The 'Meh' of ANOTHER American Gun Massacre

[gobsmacked3]

'You reap the seeds you sow....'

After feeling sympathy for the 50 innocent lives lost and the associated devastation of their immediate friends and family, this is my immediate reaction.

Once more America's perverse views on guns and gun laws ridiculing them on a Global scene with everything centring around the Constitutional right to bare arms'

Not even the #SandyHook massacre where innocent children were slain can challenge the mindset. Instead, it reinforced it with calls to arm teachers and have security staff at schools with the predominant reaction being you need more weapons to deal with the threat.

Compare this to a contrary ideology over guns in Australia in response to the #PortArthur massacre of 1996. It shocked the Nation to the core leading to all automatic and semi-automatic weapons banned. One of the indelible I witness accounts was a mother and her two young daughters on knees begging for mercy and the gunman, Martin Bryant executing them all point blank.

Across the populace and political spectrum, there was outrage leading to more stringent #gunlaws and the public willingly giving up their weapons (pictured above ). It was not just many weapons destroyed through a government buyback but also more strict laws and background checks put in place to get a licence or purchase weapons with no massacres happening since.

The reality in the States is you can 'Rambo-up' as easy as I can buy milk from the corner store and despite what tragedy ensues it just reinforces the love for guns.

In the process making massacres inevitable.

If you want proof, consider this surreal fact:

Between the Sandy Hook tragedy of 2012 and the San Bernadino massacre of December 2015, there were 1052 slayings in the 1066 adjoining days.

It's as if they are embracing the Dickens ethos from 'A Christmas Carol' of 'ridding of the surplus masses.'

The aside from this recent tragedy is many references made to the perpetrators supposed #Muslim links. Allowing the focus to come off the lapse gun laws and instead drumming up further terrorist hysteria in the public through the irresponsible Media.

With it an election campaign in full throttle, it is not hard to do the math that both Trump and Clinton will embrace the art of deflection. Drumming up hysteria of the #terrorist threat' and #ISIS' to divert away from the gun issue in the States. Neither are going to commit electoral suicide by alienating the huge gun lobby in the States with its financial and voting might by using this current massacre to discuss gun controls.

One could even imagine a savvy predatorial manipulator like Trump delivering a decisive electoral blow by dressing like 'Yosemite Sam' with the most advanced automatic pistols in toe.....

[QuestionMan]

The full quote by Trump is:
"Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don't want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!"

I can't believe people don't get this. He's the only one speaking out against radical Islamic terrorism. He doesn't want praise for it he wants results. He wants this needless violence to stop.

Now that the propaganda is put of the way here's my response:

The guy was already on a watch list and was abusive to his wife. That alone should've stopped him from getting a gun.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" it doesn't matter with what.
The solution isn't to take away guns or put heavy restrictions, it's to empower law abiding citizens by giving them the right to bare arms and spending more money on mental health.

In Tel Aviv there was a shooting recently. You'd think in Israel of all places people would be allowed to conceal carry. They aren't and that is why when some crazy Hamas supporter shoots up a restaurant there are so many casualties.

The police can't be everywhere, and people need to be able to protect themselves.

[Curmudgeon]

Oh they get it all right. They just have a worldview that only "white Christian cisgendered males" are to blame, and they can't accept that their "multicultural" delusions are a farce.

[justbanANNAz]

THANK YOU. the way people defend guns is ridiculous. "guns dont kill, humans do" i mean WHAT THE FUCK is that?
how many more deaths is it going to take for people to realise that it needs to stop?

[Dionysos]

It does need to stop. Gun control kills.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

@Phoenix98 basically said all the stuff I wanted to tell you earlier. The only thing I was going to add was that the media is part of the problem. We get things news half way across the world in minutes so what we are exposed to seems way worse. For example, take the 1950s America. Seen as the pinnacle of American culture. That was great until you remember the Korean war, Vietnam war, constant air raid drills, absolute hell for minorities and women, etc. But we have this fanaticism of how we view history. Also, the media loves to pick and choose. I find this entire thing ironically hilarious. A few weeks ago, they were uppity about the fucking gorilla dying. Yet no one said shit about the 68 shootings that occurred in the south side of Chicago (notoriously dangerous area). But save the animals! This popcorn media is a farce. Next week, this won't be a thing. I promise you. People want change, but don't really care enough and that's what people should really be mad about. It's sad to me

[Dionysos]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau
Chicago, for the record, has some of the strictest gun laws in America.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

@Dionysos but the gang violence kinda negates that. It's more of that than "random incidences" like the thing in Orlando or Aurora. But the dude I mentioned articulated most of the points I would've mentioned

[Dionysos]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau
The fact that gang violence flourishes where people can't defend themselves IS the point.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

@Dionysos gang violence happens more in impoverished areas than in "defenseless" areas. You're right on the sense that it's true in the case for Chicago, but they aren't mutually exclusive, either. It's correlation and not causation in your instance

[Dionysos]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau

So people attacking where their victims are unable to respond is just coincidence. OK. Riiiiight.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

@Dionysos again, is correlation vs causation. There are plenty of less regulated areas with gang problems. It just so happens that Chicago happens to be more strictly regulated. It's always had a gun problem. I agree that creating soft targets heightens the amount of violence. But deregulating gun laws in Chicago won't do anything to lessen the violence. 80% of homicides in the country are gang related and at least 75% minimum are gang on gang violence. That's still leaves at the very least 60% of all gun incidences among gangs, specifically. Not gangs vs random people, let alone mass shootings. Less strict gun laws won't solve the problem. Don't play stupid. Like I said, I'm pro 2nd amendment rights, but there's a deeper issue or solutions not being addressed and the sad part is that no one wants to tackle those problems

[Dionysos]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau

You're flat wrong. Where you create a pile of disarmed victims, that's where bad guys attack.

Gun free zones and mass shootings. It's only a 98% correlation according to the FBI. No possibility that's a contributing factor either I suppose.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

@Dionysos we aren't even arguing the same thing. I was bringing up the fact that Chicago had 68 victims of shootings and people were donated on a fucking gorilla. That was my point. And what am I wrong about? Like for the fucking 12th time, I said that more strict gun laws lead to higher violence. But I also stated that gang violence has nothing to do with the level of gun control. There might be a correlation in many instances, but it's not a causation. To debate that it's more of a factor than the environment, which are almost always in impoverished areas is absolutely fucking ludicrous. Like I said, I'm for 2nd amendment rights, but you are 1 of the prime examples why I actually sympathize with people like op. I'd at least like to think people are "for guns" (whatever you wanna take from that) have a decent perspective, but then I forget I'm also bundling myself with a bunch of morons 😑

[Dionysos]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau
The gorilla is a non issue. Your dismissal of gun control as a significant contributing factor to violence is what bothers me.

