Is Feminism A Bad Thing? Are Feminists Evil? (Page 2)
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Fixing what men go through is really more important. Violence, drug addiction, incarceration (1 in out of 100 men has been or is behind bars at this time) rapes, murders, kidnappings, sexual assaults, all mostly committed by males. Most of it is inflicted on other men, and then onto women.
Fixing these problems, would make it much easier for women in this country. What feminists bring up is reasonable, lots of good points, but it all seems to always be about advertising. The reason why feminism is around is because of men, and yea recognizing and addressing the problems is great, but other things need to be changed first
The definition you are using is correct... or at least it was. Feminism was originally about equality in social, political and the workplace. This goal was realized and in order to stay relevant the feminist moment started looking for other "issues".
Now you mentioned the wage gap which is simply untrue. The wage gap compares the average wage of men to women and yes, on average men earn more. On average men also work longer hours in more dangerous occupations.
Feminist also tend to glorify female sexuality and vilify male sexuality as well as promote unfair family court stands. They also push for vague definitions of sexual harassment which allow women to accuse a man of almost anything.
This unfair balance harms women just as much as it does men by damaging the relationships between the sexes and is reflective in studies that suggest women in general are less happy than they were 35 years ago.
You are totally wrong about the wage gap. It can mean different things. when first publicized, it meant what you said, but more recent studies compared women and men is similar fields, positions, experience, hours worked, etc. And they found that the numbers were different than the earlier studies, but still showed women on the losing end of a significant wage gap.
Nothing wrong with glorifying female sexuality, and the male sexuality I have seen vilified is that of the males who promote the identification of women as lesser beings, to be used for male pleasure without respect. Their push for changes in definitions of sexual harassment are for more inclusiveness. Not vague, but including forms that were harassment but expensive lawyers were able to confuse issues in court. Newer definitions clarified and made laws firmer, less vague. The relationships between the sexes where women were seen as objects for men's pleasure only were what was hurt. Haven' seen any studies you mention.
Do you have any links supporting the statement you made about women who work the same hours in the same field getting paid less? Does this evidence also show that the wage differences you mention are not related to experience and education levels or performance quality? If the wage gap were that common why don't CEOs hire mostly female staff so they can save on labor and get ahead on the competition?
Also, would the HR most female dominated HR offices catch on to this?
A lot of feminist consider even going up to a women in public and starting a conversation to be harassment. Feminists were in an uproar about Matt Taylor's shirt.
There is such a social bias towards women that if they claim sexual harassment a lot of times people will believe them even without a drop of evidence. As to the study here is one link.
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...n-happy-years-ago-.html
Your article on happiness seems to conclude that a great part of the lower happiness of women now is due to the need for them to work and leave their children with childcare. That is the economy, not feminism, causing women to be less happy.
Earlier studies did not account for the experience, education, etc. More recent studies have taken all that into account to make a more meaningful comparison. I gave a link for a very comprehensive study earlier, but cannot find it right now. Much of the info can be found in Wikipedia, but not all the sources. The adjusted comparisons find that the differences are not as great as originally believed for equal circumstances, but they are still substantial.
Does this evidence also show that the wage differences you mention are not related to experience and education levels or performance quality?
gender.stanford.edu/.../why-does-john-get-stem-job-rather-jennifer
They created the resume for John and Jennifer.
"If the wage gap were that common why don't CEOs hire mostly female staff so they can save on labor and get ahead on the competition?"
Well, profit = gain - cost. To get greater profit you could minimize the cost... BUT you could also spend a little more and hire the people you think are much more competent to get a bigger piece of the cake. 2 x gain - 1.3 x cost = more profit too. People generally want a greater piece of the cake, and try to avoid negative news like "Z company only hires women because they're cheaper than men"
That link was rather eye opening and you proved me wrong and in doing so helped me expand my knowledge and for that I thank you :)
It seems that there is bias in our social environment that provide benefits and disadvantages for both men and women and I feel main stream feminists are working to preserve the benefits women already have while working to remove the disadvantages which is not a true measure of equality.
I do feel that something needs to be done level the playing field for everyone so that regardless of race or gender we all start with an equally blank slate and are given the same opportunities to do with what we will. A lot of times discrimination is a result of ignorance.
Anytime we approach a debate with the agenda of being right (which we are all guilty of time to time) we alienate people who otherwise could have been potential allies. Instead I believe it best to come from a point of view that you are both comparing notes.
I love your last comment, in that you show that your are open to learn, and you share the right way to communicate about things. And since it was @bubble_tea that provided that, I need to mention her so that she can see your appreciation for her input. And I thank you, too, bubble_tea!
@Red_Arrow Thanks for the mention ^^
@Hexxus I’m glad you liked it and also happy that you can look at the link with an open mind.
Tbh, I think the reason is most people are selfish and if they decide to spend a good junk of their leisure time for a cause or to fight an injustice, they will dedicate it to something that touches them or hurt them. So since most feminists especially the most vocal are women, men’s disadvantages will not exactly be on the top of their agenda.
So for it to become a priority, there has to be more male feminists out there and they have to be vocal too. However, I also heard that those at the top who get to decide to where the donations (?) go are literal menhaters, so maybe that’s not going to happen soon.
Therefore, I believe MRA has a good reason for existence, but some of the members seem to only need a place to vent and get pity and not exactly trying to change society’s rules for men, but trying to preserve their rights, e. g. physical violence on
women is ok, because women are like children and if they don’t listen, they need pain to learn, so they’re indirectly also justifying to hit children too.
