Are Europeans more open minded and liberal than Americans? If yes then why?

[Anonymous]

Are Europeans more open minded and liberal than Americans?
Also an average European is more likely to be an atheist than an average American.
Even when it comes to marriage, Europeans marry less as compared to Americans and most have "living in relationships" or just live alone...
Also they have a more "free" society as compared to Americans where one can easily avail prostitution facilities without being judged, gay marriages, etc
www.eupedia.com/.../...ifferences_europe_usa.shtml
This site shows some of these differences...
Why do you think this is?

[been_waiting]

I think Europeans are more liberal and open minded, yes.

Why, I have no idea really. But if you look at the history of America, we were a bunch of religious nutjobs who slaughtered Natives, stole their land because "God said we could", enslaved a race of people because "God said we could", and oppressed women because "God said we could."
Now we've got people who against gay marriage because "God said no" and abortion because "God said no." And we've got this sense of pride because we are literally taught in school that we're the best country in the entire world and no one is as free as us and we are the voice of reason in this world.
When in reality we're still a bunch of ethnocentric pricks who are less educated than most Europeans who want the entire world to look up to us and follow suit yet we as a nation can't be bothered to learn about other cultures; rather, we except English and American customs to be taught in every foreign home...

At least that's how a large number of people think.
Wait what was the question...

[been_waiting]

*expect

[gotc147]

Wow... You flunked history didn't you?

[Kroakies_krickees]

Wow. You sure know how to give a speech. Lol.

[been_waiting]

@gotc147 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny
"Defenders of slavery noted that in the Bible, Abraham had slaves. They point to the Ten Commandments, noting that "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, ... nor his manservant, nor his maidservant." In the New Testament, Paul returned a runaway slave, Philemon, to his master, and, although slavery was widespread throughout the Roman world, Jesus never spoke out against it."-from https://www.ushistory.org/us/27f.asp

[been_waiting]

All the atrocities committed were somehow justified religiously. I'm not sure how this isn't true?

[Asker]

Do you think countries which have religion that originated in other countries tend to be more religious than the "original" ones?

[been_waiting]

Now if you're denying America's ethnocentricism then I'm not sure what to tell you.

[been_waiting]

asker- nah, I don't think that's the cause of it. I think a lot of it is the United State's "this is AMERICA" attitude. People use that to justify everything. No old man in the south can shut up about freedom.
Yes, ahh, freedom, where you can have a room full of guns, yet two people in love can't get married...

[gotc147]

The Portuguese enslaved Africans hundreds of years before the American Revolution, 60+ percent of the Native population had already been wiped out from diseases contracted from explorers and fishermen who had travelled there before, and women were oppressed in EVERY culture.

We also didn't do any of these things "because God said so". Africans were enslaved because they could be, any race that wasn't white was genuinely considered inferior, true racism. The first "Americans" to try to settle here didn't just drop anchor and start killing Natives, it was a gradual thing where tensions on both sides grew and eventually lead to what happened, then once we were done any Natives that were left were allowed to have land and we educated them on how to be self-sufficient in what passed for modern technology at the time. As for women, do some research on Victorian England.

For someone who calls themselves an "intellectual" you sure are lacking in the intellect department.

[been_waiting]

@gotc147
that's funny. because I didn't know that I had said no other country ever held slaves? I don't recall saying that. I also don't recall saying that women weren't oppressed in other cultures, nor do I recall saying that the only thing that wiped out the Natives was the English settlers.
How is claiming that one country is guilty of something, implying that no other country is?
Check up on that logic.

I did NOT say Americans went seeking slaves because God came down from the heavens and said so. But they JUSTIFIED, key word JUSTIFIED the keeping of slaves, RELIGIOUSLY. They also justified the murder of Natives religiously. No matter how many died of disease, Americans did IN FACT murder Natives. That cannot be denied. And they justified it. Yes women have always been oppressed but the Bible condones this and thus, it was justified. Did my entire point fly over your head?