Case in point. If one of the Orlando victims had pulled out a gun and stopped the shooter, rather than having hours to murder people, he would have had minutes or seconds.

Much less violence. Many lives saved.

But that was prohibited by gun control laws saying no guns in bars.

That law cost lives.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

@Dionysos don't comment on my opinion of you're not gonna read it. Discussion over

[justbanANNAz]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau @Dionysos
i never wanna talk about guns or American law on here again. it's useless.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

You're useless! Jk! Jk. Sorry for highjacking and blowing up your notifications 😂

[NotSoGrimReaper]

you know that those who want to break the law can make guns and get them through other illegal means. you can't stop someone who cares noting for the laws already in place.

[Phoenix98]

And what you foreigners, especially Australians need to understand is this.

"Hurr, if Australia banned guns and it worked, why wouldn't it work here?"

Simple, because America is NOT the same as Australia, it never will be, the people are not the same, the culture is not the same, the country is not the same, the goverment is not the same. Nothing is the same, what works for you is not going to work here.

And *gasp* guess what? it's almost predictable but the shooting happened in another gun free zone were weapons are banned gosh and why is that? hmm well if I was a criminal the first place I would go to murder a bunch of people would be a zone were all forms of weapon oriented self defense were banned. Because obviously a sign in a window or on a website that says gun free zone or city is obviously going to make me turn away because I'm a criminal following the laws is what I do best.

https://youtu.be/oeAy0aQxxOU

And of course I could post dozens if not a hundred examples of gun saving innocent lives from young people to senior citizens. But I mean what would it matter to you people? all you care about is crying about the issue while your in a country on the other side of the planet.

If your so concerned about it then get your ass down here and do something about it instead of crying about it online and trying to impose your own views on us and change our laws when you don't even live here to begin with if you don't live here then keep your nose out of it. You want the right to complain about it, to change it then live here, otherwise keep your mouths shut.

You wouldn't like it if every time something happened in your country that you supported, we got online and posted our hatred for it and how we wish to change your country, you cultural and how you live even though it doesn't affect us, simply because we don't like it.

And by the way if we're such a violent nation then it obviously makes total sense to rip away law abiding citizens ability to protect themselves and their families when criminals don't buy guns legally anyway. Because you know when the seconds count the police are only minutes away.

[Phoenix98]

https://youtu.be/fmsvDZdmyf8

[AlisonAlice_BeCool]

Your opinions always so good and right , you are one of the wise man here, thank you for typed a lot of words for this take.

[Phoenix98]

@AlisonAlice_BeCool Thank you glad someone thinks so.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

This is all the shit I wanna say, but too lazy to articulate 😂

[Phoenix98]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau lol well feel free to use it t make your point.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

Lol! I already did 😂👌

[Phoenix98]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau Awesome lol.

[Phoenix98]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau By the way you should check out my take about guns it's like this but way more in depth and pretty sound arguments. Way better then this and actually response to these kinds of takes and questions.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

I might. I just don't really care about this issue cause it's another "controversial" from people who just like arguing and have virtually no idea what they're talking about. Most people spit the same rhetoric and bring nothing insightful to the discussion

[Phoenix98]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau Well this is not that, I was very careful to choose calm people with actual points, statistics and information as well as plenty of examples among other things. There even a segment about how the media is partly the problem by turning these killers into celebrities, It's done respectful and unlike this take I have received so far nothing but respectful comments.

I mean up to you but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

You're awesome. I've been going on the media about this as well. You're the only other person who has even sniffed at that angle. I'll check it out cause I get bored from reading 1000 questions and takes pile this and people saying the same exact thing. At this point, it's pointless. I'll check it out

[Phoenix98]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau Thanks man and yeah it is part of the issue but people seem so focused on the object that they don't want to see that the media plays a big part of it I mean if I was a nobody who nobody knew existed and didn't pay attention to, if I wanted attention and to go out with a bang, to be on national news and have my face and name known throughout the world then a mass shooting is what I would do. Let us let these killers die how they lived as nobodies, seen and noticed by few.

And yeah it really is all these people care about is the gun the gun but they don't pay attention to any of the other causes and factors like how most if not all of these killers responsible for mass shootings were fatherless and had no male role model or attention growing up. Could that be a cause? maybe but we'll never know because we only focus on the gun.

and awesome look forward to your comment.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

Take a look at what I wrote under justbamnaz's opinion. Just the 1st one, though

[Phoenix98]

@Other_Tommy_Wiseau Yeah I did a while ago it's a good opinion with valid points.

[hellionthesage]

Yeah the reason why people take the stance that they do is because blaming guns is so illogical and narrow minded. First if you look the places with the most guns actually have less violence, those areas that do experience violence are due to other factors, the majority of those being gang related ie it has nothing to do with owning a gun that magicly makes you want to shoot people but rather by being violent that makes you want to shoot people. So saying its the guns fault is incredibly stupid. Now look at england and look at australia, has it reduced gun violence? Well in england, an island nation of 63 million people or so it did reduce gun violence and they have some of the strictest gun laws, however it didn't stop mass killings, it didn't stop the violence and considering that trying to apply the same policy in America a nation of 300 million with very large boarders and country sides that make smuggling in guns (and drugs) incredibly easy it would be near impossible. That compounded by the fact it doesn't remove the gangs which are the source of most violent shootings nor the hostility and drug trade that fuels them. Look at australia, has it helped? Well not really according to reports gun violence, that is intentional violence really wasn't all that affected by their mass confiscation: truthinmedia.com/.../
So in fact its a feel good solution, that is to say a solution that makes you feel like you have accomplished something when in fact you have simply wasted time and resources brushing the real problems under the rug. So thats why we have that view, it reduced the problem in england but did not get rid of it but even then its not applicable for america because of country differences both in size of boarders, which we can't patrol already and large empty spaces ranging most of the country which also can't be patroled something england doesn't really have, and australia that really didn't see much of a change either, according to studies done by those in australia. So yeah guns don't kill people, people kill people. You want to stop violence figure out why people wish to commit it, for instance school shootings are due to the kids feeling helpless because they are encouraged never to defend themselves, ironicly the solution to violence in these situations is violence, let them defend themselves and then they will not seek out guns in an attempt to feel like they have control. See? solutions not bullshit will resolve the issues.

