Why Rey Is Going Too Far

Ah, yes. You've seen her fairly cute mug all over the net.

Why Rey Is Going Too Far

And some people are irate, for whatever reason. Let me explain why JJ went way too far with Rey in Star Wars, and showed that today's feminism seems to mean "Girls can do everything better than guys".

In the course of one movie, Rey goes from being a scavenger on a hell hole world, to showing, mainly... she--

1. Is a skilled pilot, who can jump in the Millenium Falcon and expertly fly it against Imperial Tie pilots without hesitation or training or practice.

2. Is a skilled Jedi who can use mind tricks and manipulate the force with literally Zero training

3. Is a master fighter who literally grabs a lightsaber and takes on a trained, evil fighter who apparently is so skilled he murdered all of Luke Skywalker's jedi pupils. Apparently by himself?

Let's compare her to a legendary Jedi from the earlier Star Wars movies, Obi-Wan, to show the female vs male standard here. (Neither Obi-Wan or Rey are magical "chosen ones" so it is a good comparision.)

Let's look at Obi-Wan Kenobi's achievements.

Phantom Menace: Obi-Wan is roughly the same age as Rey, give or take, but he has spent his entire life being trained as a Jedi, and is the apprentice of Jedi Master Qui-Jon.

He is a skilled lightsaber fighter, and can use the force. He also gets told repeatedly he has much to learn, gets snubbed by the council when he asks to try out for the Jedi Trials, and literally wins his duel with Darth Maul by pulling a trick out of a hat right before he was going to get killed.

Attack of Clones: Obi-Wan is then a full Jedi Knight, far above Rey in training. A 30-something year old man who is a professional and a lifelong warrior.

1. He shows skill in tracking, and takes down a bounty hunter who tries to kill him in a seedy bar.

and then...

2. He gets his ass handed to him in close combat by a bounty hunter and his kid, neither of whom are jedi/sith.
3. Then barely survives and escapes Jango Fett in a space skirmish.
4. Gets ambushed and captured by *droids* on the Federation's main hideout, Geonosis.
5. Goes up against Count Dooku and gets his ass handed to him.

Okay, let's look at Revenge of the Sith:

Obi-Wan is even more of a skilled, experienced warrior Jedi.

1. He is a skilled pilot, but his ship gets ruined by tiny droids rather quickly.
2. He then takes on droids very well, and later Clone Troopers very well.
3. He *again* gets his ass handed to him by Count Dooku.
4. He goes up against General Grievous, not force sensitive, and literally only survives thanks to luck. When Grievous grabs him and lifts him up, instead of ripping the Jedi in two or crushing his throat, Grievous literally throws him next to a blaster.
5. Obi-Wan then fights Anakin and wins solely by being the calm, cool fighter and waiting for a moment when brash, aggresive Anakin made a mistake.

So let's be real here on the male vs female standard. One author I read claimed it was only because of sexism that anyone protested Rey's skills. The reality is that Rey, as an untrained scavenger, literally has MUCH greater success both as a pilot, and a fighter than Obi-Wan Kenobi himself achieves, even though Obi-Wan was literally trained as a Jedi, and a warrior, his whole life.

Untrained scavenger Rey takes on Kylo, who slaughtered every Jedi pupil Luke Skywalker had, and flies the Falcon as well as Han Solo.

Jedi Knight Obi-Wan literally has his ass handed to him by everyone from droids on Geonosis, to a bounty hunter and his kid both in close combat and in space, to Count Dooku on two occassions...

Can we see the feminism and grrrll power at work here?

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What Girls Said 6

  • I don't know look how harry potter turned out. I know that is a completely different genre. Still he mastered flying a broom stick and catching the remembrall ON HIS FIRST DAY! Then he becomes the best seeker ever instantly. Then just seems to master any hard skill that comes his way.

    Which I do that that about the movies. Since in the books he sounds more human. As in isn't 100% perfect with everything he does 24/7.

    Still just seems like they pulled the same thing with the chick. Which honestly I rather see that. Than deal with whinny annoying anakin or Luke.

  • I totally agree! I haven't thought much about it until now but when I saw the movie, I was really surprised at how quickly Rey suddenly was able to perform using a light saber against Kylo Ren and the Force, considering she had no training at all. I was a bit confused by that since in all prior movies, you can see how each person had to train considerably in order to learn how to do/use those things.

  • The Force is very strong in her, even Kylo Ren sensed that... she is probably Luke's daughter... that's why she is naturally talented.

