Often in books and movies the bad guys are portrayed as dark (Either hair/clothes/skin), but the good guy are portrayed light. Light clothes, hair (often blond) and white. I thinks it's quite weird they portrays them like that.
In Narnia for instance you knows the witch are the villain even though she's white and blonde. In the Golden compass you also gets the point very fast. It's easy to understand that the witches there are good even though some of them are dark. Same thing applies to the Disney movies Aladdin, Mulan and The princess and the frog. It's easy to know who's good and bad even for children without using the dark vs light stereotype. Therefor using the stereotypes where dark is bad and light is good doesn't make sense for me. In this movie they kind of follow this stereotype, but only when it comes to witches. If you're a human or a villager this doesn't seem to apply. You can just take a look at the witches and know who's good and bad. The villain and the second witch who turns into a villain is dark, but the good witch is light and blonde. In this movie it's easy to know who's the hero and the villain even though both of them are dark. So the stereotype aren't necessary to know who's good and bad.
PS! Please keep this discussion calm and peacefully when answering. You're allowed to be disagree.
Because that's been the historical narrative espoused by all of the centres of civilisation which wound up coming out on top, or relatively unscathed. Not just in Europe, where you historically had millennia of existential wars against the Moors, the Arabs and the Ottomans to set the narrative of dark-skinned=villain and light-skinned=hero; in Eastern Asia, too, you have exactly the same narrative. And in India, to justify the caste system, and even in Arabia, to justify their historical dominance of the world's slave trading. In Africa, in Australasia, and among the natives of the Americas, you have the opposite narrative- white has always been the 'bad' color associated with death, evil, misery, plague and suffering in these regions, and black has always been the 'good' color of life, goodness, fertility, health and prosperity there. But they all wound up on the losing side, and even in their own communities, other white=good cultures film and media industries dominate their markets to the extent where their own cultural narratives have in most cases been entirely overwritten through external brainwashing.
Because the people in power were paler-skinned than the people who they historically fought culture-defining wars against, paler-skinned than the people who they deemed to be beneath them, to have fewer rights and to be less 'human' than themselves. With India and Bollywood, it goes all the way back to the arrival of the Indo-Aryans over 10,000 years ago; the Ramayana is effectively a dramatized, glorified account of the mass genocide of the 'Demon' darker-skinned original Indian people, driving them down into Southern India and eliminating all of their leaders besides the ones who remained on the island of Sri Lanka. The Dark Demon Ravana is India's most iconic villain; and the White Prince Rama is India's most iconic hero. That's why they have the same thing in India. The caste ladder of Hinduism was introduced specifically to entrench the societal narrative of paler-skinned=better, and darker-skinned=worse.
Because darkness conceals evil and danger while light offers you clarity and safety. Do you feel safer in the middle of the day or in the middle of the night?
This transfers over to characterization. Naturally, obvious stylistic choices such as making a SNOW queen white or deliberately trying to mislead the audience by making the bad witch light and the good witch bright are exempt from this rule.
If you paid any attention, the wardrobe of the snow queen goes progressively darker the more they get into the story and the further they reveal her malice. From pure white furs to a grey dress and racoon furs (which now include the heads) all the way to a ragged grey leather outfit at the end.
I noticed that in foreign movies. I came to two conclusions.
If the villains are dark, different race than the heroes, then it is because of the stereotype.
Dark people in those countries are believed to be stronger, so they want to portray the hero as really strong by defeating bunch of other stronger guys.
Second, if the dark villains are of same race, but darker than the hero, then it is merely because light skin is praised. They want the hero to look better.
But recently, I have noticed this is changing. One of the movies I watched, the villain was better looking, strong, just as classy as the hero.