I agree that you can’t demand to erase all disadvantages first and ignore to erase all the benefits until A is done and expect all men to be okay with it.
However, you can’t deny that if feminists feel they get less paid for the same work, they also see little reason to pick up the bill. In that study, it was just an entry level job and she was offered on average 13% less than the guy. It may just be $4000, but with $4000 you can pay more than a few dinners for others.
And then there’s the other kind of feminists out there, who don’t believe in wage gap and do their best to be equal (the wrong way) by shaming men for trying to pay dinners for her (are you trying to buy sexual favours now?) and holding the door open (I can open the door myself!) and stupid things like that, things that generally just mean generosity or good manners.
I remember hearing guys who went to Sweden for vacation loved it there. They said the girls would pay their drinks and have casual sex with them and not think that the guy owed them anything, because it was mutual. I just googled to see if it’s true.. and it is! You can also read in the comments made from Swedish people this is exactly how things are in Sweden and calling non-Swedish people out for insisting on 'courtesy'. Note how outraged they are, because guys don’t pay for her coffee xD
www.swedishloveaffair.com/.../
This is something you could look forward to, if both sides are willing to cooperate to work towards the same goal.
I like how everything in your post was referring to feminists from decades ago and events that happened before 2000. Feminism is the most sexist movement to ever stain this earth they don't want equality they want supremacy and can't even understand that because the group as a whole doesn't know what they want so they regurgitate a textbook definition because they are incapable of thinking for themselves. You want equality? How what are you going to do to get it? Because all you normal AND radical third wave feminists have been spreading is inequality like the massive hypocrites you are.
"can't even understand that because the group as a whole doesn't know what they want so they regurgitate a textbook definition because they are incapable of thinking for themselves." The group is made up of individuals who have different ideas and priorities. They give the definition that covers the whole group, because that is the definition and the overall goal of most of the group. They have different ideas Because the CAN think for themselves, obviously! You want more recent feminists? Try Bell Hooks, Barbara Walters, Maya Angelou, Ellen Page, Ashley Judd, Sheryl Sandberg, Lena Dunham, Olivia Wilde, and an extremely great example, Malala Yousafzai. Grow up!
no YOU grow up feminists haven't done shit for men and thats why their entire definition and movement is trash! you can't claim you want equality and completely ignore the problems from half the population like divorce, alimony, child support, etc. name me 5 reasons why modern feminists are needed in the west because they sure as hell aren't welcome.
"Without women like Rosie the Riveter taking over the “men’s jobs”, America would have failed during World War II. Women stepped up and proved they can do it while keeping America running and turning out goods needed for life here and for the war effort. Nobody complained about feminists then. Nor did they dare say that women could not do the job which they were obviously doing."
A little known fact that pretty much sums up feminism: another woman at the factory "Rosie The Riveter" worked at got a serious hand injury from an accident with a metal presser. After that through fear of injury herself she quit the job having worked there only two weeks.
WHO quit after working only two weeks? And what factory that Rosie the Riveter worked at? Rosie the Riveter was an icon of the millions of women who joined the work force taking over the "men's jobs" during the war. Not a real individual, but a representation of all the women. Hard to work at the same factory. When trying to spread tales to discredit something, you should at least try to make it believable.
AdamThomas dude, you just made yourself look like a total moron, hahaha!
@Red_Arrow @GirlScoutsRevenge - A real woman named Geraldine Hoff Doyle was the inspiration for the woman known as Rosie The Riveter. She was born in 1924 and died in 2010. She was 17 when she worked at the American Broach & Machine Co. in Ann Arbour, Michigan as a metal presser. One day a photographer representing the United Press came to the factory she was working at and caught a picture of her leaning over a machine wearing a red and white polka-dotted bandanna over her hair. In early 1942 the Westinghouse Company commissioned artist J. H. Miller to make several morale-boosting posters to be displayed inside it's buildings. The project was funded by the US government as a way to motivate workers. Miller used the photograph of Geraldine for the Rosie The Riverter poster. So basically this picture supposed to symbolise strength is based on a real woman who quit her job after 2 weeks.
I take it back, ha! But still - not sure what you are trying to say. She had a serious hand injury... I'm sure she wasn''t the only woman to have worked a job like that. Are you saying she should have kept working with a serious injury? Or that her role was less important because she quit due to injury?
@GirlScoutsRevenge - she didn't have an injury, she saw someone else get injured and decided to quit out of fear she might get injured. A soldier who ran form battle after seeing his friends get blown to pieces would have been labelled a coward.
From Widipedia - 'The term "Rosie the Riveter" was first used in 1942 in a song of the same name written by Redd Evans and John Jacob Loeb. The song was recorded by numerous artists, including the popular big band leader Kay Kyser, and it became a national hit.[5] The song portrays "Rosie" as a tireless assembly line worker, who earned a "Production E" doing her part to help the American war effort.[6] The name is said to be a nickname for Rosie Bonavita who was working for Convair in San Diego, California.[7][8][9] The idea of Rosie resembled Veronica Foster, a real person who in 1941 was Canada's poster girl for women in the war effort in "Ronnie, the Bren Gun Girl."' There is your "Rosie". Also, 'The individual who was the inspiration for the song was Rosalind P. Walter, who "came from old money and worked on the night shift building the F4U Corsair fighter."' Doyle was photographed and the image recreated to represent "Rosie" long after Rosie was well known.
