Why do men no longer think women are worth it?

[SweedyPie]

It is so sad when I see the lack of respect men have toward women and sadder to see that society itself seems to encourage women to lower their standards or to not respect themselves either. I find it deeply disturbing when I hear things like the news that my fifteen year old cousin got a girl pregnant (kept it secret) and she just had the baby, so now he is considering dropping out of school to be able to take care of them. This is just one example of the crazy stuff happening in the world today.

As a society we have gone from one extreme to the next. From extremely conservative and traditional, to barely any sense of values and right/wrong. Men used to be required to court women for months, the holding of hands was almost unheard of and a kiss before marriage? Outrageous!! Nowadays, men expect the women to put all their cards on the table, and I mean all... after a few dates. Like what the hell! I have a million questions pertaining to this, but I'll just list a few

• Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?


• Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?


• Why is chivalry as good as dead?


• What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?


• Why are women so highly dispensible to men?

Long and short of the story is I want to know why do men seem to no longer believe a good woman is worth fighting for or worth going through desert storms and pouring rain for... Why is quitting so easy now? To me the situation seems to be getting worse and worse for women. Personally, knowing that most men are like this just makes me believe a woman who finds a true gentleman in this day and age is devinely blessed. I am more of a traditional thinker... and I wish someone could help me understand this saddening phenomenon.

[Mesonfielde]

""Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?""

Because marriage is a bureaucratic pact, and just because you're married doesn't mean you can't divorce if all goes to shit. It's just leverage; but if you truly trusted your partner you wouldn't even need a pact to feel like your relationship is validated.

""Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?""

The only thing I can imagine is that virgins are more reluctant to want to have sex with you, and some people (who are, in fact, interested in having sex) see that as a problem.

""Why is chivalry as good as dead?""

Because chivalry is benevolent sexism.

""What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?""

That doesn't make any sense to me, so I'm glad it's gone. That's not how social relations work.

""Why are women so highly dispensible to men?""

For the same reason why men are so highly dispensible to certain women: because they don't want to bother with establishing deep connections. It's really a question of how much you value each other for what purpose and to what extent. Relationships aren't dead though; it's just that casual flings are also an option.

[Mistnigqa808]

#Mesonfielde Strikes again #UpVote LOL

[Anonymous]

Nice take, i honestly though that equality for the sexes would bring more peace and harmony but it seems like as the times go on men and women seems to be fighting like cats and dogs. I've had my fair share of bad experiences with men.

As i have gotten older I've also wondered if i will ever find love in this world :(
I wish i knew the answer to this because it seems so sad the way men and women treat each other. Although i have stood for the old feminism and equality values and principles i am beginning to doubt if it was ever a good move. :(

If you look at the last couple of decades women have pushed for equality which i agree with but something still tells me that men and women need to have a place and role when it comes to family issues. Men and women need each other, its the way nature designed us. I think it is wrong for women to change and not expect men to also change with the times. I know what you are feeling when you write your take and i also consider myself more of a traditional person but such are the times we live in and it seems to be breaking up love and families more than ever.

It hurts to get old and be alone without a companion in life and i even wonder to myself if going on is even worth it anymore :)

[SweedyPie]

Oh honey, life is always worth it. Single has its benefits too! And you never know what could happen so don't give up the fight. Reading this was a great refreshment after reading loads of what seems similar to hate. Thank you for your opinion!

[Opinion Owner]

Thanks, you words bring some comfort to me. *Hugs you

You are right being single does have benefits and i enjoyed the freedom when i was young but now i miss having someone to be with. It hurts me to be alone. Yes i won't give up and will continue to go on.

I watched my parents love all throughout my life and it was spectacular, they had a certain kind of respect for each other but dependent so much on each other for love. They live in each others hearts even to this day and they often tell me stories of how they fell so deeply in love. If only i could know what that feels like, if only.

Thanks for writing a good mytake. I know so much hate written... what has this world lost, *tearing

[SweedyPie]

You are too sweet, you'll find it don't worry. Would you believe something amazing about life is... Usually when you stop looking for love, then love finds you! Maybe you can try to do new things, travel a little, do a course in cooking or baking or anything to keep your mind occupied so then when love finds you you'd be 100% ready. Don't worry girl, everything will be fine *hugs*

[Opinion Owner]

Aww, thank you. You too are kind and sweet. I knew you were a lovely person from the way you wrote.
What you have written about love finding you is so true and i have been told that before... it is amazing that life works that way.
Yes, i agree, i actually love to cook with my mum and its a way of just relaxing for me.

Thank you for your precious words, it has meant much to me. Take care <3 :) *Big hug*

[asiag299]

You'll find your guy. I know you will I found mine at my age so if I can find a loving mature guy at 17 then there are plenty out there for you :) You just have to keeep searching and don't give up hope. Don't become bitter either because bitter people are mean lol :)

[Opinion Owner]

@asiag299 Aww, thank you. When i read your words it put a smile on my face :) Its very sweet of you. I know there are good guys out there. I won't give up hope yet, although its been a tough road. Yes i know, bitter is the last thing i would want to become. You are so lucky to find a guy at that age, i wish you all the happiness. Thank you for making my day :)

[MrOracle]

Simply, you can't have it both ways, and that's exactly what you are asking for.

Chivalry rules and expectations were based around the fact that women were helpless and defenseless without a man. Men were expected to make sacrifices for women because women couldn't protect themselves (other than by finding a man to protect her).

You (presumably) want your freedom, independence, and ability to compete directly with men for jobs and status and such on your own, yet you STILL want men to treat you like a defenseless, helpless jewel. Well, it simply doesn't work that way.

Feminism killed chivalry, because the two cannot co-exist - they are the opposites of each other.

You have gained a lot of advantages and rights because of feminism, but they came at a price - men now see you as an equal (and will compete with you directly), instead of a helpless woman who he is both responsible for (sacrifices for) AND *controls.* Men used to be able to control women because they also were responsible for them and their actions. Women wanted to be responsible for themselves, and get rid of the control, and they did, but, again, that came with a price.

Now, you are learning a few things:

1. Responsibility and authority have to be balanced. If you want a man to have more responsibility for you, he also has to have more authority over you. Ex: if you are a manager in a restaurant, you must have authority equal to your responsibility if you are to do your job effectively.

2. Many women are realizing that they actually PREFER men to be more in control of them, and make a lot more of the decisions for them - and ALSO be more responsible to them and for them - than the current feminist society teaches them to want. (And that's okay - there are people who embrace that.)

3. Everything has a price. You don't get anything for nothing in this life.

Men have it a lot different too. Before, men could expect to marry a virgin woman in her mid-late teens, and have her keep his home, raise his children, and take care of him when he got home from work. Women today (mostly) laugh at this, or get angry. Today, women want to be free to seek what they want, so they are - but that means men are free too, and so now, men are out for what THEY want (casual sex). Feminism is what made that possible.

[Kingfrosty]

Wow... so true 0. o why i won't get married any more its pointless

[hellionthesage]

Well stated, very concise.

[ThatGirLqueen]

"Men were expected to make sacrifices for women because women couldn't protect themselves"

Women didn't need men to protect her. Men MADE women weak so a man can able to protect her. If a little girl is taught to praise a man and be weak, Of course she's gonna be those things (if she doesn't have a mind of her won by the time she grow up)

"ability to compete directly with men"

EVERYONE is competing

Everything else you said is basically right and I will not address it because it isn't sexist

[avng204]

bang on! could not have said it better mate!! Nice.

[asiag299]

You're completely right nice example by the way :)

[BlackDynamite83]

Hit the nail on the head here this should have been a take. Men dont have to settle or lower their standards anymore than women.

[Living-the-ADvenTURe]

It kind of sucks for women who rather have things old fashion and just be a really great wife and mom and feel safe/secure/taken care of by the man... especially since women are made to be embarrassed for admitting that these days. I think the biggest issue with men being in control, is that they would use their power to treat women badly and women had to stand up for themselves. It's nearly impossible to find the right balance... And what's really tough about being a woman these days, is that the men don't want to look out for us and be our protectors anyone. Some of us are physically and emotionally weaker yet are thrown out into the world to be hurt and taken advantage of. When we seek safety the men don't really care... it's so sad... Not all women want the same thing but we have no choice now. There just seems to be no winning here...

