Are women the selectors in the dating world and men have to wait to be selected by a woman?

[VeohTV]

If men have to wait to be selected by a woman, does that mean he has to rely on a woman to notice and flirt with him first, that way he can say to himself "he's no longer single" cause he has somebody that actually likes him?

Knowing that if he made the first move by seeing a woman he likes, he'll get rejected.

I'm not saying women should date every single guy to makes the first move but it seems unfair that a great guy would get turn down because, women had a bad relationship with an ex, so the great guy has to suffer for that.

It seems even more pathetic when after a confess his feelings to a female friend of his, after she kindly told him "lets just stay friends", but later own in life, after she change her mind about her (knowing she finally starts liking him more than just a friend) after she apologize to him for breaking his heart, he'll give her a second chance and still want to date her... A girl will never want to still date a guy (who kindly rejected her at first) after he change his mind about her, and that's not right.

[AmongTheApples]

No. Because as Eleanor Roosevelt said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." I'll never understand why so many people on here, especially the guys, base their confidence on what other people, most of whom they don't even really know, think of them. Men with real confidence approach women to whom they are attracted regardless of whether the woman has given them any signs, and they immediately begin to actively attract her. If they get rejected, they brush it off because they know their worth and also know that, one rejection doesn't mean it's over, so they alter their approach and realize that it's just going to take a little longer this time than it normally does; or that, more often than not, I'll meet another girl that very night who will make me forget about the first girl who rejected me.

You're also taking all this stuff far too serious and far too personally, and it's making you bitter. The actions of another, including their rejecting you, almost always has nothing to do with the other person (you). It has to do with something about the other person (her)—something in her past or current situation, or her personal preferences. In other words, there are so many things that can lead to a rejection—most of which have nothing to do with you—that you shouldn't take rejections so personal. Also most rejections aren't permanent (unless you make it that way by acting like a child after it), and even if it is, believe it or not, if the girl really likes you as a friend, she will hook you up.

[jaegerffff]

i want to be like this all the time but, its hard to actually do it.. mentally I get it

[Hanzo]

Well I suppose that is one way of rationalizing the dynamics of male female interaction.

Example you can have the utmost confidence in your skill for a job...(MAN) but if the employers (WOMEN) don't find you competent enough regardless of how high you think of yourself...it isn't going to happen... simple as that. It seems nice what you said though but sadly it's not the reality.

[jaegerffff]

thats only your opinion hanzo. reality is not your silly ideas in your head that aren't from actual experience.

[AmongTheApples]

I'll expound your metaphor because it supports me. If you're jobless (single), how long will you stay that way if you await companies (a woman) to seek you out for an interview (she giving you a sign with little to no effort from you)? A long, long time. If you look for a job, especially if you better yourself as you do, you get one a hell of a lot faster and, at times, a company that once said no will hire you after you've bettered yourself or your education. Women are the same.

[Hanzo]

hats only your opinion hanzo. reality is not your silly ideas in your head that aren't from actual experience.

Excuse you? I suppose you can also tell me when I was born and what my favorite color is...

YES I have indeed experienced this. How ignorant to think otherwise. Right I will be waiting a long time but GUESS WHAT? A WOMAN WON'T she can sit back and ALWAYS have an "employer."

[Hanzo]

You are not expounding so much as misconstruing. What I am saying is...women don't do the searching and approaching men do...therefor women always have a surplus of men to select or wait to be interacted with. Many men don't. AGAIN no matter how much you THINK you are adept if you are JUDGED otherwise (women) you won't get anywhere. Ill go into this part.

[Hanzo]

Listen if a woman rejects a man she isn't going to say...work on this this this and your confidence come back and I will date you... the way an employer will say get better skilled at this this this and recievce a PHD instead of a bachelors and we will give you work. That is what you don't get. The analogy was to serve the purpose of conveying the dynamics of male female interaction YES even through personal experience in what you referred to as a "silly idea."

[AmongTheApples]

You're all over the place now or maybe you don't convey yourself very well. Is English your native language?