[SwoopingHawk]

You want the real numbers? The FBI Numbers. You are more likely to fall off a friggin' ladder than be killed by any sort of gun. Let's look at 2013, most recent FBI numbers I can get. 285 murders with rifles. 285. There were a total of 8,454 murders with guns. But right now I wanna talk about rifles. Big, scary AR-15. They killed 285 people in 2013. For comparison's sake, there were 428 murders with blunt objects like hammers and baseball bats, and 687 instances of people being beaten to death. Now, let's head over to the CDC. In 2013, 31,240 people were killed by falling. The rifle deaths are a small fraction of the deaths from someone losing their balance. You're going to tell me that that's worth stripping a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms? AR-15 style weapons are important tools for resisting federal overreach, as well as for home defense. An AR-15 has very little recoil and muzzle climb, as well as being light. That's what makes it so popular. It's an easy to handle weapon that allows petite women to take on burly home invaders, as an example.

And you say it's so easy to buy an "assault rifle", then do it. I promise you, there's background checks and paperwork aplenty. Yes, there are already background checks. Also, these weapons are not the machine guns you seem to be envisioning. To own a machine gun in the U. S, you need a class III license, which involves extensive background checks which can take over a year. A civilian AR-15 is semi-automatic. You pull the trigger once and one bullet comes out. Even a revolver is functionally semi-automatic (not technically, but it works as such). Only military rifles are capable of automatic fire.

As to the UK's low murder rate (which you passed on), two points. The UK only counts solved murders in their crime statistics, fun fact. Also, according to the BBC, gun crime ROSE 40% after the 2001 handgun ban.

I would also like to state that "well regulated" was a common expression meaning properly functioning when the Bill of Rights was written, a well regulated militia was one that could wage war. Also, muskets *were* weapons of war in the 18th century, and "assault rifles" did exist. The Lewis and Clarke expedition had a rifle that could fire 20 rounds without reloading.

Don't try to sell our freedom so you can feel good inside. And do yourself a favor and look up the Battle of Athens, Georgia.

Sources:
FBI Expanded Homicide Data Table 8
NVSR v64 n2
BBC Handgun Crime 'Up' Despite Ban

[Rocket_Queen]

So I'm gonna show some of the shady foot trails I've walked with this one, and I'm not proud, but at 17 I ran away and lived with two guys in their 40's getting drugs and guns from Mexico weekly. This was just 2 good ole country boys. I have family from Jerusalem who spent years in prison for bringing and selling guns here. I just met an awesome guy this weekend at a conference who at 17, shot down planes full of guns and cocaine and sold it in America. Spent years in prison and tunred his life around. But the point is these are just a few people, illegal guns are a huge problem in America because they are being flooded into our country from everywhere. We aren't going to stop that. So with that being said, I support the right to bear arms 100%. What the media doesn't show is how many lives are saved by guns. How many times a gun stopped a stituation from turning bad real quick. I've said this I know, but I had a guy try to crawl into my car while I was working a night shift once. No idea what his intentions were, but fortunately I had a gun tucked beside my seat so when I snatched it out and pointed at him he backed out with his hands up. Could have been real bad. A gun is just a tool. Just like the airplanes that flew into our twin towers. Just like the Oklahoma bombing. It's a tool that needs to be respected. And as long as criminals are going to get guns, we the people need the right to have guns and protect ourselves and our families. But I think I've written a novel here lol.

[gobsmacked3]

you are more suited to cuffs and whips rather than guns

[Rocket_Queen]

Aw I like em all 🔗🔫🗡😉

[gobsmacked3]

you+cuffs+whips='s immense joy

[Rocket_Queen]

Hahaha you're trouble! Great minds though...😜

[gobsmacked3]

feel free to collar me anytime you please

[Rocket_Queen]

I'll keep that in mind ; )

[Anonymous]

I will always sit by and wonder when the world will stop complaining about the tools of warfare and start acknowledging the true cause: The philosophy of the people.

Americans are violent. The most popular movies, the most iconic heroes, the most widely enjoyed stories; these are all violent, brutal, and utterly vile characters who do nothing but spread destruction. Rambo for instance you brought up, to think, the term "Rambo-up" could or even should exist. There is no "Hitler-up" because Hitler is not a popular icon, but Rambo? A notorious madman? Movies banned in other countries because of their violent content are shown in American usually welcoming with open arms. Americans are lovers of the grisly underdog, the violent kingpin, the worshippers of corrupt system, the degradation of criminals and losers.

So such is American culture to the point where we make up lies about our own people. The poor are shit. The violent deserve a violent death. The stupid deserve to be put down ("Darwinism in action"). Those who do not believe as we do we show absolutely no tolerance for.

The American is so violent, so disgustingly in love with bloodshed, that no matter what the "shock" the answer is always "War". That's why Terrorism and paranoia work so well in The States, all that is needed is an enemy to point the cannons at, doesn't matter who it is, because the trigger finger is so itchy all the time.

[Ratiocinative]

Yeah, it's sad that 50 people were murdered, but tyrannical governments around the word have murdered ~265,000,000 of their own citizens in the past century. That's roughly 7,150 people every single day for the last 100 years.

Where is the media outrage over all of the fascism and genocide going on around the world?

Where is the media outrage when ISIS burns homosexual alive or throws them into vats of acid to be dissolved alive?

The media and politicians don't care about the lives of the 50 people that died and they certainly don't are about you. They don't care about anyone but themselves. They care about power and getting rid of guns so that the public can't fight back if the government ever went tyrannical like the governments of numerous other countries have.

Guns don't kill people, evil people do. Well mostly Islamic terrorists, but other types of evil people too. Regardless of how many evil people are in the world, it is the right of every person to be able to defend themselves and their loved ones against attackers and against tyrannical governments, and that's why the second amendment exists.

[Dionysos]

I'm sorry, but this is idiotic. I don't expect a foreigner to understand though, especially one in a country that tried and failed to escape British rule so many times. The fear and compliance response is strong there, especially since we got all the ones who had the stones to risk coming here. :-)

But I digress.

