A question for guys who are against feminism?

Coming from a third world country I am a bit confused about feminism by the terms of how American men see it. I never hear guys complain in my country about feminism. It has never been a issue or something guys ask me on dates or stuff like that. I was very shocked when I see what some men write on feminism when it comes to the internet and specifically from Americans. I see so much hate and it confuses me so much and makes me upset because in my country it simply means giving women the same advantages as men in terms of career fields and studies. Nobody here has a issue with that. I am not shunned away here or told I can't be dated just because of the fact that I support equal rights..

I am confused because whenever I see a man saying it's wrong or we are wrong then I feel like they are saying they think it's wrong that I want to also study say a career field that is more for guys or maybe receiving equal pay. So basically if you are against feminism does that mean you want me to stay at home and cook for you and clean? Do you want me to just be seen as a mother who cannot follow a professional career? I am quite shocked if this is what American guys want. . Guys here seem to like the fact that women are studying and want to contribute financially. Most guys here are happy about the fact that women can vote too and be part of businesses and not just be seen as home makers.

I also don't understand why American men think if I simply want equal rights it means I must hate men. I do not understand this logic. I do not get it. I do not hate men at all. I am a gentle person with love in my heart.

I am sorry if I offend someone but I want to understand why American guys in particular are so hostile towards feminism in comparison to guys in my country. Why is it wrong for me to simply say I want the same opprtunities as guys? Why is it wrong for me to not want to be like my mother who couldn't study her drea

Updates:
* dream career

Once again I'm not trying to debate. I want to understand why I am undesired by American guys for this.

0|2
0|32

Most Helpful Guy

  • firstly, you should know that places like here on GaG have a vitriolic hatred of feminism because a lot of the guys on here aren't good with women, and they attack feminism at every angle because its the best way they feel that they can get vengeance against the women that rejected them. Lets be clear though, this by no means means that feminism is pristine... far from it. I'm just trying to inform you that amongst the legitimate critiques of feminism, there are critiques that simply come from a place of hatred, both on GaG and on the internet in general

    Now to help you understand the issue... I'll tell you what the problem is. In a good portion of the western world, such as in the USA, men and women are already virtually equal. There's still some discrepancies in terms of the pay gap (which is way smaller than what feminists tend to claim, and not really proven to be caused by sexism) and how women are treated in the workplace sometimes, but by and large, women are able to pursue pretty much any career that they went to school for. There's nothing stopping a woman from achieving her dreams in 2015. But feminists still push this idea that the genders are still so disproportionally unequal, that they start to propose things that some interpret as an unfair advantage for women. They already do better academically according to recent data in the USA, and yet apparently the school system and the patriarchy is still oppressing them =/

    I don't really have the same kind of hatred for feminism as other men do, as i don't disagree with them on absolutely everything. I would still date a feminist with no issues at all, as long as they were respectful of my own views on things as well. You being from a third world country, I imagine the situation for women probably isn't so great, as it seems to be in many other third world countries. If i were you, I'd move to the west asap. You'll be treated a lot better over here

    7|2
    3|1
    • thanks for mho!

    • Show All
    • glad i could help :)

    • @Watermelonoma No. Feminism,(along with many other ism's) is a cult. It brainwashes people with its dogma including: the gender wage gap, [biologically?] equating men and women, gender studies being a valid degree choice, along with its lobbying to put into place mandates like Title IX and affirmative consent. And that is the tip of the iceberg. It is a wacky ideology.

      Feminism is not about equal rights. It's about elevating the status of the women in its cult.

      Sargon of Akkad has a good series on YouTube on what's wrong with Feminism. I recommend it because he's quite thorough.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua8T4nSTCWA

      Also, for the record I have limited, if any, issues with women even feminists (aside from opposing their ideology, naturally). The hate given to Feminism is more than warranted. It has indirectly, and possibly directly, weakened society as a whole.

What Guys Said 31

  • Hey there :). I think the whole men against feminism is overly exaggerated on the internet, it's really not like that in the states from what I've seen. The frlew guys that I have know that hate feminists are usually loser guys who feel threatened by a person who is more powerful and happens to be a woman, it kills their ego. For the most part, it's pretty rare.