[AmongTheApples]

You're right that most women have more guys to pick from than guys generally do. That's true. But I guess I'm one of your exceptions and what I wrote up there is a lot of the reason why.

[AmongTheApples]

But you're wrong thinking that a woman never changes her mind about dating a guy. It happens all the time. Many things can lead to a rejection and if one of those factors change or the guy betters himself ("sees him in a different light"), then she will give him a chance.

[Hanzo]

Not of she meets him off the street I was saying. She is going to say come back here next week and after you fix that we will go out. That exception means you must be in a social circle. Like I said if ou are complete strangers when commencing the interaction and the previous mentioned dynamic it's not going to happen.

[AmongTheApples]

I concede that, for the most part, if it's a stranger and she does not get his number, then it's usually over. But, not always. I asked a girl for her number and didn't get it. She claimed to have a boyfriend. A year and half later (give or take), I saw her eyeing me, but trying to avoid my gaze. I approached her, and it went well; she was just nervous. I asked for her number and got it. If I had soaked and allowed her initial rejection to hurt my confidence, I never would have gotten her.

[AmongTheApples]

Of course, I meant does if it's a stranger and she does not give her number

[Hanzo]

Right which is the majority of how interactions work through real world or online...

"A year and half later (give or take), I saw her eyeing me, but trying to avoid my gaze. I approached her, and it went well; she was just nervous. I asked for her number and got it.

Lucky you that waiting a year and a half paid off. This I am assuming is a girl who you "knew" because they odds of her being a complete stranger and then seeing her again 18 months later makes me take a dim view if she was.

[AmongTheApples]

I didn't wait for her. I'm not advocating waiting on anyone. If you do that, you'll spend a lot of time alone. I had just stopped seeing a girl not long before running into her again. Obviously, she liked me and remembered me. It turned out that she did have a boyfriend when I'd asked her before. Are you saying that you've never talked to, or caught a glimpse of, someone on campus, in a bar, at a mall, etc. and ran into them or seen them after that? If you so, you got to get out more.

[UncleScrooge]

I'm not sure I understand everything you wrote, but to answer your main question, yes, I think it's quite obvious that women are the selectors... at least in Western society. That's not to say it's entirely their fault; for whatever reason, men decide to pursue women, so why should women do anything other than sit and wait? I'm sure I don't have to tell you that if a guy decides to sit around and wait for a woman, he's going to be single forever. But every woman knows that she's going to be approached by many men, so all she has to do is wait, dismissing the ones she doesn't like until she finds someone that does it for her.

I have no idea how this system came about, but that's just the way it is, and there's really no reason to meditate on the fairness of it all. Of course, you could always refuse to play the game... just as long as you're willing to be single.

[Anonymous]

I think many guys makes the first move. The guys that wait for girls to make the first move are usually shy and don't talk to them first. Its not that the guy has to take which girls comes to him it is that he doest put himself out there.

And I never thought of the last paragraph you wrote. Is it really true that a guy would take the girl back if she initially asked to be just friends? :O Ur right on how a girl won't take him back but I didn't know guys would accept her again? :O

[Hanzo]

Yes he is right about that part. Men put themselves out their all the time, trying to qualify themselves foolishly and women always enjoy the rejecting and ego boost it gives them when they do it. That is why women don't approach, they realize that if that happened to them it would be the be all end all, that's why you never see them go out there the way men do.

[VeohTV]

Have you watch MTV's Friendzone? When the guy confess to his female friend, that he likes her but sometimes after she rejected him, later own after a few weeks she starts to finally think of him as her boyfriend so he gives her a second chance.

[AmongTheApples]

No, it's not always true (unless the guy is just a complete loser). Just as it is with almost everything, it depends on several factors, the most important of which is what she said and did before, during, and after rejecting him. I have given some girls a second chance, but have also consigned many of them to the friend zone to languish forever.

[jaegerffff]

i don't think so. it is not "men or women" it is individual. both scenarios go both ways.

[Hanzo]

Don't listen to that MTV nonsense. It's just a reference to the actual dynamic of women putting men in the friend zone and them "majestically" overcoming it. Like every things on T.V shows like that it doesn't happen in the real world.

