Is Satan really such a bad guy?

[Longblackveil]

First let me get this out of the way, I'm not a satanist.

This will be one that will come pretty as a surprise to people who know me on this site. I describe myself as an agnostic Christian, and even just today I was defending God in another question. I follow Christ's teachings because I see them as being very wise and an overall great way to live life but I don't belong to a church. I'm a doubter in many ways and one of the strongest arguments atheists have against God is his behavior in the bible especially the Old Testament. Does that mean he doesn't exist though? Is it possible for God to exist AND be unjust and cruel? What if God is not a force for good but instead, Satan is?

I almost posted this anon but I'm already anon anyway so I'll just keep my username attached. Honestly, this has been a thought of mine since I was a child; the bible was read to me from a very young age and I was hoping to have a decent conversation stuff like "God/Satan doesn't exist" isn't really pertinent to this conversation. So if your a non-believer, fine that's cool. Just approach the question mythologically.

I think about, the story we are told of Lucifer is that he lead a rebellion against God and was cast out of heaven into the abyss where God is not present. In my opinion it's the most interesting story of the bible (and that's saying something) but yet it's hardly touched on at all. We're not told WHY he rebelled, we don't hear his side of the story or his grievances. He was apparently the highest ranking angel in heaven, why would he want to rebel? Further, how did he convince an army of angels to join him in his rebellion against the all powerful and supposedly all good God? Was he really just extremely cunning and persuasive? Or did he actually have a good case for God being unjust. We really don't know because we are left completely in the dark regarding Lucifer's rebellion.

And then later of course he convinces Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge, forbidden by God. God never explains why knowledge is forbidden, and has knowledge ever been a bad thing? In a way he is similar to Prometheus in Greek mythology. Prometheus was basically a friend to mankind and a champion of justice. He gave humans the ability to survive by teaching them farming and how to make fire. Without this knowledge we would be outmatched against the powerful animals blessed with flight, thick skin, super human speed, claws, and teeth.

Then of course we have to address God. Throughout the bible, God is unmistakably responsible for a lot of terrible things. He destroys all life on earth because they fail to worship him, he orders the murder of many different tribes, brings numerous plagues, wipes out cities, condones slavery, I mean you get the point. It's all there just read it. So he's got a lot of blood on his hands essentially. It seems like during the OT he was out of control when he didn't get his way. He had to have killed billions maybe trillions of people

So what of Satan. I can't find a single thing that satan did in the bible that was terrible other than in the book of Job where God places a bet on Job's faith and Satan makes his life suck, he kills most of his family adding up to... About 10 people. If I'm missing something please mention it in the comments, but I've read the bible cover to cover and certainly didn't want to believe this when I started. His other crime is that he convinced King David to take a census(!) God was angry and punished all of Israel with 3 days of plague for it. Apparently man could only count and give number to what belonged to him, as Israel did not belong to David, but to God, God considered it a sin. Well that's quite the wrap sheet there Satan. Another thing worth noting is that in both of these instances, satan asked and was granted permission by God to commit these crimes.

If Satan is so terrible, why are we not told of anything he has done? If I'm right though, why wouldn't we even be lied to about his evil deeds? If you read the bible with an open mind and no presuppositions, Lucifer comes out pretty clean while God doesn't seem like such a great being.

Please comment; I just wanted to jot all this down because it's really been nagging me for many years. Really I hate that this is the conclusion I have come to, and I would hate to be dead wrong on this, but I can only work with the information given to me in the scripture, and that information doesn't tell me why I should be against Satan. It seems like that would be too important of a point for the bible to just gloss over as it does.

