I am a liberal, and I might vote for Trump (Page 2)
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An interesting essay on this: "Donald Trump Is Shocking, Vulgar, and Right (And, my dear fellow Republicans, he's all your fault.)"
Written by a Republican, but arguing that *both* parties' Establishments stopped listening to the people, and the rise of "The Donald" is the backlash:
land-of-fruits-and-nuts.blogspot.com/.../...d.html
Well, the Democratic establishment hates their base. They think they are annoying, inconvenient pissants. The Republican establishment fears their base. We can see that they were right by what's happening with Trump. Meanwhile, the old sheep on the Dem side are lining up for HC.
If you don't like either of them then don't fuckin vote. The idea of voting for someone is just that voting FOR them.
I hate trump, Clinton, Cruz, Rubio. Sanders is cool but your right cause he's not gonna win.
You should do what I'm doing. Fuck voting, and Stock up on canned food and bullets and wait for whoevers apocalypse comes first.
I stated my reasons. It's kind of rude to ignore them.
As far as canned goods, sorry, but I'm not a prepper because I have an IQ higher than 80. I believe in reality.
I love how you think being prepared is unintelligent and relying on establishment like wall street to sustain an economy you can buy groceries in is the smart thing to do.
Im not a doomsday prepper, but I always grab extra nonperishables and ammo on my way to checkout.
Wall street sustaining the economy? I think you are confused. Nobody said that. Wall street is a threat to the economy, and HC is in favor of wall street - that was my point. Buying groceries is for eating. Groceries are not going to stop the corruption and the dropping wages and rising poverty, and all the problems that will create.
That's MY point. Your vote doesn't matter anyway. The only thing to do is get ready and hope you survive either world war 3 started by trump, or the greatER depression started by Clinton.
But whatever,
No, that's childish and not a solution. If it was that bad I'd just move out of the country.
Well look at you. I'm glad you have all the money in the world and can just quit your job, pack up your whole life, and move to a completely different country. But for the rest of us, we don't have that luxury. We live paycheck to paycheck, we have lease contracts, mortgages, cars that aren't paid for, schooling to finish, kids and family.
Childish? It's called life shithead, that's just the way it goes. we pay for everything, and your vote means nothing.
I never said that. I said that if the country became as bad as that, it would be an improvement to start from nothing somewhere else.
Yes, it's childish and stupid to believe buying a lot of groceries and rubbing guns at night would protect you from the "apocalypse". But go ahead and believe whatever cartoon plot you want to believe. Not like anybody can stop you.
Even though I am a conservative, I do agree with some of your points. The main one being that the political parties have way too much "inside control." I believe that Americans are smart enough to make their own choice. Sometimes when it comes to voting, you will have to choose the lesser of two evils.
I actually have exactly the same thought process as you mate.
Get ready for the HC fanboys to call you a sore loser baby. Ironically, since that's Trump's line.
And don't forget her defending a known pedophile and laughing about getting him the best deal possible on phone during her lawyer times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2f13f2awK4People won't care about that. Stop with this. The stuff she admits about enabling and protecting financial fraud is far more devastating.
But if (and he has no chance) but still, if Trump became president. And when he of course screws up literally everything, all the Republicans will say Ohh he's not really one of us. So I don't think the momentum position between political parties stands too strong tbh.
Mock Trump and say he has no chance, same as they did to Ronald Reagan.
And yet Ronald Reagan was the worst precedent ever in the US history - his deregulation caused the income inequality you are suffering from now.
@oracle12c Well, these days people like Obama and HC are to the right of Reagan.
Right or left , here in Europe we have different definitions than you do, so let skip he right and left debate.
Reagan started the slippery slope you have been doing ever since (and neither party have done anything to stop it, regardless of whom the precedent was).
@oracle12c Even if the baselines for right or left are different, where you're from, you must understand the concept of relativity. It's still correct to say that Obama/HillaryC are empirically to the right of Reagan. That's why I'm not going to enable it, any further.
Obama/Hillary C are clearly to the left based on the European political definition of left and right, compared to Reagan, so I can't agree with you.
@oracle12c Which policies did they implement that were to the left of Reagan?
Obamacare for starters...
@oracle12c A Republican plan that Willard Romney implemented.
Sure the republicans are fund of obamacare... right... no point debating any further then, we can agree to disagree.