[been_waiting]

@Kroakies_krickees lol thanks

[gotc147]

The part where you said "But if you look at the history of America, we were a bunch of religious nutjobs who slaughtered Natives, stole their land because "God said we could", enslaved a race of people because "God said we could", and oppressed women because "God said we could.": is where you said all those things, you specifically mentioned America and kept saying "we", any English speaker is going to take that as you're talking about Americans. The only one of your points that is even remotely correct is that we killed Native Americans, but it wasn't because "God said we could", it was because over time tensions built up and eventually reached a tipping point, like many wars throughout history. The Pilgrims didn't just land in Plymouth and say "Hey, God sent us to kill you and take your land so... See you on the other side" and then start shooting like you imply.

[Kroakies_krickees]

Lol that was sarcastic. But, regardless, you're welcome. :)

[been_waiting]

@gotc147 my point is. They justified what they did with the bible. That's my point.

[been_waiting]

I'm not saying there were no other reasons they did what they did. Not sure how else to word this.

[been_waiting]

@kroakies_krickees oops.

[gotc147]

So in other words you were just ranting against religion?

[been_waiting]

@gotc147 you're extremely condescending and you think you're smarter than every user on here yet you can't comprehend what I am saying so take it down a notch.
I'm talking about the attitude of America in general. You might want to reread the initial question.
Americans are less liberal and less open minded, most likely due to religion

[gotc147]

I can never help but laugh when people tell me what I think lol.

You blamed Americans for slavery, accused Americans of committing genocide out of a sense of entitlement and blamed Americans for women being treaded like second class citizens. I would love to know where you developed such a hatred of Americans.

I'd be willing to bet you think Republicans are evil though.

[been_waiting]

@gotc147 how slow are you...
I already said that I didn't blame the US for slavery. Slavery had existed in many cultures for a very long fucking time. I will only say this one last time: the US JUSTIFIED slavery and misogyny with the bible. God. Didn't say it was the direct cause and that they wete the only ones.

[gotc147]

I am very aware that slavery has existed for a very long time, in fact I'm the one who told you that.

Manifest Destiny was used to justify expansion to the entire continent of North America by early Americans, so I don't know where you got the idea that it was the belief that Americans had some birthright or something to enslave people, commit genocide or mistreat women.

[been_waiting]

@gotc147 you're really thick. I was not saying you didn't know that. I was trying to demonstrate to you that I am AWARE THAT THE US DIDN'T START SLAVERY. You are trying to tell me that I implied the US began slavery.
"I was actually the one who told you that" I have been aware of this for a very long time. Probably since 5th grade. You really do think you're the god of knowledge don't you. Yet you are the slowest person I've ever had the displeasure of arguing with on this site.

[been_waiting]

I will say it again.
RELIGION WAS NOT THE DIRECR CAUSE OF SLAVERY AND MISOGYNY.
HOWEVER IT WAS USED TO JUSTIFY BOTH.
jesus fuckin christ! Do you get it yet?

[gotc147]

I understood what you were saying a long time ago, maybe I just haven't been clear enough, so let me try a different approach...

YOU ARE WRONG.

[been_waiting]

@gotc147
Oh look- slavery justified by the bible
https://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_slav1.htm

If you get around the reading the bible one day you'll also find that it claims that men are supposedly the heads of households and women should be subservient.

[gotc147]

You keep jumping in between religion and Manifest Destiny, the two are not the same, which is it?

Again, it was not God that was used to justify slavery, it was the genuine belief that if you weren't white, you were inferior. Nobody went into Africa, found black people and said "hey, God said I can enslave you, so let's go", they went into Africa, found some black people and said "you're inferior to me, so you're going to be my slave, lets go". There was no justification other than the belief of being superior, nobody ever went to a slave and said "you know, this isn't personal, it's just that God wills it".

[Anonymous]

That's bullshit!
I live in Europe and yes here in Switzerland prostiution is legal at 16, which is quiet sad!!!
Not all Europeans are open minded! For example my parents are both born in Croatia so East Europe .
Just imagine if I would have a black boyfriend, my grandma would have a heartattack! I mean my parents are really open minded but they are exeptions.
And now Switzerland, I have to say this culture is so racist! I have a East European last name and they judge, I even got bullied from teachers because of my origin!
That's why I am moving soon to California.