[Albinoninja66]

Soooo true!

[MrOracle]

@Living-the-ADvenTURe Believe it or not, there ARE men who want what you want. It's sad that women are shamed for wanting that, but it isn't men doing the shaming - it's other women. Anyway, lots of men would like a more traditional relationship, but since most women don't, men have mostly resigned themselves to never finding that, and that's why they focus so much on their own desires instead. They figure "if I can't find a great wife who wants to have a traditional family, then I might as well at least get laid a bunch..."

[Living-the-ADvenTURe]

You're right, it's mostly other women who give us the hardest time... but do you truly think a lot of men want a traditional family? I've read many online articles about men who find career driven women super hot and they say that successful men want that... :s

[Octavius]

@Living-the-ADvenTURe I've thought about that and I think they like career driven women because they make their own money so the guys aren't worried if she is just getting with him so he can financially support her. If they get divorced he won't really lose much of what he earns because she also earns money. So they think if she is with him it's because she truly loves him since she doesn't need him financially. With someone who isn't career driven for themselves those guys have no idea if she is wanting to be with him for him or if she wants to be with him for what physical objects he can give her.

Again though I'm not those guys and that was just me spitballing on their possible reasoning for going after career women.

[Living-the-ADvenTURe]

@Octavius hmmm who knows!

[Minxxie]

technically chivalry is a code of conduct for knights

[Prof_Don]

Absolutely murdered this topic! #Fatality

*bows like Liu Kang*

[milightman]

• Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?

To be quite honest with this, sex is a factor in a relationship for me. It doesn't have to absolutely soon, and wouldn't mind waiting until she's ready. But waiting until marriage? That's not something I'd get involved with. Sex is a healthy and enjoyable aspect to a relationship. It's another way to express your attraction for that person, see how you're compatible with another, have fun, and release. Why wait until marriage if you and the person have a mutual interest to explore that aspect?

• Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?

I don't think anyone looks down on virgins. Society is changing to where you aren't judged by your sexuality. It's your business. Unless you're in a highly conservative and traditional community, then yeah you'll be judged to no end.

• Why is chivalry as good as dead?

There's a difference between being polite because you're polite, vs being polite because the person is a Woman. You should be polite to everyone. Chivalry has the intention that you should be polite because of the person's sex. We should be polite and generous to everyone regardless of sex.

• What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?

Prove yourself to a woman? No relationship should be built on the foundation of chasing the other person on a one sided level. Both people should build a relationship on mutual interest. Both people should show they are interested. Not one person be coy and absent until the other pass some "tests." That's manipulative and doesn't do any good for both people. Women should as much interest as a guy, and have every incentive to get to know him as much as him.

• Why are women so highly dispensible to men?

Women aren't dispensable. What I believe you're referring to is a when Men have sex with Women, purely for that reason. Well that's a long discussion, but overall it's not because women are dispensable. We, on both ends of the sexes, are comfortable with having casual sex without getting involved emotionally. Any person that manipulates a person's emotions to get sex from them, just to leave them after the fact, is a sociopath.

[SweedyPie]

Thank you for your opinion, I enjoyed reading it.

[hellionthesage]

Well, the first problem is that you refuse to acknowledge womens role in this. It was women who pushed for the "sexual revolution" not men. It was women who wanted to be able to have sex with out consequence not men, ergo it was women who put us in this situation, not men. All the traditions whether we as a society wish to admit it or not where put in place by women. Women hold the power when it comes to sex and therefore dictate behavior. What happened when women wanted to remove those rules was that men could now get sex easily without putting in the work that was required before. This was the doing of women not men. As for virginity, its women who disregard it, if women as a whole began to see it as important you would see a societal shift that would return us back to what we where before. Further excaserbating the situation is the fact that women demand to be treated like men, but also like women. This creates a unreasonable expectation on men, they essentially have no idea how to court a woman, does he pay for dinner or do they split it? If he pays he is a sexist pig who looks down on her, if he suggest to split it he is a cheapskate who doesn't now how to treat a "lady". See the problem? Now look at the other end, he goes to a bar buys a woman a drink and he gets sex immediatley. Which is a prefferable method? The hard work with major uncertainty or the easy pay off with little risk and investment with near instant reward? This is the world women created, They hold the power of sex, they set the market value for it and therefore they control how it is obtained. You claim to be tradtional in your thinking but how traditional? Do you believe that a wife should always be willing to have sex no matter what her mood is? Do you think you should have to stay home with the children and cook every meal? Do you think you should obey your husband? I'm going to guess not, as so far as I can tell no self proclaimed traditional women seems to believe that traditional values should also apply to her. So whats in it for him? He takes the risk, he puts in the work, he ignores his wants and desires and you/women do whatever you want, completely unfettered by the rules of tradition. Their really isn't much reason for a man to do anything you ask for. Men use to be respected to the same degree that they where devoted to women, but some women wanted to be pampered like women and respected like men and ended up with neither the devotion nor the respect.

[SweedyPie]

I both agree and disagree with your opinion. I would not blame it on women like that, when you consider the restrictions that were placed on them and the struggles women faced daily due to men believing they were less than themselves. Yes women have come to disregard their virginity in modern times, but when focus on the type of images portrayed in the media for decades now, you can see where that problem stems from... as time passed by it just got worse, leading to women who don't value themselves (see link if you want)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy8yLaoWybk
Concerning me, I am more traditional was what I said... I am more of a conservative person and yes I do believe the woman should listen to her husband, because he is the head of the household, nobody is going to stop me from staying at home to take care of my family, I am focusing on ensuring I have the right materials to home school my children. The point you are missing is a gentleman will help his wife even though he doesn't have to and sex will not be forced.

[hellionthesage]

Don't you think its ironic that you claim that women where looked at as inferior while complaining that men are not treating them like they use to? The fact is women have never been viewed as inferior, not ever. Its readily apparent in that all responsibillit fell on the man, he was expected by law to provide a home, food and if necessary die for a woman. When the titanic sank it took with it 100 women and 1358 men. Those men stayed behind to die so that women could live. How can one know this and still claim that women where viewed as inferior. You do not die for something of lesser value then yourself, you die for that which is more important. Thats what is upsetting you about the loss of traditional roles, men are no longer treating women better then they would other men. The view on sexuality is directly linkable to the sexual revolution/feminist movement of the 70s. This is where it started and this was women choosing it, not men.

[hellionthesage]

In fact one can go so far as to say that women have created a world that is hostil to men, that is a man is viewd negatively while women are viewed as innocent victims as you have shown by blaming men for the actions of women. If media influences women why doesn't it influence men as well? Men are taught to act and be a certain way through media now more then ever before as we have feminised schools (almost all teachers are females and it is increasingly designed to benefit them hence the higher male dropout rate and the fact that 60% of all college graduates are female) and through divorce laws that cater to women (80% of all divorces are filed by women 80% of all alimony and child support paid for by men, women receive full custody the majority of the time as well removing male rolemodels from young boys), in fact if any one is affected by media it would be boys, given the situation. As for your clip, I am familiar with her, she cherry picks data and ignores the same style of

[hellionthesage]

advertising that is geared towards men, or do you not find it odd that its always a man with a chiseled jaw line and a sixpack on the cover of magazines/billboards/movies? Again, you ignore data and blame men. Who consumes the product? Women. Who writes the magazine articles that tell women to be this way or that way? Women. Its not men its women. I am not missing any point, in fact I was making one. It goes both ways, if you want to be treated with respect, treat men with respect, treat yourself with respect. Its that simple. A man helps his wife and always has. He toiled away for her, gave everything he had to her, he would even die for her. If you are not willing to reciprocate those old fashioned/traditional notions then you are a hypocrit. You ignore the fact that you are currently blaming men for all the problems of the world, every action a woman takes you blame on men. Thats the point you are missing.