    4|0
    0|0
  • FEminism in the developed countries, especially the US, isn't about equality Maybe 100 years ago it was, but now it's a corporate hustle, used by already privileged women to get even more privileges by victimizing or stigmatizing most men.

    . Not the bosses or the rich men, of course, our feminists BELONG totally to those men.. but they don't want equality for the rest of us.

    2|5
    3|0
  • I can understand your confusion coming from a third-world country where the disparity of rights is much more clear.

    Here in the US, women's rights have come so far that a lot of the issues up for debate these days are very fuzzy.

    For instance, the current average salary for a full-time woman is only 80% of that for a man. Sounds like an injustice, right? That's where feminism comes in with picket signs.

    But if you look farther into the number, you see women choosing jobs in education, administration, secretaries, etc. While dangerous or technical jobs tend to be dominated by men, including many jobs women have to interest in fighting for, like plumber, garbage pickup, construction worker, etc.

    You might hear that a woman with a Bachelhors earns less than a man with the same level degree. What they don't tell you is that she is a social worker (30-40K starting salary) and he is an engineer (Starting at 60K where I live. 90K national average.)

    That's when feminists start to argue "but social influences affect women going into cheaper fields and men going into richer fields". I don't deny the effect of social upbringing.

    But say a girl was raised to not like math, science, or engineering. Would it be responsible to tell her that she should go into a job she isn't interested in? Would it be respectful to tell her that she is not in control of her life, but is merely a victim of a patriarchal force?

    And again, why are we fighting for women to be doctors and engineers, but not construction workers and plumbers?

    Another big debate is abortion. Feminists in general make it out that the right to have an abortion is about the right to autonomy over one's body. Pro-life is seen as having the government control a woman's body, and pro-lifers are seen as anti-woman.

    However, the pro-life argument usually has nothing to do with that. The idea is that a woman's autonomy over her body does not have precedence over another's life. So once again, it isn't so clear cut. And pretty much all the pro-lifers I know are women.

    Then there are debates on child custody laws, fathers' rights, rape-reports vs innocent until proven guilty, etc.

    It's easier to say that the world is more equal when giving women special attention when women are stoned for being non-virgin, covered up, locked away, sold and traded. It's a little harder when the disparity is much smaller and less clear.

    1|1
    1|0
  • Because by its nature it is sexist. In order to be feminist you must first believe that 1) women are oppressed (otherwise it would be choice that holds them back) and 2) that its the fault of men (otherwise it would fall to women and therefore be a decesion ie a choice they made). It takes a very narrow and one sided view of both history and culture. One cannot claim they are for equality while looking at one side of the story while willfully ignoring the other. In most of the western world women where allowed to do most anything there where not laws against them working for instance (we have documents which mention several female blacksmiths in the 1400s england) except of course when it came to mining (it was deemed to dangerous for women so only men where allowed to risk there lives in the mines, I believe this came about in the early 1800s maybe 1700s). There is no pay gap to speak of in the western world and in fact its been proven that in some circumstances women actually make more then men. Masculinity is generally demonized which in the western world results in males being portrayed as bumbling idiots in comedies (especially when playing the role of a father) or as violent murderers/rapist in dramas. The irony being that domestic violence in the west is predominantly female initatated yet thanks to the feminist funded and backed duluth model of domestic violence police still treat men as the primary aggressor ie the abuser and women as the primary victim. Our school system has been taylored to fit the needs of women and girls which of course has ostricised the men and boys resulting in increasingly greater drop out rates and decrease in males graduating college (60% of all college graduates are female and that number is rising). Women rape men at the same rates as males rape women (hard to believe isn't it? Ironic since we always claim that we are equals, except where crimes are concerend) yet this fact is routinely ignored, again primarily thanks to feminism. In america our infrastructure is failing so our government was attempting to infuse funds into it to reastablish it. Feminist protested and lobbied against that since infrastructure consists of construction and manuel labor jobs the vast majority of which are held by men, they claimed that was sexist. Our government acquiesed and the funds where shifted towards more female focused endevours.(our infrastructure is still falling apart).