[Asker]

Prostitution is legal at 16?
I know there can be exceptions but its just on an average that Europeans seem to be more open minded. In America, being an atheist is difficult;also other aspects like gay relationships etc. are a taboo...
I didn't know about the racism though, that's just sad...

[Opinion Owner]

Yes, here in Switzerland a lot of students earn extra money through that, I think it's sick!
Here almost everything is legal at 16 expect driving. So people at 15 or 16 can get drunk, clubbing and all that stuff.
To be an atheist is not difficult (also all the other religions) but gay relationships are also not
common. A lot of people don't know, that we pay taxes to the church that's why a lot of people are atheists here in Switzerland.

[Opinion Owner]

except*

[Asker]

You pay taxes to the church? I didn't know that lol
So being an atheist is more profitable then? :P

[Asker]

And is the majority of the population atheist?

[Opinion Owner]

Yes we pay taxes about 1300$ per year and I think so haha

[Opinion Owner]

Yes there are a lot. I mean my whole family wants to get atheist.

[purplishone]

Majority of my relatives live in different cities of Switzerland and i'm agree with you. Switzerland is a beautiful and modern country but at the same time i know that they judge different origins very much, they can't accept them so easy. I know from my relatives.. I hope they can be more open-view people like they say :)

[platinumskies]

Ehhhh I'd say yes and no- some countries realize what's right and wrong, other don't. It depends on each country really rather than whole Europe . Europe however doesn't really like America or Americans lol so I doubt they would really agree on anything Americans say or believe in. And this is coming from someone who's european so if that gives you any insight.

[Asker]

Lol Europeans don't like Americans? :P
Yeah i agree Europe has different countries and is more culturally diverse...

[platinumskies]

Well considering that we have jokes about you guys we don't I guess? I know back when I lived in Europe , in my country we would hate getting into anything with America unless if it involves money- but don't know maybe things changed but doubt it

[Asker]

Lol :P

[front2back]

Yes and no, I come come up with examples that Europeans are not as open minded as Americans:
-Possession of Firearms (Switzerland is an exception)
-Choosing your own path in life, some European countries will place you in a specific education/work program based on how well you do on a test
-Voluntary Military service, some european countries make you join the military if you're a male and 16-18. In the US, this would be seen as a violation of your freedoms

I'm sure there are more, but those are the one I thought of. I think the reason the US is so religiously and conseravtive is because of it's Puritan background. Even with European immigrants and immigrants from other places around the world, there's still a very big Protestant and conservative mindset. Here in the Bible Belt, I can say that it is not an open minded place. I have been literally told that my Christian denomination was evil and I'd burn in Hell since it wasn't their religion.

[Asker]

Yeah i agree there are those exceptions...
Thats just sad to hear, why do religious people spread so much hatred!

[gotc147]

Open minded and liberal for the most part yes.

More free, not a snowballs chance in hell.

Most European countries have their citizens so dependent on government they can't even wipe their own ass, once Germany stops giving out money, whether it be by choice or because they have none left to give, that entire continent will fall into chaos. Add to that the fact that in some European countries they've done some serious rolling back of free speech and other rights, you have to have a really demented idea of what "freedom" is to think Europe is more free than America.

[Asker]

Yeah they are dependant on the government very much i agree...

[ShaeNielson]

We have freedom of speech, and have the right to say what we want! But we do have to be careful with using your free speech. We had an artist who painted a picture of Allah, and the middle east went crazy! The news paper who brought the picture, is still highly secured because of terror threats. And in 2010 (several years after the pictures where out) a man with an ax broke in the the artists home - While his granddaughter was there. We have to be careful, it's fucking sad but true.
We also pay a lot to the government yes, but we only do so so we can get benefits like free hospitals, or safety nets if we get fired, sick, pregnant or can't work. Some people are just sucking the money out like leaches, sitting on their asses expecting money to come, and we should do something about that! But nothing is ever 100% good.

