Have women priced themselves out of marriage?

[RationalMale]

Simple question, hear me out.

Today, dating is liberal for most Americans. Hooking up, then dating, is fine. Living together unmarried is fine. Having kids together without being married is fine.

Most divorce filers are women, and not for reasons of abuse or cheating. papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=713110 Divorce is also devastating for middle class men, financially and mentally--divorced men die sooner than never married men, on average.

Argument in point--I was talking to a divorce attorney in Marietta, GA. He had a case where the wife cheated, gave hubby herpes, than won out with half of everything plus 15k worth of household stuff.

Marriage is a legal bond that can be dissolved at any time, for no reason, and gives no special benefits to men--married couples also pay higher taxes. Men literally have no benefit of legally wedding over just living with a woman and doing whatever.

So have women priced themselves out of marriage, through progressive changes in marriage and dating over the last decades? Thoughts?

[HoneyBoyChase]

I would say marriage has gotten to the point, where is a win win situation for the woman, not such much for the man.

That said however, despite the grim statistics, some people still make it work.

I do a lot of volunteer work at a church in my town, and many of the people in that community who I have gotten to know over the years have been married for life including some younger ones my age, who have only been married 5 years or so or who have just gotten married.

Despite the fact that American society has become more progressive in general over the past few decades, there are still many people with traditional values who work hard to make their marriage last a lifetime. We just don't hear about them as often.

Not everyone thinks hooking up or having kids out of wedlock is fine.

I'm not religious myself, but don't believe in casual sex, and don't plan on having children.

I would say it depends largely on the woman's mindset and how they were raised mostly. Sure they could gain a lot by divorcing, but some still don't believe in divorce other than for abuse or unfaithfulness.

[Phoenix98]

My views on dating and marriage are very old fashioned and conservative in fact we own parents marriage inspires me to work hard and find a women I can live out my life with as well. My parents have literally been through hell the kind that would tear apart most families like getting screwed by a bank that continuous steals from us being in bad debt for the past 10 years among other things but they have never cheated on one another and have somehow remained pretty happy despite the fact that life sucks for us. I want that one day but unlike my parents day, in today's world people can not be trusted no matter how much you may love or like them, so before I get married I will have several legal documents created saying that if my wife divorces me for so and so ( idiotic reasons or turns out to be crazy ) she will get absolutely nothing and she will sign them.

[missjayne]

Have women priced themselves out on marriage? Interesting question. Hmmmm... lets see. Yes and No. Both sexes have priced themselves out on marriage. After all it's like you said, we can have kids and live together without being married. So what's the point in getting married? Oh, that's right. The PARTY!! The right to say you got hitched to the ol' ball and chain. I love my hubby, but I love fucking his bf more *wink*. I did love my wife but she hasn't taken off that 50 lbs of baby weight. She is such a cow, I'm not touching that! That's why I cheat. OH, no! Not a little bit of financial instability! We wouldn't be in this mess if you would stop raising our 3 kids and go back to work! I want a divorce!! What happened to love? What happened to our oaths and our vows? What happened to our integrity and our promises to love one another till death do us part? Life is not a party, it's hard work. And it should be an honor to have that special someone by your side to help you get through it. Mariage is a joke, a fucking mockery because we have allowed it to become that!

[RationalMale]

I think for women, marriage is still a fine deal. Quite often, women deeply want to have that ceremony for themselves, be the special one a man is committing to... and most women marry men who out earn them, right? So if they get bored and decide to divorce, they walk away without getting screwed over in court. Heads she wins tails he loses.

[justbanANNAz]

certainly not. well i haven't anyway. my views on dating, sex and marriage are quite old fashioned and I'm glad of it.

[Phoenix98]

Good for you that's good.

[RationalMale]

That's certainly respectable, though I meant women as a group.

[justbanANNAz]

thanks, oh sorry. well some dislike the idea of commitment, yeah.

[RationalMale]

No, I didn't mean that. I meant--social change, and how women act in dating. Used to be--men would get married, because social rules frowned highly upon sex outside of marriage, or living together, etc.

Now, there is no social stigma. Men have literally no special incentive to legally wed over living together, and the fear of divorce to incentive them *not* to wed.

[srslyly]

Whether they have or haven't is irrelevant. Marriage is not something women are permitted under law to offer. They are incapable of binding themselves in any legally or socially enforceable way. Their rights to murder or steal your children, throw you out of your own home, slander you publicly, subvert your reproductive choices, ensnare you in support obligations, and even physically assault or murder you are inalienable. No process allows them to divest themselves of these rights, even if they don't want them, would never use them, and would gladly trade them for a marriage to a good man. The only thing left of marriage for men is the presumption of paternity; a double-edged sword if there ever was one. (frankly, i can't imagine why any rational woman would ever have sex with a man without being married to a different man)

[srslyly]

It's like asking if four year olds have priced themselves out of the housing market. Four year olds lack capacity to agree to basic contracts. If a particular four year old assures you that he always pays his debts, and has a stellar track record of honesty, you still don't make a 30 year mortgage deal with him.

[Tractorbeam]

I think it's like most things in life that cost you money, time and effort.
The quality of what you get will be remembered, long after the price is forgotten. That's fine if you do actually manage to get quality.

Only about 20% of men get a quality woman when they marry, because 80% of women aren't worth marrying. That's always been the case, and always will be, and there's no changing them. The trouble is that you can't tell who's who, until you're about 4 years into it or more. They're all equally convincing and loving at the start.

The other 80% of women include the 44% who seek a divorce within 5-10 years. The remainder (36%) will soon be doing their best to make hubby miserable. That generally begins happening after 4 years or so, but can take a little longer.

This link explains it pretty well.
www.macleans.ca/culture/books/the-two-year-itch/