Why "boys will be boys" just isn't going to cut it for MEN

[CommieDearest]

On GaG and in society this shit comes up a lot.

"We're men we can't help it"

"Boys will be boys"

"It's in our nature"

"If you don't wanna be looked at, then dress like a nun even if it's 100 degrees, fuck you commie!"

Okay I made the last one up....but

Even women say this shit. Seriously do a quick google image search of "boys will be boys" or look up this issue on gag and watch people of both genders swear that it's just natural for supposedly grown people to shamelessly give you the up and down just for trying to get to wherever the fuck you're going because, somehow, in spite of being functioning members of society, they can't break away from this behavior from back when fertile women were mounted like a bitch in heat with no warning.

I think it's high time that everybody stops giving excuses for people to make other people uncomfortable. If you're an adult and you can't help yourself from staring at someone because..."wahhhh we used to do this when we were neanderthals we can't help it" Then I'm embarrassed for or ashamed of whomever raised you. Boys will be boys I guess, but if you want to be considered a grown ass man, control yourself. I have ancestors from thousands of years ago who did nasty tactless shit too, but I don't smash the neighbor's cat's head in with a rock just because I'm feeling a bit peckish.

Sorry Mr. and Mrs. Jones, I was hungry and it's just natural.

[Ozanne]

People need to be responsible for their actions, and quit blaming their culture, past, background, and gender. People know right and wrong, and use crutches all the time to support their bad behaviour. I get you, Commie, and I've gone through all the cry babies in this thread and it just shows how touchy people get when they probably identify themselves in articles like this, and react poorly because on the Internet, they can.

[CommieDearest]

Damn I wish articles had MH. I totally missed this comment lol

[Jaydog666]

I found this comment completly gender biased and offensive, if this had been a man ranting like a basket case Gager would have deleted it. How would the women on this site feel if I came like came out with some politically incorrect nonsense like "last time I heard a women go off on a rant like that she was on the rag"?#despicabledouble standard

[Mesonfielde]

"Boys will be boys" is true, as long as you speak about genetic structure and XY chromosomes. Otherwise, that is the greatest lie ever, your behavior is in your hands, and your sex and implicit sexism are just copouts to responsibility.

[Mesonfielde]

Although to be honest, I do admit that humans are biologically engineered to seek out attractive time mates, and the primary element to determine that is looks, and the body reacts positively (with pleasure ) when you see someone attractive. Guys who ogle probably don't even realize they are ogling. But I haven't been the victim of being stared down like that (yay for my lack of style), so I cannot completely relate.

I do think females and males actively attempt to seek out physically attractive mates, though. Females could relate to feelings of infatuation just as well, no?

[RedThread]

It just annoys me that the bar on behavior is essentially lower for men than it is for women. This should annoy all men AND women because the system churns out a lower class of men that believes and expects less for themselves. "Boys fight!" "Dress more conservatively if you don't want men to treat you like a piece of meat on two legs." "Hey ladies if you don't want to get sexually assaulted then don't drink!" The blame is always shifted to male hormones and biology or even worse always on women. Pretty much anything besides having to put the responsibility on ourselves for creating a system where we expect less from an entire gender. Nature makes us what we are not who we are for the most part. Just look at a lot of the male posters on this take that essentially add up to "hey we can't help ourselves!" Like having a penis is a void responsibility label like the sort you'd find on scratch tickets. There's a huge difference between finding a woman aesthetically pleasing and being a pig who lacks any sense of empathy.

The worst part of it is that if a man speaks out about this shit he's automatically seen as a "white knight" or a "social justice warrior." The white knight label is particularly interesting to me because it is accompanied by the assumption that I'm just being nice to impress girls.. You know because I'm a man with a Y chromosome and everything I do in life is to get my dick wet in a fresh piece of strange because I lack any and all sense of self control (sarcasm). I couldn't just be a decent human being. People seem to always want to protect the status quo even if we are all disadvantaged by it. There are many men who seem okay with it so I doubt that it will change anytime soon. Many women are also resigned to it thinking it's a reality that's to be expected even if they aren't okay with it. People are starting to wake up to this nonsense though.. The world is changing but it never seems fast enough.