@Red_Arrow - fair enough lol...
I have actually heard of the Canadian lady, but not of this Rosie at all.
Yes he would have been shot, and I don't agree with that. Sorry - I thought you'd said she had had an injury... maybe I should learn to read, ha! I don't think that really has any bearing on the point though. I think the point was that women were doing these roles, just because the Poster Girl didn't stick at it doesn't mean the other women followed suit. It doesn't make their efforts any less worthy.
@GirlsScoutsRevenge - I'm not denying that, I just think it's funny that they picked her for the posters.
I prefer the term equity because I don't think that equality really quite captures what the movement is hoping to achieve. For example, if you had a room full of people take off their shoes, put them in a pile, mix it up and then each take two, that would technically be a demonstration of equality (because each person had two shoes). It wouldn't matter if someone got two left shoes or two different sized shoes because everyone would have two shoes.
In an equitable situation, each person would be given a properly fitting pair of shoes. Gender equity means everyone gets what they need to be successful.
The two words are not identical in meaning and nothing is wrong with your thought. But equality means "the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities." And the status, rights, and opportunities are exactly the things that feminism is try to make equal.
I'm aware. I do not consider equality to go far enough to rectify the disadvantages created by the patriarchy.
"I do not consider equality to go far enough to rectify the disadvantages created by the patriarchy."
Patriarchy... please provide the documentation of the patriarchy legislation in the US or EU?
I support equal rights for women. I think its a shame we had to have a movement for it to happen but the movement has been successfull. I dont like how the movement has forced men to be ashamed of their natural sexual desires like somehow you're a pig if you are more attracted to her ass than her personality. Your a pig if you notice her ass before her personality. You're a pig if you think she is so hot you just want to do it to her and do care about any of her other qualities at the moment. Its just bullshit and they are making the rules as to what's socially acceptable when it comes to dating
Feminists are trying to get men to see women as people, not as pieces of meat. If you want to believe that a gal's ass is something outstanding, go ahead. But feminists don't want you treating her like shit by whistling at her and making derogatory remarks about her body. And what you and she decide to do on your date is your business, as long as you don't force anything on her. That is all they are asking.
I know they are people. What does that have to do with me being sexually attracted to her. Its natural for me to be sexually attracted to her body her looks and I should not be made to feel ashamed of it. Thats what im saying
But you should be ashamed if you whistle at her and tell her what a great ass she has if you don't already know her and that she is okay with that. It is demeaning.
Who said I would whistle at her? And a fair percentage of women would take it as a compliment if your told them they have a fantastic ass in a tasteful and respectable way
Nobody said you would whistle at them. You said that you would be considered a pig if you noticed her ass and I was pointing out that you would not be a pig for noticing, but you would be for whistling or commenting without knowing that was acceptable to her. And more than a fair amount of women would not see those remarks as compliments.
From what I have seen its close to 50/50. Either way I'm more focused on the fact we are made to feel ashamed of physical sexual attraction and its b
Exactly how do women NOT have equal rights?
Lol typical propaganda and misdirection. If you want a real take on feminism:
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a10659-unmasking-feminism
You are either with us or you are a hate mongering Pat Robertson who doesn't want women to vote. The truth is feminism is evil because it is sexist, the fact that it is sexist towards men SHOULD be irrelevant. Unfortunately due to ignorant people like you it is largely accepted. That is why it is evil and that is why so many men and women are against it.
I would love to argue the point with you, but that was so all over the place that I can't even understand it. And it was that Take that was very wrong about feminism. Beyond that, as I said I can't figure what you think you are saying.
I'm sorry but I just laughed way too hard at this comment, it's just so... unqualified, like many other opinions here
Typical feminists can't process logic when it's right in their face.
Feminists cling to the oppression of women as a moral security blanket and raison d'etre for their cause, a cause that seems to fail existential necessity.
Feminists will cite instances of gender oppression from the past, like Barbara Walters or the Suffragette repressions of the early 20th Century. It's a great history lesson, but how is this relevant to women today? The fact is that they aren't relevant because American women (especially white women) are among the most privileged sociological groups on Earth.
Though they're a majority of the population, they have the benefits of being treated as a minority group. Yet men, who are a clear minority, get treated like the evil overlords, which we are clearly not. So you can see why men are tired of Feminism.
Just because the wrongs of the past are at least partially fixed does not make the wrongs of today go away. I have seen a few women gain things due to their sex, but I have seen more stonewalled because of their sex.
It honestly depends I think the word feminism has lost its true meaning and it's true image, likewise with some feminists, which have lost their true purpose. I'm pretty sure some feminists do it to get revenge on men or to point fingers at them, it's like one of those people who fake an accident like purposefully spilling water and purposefully slipping on it in a store to sue the owners of the store for having water there. They're starting problems were there aren't any. They don't hold the true title of a feminist. A true feminist stands up for actual women's rights and is still aware some men suffer the same problems. They don't over exaggerate things and they believe in equality. Like myself. I think some people forget that there are still women like that and totally treat the word 'feminism' horribly.
"A definition is a definition."
Yeah, a car is a vehicle but I could call a pineapple a car and the definition of car would remain the same, but I'd be wrong and a complete idiot. Pineapple is to a car like feminism is to a gender equality movement. It doesn't conform to the definition, so I would say "feminism" and the "modern feminist movement" are entirely different kettles of fish.
