be a self-fulfilling prophecy? you're a good catch, attractive, intelligent, good job...perhaps you intimidate some women. maybe only date other educated women, otherwise you may make some people feel dumb. the virginity thing may scare some women away, don't tell them for a while, or until they ask. music has nothing to do with it.

    like I said before, you seem like a very, very good "catch"...maybe subconsciously it's you who is just waiting for someone up to your standards to come along?

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    • I think you make a very apt observation too-I believe I know my worth and consider that I have to offer and will equally not settle for anything less than what I feel I deserve; much in the same way I would expect others to think and feel the same. Overall it's all about patience and positive-thinking; and I am well on the way to the latter following some rough years.

      Thanks for your insight; it was most welcome.

    • What a wonderful response!:) you're going to make some woman very happy when you find her...

      i read an article once that the more educated one is the more difficult it is to find a partner. because you have higher standards and expectation, and maybe you're just smart enough to see through people's games. well, happy trails and don't settle:)

  • To be honest, it is probably your intelligence that intimidates women. Not that it's a bad thing! Whether I'm right or wrong, it doesn't matter what people really think of you, if there only willing to put you down. You just need to look at your own positive attributes, such as your intelligence, and the fact that you're 'pleasing to look at', and just be happy with what you have. You seem to have the right approach, you just need to meet people who will appreciate you for who you are.

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  • you sound like a psycho/ bore...read this to yourself. Now think. "Would I want to date a woman who just wrote this?" probably not. there ya go.

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    • I beg to differ. Your first remakr is a little inappropriate for a start and and was very glib. If someone expressed themselves in that way I'd be very interested in finding out what makes them tick instead of jumping to assumptions.

    • Show All
    • Excuse me...***not to say

    • Um wow. okay... I'm honestly not trying to hurt you feelings just stating one persons opinion. And I wouldn't consider myself "smoking hot" just average but thoe are my real pitures. And what Iook like shouldn't make my opinion more or less valuable....Bu thanks for the compliment Ikarus ( ;

  • No, you need to get laid and I'm not sure how to help. Sorry! That's honesty for you. Hmm, well I am a young woman of 30 years and will concur looks aren't everything you're correct but regardless there has to be chemistry. Like she makes you shiver. I don't know how it feels for a guy? If you don't feel chemistry early on (instant or 1st month)...move on. I've lived & learned that after nearly 11 years of marriage...

    Confidence alway turned me on, not cocky, confident. But in *moments, a little cocky is hot! Morals, like trustworthy, faithfulness are also turn on's. A passionate kiss. Remembering details, what was my favorite color, flower, scent? Hmm, I feel it all really links back to confidence. Start there & things will naturally progress. In the meantime play a sport or involve yourself in a hobby that makes you feel accomplished. Get good, I mean REALLY good at something & then something else. Build on that. A physically inclined man drives me nuts. Weither it's construction, sports, dancing, running, something physical. Body fitness matters...period. Work on the total package. Balance. Anything (almost anything) you are extreme about correct it to a balance. If you are too quiet...learn to be more involved in the conversation. Reading helps with that. If you smoke...quit. hmmmm, hope any of this is helpful. good luck. by the way I have to add... if I didn't love Jesus I probably wouldn't have cared enough to take the time to respond. He makes us better people than we are...just sayin'.

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  • i think girls are just intimidated by you're wonderful qualities. you'll run into someone worth it eventually. just don't put up a front.

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  • You said you had never had any positive experiences with women. Even in reading you writing you give me the impression that you are extremely uncomfortable around women. I think you may be putting women in an entirely different category than men. We are not all that dissimilar, men and women. Does small talk with men end that badly, and if not then who do you put to blame for the awkwardness in your conversations with women? Are women misunderstanding you or do you find yourself tongue tied? Look at the reasons you either behave in a certain way or interpret responses in a certain way. The step back and realize that women are human flesh and blood, same as you. You need to find out just what makes you uncomfortable then analyze why and take steps to mentally normalize your interactions with women. We are half the population, you are going to live very uncomfortably if you can't accept us and/or if you can't accept yourself around us.

