Should men be allowed to 'opt out' of fatherhood during the child's pregnancy?

"Since June, Laurie Shrage has opened email after email from desperate men.

A few told of being forced to drop out of college to support a child they’d accidentally fathered, even as the children’s mothers pursued an education with help from child support payments.

One man said he believed the woman who filed a paternity suit against him secretly intended to get pregnant, to boost her lifestyle with child support payments. Some men say women told them they were on birth control, or were infertile.

And then there were men who simply regretted how that one night stand unwittingly resulted in 18 years of child support.

“These men could be exaggerating,” Ms. Shrage, professor of philosophy and women’s and gender studies at Florida International University, said in an interview with the National Post. “But under our current law, it really could happen.”

...

“In consenting to sex,” she writes, “Neither a man nor a woman gives consent to become a parent.” "

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/opting-out-women-can-have-an-abortion-some-men-say-they-should-have-a-choice-over-parenthood-too

Do you believe men should be allowed to opt out of financial and legal responsibilty for the child?

  • Yes, men should be allowed to opt out of financial and legal responsibilty for their unborn child.
    20% (8)34% (14)27% (22)Vote
  • Men should be allowed to opt out of financial and legal responsibilty for their unborn child, but must share any costs involved in the pregnacy.
    10% (4)22% (9)16% (13)Vote
  • No, men should not be allowed to do this. If the chid is born, they are financially responsible.
    63% (26)32% (13)48% (39)Vote
  • Other (Please explain below).
    5% (2)5% (2)5% (4)Vote
  • I don't know.
    2% (1)7% (3)4% (4)Vote
And you are? I'm a GirlI'm a Guy
Updates:
The entire "if you didn't want kids, don't have sex" argument means that surely you must be against abortion too.

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Most Helpful Girl

  • The only reason I feel is valid to opt out is if a woman made holes in the condom or went fishing for the condom and sperm in the trash can to insert herself with your seamen.

    Otherwise you are responsible. I always use condoms even if the sexual pleasure is slightly less (women feel less to), but men always ask to do it without. I think that's insane, in many ways.

    If you don't want a baby as a man, you take the responsibility in your own hands. Just like women who absolutely don't want to get pregnant take the responsibility in their own hands.

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    • I agree with you about the condoms. I'd never have sex without them. Not because I don't trust her, it just seems like too big a risk.

What Girls Said 16

  • I voted A. As it is men have no say in whether the baby's kept or not, so they shouldn't have to deal with the consequences of whatever the girl chooses.
    It's not fair to say that guys shouldn't have sex is they're not willing to father a child. Surely then we could say, single moms shouldn't have opened their legs either?

    It's not fair at all that women get all control when it comes to having a baby

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  • This is what I think should happen. He's the retard that didn't use a rubber. And it's really disgusting to me for people to not want to help pay for kids they fathered because of their retardation.

    BUT there are a lot of women who want to trap men for stupid crap like this. So I think they should be allowed to opt out. It will teach a lot of these stupid women to stop getting pregnant while expecting him to pay and it will sever the ties that man has to his child... because he will NEVER be allowed to associate with that child. EVER.

    This is what I think should be done.

    Again, I don't know what kind of pussy wouldn't pay for something that he caused if he didn't wear a rubber. For men who were stupid enough to leave their condom on the floor and their girls used a turkey baster... or guys who didn't wait to see if the toilet fully flushed... You're idiots.

    For guys who were told that their girls were on the pill but they lied? That's not fair.

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    • Condoms aren't 100% effective.

      And proving that she got pregnant deliberately and lied to him is next to impossible afaik.

    • "Condoms aren't 100% effective."

      No duh. But it's better than the pull-out method and if they're not old, he has a 99 percent chance which are still good odds. And if she's on the pill, he should watch her take it if he's that neurotic.

      "And proving that she got pregnant deliberately and lied to him is next to impossible afaik."

      And that's why you do the things I suggested. You watch her take the pill. You WATCH the condom go down the toilet. Hell, keep the condom ON YOUR DICK if you're afraid of her trying to plunge it out as you leave. You can get your tubes tied (though make sure to have sperm backed up). There are many things for guys to take precautions of. A lot of them just don't do it.