The history is irrelevant here, in the past yes feminists did good work but that doesn't mean that just because one takes the label that one is doing good work. You didn't comment on contemporary feminism at all, which is what people really have a problem with.
"If you are anti-feminist, you are against women doctors."
Again, it was past feminists that brought about female doctors, the present ones aren't doing such a good job.
"I cannot see any sane person believing that somebody should be judged solely on their gender, ignoring all other qualifications."
No shit. Affirmative action, anyone?
I would like to bring up the Supreme court case of Muller VS. Oregon in 1908.
Before the problem came about, women desperately wanted equal working hours to men because men could work longer under the law at the time. But as soon as Muller made his female employee work the same hours as a man would, BAM! The feminists throw a fit about it and convict him. Based on this, we can now clearly see that feminists don't truly want to be equal to men, what they're saying is "We want equal privileges to men, but not the responsibilities of men."
I am not familiar with that case. A quick look did not show anything about feminists fighting for different hours, and it was shown that feminists actually were against the outcome because it worked heavily on the separation of the sexes based on stereotypes. So feminists were actually against that decision. I will also point out that the case you speak of was almost a hundred years ago and it also excluded women of color and certain types of workers. I believe it has been modified since then.
Oh, well that's what i learned in school so I don't know. :/
It used to be about equality but now it's all about power. It's starting to creep into the basics of freedom and the rights of a person.
Abortion should be available for those who need it but it shouldn't exclude the father.
Women get paid lower wages not because of discrimination but because they put family above their careers.
The one last thing I really don't like about feminists is that they tend to want to dictate what a man should like. They get really angry when a man says what he likes.
If a man likes women who are submissive, stay at home and work like a domestic servant then it is is right to "think" he likes that. It is also his right to say it aloud.
No man or woman can dictate the preference of another human being. You can argue, you can debate opinions but a preference is a preference.
Just face it, people.
"Feminism" is a word that isn't going to be reclaimed. It's gone. "Feminism" is a fat woman with a manly haircut screaming about "get your laws out of my vagina!" as she protests for the right to have her own unborn children dissolved in salt acid, as she talks about how horrible and patronizing "benevolent sexism" is and how it hurts poor women.
girlscantresist.files.wordpress.com/.../...-pm.png
"this is what a 'rational male' looks like" setting the bar kind of low for your fellow men. lol
@Azara
What, are you saying the hat isn't as stylish as I think?
@RationalMale
Great comment, but that hat makes you look like a hillbilly.
hate to spoil, but that pic is actor timothy olyphant. not me.
I wouldn't go as far to say feminists are evil, but plenty of sexist, racist, and hateful people are feminists. As to is feminism a bad thing, in its current form it most definitely is. It easily meets the requirements for a hate group and is so hypocritical it makes gay evangelicals look normal. That answer your question?
"plenty of sexist, racist, and hateful people are feminists.". Well plenty of sexist, racist, and hateful people are CEOs, senators, policemen, even clergy. That does not make those groups bad. And those groups don't "easily meet the requirements for a hate group", either. People need to learn that the most vocal people that fall into any group are not necessarily representative of that group. Were the suffragettes a hate group because some of them committed violent acts in the name of voting equality?
Clergy might be a good counter example, but CEOs are not all part of some cohesive movement. They have virtually nothing to do with one another. Comparing CEOs as a group to feminists as a group is invalid. And trust me, I don't approve of the clergy either, so your point is meaningless to me. "Were the suffragettes blah blah blah?" Feminists aren't suffragettes, so that question is also meaningless. I don't see any suffragettes around. Feminism is still most definitely, 100% a bad thing and the majority of feminists are hateful people.
The definition of feminists is "Feminists are people, both men and women, who believe in equal rights for females". So suffragettes were most certainly feminists. Also, many feminists act or think alone, not as part of a movement, so yes, CEOs are a class, or group, of people and their thoughts and actions can be compared to feminist individuals as part of the feminist group. You clearly believe that equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women (the definition of feminism) is 100% a bad thing as you said, so there is no point in further discussion. Thank you for reading this and commenting.
I didn't say suffragettes weren't feminists, I said feminists aren't suffragettes, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T. There are no suffragettes around. That's a thing of the past and it's staying that way. And the dictionary definition of feminism is invalid. Actions define movements. Not dictionaries. The dictionary just hasn't been updated yet.
I remember a classmate asking my teacher what a feminist is and he said "Women who hate men". I dislike it when people do that and I'm not even a feminist. There are your regular feminist and then there are your feminist who hate men. My friend is a feminist, I remember her talking about how it's unfair that a women can sport feminine clothing but if a guy is noticeably transgender or comes to school with a tutu, then he'll be made fun of. There are good feminist and bad feminist..
Now you have wisdom, recognizing that there are the good and the bad, and it does not paint the whole group. thank you.
Of course, feminism is a bad thing. Especially for every woman who is married or she plans to. In a couple both the husband and the wife should be a team where the main interest should be what improve way of living of the entire team. Feminists are just worried improving the way of living of women , just the 50% of the team. Sometimes if the way of living of somebody gets better have the consequence of getting worse the way of living of somebody the quality of living of the team does not get better. Why to be happy about it unless you are a feminist?
I don't get why we need feminism here in America. In other countries it's quite obvious. I'm all for equality and keeping everyone's rights equal and held no matter the circumstances. That being said, all the rights here in America are the same. If anything, women have more rights than men. But that's a topic for another day. If there is a "wage gap" it will on a case by case basis per company because there are laws in place that make that discrimination. As for the rape culture, that's illegal too. No one goes around encouraging others to rape. It's illegal and highly looked down upon. But all in all, I support equal rights for both genders, not just women.