    0|0
    0|0
    • Then of course we have the issues that effect men being ignored like a 4x higher suicide rate (5x higher in russia and slightly less then 5x higher in south africa) yet its ignored. So is the fact that 80% of victims of violent crimes like assualt/muggings/murder are male (yet we put such emphasis on the safety of women) In most countries the fighting force is almost entirely male (14% in the US) and male combat death rate of over 90%. Of course we also have the issue of women being allowed into the military and fire departments. The problem isn't that there allowed to be apart of these groups but rather the testing is not the same for men and women. Women have a much lower bar in order to be "fair" to women which endangers their lives as well as the lives of others. Feminst organizations have lobbied against fathers rights (Like the National Organization for Women) ensuring that the mother is viewed as the primary care giver.

    • Show All
    • You must believe something is valuable in order to illicit as strong a protective instinct that men have shown in the form of feminism, to go so far as to ignore there own experiences and suffering, the data and statistics to view women as victims in need of saving. Its an exploitation of the males natural protective instinct. Thats why feminist who claim women are strong and independent always portray themselves as weak and helpless when they want something, to get men to respond as they are biologicly inclined to do, find the source of the threat and remove it. Only feminist claim its men themselves, which is where the anger comes from, its a programing loop if you will. We are the protectors but also the enemy (as far as feminism has framed it) this causes men to become dejected, dispondent, and angry. How feminism is believed to be equality I have no idea seeing as how it is contradicted by logic/history/science/statistics.

    • I appologize for my comment being so long, I doubt you'll read it but please try to prefferably with an open mind. If you would like links to the data just ask.

  • Does it really make sense that men in my country just want to oppress women and ensure that they do not have equal rights? Because that's a pretty low estimate of men in general and American culture specifically.

    Here's the deal, with the exception of a few idiots, most of us aren't really against women just because we're against feminism. Most of us recognize feminism as it exists in our culture to be a flawed ideology. I personally sided with feminists until a few years after high-school. I rejected it after seeing some pretty cult-ish and self-serving behavior.

    One of the biggest examples of this, and one of my biggest pet-peeves about feminism in my culture, is that feminism in my country has been hijacked and now mostly serves to further advance the power and prestige of working, professional, middle-to-upper class, white women.

    The Marxist class warfare argument that feminism has waged on men in my country is ludicrous. One simple example to help visualize this problem would be this scenario: A white female lawyer explaining to a wounded, homeless, minority veteran how privileged he is because he's male. It doesn't fit, it's not valid. Clearly the woman has far more power because of her station. It has NOTHING to do with gender.

    I've had years to think about it. I could go on for a very long time.

    0|0
    0|0
  • don't u understand? those guys have been rejected 1k times by gals, and now they assume feminism's da "evil"... they r the ones who make themselves oppresed actually LOL

    6|2
    1|6
  • In America, it's a different thing i believe. The majority of women there want more than equality, they want power now without giving caring about equality anymore.

    Here, take a read on this take (yes, read the whole thing):
    www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a23145-the-reasons-behind-why-i-will-never-stand-beside-feminists-their

    I'd say America has taken this a bit too far.

    0|0
    0|0
  • Feminism in the USA, 99% of the time, means some militant women screaming that she can do everything an man can do and she doesn't need any special treatment.
    However, when it comes to dating, she sure doesn't reach for the check when it comes time to pay for anything.
    That is the primary issue I have with it.
    Also, there are things women cannot do, or at least not as good as men.
    Just like there are things that men cannot do, or at least not as good as women.
    So they should be more realistic.

    1|1
    2|0
  • It's all the radicals in the movement here. American and Canada have some serious bat shit crazy feminists. If you're really that worried just say you believe in equal rights. That part most American men don't have a problem with except for the serious assholes who actually do think women are less. But when most American guys hear a girl call herself a feminist they aren't hearing the girl wants equal rights they are hearing that the girl believe the male gender is less. Feminism has been coming a long way but there were these protests at a university in Toronto with a bunch of psycho feminists and they ironically have sent the feminist movement back decades in the eyes of men.

    2|1
    1|0
  • I think there's a disconnect between feminism in the third-world and what it has evolved into in the first-world. It was originally what you're describing - equal rights, ability to work in the work force with men, study whatever you want, etc. - but somewhere along the way it morphed into something it didn't originally intend to be.

    There are two types of women that I've come across: 1) those that expect special treatment from guys for no other reason than being girls, and 2) those that punish guys for giving them special treatment because it somehow belittles them.