[VeohTV]

Hanzo, how do you know that, MTV's Friendzone is not real reality? When I watch it seems real to me.

[Tarvold]

You need some serious real world help because your whole view of male and female roles and interactions in this dating world is so far off target, it's hard to address your questions with just an online comment.

Essentially, you need to forget everything you think you know about men and women and start over. Realize that the two genders are fundamentally different in very very deep and significant ways, and every detail in behavior you see is the manifestation of some very deep motivators, agendas and drivers and centuries of social evolution.

I wish I could help you more. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

A woman can't choose a man that hasn't chosen her, himself and expect things to work out. And just because a man is with a woman, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's actually chosen her.

That's what it should mean, don't get me wrong, but with our hook-up culture and varying intentions across the board in today's world, casual dating and how common that is, it doesn't always work like that. So if a woman really wants a relationship to work, she must choose from the men that have first, chosen her, and in a way, that makes men the selectors. ;)

[Opinion Owner]

It really just comes down to both men and women and what they're looking for in life and in a partner. It has to line up.

[Hanzo]

But what you are missing is that women have the final and most important say.

I could say to a woman...I think you will make a great wife and mother to my children and want to spend the rest of my life with you BUT if SHE says NO then it isn't going to happen. ANything else after that is harassment. WOMEN never approach and put themselves in that position. A woman for example buying a ring and proposing to a man is preposterous.

[Anonymous]

You're close, but not quite on.

Men are not passively waiting for women to choose him, males must show what they have to offer and hope to be selected by the female based on that. This isn't just in humans, but in most animal species this mating ritual happens.

Why do you think males are more aggressive in regards to finding a mate than females are?

[Hanzo]

Exactly, also in animals when do you ever see a female anything make a move on a male. Every organisms pretty much has to fight or contest for their approval that if women ever had to take on this role we would all be wiped out becuase the rejection would be too much.

[Opinion Owner]

You sound like one of those whiny bitches with your foreskin all rumpled over this topic...are you?

[Hanzo]

Lol OK who ever the f*** you are

[Opinion Owner]

You didn't answer the question. Are you a whiny bitch or no?

[Hanzo]

I don't owe you a response mystery person...and what would you think I would say...well whichever it was you would just see the worst of anyway. I bring up a point that has merit and then you call my character in question. I am trying to be civil here.

[Opinion Owner]

I'm just asking a simple question that only needs a simple answer. With your long, drawn out responses and responses on other questions, it seems like you are already aware that you whine about this stuff and play the poor pitiful victim...you just don't like it when people point it out to you.

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty sure that changes around your age, if the guy keeps himself in shape and has achieved a little career success.

Why not try hitting on younger women? More like middle 20's?

And yeah, I've had that experience--getting flak because the girl was screwed up by an ex. It's part of life. Take comfort in knowing that it's the screwed up girl who is the messed up one, not you, and they'll carry that for a long time. Meanwhile, you can still be happy and have a life.

[Anonymous]

The selectors are almost always:

- attractive women

- men who:

a) are attractive

b) have money or the promise of future money

c) have the James Dean / a**hole thing that many women find irresistible

[jaegerffff]

james dean isn't an a**hole.. he's quite the opposite

[ricke92m3]

I've gotten rejected A LOT. I've also gotten tons of girls. When people see your not afraid to be yourself they respect it and women are attracted to it.

[moviedude714]

Even player supreme says so, I believe for the most part women do the choosing

[Anonymous]

Guys get rejected while women sit and do nothing and accept the very few of the hundreds that approach her

[AD5866]

Are you serious? No woman gets approached by hundreds of men. Where are you getting these numbers?

[Hanzo]

Yes we are damn serious...get educated... you want an example...make an online dating profile and watch your inbox overload.. you will get more messages in your first day than men will get in a year. Seriously look this up.

[AD5866]

I'm not talking about online. Of course guys have more balls to approach online their behind a computer screen. I'm talking about real life.