[been_waiting]

best response thus far

[Mesonfielde]

""being a pig who lacks any sense of empathy." "

Fun fact, it is a learned behavior because callousness and being unemotional and purely logical is part of the expectation associated with being manly and or being masculine, or just being male in general.

[Drednaught]

@been_waiting
Your username depicts exactly what you were doing to see a good post like this. :P

[muspelhem_5]

I'd like to know where the empathy with all these sad, horny men, who evidently have no sex-life beyond staring at strangers is

I mean, a hell of a lot of guys end up like that, but as a society, we always blame them. You have all these hot, popular, well-rounded women, and all these well-adjusted guys giving them a hard time.

Really? That's the best you can do? You won the lottery in terms of genetics/upbringing/whatever, and now you want to hate on the sad people?

[heavensgift2girls]

Male sexuality is slightly different from female sexuality. Men are just more likely to stare, because are more sexually driven. It is men that have always had to be the aggressor in finding a mate, or else he wouldn't pass on his DNA. A woman only had to wait for a suitable mate to come along and accept him. You can't expect us to completely rewrite our DNA just because you don't like how male sexuality naturally expresses itself.

If it wasn't a part of our DNA then women would be just as guilty about this as men are. Men know it is wrong to slap a woman on the ass, but if you slap a man on the ass chances are he won't mind. Why? Because male and female sexuality are not exactly the same. We need to stop pretending like it is. Most straight guys don't even care if gay guys stare at us. We realize it is a part of who men are.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean the guy is doing anything wrong. In other words you are slut shaming men for our very natural sexuality. We have a right to look where we want. We don't need to explain our behavior. Hence boys will be boys sums it up perfectly. Attempting to shame men for our natural sexual urges is actually very sexist.

[been_waiting]

you completely validated her take by saying men are naturally programmed to do this and can't control themselves, which is a bunch of fucking bs

[heavensgift2girls]

I didn't validate her at all. She is thinking men should act the same as girls and that "boys will be boys" is just an excuse, and not a reason. The truth is that "boys will be boys" is a reason, and therefore we don't need an excuse. This is just another example of male slut shaming. There is nothing more natural than a guy staring at a pretty girl.

[been_waiting]

Male slut shaming? No, male slut shaming would be calling men who have had multiple sex partners sluts. That's male slut shaming.
"Boys will be boys" is an excuse, not a reason. You have the ability to resist staring at someone. You do. You choose not to, because society says it's okay for you to act that way because "boys will be boys."

[heavensgift2girls]

Yes it is male slut shaming. Just like women get slut shamed for the way they dress. Clearly slut shaming isn't always about the number of people the person sleeps with.

You are completely missing the point. We should not have to resist staring at someone. It is part of what makes men happy as men. It is perfectly normal to stare at someone we find attractive when they walk by. It might be appreciated if they don't stare, but they shouldn't be shamed for staring if they do. It isn't about if we can avoid looking at them or not. It is about people trying to force us to go against our nature. This is normal human sexuality.

[Octavion]

@been_waiting "because society says it's okay for you to act that way" sorry honey but you got it backwards it's society that is trying to say simply looking at someone is wrong not the other way around. I get looks myself from girls and sometimes they aren't subtle. They make me feel uncomfortable just being blankly stared at but I don't get upset or annoyed with them because what they are doing is not wrong. It's my own shyness that is causing the problem. I have to take responsibility for my own feelings not blame what I feel on others. That would be immature.

[been_waiting]

opinion owner- what is the most ridiculous part of this is people saying it's male behavior and guys can't possibly help themselves and they're simply wired to behave that way, because that's an excuse that's used for everything guys tend to do. women are also sexual creatures, like @octavion said girls stare too, but I think staring is fucking rude, that's my point. Staring is rude and you can control yourself. We're taught as kids not to stare are we not?

[Octavion]

@been_waiting the problem is different people have a different amount of time before a look becomes staring. If someone just stares at you for like 20 seconds straight then I think everyone can agree that is staring but some people think 5 seconds is too much and they get upset about that.

[been_waiting]

@octavion Yeah but the majority of girls don't freak out over a guy looking at her for a few seconds, unless he's sketchy looking in a sketchy area or something like that. the stares most girls complain about are prolonged stares, especially blatant stares at her chest or body. it's just fucking rude.