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    • I will explain the situation as so-in my experience with women I have dealt with, thus far, except for a very select few I have been privileged to interact with, a distinct lack of character and a real sense of superficiality and intolerance. I blame them as I always try to be polite and conversational albeit sometimes slightly prone to making an occasional joke which betrays my somewhat deadpan/black sense of humour. Ultimately, I have been disillusioned by immature females; it may be a phase

    • As regards conversation, as indicated, I am very rarely at a loss for words-yet I find women misunderstand me because they are simply immature or do not have character. I believe my problem will rectify itself once my confidence is up and I interact with older, more intelligent and more worldly women who can appreciate people from all different persuasions and of different opinions. Put simply-I have encountered, for the most part, duds that have tainted my perception; but that will change.

  • you are a smart guy...you're the type of person I would probably lovae to talk about philosophy or literature about...and I would be attracted to you...except for somethings low confidence, which means I can't trust you to dominate me when I need it...in other words you don't sound like you have the cojones to chase me around, grab my attention, flirt endlessly with me, or steal a kiss, meaning I don't feel like life could have variety or excitement with you...advice: become more free and less uptight, be a little more out there...but rather than that stay on the path you are on...it shows you have goals, ambition and it also demonstrates responsibility and someone I can talk about freud or about rights or morbid angel so just excite it up a bit

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    • Completely agree with you. Those are the only problems I see. Couldn't have said it better myself.

    • Thanks....i really don't even find the cojones part right now that I've chatted with "BurningHammer" he's got them and humour lots of it too....i think its just a little need to get out there talk the the girls specifically about dating and having the risk to ask out....but I think he's got almost everything covered

  • I'd do you.

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  • You seem like a nice guy, I think if you love yourself and really find yourself you will even later find a woman that will enjoy not only your company but everything about you. Just be confident in yourself and everything will fall into place. I think the ladies see that you are not confident with them and they can tell. If you become more confident then they will find you more desirable. Good luck to you.

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  • I honestly think the reason why you seem to repel females is one reason and one reason only.

    You

    are

    lazy

    You seem to be so wrapped up in your own little box.. You seem to not care about the others around you. Why not open up.. become more relaxed and don't shy away!

    I guarentee this is the reason.

    Girls like to be noticed, so give them all the attention!.. although.. not too much

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    • Lazy? that's not the word I'd use, considering the fact he's going to law school and that's no cake walk.

      maybe antisocial a bit. but not lazy

    • Seriously? He is not lazy! He is actually quite ambitious which is an appealing quality.

  • its your life do what you feel is right with it...if you feel u're not ready then ure not,am really pleased to know there's still guys out there that are virgins..

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  • More from Girls
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What Guys Said 23

  • Your suffering isn't unique. But it sucks.

    I have the cure, but it sounds like it might not be your cup of tea.

    It's called "social calibration" which can't be gained from reading books or watching movies. It requires real world experience. Experience you didn't gain in high school like many others. I didn't either, so don't fret.

    Perhaps you're a perfectionist (unwilling to try something before you've perfected it), or perhaps you've found solace in your Bat Cave. Either way you're never going to get better with women sitting in your room lamenting about it.

    Here's the Hard Truth: getting good with women requires you to do what everyone else does ... you have to interact with people. Everyday. Forever.

    I once read that it takes everyone a minimum of 10,000 hours of purposeful effort to master something. This includes reading, writing, playing an instrument, and even attracting women.

    Some kids are lucky enough to become highly involved in social activities (sports, sporting events, parties, clubs, etc) which naturally leads them down the road of 10,000 hours of social interactions. Each small interaction builds a person's social calibration.

    So, if you're acting awkward around other people it's because you're not comfortable around other people. This comfort comes from experiences. If you want to be good with women you must be good with EVERYONE.