[hellionthesage]

After reading some of your responses I have to say that you are very ignorant. You claim that women where oppressed yet have no evidence to support that, in fact I have already disproved your idea that women where treated as inferior. you yourself want a traditional approach because you reliase that before our current ideological system women where pampered, they where treated better then any one else. Women used men through out all of history and men where content with that as long as they where treated with a modicum of respect. We are not know, we are accused of being responsible for all the suffering in the world ridiculed and mistreated, women, through feminism, attempted to take the repsect that men had for all the sacrifices they made from men and give it to women while simultaneously keeping all the responsibility on the shoulders of men (as you are trying to do) You want female privledge and also male privledge. Feminisim has over extended itself and this is the repurcussion.

[SweedyPie]

May I inbox you?

[SweedyPie]

I sent you a message, you can respond here if you like :)

[ThatGirLqueen]

And why is fighting for and getting equal rights bad? I'll take equal rights over men any day. Some women can cry about it and think being treated as a equal isn't worth all they want, I refuse. Rights are more important

[hellionthesage]

@ThatGirLqueen Well, for starters they are not equal. Men had more responsibility, women had less. This meant that men had more privledg in order to carry out their responsibilities. What feminism came in and did was give all the privledges that men had and give them to women but then also made sure that all the responsibilities continued to fall onto men. Women wanted to own land, fine they did. But it was still the husbands responsibility to pay for everything and provide for her (the reason they did not own land if married was that the man was responsible for her to the point of all of her debts falling to him so he had to pay the taxes on it and therefore had to have the privledge of saying what, if anything, happened to said land.) The fact is things where not even equal before since men where expected to do everything now men are expected to do everything but are punished for it.

[ThatGirLqueen]

"Men had more responsibility, women had less."

Really? How?

"What feminism came in and did was give all the privledges that men had and give them to women but then also made sure that all the responsibilities continued to fall onto men."

Nope. They gave women SOME equal rights. Men never wanted that, thats why the world is still sexist til this day

"(the reason they did not own land if married was that the man was responsible for her to the point of all of her debts falling to him so he had to pay the taxes on it and therefore had to have the privledge of saying what, if anything, happened to said land.)"

Men made it to where women couldnt work and be baby making machines. Not women fault if she couldnt pay for it

"The fact is things where not even equal before since men where expected to do everything now men are expected to do everything but are punished for it."

Thats true but men had ALL the benefits regardless. I wouldve been happy being independent

[hellionthesage]

@ThatGirLqueen You do not know history at all do you? You also miss the irony of claiming the world is sexist towards women because of all men being sexist. A man was expected to provide food, clothing, shelter and protection to a woman. He was expected to die in her sted, hence when the titanic sank it killed 100 women and 1358 men. They where expeceted to die so that women could live, and those women allowed their fathers/brothers/husbands/sons to die while they rowed safely away from said ship. Men where drafted into bucket brigades (the fire department is a very new concept), and into war both against their will and with legal ramifications for refusal something women never had to do at any point in history. So that is some of the responsibilities, in fact men and women where both unable to vote, men only got the right 70 years before women did, yet the only reason they got it was because they where draftable. Men earned the right with blood, women got it for free.

[hellionthesage]

@ThatGirLqueen Women have more rights then men, they get alimony/child support 80% of the time, on the rare occasion they have to pay they usually don't (Less then 40% of women pay their child support as opposed to almost 70% of men) but their is no legal ramification for it but men routinley are imprisoned for it. Paternity fraud is not illegal and the man is not reimburst for his money that was scammed from him. Rape isn't even acknowledged if its a male victim, we have the violence against women act despite the fact that statisticly men are more likely to be victims of domestic violence then women. We changed healthcare laws to benefit women, reducing their insurance, men still have to pay more on life and car insurance though. Government medical spending spends three times the amount on female centric health issues compared to men despite men being more susceptible to almost all diseases. Women recieve a third of the sentencing despite commiting the same crime as men.

[hellionthesage]

@ThatGirLqueen Woman have always been allowd to work and in fact did. We have documents showing that their where female black smiths dating back to the 1400s, women worked in mines, until it was deemed to dangerous (funny, that never stopped them from sending men in to those mines). Women have always worked, in fact it was the goal of women not to work. It was a sign of status for women not having to work. As for baby making machines what does that make men? They were forced to work the fields all day and then take all of the fruits of their hard labor and just hand them over to their wives. Doesn't that then make them slaves? They where expected to die in defence of a woman, that her life was more valuable then his. Does that make him disposable? It would seem so.

[hellionthesage]

@ThatGirLqueen So, what benefits did a man have? His money was not his own nor was his life so how can one claim that a person who had to sacrifice all his material goods and his very life to another by law and social custom, have all the "benefits" compared to the one who had no such repsonsibility?

[ThatGirLqueen]

YES men were expected to do those things bit because of who? MEN. Men made it happen like that. They made most women stay at home, give birth, take care of household/husband, kids, and all. Look at women now. Owning businesses and all, why? Because of feminism. We dont NEED men anymore for that stuff. Most men loves being in control, thats why they're upset about women getting rights.

Women do not have more rights than men. Men get child support too and men would stop having casual sex and knocking women up, he wouldn't have to worry about paying for the child. Then after the child gets older, he wants to be apart of her/his life after the mom did all the work, how fair is that? And that other stuff I dont not agree with, if it even happens and not a fair law for it. I have do my research on the laws against men not having those rights

[ThatGirLqueen]

I dont know about women working. All I know is that some women were teachers which isn't worth it. Gotta do more research on that. Yes, I'm sure women wouldve worked too hard like too and I doubt men gave the checks to their wives. Women were brought up to sit back and be pretty. Men dying is not the fault of women but men because they made that law. The rich ones.

Men had many benefits. They chose any woman they wants plus multiplies. Cheating on their wives, had more rights over their wives, can treat her poorly without any punishment (including her divorcing him), can beat his wife without her leaving him, can get her beheaded, and more. He could do anything he wanted to do. Of course you'll make it seem like the woman had the best life ever. A thing most men do smh

[ThatGirLqueen]

@ Applefan1 "You did not say some girls treat men badly. You said MOST girls don't"

Yes most do not. Some do though

"LMAO there are a big percentage of girls that treat men like shit for no reason at all."

I bet its because theyre tired of men treating them like shit

" Like I said you just want to blame men and pretend women never do anything wrong and that is pathetic"

Lmao seriously? Why do women cheat? Because men did it first. Why do feminism exist? Because men made women property. Hmmm, thats the roots of all the problems

"they are mad at the women that want power over men and there are a lot of women that want power over men"

Some women do, yes because they are most likely tried of men running everything

"Men are not to blame you are just ignoring the fact that women do a lot of stuff wrong to"

Like what lol?

"Everyone is responsible for their own actions including women"

Really? So women being taught to praise men at a young age is their fault if they do it.

[hellionthesage]

@ThatGirLqueen No, women made that happen. Women have control over reproduction and there for set the rules. Why would a man place so much responsibility on himself? Further this question would prove that wrong as the moment women decided they want to be free of "oppression" its men who embrace it not women. Men are not upset about women getting rights, in fact if you wish to get technicle, by your own admission, by proxy albiet, men gave rights to women. Women demanded, men agreed. Unless your suggesting that men oppressed women through out history only because no women thought to ask them not to? Its illogical. Your second part is patently false, I have given you the statistics that show otherwise. You obviously hate men and are attempting to rationilize it. I am not saying that as an insult but rather as an observation. You think all men are essentially horrible people despite data, not because of it. This is an emotional argument, not a logical debate.

[hellionthesage]

@ThatGirLqueen In short their is no reasoning with you because you are not coming from a place of reason. So why do you hate men? Obviously this is not systemic as you suggest, I have provided the stats that prove otherwise (I would give you the links to the data but you won't read them and it would take awhile.) so what is the root problem? Hows your relationship with your father?