Thanks for reading my rant I know it was pretty long but I think it makes for interesting discussion

[ladsin]

I actually love this question! As an agnostic-atheist I obviously believe that neither exist. However, assuming they do asking which is the truly "moral" is a great question. If you ask me it seems that the dynamic shifts between the two. The book Paradise Lost by John Milton is a fascinating read. It's actually where many of the Christian ideas of the genesis story comes from. It states that Satan was cast out of heaven more or less for coveting god's power (a thought crime). The "dictator" god then cast him out and a 1/3 of the angels followed satan. With the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil god lied to adam and eve about what would happen if they ate the fruit. He said they would die. This is interesting they would die if they attempted to gain knowledge. The serpent, or Satan (not mentioned in bible) then told them the truth that surely they would not die. Instead they would actually gain the power of gods themselves (knowledge).
So at the beginning of the Bible I would argue that god is an malevolent dictator who sets up arbitrary rules and doesn't wants his followers intelligent. Later however, Satan because darker himself. He focuses not on liberating people from god's tyrannical rule, but torture and otherwise harming others (god tells him to)
An interesting point made by steven above though is that ha satan means the accuser. It is believed that ha satan was added to jewish folklore as an adoption of the Babylonians dualistic religion...

[stilllearning77]

You should stop believing in (while positively intended and projected) organized religion. Its a 'logical/tangible' method to help people understand a much more complex schematic of truth. Its containing yet attempting to assist humanity in controlling their virtues, goodwill towards others. You cannot maintain positive vibrational energy required to move ahead once you move on (energy only transforms). Satan or what the word represents, is a very low level vibrational frequency and horrible, negative and ominous existence at this level. What you do here and now in this life will determine your valued existence as an energy form later. Various degrees of below and above versus at purgatory, stuck in-between at 0 (zero). Do you wish to be stuck in a an in-between lost state for who knows how long or a scary demonic local with lower level energies bullying you to the 1,000th degree for what would seem like an eternity. behave and do unto others as you wish to be done unto yourself is all I can offer. The rest is probably already way above most peoples belief systems. Organized religion and its outlining is simplistc for the human mind and therefore feels 'safe' to them. Anything past a 5th sense is comprehended as insanity or disbelief. Its meant to be that way, as the negativity best hide is to always seems as if it does not exist.

[Longblackveil]

You should use paragraphs :D

[stilllearning77]

You should prioritize, this is not a college APA or MLA paper buybacks... but a casual discussion. =)

[Longblackveil]

Yes but imagine if we were having a face to face convo and I never paused just kept speaking words incessantly, that's kind of what you just gave me. It's difficult to understand what your saying.

My religion is hardly organized. I haven't belonged to a church since i was 7. I follow Jesus Christ because his teachings were wise, makes no difference if he's really the son of God or not.

You lost me on all the vibrations, energies, and frequency stuff. Seems like some kind of method to help you understand much more complex schematic of truth ;)

[stilllearning77]

Maybe so (on your take of my opinion), however I get told that quite often (that I speak to quickly, type to much in depth information -- but its my brain and I cannot help it). Most of the time even at work, while with trying to convey SQL, work flow process/diagramming for user interface software systems and data architecture... everyone always seems to say "we don't know what you just said, can you explain it a bit more broken down?". I get frustrated because I simply don't know how else to do that. A weakness I'll be glad to accept, but not sure how to improve yet. No one has offered any advise on how to improve, only complain. I wish I could be better at it. Sorry...

[Longblackveil]

Difficult to say without actually hearing you talk. But when your describing something complex, it's always good to be conscious of the person your describing it to as much as possible, take pause and make sure they're following and give them room to ask questions. Maybe it's as simple as just waiting a second for what you said to sink in. OR maybe you need to talk to smarter people :P

[Longblackveil]

I imagine you can lose your train of thought pretty easily if you pause?

[stilllearning77]

You said it exactly, I can loose my train of thought if I stop. It just flows out exactly as its meant to be expressed. But yet my audience in general and in life period is not always prepared. I go with your opinion to stop and explain, diagram, slow down and then I try to draw diagrams (visualizations)... but then people get offended to think that 'I' think they are that ignorant. Don't know how to win honestly. Still learning about so much, relationships with opposite sex, communications at higher levels, extensiveness to what I am trying to convey. Hell if this were a dating site, you would know just how fucked up beautifully smart but stupid I am at the same time. =D

[djvtech]

VIBRATION!
ENERGY!
FREQUENCY!

Q U A N T U U U U U U U U U U M!!!