Being a femininazi is a bad thing, being a feminist is not.
Real feminist just want equality.
Feminazis want to rule the world with their vaginas and blame guys all the time.
Okay, i can buy that. But there are some people who put all feminists in the basket that is reserved for feminazis.
Exactly :( Not all feminist hate men, I love men <3 And all I want is equality <3
Your going to get it sweet cheeks because I'm putting a female in that presidential chair. Just keep to being the right feminist because you are going to get different political parties who will sabatoge the right feminists. I wish feminists had more power when my mother needed help.
Feminists and feminazis are the same thing. Simply feminazis don't veil their targets with lies about "equality" like feminists do.
This is where their differences end.
@Eugene They are not lies... but whatever.
@Eugene - I have noticed your hatred of women who have brains all over G@G. Was wondering how long till you targeted this.
Feminists? Brains?
@Eugene yes sir, we have brains. Every human being capable of functioning has a brain.
@FallOutBoy2001 I do actually question if their brains are functioning.
@Eugene so classy 😂
@Eugene I assure you our brains function just fine. I despise the feminazi, and as a result I prefer the term equalist, but many feminists aren't as bad as you make them out to be. I don't hate guys, I quite like them.
@FallOutBoy2001 equality has been achieved many decades ago. Everything else is either lack of desire to achieve something on one's own, or just desire to have control and power with no responsibilities whatsoever.
@Eugene Around the world 62 million girls are not in school. Globally, 1 in 3 women will experience gender-based violence in her lifetime. In the developing world, 1 in 7 girls is married before her 15th birthday, with some child brides as young as 8 or 9. Each year more than 287,000 women, 99 percent of them in developing countries, die from pregnancy- and childbirth-related complications.
While women make up more than 40 percent of the agriculture labor force only 3 to 20 percent are landholders. In Africa, women-owned enterprises make up as little as 10 percent of all businesses. In South Asia, that number is only 3 percent. And despite representing half the global population, women comprise less than 20 percent of the world's legislators. The wage gap still exists in America, meaning I can work my ass off and still get paid less than my male counterparts, who work just as hard.
@Eugene These are only made worse because people like you tell us that "equality Has been achieved many decades ago" and its just because of a "lack of desire to achieve something on ones own" or "desire to have control or power with no responsibilities whatsoever"
I'm not trying to control guys, because seriously, you guys are pretty awesome and I like you guys a lot. Most of my friends (and my boyfriend) are guys, and I have no intention of controlling them. However, that doesn't mean I don't want men and women to be equal. I want it so everyone is equal, regardless of sex, sexuality, race, or gender identity. I don't mean equal job wise, because we've made massive bounds towards that, but not fearing you'll get raped, shot, or have the shit beat out of you just because you've stepped foot outside your house, and people don't agree with your lifestyle. That seems like not only a better world to live in, but somewhere where we could make much better advances in quality of life.
@FallOutBoy2001 I'm not taking into account barbaric muslim countries.
As for civilized lands, they have all the opportunities; they apparently just aren't using them.
There can be different reasons:
1.) Lack of testosterone. It's quite obvious that it's exactly what's driving males to be more competitive; do you want to sue nature, sweetheart?
That also influences desire to achieve higher status via competition.
2.) Generally, girls grow up in the environment where men are chivalrous and take care of women. Upon entering competitive business field, they don't get this "chivalrous" attitude and get exactly "equal" treatment as a competitor (just like other men that you failed to mention). To many of them it's a shock and they crack under pressure, as they're not ready for it.
3.) As for "unequal" pay, can you pinpoint one? Not like "hurr, girls earn less while working as chefs!", where most girls are prep cooks, that obviously earn less than head chefs (that are mostly male).
@FallOutBoy2001 so now you see, sweetheart, why your arguments are utter bullshit?
@Eugene 1.) Lack of testosterone. While technically I and everyone else on this planet has testosterone, it's true men have more testosterone. It doesn't mean that women can't be as competitive, because competitiveness isn't only influenced by testosterone.
@Eugene 2.) Growing up in an environment where men are chivalrous and take care of women. That's actually kind of laughable. I have female friends all over the country, and if you polled all of us, none of us would say men are like that. I don't know where you live, or how you treat women, but many of us are treated the same, if not worse, as guys. Therefor, when many of us get to the workforce, we're not going to crack under pressure. I don't know where you got that insane idea.
@Eugene 3.) As for "unequal" pay, yes I can pinpoint one, or two examples. One is from my hometown. My friend Will gets paid 80 bucks a day over the summer to work at our local theme park. His girlfriend gets paid 65 bucks to do the exact same job as him, for exactly the same amount of time. And she's not bad at her job; they're both ride operators for the exact same ride, and they often work the same shift. The other example is teachers. Even in a profession where 70% of the workers are female, male teachers earn, on average, about $1,096 a week, whereas women earn $965 a week. Does that seem fair?
@Eugene you want to stop calling me sweetheart as well? My boyfriend can call me that, but you can't. Please and thank you.
And just so we're clear, you should be concerned with "the barbaric Muslim countries" as well, because the women there matter just as much as women here, but they're way more oppressed. I want to live in a world where people everywhere can get along without being discriminated against, not just in my town or county, but in other countries as well. That's what feminism or equalism is all about.