[ThatGirLqueen]

I don't know how women can about being property but I doubt it was women that made that up. I dont not hate men. Men on this website disgust me. you're all sexist and trying to make me hate men but I love my boyfriend, brothers, cousins, guy friends so that isn't work. Say all you want. Those statics are crap. Men wrote history

[asiag299]

I actually wouldn't mind having sex with my husband even if I wasn't in the mood. Withholding sex in a marriage is stupid anyways and unfair. All those other things sound nice too. Anyways I liked your opinion :)

[hellionthesage]

@ThatGirLqueen Why are they crap? Is it because they say something you don't want to hear? You claim to have no problem with men while simultaneously claiming all men are sexist (when you say men oppress women you say all men oppress women.) The fact is you do hate men, you cannot sit their and claim that men abuse and mistreat women and not hate them. Everything I said was true and you can look it up if you want, you won't because you have been told a lie for so long, that women where oppressed by men, that its become truth to you and if its taken away then what else do you have? "You have learned something, that always at first, feels like you have lost something." essentially you are not prepared to question such a large part of your life. That is why you hate any one who would make you question that.

[hellionthesage]

@asiag299 Well, I'm glad some one did. :)

[pnl86]

Who is the author of the definition of "respect" in this narrative? We must take words like "respect" with a giant mountain of salt, and appreciate how susceptible to self-serving manipulation such terms can be.

The theory of cross-examination is that the truth should be able to cut through any question.

1. Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?

That one is simple. Gender roles. Generally, men are the ones expected to approach, and as a result, women just sit back and wait to be approached. As a result, men almost never receive the validation and confirmation regarding their "sexual appeal" to the opposite sex, whereas women receive so much of it, that they reach the point where they're repulsed or irritated by it.

So, when men and women are "dating," energy is being expended, time is elapsing, and money is being spent. "Resources" are being invested in "this" reproductive/partnering opportunity, "instead of" (i. e., giving up) another alternative opportunity. For men, the "opportunity cost" is much higher, so they seek "confirmation and validation" much sooner (and more overtly). In other words, men are less satisfied with a "kiss on the cheek, because the "emotional cost" of that action is cheap for women.

What burdens a woman's emotional world is "giving it up." It's not about the sex, if men really take the time to think about it. It's about the level of emotional investment the other person is making. So, when a woman proposes "waiting until marriage," (for the non-religious folk), what a man hears is, "May I please defer investing in you in some beyond-mere-token degree, until you first invest in me quite heavily, both through marriage, and through the passage of time and loss of other resources that you could have been spending on another alternative opportunity, where you would receive the confirmation and validation that you are sexually wanted, desired, and found to be attractive by your LONG-TERM proposed LIFE-LONG partner?" The guy naturally thinks, "LOL, ugh, no thank you."

It's quite a difficult notion to consider that "respect" is a two-way street, and "what's important to women" or "female interests" is not the "only thing" that's "important or good" in a relationship, and "what's important to men" or "male interests" are not de facto "bad," "immoral," "disrespectful." All that amounts to is an excuse or justification for selfishness.

[pnl86]

2. Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?

Why are men who hesitate at the idea of getting married or "commitment" looked down upon? Sex is something that's important to men. One of the biggest fears that men have is ending up in a sexless or sexually miserable marriage. Men don't want to cheat. Men don't want to be miserable. They want to be happy. They want to feel wanted and desired and attractive, not by women-at-large, but by their partner. So, when the "risk" of them walking into a "negative" situation can be sensed from the horizon, men tend to stay clear and avoid unnecessary risks and dangers. Why sacrifice 2-5 of your prime sexual years, only to risk a sexually miserable relationship (and essentially be pressured into getting married sooner), when you can enjoy your sexual prime AND not be subject to the perceived risk of a sexually miserable relationship AND not be pressured to rush into marriage?

[pnl86]

3. Why is chivalry as good as dead?

The legit answer to this question is psychological. "Feminism" is about women having equal "rights," but women are conveniently silent and hush hush about equal "responsibilities." We want the good, but we act dumb and stupid when it comes to the bad, or the risks, or the "negatives" or draw-backs. "Chivalry" is essentially a gender role targeting men. It tells men that unless they can be "the rock a woman and his family can always fall back on for safety, security, stability, and support," then he is "a failure as a man." That's "unrealistic" pressure in a post-Feminist world where men and women can both work, and the prices of everything reflect that reality. "A single income" is rarely enough to comfortably support a family now days. So, "chivalry," leads to feelings of inadequacy, anxiety, depression, etc., in men. Women would "love" to maintain chivalry, but it's a very hard sell for "men" to "want" to maintain chivalry.

[pnl86]

4. What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?

Have you ever seen those commercials with the cheap sales tactics? "This offer won't last!" Really? Why won't it last? Will your company go bankrupt? Will your shareholders lose interest in making money? Will it be illegal to manufacture widgets anytime soon? Will there be a sudden shortage in plastic? No. So, you're full of sh*t, and this offer is basically going to keep interrupting my show for the next 20 years.

"Qualification." We all know what it is. Men don't need to "prove" themselves to women. If women are interested in men, they'll voluntarily choose to date them. If women like the guy, they will continue to date him (and vice versa). The act of continuing to date the other person implicitly communicates a minimum baseline level of interest. From that point on, people don't try to "prove" themselves, but try to "conclude" mutual satisfaction.

[pnl86]

4. What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?

The "conclusion" of mutual satisfaction is something that occurs in the mind of the other person. This is normally done in "positive" terms (e. g., giving a dog a treat to motivate it to like you) as opposed to "negative" terms (e. g., electrocuting the dog, and depriving it of comfort, until it likes you - and then stop electrocuting it and depriving it of comfort so long as it shows you that it likes you).

In non-dog-training terms, this is done by "giving" affection to the other person in ways that are meaningful to that person. As it pertains to the act of sex, if the "emotional cost" of "having sex with this man" is SO GREAT/HIGH that it exceeds the "emotional benefit" of "giving" the kind of affection that's meaningful to the other person, then that's all the "proof" a man needs to reach his risk-averse and conservative conclusions about a long-term relationship with this girl.

[pnl86]

4. What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?

The way men express affection to women are in ways that are important to women. That may be things like picking up the phone and talking to her, especially when she's not feeling well and in need of comfort. That may mean feeling like her emotional prostitute or therapist, and that's okay, because it's done in a loving way and out of love.

"Doing" (as opposed to "not doing") things (like the example above) eventually force the other person to think, "Hmm, how would my life be without this person?" If the answer to that question is (worse), then it begins to form the basis for "maintaining" (voluntarily) the relationship.

That's all two people can do. That's the only negotiating/bargaining power they have. Otherwise, women are not some "judges" on the Voice that men are anxiously awaiting whether she will turn around her chair or not.

[pnl86]

5. Why are women so highly dispensable to men?

"Everyone" is highly dispensable to everyone. Some more than others, but "everyone" and "everything" is dispensable. Even things like "food" are dispensable. Nobody "needs" to live. People "want" to live. In order to satisfy that "want," they "need" food. The "customer" has the ultimate position of power. Without the customer, giants like Apple, etc., would come to their knees.

Perhaps women who ask themselves why "are women so highly dispensable to men?" feel that way because they mentally put themselves in the false power position of the "seller." "Haha! I have what you want! I am powerful! I make the rules!" Well, what happens when I don't really "want" what you have, or when I "want" something else "more"? All of a sudden, you find yourself completely powerless.

[pnl86]

5. Why are women so highly dispensable to men?

Perhaps the biggest reason this may even remotely be true (i. e., women being somehow "more" disposable than men) is because of women brainwashing themselves into being preoccupied with identifying themselves by how "quickly" or "easily" they engage in some "sexual" act with a man.

By doing so, all these women become is a simple, "Is she a high risk or low risk long-term sexual partner?" Once that question is answered, however, what else are these women (to a man)? These are essentially the "choices" that men have in the marketplace. So, the "alternatives" that men have to pick from are mostly some variant of that. So, if "you" are that kind of girl, if he "loses" you (i. e., you're not in his life anymore), then he can more or less find the same thing again.