    The first are fairweather feminists. They expect x, y, and z from a guy despite being capable of doing it themselves, and offer no sense of appreciation when or if he does it. And if he doesn't do it then he gets shamed for "not being a real man" or "not being a gentleman".

    The second are feminazis. Even if a guy does something nice for her unprompted, like paying for her or walking her home at night, he has done something wrong and she lets him know, either directly or passive aggressively.

    I've come across both types of women and I do not like either. No sane guy would ever try to take away your equality amongst us guys, but there are women who take this sense of equality too far and guys wind up suffering for it. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Welcome to "new-wave feminism" in the first world.

    0|1
    1|0
  • It's because women in America have more rights than men now, but feminists try to make up new ways to hate men.

    For example, the feminists on my campus used to harass guys for no reason. One of them demanded I sign some petition to ban anti-feminist speech on campus. I told her this is a university; debate is the source intelligence and learning and censorship caused only ignorance. She called me a rapist and screamed to everyone that I have tried to touch her. I almost got beaten up by other men who blindly believed her. Somehow, SHE was the victim in her mind.

    That is feminism in American. It's not about equal rights anymore. They have that. If it were about equality, why has no feminist EVER protested the prison gap? Or the degree gap? They don't give a damn about men, they only care about women. If they would admit this, it wouldn't be such a big deal.

    You just understand: you're in a country that needs feminism. In America feminism won, but didn't stop. Now it's just about censoring debate and promoting women over men.

    They will call me a mysoginist. That's their bogeyman. That's how they silence dissent. And it disturbs me because it's not true at all. My mother was a feminist and I love her. With one exception, my girlfriends were strong, independent women. That's why I dated them. They didn't needed the council of feminism to tell them what they could and could believe, think, or question. And they didn't take shit from men either.

    0|0
    0|0
  • I am not American. But, you are misinformed about feminism. To start, read this:
    www.google.co.uk/url

    1|2
    2|0
    • I don't agree with almost anything claimed there about me or my beliefs... I know the definition of feminism. It's not easy to find. When people start adding things to the definition it makes me feel a bit angry because as I say I'm not used to that kind of stuff being said about me or people in my country who support equal rights.

      just because that is feminism in your country doesn't' mean it's the same everywhere else in the world.

    • Show All
    • Uhm the definition of apartheid perfectly captures what it is and what it involves as a basis. I don't understand why you would think elsewise. The principles stay the same. Some people just execute it differently or interpret things to fit their own needs and agendas.

    • So, you don't think there would be a significant likelihood that a dictionary produced in apartheid-era South Africa might contain a positively-biased definition of 'apartheid'? You wouldn't question it?

  • No, most of us don't have a problem with equality. What we have a problem with lies, hypocrisy and double-standards.

    2|2
    1|0
  • Oh Gosh yes.. I was also confused of why feminism had such a bad rep when I came over here in the West.. I too is from the third world.. It's because the issues of the western feminism is different to third-world or post colonial feminism.

    Read my comment on this take.. only if you want
    www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a9317-an-open-letter-addressed-to-all-those-who-think-feminism-is-overrated

    1|1
    1|1
  • Hmm... Let me give you an example:

    In my country (Denmark) there is a feminist columnist for one of the big newspapers. Her mother was a famous feminist pundit, and now she has sort of taken over the mantel. She writes columns about the problems Danish women have with men. She makes fun of men. And not really powerful men. Just, you know, your average creep or idiot. And she's hardly alone.

    To me, that just seems weird. You're basically the second generation of a dynasty of people with a powerful voice in the public debate. And what you have decided to use that voice for is bashing men in general, especially loser men.

    As a loser man myself, I just. Don't. Get it.

    0|1
    1|0
    • Yeah I see why you don't get it. I don't get it either because I would never bash people like that male or female. I don't want to make fun of people or bring people down. I think some people just have issues and use a title to hide under to make themselves feel safer but women like that should be called out on.

    • Thanks. You seem really smart and kind.

  • feminism in a lot of first world countries has surpassed "equality" by far and is now only about "more women rights" and men hate having a lot of double standards in favor of women.

    2|2
    1|0
    • what are some of the double standards?

    • Show All
    • feminism is the movement fighting for equal rights for women. there are no legal laws against women, are there? there are only those in favor of women. but none in favor of men.

    • where there´s no injustice, a movement for equality is futile.