[Asker]

@ShaeNielson That story about the artist is just too sad...

[ShaeNielson]

Should have read that through haha, Of course I meant *OUR freesom of speech, not YOUR.

@Asker it is sad, but it's far from unique.

[gotc147]

@ShaeNielson A man in the UK was arrested for quoting Winston Churchill, so no, you don't have freedom of speech. All the things you mentioned we have in the US, nobody has "free hospitals", you just pay for it through taxes and treat it more like insurance whereas in the US we pay for it out of pocket on more of an as needed basis. The problem you mentioned with your system is the reason why your system is terrible, it creates a sense of entitlement and ultimately implodes on itself, you can't "do something" about it without severely alienating a sizeable chunk of the voting public, a chunk some politicians will be happy to pander to, making the problem worse.

[ShaeNielson]

That is not normal, and we do have freedom of speech. It's a basic human right.
We pay through taxes yes, the more you make the more you pay, and that is fair! In that way we won't go broke if a family member gets sick. I would never live under a system like the U. S.

[gotc147]

@ShaeNielson I am well aware that freedom of speech is a basic human right, but left-wing policy seeks to limit freedom of speech, as well as other freedoms like protect from unreasonable search and seizure, another right being eroded all around the world.

Your system works only for so long, it has a fundamental flaw in that it eventually becomes too expensive to maintain due to a mixture of issues. The system the US used to use may not have been perfect but it was FAR better than Obamacare. You don't screw up everybody to benefit a small portion of the population, that's bad business and bad politics.

[ShaeNielson]

Oh really? Okay funny we are one of the happiest countries, and you don't have to worry about not being able to pay for treatment, or about not being able to feed your family. All you Americans hate our system, funny it works so good for us though.

[gotc147]

@ShaeNielson it works for now, give it time, it will gradually become too expensive to maintain, it always does.

[ShaeNielson]

It have worked for years, and it will continue to do so. We aren't a "every man for himself" county like the U. S.

[gotc147]

@ShaeNielson It takes years to implode, are you trying to tell me that taxes have never once been raised since the system was implemented?

[ShaeNielson]

No, I am not trying to tell you that. I never said our system is perfect, but I would not live under anything else, unless I was rich.

[gotc147]

So how many times have taxes been raised since you implemented your socialist system? Governments raise taxes for a reason, they need to pay for their programs. In the future your taxes will be raised again, and again, and again until eventually consumer spending is negatively impacted to a point of hurting your economy, but taxes will still need to go up to maintain the system. So you'll be left with two choices, either scrap the system or raise taxes again and plunge your economy into the abyss.

This is the fundamental flaw of socialism, it works great, until you run out of everybody else's money.

[gotc147]

@ShaeNielson

[ShaeNielson]

It have been raised, I never said our system is perfect. But still I would never want to live under a different system, not whitout being rich.

[gotc147]

@ShaeNielson your system isn't simply imperfect, it's doomed to failure.

Pre-Obamacare, the American system was imperfect, it wasn't a catastrophe waiting to happen like yours is.

[ShaeNielson]

If you say so ;)

[gotc147]

@ShaeNielson it will be fun to to say I told you so since judging by your age the system should collapse right around the time you're really going to need it.

[ShaeNielson]

... If you say so ;)

[Greece1990]

Europeans are lot of different cultures and languages. You can't really compare because real "Americans" have all been assimilated in American culture. there's only a few American cultures compared to the many European, so you can't really compare unless you pick a specific one, like French and NE US culture.

[Asker]

Yeah i agree, Europe has far greater cultural diversity...

[dartmaul15]

Well... religion has more power in USA, that's for sure. Hell, politicans there are sometimes using their religion as a narguement to vote for them. If that had happened in Europe (or at least in norway) it would've just contributed negatively. So i got a feeling that religion is to some extent slowing down development, especially regarding hot topics (gays, abortion, and all that crap).
This is purely based on observation though.

