Accidentally broke a gym's property. HELP?

[Anonymous]

I was at Planet Fitness yesterday, and near all the dumb bells is a giant mirror up front. I was holding two 30 pound dumb bells and tripped over the bench I was using(I got up after my set, and proceeded to sit down after stretching a bit, THEN tripped) and went face first into the mirror BUT the dumb bells in my hand are what totally smashed and cracked the mirror.

The manager was pissed but was OK that accidents happen, he was mainly pissed that the store's inspection was the next day. Also I got a minor finger cut, and the manager said to me that the lines on the ground between the wall with the mirror and floor are there for a reason.

The next day I called them to apologize again and the manager was calm, but he's making me pay for both mirrors. about 900$!

what do I do? should I pay? is this even worth taking to court for?

also the mirrors are not covered by insurance sadly.

Pay up

Don't pay up/ask for discount

Get a lawyer

Other (post what)

[DanAG]

I'd carefully read the agreement you signed when you joined. There might be something in there about whether you are responsible for damage to their equipment, and under what circumstances.

I really have no idea what the laws are about this kind of thing. My *guess* is that you are not liable unless you did something intentional or blatantly violated rules. In your case I think it falls into the "shit happens" category and you would not be responsible. Again, that's a total guess.

You can always talk to a lawyer, probably with a free consultation. Also you can talk to law students if there is a law school near you. They might have a free public service where the students can get some experience and learn (with supervision). And of course there are online resources much better than GaG.

You can also just ignore it. Let him sue you. Keep in mind that if it goes to small claims court, the loser pays the lawyer and expense fees for the winner (small claims might not allow lawyers in your jurisdiction).

What I would NOT do is just hand the money over.

Take notes and write down in detail (with dates) any correspondence you have with the manager. If you end up in small claims, you want your memory to be fresh and clear without any hesitation or being wishy washy. Court is about proof. Being wishy washy and making ambiguous statements like "I think he said something like xxxx" don't cut it in court. You want to openly look at your notes then say "On June 14th he told me XXX. To which I replied YYYY." Let the manager be the wishy washy person, not you. Preparation is the key.

Very likely it will never come to that. I suspect the laws will be clear on this once you talk to a lawyer.

[Asker]

So long story short, what is the worst case scenario? We go to court, I lose, do I just pay the mirror for 900$? that's it? thank you

[DanAG]

Worst case is you lose, have to pay the $900 plus anything else they decide to tack on, as the loser you have to pay court costs, and if they use a lawyer you have to pay their lawyer fee. It might show on your credit report which can have several negative affects.

Best case is they drop this nonsense about you paying, and you can continue going to the gym with no ill feeling between you and the manager.

I don't think the subject of liability should have ever come up. It's just bad business.

[DanAG]

You need to talk to a lawyer. Right now it's all speculation and you need facts before you decide what to do. I think you aren't liable and there's nothing they can do about it. But I don't know that for a fact.

[Asker]

If they take me to small claims, don't they have to pay more then 900 for all the fees and stuff? excluding a lawyer

[Asker]

I talked to a good lawyer just now, he doesn't specialize in this field tho.

he says to not pay them, and they may not take me to small claims. if they do he says I can talk to a mediator apparently and get it settled for possibly less too.

any opinions?

[Asker]

according to a poster above... he did a quick google and found out I AM responsible due to contract and signing up and bla bla... but still it was an accident. and as everyone else says, its ridiculous I'd have to pay due to no insurance on it?

so what do I do?

What happens if he ends up coming after me? Do I end up paying more? assuming I don't fight back and admit to it.

[DanAG]

If it goes to court and you lose, they YOU pay the court fees and any lawyer costs. The court fees probably won't be all that much. And like I said lawyers might not even be allowed in small claims court. That's assuming that's the right court since it may be above the limit for small claims in your jurisdiction.

I'd still talk to a lawyer who knows about this particular thing. The other guy may have just been giving a neutral non-committal answer.

[DanAG]

Just because the Planet Fitness rules state that you are responsible for damages doesn't mean that clause is enforceable. It's not unusual to have stuff like that but they aren't enforceable. For one thing it's probably the same contract for all their locations, when the laws from one state to another can be very different.

Again, you need to find out for sure from a lawyer in your jurisdiction.

[DanAG]

Another thing I'm curious about. Did they already fix it? I'm curious how they came up with that $900 number. Unless he has a solid estimate, then he may just be pulling a number off the top of his head. That's a lot of money. Is it one of those big mirrors that cover the entire wall or something?