[ComDom]

I will start this off by saying: "And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." - Luke 10:18

Satan or actually Lucifer is (supposedly) a fallen angel. He was once God's right-hand angel so-to-speak but pride overtook him and he sought to unseat God as the ruler of existence. Lucifer = Morning Star = Red Dragon = Devil. Could it be symbolism? Maybe. God also has many names: I am, alpha and omega, beginning and end, Jesus, Lord, Heavenly Father, Yahweh, Love, etc.

Isaiah 14:12-

How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth... And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." - Revelation 12:3-9

Jesus being tempted by Satan:

"Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.” -Matthew 4:1-3

"Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." - 1 Peter 5:8

This explains it better than I am: www.godandscience.org/.../who_is_satan.html#n15

[Marstalk]

Be careful Jesus is also referred to as The Morning Star. Not to mention the context of Isaiah is referring to Babylon and its king.

[ComDom]

I appreciate that. I skimmed it overly quickly. Can you find me a verse where Jesus is morning star?

[ComDom]

@Marstalk I guess I'm not totally convinced yet. Just because that verse was directed toward the king of Babylon doesn't mean it couldn't allude to Satan also.

[Marstalk]

Here you go.
https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Revelation%2022.16

[Marstalk]

Also I would make sure your hermeneutics are good.

[ComDom]

@Marstalk that's so weird. I had no idea. Why would Satan and Jesus have the same name? Did Jesus replace Satan in a way? Also, isn't "hermeneutics" subjective though?

[Marstalk]

Because Satan is Hebrew means accuser. Hermeneutics are subjective to some extent. But you will probably get torn apart from those who have been through who have gotten a theology degree. The biggest thing is context. Whether it is cultural or with in a passage. This is why the idea of the King of Babylon is argued as the morning star or in vulgar Latin lucifer. Satan does not mean morning star there for Jesus does not replace Satan. The connection between Satan, Lucifer, and the devil comes from some of the early church fathers. Which had some influence on how certain passages where translated.

[ComDom]

@Marstalk interesting. I appreciate that. Are there any verses about Satan rebelling against God before Earth? Also are Lucifer and Satan not the same? I'm still a little confused.

[Marstalk]

You can try the book of Enoch, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

Lucifer and Satan are considered the same by Christian tradition. But much of our literature on him/it/her comes more from Dante than actual biblical sources.

[ComDom]

@Marstalk I appreciate the info. Why does the Biblical cannon leave out the book of enoch even now? I've heard about it in the past.

[Marstalk]

It was not considered authentic or popular among the churches.

[ComDom]

@Marstalk I find that odd given, "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him" - Jude 1:14–15

[Marstalk]

Yeah, it is quoted in Jude. I know Paul references some extra biblical sources too. But the Church decided what was canonical.

[bijbee]

A few days ago I had a dream. I saw How Jesus in the past did fail for his third initiation in Egypt. He once was the right hand of God. But he is no more. Now What?

[bijbee]

Eating of the fruit is the Protestants. They study the Bible and end up in hell. They can not understand the bible. God told me himself he needs priests the way it is with Catholics. If a person explains the bible we get mistakes and confusion. It is not our place. So there the Catholics make a point and they know more then the Protestants give them credit for. They made no mistake ever and are always up to date and so it is from God. In the Catholic church is gods word. The words, not people want to hear when they are not as little children but from the right path and many are. Come back my children God would say. But they are far and so are their ears. In the Catholic church you are accepted as a woman and not hated as in society and you are allowed to be a little child as we are when we are near the father. So try to walk through their big door and you feel what I mean and be small again and playful and innocent. And let go you hard harbor. why must children carry such a heavy load? Put it off your shoulders and walk into the church and feel it again and remember, this is also what children seek and want to be in life. Little there were are their great parents and play and be save in social company.

[Kinstrome]

As far as I've read (which is not as much as a serious Biblical scholar), the word "Satan" has just evolved out of the word for "accuser/challenger," and that's essentially the role he played in archaic Judaic writings. In the book of Job, for instance, he does not antagonize God, he just doubts that Job would continue to worship God if not for his very generous life circumstances. Gradually people began to think of that challenger as the devil, and though there seem to be few similarities between the devils of various Biblical authors, they were married into one idea of a single, evil entity.