[Asker]

Yeah i agree about politicians using religion in USA..
Also Americans are more likely to attend church than Europeans it seems. So could that also be because of politics?

[dartmaul15]

i'd rather say it's because they're more religious as a whole.
Norway is among the most secularized countries in the west, and among the countries that have progressed the furthest in the world (also we're one of the best countries to live in). Here the only ones crying and moaning about gay marriage are the very conservative christians. The rest think it's perfectly fine. Same goes for abortion; it's seen as something that's basically a human right. Nobody burns aboriton clinics or send death threats to the taff (that does happen in usa).

So thus it seems that religion (or at least conservative religion) is slowing down the progress of society.

[Asker]

Yeah and thats true in most of the other parts of the world as well..
Norway is an awesome country then! :) Also its one of the least corrupt countries i guess?

[dartmaul15]

yup, we're at the very head of the class, it seems. XD

[Asker]

That's cool! :)
Denmark tops the list of the least corrupt countries i guess?

[dartmaul15]

you're form denmark, aren't you?
I don't know about the corruption ranking, but norway and denmark are riight at the top when it comes to the "best" countries to live in. Even if norway tends to win, the differences are marginal.

[Asker]

No im not from Denmark lol... im neither European nor American :P I just read in my local newspaper that Denmark tops the list :D
What about Sweden and Finland? Are they among the top scorers too?

[dartmaul15]

sweeden is, but i don't think finland's that close. They're not using the "scandinavian welfare system" to the ame extent as norway, denmark, and sweeden.

[Anonymous]

There is some truth to that but it really depends on which country and which region of each country. The bible belt, older people and many southern people seem to be close minded and religious which makes them close minded and hateful. These people are a dying breed but the past year or two republicans have spend billions on hate propaganda and it has paid off for them sadly. Also people tend to be followers. Many people believe they don't want united health care because they think many others don't want it. People like John Boehner have been speaking for the American public and the dumb uneducated sheep have jumped on board. It works well for them as they continue to plunder and steal from the American public. Keeping the American public stupid with our schools is working well for them. People should check out the curriculum of Christian academies in the south. I tutored a girl many years ago with her studies. She was doing 4th grade work and was 16 years old.

[JackKerouac77]

Mhmmmm yeah I don't know I'll tell you a-WAHT

www.dumpaday.com/.../redneck-meme.jpg

[Asker]

LOL :P
Is incest legal in Europe?

[Asker]

I mean is it socially acceptable to indulge in incest?

[JackKerouac77]

I'm not sure it's legal anywhere, but there are probably some places where it's not illegal (not a law on the books). It definitely still happens.

[Asker]

Yeah absence of law would make legal lol :P

[rjroy3]

Hahahahaha

[kheserthorpe]

On some issues, yes, on others, no.

Americans will argue, probably rightly, that they are more open minded when it comes to buying firearms, to being able to make choices about how much health insurance etc. to buy, about how to school your children, about freedom of speech, etc.

And on some issues like gay rights or abortion rights, whatever you think of them, it is NOT true that Europe is univerally more liberal than america.

[Asker]

Yeah i agree about the firearms but could it be because Europe is more "safer" compared to America? Insurance, etc is better in America i know but Europe has more religions secularism i feel...

[Asker]

Religious *

[asknaughtyguy]

asker: insurance is better in america? you're kidding, right?

[gotc147]

Greatly depends on your interpretation of safe @asker

Crime has always been low in Europe by comparison to America, their gun laws didn't change that, if anything, crime in Europe is going up while crime in the US is going down.

[DanAG]

Europe is probably the most liberal place in the world. Which is why I wouldn't want to live there. As for open minded, I really don't know, but have no reason to believe they are more open minded than the US.

Europeans seem to accept ever an increasing totalitarian government in the name of liberalism. Americans would never accept that.

[rose101]

I lived in Paris for 1 year and a half, 3 month in Germany. I don't think Europeans are that open minded. I had such a hard time. However, the law registrations are progressive because the law is tightly monitoring crooks and corruption. American politics are all about money.

[Asker]

Yeah corruption is much less in Europe i believe...