    So, force yourself to make small talk with EVERYONE! From the dude who's bagging your groceries, "Hey man, where did you get those shoes?", to the super hot chick who works at Blockbuster, "Hey, have you seen Avatar? Is it really worth my time?"

    Those tiny interactions add up. Those interactions bring you a tiny bit more confidence for next time. Eventually you learn a funny joke. Eventually you learn to tell stories. Eventually you learn how to flirt, tease, and excite.

    But it takes time, patience, and commitment.

    It doesn't take forever, but you will need to do it to see any results.

    Is it worth it? That's up to you. You can learn this stuff now while you're still young, or you can learn it when you're 40 and finally p*ssed off enough to do something about it.

    Either way I congratulate you on your first steps... being brave enough to ask us for advice.

    No go out there, talk to people, and calibrate!

    Then check back here and update us.

    ~ Robby

    My blog ( link )

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    • Your post I believe is an invaluable gem of advice-I think I just need to go out there and try to interact with everybody. For too long I tended to isolate myself but the cost has far exceeded the benefit. Thanks-I will not disappoint.

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    • Very inspiring, Thomas Edison once said "I've not failed, I've just found out 10,000 or more ways that won't work"

    • Nice post!

  • Hmm... you sound like a brutal pragmatist and painfully honest person. Am I correct? I only say this because your judicious avoidance of the vernacular -- while impressive and something to admire from a pupil of language such as myself -- sounds articulate but not poetic, illustrious but not beautiful. It's nothing personal, just a mere observation.

    It's a delicate dance, my friend. To enchant women one must be able to surprise a girl but not intimidate, be charming but not appear arrogant (which, in my mind go completely hand in hand...) -- you have to simultaneously sweep a girl off her feet, but at the same time make her feel secure.

    Work on your self expression. Be articulate, but not as precise surgical steel usually is. You have a talent for communication, employ it to communicate, not intimidate. Intelligence, you clearly possess, so use that to your advantage. The power of the mind is an abstract part of human life -- it is not grounded in the physical. Warm it up to be something likable to others. To appreciate pure, intellectual power is something an intellectual appreciates, not a woman. You must wrap your mental strength with measured poetic-softness.

    Confidence, intelligence, and good looks to boot. Wrap that in some gift-wrap and you, my friend, are absolutely sexy.

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  • I read all the replies before wanting to comment. It's interesting the person you clashed with (hope_9) I have had similar experiences. Being called a bore etc. I don't know what it is but there is definately something to it. For some, it seems being sensible or mature (or too intellectual) is a big turn off, or intimidating or something. I'm still trying to figure it out myself.

    I know there is one aspect.. it's a generalisation but also quite true. Women respond to the little things, and are heavily emotional. Where as men are more oblivious to the little things and prefer logic and reasoning, things that are less erratic and make more sense. Of course, there are many exceptions.

    The advice here seems to be really good, hard to add anything more then that. I think I am in the middle, not where you are (a bit more laid back) , but also not exactly comfortable or carefree. It's a daily struggle to prevent clashing with certain types of people who expect different things from you. The advice here was so good, need to try some of it myself. Hopefully it's worthwhile to find that person you are compatible with long term.

    I guess the conclusion is that in your workplace or in certain situations, it'd good to be serious and intellectual. However in more social settings, it's better to let that deep thinking stuff go, and to be more in the moment, silly and carefree. In these situations people don't care about right and wrong or reasoning, but rather having fun in the moment and feeling good about themselves.

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  • I think you've been a bit unlucky, and are more likely to find someone later based on your description. You seem intelligent, just don't ever be arrogant. And I listen to melo-death metal myself, but when I'm in mixed company I just switch the tunes over to my 90's music.

