Atheists, what would you say to this?

If we look everything logically, we have two options:

Either the universe always existed or God always existed.

Astronomers have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that our universe began at the Big Bang. So that leaves God. This I think is logically intuitive to most people, just like the validity of scientific consistency is.

I want to know what creative response an atheist would have to this.


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Most Helpful Guy

  • I think you're really in love with logical fallacies. It's amazing how many of those you can pack into such a short question.
    Logical fallacy number 1: "Black-or-White": No, these are actually not the only options. There are many more options. For example the universe might have come out of nowhere for reason we don't yet understand. Perhaps the laws of physics did not apply at that stage or perhaps a different set of law of physics applied at that stage. It's also possible that our universe was in fact born out of a different universe that had collapsed before. There are also other options on the religious side. For example somebody might believe that god created himself. Christianity has about 10,000 different denominations and none of them agree with each other.
    Fallacy number 2: Appeal to popularity: Just because many people think something is a certain way doesn't make it true. And related to that:
    Fallacy number 3: Appeal to emotion: This one is even more severe in your question than the second one. Just because something feels good or intuitive etc. DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.

    However, what bothers me the most about your question is the lie that "astronomers have proven beyond a doubt..." Clearly, you don't understand how science works. So let me explain it to you. Science is not a holy book. It doesn't have rules and "truths" that are carved in stone. Yes, the big bang is currently considered a theory and that means a fact. However, a scientific theory is only so long regarded as a fact until it is disproven. So no, astronomers have NOT proven beyond a doubt that the universe was created with the big bang. The likelihood is relatively high that it was that way AS OF RIGHT NOW but perhaps in 50 or 100 or 500 years we will have more and different evidence that will point in a different direction (though certainly not to god).

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    • You sir, are skilled in the art of denial.

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    • And the word "christian" just means you believe in the god in the bible, Mormons are not christians because they do not follow the bible they follow the words of 1 man, But yes. There are A LOT of different kinds of religions. Lol and I learned about religions in high school last year.

    • You're serious haha.

What Girls Said 5

  • Our universe probably began at the Big Bang, but the matter and energy that made up our universe already existed. The Big Bang was merely an expansion of matter and energy, not the creation of matter and energy.

    Even if the matter and energy of our universe didn't exist at some point, what makes you think a god did it? Why couldn't it be something else we never even thought of before? Why couldn't it poof into existence by itself? Unless YOU have all the knowledge in the universe, you cannot say we are merely limited to two options, since this is a topic even the most bright minds haven't yet fully explored.

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    • I love it when atheists speak with such confidence. Not only was matter/energy created at the Big Bang, so was time and space, which is kind of a prerequisite for matter and energy which is just a form of matter.

  • Just because the universe is said to begin once the big bang happened. Doesn't mean a god exists. There isn't any solid proof.

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  • I'm an agnostic athiest so I believe that there's not got because there is no proof that he existed.

    You said 'either x or y' but I feel that it's not a black or white situation.
    Also, the fact that you said that astronomers have a doubt doesn't automatically mean that god exists. You have to find proof that god exists.

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    • Yeah, Everyone always asks for proof, And I get it, But our religion and most others rely on faith, Because if there was proof then there would be no need to have trust in a higher power. It seems kind of bleak and kinda sad if you don't believe that there is something more, Because if life has no meaning then what is the point of living? We are becoming more and more like animals because we can do what we want, And in the end it will kill all of us.
      Back on the topic, There is no proof, And there never will be. You seem kind of open minded which is good, I like it when an atheist is mean to christians. :)

    • @Astro1222 Thanks for the nice words. I try to be as openminded as possible since there is no real answer to religion.

      In response about proof, I think that's what really separates people from believing different ideas. I want certainty about ideas and unless those are proven, it is difficult for me to believe it. Another reason is that many religions do show the path to a good life for people. However, I feel that I want to make that path myself and not necessarily listen to the words of god.

      Hope that makes sense.