[SurströmmingLover]

less corruption in Europe? are you crazy?

[Asker]

But doesn't Europe have one the least corrupt countries in the world?

[HeyJustBeingMe]

I know the typical french people hate the language..
Im dutch however and i dont see why i would hate americans.. think thats the whole idea of being open minded.. accepting people for who and what they are rather then judging them for their backfround or where theyre from or what skin tonw they have.. thats leading to racism.

[kep79]

Because America is a newer country founded on the ideas of Enlightenment and freedom of religion. Enlightenment ideas makes American society more fair and Americans are happy with it. Also their religion makes them less open minded and liberal.

[Asker]

Many countries which have religion that originated in other countries are more religious than the original ones i believe. Not just America but that happens in other countries as well i think. Christians in other countries of asia, etc tend to be more religious than the Christians in Europe where Christianity originated...

[ChaosKilledTheDinos]

I'm not sure about Europeans but I think Canada is at least more liberal and open minded. Not every single person but for the most part they do at least seem to be more tolerant of difference and new ideas.

[Asker]

Ohh i didn't know about Canada...
Thats cool though :)

[Klaatu51]

unfortuntely most religion-obsessed people are Americans, so that's why Europeans are more open-minded.

[Asker]

Yeah i kinda agree with that

[Asker]

Europeans have to pay taxes to the church?

[ShaeNielson]

The churches are closing here though, since no one is showing up. @Asker

[Asker]

But most of those churches are quite the historical monuments aren't they? Most are greater than 100 years old i suppose?

[ShaeNielson]

Nobody cares really.

[Izzy2102]

I love how you used prostitution as a major symptom of a free society?

But no I don't think that is true. However europes conservatives are far less conservative than ours

[kheserthorpe]

I'm not sure that's true.

I think it may be true that center-right parties in Europe are less right wing than center right parties in america. However the more far-right in america is less likely to march around wearing matching uniforms and talk about protecting their racial purity.

[Izzy2102]

@ kheserthorpe ok I thought it goes without saying that we're talking about mainstream here

[Izzy2102]

@kheserthorpe

[Asker]

I just said in Europe you can avail prostitution without being judged. Europeans are not as judgmental as compared to Americans it seems...
That can be an indicator of a more free society?

[Izzy2102]

having lived in Europe , I disagree with you not being judged. You're being judged alright. The main difference I see there is the legal status, which is legal in some countries. And no that is not an indicator of a free society and was legal in ancient rome and they had slaves, it's legal in india and if I think of the opposite of a free country, india comes to mind

[Asker]

Yeah well in most countries (except Muslim ones) i think it is legal but not regularized. While in Europe it is regularized. But everywhere you are judged more i feel...
But do many people avail prostitution facilities in Europe?

[Izzy2102]

Ya that's just not true en.wikipedia.org/.../...tion_laws_of_the_world.PNG

I don't know if they do it more than men are but they are being judged for it just the same

[Asker]

Intersting article! :)
Do you feel making prostitution legal and regulated would reduce the cases of child trafficking, STDs and illegal brothels, etc?

[Izzy2102]

No not at all. There is some evidence suggesting that the best way to avoid that is to keep it illegal completely. There nothing I could find that would suggest that any kind legalization of it reduces human trafficking or sex slavery in any way

Will it reduce illegal brothels? that made me laugh, because ya it does it's making them legal

[Asker]

Ohh yeah sorry that was stupid :P

[rjroy3]

Legal prostitution is a liberal idea and is at it's core something a free society should have. I'm not a liberal, but many liberal ideas make sense. Drugs should be legalized. Sex for money should be legalized. Neither is any business of the government. So he's right to use that as an example of a free society.

[Izzy2102]

@rjroy3 as I told him there are many countries and cultures who legalizes prostitution and are oppressive like any other.
History has not proven to establish legal prostitution as a sign for a free society. If anything the opposite is true, at least though you'd have to admit though that it's neutral. whether prostitution is legal or not has nothing to do with how free a country
It's a very trivial issue and I think it's quite ridiculous to say it's a major sign of a free country. Instead of mention free speech, freedom of religion, marriage equality, universal healthcare, free education, social mobility, abortion or extensive welfare, all of which are clear and proven signs of a free country and in all of which Europe outperforms us, you choose to go for prostitution and that just baffles me. I mean what is wrong with people?