    Best of luck

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  • first off, I already got annoyed with how many big words you felt you had to use to get your point across, which in the end was ironic because I WASNT spared the agony of reading your entire treatise of why your low self esteem is at a low ebb. we get it, you're smart, blah blah blah, but you don't have to boast about and intimidate any woman that's trying to just have small talk with you. she may think you're handsome, but the second you open your mouth she's blown away and walks away thinking sh*t I didn't know I had to bring a dictionary to talk to this guy. if this is the way you speak to women in real life then no wonder you're still a virgin! I mean face it, if it was the other way around and you were boning some girl would you really want her to say "penetrate my birth canal from which if you fail to withdraw before ejaculation, your offspring will one day emanate from!"? No, I don't think so, you'd probably just want her to say "f*** me hard just pull out before you cum!". just take it down a notch einstein, women are impressed by intelligence, not arrogance.

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    • Holy sh*t and I just read your profile lol...like, are you forreals dude?! hahahaha DAMN!!!! unnecessary amount of verbiage there hahahah!

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    • Metaphorically as "outsmarting" your prey if this makes any sense.

      trust me, I myself think on a higher level than most people do but I adapt to who I am in the presence of, creating rapport and gradually letting them in to the way I think. this eventually earns the respect of women who can immediately detect a mans intelligence by the way a man carries himself but see that you're not some jackass walking around belittling people unintentionally or not. even just looking at some of the

    • Positive responses women have given you on this post, their word choice seems rather awkward but none the less, obviously influenced by the thought of them not wanting to look "stupid" in your eyes and having to match your lingo to avoid feelings of inadequacy, albeit you two will never meet in person (most likely).

      anyway, you asked an honest question, I am giving you an honest response, in the end it is up to you what you would like to take from it.

  • Thinking (and REALLY BELIEVING) that women want nothing to do you with beyond a short volley of small talk can be literally devastating to a man's ego and self-image. The deep depression that can develop has the ability to become "the dangerous kind", if you know what I mean. As far as Mother Nature is concerned, there is absolutely no bigger reason for a man to be walking upon this planet but to make copies of himself with a member of the opposite sex. His reason for existing comes into question when he feels as though he is failing at this task.

    BurningHammer, I'd like to help you in any way I can. maybe in not so public a venue; the choice is yours. You might be surprised to learn that it's not that hard at all in theory. In fact, if you boil it down, it's nothing more than building yourself a different belief-set. I say 'boil it down' because it is VERY challenging to change the way your brain thinks, not necessarily the way it thinks about women, but how it thinks about you and your capabilities.

    Good looks come into play only as a first and last resort. How? Good looks, as intended, will attract females(first) but if you're a complete jack-ass good looks STILL might get you laid as long as you agree not to talk to her...lol... Other that that, you're right: looks don't mean a thing.

    The basics, DO come into play with the ladies, of course. ie, keep yourself clean. Do not ever stink. if you can help it. If your choice in tunes has a knack for making your date's face melt and catch fire, I would suggest tossing the Enbalmer CD into the backseat and letting her pick a station on the radio. Letting her pick the station gives YOU the chance of learning what kind of music she likes without ever having asked her. Some ladies would jump on your lap just for that...

    Just let me know if you'd like to correspond. I wish you luck

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    • Your offer has piqued my interest and I'd be interested to go further-I believe you may have more valuable insight to offer.

  • haha, this thread cracks me up.

    Almost everyone has demonstrated the erroneous perception that if someone is a good writer/uses big words, it must mean he is smart.

    not so! But I guess considering most of the people posting on this thread are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, this is the kind of faulty conclusion I would expect to see people come to.

    vocabulary and writing ability are not reliable indicators of intellect! lol

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  • I've always felt that looking at a few of my friends, that the higher the intelligence there is, the harder it is to date. You said it yourself. You are "set" in your ways. While I do feel you have a multitude of problems, I'll try to tackle two. And I'll avoid all platitudes to match your intelligence and expectations.

    If you are set in your ways, it's a almost certain you will have trouble finding a girl. Why? This involves changing priorities, schedules, and certain things you simply don't want to change. You need to forgo this mentality. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Dating a girl means realizing your life is meant to be shared, and that means allowing yourself to be open to change. You are not going to meet someone who is going to be accepting of all your lifestyle completely.