With men, by comparison, there is no general preoccupation with "not" being "one thing." So, to women, men are not "as easily" ... "fungible."

[tyber1]

What he said

[Anonymous]

The lack of respect men have for women is due to two things, the first being the utter lack of respect women have shown for men over the last 30 - 40 years. The second is how feminism has undermined respect for women. You can only cry wolf and play the victim for so long before everyone loses all respect for you.

Why is chivalry as good as dead? I think you know the answer to this, but I'll say it anyway. Feminism killed it by removing every motivation men had for respecting, admiring and cherishing women.

What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her? Again, feminism. You wanted equality and now you're getting it. Why should men have to prove themselves to you? Why not the other way around? Think about it. You are no longer the special flower you used to be. Feminism killed that for you. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Why are women so highly dispensable to men? Women have treated men as dispensable since the beginning of time, and still do. You do see that, right?

Marriage used to be the prize, the goal everyone sought after. That's not the case today because men get screwed over in the marriage equation. Marriage has always been set up for the benefit of women and children, but it was worth it for men too because they got something from it they couldn't get elsewhere and it was worth the risks. Today, those risks are far greater than they used to be for men, and the potential rewards have all but disappeared. Seriously, try to put yourself in a man's shoes, weigh all your options and ask yourself if you would get married.

It's a very different world today than it was 50 years ago, especially when it comes to gender dynamics. You can't change things and make them so one-sided in favor of one gender without seeing major repercussions, and that's exactly what you are seeing between women and men today. Until the inequities in the gender game are addressed and things are more fair and enticing to men, they will continue to opt out of marriage and committed relationships.

[SweedyPie]

I wish that you guys understood the way things were and why feminism came about in the first place. You seem to be playing a blame game where it's only women who have wronged by wanting rights for themselves after being taken advantage of by men for centuries. But nevertheless I understand your point of view, though your tone comes across as contemptuous... And women do have to prove themselves to men too, when a gentleman is courting a lady she also has to show him that she is as good a woman as he originally thought, or else he would abandon the attempt to win her heart.

[Opinion Owner]

Men took advantage of women for centuries? That statement is the ultimate in feminist ignorance. Regardless, feminists try to take credit for far more of the positive changes that have happened than they were actually responsible for, but more importantly, they never take responsibility for, or apologize for, all of the shit they have caused (and continue to cause today) for males, and all of society. Yes, I have great contempt for feminists for that dishonesty and selfishness.

Women have to "prove themselves" while being pursued by men. Do you not see the silliness of that statement? I am stunned at how blind women are to their own bias and sexism.

You wrote here about a problem and asked why it exists, but like most women, you are incapable of opening your eyes wide enough to see the reasons for it.

[SweedyPie]

Dude, you are getting way too hyped up. Those accusations are not necessary, but you are entitled to your opinion so I will simply respect that. Thank you for your opinion on my take :)

[ThatGirLqueen]

"how feminism has undermined respect for women."

Feminism has done great things for women. Men dont like it because some women refuse to be treated like property now

"Why is chivalry as good as dead? I think you know the answer to this, but I'll say it anyway. Feminism killed it by removing every motivation men had for respecting, admiring and cherishing women."

Feminism made it to where women are treated equally. How is that a bad thing? Of course itll be bad for men because again, men only wanted women as property. Also, thats not respecting, admiring, and cherishing

"Women have treated men as dispensable since the beginning of time, and still do"

you're kidding right LMAO. Women were property so how could they treat men that way. Women are just now doing that because we are tired of serving you men only to get used and abused

"Marriage used to be the prize, the goal everyone sought after"

Yeah, because women were controlled and men were OK with that obviously. he's

[ThatGirLqueen]

getting his cdake and eating it too.

"Marriage has always been set up for the benefit of women and children"

Bullshit lol smh

[asiag299]

This is so true!

[Anonymous]

Things are different today. We live in the Information Age, so it's easy to find out about various things with just a few mouse clicks. At least in the USA, we also live in a female-dominated society where women's rights are a hot topic. The divorce rate is right around 50%, where it has been since the mid 1970s. About 2/3 of the time, it's the woman who files for divorce. So 100 years ago, most married women were miserable, but they stayed married because society expected it. These days, it's okay to walk away from a failed relationship.

To answer your questions:

"Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?"
It depends on the guy, but sexual compatibility is very important. I dated my girlfriend for several years, and she insisted on waiting until marriage. After we were married, I found out that we were not sexually compatible, which was a major factor in our decision to divorce several years later.

"Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?"
For some people, that matters. For some people, it doesn't matter. See my answer to the previous question.

"Why is chivalry as good as dead?"
Most guys don't know that women want to be treated that way. All we see these days in the media are women who demand to be treated equally; they "don't need any man in my life" and many guys make the mistake of taking that rhetoric seriously. Most women, whether they admit it or not, are at least somewhat traditional; they still believe in gender roles.

"What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?"
I don't think anything happened to it. When a guy asks a woman out, doesn't that demonstrate to her that he's interested? I don't see the confusion here.

"Why are women so highly dispensable to men?"
Not all men are that way, but if that does happen, it's because the women allow themselves to be treated as dispensable. Some (not all) women actually have no interest in a long-term relationship. I personally prefer long-term relationships, so I look for women who are interested in the same thing. I don't do flings and one-night stands expecting to find long-term love; that would be a pointless waste of time. Likewise, any woman who does that, expecting to find long-term love, is wasting her time and will probably end up disappointed and hurt.

[SweedyPie]

The confusion is about the lack of willing to do the whole courting thing vs just asking a girl out because they are sexually attracted to her and wanting sex. So proving you really want her for her and not just for sex... which happens a lot these days. I know guys who start going to church just to convince the girls they are into them and then when they get the sex, they disappear.

[Opinion Owner]

Okay, but since I'm interested in long-term relationships, I take the time to get to know a woman before we have sex. That way, I know we both want something long-term. Shouldn't a woman who is interested in a long-term relationship do the same?

[SweedyPie]

Yes, she should.

[Opinion Owner]

Okay, that's my point. If a guy is only interested in sex, he'll probably bounce if she makes him wait more than few dates.

[SweedyPie]

Yes true, which leads back to my question. So you are saying because men are generally not looking for long term relationships, they don't care to prove themselves?

[Opinion Owner]

I'm saying that some men are interested in long-term, while others are not. If a woman has sex with a guy too early, she's taking a risk because she doesn't know which category the guy falls into. For that same reason, I wait and get to know the woman I'm dating before we have sex.

[ThatGirLqueen]

"we also live in a female-dominated society where women's rights are a hot topic"

No. You men feel that way because women finally got rights instead of being someone's property like we use to be

Not needing a man in your life has NOTHING to do with wanting respect from a man

"When a guy asks a woman out, doesn't that demonstrate to her that he's interested?"

You do know that most men use women for sex right? They can act interested, get sex, then dump her. Him proving he'll stay afterwards sounds reasonable to me

[Nicolás25]

"Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?"

I don't think anything is wrong with it, I personally however don't wish to be in a relationship like that because I don't want to get married because in modern times marriage doesn't have that many benefits and it has more detriments also I've never likes the idea of signing a contract saying someone has to be with me or having a ceremony saying someone has to be with me till the day we die originaly and modernly til the day we get divorced

"Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?"

Socially a virgin man is looked down upon because it means he can't convince a woman to sleep with him this is because the man approached the woman and trys to convince her to be with him and or have sex with him it is seen that the more desirable you are by women the more of a man you are for having the ability to convince females that you are more worthy than other males now that doesn't mean that it's ok to shame male virgins but this is why it occurs and trust me being a woman's first is still a good thing.

"Why is chivalry as good as dead?"

Chivalry began during the middle ages where knights would treat ladies with chivalry it was a social norm notice how I said ladies knights would be chivalrous towards higher class proper ladies but not to the smiths daughter while she went for groceries because it was a way of pleasing ladies and marrying women of their own class this was later translated into western society as a norm to greeting any woman you were interested in as feminism came and both man and woman were both productive members of society this died off and became just two people enjoying each other's company I think that the dieng off of chivalry is aglld thing it allows for people to see if they enjoy the person and not his mannerisms.