  • do you know how many single moms there would be? with no child support... I understand your point of u where its not fair that guys aren't given a choice whether the fetus is aborted or not, but at the same time girls aren't given a choice to have periods every month, just so one day we can bare a baby for 9 months... the men that were lied to about the pill or lack there of, shouldn't be obligated too take care of the baby, but in most situations its still the female that ends up taking care of the child. Guys need to be more careful, and wear condoms, unless u are prepared for a child. Both sexes are aware of what happens when they have sex, but most dont take pregnancy into consideration--which is where these situations occur in the first place...
    Lets get to Abortion... Im completly pro obviously but because it relates to the girls body. They are expensive, and I believe painful. And like I said, its our body so we can do what we want, however the baby that comes out of the body belongs to both parents. This is due to biology, and the lack of choice women get from giving birth to kids

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    • You have all the choice. If you choose to not abort and he doest want the kid it should be one hundred percent your responsibility.

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    • @heavensgift2girls Yeah i have to agree that situation is rather foul!

    • And if thats what men choose then thats what they choose it should be their choice. Women simply shouldn't sleep with such men.

  • Given my total lack of experience with children, I have no real feelings on the matter. I feel like it's a bit of a cop out though so I voted B.

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  • My sons father basically "opted out" when i was was pregnant and to this day he still isn't around. he says he will tell my son the real truth when he is an adult and wants my son to find him on his own. I get a lot of backlash from friends and family for not going after him for child support.. but i can't help but think that if i did how shitty it would be for my son since he wanted an abortion from the beginning. i would hate to have to "force" my sons father to give any kind of support because i dont want there to be any more hard feelings than there already is. and if it came down to it i wouldn't want him to take anything out on my son. so in some ways yes. i think men should be able to opted out of a pregnancy. women do it all the time.

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  • most people who need child support actually need it. It costs roughly 245,500 to raise the average American child. I don't know many women who have that much just sitting around or make thy much alone. I know my dad couldn't have raised me alone nor could my mom. They both needed money to give me the opportunities I've gotten.
    Also why don't guys wear condoms more? Even when I was on birth control I made my boyfriend wear a condom. Does no one else do that or worry

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    • "Also why don't guys wear condoms more?" - I agree; I don't get that.

      The issue is that if a woman says she is on birth control and i insist on wearing a condom, she might think I was not trusting her and to an extent she might be right.

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    • I think the talk for me was an awkward 5 minute chat with both my parents in the car. I must have asked some weird question and they thought "now or never".

      Too many people these days get their sex ed from the internet (which is half filled with porn).

    • I got it from the internet but I looked up real shit from doctors because I didn't want to get pregnant or get herpes

  • Absolutely not. It doesn't matter if it was an accident, that is his flesh and blood and he fathered it, therefore he is responsible to assist in making sure that child is taken care of. Know who you're sleeping with, use protection or remain abstinent if you don't want children.

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    • I'd agree but I just hate the idea of being tricked by someone and being stuck giving them money forever. I want a family and this would be a sham that I could never get rid of. The thought of it scares me.

    • I don't see how anyone can "trick you" into having a baby unless you are referring to people who sabotage condoms, which is why I say know who you're having sex with. That child is yours, anybody who could just opt out and abandon their child is not a good person to me. I wouldn't care if it was a mistake... if that child is mine, I would never leave him or her behind.

    • I don't have kids so I'm not sure how I would feel about it. I may decide to support the kid no matter what.

      One issue is that it seems that the mother gets paid for supporting the child. Whenever I hear a lawsuit for child support, it's the mother suing the father. That is bound to create resentment.

      Also, are you so against abortion? I'm generally curious on your thoughts on this as I struggle to see a clear difference.

  • If it's your kid then it's your responsibility. Do you think a woman who asked a guy to not come inside her is entitled to walk away from the baby when it's born? No.

    This is ridiculous. If you don't want kids then use a fucking condom. If it fails get the morning after pill. This is a risk of having sex, nothing is 100% effective. If the woman lies then more fool you for believing her and trusting your future to someone else.