@oracle12c It's theater to rile up hatred for democrats, to get votes. I thought Europeans were more politically savvy. Republicans like Obamcare much better than a public option, which Obama strongly fought against. Are you denying that Obamacare was a Republican plan in the 90s? Are you denying that Romney signed that that plan in his state as governor? Or were you simply unaware?
I know they constantly complain about the affordable care act and say they want to end it, when they come to power.
@oracle12c They say a lot of bullshit for political theater. That's how theater works.
Bottom line: the republican leaning supreme court upheld Obamacare.
So the US supreme court is not professional enough to actually uphold the constitution, unless there is are political majority in the supreme court in favour?
@oracle12c Sometimes, yes, that's true. Read its history.
Then you need to form a new constitution and introduce real democracy.
The court must be non political and simply uphold existing laws (and so must the police), or you won't have a democratic state at all.
@oracle12c We'll get right on that. We are also going to do only Good Thingsâ„¢, not Bad things.
The Establishment hates Trump and Sanders. Sanders won't win, not with the Super Delegates. Trump will be the only one not controlled by the Establishment and he will be a bull in a china shop as far as the Establishment is concerned which is why I support him... smash the establishment!
Might, not will. He might also be worse than the establishment. But the establishment is a certain thing, as far as being a disaster.
True. But something has to change. I believe he will bring jobs through revised trade deals though... it is about jobs, jobs, jobs to many people.
I really have no confidence in Trump. I see him more as a destructive catalyst to promote more public interest in politics. Like when there is a forest fire, sometimes more fires are started in its path, to stop its advance.
Most other countries see him as a joke and genuinely thought it was satire when he first started running. The comments he has come out with, again, were thought to be satire or just purely made up to slander him til he confirmed it was true.
Not being rude or anything, but things like this are part of the reason people think America is backwards. It's one of the most backwards advanced countries.
But this is more about Hillary Clinton than Trump.
It's sad that we are backwards yet we dominate the world, how does that work?
@Electronica No proportional market competition after WW2.
Because we made it so, we built back up Europe and Japan. Both only exist because we gave you the money to rebuild.
@Electronica What do you mean "you"? I'm not European or Japanese. And, yes, that was my point. But it wasn't about the money. Money is a fictional asset. The bottom line is that the industrialized world got destroyed by WW2, and so the US steps in to get wealthy. Also, the leftist policies after WW2 boomed the middle class and the productivity.
Course it will. It's a public debt now. There's nothing to bail out the next crisis when it comes. The dollars over inflated to the point it worthless. Clinton will just keep the sun shining long enough for the corporations to wring out every last shred of profit before the economy collapses forever.
As a European I can hardly say I am not in favour of Bernie Sanders since he basically wants a more European like America.
However, I DO NOT want Trump to be the leader of the free world, and Europe is on its knees because of the emigrant crisis, we will not step up to meet the challenge and say no to Trump.
So, if not for you sake, then for ours please elect Hillary instead, if for nothing else then for her foreign policy.
Her foreign policy is bubkus. Her rhetoric sounds nice, but which results does she have to show for it? The creation of ISIS? She supported the Iraq and Libya wars. Aren't you tired of liars, or are sweet lies good enough for you? And Trump is likely only ranting about immigration because it gets him support. I will only vote for her if anyone but Trump is the nominee, since they are the same as her, but worse.
All politicians are liars by definition, show me the politician who do not lie and I'll show you a looser... you won't come to power without lying.
Hillary sucks (but obviously not her husband) I agree, but supporting Trump is like saying, I'll rather have the most power nation in the world lead by a selfish demagogue (learning how to be a demagogue by studying Hitler and Mussolini), rather than having a selfish but let's play safe individual.
Hitler didn't not save German, although he liked Trump was not part of the establishment.
Some times a guaranteed small failure is better, than risking total catastrophe or slight change for the better.
Trust me, Trump doesn't not have your interests at hart, he's a rich bastard wanting to preserve the rich privileges in your country. He is simply bullshitting you all to get into power, no knows what he really want to do once in power.
He will deceive you all.
Don't put words in my mouth. I have very clearly and repeatedly said why I oppose HC. It's not because she's "selfish". I believe her flaws are especially dangerous, and I have explained my rationale.
Her foreign policy of sitting on her ass? Or her foreign policy of "not reading" declarations of war, before approving them?
@genuinlysensitive
I prefer foreign policy of sitting on her ass, rather than get us all engaged in yet another war - if only the US did all wars on your own then ok, but we are participating ever time and that suck - of course I have to blame my government for that.