"What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?"

First of all lets begin by acknowledging that plenty of women don't want to be proven that a man is really into them in fact this could be classified as clingy, annoying, and to some a turn off since the guy is doing anything to get the girl instead of being his confident self a lot of women will even date guys that don't seem that into them because its attractive how confident he is and how he does his own thing without changing himself for her but there are still men who

[Nicolás25]

Prove themselves I for example went out on dates with my girlfriend and did sweet lieetle things for about 4 months without sex for 3 of those months until we finally became an official couple she admits that my persistence is abig reason why she began to like me back.

"Why are women so highly dispensible to men?"

Some men want to have sex with as many attractive women as possible and not really get to know them these guys like one night stands, friends with benefits, and hook ups yet others genuinly want companionship and chemistry with the women they are with I think the majority of young men are in the first way of thinking and lets be honest many young women as well but as we get older and learn maybe meet someone who feels like a part of us we become the second person who wants companionship, chemistry, love, care, romance, etc.

[Sleevey]

Well for what it’s worth here is what I believe. I’m older but it has allowed me to see how things have changed and draw from a wide range of experience to draw from that have formed my beliefs and opinions: - the tradition of waiting until marriage to have sex is actually one of the best things a couple can do. And frankly it’s become way more sought after by more mature men that want a healthy,, clean bride. But Young men are perpetually horny, late teens and early 20s get hard when the wind blows. But in this age of feminist encourage promiscuity those young men love the free milk and older men don’t want damaged goods.; so I think it addresses the first 2 points that in my experience a virgin seldom gets castigates for remaining virgins. The bonus is that those values usually make a successful manage more likely.; CHIVALRY is dead, and women killed it. We know not all women are like that but but we now have two generations of men that have been raised feminist and like it or not Chivalry was sacrificed to the point that very few young men ever think of it. There is also a resentment by men that women seem to be feminist AL la carte only wanting equality in area that benefit them but doing a about turn when it comes to treatment and dating.. holding a door is just as likely to get you blasted with a tor**** of crap by a feminist that they can open their own doors. Lastly male chivalry was in rep once to a “lady”. And very few western women qualify as a “lady” these days;
Proving your self to a woman in today’s Metoo enviroment is just as likely to get a man arrested for stalking then it is actually getting the girl. We can just as well ask why women Arnt proving themselves to men, both statements are sexist and frankly dumb. Way to much risk and finally dispensable, according to the dictionary it’ means replaceable, disposable, or unessential. That’s a hard one without sounding like a jerk. It’s because of feminism. It’s never been better to be young and single. Third wave Feminism encourages women to be promiscuous without commitment and that sounds great to men, free milk as it where. It couldn’t have come out better for men if we wrote the book. So why not play 52 pickup sleeping with multiple women. It’s also the worst time ever for men to marry, There is little to no reason or benefit for men to tie the knot, it’s all hi risk with little return. I love women, but I’ve witnessed way to many men destroyed by divorce. Men no longer think women are worth it, because they are not. I wouldn’t push my hand into a jar of razor blades to get the dollar at the bottom, just as I wouldn’t risk my career, in a Metoo no trial condemnation, firing, kicked out of collage on a title 9 witch hunt and possible jailed with revenge lies. It just isn’t worth the risk,

[Applefan1]

The thing is most women act just as poorly as men do, so for a man to find a woman that is worth his time and effort really is a blessing to. So many woman think the world should revolve around them, falsely labelling guys as creeps just because they don't find them hot, will not apologise when they are in the wrong and just don't give a shit about a man's feelings in anyway yet expect us men to treat them like a princess and respect them. It does not work like that. Men are getting fed up of being treated like this, society in general is always telling us men that woman are the better gender and men don't matter at all. I like to think of men and woman as equals. So unless a girl treats a man in the right way she can not expect any more than basic respect from a guy. Sadly, there are too many women that have such an entitled attitude out there. This is why men are giving up on women. Before anyone goes off in a rant I KNOW men also treat women badly but this question is focused on why are men feeling women are not worth it and what I have said is why.

[SweedyPie]

Good point, I do agree with you... looking at my female counterparts, I would say from a man's perspective it is hard to find a genuinely good girl too. Sighhhh. What is this world coming to smh. I can count the number of respectable females I know on my fingers. But I will say though that where I'm from, it is more likely that a random guy would be a player than a random woman :/

[Applefan1]

Yeah there are very few respectable women around in most countries these days. Especially western world countries. As for a player as in going around and having sex with lots of random people more men do that. Anyway the reasons I listed is why more and more men are giving up on marriage and don't want to commit because we want to commit and marry to a lady not an evil and nasty woman.

[ThatGirLqueen]

" Men are getting fed up of being treated like this"

Most women do not treat men like that. Most men are upset because women dont bow down to them anymore

[Applefan1]

@ThatGirLqueen you are wrong there are many girls that do treat men how I said. Most men are not upset because women don't bow don't to them. It sounds like you are trying to put the blame on men. Women need to take responsibility for how they behave and treating men like shit is not acceptable and there is so many women that treat us men like this.

[Applefan1]

@ThatGirLqueen so many women that treat us men like shit even when the men have done nothing to the woman.

[ThatGirLqueen]

"you are wrong there are many girls that do treat men how I said."

As I said, SOME do, most do not

"Most men are not upset because women don't bow don't to them. It sounds like you are trying to put the blame on men"

Lol yes they are. Men are mad because women want to have equal rights. Because women want to sleep around like men do. Because we're not kissing your asses anymore. Men are to blame, yes because men are the ones that made women property in the first place

"Women need to take responsibility for how they behave and treating men like shit is not acceptable and there is so many women that treat us men like this."

I know how I behave. I treat everyone fair. I treat people ow they treat me. I treat men and women with the same amount of respect, well at least I try/use to. Men made it hard for me to respect them and take them seriously.

"so many women that treat us men like shit even when the men have done nothing to the woman."

If a person deserve to be treated with

[ThatGirLqueen]

respect, I'll definitely respect them

[Applefan1]

@ThatGirLqueen You did not say some girls treat men badly. You said MOST girls don't.

LMAO there are a big percentage of girls that treat men like shit for no reason at all.

Most men are not upset because women don't bow down to them. Like I said you just want to blame men and pretend women never do anything wrong and that is pathetic. Most men are not mad because woman want equal rights they are mad at the women that want power over men and there are a lot of women that want power over men. You can't blame men for that. So nice try but your wrong. Men are not to blame you are just ignoring the fact that women do a lot of stuff wrong to. Everyone is responsible for their own actions including women. Women are to blame for what they do wrong to and trust me women do a lot wrong as well. There is a reason why men are giving up on marriage and don't want to commit to women as much any more because there are a lot of women that treat men how they want and deny all responsibility.

[Applefan1]

And do you know who is to blame for men giving up on women. WOMEN are!

[Applefan1]

@ThatGirLqueen

[Applefan1]

@ThatGirlLqueen Hahaha... I never said anything about how you behave. I treat everyone fair to but you are not treating people fairly at the moment so don't try to pretend you are. I am exactly the same I treat men and women with the same respect to but do you know who has also made it hard for me to respect women and also take women seriously also. Yup you guessed it women! Women treat me and my friends like total shit when all we have done is be nice to women and guess what that is women's fault once again.

I am a nice, kind person but I don't put up with shit from people and do you know what I have seen is you post so many anti men comments. You have issues with men, I have seen your other comments and you are acting like a misandrist. You are acting like another one of these typical bitter girls that I have met in the past and that is why I can't take you seriously. If you don't like my comment hard cheese I am only telling it how it is.

[Applefan1]

@ThatGirLqueen Read above it is the truth about you.

[Attractive_Guy]

"It is so sad when I see the lack of respect men have toward women and sadder to see that society itself seems to encourage women to lower their standards or to not respect themselves either."

But the opposite is happening globally.