This is not a gun crime.

It's a religious one, and America is so we'd to religious tolerance, that we're probably gonna get hit a lot more before we admit what the root of the violence is. His religion.

That a terrorist was able to do this is tragic. Just one, easily recognizable guard for that many people, packed in like fish in a barrel? That's pathetic. Just like leaving schools almost unguarded is.

There will always be dangerous people. A quick decisive response is the only way to stop them. The question is, do you want an imperfect response now, or would you rather wait while the police travel and plan an official imperfect response in half an hour? Meanwhile, he'll be busy being dangerous to you.

Call me crazy, but I'll take an immediate response please.

[Dionysos]

@GingerBear

Since you blocked me, I'll respond here. :-).

If you've got a rational reason why you're safer from attack without the tools to stop the attack I'd like to hear it.

Same goes for how schools are safer guarded by a piece of paper than by trusted trained and armed people.

Also looking for a rational reason why a girl raped and murdered is morally superior to the same girl calling the cops to collect a dead would be rapist.

Last, I'd love to hear a rational reason why disarming people who don't hurt others will make folks who are willing to die to kill them decide not to.

Hint: I doubt you've got those, but I'd love to hear you try.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

How is it that the world is at war with ISIS; a group where you have to convert to being a Muslim to join, and when someone who's screaming allwhoakbar or whatever with not "alleged" but self proclaimed ties with ISIS, confirmed by ISIS. The asshole was yelling at everyone that he was shooting the place up "because of what you have done to my country" And somehow you think the big take-away here is that we don't restrict the public's ability to obtain a gun enough.

Let me tell you something as an American who knows a couple things about the underground. Its relatively easy to obtain guns that are even more deadly than what he used and in some states (I don't know about Florida specifically) would be illegal. In his particular case it was slightly easier to go to a gun store and buy one. Should HE have been able to get one? No But the problem here isn't that gun control here isn't strict enough, the problem is we have Islamic radicals trying to kill everyone who's not one of them.

And worst of all, If you're someone who acknowledges the truth, you are automatically someone who hates all Muslims which is super hypocritical.

[Editor]

This is pure fantasy. Guns are not going away and wishing won't make it so.

Let's pretend there are *laws* that prohibit everyone from owning guns, and that everyone who has guns now destroys them. Do you think criminals will stop committing violent crimes? Will they respect a *law* that tells them to not possess a gun, while they're violating other laws? Will the police, also presumably disarmed, have the ability to protect a population that has become the much easier target for violence? If you think so, you're not really thinking; you're wishing.

The Orlando shooter was a terrorist who targeted random people in a gun-free zone because he wanted to kill as many homosexual people that he could. Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Columbine, and surprisingly, Fort Hood were all gun-free zones. So if you want to stop the mass murder, you have to not only prohibit guns, but also make all guns disappear. To be really sure, also prohibit ownership of screws, nails, and pressure cookers, as was used at the Boston Marathon, and fertilizer, which was used in Oklahoma City.

Once that's done, make sure nobody's mentally ill, and nobody hates anyone enough to kill them. We can rely on the police and FBI, who investigated the Orlando shooter twice and decided he wasn't a threat.

But I think it's best to accept that there are people in the world who are crazy, and there are others who are evil. And it's up to everyone to protect himself as best as he can because this is the real world, not a fantasy.

[bluenose1872]

This is the main problem in america and the west. Individualism. People are more interested in their own personal achievements than doing the right thing. Imagine ignoring massacres, including kids, just to appease a few gun nut voters. Well you dont need to imagine. You watch succesive presidents do just that. The rich have too big a say. Lobbying should be illegal. Campaigns should be paid out of the treasury with regulators and oversights commitees approving nominees. Lying politicians should be impeached amd face charges. Corporations should have no say in politics. Dunblane in scotland seen a massacre in 96 too. 13 little babies blown away by a sick, fat, baldy wanker armed to the teeth. Guns were banned straight away. If your caught with an empty handgun you get an automatic 7 year sentence now. there's never any shootings in scotland now. Youve more chance of getting shot in somewhere like sweden and there's hardly an chance of getting shot there. Time to get rid of the guns. Citizens dont need them in this day n age

[Dionysos]

Come and take em.

Didn't work out for you guys too well last time you tried it.

And orator individualism behind America's refusal to be disarmed. It's acceptance of the fact that nobody can be trusted with a monopoly on force. Nobody. Mother Theresa, with Jesus himself to advise her would turn tyrant.

[bluenose1872]

@Dionysos come and take em jesus. You think the poulation have a fair chance against a government? Your guns dont mean nothing. You need a united population first and you all hate each other. Youve just got well armed individuals who go off their heads sometimes and blow away innocent folk trying to go about their day. The governments been systematically screwing you for decades but I've never seen a politician taking a bullet apart from reagan and jfk. 08 they gave nearly a trillion of your money to the private sector. No bullets flying then either. Bush murdered over 3000 for his war on terror nobody took a shot. Know why? Your bible and your teacher is that glass box in your living room and you all take every word as gospel even though the people that fuck you over daily run it. You all still believe your free and americas great when its plainly fucked. Trillions in public sector debt, no due process or liberty. A prez that enjoys blowing innocents up with drones. Psychoville

[Dionysos]

3 percent of us ran off the British Empire. With muskets.

A few percent foUrsquare just ran us off, and we have the most lethal war machine in the history of mankind. I was there. It works. Trust me. Hoping to hell we'll never be in that situation again, but if it happens I don't want all the guns on the other side. :-)

[Dionysos]

A few percent worth of Iraqi's. WTF autocorrect?

[bluenose1872]

@Dionysos america was just a product of empire wars. The french dutch and Spanish beat the British empire. Look at washington, British captain and he fortified new york against the British. The best navy in the world and he fortifies a town surrounded by water. Genius eh? The wehrmacht were the best war machine the worlds ever seen. Your getting fed propaganda on a daily basis over there. Its all bullshit

[Dionysos]

Um... we beat the Wehrmacht. :-)

[bluenose1872]

@Dionysos half the world beat the wehrmacht. No great achievement. If it wasn't for the weather in russia amd the channel in Europe they would have steamrolled the world flat

[Dionysos]

Hell of a war machine we made, wasn't it? Good enough to smash the nazis. :-)

And today's American forces could defeat Nazi Germany in about an hour. Seriously.