Another thing you can do if they sue you is look into a counter suit. Not likely to win, but you can look into it. Check into safety regulations and make sure they meet them.

[DanAG]

For example in houses it's illegal to have windows or glass doors near the bottom of stairs. You don't want someone falling down the stairs and tumbling through the glass. So it must either be a minimum distance, or be made of the expensive tempered safety glass.

I don't know man, you might end up having to pay it. But I wouldn't volunteer unless you find out for sure if they can win in a suit. They may be bluffing.

What do you mean by paying for "both" mirror? You broke two?

[Asker]

2 small ones that were close together making them appear bigger.

one lawyer I talked to said f*ck em and ignore PF and let them sue me and I talk to a mediator about paying? does that involve court fees? is a mediator always guarenteed?

one friend told me they might not even sue me... how much does it take to sue someone anyway? lol

[DanAG]

A mediator gets the two of you together and tries to reach a voluntary compromise between you.

An arbitrator looks at it from the legal side and reaches a binding decision. It's outside the formal court but binding. It saves time and decreases the load on the court.

The small claims court fees and maximum amount that can be sued for in small claims varies a lot by jurisdiction. So you need to check your local court. It shouldn't be too hard to find.

[DanAG]

That's another thing to check in your membership agreement. It might actually require a mediator or arbitration. Look for a section about dispute resolution. It may or may nor have one.

If they sue you, I'm almost (but not entirely) certain that first they will need to present (probably mail) you a formal demand for payment. If you have not received a formal demand I think you're OK for now. I don't think some guy verbally asking you for money will go far.

[DanAG]

I don't think a manager at a place like that carries much weight.

You may also check locally at glass companies and see if that $900 seems reasonable. That's a lot of money for a couple of small mirrors.

If you enjoy that sort of thing, you might also be able to dig around a local law library. Sometimes they are open to the public, sometimes they aren't. It will probably be in or near the courthouse. You'll be lost in there, but it's a good experience.

[DanAG]

I can tell this is bothering you. Just try to relax and not worry about it too much. Wait it out and see what happens. I think you'll get plenty of warning if they are going to act. You should have a chance to resolve it before going to court.

Are you still going there? Has the manager said anything else to you?

Here's a couple of random links tat popped up in a search.

link

link

[Asker]

I still go there, today I actually walked right by the manager and he said nothing.

So again, it's in the contract that I have to pay for any damages, but again it was a total accident... so I'm screwed aren't i?

and again if I verbally tell them no, then I get a formal mail stating I must pay? What if they suddenly jack up the price? can they do that? how do I prevent that? reason I'm worried about that is because PF is paying for HALF of it, which is 900. they expect me to do the other half

[DanAG]

"it's in the contract that I have to pay for any damages, but again it was a total accident... so I'm screwed aren't i?"

Not necessarily. Just because it's in the contract doesn't mean it's enforceable. It's common for things in contract to not be enforceable, or even illegal. They use one contract, but every state will have different laws. State law can modify the contract and invalidate or change parts of it.

Even if there is a clause saying you are liable for damaged equipment, it wouldn't

[DanAG]

surprise me if you are liable ONLY if you were negligent in some way.

For example if you have a dumbbell in your hand, then trip and accidentally fall against the mirror. Compared to goofing off and joking with a friend while you are throwing your arms around, then a dumbbell flies over and hits the mirror. Those are not the same thing. In the first case you were using reasonable precautions, the same as most people. In the second case you were not, therefore bear more responsibility.

[DanAG]

"and again if I verbally tell them no, then I get a formal mail stating I must pay?"

I think they'll need to send a formal demand for payment whether you tell them no or not. Some manager holding his hand out asking for money doesn't mean shit.

"What if they suddenly jack up the price?"

You can only be liable for real damages. Meaning their actual cost, which they'll have to prove. You can't sue for damages unless you show proof of those damages including the amount.

[DanAG]

If the amount seems unreasonable, and you can get a statement or estimates from other glass companies that show a much lower price, then you are unlikely to have to pay the higher amount. This is why I said before that you should contact glass companies to find out if this $900 seems reasonable. Especially since $900 is only half, right? So $1800 total seems VERY high, but I could be wrong.

[DanAG]

I'm not a lawyer. I'm just guessing on these things. Plus the laws are different everywhere. It might be completely illegal for them to charge you for it. I just have a general idea of how I've seen other things in law work, so I'm basing my answers on the "type" of things that I notice happens in civil cases like this. But bottom line is that I'm totally guessing.