While I don't think Christianity is a bad religion and I too defend it on here often, I don't see the rationale behind believing in a supreme evil being. "Evil" is a categorizing for those actions (and in some views thoughts/beliefs) that are destructive to society or to individuals. We call things like rape and murder and burglary evil because they are clearly destructive to human welfare. Of course, people understand that those things are almost always done for reasons, even if the reasons seldom if ever justify the actions. People go out and shoot random people because they are miserably unhappy with their life, or to get revenge for a perceived injustice, or to feel a sense of power, or, in the case of a sociopath, just out of curiosity of what will happen. I cannot believe a formless evil superbeing is causing people to act any differently than they would already, much less that he literally caused people to start doing destructive things and before that, no one ever did anything that hurt anybody in any way.

[Kraken_666]

Satan is not a bad guy. He never was. Its just his pride which caused him so much of trouble and was kicked out of heaven.
No need to mention, Satan was once God's favorite angel and also was the most beautiful and intelligent.- It was the time when God had not created Life on Earth.
When God created life on Earth, He made everything beautiful, and human being was his best creation by that time.- This was not acceptable to Satan, As he always wanted to be the best and favorite. So, he took 1/3 of God's Children and rebelled against God.
When God came to know about this; He deflated Satan's pride, made him ugly and kicked him out of heaven, That's how Satan became fallen angel.
So, Satan chose Earth as his place. The Mesozoic era and all the demonic creatures (Reptiles, Lizards including Dinosaurs) were then created by Satan ; which was later on destroyed by God. We call it "Evolution".
Anyways, Satan will never give up on fighting against God. Because this is how it is designed by the Almighty. In order to demonstrate the "Good" ; there has to be an "Evil". In order to prove the existence "God" , there has to be a "Devil".
"Light means nothing if there is no Darkness."

[Resoglass]

Good guy Satan
www.quickmeme.com/.../...f4fef19d33412325af35a.jpg
...
www.quickmeme.com/.../...fe0e53415474768ae2ec6.jpg
...
www.quickmeme.com/.../...5862a33d14a9ef2f69d22.jpg

[BiffWebster]

if you want to believe that there is a special place where god puts you when you've been bad (after you die) then that's cool. Look satan is the class clown, the rebellious teenager, that didn't want to listen to his dad, so he was kicked out of the house.

[MonaAmour]

Really great read and thought provoking - I think this applies to most religions and not just Christianity. Anything is labelled satanic or evil that questions the ultimate supremacy of a God. That would mean any type of critical thinking would be considered evil or unnatural, even though humankind are basically creatures created to think and to question... cogito ergo sum. Quite a dilemma for Philosophy that will probably remain without an answer.

[GadzQue]

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

[Anonymous]

If you actually read the Bible, you would know that the Bible does not depict Satan as the red guy with horns and a tale. Satan isn't even capitalized in the Bible. Why? Because he's not really a person, he was an "entity" or better, an instrument used to symbolize poor choices.

[Longblackveil]

im not saying your wrong, but that doesn't make much sense to me and i have certainly read the bible multiple times, its the best book ever written

If it were true, what does the story of Lucifer and his fall from grace mean? He was an "annointed cherub" Why is he attributed to great pride? These things dont sound like they are used to describe just a symbol. Jesus has a confrontation with him, again, why would he confront an idea all alone in the desert? He refers to him as "the prince of this world"

It seems clear to me that Lucifer is indeed an actual being.

[Opinion Owner]

I was referring to what @marstalk was talking about.

[ComDom]

Satan is capitalized in many translations in the Bible. I'm going to make a post about this soon.