  • Here's the thing you must always remember. Americans don't speak English. Words there have different meanings, so in effect, they speak American.

    Outside of America and America-wannabe countries, feminism stands for gender equality. This is the version of feminism you know.

    Inside America, feminists are no longer fighting for equality, they are fighting for female domination, and male subjugation, but they still pretend to be fighting for "equality". Men in these countries see through their bullshit and are therefore angry at feminists.

    It's not that men are against equal rights, more that we are against bullshit.

    0|0
    0|0
  • I believe in equal rights for women
    the Internet will blow things out of proportion

    4|0
    0|1
  • I don't have anything against equal right for women and men and if feminism was 100% about that then I would also be a supporter. The sad truth though is that there are way too many things in feminism that are aimed at making women stronger, and men weaker. I feel that as feminism grows stronger men will have a worse situation especially regarding the law. False rape accusations, ownership of children in broken families and stuff like that are things that some poor fellas are going to have to go trough because of feminism. There are just too many cons that outweigh the pros in feminism for me, and that is why I'm not too fond of it.

    I am by no means saying that all feminists are extreme or man-hating, but they exist and give feminism a bad image today.

    0|1
    1|0
  • Guys in America are against Feminism IN America, not in other countries.

    Most American feminists are radical terrorists. Most feminists believe that men are evil and born rapists. They think that men ought to be killed, just because they are men.

    Since there is such an aggressive anti-male skewing in American Feminism most men have strongly negative feelings towards it, myself included. Many arguments for Feminism in America are broken, such as a belief in a wage gap or that men cannot be victims of rape. Most educated men and women know that feminism is not needed in America but feminists still demand action against men.

    I believe the difference between American men and men in your country is that Feminism is needed where you live and not in America. Feminists in your country have a noble cause that they fight for while Feminists in America want free abortion and fat acceptance.

    I hope I answered your question, and I can clarify if I haven't made sense.

    0|0
    0|0
  • Feminism is cancer.

    Basically men are the reason why bad things happen to everyone. Why the fuck would I support something that has been telling me Im a bad person, simply because I am male, since the ripe age of 14?

    1|2
    1|0
  • I am Irish, and never classify women. I just take them as they are and show them respect.

    I think people are both silly and self defeating when they choose to label people. Mainly for a label is all about perception

    2|0
    0|0
  • Perhaps in this link :

    (https://www. reddit. com/r/AskMen/comments/xkzpq/what_is_your_opinion_of_feminism/)

    you will find some highly reasonable guys speaking about why they dislike feminism. Some of the opinions there reflect very well what our experience with feminists is like.

    0|0
    0|0
  • im against feminism, not man-woman equality, so it's too long to read, can you please ask this in a short way?

    0|2
    1|0
    • I can't summarize my feelings on a issue like this. I have to explain myself otherwise some people will come on here and try to twist my words or put words in my mouth.

    • sorry if you dont ask the question shortly, i can't answer it, because it's too long :)

    • Okay don't worry

  • women have full equality now we males just need more rights to catch up with femaales like not always being expected to ask the opposite sex out sometimes they should ask us out too and not having to always pay for your partners meals when on a date.

    0|1
    1|0
  • some feminists have ruined it in 1st world countries by trying to dominate men.

    0|0
    0|0
    • Ruined? Do you even understand how blessed you are to be living in a 1st world country. Please try living in third world countries and then ask yourself if your country is really that ruined...

    • not the country the feminist movement

    • Oh I see well I agree with that completely

  • I am just lmaoing at neckbeard Wk nerdy virgins in comments here lol

    0|0
    0|0
  • It's simple. Men against feminism are animals.

    0|0
    0|0
  • Feminism is just a cult that hates men and destroys the family unit.

    0|0
    0|0
  • Until feminists fight to have that false rape accuser "mattress girl" from Columbia University to be thrown in jail I will never believe anyone that says feminism is about equality and is for men as well as women. Time and time again it has only proven to be about punishing men for being men. Every opportunity they have to help a specific male out against a crime against them that is wrong because he's a man feminists just spit on him only proving that feminism hates men. No one that identifies as a feminist is trying to help out the male Colombia university student. So no I will never see any feminist as a person that cares about men in the slightest.

    0|1
    0|0
  • More from Guys
    1

What Girls Said 0

No girls shared opinions.

Loading...