    • That is one of the few theories that even begins to make sense. Only the Skywalker lineage would be so innately attuned to the Force so as to pick up its ways with so little instruction. That, or Abrams wants us to believe that Rey is somehow a new Chosen One, without anything being presented to us to help us understand how that could be.

      Yet, having Rey pick up so soon basically creates huge discontinuity with the prequels. With the original trilogy, her fast pace is forgivable. After all, Luke achieves an awful lot with bare minimum training and exposure. Still... having her become better than Obi-Wan out of nowhere, I agree, means feminism has jumped the shark.

    • @ObscuredBeyond It has nothing to do with feminism, LoL, it has to do with popularising Star Wars among female viewers... all for the profit ;)
      I think Rey is Luke's daughter, there are some similarities between them, so that theory is the most realistic, it explains why she is so talented for fighting and piloting, it's all in the genes :D

  • She reminded me a lot of Anakin--minus the whole "whiney space brat" thing. Like she was simply born an awesome pilot and using the force kind of comes natural to her. Kind of cheap, but it makes sense if she's his grandkid or great niece or third cousin or whatever the hell she turns out to be.

    • ehh, anakin still got his butt kicked by dooku one round, losing some limbs, captured by flying locust before that..

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    • with experience. he had already smashed upone podracer lol

    • Haha. He was still just a kid though. Wasn't Kylo Ren shot when he fought Rey, too? Maybe he was weaker from the injury.

  • Best take ever! I was thinking the same thing! Thank you!

  • I don't think its about feminism. That's how movies are. I've seen countless movies where a guy goes from nothing to basically a skilled fighter/super hero in no time and knows how to do shit you need training for naturally. But when its a female character people think it has to be a part of an agenda.

    • normally, i would agree. but this is movie 7 in a series where main characters have to learn their skills. obi wan, anakin, and luke all took movies to become skilled. not 20 minutes, lol.

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    • Yeah sorry I should have said I was talking to the take owner. I figured that's what you meant. I wasn't going to say anything, because I kind of touched on it in my opinion. But I wrote a lot an wasn't sure if he would read it all, so I mentioned it here.

      Sorry if I made it sound like I didn't know what you were talking about.

What Guys Said 38

  • And showed that today's feminism seems to mean "Girls can do everything better than guys".
    Okay this has been bugging me for a while,
    You use Raylan Givens as your pic
    Okay who became chief deputy marshal after Art was shot,
    It wasn't Raylan was it.
    It was the black woman Rachel Brooks and you know damn well she made a better chief than he would have

    • raylan was never a good marshall... but he was a far better lawman than art or rachel. that was his character. rachel did not achieve nearly what raylan achievemed.

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    • A dead man and one who was friends with nicky

    • a dead dirty cop

  • She's pretty hot tho

  • No other character in the history of Star Wars is as OP'd as Rey. I would say this even if Rey was a dude. All the greatest fighters of the Star Wars saga have had their asses' handed to them at least once at the very beginning of their journeys. She literally does a Neo (see Matrix) at the climax of the movie.

  • @KENKONG brought up some really good points by comparing Luke to Rey. However the problem with this is when it was done the first time with Luke we gave it a pass since it was the original trilogy and no one really knew the rules yet for Jedi training.

    I actually thought Finn would at least know how to use a light sabre since the other stormtrooper had some sort of blade to defend against it; implying that stormtroopers must get some sort of training with melee weapons. Even Luke received basic training from Obi Wan and didn't seem nearly as skilled as Rey in the beginning. Luke was naturally talented but Rey seemed to be born with these abilities and it made her character too overpowered.

  • Kylo Ren was severely injured by that crossbow blast, but yeah she was way too skilled with that lightsaber and flying. Blame the director for all that.

  • Jango Fett was a fierce and dangerous bounty hunter, and his son even better when he took up his father's helmet.

    Obi-Wan also hates flying, and he thinks flying is purely for droids.

    anyways, I'm not taking a stance because I haven't watched Star Wars yet lol. If you compare Obi-Wan's character in his other line of work though, like the Clone Wars animation, he is very impressive.

  • I don't see the feminism here, all I see is bad writing.

  • Lol no Kenobi is still far more skilled then her in almost every way lol, but I do agree it is kind of crap how she went from zero to hero just like that, the only way from a Star Wars prospective that she could be that skilled just like that *snaps fingers* is if she is lukes daughter.