[Mesonfielde]

@been_waiting considering staring doesn't hurt anyone, I think people are overreacting. I don't think it's rude per say, I think it is just registered as a threat "why are you looking at me like that, what are you planning to do, are you a threat". And so you shouldn't do it because others find it uncomfortable and threatening, and might react as such.

That, and @octavion and @heavensgift2girls is partly correct about one thing - people wouldn't have the natural inclination to gaze and stare at attractive looking women if they weren't biologically programmed to derive the feeling of pleasure from seeing someone attractive, and feeling infatuated and or aroused. But I think females experience the same phenomenon, so whatever.

[DodgersGM]

Great Take.

Lots of simple-minded people like to absolve themselves of personal responsibility, and this is definitely what drives the "I'm a man/woman and can't help it" routine.

In the case you posted, dudes that ogle women definitely are aware that they're ogling; they just don't care enough to exercise restrain or control.

I also believe that they lack a sophisticated sense of empathy (after all, who would want to be ogled and examined/scrutinized to the point of discomfort?), but maybe that's a discussion for another topic.

[CommieDearest]

Thanks man, and I agree with your point about empathy.

[Bluemax]

I quite agree with you about the "boys will be boys" mentality as an excuse for rude and boorish behavior. It's no defense, it's no excuse. By the way, I do tend to believe that there are certain general innate differences in the mentalities of men and women. However, we are masters of our own behavior (or at least we should be).

For the record (and you can believe this or not), I generally don't stare at women, beautiful or otherwise. That being said, you kind of zeroed in on the one behavior which I think is often blown out of proportion, that is staring at people. Perhaps you could define a stare, commiedearest. I think you'll have a hard time coming up with an objective definition of it. What one person considers staring, another might not. What might be a welcome glance to some might be an unwelcome one to another. How could anyone know for certain? How can anyone know what the thresholds of comfort are to all people? Now, you can say that we should pick up on nonverbal cues, but not everyone displays those.

And why are the people who feel uncomfortable always or almost always in the right? Sometimes, in my opinion, the person who is uncomfortable for someone staring at him or her has an overactive imagination or is being unreasonable. I've heard the argument that a person has a right to set his/her own boundaries, to which I agree, but I also feel that we have the right to disregard those boundaries (barring of course if it causes actual harm) if we think they're bullshit.

[Bluemax]

@been_waiting
Is there ANY point at all at which you would say that a woman is being unreasonable if she is offended and/or uncomfortable for a guy looking at her, or are her instincts correct always? I have seen fights break out over this. I have seen guys kicked out of places for doing NOTHING more than looking at a girl. It is a minority, but I liken that to Muslim extremists. Most Muslims are good people, but there is a SIGNIFICANT minority who make things harder for good Muslims. And anti-staring policies are very much on the horizon in the workplace. I have a friend who teaches HR and she'll tell you. I never want to see anti staring laws in a free country... ever.

[been_waiting]

All I've said on here is that staring is rude. I'm not really sure why people are bringing up people being arrested over it or being thrown out of a public place.

[Bluemax]

@been_waiting
"All I've said on here is that staring is rude."
Yes, I know because you've repeated this many times. I would agree that it CAN be rude (and there is a big difference between saying "it is rude" and "it can be rude"). What I'm saying is Commiedearest seems to have focused on the one issue which I feel may very well be overblown. And I've asked you a very direct question which you didn't answer. I'll ask again. Is there ANY point at all which you would say that a woman is being unreasonable if she is offended and/or uncomfortable for a guy looking at her? The reason I ask is because it seems as though too much credit might be given to the offended party. Personally, I'm not automatically swayed simply because I hear someone say she or he is uncomfortable or offended.

[Bluemax]

@been_waiting
"I'm not really sure why people are bringing up people being arrested over it or being thrown out of a public place."

Well, I never talked about being arrested. I'll tell you why I did bring up the idea that sexual harassment for staring is on the horizon and why I brought up being throw out of a public place for what some woman alleges was staring. Because you said, "It *does not* happen in the real world, despite how many girls might complain about it online." I have SEEN with my own eyes and HEARD with my own ears in real life girls complaining about it, and sometimes unjustly. So yes, it does happen in the real world, albeit rarely. I have also heard with my own ears and read with my own eyes that staring is being talked about as part of creating a hostile work environment. You're quite right to point out that no one has filed a sexual harassment law suit over staring. However, I'm pointing out to everyone that it hasn't happened *yet*.