It might more on the agenda of liberals in the US, but legal prostitution is sure has hell not a liberal issue in general. As a matter of fact

[Izzy2102]

liberals in Germany are more for a Scandinavian model on the issue while conservatives like it the way it is. In the Uk restrictions on the existing law have been passed equally by conservative and liberal governments. In Australian territories the stand is fairly mixed, but there also is a trend of more liberals wanting to impose restrictions and stricter laws on it. I feel Australia doesn't really know what it wants, literally every review they publish underlines that the current law isn't working so attempt to make changes, which also don't work

But point is, don't look at the U. S. and assume that's how it is everywhere

[rjroy3]

I wouldn't call it a major sign, but the end game. In a free society it should be legal. The problems that arise from it could be solved by legalizing it. Requiring registration and licensing and making it a legitimate business so that the prostitutes are protected under the law and a brothel will only be shut down if drugs/under aged girls are found. Which would quickly become apparent even with a fake I. D. if you take away the benefit of having prostitutes that are minors while penalizing them for hiring them in their brothel it will make the owner weary and force him to be sure she's of age. No society in the world does that right now because they don't care. Some countries legalize it but they don't call for licensing

[rjroy3]

The alternative which is what we have now is the idea that we shouldn't allow it to be legal, because some people will/would break the law. That's the same as saying we shouldn't be allowed to have cars because some people would use it to run people over or to get away in a store robbery.

[Izzy2102]

@rjroy3 ya as I was also telling asker there is quite some evidence suggesting legalizing it makes the issues far worse and none suggesting it improves them.
So that's how the facts are, but I don't want to argue about because I find people that people who are dead set on legalizing it don't care about the evidence.
The Scandinavian model by the way offers all the benefits of what you stated without the negative side effect of legalizing it

Honestly though, I think if you think some of your points through and compare it to what the legal situation is in those countries, you'll find most of what you said to be completely irrelevant

[rjroy3]

Well my point was having licensing, because the no one does that. I'm not saying just legalizing it will be a good thing. I'm saying changing it into something that could work. Not dead set on just legalizing it, because the facts on that are well known. But since no one has done licensing, there's really no stats on that at all. There can't be.

But i agree, not really worth arguing the subject.

[Izzy2102]

@rjroy3 see that's what I mean. I don't know why you think that idea is so revolutionary? It's not. several countries went with that approach and it doesn't work.
Really not sure why you think no country uses licencing, because plenty do.

[Asker]

@rjroy3 i agree with you on the liscencing part, it can work if stricter rules are made and punishment is increased for those who disobey them. Like using proper protection, healthcare for prostitutes, minimum age, etc.
And even if it stays illegal, all that happens "underground" in reality and the cases of child trafficking, STDs, etc can be much higher in some underground illegal business. So the better option would be to legalize it and make strict rules on it rather than keeping it illegal which can cause all of those negative effects to happen "secretly"...

[Izzy2102]

See that's exactly my point. People keep saying that and it all sounds good in theory but it's unfortunately not true in reality. That's just how it, not sure what else to say to it

[Asker]

They can legalize it and make strict laws like forming a special commitee to deal with prostitution laws or something...
Surely such a model would be more beneficial than just keeping it all illegal and letting it secretly happen? Even corruption can increase when all that happens illegally...

[Izzy2102]

NO. No it's not. Not in any real life example. And even in theory it doesn't hold up if you think about it
In reality legalizing prostitution no matter how strict makes human trafficking and sex slavery worse.

[purplishone]

If i change one of them; Europeans :) If i can change whatever i want ; Australia and Canada :)

[evenlift]

I think it's just the case that most people are prejudiced in favour of whatever the status quo is in their society.

Most Europeans, for example, would not support the right to bear arms and are shocked that anyone could.