@FallOutBoy2001 and what are you going to do over me calling you "sweetheart"? Sue me? Report me? :D
To sum it up, since it's getting tiresome to point out obvious things to every insane feminist I encounter: can you name me one thing that prevents you from being a millionaire other than yourself?
If you cannot, what are you bitching about then?
@FallOutBoy2001 @Eugene the notifications dudes. I'm dying right here lol
Well, you can see an example of a brainless thing that never even considered that upon acquiring a job a guy just asked for a higher payment than a girl.
Or like in my case years ago I just asked for a raise and got one. So me and one girl were doing the same job, yet I would earn more because she never bothered to ask for a raise.
Which is quite obvious: she didn't had a girlfriend that requires financial spendings; she got a boyfriend that generally would pay for her.
@Eugene 😑
@Eugene Mate, I'm not going to sue you or report you. I asked you nicely to stop calling me sweetheart. That's what my boyfriend calls me, and you're not my boyfriend.
None of this stops me or any other woman from becoming a millionaire. However, it makes it more challenging for us. I'm not bitching about anything, actually. I've been nothing but polite this entire time, and I've pointed out multiple times that I'm more concerned about equality for everyone, everywhere than equality for me, though that would be nice. If you think about it, how would you feel if you found out that the person who has the intellect to cure cancer, reverse aging, or discover the secrets of dark matter was a girl growing up in a Africa or South Asia. In countries in these areas, girls are liable to be killed at birth, go without an education, or be married at an early age and trapped raising children she may not have even wanted.
@Eugene Women in America have it much better than women living elsewhere, because we can all get a basic education, but the wage gap still exists and that is a problem. Upon acquiring a job, yes a guy can ask for a higher salary, but so can a girl. In my example of Will and his girlfriend, neither one asked for a certain salary, they were just given those salaries by the administration. And yes, men and women can just ask for a raise and get one, like you did; however, it's been shown when women do request either a raise or a higher starting salary they are more likely to be perceived as greedy and demanding.
@FallOutBoy2001
Few things:
1.) What exactly it makes "more challenging" for you? Some specific things, not rigged numbers :)
2.) So why instead of focusing on trying to spread feminism across barbarians you keep nagging and poisoning civilized men in your area about non-existing issues? Or you want your men from your country to do something about instead of you? Afraid to get enslaved, raped and beheaded over there?
Oh, and make that girl ask her boss directly why she's getting paid less. I just want to hear an answer ;)
@Eugene sure, I'll tell her to ask her boss next year. Park shuts down because it's winter and it snows here. I'd like to hear the answer to it as well.
1.) For those of us that intend to go the route of make our million from working high up in a corporation, oftentimes we don't get paid as much. Don't tell me again that I'm making it up, I'll go grab more examples if you insist on downplaying it. For those of us who want to go the route of starting a new business, many times males don't want to take us as seriously or brand us as lesbians and man-haters because we have the audacity to be bold and confident; those aren't feminine qualities. It is possible, it definitely is, but it's does help to be a man.
@Eugene 2.) I'm not attempting to nag and poison civilized men in my area over non-existent issues. I'm educating them not only about some of the less-important issues present in the developed world, but the way more important issues going on in developing countries. Why, you ask? It generally helps to have more than 50% of the population on-board with an issue. I'd love if more of them joined in and helped, because there are never too many people doing things to help end things like gender-based violence, lack of education, and child brides. If I went there, it would be prudent to be at least a little wary of being enslaved, raped or beheaded, because it can and does happen. Hell, rape happens in here! I would love to go there and work with some of the villages in order to make the lives of the women there better, but I'm waiting until I'm older and have a good education so I can be of better assistance.
@FallOutBoy2001
Yes, you're making it up. I already explained why generally women are less competitive, but I can go into details if you want to ;)
1.) Exactly; those are feminine qualities, therefore you get perfectly equal treatment as a competitor. In short: you get treated like men treat other men, but I guess you never thought from this angle. You don't like it, huh? Boo-hoo-hoo, evil, evil men. ;(
2.) Mkay, let's assume local men support you in civilizing barbarians. So then what? Tell barbarians to get civilized? They'll dismiss your opinion since you're an infidel. Gather an army and bring "diplomacy"? Well, I guess it won't really matter that most soldiers are male, eh?
@Eugene 1.) No, boldness and confidence are not feminine qualities. In short; men don't call each other gay for being bold and confident. Which is a miracle, because you all call each other gay at the drop of a hat, and I admit I've joined in and gotten called gay back. Did it bother me? Not really. So, no, I'm not getting treated like men treat other men in that regard. I'd rather be treated like one of the other men, thanks.
@Eugene 2.) Ok, so we have assumed that they're all onboard with helping spread equal right in developing countries. So we don't order them to do anything. We start by going into the villages, one by one, and teaching them about equal rights. It's all about gaining their trust, like with any human. No human is going to blindly obey whatever someone says without fully trusting them, so you want them to trust that what you're asking them to do is right. If need be, we can bring in the army and diplomacy, but hopefully it doesn't come to that. No one's ever learned anything by sheer force. And it just happens that soldiers are mainly male, a small part of that being because of the sexual assault and harassment that's in the army, and many of the commercials appealing mainly to men.
@FallOutBoy2001 Men get called differently in many ways;they get pressured (sometimes even physically) and so on and on. Methods may vary, overall goal is the same: to eliminate one's competition, so you get the same treatment. And you dislike it. So basically you cannot handle the pressure and seek benefits solely based on your incompetence. Which is exactly what I was talking about.