Declarations of war is not issued by the president of the US but by the congress, as an American you should know this.
I was reffering to the Iraq War which she voted for but then admitted she didn't read it, "Oops we invaded Iraq again. But I didn't read it before signing it as president, so it doesmr count lmao."
@genuinlysensitive
I don't claim Hillary doesn't suck, but I am saying with Trump you don't know what you are getting - except of course dishonesty and deception, something he have proven to you already.
Dishonesty and deception? So is that supposed to separate him from HC, or am I missing something?
Nope Hillary is of course also dishonest and deceptive, but she is safe.
Trump is a rocket, it can hit anything and do much harm, you simply don't know what you will be getting with Trump - how about foreign relations, are you willing to gamble with our alliance?
"Nope Hillary is of course also dishonest and deceptive, but she is safe."
Most Orwellian statement of the day.
I disagree, Trump is the Orwellian here.
Great. Then keep on believing that enabling mass economic fraud is "safe".
Of course it's not safe, HC is safe because we now we she is and how to buy her so to speak.
Trump is free and that could be good or very bad, he is an unknown and that could be very dangerous. A bastard we know, can be safer than any unknown.
omg, did you just say you're going to buy HC? Good luck with that.
I'd rather take an independent loon than an organized cabal. But I guess in your world, an organized cabal makes more sense.
HC is bought by lobbyists you must know that, so her policy is fixed, she won't do anything rash.
Yes, she will. We are already doing something rash, right now, by doing nothing to ban mass financial fraud. Voting for enablers and protectors of mass financial fraud is beyond rash.
Doing nothing is not rash, it's business as usual or status quo.
Trump is not going to ban mass financial fraud, he makes money on it, so don't get your hopes up.
"Doing nothing is not rash, it's business as usual or status quo."
And that is rash. See: 2008 financial collapse (and the poverty and falling wages that followed). I find it obnoxious that some of you people here keep ignoring this with one liners, so you can write an essay about the Trump boogeyman.
Sure vote for Trump then, he won't be what you hope for.
What do I hope for? You must know me pretty well.
You hope he will make people hate him so much, they vote for some left wing in the next election correct?
My intentions are more about blacklisting than whitelisting. I don't expect any specific thing, other than whatever consequence comes from punishing the DNC for their brazen corruption, and to destroy the RNC with Trump. The possibility of running a real progressive in 2020, as opposed to 2024, is the second phase.
I don't believe that will ever happen, if Trump destroy the RNC, then a real neutral will run in 2020 instead of a progressive - of course we are both guessing now, we can't possible know.
It's not guessing. It's called a hypothesis, an educated guess. I'm basing my opinion based on what I know of the party politics. The RNC is not fighting tooth and nail against Trump because it's a hobby. They know he's an existential threat to their corrupt little club.
Good luck with Trump as president, you'll need it. How about Sarah Palin as vice-president, it would be a fun combo, we could call them beauty and the beast.
I hope for you sake, the cure isn't going to be worse then the illness.
Good luck, regardless, Trump or HC, but HC is approved by the club. This keeps getting repeated, so this is about time 1034 on this take.
Don't start crying over Trump, just yet. Even with all the crap surrounding HC, and the intense hatred for her candidacy, Trump is still not likely to get anywhere near a win. HC has been coronated by the establishment, and the herd of voters have gone along with it, per their farmers' branding.
TRUMP IS A WASHINGTON INSIDER. He's voted for and has been a donor For wall street establishment democrats and republicans (Romney, Clinton) in the past. He knows and has relationships with politicians in Washington and wallstreet. With Trump and Clinton being the nominees, WE ARE FUCKED in America.
Well the democratic retards should have voted for Sanders, but they proved to be as bad, if not worse than double Bush voters.
Voting for Trump is like having no cancer but asking chemotherapy when having a headache because one hates Aspirine.
Oh, no. HC is cancer.
this!
@vishna that!
I feel like at least with Trump we'd know what we were getting
Well he doesn't hide being a loudmouth know-nothing. But the key thing is that he doesn't seem to have people pulling his strings, unlike HC.
I think trump has been less clear than any candidate. Just in this campaign he has had completely opposite opinions on healthcare, rounding up immigrants, banning muslims and so on. The only thing I can say he has been consistent on is building a wall, and saying were going to win again
You do know that Trump and Hillary have been friends forever right?
Trump endorsed Hillary back in 08 election.
Hillary was at Trumps most recent wedding!