[Asker]

thanks for all your replies. in regards to the price thing, what I meant was:

what if I say no, then they formally mail me for the money, but jack up the price to full price? (from 900 to 1800) since pf is being nice enough to pay half?

also its day 4 and they still haven't contacted me, I'm scared to ask them for a status update on what's going on, I rather say nothing and hope they say nothing LOL

[WhiteSteve]

Oh man, I feel terrible having to break this news, but you ARE on the hook. I was about to say it sounded unlikely but I found the Planet Fitness Rules and Regulations file, and there's a clause stating that you have to "pay for all damages Caused by you, your Dependants, or your guests while in the club."

Thats rough, bro. I guess you could make him come after you and see if he just says fuck it or not.

[Asker]

Please provide a link, I googled everywhere for that paper you sign when you initially start up.

[Asker]

What happens if he ends up coming after me? Do I end up paying more? assuming I don't fight back and admit to it.

[WhiteSteve]

Google "planet fitness rules" and the first link should be "download rules and regulations - Planet Fitness"

Immediately downloads a PDF upon clicking, so I wasn't sure how to link it.

As for the legal stuff, I don't really know the ins and outs of that. I think if you say "no" he can choose to pursue it or just not bother and eat the cost, whatever is cheaper. If he tries to go to court I think you could probably just pay and make it go away. Don't quote me on that, I'm talking out my as

[MikkiMouse]

I think you should not pay it until you see a lawyer... or at least find out from a law firm if they can do that. What do you mean both mirrors? And might I say it sounds like they are trying to pull a fast one on you because the first thing I noticed was that he only said you had to pay for it when you called back. He did not say that initially. So what if you hadn't called? Do not pay it my friend. Consult a lawyer first.

[Jade4]

Are you in America? Were you doing anything wrong? (Be honest) is it clearly an accident on camera? Is the gym a franchise/chain? Why exactly did you trip ? Ie Was dizziness etc a factor or is the equipment adequately spaced out

[Asker]

Yes. yes an accident and on camera. yes its a chain all over the country, corporate said they could do nothing. I tripped cause.. I tripped? lol. and no about the dizzyness

[Jade4]

Ok I'd be inclined to make an anonymous inquiry to head office and see if mirrors are insuredI don't believe their mirrors weren't insured for a second. I'd guess either they don't want to pay the insurance excess, or their insurance was declined because you were doing something wrong. Also check the terms of your membership. It may say that you're required to pay for damages due to failing to obey the rules. If its in your policy I'd pay. If they're lying about why I'd get the real reason first

[Asker]

check below... I found out it is indeed policy. but it was a total accident and its on camera that it was. do I have any chance or not?

[Jade4]

Well from your description you were somewhere you shouldn't have been? If that's what you did wrong...what if the accident had happened where you should have been? Would the mirror still have broken? If its in your policy that your liable if you're KNOwINGLY not accidentally breaking a rule, it's shaky ground. I think to fight it you'd need to answer the question above. Was the rule break a factor. If so I'd see if they'll claim insurance and just charge you the excess. It would be different ...

[Jade4]

If you did nothing wrong and it was a total accident, totally their responsibility. I mean you could find out the USA law. That's what would happen here though, if the wrongdoing was intentional and vital to the damage happening? I'd consider that my fault

[whattothink]

Seems like a scam. How in the world are mirrors not covered by insurance?

[Asker]

they said it was only equipment sadly.

[whattothink]

I truly do not believe this. Every place has property insurance. You can't operate a business without it. Well you could,but potentially lose everything.

[Asker]

haha I talked to a lawyer, he said the best he could do is get me a discount.

another lawyer said I should not pay and avoid PF all together and see if they press charges

[Asker]

What happens if he ends up coming after me? Do I end up paying more? assuming I don't fight back and admit to it.

[whattothink]

I don't know, but it seems like if it was malicious they could sue, but an accident seems unlikely, that's just the hazard of business. Then again none of us are lawyers.

[jennifer_bloom]

I would feel worse if they did not ask me to lay because than it suggests that I’m being a burden to them.

[front2back]

Well, gyms like planet fitness collect these things called maintenance fees when you first sign up. Those are made to pay for, you guessed it, maintenance. Even if that maintenance is for broken mirrors.

I don't think you should pay, or at least not as much. They can surely pay for less than $1000 of mirrors, considering how much a regular gym pulls every month. The fact that the mirrors, something which shouldn't be openly exposed right next to a bunch of heavy metals things, aren't covered by insurance is ridiculous too me.