[ComDom]

In the mean time this is a good place to check it out: www.godandscience.org/doctrine/who_is_satan.html

[Opinion Owner]

@comdom yes, but it's not supposed to be. The Hebrew that it was translated from was not capitalized

[Star_Lord]

Long Live The Jesus and Jehovah. Satan leave. me alone. If Satan is a good guy, He won't choose against GOD, Obviously he is not a good guy, He also torture Job and me. On the judgment day, He will be destroy by the Almighty GOD👼👍 👿👎

[Star_Lord]

So you may have heard God bless people, But you never heard Satan bless people. So devil will be the devil, And GOD Still GOD. GOOD is always GOOD. Bad is always Bad.👌

[KHaskins]

I have never forgotten this:
voxnova2.files.wordpress.com/.../...inthedevil.gif

[Anonymous]

Question for you. If I paint a picture but I'm not pleased with it and tore it up, could you get angry with me? I mean it's mine not yours. Now what if I showed you a painting and YOU didn't like it and decided to tear up MY painting. Completely different story. If something is my creation I can do whatever I want with it. That's not someone else's place though

[Longblackveil]

replace painting, with "child" in your analogy. Does your answer change?

Just playing devild advocate here :)

[Opinion Owner]

It's different from our perspective bc it's one of our kind. Not exactly the same

[Longblackveil]

fair enough, well the obvious direction would then be, how about a puppy? I dont think creating something NECESSARILY gives you the right to destroy it. Thats why im against abortion except in the more extreme cases

[Opinion Owner]

Well we don't create puppies. We just sorta get them. Still not the same

[Longblackveil]

we dont truly create ANYTHING. But to compare an action that we would do, to an action God would do, requires a hypothetical and a little imagination.

Im aware that we cannot create puppys, but what if we could? Maybe through stem cell research we discover how to create fully living breathing animals. Since we create them, do we have the right to destroy them

[bijbee]

Yeah, you make a great point. I wish everybody understood that. Hope many reach your words. It is good there are people who are able to understand Gods word. But there are not many. Because to many twist Gods word.

[Kiwedin]

I just find it silly how the second God casts Satan out of heaven, he transforms from a beautiful angel to an ugly horned demon thing. If Satan was an angel, he's probably really beautiful lol

[noneoftheabove]

human interpretation lol

[Vinvei]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpfkqUee_cs

A food for thought, quotes from Bible included.

[bijbee]

Why do you Protestant always show those evil pictures all over the internet? You make people sick. Go back to Jesus. And ask forgiveness.

[Conrad_Kelsiven]

Feel free to toss a message at me if you are curious as to my answer, but I rather not get fireballed by other users.

[Longblackveil]

Ah cmon man up!

[Conrad_Kelsiven]

Well, I am one of those infamous 'Mormons' (properly, a member of the church of Jesus Christ and latterday saints). I won't say that everything I say is utterly correct and corresponds with what my religion generally teaches- but that isn't the issue. You just want a good story, right? Here is a short, and likely poorly explained version of our beliefs.

In our pre-mortal lives, (before being born on earth) we existed as spiritual beings. God existed first and long before us, and his origin isn't explained. Besides him, there was only a great 'mist' per say, and from that 'mist' formed intelligences, which were us. Of these, the first and greatest was Jesus Christ, and the close second in both formation and greatness was Lucifer, Satan, the Devil, etc. Following them were the rest of us, with varying degrees of intelligence.

God formed a plan to allow us to progress, and to learn to become more similar to himself. The greater part of this involved gaining bodies.

[Conrad_Kelsiven]

Well, of course before we could have bodies, we needed a place to stay. So, in the book of Abraham (our translation) God and several others created existence and eventually earth. It was all set, but there was one fatal issue. If we went, and took this 'test' and learning experience, how could we return? Only pure beings could exist with God, and no one would be capable of returning, as even in spiritual form, we possessed our true personalities and flaws. It was inevitable that in order for us all to have a chance at returning, that one would have to take upon them the burden of everyone else's sins.

Most know the first candidate, Jesus Christ, but the second was Lucifer. Both had good intentions at heart, but different ways of reaching the same goal. Christ wanted man to have 'agency', or the ability to choose for ourselves. Free will, thought, and action. He would live a perfect life in order to be a worthy sacrifice that could take on mankind's combined punishment for their sins.