    You fucked her then it's your problem too, no worming out of it.

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    • "Do you think a woman who asked a guy to not come inside her is entitled to walk away from the baby when it's born?" - Adoption?

      "If the woman lies then more fool you for believing her and trusting your future to someone else." - That doesn't make many sense. Every day we trust our future's to other people. If the pill or condom didn't work, are we fools for trusting the company that makes them? If the man said he was infertile and got the woman pregnant, would you say "more fool you"?

      If 'fucking her' means we can't 'worm out' of the consequences, then do you believe abortion should be banned?

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    • Well that's your belief but I think abortion should be allowed to an extent and that means that the needs of the child aren't always more important than those of the parents.

      Well I'm not actually sure if they should or not. Hence, why I asked this question. If it was to be allowed, I think it should only be in cases where the guy was drunk, is quite young (e. g. 18) and he decided to opt out (of both parental rights and responsibilities) before the child was born.
      It's just the fact that once a child has been conceived, the man is reduced to a bystander to a decision that will completely change his life forever doesn't feel right to me.

      It's a difficult situation that is quite complicated and is hard to compromise on as neither of us can see it from the perspective of the other gender.

    • It comes down to the fact that sometimes you can't have total equality in the decision making process and that's just life, sometimes it isn't fair but walk away because you were drunk? What does that teach him? That he can just shirk responsibilities. Men often mention adoption when discussing abortion and such but I really dont think they have any comprehension what it's like to carry a life inside you, grow it and then give it away...

      As for just allowing young men to pretend it isn't theirs well... that's just wrong in every level. I understand why you are suggesting it but it's not right and will never happen.

  • Unless this woman stole the man's sperm or used deceptive tactics to get pregnant, he is 100% responsible for depositing his sperm in her and all the little consequences that may pop up.

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  • The issue with this opting out is that so many men would choose this option instead of helping bring up the child they concieved. That's not exactly fair either.

    Also, comparing abortion with this is completely non-relevant. One is KILLING a feotus and the other is refusing to pay for the upbringing a living child just because you don't feel like it. Huge difference.

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    • "Also, comparing abortion with this is completely non-relevant. One is KILLING a feotus and the other is refusing to pay for the upbringing a living child just because you don't feel like it. Huge difference."

      That is kind of why I asked the question: I don't understand the difference. If abortion is allowed then society has accepted that adults can avoid the consequences of conception and that the rights of the conceived fetus are not absolute. Why does it suddenly become absolute after childbirth?

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    • I suppose that would be a good compromise.

      The situation is complicated and I don't think there's one perfect solution.

    • Yeah you're right

  • At the end of the day, if a man has sex and doesn't take adequate precautions to prevent pregnancy then he should be partly financially responsible.

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  • If the mother isn't allowed to opt out then have fun raising YOUR child with her. You both made the decision to have sex. It takes two people to make it, takes two to raise it.

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    • But she can opt out. It's called abortion. This argument has started because of the increased control women have over the consequences of sex while men have got increased responsibilities but that's it.

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    • If you have a child you should take care of it. That's my point. If the mother has an abortion then congrats, you don't have to be a father, but please step up, be a man, and take care of your mistakes.

    • My issue with that is that just because it hasn't been born yet, doesn't mean it's worthless. I support abortion not because I think the unborn child is worthless but because of the balance between the mother's needs and the child's needs. I support men being able to opt out for the same reasons.

  • you have a right to opt out of fatherhood but not financial support think about how the child will feel when he or she is born and how they will feel growing up without their biological Dad in their life and think about what you will be missing out on

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    • Sucks for them that their parents are degenerates then, you aren't going to have some loving family either way.

  • Problem is, it's about the child. Is it fair to ask the rest of us, through government taxes, to support those fatherless kids of struggling single moms, or should we ask the person who gave the kid half his/her DNA to do that? Once the child exists in the world, we have a responsibility to care for it, so if you want fathers to be able to opt out, everyone else will have to pick up the slack. And kids are expensive. I doubt even child support payments cover all that's involved, especially daycare since the mom would need to work - it's crazy expensive.