[Hanzo]

I was using it as an example to represent the dynamic since you refuse to believe that this fact of the anon's is ridiculous.

No woman gets approached by hundreds of men. Where are you getting these numbers?

Proven wrong it happens.

[Hanzo]

Men pick women choose.

[jaegerffff]

!?!?!?!

[Hanzo]

Sigh... MEN pick the women the want to approach...WOMEN choose who they accept.

Women have the final say,

[jaegerffff]

not really. they like to believe they do but they are pretty much pretty waiting to be eaten by a predator (man)

[jaegerffff]

prey*

[Hanzo]

That term is called rapist.

[Hanzo]

Oh and the predator has to be hot...otherwise its harassment.

[Anonymous]

Yep. Get over it.

[Hanzo]

Spoiled f***ing rotten.

[Opinion Owner]

How the hell am I spoiled? If I'm spoiled you men are entitled.

[Hanzo]

NO not true. We don't demand that women change their ways, id would be nice to have a female initiate every now and again but we won't hold our breath over it. LOOK at you down votes, you have a very poorly taken view. If you ever had to be in the position men were in this regard you wouldn't be so steadfast to say such a thing. Just like telling a homeless to get over his situation and get a job when you don't know or even haven't been in his shoes or lack there of.

[Hanzo]

And don't be so quick to FLIP things around. If we really did feel entitled we would NEVER approach women and try to gain their approval and force them to approach us.

[Opinion Owner]

You think I care about downvotes? Really? Lol you men take this website too seriously. I was most likely down voted by all the bitter beta-males who plague this site. And (believe it or not) I have approached a guy before (actually multiple men) so quit assuming. If a woman isn't initiating she's either scared or finds you unattractive, or she's in a relationship. And you men are entitled because whenever you approach a girl you automatically think she has to say yes just for the simple fact

[Opinion Owner]

that you approached her. f*** all the things she wants, right? f*** the possibility that she might not find you attractive, right. f*** the fact that she might be interested in someone else or be in a relationship, right? f*** all that, she has to say yes for the simple fact that you're an entitled male and only your wants and needs matter. and the moment she rejects you she's automatically a "bitch" or "stuck up". THAT's entitlement.

[Hanzo]

I never said yes...YOURE the one assuming. I'll say it again since I know you women are more emotional and LOGICAL. YOUR F bombs are showing it.

"NO not true. We don't demand that women change their ways, id would be nice to have a female initiate every now and again but we won't hold our breath over it.

Where does that say she HAS to. YOU assume every man feels entitlmement...how judgmental of you.

[Hanzo]

Your inital comment above states that you have no empathy or sympathy for this struggle for males. So yes that does make you a stuck up ****. NOT to mention there are women who say they want X amount of things in a guy and when he comes along they blow him off, but those are just variants of a common outcome. All of what you just said SUPPOSITION. You literally just menstruated over the topic. I really don't like attitudes like that.

[Opinion Owner]

Its hard to feel sympathy for a lot of you men because instead of taking advice you constantly disregard it and continue to whine, which is why my answer is very blunt. You guys never take advice, you just continue to wallow in self pity.

[Opinion Owner]

NOT to mention there are women who say they want X amount of things in a guy and when he comes along they blow him off."

Bull. Shit. How many times have you seen this happen in real life? Not just something your friends told you, not something you heard on the internet, how many times have you seem this?

[Opinion Owner]

*seen

[Hanzo]

Telling someon to "Get over it" isn't sound advice...really it's not. LIKE I SAID it's like telling a homeless person...just get a job...you have.

Seen it? I have experienced as well as seen it...heard it on the internet everywhere it happens all the time. If this wasn;t as common as you thought you would have "ALL" or "A lot" of these men that need your unwelcomed getting over it "advice."

[Hanzo]

And a lot of men do feel sorry for oneself and other men becuase the women (YOU) don't show any...like I said if you ever had to be a part of this dynamic you wouldn't be so steadfast... my point stands interconnect and yours don't

[Opinion Owner]

Like I said its hard to feel sympathy for someone who continues to wallow in self pity instead of trying to change things. A guy getting rejected is NOTHING like someone being homeless. Are you even being serious? I would rather be rejected hundreds of times instead of being homeless.