[Bluemax]

@been_waiting
And I never want to see it happen. Ever.

You and I are in complete agreement that it's a rarity. But it happens often enough to be discussed and I'll discuss it whenever and wherever I want.

[Anonymous]

i1127.photobucket.com/.../...f.com-add-text_15.gif I agree, now don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with __ looking at a boy/girl for a couple of seconds, smiling then looking away (that's cool) ^_^. But when __ stares at __ to the point of making them feel uncomfortable it becomes a fucking problem.

IMHO You have 2 stares that you can give a boy/girl. It's either the flattering/complimentary stare that'll make them smile at you and or blush. Then you have the creep STARE, ya know when it's as if they've never seen a handsome guy or beautiful girl in their life. I mean hell if you're going to eye ___ down you should at least try to keep it on the low where they wouldn't even be able to tell that you're looking at them anyway.

The boys will be boys BS is just a FACE SAVER that most guys use to justify their creepiness/lack of self-control LOL

But hey I can't talk, since I eye fuck girls all of the time. But unlike most men I don't hide it or ya know try to act like a 12-year old about it... I want __ to know that I'm looking at them.

But then again, it's only CREEPY or whatever you want to call it seems when it's a so-called unattractive guy in your mind that's doing it HAHAH (It's still wrong though)

[Anonymous]

How you can compare smashing a cats head with staring is beyond me. .

It's human nature to check people out. I've caught several women staring at me for a duration of time when they think that I'm not aware of their gaze. When I first started working at the place I'm working at I not only noticed both of my bosses were staring at me but I also overheard them talking about how they like my physical appearance. Does it make me feel a bit creeped out when I know someone is staring at me? Sure, but just like women, if the person that is checking me out is attractive, then I'm more inclined to find it to be a bit less creepy.

I will chalk guys staring as boys will be boys. And I will chalk up girls staring as girls will be girls.. And I will chalk up both boys and girls checking out guys as humans will be humans. Not only have I caught women checking me out, but I've caught women checking out other men with a much stronger stare than any guy I have ever seen do when the guy is far away and can't notice them staring. The movie Magic Mike exist for a reason. The sequel to that movie exist for a reason. Women stare just as much as men. It's human nature.

I would venture to say that the reason people are more likely to ridicule men and excuse women for staring is because they have the mindset (even if it is only in their subconscious) that women are weaker than men, therefore, aren't a threat... and since men are stronger, their stare could be seen as a threat that could put the woman in harms way. While in reality, neither sex is more threatening than the other. Neither sex is more creepy than the other.

[Anonymous]

Feminist rant noted.

But that being said, women need to stop using men as their scapegoat for everything and start taking responsibility for their actions and words.
Peacocking yourself for attention will get attention, this applied to both males and females. Be it a good reason or a bad reason, having your genitals hanging out of your clothes will get attention. Stop acting like human biology can just reprogram because you want it to. Women can't just STOP being emotional over nothing, women can't just STOP comparing themselves to other women... women can't just stop acting like women are biologically programmed to act even in a civilized society. Therefore don't assume men can just because you don't understand the mental differences.

I agree that it is high time we stop making people to make other uncomfortable, especially for things they CAN'T change, like biological thought patterns and natural sexual interest in the opposite sex. Things that are inappropriate (especially where children can see it) should not be so openly accepted because it's a certain sex. Your genitals (Cameltoe, ass cheeks, labia) are not appropriate in public. They are PRIVATE parts.

Boys WILL be boys as much as girls WILL be girls. If you can't control yourself in public and make your private parts public, I am ashamed for whoever raised you, Control yourself! You have given up the right to complain when someone in public takes notice! It is tactless and nasty.

[Opinion Owner]

stop making *excuses for people to make other uncomfortable

[heavensgift2girls]

Well spoken. I completely agree.

[Opinion Owner]

The two male down votes are the commonly know feminist fake account down-voters. I can almost guarantee this.