    I mean even Anakin the chosen one and the most naturally powerful and gifted force user to exist needed training before he could become as strong as he was and he still lost to far better duelists with better experience.

    Now of course we could chalk up Rey's victory to the fact that Kylo was shot by a bowcaster in the stomach and well we saw what it did to storm troopers lol, flung them around like little rag dolls, plus he was wounded in the shoulder by Finn, and a jedi or sith can sustain themselves through otherwise fatal injuries but it requires immense concentration like what Kylo was doing during the fight plus he was tired from fighting Finn and emotionally ****** up from you know doing what he did on the bridge. But even so Rey still shouldn't have been able to beat him now it is true that only a force user can unlock and harness the full potential of a lightsaber but even with that, the fact that she had no training at all which means she should have lost against someone trained in lightsaber combat. Though Rey did look like she had been taught in the use of staff weapons or self taught herself so there is that but still even so, she still should have lost, it was rushed plain and simple.

    Just ridiculous

  • In THIS instance, you are absolutely right, no doubt about it. Even though it seems obvious that there is some "family lineage" going on here, there's no way Rey could "Jedi up" that fast.

    But, how many times have we seen a dude do absolutely ridiculously impossible things with ease in movies? Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible, for example. 99% chance that any one of those "action scenes" would have killed him in real life, yet he has survived dozens of them. We know that's crap, but it's still entertaining, so we suspend our disbelief.

    Yes, it's unfortunate that it's come to Star Wars (also unfortunate that women played so few roles in the original trilogy, which put pressure on them to "girl up" this trilogy). I like Rey's character, but the stupidly-rushed Jedi development just makes it that much more unrealistic. It would have been terrific to see her struggle and make mistakes and grow, as we saw Luke and Obi-Wan do - and evan Han for that matter.

    But I also get that JJ wasn't trying to do the "origin story" all over again - we already know that story, so he's trying to get on with the REST of the story, and so he's asking us to bear with him with the expedited Jedi stuff for Rey. Okay, fine, whatever.

    Hopefully, some day in my lifetime, we can have women heros who are organically heros instead of nearly having "super-powers". It's why I loved Ripley in the Alien franchise or Sarah Connor in Terminator - they started out ordinary, and rose to the occasion, and kept rising organically. They were strong, powerful, smart women who were REAL in ways that Rey is not.

    Life is imperfect, though.

    • Mission Impossible is explained by all those people being specially trained operatives... not scavengers on desert worlds.

    • Except they aren't Navy SEALs or anything - they're supposed to be spys, or at least, "wet-work" operators for a spy agency. No SEAL or Force Recon operator has ever done in his entire career 1/10th of what Cruise does in any of the MI movies. And many still don't survive far more mundane encounters. So, yeah, it's incredibly exaggerated, far past being "specially trained operatives."

    • It's worth noting that Rey
      - clearly is loaded to the gills with force sensitivity
      - had not used a lightsabre but seemed to have an extensive melee weapon background, which might be worth more than the odd lightsabre lesson in the jedi temple
      - is primarily being judged on a come from behind force fuelled victory over someone who was nursing a blaster shot to the side.

  • It would be too much for ANY character.
    It's stupid.

  • This is just my guess, bit I think Rey is a Skywalker, remember hpw fast Luke went from farmboy to hero of the rebellion? Luke abandoned "everything" when he was betrayed...

  • Of course she is a ridiculous character. No shit. That's why the movie was so bland.

  • Damn good points bro. I mean Kylo Ren may not have finished his training with Luke and he was injured when Rey fought him, but still he should have been able to beat her. And how is she so good at being a pilot when it seemed she was a scavenger all this time? The Millennium Falcon is still very advanced for its time I would imagine. Not only that but it she was able to defeat trained tie fighter pilots with just the help of a guy who took care of sanitation for the First Order.

    Her force powers I can kinda understand. It was her sheer will that allowed her to keep Kylo Ren out of her head and notice her force abilities. Still she shouldn't know how to control a storm trooper's mind from across the room that easily without some training. Maybe you could say her force powers are strong, but if that's the case why didn't she notice them sooner?

    There's definitely a noticeable power gap between the prequels and this new movie.

    Now is it the cause of feminism that made them do this with this Rey character? I can't say that. I don't know. That's a logical theory though.

  • The franchise is full of plotholes alone, no relation to feminism at all.