It was a compete accident and you apologized instead of running away or making an excuse. If he wants the money out of you, then he can sue. Just get a good lawyer that specializes in accidents and you can probably get off scot free or at least half of what you pay.

Otherwise, don't pay and start going to a new gym.

[Asker]

What happens if he ends up coming after me? Do I end up paying more? assuming I don't fight back and admit to it.

[THE_Godfather]

I strongly disagree with everyone that's telling you to pay up. Accidents happen.

That's part of what happens in gyms. Mirrors break, weights break & so does equipment.

You tripped. It's not like you haphazardly threw the weights on the rack.

He's dead wrong & should be happy that you weren't hurt worse & suing him.

I wouldn't pay.

[Asker]

gonna copy and paste from above.



If they sue me, do I get in trouble/does it go on my permenant record or something? and by trouble I mean something OTHER then a court summoning? do I have to pay for the court summoning too?

I'm 21 and just a college student and have NEVER got in trouble with the law EVER, so I'm ignorant and nervous lol.

[Asker]

what is the worst case scenario? We go to court, I lose, do I just pay the mirror for 900$? that's it? thank you

Report

[THE_Godfather]

I guess they could bill your Credit Card. I think he's just trying to see if he can get the money out of you.

I don't think it's worth their time, money & effort to sue you. That will cost more then the mirrors.

I would go to yahoo answers & ask your question under "law"

I've worked in a gym & know a guy that owns one. He would never go after a member like this. He would just shrug his shoulders & order out new.

Remember you're probably dealing with a young manager that's trying to look good.

[kambo_trick3y]

I doubt you'll win in court. They'll likely have cameras and definitely witnesses, the gym also doesn't compensate you for your injuries, they aren't your employers.

Every angle of this isn't in your favor. You're going to have to pay up.

[Anonymous]

That sounds really clumsy.

Stop going to that gym, you need a new gym.

If they want the money let them sue you.

Businesses should have insurance for situations such as this.

[Opinion Owner]

A Lawyer is going to cost way more that $1,000.00

[Asker]

If they sue me, do I get in trouble/does it go on my permenant record or something? and by trouble I mean something OTHER then a court summoning? do I have to pay for the court summoning too?

i'm 21 and just a college student and have NEVER got in trouble with the law EVER, so I'm ignorant and nervous lol.

[Opinion Owner]

It's not a criminal case. It's small claims accidents and it's not something that goes on your record exactly but the documents are publically available. If a person has a car accident but doesn't have insurance it's their own fault for not having insurance. This could possibly also be said about a business that has risky equipment.

[Opinion Owner]

I don't think a court summons costs money. But you must go if they do. You can try to fight it if you want.

[Opinion Owner]

The business will probably try to harass you. Sorry this happened to you. It is just a learning experience is all. It's not bad like drunk driving or theft or anything like that. It's not vandalism because it was an accident. Don't agree to pay them right away. Do NOT call them any more. Your apologies don't mean anything they are after $$$$$$ it's a business.

[Opinion Owner]

I'm in agreement with DanAG when he says read the contract you signed.

[Opinion Owner]

If you have to pay the money then you need to get a part time job while you are going to school that your parents are probably paying for. Shrug. Life costs money. We all have things we have to pay off.

[Opinion Owner]

You can also play the tough guy role, if the gym happens to call you, tell them you had complications from the cut on your hand and that you are going to sue them for your medical expenses etc.

[DanAG]

About the court summons. If you don't show up I don't *think* it's contempt of court like criminal court. But I *think* the judgment will automatically be against you if you don't show.

Also, it's *possible* that the lawsuit could show on your credit report, even if you win. That's something to check into.

When talking to the manger, don't agree to anything. Don't compromise. Don't admit fault. Those things could potentially be used against you.

[Asker]

What happens if he ends up coming after me? Do I end up paying more? assuming I don't fight back and admit to it.

[MrOracle]

If you don't pay, it will go on your credit report as a default, and that will be a huge black mark on your credit for at least 7 years.

Here's the reality: you broke the mirrors, and not due to anything PF did wrong, but because YOU tripped. It's your responsibility. In life, YOU are responsible for things that you do unless YOU have insurance to protect you. That's the normal and correct way of things.

Tell them you will pay if you can go on a payment plan, and make the payments until you've paid it off. That's what adults do.

[Anonymous]

Ask what firm they are insured with; and ask that insurance firm if the gym has insurance for their mirrors

[Jeski03]

Do you have an update on this? What ended up happening?