[bluenose1872]

@Dionysos anybodies army could smash the whrmacht these days. They didn't have helicopter or fast jets or any modern tech. The german were proven to be 1 and a half times more combat effective in like for like units than any other army in the world. They were an amazing fighting force. Only weather and a megolomaniac leader who thought he was an expert tactician beat them. The world was lucky

[Anonymous]

A lot of the other countries lie about their gun related murders. Such as not considering it a gun crime unless a conviction has been made. So if someone is shot killed, and they never find the murderer, they get to lie and say that their gun control laws appear to be working within their statistics.

Also people are a lot more likely to be stabbed than shot. So it isn't like the existence of guns is the reason people are dying. If they want to go on a massive killing spree and can't legally get a gun, then they will get one illegally, or just build a bomb. In fact bombs are often more deadly than massive gun shootings.

Do you even have any idea how easy it is to make a gun? Most of us can do that now with crap in our garage. You can even 3D print a gun now. Guns are not going away. Especially when we share a boarder with a third world country that constantly smuggles in illegal merchandise.

It is illegal to buy pot, and legal to buy alcohol. Guess which is easier for a kid to get a hold of. Once you have banned something, you have deregulated it. Once the legal market disappears, it just shows up more often in the black market, making it far more dangerous.

People like to talk about Australia, but what about Switzerland? The fact that Switzerland has so many guns, and has a really low violent crime rate should speak volumes that this isn't about the number of guns people have access to.

[Anonymous]

I really fail to see what's wrong with what Trump said, and of course that quote took out half of what he said.

The full quote is here: twitter.com/.../742034549232766976

"Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don't want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!"

When the tragedy occured he was quick to express his grief and sympathy, here:
twitter.com/.../742019961946791939

"Horrific incident in FL. Praying for all the victims & their families. When will this stop? When will we get tough, smart & vigilant?"

All of you anti-Trump morons fail to see the bigger picture. Trump wants to stand up against modern day radical ISLAMIC terrorism, but instead you're fighting against him and calling him all sorts of nonsense.

You're the ones dividing the US when you should be working together.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Rissyanne]

Couldn't have said it better

[Curmudgeon]

This is because Mr. Trump's harsh truth ruins their "multicultural" delusions.

[Klara-Hitler]

The first role of guns is self-protection.
The most important role of guns is protecting people against the government.

Your kind simply argue that guns are being abused and aren't playing their first role properly, so people have to give them up to an institute that guns' most important role is to protect people from it and from the people in it.

Liberal government hookers of west don't understand this because they haven't ever seen the power of a tyranny.

Good luck staying free with this mindset.

[gobsmacked3]

I grew up in Ireland under the tyranny of the English...

[WombRaider]

Are you an IRA supporter MyTakeOwner?

Are you supporting a group of murdering fiends?

[gobsmacked3]

@WombRaider I grew up in Derry, where many innocent were killed by British soldiers in Bloody Sunday in 1972

So, i have a differing definition to you over 'murdering fiends'

[WombRaider]

So you're not denying it then? You're a terrorist sympathiser?

And I suppose you think the Omagh bombing that killed 31 innocent was justified too?

YOU'RE FROM DERRY AND SUPPORT THE IRA?

[gobsmacked3]

@WombRaider i do not support any act of terrorism, and the fact you are trying to equate growing up in Derry with allegiance the IRA/RIRA tends to point to your ignorance.

But, I will leave you to your attempt at 'trolling'

[WombRaider]

It very much sounds to me that you back the IRA and their acts.

'Trolling'? You're mistaken OR you're intentionally being dismissive because you've been caught out.

Funny how you're from Derry yet you've put 'Ireland' on your profile... interesting.

[Waffles731]

@WombRaider
The British army were just as bad as teh IRA.
There were no heroes on either side

[WombRaider]

@Waffles731

Have I said otherwise?

OP is defending a terrorist organisation responsible for hundreds and hundreds of innocent deaths.

He can rot in hell for all I care.

[Waffles731]

@WombRaider
And the British Government send guns to The protestant terrorist groups

[madhatters4]

i figured after sandy hook that was the best chance for real gun reform to take place... i figured that after seeing the massacre of innocent elementary school children how could anyone not believe that reform needed to occur. so i'm just speechless at this point

i personally am for a more euro style gun ban but would be very happy at least re-establishing the assault rifle ban Clinton put in place that expired in 2004.

personally i find it embarrassing that Americans find ways to defend guns rights time after time incident after incident.

[gobsmacked3]

Sandy hook was the chance, the wake up call that no one could ignore

America chose to do just that.

Which , like you I find inconcievable. As a father and teacher to think how terrified those young kids were in a situation they just could not process. 7/8 year olds having to hear others being slain, seeing others sacrifice and thinking they were next

Pure evil followed up by even more evil ambivalence

[GingerBear]

Yes, accurate, for the most part.
Unfortunately, the USA is too far gone for gun control to work. While we Aussies came to our senses after the first large scale massacre, and the buy-back scheme was implemented, this is not going to work in America. Maybe it would have decades ago, but the sheer number of firearms in the country is going to be almost impossible to decrease. Add in the cultural obsession with guns, and the problem will never be solved.
America will just keep fighting fire with fire, and they'll eventually realise too late that it will end in burns for all.

[Dionysos]

To clarify, it's not an obsession with guns. It's an obsession with freedom, combined with a congenital distrust of big government. It makes us believe (rightly, I think) that the only reason any government has to disarm the good guys is if they're planning to do something they expect will make people mad enough to become dangerous.

[GingerBear]

That is, quite possibly, one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. 'Freedom' does not mean 'able to cart around weapons capable mass murder'.
The only reason needed to take guns away from the 'good guys' is that there will be less deaths. Why the American people can't grasp that concept is beyond me. You may think someone is a 'good guy', so he has access to a large number of firearms. Turns out, he's not such a good guy, and goes on a killing spree, taking out dozens of innocent people.
The biggest problem is that the only thing stopping anyone committing mass murder is whether or not they want to. Another big problem is that America doesn't seem to understand that that's a problem.

[Dionysos]

Ask the Indians if letting our government disarm them made them safer.

It's not easy. Our government exterminated most of them.

The biggest mass shooting in our history was the massacre at Wounded Knee. The perpetrator was the US Government.

Ask George Takei about being put in a concentration camp... by the US government.