"I find it deeply disturbing when I hear things like the news that my fifteen year old cousin got a girl pregnant (kept it secret) and she just had the baby, so now he is considering dropping out of school to be able to take care of them. This is just one example of the crazy stuff happening in the world today."

But this has been happening for centuries. . . Humans having children later in life is actually historically new and is the anomaly. It is quite interesting to see how distorted a person's view is just because they live in one era over another. Someday people will think it ludicrous to have children before 50 at this rate.

"As a society we have gone from one extreme to the next. From extremely conservative and traditional, to barely any sense of values and right/wrong."

But ethics is stronger today than it ever has been in the history of mankind. Progressively speaking all societies have actually greatly improved even including those who are historically extreme and oppressive.

"Men used to be required to court women for months, the holding of hands was almost unheard of and a kiss before marriage? Outrageous!!"

This was actually never historically true. As a matter of fact "courtship" that you are referring to never existed; most marriages were predetermined so instead of a "courting" phase you mostly had people meeting and simply growing together because they were doomed to be married. In the modern era of "choice" which is only about a century and a half old chaperoning behaviors were less about courting and more about moral enforcement and basically sexual policing. Romanticised history is just another form of exaggerated history.

"Nowadays, men expect the women to put all their cards on the table, and I mean all... after a few dates."

Actually this is progression. Historically when declared betrothed the moment you were married as a woman you became a living sex doll. While rape laws did exist marital rape is actually relatively new in human law and even today isn't recognized everywhere. The goal of dating has not changed, which is to mate, but at no time in history was there some elongated state in which people didn't just want to outright have sex.

You are living in a delusion in which you are victim.

[AleDeEurope]

Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?
Because sex is necessary, we have sexual urges and we need to satisfy them. How many marriages have gone to the gutter because of a bad sex life?

Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?
I don't know, you tell me, why women don't like virgin men? Why do they push them away when knowing they're virgins?

Why is chivalry as good as dead?
Well, when you are chivalrous to entitled women, women that don't say thank you, or women that cuss you out because they believe you're sexist, it's normal to see guy step away from chivalry.

What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?
Are you better than us, or what? Why do WE have to prove you, but you don't have to prove yourself to us? You talk about a lack of respect from men towards woman, but you're clearly showing a HUGE lack of respect for men.

Why are women so highly dispensable to men?
Maybe because many men have no reason to hold on to a woman?

Why don't you look into the mirror first before pointing fingers? Cause women have as much fault as men, and you are actually contributing to the fact that some men have a negative view of women.

[SweedyPie]

Ok. Wait wait wait. I think you read this in a totally different voice than the way I meant it. When I said proving yourself it's not because I believe women are better than men AT ALL. You know the tradition of the whole chase where the guy shows the woman the best of himself and tries to win her heart (I'm a hopeless romantic) as in the whole courting process there used to be? That's what I meant. I'm not pointing fingers at all actually, I was simply contemplating the way things are nowadays. The love... the genuine love seems to be lost in society. I don't know how you would possibly read this and think I am putting women in a negative light. And I did speak about the fact that women have lower standards for themselves and respect themselves way less than women used to. I am all about peace and love bro, don't take this the wrong way :)

[Kirah]

Men simply aren't as interested in the chase anymore. They don't have time to play games.

[ThatGirLqueen]

"why women don't like virgin men? Why do they push them away when knowing they're virgins?"

I'll definitely value a virgin guy. Heelllooo it shows he isn't a hoe. Who wouldn't like that? Especially since all most men do it sleep around

"or women that cuss you out because they believe you're sexist,"

That's rude to cuss someone out for being nice but some women also think the guy is being rude so it's understandable

"Why do WE have to prove you, but you don't have to prove yourself to us? "

Firstly, do you not know that most men use women for sex? They pretend to be a good guy that want them, get sex, then leave her. I dont blame women for wanting a guy to prove his self. WHO said women won't prove herself. Men want women to prove herself by putting herself out there in the chance of getting hurt by a users? Not very fair by the way.

"Maybe because many men have no reason to hold on to a woman? "

And vice versa

[ThatGirLqueen]

"Cause women have as much fault as men,"

How? Women were always property for men. We didn't have shit. Now that women are fighting for rights, men are mad. Men that dont want women to have rights need to get over it because we're getting there

[AleDeEurope]

@ThatGirLqueen few girls in real life like virgin men. A few weeks ago a guy asked why every girl turned him down when he revealed he's a virgin. He's only 19.

If the guy is being rude, it's ok to cuss him out, but if he tells you have a nice day or holds the door, how's that a reason to cuss him out?

You say most men use women for sex, well, we coukd say most women hse men for their money. Why don't women prove us they don't just want our money? I prove you I don't only want sex, and you prove me you don't only want money.

You're talking in past tense, now men and women are completely equal. I don't know why you bring out women's rights when we're not talking about that. And I support 100% equality, that's why women should put as much effort in the guy as he puts in her.

[ResearcherGuy]

Basically, from what I've observed, most guys are totally fine with the morals that you have laid out... until they get rejected many times. I know lots of guys (I am included) that have chased and 'fought' for girls never to get anywhere. If you want to have an experience that totally shatters your confidence just do this: chase after a girl you really care about, show her with all your strength how great you are, be kind/chivalrous to her, 'prove' yourself to her for months and then be rejected, have the girl never talk to you again and have to live with the fact that you expended so much energy over a period of months to an effort that went NOWHERE. That hurts. Especially when you get no explanation at all, except a half-hearted: 'I just don't feel it' from the girl.

Some guys find that once they stop being so kind and focus on something more transactional (ie fast physical intimacy), they gain confidence because these rejections no longer bother them as much and women are suddenly attracted to them. I believe that a good woman is worth fighting for, however, only within reason. Guys cannot be expected to put themselves through so much without any reward for their efforts or actual results. It is cruel and makes many guys frustrated with women and themselves. I think that there are issues with both genders and maybe even our society, but A LOT of guys really wish they could find a good woman, fight for her, and win her at the end, they've just never had it happen and are embittered by now. I would know... I really wish I could find a girl that has the same ideas as you and reciprocates my feelings... Anyway just my opinion, hope this helps.

[ThatGirLqueen]

Same thing can be said about women

[tyber1]

I agree research dude.

[XRabbitHeartX]

My word of advice.

Simply don't date guys who breed a hate for women and think we are worthless. There are plenty plenty of decent great guys out there who still respect and love women. No need to ever change your standards or way of thinking. Just stop going for the hater type. Most of those guys are already not getting women due to their negative attitude which explains the constant whining on internet forums from them about how women are not worth it. Ever heard the saying "The minority speaks the loudest"? Now in all these internet male vs female wars it's pretty much always the minority of people who spew their hate for the opposite gender because in reality you seldom cross paths with people like that. I've yet to date a guy who expected me to have sex with him early on or felt like the cards were in his hands. In fact I've yet to meet these so called men who have supposedly "given up" on women. Most guys I encounter on a day to day basis are friendly, respecting and have no issues with me just cause I have a vagina.

[AdamThomas]

There are lots of easy women, and when those women find guys they see as boyfriend material they act all innocent. When I was younger I had a bad breakup and slept around, and girls would try to get me into a relationship and I'd say no I just want a bit of fun, nothing serious. They'd always tell me they weren't that kind of girl, that they only ever had sex in relationships, never casual sex. Then later some would change their minds when they got horny and decide to sleep with me, then the truth would come out - they did have one night stands, a lot. When I did decide to find a relationship many would expect me to wait a while before sex, and yet these women most likely jumped straight into bed for another guy - while I was waiting, some actually did. It seemed to me that if a girl was really attracted to me she'd want to have sex quickly, or sleeping with her quickly made her feel more connected to me, I'm not sure, but basically when I slept with girls quickly they were always keen to see me again and very interested, when I didn't they got bored and moved on. I would have waited and done all that romantic shit, but girls clearly didn't want it.

[OrdinaryGentleman]

I can sum it all up in a sentence... Because they treat love like a game now.
They often have had sex with a lot of men (turn off for some)
Expect too much
Court system is built to destroy a mans life, yet help a woman.