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    • Best would be if we pushed for more emphasis on practicing safe sex, and making birth control easily accessible and available. The difference between the abortion conflict and whether fathers should pay is that once an abortion occurs, no one has responsibility for that child. It doesn't exist, there's no money or time needed to care for it, etc. Once a child is in our society though, we've decided we have an obligation to ensure its care and safety. One way we do that is making sure fathers can't walk away easily after fathering a child. If not, we'd have many more kids that the rest of society will have to care for in the absence of fathers, which is money out of the government and everyone else's pocket. So that's an obstacle to consider.

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    • Also just because abortion will still happen is not an argument against making it illegal. Its an act that harms another human being the same as murder. Murder is illegal and people still do it. We just dont allow those sickos to be in civilized society like normal people. We lock them away with the other animals.

    • Well, I don't see abortion on par with murder, so that's just a fundamental difference in our perspectives. I also think we should take the consequences of letting men walk away from any kids they father and leave in the world seriously, so that's another.

  • No absolutely not! You can't just knock a girl up and then leave her, that's cowardly! In most cases she didn't ask to become pregnant either, it's not fair that she is the one who must take all the responsibility.
    If a man leaves his children, society is just like "Well, he probably just weren't ready for the responsibility" but if a woman does the same, she will face far worse judgement, and be marked as a horrible human being.
    No one can leave their children and still be a good person.

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    • It's not that simple. The couple may not even be 'together' in the first place. It may be a one night stand or a really casual relationship. I've no intention of being involved in one of either of them but many do.

      Also, men can get locked up for missing child support payments and some have their lives and finances destroyed trying to meet them. It's not as simple as people saying "Well, he probably just weren't ready for the responsibility". The law certainly doesn't say that.

    • That doesn't matter? Why should she be "stuck" with it, just because it's her, who will be pregnant with the child? Just because you're the dad, doesn't mean you can just say "Nah, I don't think so" and then leave.

      You think the father is the only one paying for the child? The mother throws just as much money at that kid.

      Maybe the law doesn't, but society does. It's way more acceptable (and common) for a father to leave his family, than it is for a mother.

    • the mom can get an abortion or put the kid up for adoption. and its not accepted for either to leave but no one is asking for it to be socially acceptable but legally

  • If they do not want responsibility for it then don't put your dick in something anytime u have sex there is a chance of pregnancy it should not solely rely on the mother because the mother didn't lay down on her own just like if the father had custody of said child the mother should have to pay child support plain and simple

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    • So abortion should be banned too?

    • I don't think u should have an abortion unless someone rapes u and pregnancy was the result or incest or something

    • I understand that. At least you're consistent. What bothers me is the entire "my body, my choice" when women are talking about abortion and "you had sex, now pay the price" argument when women are talking about child support.

What Guys Said 21

  • Yes. Parenthood should be treated just like any other contract. The woman should be legally allowed to abort the baby, unless she has previously agreed to have it. And the father should be legally allowed to disclaim responsibility, unless he has previously agreed to have it.

    But, is this legal change going to happen? No. There are several reasons. 1. The ethics of altruism. 2. Most men's desperate lust for women. 3. The increasingly-bankrupt welfare state. 4. The declining birth rates.

    That said, with the male birth control pill or injection due to be released in the next decade or so, soon this problem may become nearly-universally redundant.

    I'd also add that the one of the reasons that the pro-choice movement is losing and has been for quite a while is its hostility towards men. Many men think, "If I can't disclaim my responsibility for my child, why should women be allowed to disclaim theirs?" It doesn't help the pro-choice movement that the prevailing ethical code is on the side of the unborn.

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    • The tax hike for legislating this right for men to waive parental responsibility, would be enormous. I don't know about you, but I don't want to pay de facto child support for kids who aren't mine!

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    • Well u can theorize all you want, no politician is going to vote Yes on this bill lacking increase taxation and funding for the children. The women's vote is a significant percentage. of the population , and that politician will lose that percentage for the rest of their career for voting Yes, thus ruining that person's career.