[heavensgift2girls]

I don't think they are fake accounts. I think they are men that were raised to be ashamed of their very natural urges and instincts. By accepting this feminist outlook they are then able to believe that the natural male has something wrong with him, and if he can overcome these urges then it will prove that he is better than most other men. These are the men that are typically called white knights as I believe someone else pointed out.

[CincinnatiRedsfan]

Even as a guy, I must agree with this. This excuse is getting old and it's time for men to stop living like lifelong children.

I see this all the time at my college. A girl was caught underage drinking five years ago and everyone freaked out, saying she was a "slut" and "trashy." However, guys get in trouble all the time for underage drinking, acting stupid while drunk and so on and people say "boys will be boys."

A guy hooks up with girls, cheats on them and says "boys will be boys" but if a girl does it, she's a "hoe" or "slut."

I can go on forever but men seem to get the pardon here. It's time to start taking responsibilities.

[Bandit74]

Girls will stare at guys with hot bodies too.
Maybe not as much as guys do but still.

The way you look affects the way pperceive you, that applies to both genders and if you dress in a way that stands out/attracts attention then yes you are going to get more stares.

Guys can't tell girls what they can/can't wear but you can't tell people where they can/can't look.

I also don't see how staring at an attractive girl in revealing clothes because she looks good is comparable to brutally murdering the neighbors cat because you were in a bad mood.

[Watermelonoma]

i agree

[Bandit74]

@Watermelonoma
thanks :)

[RationalLioness]

Agreed. I don't feel uncomfortable when it's done, but I think those who feel disrespected should have a voice.

THAT SAID... if a man compliments you, there is no reason to take offense and file a harassment suit. I don't know why some women do this. If a woman finds herself extremely repulsive, then that's HER. Don't get offended when a man politely and genuinely says different. Especially at the work place.

I want to tell those women to GROW UP.

[CommieDearest]

I agree. I think too many people are thinking I think people should never look at each other... my real issue is saying you can't help but to obnoxiously stare at someone if you have a penis. It's the excuse that bothers me more than the action

[Dakota_The_Rota]

How is staring at a woman at all compared to killing a cat, what the fuck? And this whole premise that a man HAS to look away from women at all times, is harmful to society. You also can't tell me that if you see this guy you would only look at his face right? You wouldn't look him up and down?

www.polyvore.com/.../img-thing

It's not just a man's instinct to look at women up and down to see if they think they would have sex with the woman they are staring at, it's women's instinct as well. And if it wasn't because the average man is out of shape in America, more women would be staring at men too.

[shessoheavy]

I agree completely. It is patriarchy and it is male privilege. I am an asexual male and this shit pisses me off because it is based on the false assumption that all men are sexual, and that male sexuality is less controllable then female sexuality. Sexuality is a spectrum for both genders. And besides, any time you are doing something directed at another person that makes that person uncomfortable YOU SHOULD STOP. Period. End of story. But on the other hand also because I am asexual, I feel like I do not have a relevant opinion in matters concerning on sexual attraction. I honestly do not know what it is like to experience those feelings and how strong they can be. I can only base my mostly irrelevant opinion of descent morality and the knowledge that not all non-asexual men act like this.

[genuinlysensitive]

" It is patriarchy and it is male privilege"

As a man you should know that there is no secret male conspiracy to oppress women. As a feminist you should know it was invented as a tool to spread hatred of an entire gender. As a human being you should just be honest about the lies you are peddling.

[shessoheavy]

"As a man" shit. do not define masculinity for other people. And do not define humanity for people either. I am a white cisgender asexual aromantic male. I recognize that have experienced privilege from being white cisgender and male. I know that to be true from my life. How can you call that a lie? and just what is my agenda?

[DonkeyKong1979]

I'm ambivalent about this post.

I can understand you getting upset about sad guys making excuses about ogling and lack of self control, I can totally see how that would be annoying and tiresome.

But I can't for the life of me understand why you have such a beef with people smashing kittens heads in with rocks, that's just a fun afternoon.

[shessoheavy]

lol, cavemen will be cavemen

[MrDetermined]

This is probably the most sexist and generalizing take on GAG. I am also overwhelmed by your sheer ignorance and maybe immaturity? Your take sounds as if only men are being unfair and acting like idiots and that women are golden. This is a typical take posted by a woman that is biased towards her own gender and puts all the blame on men while in reality women are MUCH worse then men in every way.