Its easier for a lot of guys to just say fuck it, im not dealing with this shit.

Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?
-Because men need sex to feel confident in themselves
-Because men need a release and also a way to feel close with their partner
-to know that they are sexually compatible

Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?
-Because when you do a virgin girl they tend to get attached really quickly, expecting everything to be a fairy tale and ultimately lead to unhappiness for the man being pushed.

Why is chivalry as good as dead?
-Women killed it by giving away their bodies too easily and becoming raging harlots to nearly every male entity. Also the sense of entitlement

What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?
-Nothing did, some guys still do it. But for most males why bother trying so hard to get a girl when:
1. There is no guarantee she will want you
2. Easily be screwing some other guy during that time

Why are women so highly dispensable to men?
-Because women lack depth to most men, in todays age I can sum up the average girl and her daily routine, Social Media, eat to stay skinny, thigh gap, dress like a slut, fuck other peoples feelings, its all about me, they are all the same for us guys. Why bother?

[Anonymous]

Nice take i liked it.

I used to believe in things like this. When i in university i met a girl who i fell in love with. My first love actually. She was sweet and kind and i really wanted to date her and just be in her company. We did for many months and it was simply beautiful spending time with her. Little did i know that she was sleeping with someone else.

When i eventually found out my heart sank to the deepest ocean and still remains there to this day. I actually have lost most of my feelings for women. I don't judge women at all and just live my life day in day out. I can relate to what you say and i think the sexes have very little respect for each other.

Most of my pals think of women as objects to be used and then discarded. Its sad but maybe that's just the times we live in. Most are not even the slightest bit bothered to fight for a women at all. I too miss the old days of courtship and would have probably married her and loved her till the day i died. Such is life i suppose. I think you girls must sit down and ask yourself why men have changed and you will be surprised as to why we behave like this. It takes two to tango

Anyway i liked your take unfortunately those times are long gone and exist only in a tiny percentage

[ThatGirLqueen]

"Most of my pals think of women as objects to be used and then discarded"

Most men already did that. Its nothing new. Thats why some women are finally not caring about looking for 'good' guys. Except the good guys now think no good girls are out there because the good girls are tired of being played. It's a never ending cycle

[Opinion Owner]

@ThatGirLqueen i totally disagree. Now it seems to be an overwhelming majority of men. I am actually surprised more than ever that so many of my guy friends think of women like this. My dads generation would court a girl and want to settle down, but now its just fuck and move on. So when you say most men did that i have to disagree. I always wanted to be with a girl i loved and be true to her and even now i'm beginning to think differently about women. Yes its a never ending cycle and i hate it more than ever. I actually just avoid women because i'm sick of it and find comfort in my work.

[ThatGirLqueen]

Just because you and your friends wanted to court a girl once apart a time doesn't mean the world stopped. Other guys STILL hurt girls and all while y'all wanted girls to court

[Opinion Owner]

#ThatGirLqueen Hahaha, you girls just don't get it. Yes many guys hurt girls but those girls were too blind and walked right past the honest good guys and went for those macho bad ass guys and now they sit and cry. PLEASE!!

[SweedyPie]

Thanks, I know right smh sighh... wish I could be in that tiny percentage someday lol. Thanks for your opinion

[Opinion Owner]

you are welcome. I too hope to be in that small percentage

[godfatherfan]

Why do men have to jump through all these hoops? Why don't women jump through a few hoops for once? Women jabber on about wanting to be "equal". But then go through the list of exceptions like "paying for a date" and "the guy has to be the one to ask me out" bullshit. Women love to dictate the rules. Us men need to do everything and no expect the same in return. Bullshit. Been there, done that for 25 years.
Why does anyone think virginity is a good thing? at all? Sex is a very important part of any relationship. While some things can be "learned", some thing just don't click. To get married and then find out your sexually incompatible is not acceptable in any way. Then you become a statistic for no reason whatsoever. I would never want to be a woman's first, or last. WAY too much drama for most women. Women put such a high price tag and importance on sex. Sure it is important for the couple as it brings them closer emotionally and physically, but it is just sex. There is also nothing wrong with just making each other feel good.
and men have to prove ourselves to women? how about women prove themselves to us men. Show that they can keep up their end of the relationship?
Which is it ladies? you want to be equal or not?

[sjoes006]

We jump through hoops it just goes unappreciated and unnoticed.

[godfatherfan]

@sjoes006 Not anywhere near the amount of hoops men jump through. Worse, women expect it on top of not appreciating and many times not noticing.

[heavensgift2girls]

I am a little late to this party, but I will go ahead and answer your questions. Although I suspect my answers will be similar to some of the others. Mostly it is going to deal with Feminism, and the invention of the birth control pill.

Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married? It is so easy to get divorced because marriage doesn't have any real meaning anyway, and in the past people got married much much younger than today, so it wasn't like they were waiting for that long to have sex.

Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing? They are the minority now, and minorities take all kinds of crap so the majority can feel better about itself.

Why is chivalry as good as dead? The end of gender roles. It would be sexist for women to be let out of their gender roles, and expect men to stay in ours. Remember feminism not only for women's rights in the work place, but also butted in, when it comes to our personal relationships telling us that gender roles aren't even okay in our own homes.

What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her? Again this has to do with gender roles. Men shouldn't have to do anything that the woman isn't willing to do in a society that looks down on gender roles.

Why are women so highly dispensable to men? We have better birth control options now, so sex is easier to get, and do to the destruction of gender roles, neither gender needs one another anymore. Being independent means you don't need the other person. It is only natural that the more you need the other person the more you will think they are indispensable. Trust me when I say men also have a problem feeling dispensable to women as well.

[MysteriousChick93]

I agree. These days gents don't exist. Yet to find at least one I can say is a decent genuine guy. Such a shame. Even when your a nice decent woman a man who is too selfish or impatient will leave. Not without making you feel like the bad one , for not giving into demands so soon. Guys expect sex date one these days. It's cool if you are after friends with benefits but if you want more it just won't happen. Guys respect their mothers immensely , but the same treatment or similar treatment is not given to regular women he meets. I have had countless men disrespect an talk badly of me. Without good reason. I have been slandered for being a virgin. For not wanting to masturbate over the phone etc. I have had a guy recently approach me with my mom an he was so respectful towards her but with me he looked me up an down sizing me up like meat got my number after talking an within two weeks or so has not bothered to see me once. Literally wasted my time an told me sweet words but his actions never measured up. Guys respect their mom , cousins an family but treat women like an afterthought or not important enough to share their life with. It's sad really but totally true. Men with big egos dis value women an want her to miss him an love him etc without giving any of that love in return but for how long do these guys think a women can be loving without receiving it back. It's very one sided. Guys are selfish these days an to be honest love is not something I care for anymore.

[jaydogs1990]

We dont think women aren't worth it we just have high standards these days. Single ladies shouldn't butthurt because they do not measure up to the full package men demand from a woman to even consider a serious relationship. Men are now approaching relationships the way women do.

[MysteriousChick93]

I am not butt hurt I am very much taken. An love my partner. Men should not demand a package if they don't have their own self together first. Some men look for ones out their league, or make out they want something more an lie

[MysteriousChick93]

I said this before I met my amazing guy 😘😍😀

[Anonymous]

When one gender changes drastically, the other will also change to adjust. Women changed first by rejecting their domestic role. But with that, they also stopped acting like ladies. They resisted any expectations of good behaviour placed on them, so that they'd be free to drink, sleep around, curse, etc., as much as any guy while still expecting the special treatment accorded to ladies in the past.

If back in the 1940s all men suddenly rejected their responsibilities as protectors and providers, do you think women would have continued treating them the same way and still valued them as much? No, the respect and status accorded to men as head of household would have been revoked pretty quickly.

It's likely that if females today became ladies again, men's natural protective instincts would kick in and they would again act more like traditional men. But you can't expect chivalrous treatment without being worthy of it. Can't expected to be treated like a lady if you no longer are one.

[asiag299]

This is so true.