  • I don't think it has nothing to do with feminism, you're being paranoid. Some characters have the Force stronger than others.

    I mean, no one bats an eye when kid Anakin Skywalker beats the crap out of several aliens on the pod race. Hell, kid Anakin Skywalker fought in a starship fight on Episode 1.

    Luke Skywalker also fights, without previous training, in the destruction of the Death Star and completes the mission himself, no one bats an eye there. Also, Luke trains roughly days with Yoda and everything Yoda teaches him is to control his urges and his anger while doing Yoga like positions and moving objects, and running through the forest. Yoda also tells look that his real test is to face Darth Vader, after that confrontation is where Luke comes back in Return of The Jedi as a Jedi.

    People often forget that Chewbacca shoots the living hell out of Kylo Ren too and during the fight Kylo Ren is bleeding to death (that's why he hits himself to pump himself up for the fight). He fights Finn, he wins to Finn and then he goes to fight Rey. At that time Rey feels confident on the Force true, but Kylo was already beat up and tired.

    Let's also take in account that these stories revolve around the Skywalker family. Rey, as far as we know, could be associated with Snoke somehow or could be an Skywalker herself. But just as Luke and Anakin, the Force is strong with her.

    • anakin had podrace experience and even wrecked one pod... and was a lousy pilot.

      luke acted like a scared beginner in the x-wing, but did have flying experience in small, high speed crafts.

    • Scared beginner? lol

      Yet you didn't explained Luke's training, which wasn't much other than "control your anger and focus". Lukes real training was facing Darth Vader, Rey's training was facing Kylo Ren. What's your argument there?

      Also, you didn't addressed the fact that Kylo Ren was more than beat up when he faced Rey, and he was already bleeding to death. But if you chose to discredit all of the points I'm making by two small paragraphs then okay lol

      I also forgot to mention, in The Empire Strikes Back even before Luke was mentally trained by Yoda, Luke was able to retreat his lightsaber from the ice and taught himself to do it using the Force. Just as Rey did so in the prison escape.

  • Yeah. I think it's funny how all these White Nationalists/White Supremacists were bitching and moaning about how this Star War: The Force Awakens movie was "Anti-White" and has a "White Genocide propaganda" when the movie only has 1 black main cast member and they made his character, Finn/FN-2187, a little weak and unskilled with no Force with him.


    This movie is more pro-feminist than "anti-white", as you said.

    • I mean if if Rey was actually in anyway, blood-related to Luke Skywalker like many people have been rumoring it to be in here (GAG), then I'd have let it pass. by the way, regarding my "Anti-White" topic, this movie has absolutely NOTHING to with "White Genocide" like these retarded bigots make them out to be. It's pretty obvious that these morons have pulled these BS out of their asses.

    • actually, george lucas himself said he 'sold star wars to white slavers'

  • 1. Kylo was injured.

    2. He was emotional breaking because he was having trouble being strong with the dark side. Also, he felt beaten because he couldn't break Rey with mind tricks. He thought he was stronger than he was, and realizing how weak he was frustrated him. He was stronger in the force and better trained than Rey, but she was fighting because she felt something great in the force; he was feeling abandoned in the force.

    3. He just fought Finn, so he would be physically drained some.

    Also, I know this is supposed to be the same universe as the last 6, but you have to remember Disney is in charge now, not Lucas. Truthfully I never felt Anakin or Luke ever being that strong in the force or great fighters. It just never really came through in the movies. I know it was mentioned a lot, but through the action it never really showed. So maybe Disney wants to show a light side of the force character that is actually powerful.

    Maybe there are stronger people in the force than the Skywalkers. Just because they were the chosen ones before doesn't mean they are the greatest of great. Time passes and different qualities are revealed. Disney is trying to be epic, so they need more than one family to show it. Or maybe she is a Skywalker or a Kenobi.

    None of the movies had very good character development to me, including The Force Awakens (I also thinks it's a terrible title). And the Jedi seem more like cowards than saviors. They always hide when things don't go their way. Yoda did it, Obi Wan did it, and now Luke did it. The heroes shouldn't have to go looking for their saviors in the greatest of hiding spots

    Just because a woman is powerful, doesn't mean there is an agenda. This kind of stuff happens for male characters all the time. If Rey was male and did what she did, it would just be bad writing or bad character development. She is female, so that's all it is, bad writing and bad character development. Forget about the gender of the characters and focus on the actual characters. Kylo's and Finn's character development wasn't very good as well

    Does Finn turning good make it an agenda to show black people aren't bad? He risked his life to save Rey... Agenda Agenda Agenda

    What bothered me was how the men always wanted to make sure Rey was ok and thought she couldn't take care of herself, etc. And she kind of blew it off like it was irrelevant. Which it was irrelevant, but for some reason the filmmakers wanted to show it. But it didn't need to be in there

    • It's also more surprising how the First Order (or whatever it was called) gained power so quickly. Weren't they weakened in the original trilogy. Why do the good guys always stop fighting and let the bad guys gain so much power.