[Opinion Owner]

And like I said I have approached and been rejected multiple times before. But instead of being a sad sack and feeling sorry for myself I go out and get a new outfit, or go to the gym, or do something to make myself feel better. I've never in my life been one to dwell on things.

[Hanzo]

Again your lack of ability to process logic evades you. I was saying it was something that one has little or no control over.

[Opinion Owner]

Little to no control over being rejected? No sh*t, the other person has a choice too.

[Hanzo]

Right and it is the man who puts himself in that postion because he pretty much has to. Even if you did approach men, you would never have to, you always have the option to passively wait for someone to come along...men don't have that. That is what you aren't getting.

[Opinion Owner]

Of course I don't have to, everyone does things they don't have to. But if I really like the guy I'll (eventually) approach him when I work up my courage. I'd rather approach him myself than always think "what if". And I do get the fact men have to initiate, it's been that way since the beginning of time. Guys are the ones who *really* want sex from women, so if you want sex then you are going to have to go out and try to get it.

[Opinion Owner]

My point was I have no respect for guys who hold pity parties after being rejected. Guys act if they have absolutely no choices when it comes to dating. Correct me if I'm wrong but guys get to select who they want to approach just like girls select who they really want.

[Hanzo]

Sex is a variable and by todays standards can easily be solved. I was referring to the dating and relationship aspect.

"And I do get the fact men have to initiate, it's been that way since the beginning of time."

It only took you about 10 replies to finally acknowledge that...which is funny because you didn't seem to factor that fact in when you hastily blurted out "Yep. Get over it."

Well my goal was to get you to acknowledge that and open your perspective and I did.

[Hanzo]

"Correct me if I'm wrong but guys get to select who they want to approach just like girls select who they really want."

With gusto... Read some of the other comments for starters but I will say that men can pick who they want to approach...BUT WOMEN CHOOSE WHO THEY APPROVE. So it would behoove you to take those words back about me saying they don't or are not allowed to have any say in the interaction. ONCE a woman says NO that's it...anything after that becomes harassment.

[Opinion Owner]

"...BUT WOMEN CHOOSE WHO THEY APPROVE"... um yeah..what the hell is wrong with that? Are we supposed to blindly say yes to every guy that approaches us? Women are naturally picky (a biological fact) when it comes to dating. If you had to *possibly* be pregnant for 9 months and then have the responsibility of a child for 18 years then you would be much pickier about who you choose to. Sure there are modern things like abortion/birth control, but our biological instinct still remains.

[Hanzo]

Didn;t I make it clear that I said they aren't supposed to blindy say yes...don't make me repeat it a third time. Dating and pregnancy are two different things. Again you keep bringing in variables. Men are equally responisble and always held more accountable for the 18 years part. But that is besides the point.

[Opinion Owner]

"Men are equally responisble and always held more accountable for the 18 years part." Really? Are you sh*tting me? No no really?

Yeah this argument is obviously going no where and I have better things to do, bye.

[Hanzo]

I was saying that there are more men being charged for that than women...but I see you can't stand up to fact so away with you.

[Hanzo]

Thats what happens when you start bringing tangible variables into an "argument."

All I wanted was for you to see that men have it more difficult and that we have to approach and take the risks and hard part. Now you can still have your attitude that you intially presented but that doesn't change fact.

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah, and I said that men can't get mad if they're rejected. And no one is forcing you to approach. But like I said, I'm not going to continue to argue with you over the internet. I honestly don't care about what you have to say and you're not going to change my opinion.

[Hanzo]

Actually in a way women are. But yeah we can just alienate each other and go nowhere. And here you are again so much for those better things huh? Insensitivity to what others say...that is one thing makes women enemies in the eyes of men...that's OK. I will find another to pay for your crime

[VeohTV]

Well I have to say Hanzo won this argument. The girl who gave her hostile answer wants to make it seem like women are more of the superior gender.