      Now THAT is what you call "one's rational self interest". That idea won't even become a bill TO be voted on. It's personal suicide for the politicians to even be SLIGHTLY associated with this!

    • @Prof_Don Well, I agree with that. But, that's not going to make me change my view or stop expressing it. And, as I say, it doesn't impinge on the merit of my proposals.

      I will disagree with one thing you said, though. It's not the women's vote. It's the feminist, traditionalist, ultimately altruist, vote, and that includes almost all people of both sexes. There are very small minorities of both sexes that agree with me. Objectively, there are no policies that are good or bad only for one sex, or one race, or one whatever. A policy is good for the individual or bad for the individual.

  • If a women can opt out through abortion (which I support the right to) a man should be able to opt out financially. Just make it so he has to decide yes or no before it's born and if he chooses yes, he's stuck with it.

    If a man wants to keep it and the women doesn't, it gets aborted.

    If a woman wants to keep it and man doesn't, he has to pay child support for a few decades.

    That is bullshit. You cannot argue equality with laws so gynocentric.

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    • If this right for men to waiver parental responsibility is legislated, the tax increase would be insanely high! In short you would have extra money taken out of your paycheck, against your will, to pay for children who are NOT yours!

      Do u really want to pay de facto child support for kids who are not your own?

    • @Prof_Don I am absolutely willing to share the burden of my nation's children for the sake of men being treated fairly.

    • That's admirable! Most would be in the minority, because the idea of something sounds good until one's paycheck is one the line. :-P

  • The law contradicts itself on this.

    On one hand, the female has total ownership rights over the unborn baby--this thus the right to abortion.

    On the other hand, men have legal responsibility over the unborn child through his legal responsibility to provide.

    Four thousand years of common law and legal philosophy demonstrate these two to be completely contradictory. Women can't have their cake and eat it, too.

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    • That's what bothers me.

      When guys bring this up, some women shout the idea down by saying that the guy has to deal with the consequences of sex. But when it comes to abortion, they sing an entirely different tune.

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    • You are absolutely correct that the law contradicts itself. If the DNA of the man in the fetus are indeed a part of the woman's body, then I see no reason why the man should be held accountable for the child once it has been born. It goes from being (his DNA), to (her body), to (his responsibility). That clearly contradicts itself. It was either always a part of his body, or he has no obligation. Even if she digs the condom out of the trash he is still responsible just because of DNA.

      We are developing the technology to take DNA from anyone and create sperm and egg cells. They are also working on ways to have a child outside of the woman's body. Can you imagine what would happen if you could have a child with any woman and her not even be aware of it? Once women can become a parent without her permission I believe a lot of the laws will finally change. It just won't happen until women can start being victimized the same way men can be. In possibly 20 years this won't be an issue.

    • Are u willing to put your money where your mouth is? The tax increase would be significant because the welfare state would need more funding, and that money has to come from sonewhere ! income tax increase - de facto child support for kids who aren't yours.

      Similar to Health Care Reform , the idea SOUNDS good until the tax ramifications are in, then people bitch about the legislation because they are "paying for other ppl's poor life choices ".

  • I generally believe that if you father a child, you just be forced by law to take care of it - not only financially, but also otherwise (unless you are a danger to the child). I think it's already bad enough that many men just transfer some money and believe they've done sooooo much work for this child when in reality, they haven't done shit and they don't even know what it's like to bring up a child
    However, to stop certain women from trapping men into parenthood, I think it would be a nice idea to have some kind of form that the woman has to sign. It would basically say something like "hereby I (name) declare that I am taking the pill". So if the woman suddenly gets pregnant and she goes like "ey, you have to take care of your child", you can just have your lawyer wave this paper in her face and say "sorry lady, you agreed to use contraception. Since you lied to my client and he had sex with you (and didn't use condoms) under circumstances he couldn't know, he won't have to pay for this child"
    But to be honest, I personally would pay child support even if I didn't have to legally speaking. It's just a moral imperative I think. You're not doing it for the girl you banged, you do it for the child. Because the child is the victim of this whole crap. It wasn't asked to be born and now it's here, so it deserves to be taken care of.