When of course, the Huns who invaded China were historically cited by contemporary Chinese scholars as having been White Caucasians with predominantly red hair and green eyes. Buy hey, that's Disney for ya. Imagine if they'd actually stayed true to depicting the Huns as they actually looked instead of making them look like undead vampires (I mean, seriously? Glowing orange irises, black eyes, and proper claws instead of fingernails? Might as well have just called the Huns' leader 'Dracula'). So really, instead of Mulan fighting off an invasion force led by this guy: vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/.../latest We SHOULD'VE seen her fighting off an invasion force led by this guy instead: s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...c5047b8814.jpg
Now tell me, would that have been such a bad thing?
@SinghSong Well the earliest Huns came from eastern Europe while the later Huns came from Asia, and once they reach Asia from Europe they no doubt bred with native Asian women which over time would have made them look more like what Disney portrayed them as not like red haired highlanders.
And considering that their time in Europe was extremely short lived it's not outside the realm of possibility that that red hair would have been bred out of them within a few generations of being with Asian women with dark brown to black hair as well as giving them more Asian features.
Also there are actual paintings and drawling of what the huns looked like and they look more Asian then they do what you showed at the bottom.
@Phoenix98 Actually, even Genghis Khan was cited as being red-haired and green-eyed. It was far more common and prevalent in historical Central Asia than you'd think; and it was only later on, when they took over China and later still when the Turkic peoples expanded north-eastwards into the region, that more 'Eastern' features become more prevalent.
Well in any case I don't really think it's that big of a deal, I mean technically they aren't wrong about how they looked in the movie they just got the time period wrong.
@SinghSong O and also they probably made the Huns look how the Chinese perceived in the way that they saw them as evil, ruthless and brutal I mean the Chinese were pretty scared of them.
Makes sense to make them look how they were perceived in the minds of a lot of people at the time.
@Phoenix98 But giving the guy actual cat's claws instead of fingernails though? And giving him the eyes that should've gone to the dragon instead? And giving them all the skin tone of a horde of undead zombies? Couldn't they have been just a little bit more nuanced and subtle? Especially given that the Huns, aka the Xiongnu Empire (centred on Mongolia from 209BC to 215AD- no coincidence that Genghis Khan and his lot shared the same racial features, since they were the Huns' direct descendants) were relative nobodies in the eyes of the Chinese, who swiftly submitted to become tributaries of Han China and came to rely almost totally on Han assistance until their collapse. Really, they weren't 'big-bads' at all, in the eyes of anyone besides the Europeans.
@SinghSong I wish for a little subtly as well for these things. I find it most interesting when the bad guys look just like the good guys, then it's not an us vs them, it's all around less obvious. His voice was perfect though!
@SinghSong Well I mean it is a cartoon for children it's not about being historically accurate it's about painting a vivid story with clear distinctions between good and evil.
I mean can you really name one historically accurate Disney film?
People associate darkness with evil and light with pure.
This idea isn't limited to Disney or simple fairy tales.
I wanted to ask a question about Novelas which are Spanish dramas, like the dark feature actors are the "evil"/antagonists, they're depicted as the poor, the help, and even like "dirty/bad/dopey" caricatures. While the actors with "light" features tend to be the "good"/hero/protagonists. It's so cliche but it's something you get used to
You know, lots of people think that it shouldn't be a "big deal" to never see someone like yourself portrayed as anything other than the maid, the ugly poor woman, etc. But I remember growing and wishing I had more of my mom's skin color (she's kinda pale btw). And I couldn't really *choose* any princesses to be expect Pocahontas, Esmeralda, or vaguely Mulan. One time, when I was younger maybe in kinder, I jokingly said I wanted to be Cinderella and a little boy told me that I couldn't because I was too dark and as usual, the only options for me were Pocahontas, Esmeralda, or Mulan.
People have are afraid of the dark and the things that hide in it. When we can't see everything clearly we tend to feel vulnerable and in danger. We, as people, tend to apply that to everything including skin tone for media (books, movies, plays, ect) I don't know why but it happens i guess
I assume you are not talking about race here, and more about the idea of a white heaven and an evil black hell and the darkeness. Well the colours are their to represent contrast between the two parties. The colours are pretty arbrituary, and it only depends on what we decide is light and darkness, good and evil. It's in the bible isn't it? Why well in the Olden days the night was seen as terrifying without Any lights around, so it made sense for demons and stuff to appear. the whole of idea of black and white people, well that came later with post colonialism created the idea of race for the same reason, contrast. Are black peoeple actually black? No. Are white people actually white? No. The colours are arbrituary and the meanings are arbitrary.