Your take can be easily contradicted by saying. "Why are women using their own gender as a shield against men? " "Why should women be treated more nicely than men?" and a lot more. This is of course a very atrocious take posted by an ignorant and very uneducated woman living in the 15th century who hasn't come to terms with the modern world yet. Just atrocious in my opinion.

[notverycreativeguy]

Totally agreed.

[MrDetermined]

Oh, look at the social justice warriors, aren't they hilarious?

[Gonetowardthewind]

Ohh I thought boys will be boys was for little children under 10 who played in mud and got dirty, got into little squirmishes with each other but nothing major, and they didn't care what the world thought of them. I always enjoy when I find videos of boys just splashing each other with muddy water and rolling around in it, and I always comment boys will be boys. I was always told that when my friends, my brother and I got dirty and caused some trouble but not damaging trouble. Anyways I wrote boys will be boys once on a video of a few boys just flinging dirty water at each other, and a shit-storm of comments came after me like I was advocating them raping people. I told them they were delusional and to get a life lol.

[Anonymous]

Yawn.

Women don't sexually evaluate men, I take it?

And women's bad behavior shows up in other ways. Read this selfish woman's bullshit (and if you can't determine how she was being ridiculous...):
www.yahoo.com/.../...nd-was-done-118228044027.html

Men and women both behave badly. Sometimes it manifests the same way, sometimes it doesn't.

Another example? Women abuse their SOs more than men (71%) and injure them more as well (25% men injured, 20% women). Explore CDC. gov to verify, if you need.

So honestly, your take just comes across as sour grapes.

[Phoenix98]

Actually when it comes to attraction in terms of men or women being attracted to or having their eyes drawn to certain parts of the body and just overall being drawn to looking at a man or women.

That is a biological instinct at the end of the day both men and women check each other out and both stare and simply being found attractive is a subconscious biological reaction. I mean I get cat called when I'm out jogging, I get looked at when I am out and about or at the gym but you don't see me going off the handle and I do the same thing in turn and the women don't freak out and go ballistic.

Neither gender is free of blame and we all do it or have done it at one point or another. Honestly though you are blowing it out of proportions and this is nothing more then a crazy rant, biased as well. You can down vote me, report me whatever if you'd like I don't care but I said what needed to be said.

[I-am-a-nobody]

@Phoenix98
"I mean I get cat called when I'm out jogging..."

Yeah, I remember jogging along and having women make comments like I was a piece of meat. It really put an extra spring in my step.

[Phoenix98]

@I-am-a-nobody Doesn't it?

[26ukdude]

Actually, glancing at women and checking them out is automatic, most men do it without even knowing we are doing it, I say this because IM A GUY and do it myself, can't we look where we want? I can appreciate getting annoyed at wolf whistles and comments, but looking? seriously?

[heavensgift2girls]

There have been studies done showing even women instinctively check other women out. It is hard wired into our brains to scan and check for gender.

[CommieDearest]

Glancing isn't what I'm referring to.

[Watermelonoma]

Guys and girls are always evaluating each other based on looks. There isn't anything sinister about it in my view until it gets either physical or stalkerish. Beyond that, I don't really care about girls physically evaluating me with their eyes, (as they've done in the past) or the other way around. My day isn't hampered by these people.

[CommieDearest]

"until it gets either physical or stalkerish" yeah that's what I'm referring to. Obviously people look at those around them but there's difference between glancing and STARING... and the point of the take isn't even about that, it's about the excuse.

[Anonymous]

If you yell on a bus you shouldn't blame others for over hearing what you say. Similarly if you venture into a public space you shouldn't expect others to overt their gaze, your desire to not be looked at doesn't override my right to look around myself when in public. Your body reflects light into my eyes, I'm not invading your privacy by seeing you.

As for whether it's 'natural' I don't see the relevance, "natural" doesn't mean "right" or "good".

[Opinion Owner]

*avert

[BertMacklinFBI]

well said, why anon bro! xD im pretty big on the whole "public" thing just because I get a lot of flak from people who say 'YOU can't FILM ME! YOU DONT HAVE MY CONSENT!" and all I say is.. we're in the fucking public.