      And the characters thinking Jedi are a myth or whatever they said in the movie. It hasn't been that long. Why would the great protectors of the galaxy be forgotten so easily.

      Also, the Jedi take kids from their families when they are young just like the Stormtroopers. Jedi aren't allowed to have families. I'm assuming Stormtroopers aren't either, but I don't know. Why are the Jedi the good guys, I don't get it.

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    • Yeah action movies seem to gloss over promising plots. They show something that would be an interesting concept, then they throw it away forgetting the reason they showed it.

      I think they took the wrong route with this new trilogy. Rey could still be the main lead and hero, but I think Episode 7 should have focused more on the rise of the First Order and Finn switching sides. Kylo and Rey could still have big roles, but Finn's side switch didn't make sense to me. I think it should have been the First Order's first big attack, not them already a super power everyone fears.

      Then Episode 8 I would have mostly focused on Kylo with us learning why he turned to the dark side, but in the end he switched back to the light. Then by episode 9, it would be Rey's turn to defeat Snoke. Basically it would be the slow build of her controlling the force that you mentioned. She could still be presented as overly powerful in earlier episodes, but she becomes more consistent with her power later.

    • I see the 9 movies with these endings. It's been awhile since I watched the first 6, so I may be wrong.

      I - Light wins
      II - Dark wins
      III - Dark wins
      IV - Light wins
      V - Dark wins
      VI - Light wins
      VII - Dark wins
      VIII - Light wins
      IX - Light wins

      Unfortunalty, I see it as Light winning in VII. The focus shouldn't been on finding Luke. Why would the Dark side want to find Luke. He's been hiding not causing them any trouble. To me the rise of the First Order and Finn's betrayal would have been the better story. But what do I know lol.

      Disney accomplished their goal. Breaking records and making me want to watch the next one. I may complain about it a lot, but I really want to watch. I say someone else mention the made Rey the focus and power to get women bigger in the franchise and buy merchandise. Which probably makes the most sense.

      Sorry I write so much lol.

  • She should have stayed in the kitchen! Let men handle their lightdicks, I mean sabers.

  • Wow dude, you really are fucking stupid. Let me start off by saying I HATE feminists with a passion. Now, we still have 2 movies to get through. We have no idea what Rey's past is or who her parents are. For all we know, the next movie will tell us that Luke is her dad (Super strong with the force) And that means Luke trained her as a kid. Then in order to hide her from the new order and Kylo, Luke wipes her memories and puts her on a planet to protect her. Just like Luke was hidden from Vader. And I'm pretty sure its known fact in the movies that Light side always beats dark. And Its pretty clear that Snoke never finished Kylo's training. He got to where he is now based on what he learned from Luke and his blood line giving him better use of the force. That's why Rey beat him and not to mention that Klyo got shot by Chewbacca and got hit a few times by Finn. And let me ask you this. Would you have posted this if Finn was able to beat Kylo? No? then shut the fuck up. Her being a female is irrelevant. She's just a well written and fun character just like everyone else in the film. Not to mention that The prequels don't count for shit when it comes to continuity. You know how many times George Lucas contradicted himself with the prequels? How is Lea supposed to remember what her mom looked like right out of the womb? Why doesn't Obi-Wan remember R2-D2 in a new hope even though he's known him since phantom menace? Why in empire does Obi-Wan say Yoda trained him when it was someone else in the prequels? Again, the prequels don't matter for shit.

  • Her exceptional strength in the Force may yet be explained. And Kylo Ren was in a weakened state when they fought. Having just done what he had done, he was in emotional turmoil and would have been very unfocused. He had also been shot in the abdomen with Chewbacca's bowcaster, previously shown to take down two stormtroopers with the blast from an indirect hit, and to send stormtroopers flying and shatter their armour with direct hits. It was probably taking all he had just to stay on his feet after being wounded with such a weapon.

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