I'm talking about both clothing, hair colors and race. In movies the good guys are often portrayed in light clothing, but the bad guys are portrayed in dark clothes. But in addition to clothing, their hair color and race is also affected.
But there are movies that's opposite of the stereotype. In Narnia for instance the Snow queen who's the villain are both white, blonde and wears white clothes. But the witch in the Golden compass are dark; dark hair and clothes. She's the good guy. In Aladdin both the villain and the hero have Arabic appearance. But in the lion king the good guys are light lions, but the evil ones are dark lions.
Well in prince of Persia. ( I assume you are talking about the video games) it takes place in Persia, so it makes there are brown people. But he wore mostly light colours and the vizear wore dark cloaks.
It's not true for the most part. It's easier to find people with darker features than with lighter ones. Most villains tend to be White people, but even then, there's more Whites with dark features than light. Only in older type of stories, fables and all that stuff, is where you usually see this, simply because of the dark/light thing. Darkness is evil, light is good and pure, so that same idea is translated into the characters.
The movie I've watched both the villain and the hero are Caucasian; European looking. But there's still differences. A South-European person usually have dark hair, eyes and skin, but Scandinavians are typically lighter. So it doesn't need to be European VS African VS Asian to be unfair.
I know what you meant, but still, like I said, the darkness vs light is a very typical thing in stories. Back in the day when movies didn't exist and stories were all either written or told orally, the easiest way to convey the idea of good and evil, is with the use of darkness and light. So describing a character with dark eyes, black hair, and all that gives the idea that they're the villains, because you've used words like "dark" to describe that individual, and just hearing the word "dark" makes you think of evil. Same thing with light features, but with the opposite effect: you think of good.
I don't see a problem with it though, because I know the intent they have. They're not saying people with dark features are evil. I have dark features, I'm from Southern Europe, and I don't find myself offended by this, or even bothered. Matter of fact, I've never even really thought about it till now.
It's a common motif in literature. This could come from our natural fears of humans. Darkness is a place of fear to this day for many children (and adults but less so).
Now as for the whole Disney thing, I don't think they're being racist at least not these days. But somebody could present an argument that would convince me I'm sure.
It's the contrast of good and bad being portrayed through light vs dark. Like how the night is ominous and that's when the demons come out and the day is a tranquil skip through a meadow of daisies where nothing can harm you. It's also easier to make things seem scarier in a darker environment which is why you don't often see horror scenes in the daylight - speaking of which, I can't say I've ever seen one?
It's because demons or evil are not very well disposed towards light. They don't really like light so usually the won't show up in the mornings. But good is connected with days or light. That's why maybe.
Perhaps, even going back to ancient times, it is a way to subliminally place the wealthy ruling class (who would be clean, shiny and bejeweled, have pale skin from not working in the sun, etc) above the poor/working/peasant class (who would be dirty, tanned, dressed in drab dark clothes, etc).
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It's a convention from the old black and white cowboy films so. that the audience could keep track of the hero in distance shots. Hero wore a white hat, villain black. White being a color of purity in the west, black evil and mourning. As an interesting side note in the Japanese Samurai films the bad guy wore white as white is a color of mourning in Japan.
if the villain is African American then yah they're associating his skin with the evil nature of the antagonist, but if the villain is Caucasian and maybe has black hair and wears a big black cloak, that would be understandable
This is a hold over from spagetti westerns and disney films where the audience was treated like morons and it was decided that they needed to be spoonfed the formula of who is the good-guy and who is the bad-guy.
It stems from very childish, black and white thinking and the inability to handle nuance.