2.) Barbarians aren't going to listen to infidels. Their religion is islam. Your efforts are useless.
3.) While trying to sissify your men, you make them more vulnerable to barbarians and outer threats.
@Eugene 1) I'm not saying I dislike being called a lesbian and man hater, at least anymore than a man doesn't like being called gay. I just don't care, I know it bothers some people, but I think the point I was trying to make is that they view women who are just as aggressive, bold, and confident as they are, differently than they view men with the same characteristics.
2) Well, it seems they do listen to the doctors and humanitarians that help them. And I was more talking about countries where the main religion isn't Islam. For many countries in Africa, the main religion isn't Islam, and besides, I don't know if you've ever met Muslims, but they're not all "oh you don't believe in Allah we must not believe anything that comes out of your mouth"
3) remind me again how I'm sissifying them?
@FallOutBoy2001
1.) Yes! Exactly! Equal treatment! But... you don't like it anymore. Evil, evil men ;(
2.) I assume since you're a feminist, you're also a leftist and libtard (i. e. liberal), therefore things you know about islam are received from same libtards. I assume you're not familiar with things like taqiyya and such.
3.) You're trying to make them less competitive; this is exactly what you were bitching about in #1. At first they become less competitive (or being forced to accept someone having benefits over them due to someone's inability to compete in full force with them), but then it proceeds to kill their desire to be strong. That influences many, many aspects. And when it comes down to physically defending a country (in case of real invasion), there's very little women can do. Sissified men won't be able to either.
@Eugene 1.) How is it equal treatment if I'm getting treated differently for having the same characteristics as a man?
2.) Yes, I am a leftist and liberal. However, not everything I know about Islam comes from liberals, a few friends and acquaintances. I actually am familiar with taqiya. It's a form of protection granted in Islam, where an individual is allowed to deny his faith or commit otherwise illegal (in regards to his faith, not the law) acts while he or she is in fear or at risk of significant persecution. It's practiced mainly in Shi'a Islam, though a few Sunni Faqihs accept it, such as Shafi'i and Hasan al-Barsi, though is Sunni it's only is barely permitted.
@Eugene 3.) I'm not trying to make them less competitive, I'm trying to level the playing field so that we're all starting at the same level. It's not that I want to jack the women up higher than the men, but I want it so that we start in the same place. I don't see how it's going to kill their desire to be strong, especially because it hasn't killed it in women, at least the ones I'm aware of, except in situations where it's drilled into them the they're inferior and should not even try. And when it comes down to physically defending a country there's very lot women can do, as well as the sissified men you are determined exist due to feminism.
@FallOutBoy2001
1.) No, you get the same pressure and shit, just via different methods. And you don't like it.
2.) It's slightly incorrect: it allows muslims to lie virtually about anything to infidels, as long as it benefits islam. Goal of islam is to establish sharia law across the Earth. Just because they don't terrorize you right now, doesn't mean they don't make "donations" at their mosque that is later sent to actual terrorists.
3.) You ARE at the same starting level; what you want is having another, more dominant (by nature) sex, to play with one hand tied behind their back so that you can keep up ;) If you disagree with it, I'm telling you again: name me at least 1 restriction that applies on a legal level instead of your personal emotions and whatnot.
@Eugene
1.) the difference is is that women get pressure for things that are good in the business world, at least in men. The men get pressure for other things, not things that are good in the business world, like having the confidence to ask for a raise, or the boldness to make financial decisions for their company and follow through with them.
2.) No, according to their law, it is only allows them to lie in cases that would result in severe persecution, such as death. It does not allow muslims to lie virtually about anything to infidels, for the benefit of Islam. Their goal is not to establish sharia law across the Earth, and it's really sad you believe that. It's like saying that all Christians support the Westboro Baptist Church and think exactly like them. If you're referring the the Islamic State, it's looked down on by most Muslims, because they're the extremists. They're like the KKK was to Christians, it's a disgrace and they wish it never existed.
@Eugene 3.) We are not at the same starting level, we are at a disadvantage not because of anything legal, but because, due to what society views as masculine and feminine, women who exhibit traits that are good in business, and happen to be masculine, are viewed differently, often negatively, from men who exhibit the exact same traits.
@FallOutBoy2001
1.) So again it comes down to your emotions that prevents you from acting or keeping up with the pressure. So fuck men, they can get pressured all along, but treat me nicely, that's your approach.
2.) Actually my definition is right. You may want to read what ex-muslim says: nocompulsion.com/.../
Or your leftists know islam better than former muslims?
3.) So again, you struggle exclusively due to your personal emotional bullshit and not because conditions for a start aren't equal.
I think you're either stupid and/or in denial.
@Eugene 1.) no, I'm not upset I'm getting pressure. I'm upset that I'n getting pressure for things that are good, not mistakes or things I've done wrong. I will happily have pressure applied for things I've done wrong.
2.) I will concede to you that as neither of us are Muslims, neither of us for certain knows what the religion truly is about. For all I know, my friends are lying to my face. For all you know, that guy is lying or over-exaggerating his point of view.
3.) it's not my emotions, but the view of others, whether or not they're aware of it. So yes, it's emotions, but emotions held by you and others
@FallOutBoy2001
1.) So men get pressured for whatever reason with whatever methods (quite often having nothing to do with their actual job performance), but oh poor little thing wants equality, but without having to go through shit. Hilarious.