    Keep in mind that I'm not asking you to change yourself. No. You said it yourself that you are happy the way you are. And truth be told, any girl that dates you is going to have to accept that. Just don't be different, for the sake of being different.

    Last, you spoke of attraction levels. To be honest. I have never gotten a date based on looks or attraction levels. It's almost always been my personality. I usually act like a goof ball, cause that's how I really am when I can relax and simply be myself. I doubt you lack a personality. That's the curse of being educated. You learn a great deal about your intelligence, but you have little way of how it works in the dating scenario since you only used it with textbooks. My point, is that you need to use what you've got. Forget looks, and focus on what you've yet to try using your intelligence on. And that's getting to know the opposite sex.

    As a last side note, I'd like to point out a few things. Let's look at some facts, that you might need to hear otherwise. You're educated, ambitious, driven, and realistic. I urge to realize what you have to offer, and learn to use what you've been given but probably have ignored or have no idea how to execute.

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    • Your points have been extremely well-articulated and cut right to the core of my situation; particularly the last point-the fact that I have so much at my disposal yet have not taken advantage of them/have not realised how to use them to my advantage. Once again my thanks-your among with the overwhelming majority of answers have been very greatly appreciated and most helpful.

  • STOP MASTURBATION IMMEDIATELY ! Also p*rn and lusting excessively over women. Worshiping women all together. This will ease up your tension around women. You want to be cool, and you want some GAS IN THE TANK. If you are spilling your seed down the drain, you are running low on power.

    When you save your seed inside you. Then you have MORE of a motivation to GOOOOO after women no matter what it takes. Also takes away the nervousness and shame of being a masturbator.

    When you put women on high, then you have a performance anxiety, it's like every time you talk to a woman you think you are in an interview with Donald Trump or something. hey man relax be cool talk to many women and expect nothing to happen If you TRULY TRULY like her then ask her out casually it's not the end of the world REMEMBER YOU ARE IMPORTANT IN THIS TOO> SHE HAS TO IMPRESS YOU AS WELL AND YOU BRING A LOT TO THE TABLE !

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    • I like how you put it-I need to ensure I'm "juiced up" (hillarious) and not put people on a pedestal. Very funny and very true.

    • For Sure!! Go one month at least starve all of your sexual desires. Then when you bump into a cute girl, who is in the mood to talk then you can express your self in a natural way with no shame. Also Remember you matter a lot too in this. Be polite and ask her questions like where she works, what education she has, what she drives, sometimes as men we do all the question answering as if we were some criminal in court room. You ask her and put her on the spot, be polite always though.

  • I've never had a girlfriend and I'm 22, it can be very depressing at times but I do know there are a lot of worse things in life than being a virgin or never having a girlfriend

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  • I love your writing style and my friends and I were in somewhat of a similar situation to yours.

    The thing is, you have to be able to change your word choice, change the vocabulary from which you draw words to interact with people as those people change. The way you wrote this question would be great for talking to me, my friends, or some other people. Maybe you would talk with a slightly more elaborate and more professional tone with a professor.

    But with a girl at a bar or something, you really gotta dumb it down man. Just, like, try to speak the vernacular or something. lol

    Although, don't let yourself get caught making blunders by saying modern catch phrases that you don't really understand in the complete wrong context.

    Hope this helps.

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  • Your right, attractiveness really gets you nowhere with women. The thing is, women aren't going to let you off that easy.

    An attractive woman already has won; she doesn't need an exciting personality, doesn't need any confidence, doesn't need a high social status, popularity,or money etc. She will get approached daily, asked out daily, gain attention daily, get favors done for her daily, etc.

    But for guys its different. Women won't give up attention to you; they are selfish. It doesn't matter if you look good, they have large egos and are narcissistic. They feel no one is more important than them at any given time

    Only thing you can do is find a way to make them laugh. Be funny. If your in a group, tell an interesting story. Doesn't matter if its made up or not, just anything to keep them interested

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    • Good point-women are constantly under siege from guys in the attention stakes, the butt-kissing stakes, and the doe-eyed puppy love/gift giving stakes to the extent they become sick of it. As you point out, a humourous anecdote with a bit of attitude and not pandering to women would probably work wonders.