In Africa, the most likely origin of the human species, we lived along with many predators. And these predators loved to hunt at night. We could usually escape them in the daylight, but with our senses, we were especially vulnerable during the nighttime, thus shadow was given an edge of fear, thus humans are afraid of the dark, thus dark is the bad guy. But that doesn't explain the variables like Batman
But in virtually African cultures, white has historically been the color associated with evil witchcraft (juju), death, plague, war and destruction. Not black. So it's got nothing to do with that.
@SinghSong This isn't only culture. Biologically, humans are hardwired to be wary of the dark. It's where the most threats can hide, where we are most unsure. Our natural predators hunted at night. In Egypt and Europe, red was the color of evil. I believe yellow was the color for both north and south America, and Asia I have no clue. But the point is, humans are afraid of the dark, whether we are wary of what is inside or we have an irrational fear.
If that were true, why is it that we sleep at night? Shouldn't we be too afraid to? Humans are hardwired to be active hunters, and top predators. We specialize in diurnal hunting, true, but we aren't hardwired to be prey animals, to fear the things which go bump in the dark.
@SinghSong We sleep at night in homes because we need sleep. We sleep even if we are afraid of something, we can't make an active choice to just NOT sleep, that's not how life works, dude.
Humans aren't hardwired for that at all. We created guns, sure, but on the 1-5 rating list of producers to top consumers, we are actually in the lower half, meaning human beings are more herbivore-omnivore than carnivore-omnivore. We ARE hardwired for that, instinctively, but our knowledge that really in developed countries, all we have to fear are humans in the dark, makes us less afraid. But humans are still dangerous in the dark. Not to mention, tigers eat humans all the time in India in the dark.
Biologically, we are not top predators, we are just top killers. Just because we have technology doesn't mean we aren't afraid of the dark, and for good reason
Because light colours are more calming and bright colours feels different, imagine being locked up in a dark room and being locked up in one that is white which you feel better in?
Cause darkness is usually associated with dirty, filthiness, and evil.. While light/white is associated with cleanliness, good, hope, life.. Which is understandable in a way.. But yeah I see yo point..
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I think it's because light color are saw as pure and dark one are saw as dirty / something who have something to hide or stuff like that. The heaven is in light color and hell in dark one. Can be for that too.
I think its because good people are transparent which is associated with light colours while bad people are secretive which is associated with dark colours.
Exactly. So the darkness always overcomes the light, because the light always ends up running out of energy, scattering and dissipating into nothing. Which is also a good metaphor for how evil always wins in the end, and good always loses.
RESPONSE TO UPDATE: Black is a color and it refers to much more than the Negroid race. White is a color and it refers to much more than the Caucasoid race. Red is a color and it refers to much more than the Mongoloid race. If people think that these words are inherently racist and, therefore, they are offended, then the PC crowd will expect us to change the following names and expressions:
1. The White House 2. white Christmas 3. white light 4. black as coal 5. in the black 6. in the red 7. whitey tighties 8. whitewash 9. blackmail 10. blood red etc.
What are you talking about? That term doesn't even exist, other than as a reference to communism- it isn't the slightest bit racial. Sorry, but you're coming across as very ignorant right now...
@SinghSong I'm sorry that you don't know how to read in context but I will not make that my problem. I have encountered your liberalism and arrogant self-righteousness previously, and I have become bored with it.
White = good, black = evil. It's been that way since before writing was invented and stories were told orally (colors are easier to mentally picture than an abstraction like good or evil).
I understands colors are easier to imagine. But I still thinks it's quite unfair dark people in movies are often evil, but the good guy often is portrayed white/light and often blond. 2.bp.blogspot.com/.../Evanora+Glinda.jpg
Eh I just use it to my advantage. I usually dress in all-black since I'm considered evil anyway. Go figure, most of my friends that know how evil I am (and still don't care unlike most judgmental assholes, since they are almost just as evil) think I look better in black anyway (more so than white, being a redhead and all).
I doesn't want to be the SJW who screams "racist", but I thinks it's silly to judge the book by it's cover. You can't see if a person is good or evil based on looks.
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