2.) It's written by a woman. As for religion, majority of their bullshit is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what it says about non-muslims. And the way it classifies non-muslims should terrify your pseudo-feminist nature.
3.) So I return to my original point: there's literally nothing on a legal level that prevents you from achieving something. Your entire problem is that you're incompetent, have weak morale, your emotions get in the way and you exhibit some weird and twisted "Napoleon complex". And you want to achieve it not via determination, but bitching.
Now I don't think you're stupid and/or in denial. Now I just know it.
@FallOutBoy2001 - This has gone on waaaaaay too long. I have let you tow argue your positions, but if you cannot see that Eugene is twisting history, your opinions, and common sense in general, you are not thinking. Additionally the owner of this opinion has asked that you stop so that she does not keep getting notifications to her opinion. I have blocked Eugene and ask that you refrain from any more posts on this opinion or I will see a need to block you , also. Thank you.
Ok, I will stop. I apologize, as I did not notice that she wanted us to stop, looking back, I simply thought she was commenting on the amount of messages. I tend to need for people to tell me "ok you need to stop" so thank you for doing that. I just don't know how to end arguments no matter how stupid the person is
@FallOutBoy2001 - I can be the same way (and for the same reason, lol) You were courteous and held your temper very well given what was being said. Don't worry about anything. Have a very Happy New Year!
I swim with a bunch of idiots, and I'm bullied, so I'm used to hold my temper in the face of sheer stupidity. Happy New Years to you too!
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 Sorry for butting in and being rude but I found an old mine of gold.
Quickly! Shut down the debate. Shut him up in the middle of it! Anyone with a dissenting opinion will receive the almighty ban hammer. Shoo!
This made my day. I cried ☺️
@rose004b hahaha I'm okay with people expressing opinions but eugene never stops XD and the notifications were killing me
This post is old so I'll stop commenting after this. However:
- You complained but you didn't use the Ban Hammer.
- I thought that myTake owners wanted to have a discussion or would at least allow it.
- It takes 2 to tango (but let's only get rid of the bothersome one, huhuhu).
Lmfao.
@rose004b - "You complained but you didn't use the Ban Hammer. "
"Quickly! Shut down the debate. Shut him up in the middle of it! Anyone with a dissenting opinion will receive the almighty ban hammer."
Make up your mind. I didn't use the "Ban Hammer" or I did.
"I thought that myTake owners wanted to have a discussion or would at least allow it."
This "discussion" went on and on. You are an idiot if you can scroll down and down through this and say I did not allow discussion. It had long ago passed the idiocy stage. I certainly did not "quickly shut down the debate".
"It takes 2 to tango (but let's only get rid of the bothersome one, huhuhu)." Eugene ha a history of being ridiculous, which is his right to a point, but he was not listening to reason here and was killing this discussion, and causing problem to the owner of this opinion. I blocked him out and warned the other participant that I would block her if she did not stop.
@rose004b - Months after the last comment and peace finally exists, you show up with "Sorry for butting in and being rude" I have no idea why you showed up and made these ridiculous statements, but it is obvious you are NOT sorry for being rude. If you want to create more dissent, then post your own myTake.
For clarification: using the Ban Hammer = blocking.
2 people were having a debate and you unilaterally decided to play the role of arbitrator. Have you ever heard of free speech? You killed the discussion and tried to justify it with poor excuses.
What I said previously still applies.
Of course I'm not sorry for making fun of censure (I thought the sarcasm was blatant). It's hilarious to see people block someone during a political debate because they disagree with them or just to shut them up.
@Red_Arrow I'm not interested in raging with you so you can have the final word. I'm out.
*I'm not interested in arguing with you
@rose004b lol yeah, I'd never block someone while arguing, but I see arguing as something pointless, no one will agree with the other because they have different views, and that's fine by me, if I can't make them change their minds... fine, variety is what makes the world interesting.
I was annoyed by this whole thing being done in my fucking post, I hate notifications so much and Eugene knows it. I didn't want to shut him up, but he's stubborn as fuck lol
Rush Limbaugh says it's dangerous!
https://i57.tinypic.com/wjuhk7.jpg
https://i59.tinypic.com/sy76s3.jpg
oh my god im laughing so hard *Ahem*
I will be watching for more. Rush is so intelligent and fair!
*Googles "Feminist Victims fund"*
0.0
FFS
It's actually there.
@Riverock Of course: Rush is so intelligent and fair! ROFLMAO
I don't listen to his show, but the few times I heard bits and pieces it's clear he uses satire just like The Daily Show or the Colbert Report
@rjroy3 - I have listened to more than just bits and pieces (till I got too sick to listen to more) He goes far beyond satire. He makes up "facts" instead of satirizing them.
Two words: SCUM Manifesto.
There goes your argument.
"I’ve always wanted to see a man beaten to a shit bloody pulp with a high-heeled shoe stuffed up his mouth, sort of the pig with the apple; it would be good to put him on a serving plate but you’d need good silver." - Andrea Dworkin, Feminists' favourite woman.
Looked her up. Did not find that quote, but found that she had been raped at least twice by strangers and suffered domestic abuse. Her fight was against pornography and rape. A quote I did find is "My hatred is geared towards the men that put that crap in their heads, and the ones doing the raping.” I cannot fault her for hating those men considering what she went through. Do I see you saying that the men who raped her personally were bad? No, just her for fighting back against porn and rape. You make no argument here against feminists.