Ask American Muslims how safe they'll feel if Trump is elected.

Ask the KKK why it pushed to disarm black Americans.

The point is that while individual monsters are horrific, they're nowhere near as dangerous as a government run amok, and our government, while trying to do what it thinks is the right thing, has a history of running amok.

An armed population provides a check on its power. I will not give up that safety mechanism in exchange for a false sense of security.

[GingerBear]

@Dionysos I'm not sure whether you're willfully ignorant, or you just don't get it. I hope it's the latter, because the former is just concerning.
So you're more worried about the possibility your government will try to commit some sort of mass homicide or rights violation, than you are about the thousands upon thousands of deaths of innocent people already happening, caused by American civilians who use your 'safety mechanism' to murder each other on a mass scale.

Like I said, the problem with America is that you all refuse to acknowledge the problem right in front of you. You ignore the innocent people, including children, that might be alive today if people hadn't had access to the firearms they did, in favour of an imaginary need to defend yourself from a perceived threat from your own government. That's kind of sickening.

[Dionysos]

Being disarmed sure helped the guys in Orlando...

If only he didn't have a rifle...

I mean it's not like he could have used a car bomb. They never do that...

End of sarcasm section.

As for our government violating civil and human rights, it has in the past, it is doing so now, and deprived of what little accountability we still maintain, it would do a lot more.

It's hard to understand the hazards created by a government with as much power as ours has unless you've lived under it. The more you trust it, the less trustworthy it becomes. Not because the people are bad, but because of human nature. Wielding power is addictive and highly corruptive. The only way to keep it from running completely off the rails is to make sure it stays at some level, afraid of the people it's trying to rule.

Disarmed, there wouldn't be a balance of power between individuals and the government, and we'd be in a very very bad situation. I'll risk the occasional nutjob vs certain tyranny.

[GingerBear]

@Dionysos See, your replies are an exact representation of my point. You are so obsessed with this one possibility of your government going back to the way it was, that you simply don't seem to care about thousands of your own citizens being murdered each year, who might have lived if their murderer didn't have access to a gun.
That's incredibly messed up, and it seems like everyone else in the world can see that, except for America.
You are continuing to sacrifice innocent people, in order to maintain a dubious defence against a threat that may not even exist. You have serious problems if you can't see what is wrong with that.

[Dionysos]

It's not a possibility. It's happening now. I'm not inclined to make the slide worse by dismantling the safety brakes.

[GingerBear]

@Dionysos You're delusional. I'm not interested in continuing a useless conversation with someone who is so actively ignorant that he would rather pay attention to a potential threat than the one that is already killing thousands of innocents a year.

[Dionysos]

I'm delusional? Lol! I'm not the one thinking it's safer to not have the tools to defend your loved ones.

[GingerBear]

@Dionysos Yes, absolutely, 100% delusional, and a major part of the problem causing thousands of deaths a year. You and people like you are partly responsible for many of those innocent murders.

[Dionysos]

Funny. That's precisely how I view you.

Just keep in mind that you're the violent one. All I want is for people to be left in peace. You're pushing to send attack squads armed with guns after people who aren't hurting anyone, unless they surrender their freedom, their property and their ability to stop an attack. You should be ashamed.

[GingerBear]

@Dionysos I actually just laughed aloud. You're so insane you need to be locked in a padded room for your own safety, and that of everyone else.
Have a look at my country's history with firearms, and have a look at how many 'attack squads' were required to take back guns. Spoiler, the answer is zero.
You want people to be allowed to have weapons capable of killing dozens of people at a time, if not more. You're the problem, not the actually sane people who realise that it's really not a good thing.

Now bugger off, I'm tired of seeing notifications from a delusional, gun crazed nutjob such as yourself.

[Dionysos]

When a person is coerced to comply and doesn't resist, (such as a rape at gunpoint) that doesn't render the act non violent. The same applies to all laws. All of them will result in violence if you persistently refuse to comply.

As for buggering off, no thanks. This is my country, not yours. You're welcome to your opinion, but don't whinge about it when we tell you to get stuffed.

I deduce from your resorting to ad hominem, that you've run out of rational arguments. That being the case, good day to you.

[GingerBear]

@Dionysos Rational arguments don't work against people unable to see reason. Therefore, it's useless for me to try to use logic with you. Because you're not going to understand it.
You have serious issues. I'd say you need therapy, but you're so delusional that I don't think you'd understand why.

[Anonymous]

Paris has very strict gun laws. Didn't stop terrorists from committing a massacre there. Same here. Most, if not all, massacres here happen in gun-free zones. I wonder why.

Criminals will always get guns on the black market. The only people you are hurting by taking away guns from LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS are the citizens you claim to want to protect.

[jacquesvol]

No need for a black market here: I read he had two gun licenses, a security guard license and a state wide gun license. I don't know if his full automatic AR 15 was licensed.

[Opinion Owner]

@jacquesvol My point is that if we make all guns illegal, then criminals will still buy them. The difference will be that good people will be defenseless.

[gobsmacked3]

I agree it is not about banning them, merely limiting them and increasing background checks on who gets them

i heard this gunman was on the FBI watchlist but still was able to buy AK47...

[Opinion Owner]

@bcromartie

https://youtu.be/hYzoAhS0M70

https://youtu.be/z-eNiDrJfsc

https://youtu.be/i-OIlbVggR0

So... you'd rather see criminals trample all over us, eh?

[Opinion Owner]

@bcromartie I sure hope you don't ever have to endure a home invasion by armed thugs.

by the way, I don't own a gun myself, and most of my friends don't, either.

[Opinion Owner]

@bcromartie

"So to you, anon, fuck you. Fuck you, fuck your gun loving friends, fuck your cherrypicking behavior, fuck your blindness and fuck your belief that it's foreign terrorism when in fact this happens all the time."

Wow, dude. Take a chill pill, eh? No need to be antagonistic. :)

[2bv-2b]

There is no problem with owning guns, the ones that want to kill will always find the means, taking them away just removes their use for self-defense.

Take Norway example, already strict rules on gun purchase, 77 killed (and the killer hated Muslims)
www.cbsnews.com/.../

As for media jumping quickly to bind every terrorist act to Islam, that is totally intentional misinformation.. As much against as Islam is towards nowadays depravity, it is never handled this way if you truly follow Islamic ruling.