[Asker]

Yeah that's true...

[ShaeNielson]

Im gonna shut up after this, because I have commented quite a lot on this thread - But: No most of us does not support the right to bear arms. Here it is illegal to bear arms, and maybe thats something someone would say is a "violation" of ones right to freedom and protecting yourself. But, how often do you hear about a school shooting in America, versus how often do you hear about a school shooting in Europe?

[Asker]

@SheaNielson In a sense that makes Europe safer than America doesn't it?

[evenlift]

@ShaeNielson People seem to have an obsession with 'school shootings'. Yes, school shootings are terrible, but all murders are terrible. So, the only figure that actually matters is the overall murder rate. By that measure, the USA is quite a way down the list, though higher than many, though not all, European countries, as are, by the way, many other American countries, including American countries with very strict gun laws. This suggests that it's a cultural problem, stemming from the frontier spirit that built that the countries of the Americas. But, I suspect it's also to do with the war on drugs, which causes so much havoc throughout the Americas. Drugs should be legalized, by the way.

[gotc147]

@ShaeNielson crime, both gun related and otherwise, is FAR more commonplace in big cities in the US than it is out in rural areas.

Thing is, most people who own guns live in rural areas, not in big cities.

Several studies have been done on this subject in the past couple years, all of them disprove the notion that European - style gun control helps reduce crime. Except the ones that were paid for or conducted by anti-gun groups.

[ShaeNielson]

Maybe, but we still don't really have anyone getting shot, unless it's gang related.

[gotc147]

@ShaeNielson

Neither do we, 80% of the murders in the US are gang-related.

The shootings you hear about on the news in the US always happen in what we call "gun free zones" which are places those who are legally licensed to carry firearms for self-defense are not allowed to actually do so. The psychos who commit these shootings specifically target these places because they know nobody will be there who can fight back.

Of course, it doesn't help that in America we refuse to incarcerate criminals, we also refuse to get our mentally disturbed the help they need.

[Anonymous]

More liberal? Without a doubt. More open minded? No. Are there some issues that Europeans are more open minded than the average American? Sure. However, there are also some issues that Americans are more open minded than the average European.

[Asker]

Yeah true that...

[Anonymous]

No. They each have their own beliefs and are uncompromising in their beliefs of what is right and wrong. They simply have a different set of beliefs, that may or may not be compatible with other peoples beliefs.

[Asker]

Yeah but i think those beliefs even if they are uncompromising tend to bend more towards the "new age" ideas it seems...

[Opinion Owner]

New age doesn't mean more open minded. It is just a different set of values. They still want to force their beliefs on others. Such as forcing young girls to use the same locker room as a pre opt Transgender boy, just because he feels like a girl.

Ultimately they are forcing others to live by a different set of standards whether they want to or not. This isn't any more open minded. Deep down both sides are practicing fascism. They just have different fascist values.

[Asker]

Yeah i get your point...

[thomasjjeffy]

In the eastern Europe they are more open minded I think. On the west they're colder personalities in general. in my opinion.
North is shy why south is lazy and "carpe diem" :D

All parts have their pros and cons.

[Prof_Don]

Hard to judge... from what I've heard, western European countries and eastern European countries, aren't as culturally synced up as others would think.

[Asker]

So there are lots of cultural differences between western and eastern Europe?

[Prof_Don]

I've heard that there is

[Dionysos]

Depends how you define liberal.

They're a LOT more authoritarian than we are. Much more govt. Interference in your life.

[LittleSally]

Liberal and open minded - yes.
More open to legalizing prostitution and gay marriages - unfortunately (for the latter, not the former), no.

[Stuhlhocker]

liberal open minded? europeans? no not at all europeans are more close as americans never smile never talk to strangers "More open to legalizing prostitution and gay marriages " sounds like you come from belgium or netherlands in many european country is gay shit not allowed liberals are braindead fucktards pure brainwashed in the brain all gays and liberals better move to gay Canada because believe me many dont like that shit even if they say I dont care deep down they hate that gay shit.