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  • Female hypocrisy on this topic is shocking. You guys are pro-choice for women but not for men. You want to tell men "if you don't want kids don't have sex", but then if an anti-abortionist says the exact same thing to you, you think that's unfair and that you have every right to have as much sex as you want and kill your unborn baby. So basically you think men should have responsibility and that only you should have an "out". Hypocrits, the lot of you.

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  • Nope, you made your bed now lay in it. That child is yours, enjoy parenthood.

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    • Yes, abortion is murder in my eyes. Plus nobody tells you how painful abortions are on the mother. I'm waiting until marriage to have sex so I don't face these problems.

    • At least you're consistent. As I said to another answerer: what bothers me is the entire "my body, my choice" speech when women are talking about abortion and "you had sex, now pay the price" argument when women are talking about child support.

      I wonder would you have gotten 3 up votes from girls if you had "abortion is murder" in the opinion.

  • I say C-Support Exemption (Financial Abortion) should be legal, but heavily regulated under these conditions to keep people from taking advantage

    1) The women gets pregnant by unusual means (Sperm Stealing or Sabotage)
    2) Deceit (Saying she's on the pill when she's not)
    3) Malicious intent (Intent to grab Child Support)
    4) The guy can't afford to pay (If he ends up losing a house or car)
    5) Not actually his child (which is why I also propose mandatory paternity tests)

    All these things would have to be proven, but it could cut out some of the bull

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  • No, men should not be allowed to do this. If the chid is born, they are financially responsible.

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  • Of course they should be allowed to opt out. Women opt out of pregnancy all the time with abortions, leaving an expecting father devastated. Just like it's not fair to force a woman to keep a child, it's not fair to force a father into parenthood.

    Women can keep reproductive rights, but men should be given the right to opt out/deny child support too. It's 100% not fair that men are given contraceptive responsibility, no reproductive rights, and full financial responsibility. You always hear women crying and bitching about having to take the pill, but you'd think if pregnancy was a big deal to them they'd do all in their power to prevent it, too.

    Every woman who said no are being selfish and only looking at it through their selfish perspective, which is "HOW COULD YOU LEAVE A CHILD YOU DIDN'T AGREE TO AND A WOMAN WHO MADE A DECISION FOR YOU AND FORCED YOUR LIFE TO BE THIS WAY FINANCIALLY UNSUPPORTED!" Every woman who voted no makes me sick, and every guy who voted no is a traitor to themselves.

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  • The social ramifications of being able to 'opt out of fatherhood' would be absolutely catastrophic.

    I see your points in your question details, but I have to say no I'm not for this.

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    • Then shouldt abortion be illegal.

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    • Are u willing to see a significant taxation increase in sales tax and income tax , to have this ability to abort parental rights?

      Because if the mother has the child, she will most likely be on some sort of welfare for the child's well being. That money has to come from somewhere!

      The issue of men waiving parental rights, being truly considered for legislation, is that the taxaton on income tax and sales tax will be significantly increased to cover the cost of raising even more single parent children.

      You seem very adamant and passionate about this issue.

      BUT...

      Are u willing to put your money where your mouth is, and definitely facto pay for other men bailing on their kids through sales tax increase or income tax increase (which is like paying child support for kids who aren't yours)?

      *waiting reply*

    • Im for it. Ill be playing my violin while rome burns. Giving men an opt out is simply giving men equality.

  • i say yes. because it will teach women to stop entrapping men. if the man doesn't want to take care of his kids he shouldn't have too regardless if its right or wrong. so yeah i agree with the statement "agreeing to sex isn't agreeing to parenting" and if you are incapable of understanding this ill put it a different way "agreeing to work isn't agreeing to slavery."

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    • Read my comment about the taxation if this ability for men to waive parental rights, actually becomes law.

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    • *parental rights into law

    • what would happen if the politicians passed this law isn't the question here. the question is should it be passed and i say yes. child support is entrapment if the guy didn't want the kid in the first place its also entrapment if the woman had the baby specifically to get child support. like i said before it would cause women to wise the fuck up about who they are having kids with and make women accountable for their actions (not saying men dont play a part but soceity today doesn't hold women accountable nor responsible for their actions).

      also back on the politician bit fuck the votes. im probably never going to vote for a president or any politician because there's no point the "choices" are rigged regardless of which actor you chose you will still get the same play. the only time id ever vote for or against a politician is if they were clearly incompetent or pushing for something that goes directly against my rights.