  • To start with, that picture leaves people to quickly put you in a stereotype. If you dress that way, then that might be part of the problem (I know, I hate stereotypes as well...) I think that you are looking at what you are trying to change at the top when instead you should be digging a bit deeper towards a larger idea which will clear up a lot more problems that it may be causing apart from just this one.

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  • Law, death metal, you sound, like you wanna be right all the time

    start doing this

    love, be kind even when looked at negatively, share, try and tell yourself positive things only ,

    words have power, if you tell yourself negative things all the time, you'll live and die negatively and you won't enjoy life, and don't give into selfish demands of a women, cause unfortunately most women are selfish now a days k there's more to say but I'ma leave it like that

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  • maybe its your vocabulary. haha, you probably make girls feel stupid. you mention how their 'unnerved'?

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  • dude you sound way too effin smart. you can be smart and not use extreme vocabulary. I don't know I think girls are intimidated by that. if that's not what you asked sorry, I didn't have time to read that long ass novel you got there lol

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    • That's a funny point alright-I didn't think of it that way. But it's cool-maybe I'm too verbose for my own good.

  • And yes, you did make some good points.

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    • Oops, posted this in the wrong section.. disregard it.

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    • Lol same here...this sh*t is getting too long to keep track of hahaha

    • What the..

  • Bc of your default pic and because you use words like "malice"?

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    • It's only a display picture-to make presumptions on that would be pretty nonsensical.

    • Well its kinda scary I mean some girls are into that...but not any that I know. If you like your dp chances are your style is an acquired taste.

    • Yes I suppose you have a point there and initial impressions could be in the negative; but overall my tastes etc. are acquired and not necessarily easily appreciated/accepted.

  • after reading that I realized I gotta expand my vocab.

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  • Have you got 'er bucked yet?

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  • I have similar problems to you... Didn't have much female interaction or much social interaction early in life (because of the school I went to) and now I am pretty much socially isolated. On the other side of the coin, for everything you lose/miss out on, something else is gained. You are going to make a lot of money if you become a lawyer. Buy a nice car/house, wear nice clothes, look wealthy in general... and women will go out of their way to get to know you. Or just put a profile on a dating site and tell them how much money you make. Don't use that vocabulary when you write about yourself. Try to talk like the average Joe. This probably won't happen until you are in your early 30s (when most women look for a husband to support them and future children), but still it's something to look forward to I guess.

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    • Also if you got a haircut and shaved, you would look more normal/approachable.

  • ur smart figure it out ursefl

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  • Hmm...very interesting guy. I bet I would have some good intellectual conversations with you if we met in real life. I'm 28 now, but I was just like you when I was 19.

    You are still a virgin and I know what sucks. I was a smart/weirdo I was lucky to find a slut at 16 to lose mine too. She wasn't ugly, but not the homecoming queen either. . However there was one thing I did have at that time. I was very FORWARD. I was rebellious (under the influence of substances...I'l admit). I've since slept with over 20 girls. I'm not stud...even a little dorky. However there are times I can "turn it on" in some situations.

    What you need to do is hit on girls you are NOT attracted to. I know that sounds hard to do. You also need to unwind a bit. You need to find a group of guys...good wingmen to hang out with. A good wingman helps DISARM a girl when you are in social setting so she's opens up more to the whole group. So definitely need to party more. Make friends with other romantically SUCCESSSFUL guys.

    Remember women want you to be easy going/uninhibited so THEY an feel the same way. Not to blast women, but most of them are pretty idiotic/clueless/dumb when it comes to your deep thinking. It hurts too much for them to use their brain cells at that level. Not their fault totally...because girls like that are strange too and don't want to be labeled a "misfit".

    So get out there, have some fun and have NO AGENDA but to have fun. When you are on an objective to get some...it shows whether you know it or not. But when you are carefree...girls love that!

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