[Mesmaeker]

So all the kids at that island should have carried guns. Hm hm.

[2bv-2b]

@Mesmaeker is that what you understood from what I said? Impressing...

[Mesmaeker]

Nothing much left for interpretation.. but ok. What did you mean to say?

[2bv-2b]

@Mesmaeker, just pointing out the fact that strict rules on gun purchasing/owning would not make much difference. The ones that want to harm people always find the means to do so, as he did in Norway (a country with already strict rules about this).

The use for self-defense purposes is more general, and not related to that example in particular, even though we will never know how the situation would have been if there were among them someone trained who carried a gun...

[Mesmaeker]

Only government controlled agencies with clear rules of engagement and with extensive training in the use of firearms should be allowed to carry them. No lame "what if" -excuse justifies the killings and accidents with guns.

[Lynx122]

Yeah they had 1 big shooting years ago, in the U. S. it happens everyday.

[madhatters4]

you point out norway and that's fair i suppose. but you point out an isolated incident. America has 10x's the number of firearm deaths than Norway. That's fair more important than a few incidents in Norway. Every country has gun related deaths but no country similar to America (that is say non-third world and even plenty of 3rd world countries a safer than the US) has a rate of death by gun as high

[2bv-2b]

@madhatters4 @Lynx122, guys compare the populations as well, US population is 60x that of Norway, but that's not even the point.

What I meant by that example I think I already explained, but let me say it one more time, if someone wants to do harm they will find the means to do so. Buying guns in the black market, using other ways, whatever. That's why I say the problem is not owning a gun. The real problem is being a killer. I think US should be in the top for the number of serial killers as well.. Even for that is the fault of the guns?
Anyway everyone is entitled to his/her opinion..

[madhatters4]

the guns stats take into account population. for every 100,000 deaths 10+ occur due to guns in america. In Norway it's about 1.5 deaths for 100,000

[Lynx122]

Well I don't agree with your statement that whenever somebody wants to do harm they will find a way. if you look at Japan, Australia or other countries with stricter gin control they have barely any gun deaths. Gun control actually works really well. But there's a lot of money beeing made with gun sales and the politicians are bought off so this shit will keep happening. You can delude yourself into thinking that it would happen anyway if you like but it's not true. I don't live in the U. S. so I don't have to be afraid of randomly getting shot. But I still think it's tragic and the stupidity of people who arge against gun control is also quite tragic.

[2bv-2b]

@madhatters4 most of which are suicides (6/10)... come on...

@Lynx122 I don't live there either, and it could quite well be like you said, because of the corrupted politicians, but again this would be curing the symptoms not the disease..

[madhatters4]

thanks for poiting that out. i was hoping someone would. 1st suicides shouldn't be factored into the issues with guns in america? but even if we want to discount it, it only makes the comparisons worse america had 3.43 homicides per 100,000 comparing it to Norway they had.1 for each 100,000. that actually makes the disparity far worse. it's 10x's if you include all firearm deaths it's 34.3x's worse in america if you only are looking at homicides due to firearms.

[2bv-2b]

@madhatters4 , no, suicides shouldn't be counted at all as gun issues, because if someone is suicidal, firearm or not will find the way to end his/her life, and to be honest using a gun takes a lot more courage than any other way...

You stick to comparing USA to Norway, when that was just an example of a gun shooting massacre when guns are not found as easily (meaning still happens), but ok, if Norway is "so safe" because firearms aren't found as easily as in US, then how come there is contradiction of this assumption within US itself:
for example:
Wyoming State:
Gun Ownership (1st) 59.70%
Gun Murders rate per 100K inhabitants (41st) 0.9

Louisiana State
Gun Ownership (13th) 44.10%
Gun Murders rate per 100K inhabitants (1st) 7.7

en.wikipedia.org/.../Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

[madhatters4]

it's not that guns are harder to be found in Norway. they actually have very high gun ownership rate. there are just strict rules on the types of guns you can purchase, who is purchasing them, and traveling with them (for ex. you can't just drive around with a gun in your car, you have to have a permit specifically to carry a gun to a certain place for a certain use)

comparing states like Wyoming and Louisiana? come on it's a simply issues of the type of population, not apples to apples at all. Comparing Developed Western nations like the US to France or England is a very fair comparison. urban areas are typically more violent than rural areas. so a city like New Orleans is going to heavily swing those numbers. it's not a contradiction at all just a product of the population living there

i don't have to stick to Norway the rates in in all European countries are dwarfed by the rate in the US. the closest may be switzerland and they are still about 1/3 of the number of murders as US

[madhatters4]

responsible gun ownership is something most countries are ok with. but why aren't there or shouldn't there be limitations on the number guns a person has? the type of guns? and how free you are to just toy them around?

people in Europe can protect their houses. go hunting, target practicing. they just aren't allowed to have AK-47's and AR's in the passenger seat of their car as they drive to the 7-11 or go to a club

[2bv-2b]

@madhatters4, most of the guns owned by Norwegian are hunting firearms.
And I never said give anyone the arsenal of guns s/he wants... all I said was, banning the firearms all together is not a solution because all that does is leave unprotected the people that would most likely handle a gun responsibly and for self-defense.
Anyway, I am leaving this discussion now as I'm pretty sure what I think won't make a difference in the gun laws anyway :)

[Dionysos]

@madhatters4

Count up the beatings, robberies and rapes though, and the UK's rates are way higher than ours.

Then knock off however many of the "murders" are actually drug related or criminals getting snuffed in the act.

You're pretty safe in America if you stay out of the heavy gun control areas. In fact, if we knocked off the murders done where guns are banned, there'd be hardly any.

[Dionysos]

@Mesmaeker

As for armed kids:

My high school probably had a couple hundred guns in its student parking lot, every day.

Guess how many shootings there were. Hint: it's a round number.

[madhatters4]

@Dionysos that may be true about Britain's issues but those and they are issues that need to be addressed. doesn't necessarily mean that the US needs some sort of gun reform

[Dionysos]

@madhatters4
We definitely need gun law reform. Specifically we need to strike all the gun control laws we have now from the books, and enforce the constitution. As scary as it might seem, the more people who are armed, the less crime we have. Get rid of designated massacre (so called gun free) zones and the mass shooting thing would go away too.

Yes, there would still be some crime, but it would be less of a problem. End the drug prohibition too, and violence would be almost a non issue.