Yes, I do know. That doesn't help either one of them.
Well Trump had a lot of politicians in his pocket, she was just one of them.
There is a good answer from Trump on that:
"... almost nobody in Washington caught the significance of Trump’s finest moment in the first debate. One of the moderators asked, in effect: if you’re so opposed to Hillary Clinton, why did she come to your last wedding? It seemed like a revealing, even devastating question.
Trump’s response, delivered without pause or embarrassment: Because I paid her to be there. As if she was the wedding singer, or in charge of the catering.
Even then, I’ll confess, I didn’t get it. (Why would you pay someone to come to your wedding?) But the audience did. Trump is the ideal candidate to fight Washington corruption not simply because he opposes it, but because he has personally participated in it. He’s not just a reformer; like most effective populists, he’s a whistleblower, a traitor to his class... Anyone can peer through the window in envy. It takes a real man to throw furniture through it from the inside."
It sure looks very bleak for you Americans.
Racist oompa loompa, corrupted bitch, tired old man with a miserable track record and a bunch of clowns who don't even look confident in what the hell they are doing there in the first place.
Let's just hope Good Ol' Bernie gets this. Between the devil and the deep blue sea here, buddy.
For sure. The people afraid of Trump best hope that Bernie gets the nom. Even if people like me abstained from voting, Trump still has a very good chance of schmoozing the public into beating HC.
Yeah, I know. It concerns me.
No, Never vote for trump, he's a con-artist, he has said stuff about the government doesn't have enough control, and makes fun of people all the time, he's like a 5 year old on stage
The entire establishment is a con.
Not really, I've watched all of the debates, it's not a con it's people giving there points about why they should be the next President of the United States, but my vote (If I was 18) is for John Kasich
Kasich the anti-choice hyper conservative? Not for me. It's not surprising that you are 16, if you actually believe what these con artists are saying. They have no proof behind their words. Only Bernie Sanders has some kind of proof that he intends to do what he says.
John Kasich has all the proof in Ohio, and Kasich is the 2nd least conservative Republic the least being Trump, and he has gotten results as the governor, and Marco Rubio is in favor of the TPP, and the TPP isn't a good thing, I've done research on the TPP , and it would make a large amount of everyday people criminals
You're right. Kasich has the proof in trying an effective ban on abortion in Ohio.
Yeah, murdering babies that didn't choose to make the girl pregnant is wrong, and that wasn't what I was talking about and you know it
He's taken no other action.
Whatever if you don't know what he's done you don't know enough about Ohio, and all I was trying to do is explain to you the danger Donald Trump poses to our country, but I guess I didn't say enough, the Wall he wants to build will take crap tons of money, his economic plan will probably make our country one of the poorest, because he's basically lowering the amount of trade between other countries and us, and there's more I can list
I know all the important things about Kasich. He is anti-choice and tries to take credit for whatever economic improvements were seen. Trump talks about his nuttiness, while someone like Kasich has done it.
I knew some Bernie voters would switch over to Trump.
Believe it or not, Trump has actually criticized Wall Street on a few occasions so he may still have qualities you like.
It's true that he has said he would support a public option, and he has ostensibly criticized the general state of cronyism. I don't necessarily believe what he says, but I might be willing to reward his circus act, and to punish those on record as being against them, or flip-flopping on them.
Yeah but he's actually a big time investor so he's really more pro wallstreet than he leads on to believe He's just like Clinton. I can't believe that people don't realize that you can still be establishment without being a politician. He also thinks the minimum wage is too high which is the dumbest thing I ever heard.
@EvilPimp He's a joker, for sure, but one thing is certain: both the RNC and the DNC hate his guts. If Bernie loses, we're at the point where damaging these cabals is worth almost anything.
Cool, I respect that idea actually, except I don't want a "real progressive" to win either. I don't want a state at all :D
Ok, but fantasism doesn't have much to do with my take.
No idea what you mean :D
A society with no government is fantasy.
If people keep saying that as an excuse for trying to achieve it, then sure
That statement doesn't even make sense.
I could never stand behind a man who retweets white supremacists, quotes Mussolini and revels in violence at his rallies.
I'm not standing behind him. I'm standing against the other side, which I consider more harmful. He's just a rabid dog.
You don't let a wild dog loose among foreign diplomats. What are we, Russia?
Hopefully, the rest of the government can pile on him if he tries anything crazy. With Hillary, the rest of the system is in agreement with her enabling fraud.