    • Yes it does, And religion is very different, And I am proud that christianity even though it may be a religion has done a lot of good from kids in africa and homeless, And openminded is awesome, i try to be to, But I am very mutely christian, Hope you find that makes you a better person! If you haven't already

  • Christ is watching you...

    jk lol

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  • I'm no atheist, I am very much Christian. The big bang is sort of correct in my view, God spoke the universe into being, And he said let there be light and there was light. So in a sense yeah it was. I do not want an argument, A argument on this will not change my mind nor will it change yours, So I just wanted to share. I Love astronomy and I wanted to be an astronomer for a long time but then I was scared away by the negative atheists that was so mean, Plus I loved working with animals more. but I love science non the less

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What Guys Said 9

  • You're making it an "either / or" situation, which is the issue. You're saying it's definitely this or definitely that. What if it's something else that we can't even conceive?

    I mean, it's definitely a mind-bender, but I don't think trying to force it into one of two boxes is the right way to approach it.

    What if the universe is part of something so much bigger that we can't even begin to comprehend? What if "God" is something different than the church (whatever flavor you like) teaches us?

    If you really want to explore this topic, try 3 grams of dried psilocybin mushrooms in a quiet, peaceful setting (only where it's legal, of course...) and you might start getting some ideas.

    Or if you want, you could start by listening to some ideas from Robert Anton Wilson, one of my favorite philosophers... Here's a good place to start, this is one part of a 5 part video series that is a little over an hour in total... Doesn't address this subject exclusively, but it will make you consider other ways of thinking that will apply to this question...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C80u_arHBHo

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  • It is really not the concept of a higher power that I disbelieve in. It is the detailed description of "him" that exists within religions that makes me laugh. As far as I know, Atheists are not against the idea of a god. In fact, many of them will help you look for one, just not through moronic tales told by idiots thousands of years ago.

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  • The beginning of this universe is not the same as the beginning of existence itself.
    Quantum physics also have concepts like multiverse, omniverse, etc indicating that this universe is simply one among many.

    Universes have beginnings and ends, existence itself has not.

    I personally see existence as a fragmented consciousness that is subjectively exploring itself, one thing appearing to be many.

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    • Your last paragraph sounds interesting, but you should drop the first two, they don't sound good.

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    • Einstein was not a quantum physicist, you're an idiot.

    • I never said he was.

      But his work also laid down the foundation for modern quantum mechanics.
      His analysis of the “spookiness” of quantum mechanics opened up a whole range of applications including quantum teleportation and quantum cryptography.

      But I'm done here now. Bye.

  • Problem with saying god did it is that it only raises further questions. It doesn't answer any. The origin on the universe remains unknown.
    When you say god did it, now you've got to try to explain what is god? Where did he get his knowledge from? Where did he get his powers from? How did he create the universe? Can you demonstrate this? All these things are unexplained/unproven. So saying god did it hasn't answered the question, just raised further questions.

    It's like hearing creeks in the night, you could say that it's due to temperature changes, which is known to cause wood to expand and contract, causing creeks, or... say ghosts did it. by saying ghosts did it now you have to try and explain what a ghost is, where it came from and how does it affects the physical world. You gotta demonstrate all this. This is why saying 'god did it' doesn't answer anything. Just raises further questions...

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  • "Either the universe always existed or God always existed.

    Astronomers have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that our universe began at the Big Bang. So that leaves God."

    no because you ask atheists which don't believe in god -> he never existed.

    Also, the big bang is just a theorie and no one knows what was before that. maybe we are a universe in another universe? who knows.

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    • This is pretty creative. But you're forgetting what makes the Big Bang the Big Bang. Time-space started at the Big Bang. Time can't exist forever, which means another universe couldn't exist forever either, and there wouldn't be any time in which our universe would be created. Only possibility is that God began creating time. So the question remains, either the universe always existed or God always existed.

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    • I did don't worry about that

  • Atheist answer: or God never existed.

    /thread

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  • "No shadow of a doubt" big bang is a freaking theory. I mean I think it could be true but I don't bet on it. Your options are always there or created by God... In fact there are so many possibilities. We just don't know. Assuming things helps nobody.

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  • an existence of a god does not mean any religion present is true

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  • What are you trying to propose some sort of limiting propositional fallacy? :S

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