[LaVilaine]

I think that Americans have become numb to the horror of people getting shot up en masse as they go about their business, because no one wants to do anything about it. Nothing. The general attitude seems to be "oh well, it was no one I knew so that's sad but I reserve the right to shoot anyone jn the face that I choose always and forever." It's disgusting.

[madhatters4]

i guess for someone like me i don't know what else i can do. i sign petitions about gun reform. i vote for senators and representatives that are in favor of gun law reform.

[gobsmacked3]

@madhatters4 The sad part now is both Trump/Clinton are both evil entities that only care about their agendas. Sanders was the best chance of a better America but most could not see through the media hype attached to the other two.

on the gun issue, Sandy Hook essentially ended it for it was the epitome of incomprehensible but America comprehended and in large defended it :(

[LaVilaine]

@madhatters4 you can always move

[madhatters4]

i'm seriously considering it if trump wins

[LaVilaine]

@madhatters4 the wait list in Canada is very long.

[Dionysos]

There's always Mexico. They have a near total gun ban. Should be safe down there...

[LaVilaine]

@Dionysos luckily I'm not American. Y'all can kill each other to your heart's content for all I care.

[Mustachekitteh]

What happened just proves that even with a country that is allowed to have guns. It doesn't save you from something like this happening. So we owe Paris an apology for giving them hell about not having guns and that would have made what happened to them not as bad. Since this Massacre wasn't lessen by gun owners and stopping the shooter.

[AnArtisticMind]

"Per Florida’s concealed carry law, those with a license to carry may not carry their firearms into an establishment that serves alcohol."

Shooters aren't stupid. They deliberately choose targets where they will have zero resistance.

[Mustachekitteh]

@AnArtisticMind So again even with the USA being able to own guns it still doesn't stop this kind of thing because of places like that. Which again proves it was stupid for people to say french people being able to own guns would have made what happened to them not as bad. Since no matter what the ones doing the killing will go to places they know people wouldn't take their guns too.

[Dionysos]

He's saying that gun control law's killed some of the victims, by eliminating the possibility of a more timely response.

Gun free zones contain no law abiding private arms, so they were protected only by one guy. One easily recognizable guy. That's just dumb.

[Mustachekitteh]

@Dionysos Any human that is able to get their hands on a gun is already putting every person around them at risk. Plus with or without guns, when someone wants to kill another they will do what ever it takes to kill them. So they would use anything possible to pull it off even if they have to gas people to death.

[Roxxy99]

Anti-second amendment folks always swoop in like this to take advantage of a tragedy to further their political agendas. Emotions are high right now and emotional people can be fearful and irrational, making them susceptible to this argument. I choose to not let fear goad me into surrendering freedom. Hillary will no doubt also use this fear to advance her gun control agenda. Trump will use the same fear to keep Muslims out of this country. We cannot allow the actions of mad men to entice us to be less free or to diminish who we are as a nation. We are better than that.

[Dionysos]

Um... Second Amendment types swoop in. And they say leave your neighbors in peace.

At the same time, gun bigots swoop in. And they say we should attack our neighbors if they don't surrender their guns... by sending men with guns after them.

Which set has the moral and ethical high ground?

[guy532]

WTF? It's idiots like you that cause so many problems for the US. Seriously, you'd have to be a brain dead moron to be pro-gun at this point. Do you not understand that everyday innocent people are being killed because of crazies with easy access to guns? FOR FUCKS SAKE INNOCENT YOUNG CHILDREN HAVE DIED. But fuck them and their families that have been broken beyong repair. Also fuck the people that will be permanently handicapped for the rest of their lives. Fuck those handicapped people who end up getting depressed to the point of suicide. Fuck them, who cares right? As long as you have a gun to protect yourself from the government in case it tries to take over. That's the whole point of guns right? So the government can fear its people. HAHAHAHAHAH you really think the US government gives a fuck about you or is scared of you? The only thing it cares about is $$$$$, that's all you are to it, a walking bag of money. That's the only reason guns are still legal, their

[guy532]

revenue is too damn good. I wonder how pro-gun you'd be if you or a loved one got shot by one of these crazies? Nah that will never happen to you though because you're probably packing heat all the time. I seriously cannot comprehend how you can still be pro guns at this point. You do realize that the US is one of the only countries where this type of thing happens. HMMMMMMMMM maybe that's just a coincidence? Fucking moron.

[Dionysos]

@guy532

Nice rant!

That said, the kids you mentioned would have had less chance of dying if a teacher had been trained and equipped to stop the shooter.

Also, have you ever tried to rule an armed and hostile population? I have. They made it too expensive for us to stay. Enough said.

[guy532]

@Dionysos HAHAHAHA yea that's soooo true. Why stop at the teachers though? Lets have all the kids carry guns too in case the teacher has a bad day. It's not like there aren't any crazy teachers out there. I'd bet my own life that if you gave teachers guns there will be a teacher that will shoot up his/her own classroom because they're so sick of kids. What am I saying though? That could never happen though because it's impossible for a teacher to be crazy!
I seriously don't care about your opinion or any other pro guns person's opinion. I simply don't need them because of something super simple that never lies and that's math. Do the math and statistics will always show that you're more likely to be killed where guns are legal. That's the only argument I'll ever need. Also, no one is going to try to take over the US when we have by far the highest military spending.

[Dionysos]

@guy532

You just said teachers would shoot up their classes if guns were legal to carry there... implying that only the possibility of a weapons charge is now holding these monsters back now.

Think about it.

You're a crazy monster teacher willing to kill your students and likely die. Would you give a blue fuck about a weapons charge? Honest question.

And you think my opinion is laughable. Irony detected. :-)

[Dionysos]

@guy532

Oh and your math is flat wrong. Otherwise NYC, DC, LA, and Chicago would be our safest cities.

[Dionysos]

@guy532 followed by Detroit and Baltimore, lol!

[frozenhorizon]

I totally agree with you. Plus they seem to think prohibition is actually effective. Works really well for drugs right? I suspect it would work just as well for guns!

[Roxxy99]

@guy532

I will never advocate free people giving up any of their constitutional rights in the name of fear. When you go down that road, you are playing right into the hands of these terrorists. I'm not going to cower and demand that the government abuse its power to make my fellow citizens less free so that I might feel safer. The price of having a free society is the reality that some will abuse that freedom, sometimes in terrible ways. As Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

[Dionysos]

Well put.