  • "... One man said he *believed* the woman who filed a paternity suit against him *secretly intended*..."

    That would never make a good case in Court.

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  • Men dont have a legal choice. Hell the revolutionary war was over something similar. No taxation without representation. I know thats got to sound familiar.

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    • Talking about taxation...

      Are u willing to pay higher income tax and sales tax (aka child support for kids who aren't yours), in order to have this right for men to waive parental responsibility? The money for welfare to support a single mother's income has to come from somewhere!

    • @Prof_ Don im three steps ahead of you. The sytem will fail. Im all for it let the state garner mass debt so people realize that not only men but women as well need to take responsibilit for sex and we finally outlaw abortion. This is about equal rights and morality. Men should support and women shouldn't be allowed to kill there developing children.

  • Bullshit they should... if you lay down and make a baby stand up and be a daddy.

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  • Ooh, very touchy subject.
    the best real option is for both adults to talk about such things clearly with as much logic as possible.

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  • "The entire "if you didn't want kids, don't have sex" argument means that surely you must be against abortion too." Well I'm personally against abortion if the sex happened with mutual consent and the child is not handicapped or anything. But that should not for any reason be in the law, the decisions taken about this will not be valid in any way and it'll ruin the system. It's just my opinion.

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    • This is absolute bullshit, by the way. You can't "opt out" as a mother and leave the child to the father. It's really ridiculous how only men seem to be for this, if you think this makes sense you're an egotistical douchebag. You're responsible for the child, full stop.

  • ABOSLUTELY NOT!

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  • This is why i tink there should be a clause where if abortion is performed the guy pays half cause he was half the problem. But if the wome doesn't want an abortion, he is not responsible.

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  • Wear a condom

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    • Condoms aren't 100% effective.

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    • @Prof_Don 85%? I thought it was better than that. That would worry me.

    • Oops I was wrong. 85% if used improperly. 95% if used properly.

      But even then... that 5% catches up with time the more iterations are done.

      If someone keeps blindly reaching in a bag of 19 black marbles and 1 pink marble, the more times someone reaches in, someone will eventually get that pink marble

  • The things is women dont have to take responsibility for the child, as even if they do they can be secure that they will be supported. A man has no say and must always take responsibility based on the woman's choices.

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    • He is offered no support, and is basically fucked if he can't pay. It wouldn't be a problem if more dads got custody of the kids. I'm not a conspiracy theorist or anything but I think feminism has almost succeeded in removing the father from the family unit to create more feminized men.

  • If they are not married then yes he should be able to opt out. If a woman can abort the child without the man's permission or even his knowledge, then it is only fair the man also be given a chance to abort his responsibly after sex as well. If a woman wants the man to be there for the child then she should get married to him before having his child.

    Men can't be tricked or have a woman destroy their lives, and women will still have a way to get a father for her child through marriage if she really wants that. That compromise is more than fair to both genders.

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    • Funny how almost everyone thinks men should be forced to be fathers, yet there is no law giving men a right to know he is a father, nor are the child custody laws fair to both genders. If it was so important that the man be a part in supporting the child then we would have a right to know we have a kid, and it would be far easier to get equal custody. If DNA is such a strong reason why men need to pay child support, then women should have to continue to pay child support after giving up a child for adoption instead of just walking away from her responsibilities as well. However women would consider that unfair as it would leave some women as screwed as they want to leave men. This is really all the proof we need to show that forcing a man to accept responsibility has nothing to do with helping the child, and is set up to help the mother.

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    • It is a part of a mans gender role to take care of women, and if we step out of that gender role society wants to attack us for failing as a man. I would find tooth and nail to be near my kid if I had any, but the way the laws are set up now are to favor the woman, not protect the child. Either men need to be given equal rights at parenthood, or women need to start accepting more responsibility.

    • *fight tooth and nail*

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