[Conrad_Kelsiven]

Lucifer however, saw a flaw in Christ's plan. Not everyone would be able to return that way, as some would make mistakes, would choose not to believe, and fall away. He had a solution, which was to remove our 'agency', and take control. No one would be able to commit sin, and he would force us all to live righteously. Which theoretically would allow everyone to reach heaven once more.

What he did not comprehend was that 'agency' was essential to the whole point of coming to earth. We have to make our own choices to learn, make mistakes, learn to fix mistakes, etc. As spiritual beings, we would not be able to develop under his plan, making our coming to earth redundant. Thus God chose Christ.

Regardless of this reasoning, one third of the hosts of heaven chose to follow Lucifer, and two thirds chose to follow Christ. A war ensued, and the one third that rebelled were cast out, Lucifer among them.

[Conrad_Kelsiven]

Of the conditions of being cast out, one was that none of those cast from heaven would be given a chance on earth. (None would gain bodies.) These beings were greatly embittered by the restrictions, as they were cursed to the earth, but unable to interact with it. Now what remains is for them to tempt us, and to push us to perform actions that would eventually have us join them in their misery. This does not mean that every evil thought comes from a spirit, but their influence is there.

Anyway, that's the end of my account. Take it as you will, I suppose to a non-believer it is an interesting read, if not credible.

[Longblackveil]

Is that in the book of Mormon? That is pretty interesting.

That would explain a lot, and in that case I would certainly agree with Christs plan. Pretty cool

[Conrad_Kelsiven]

Portions of it are in the Book of Mormon, but a good chunk of it also comes from another of our scriptures called 'The Pearl of Great Price'.

[bijbee]

Man, you make a lot of short terms in a short moment that is extremely important that quickly. What we need on this planet is people like you. And Exactly what you are and what you are saying. This is really great and also what you are all saying. Magnificent in one word and I am not joking of course. Especially what you say about mists and intelligence. You get right to the point. I have not yet anybody seen doing that.

[bijbee]

I am for sure going to read that book 'The Pearl of Great Price'you advised. And I found it online. I hope I learn a lot. Thank you.

[LittleSally]

I think the correct wording of this question woud've been: 'Was Satan such a bad guy?'
Since he is now (if he exists) thoroughly bad...

[Longblackveil]

how are you so sure?

In my opinion if he wasn't bad to begin with, he isn't bad now. If he WAS bad then he is bad now

[LittleSally]

Not true...
People/supernatural creatures change all the time... Usually never better themselves - almost always lean towards the worse version of themselves.

[Longblackveil]

what about Saul/Paul. He changed for the better i would say. Im not saying things dont change. My question is, what makes you so sure that Satan is bad now? Neither Satan nor God has been present or done anything on Earth for a very long time as far i can see.

and i dont know how you can say usually things get worse not better.

[LittleSally]

Personal experience.

[Bag-A-Bek]

Satan seems like a cool dude to me and I'd love to have him for a roommate. I'd think we'd get alone just fine.

[NotNoah]

What kind of kinky shit are you into?

[Bag-A-Bek]

Many.

[Marstalk]

Well I do not believe in a spiritual being called Satan. Accuser is probably a better translation than Satan.

[Longblackveil]

satan can also be translated as "adversary", Satan is called a number of different names that translate to various condemnations such as "slanderer" etc but the bible does seem to make it very clear that he is an actual being and not just an idea or a symbol

[Marstalk]

Eh, I disagree. I think the word is a literary device. Jesus' temptation was to show his human side. Revelation is a symbolic book that show God triumphs in the end. Job to me is fable like.

[Marstalk]

These verses are usually interpreted as referencing Lucifer. ttps:/.../?search=Isaiah+14%3A12-15&version=ESV

[Marstalk]

Though lucifer is Latin vulgate for morning star.

[Anonymous]

My thoughts:
www.irreligion.org/.../god-v-satan.png

[MelioraValidus]

I think in a similar manner, there is also the fact that "god" is a bit of a sexist pig in the bible and I, as a Feminist, despise sexist pigs.