Is a Holy Crusade against ISIS a good idea? Would you join such an effort?

I'm a Catholic, and I've always looked back fondly on the Crusades. I think they're one of the best examples of a just war. Now, 650 years after the last Crusade, it looks like Christendom might need another one.

Do you think it's a good idea for the Catholic Church to launch a Crusade against ISIS, requesting that all good Christians give ten percent of their money towards the creation of a Papal army to fight the Islamic State? Would you join up, if you felt the holy call?

  • I think it's a good idea; I'd join!
    0% (0)22% (11)16% (11)Vote
  • I think it's a good idea; I wouldn't join.
    5% (1)8% (4)7% (5)Vote
  • It's a terrible idea; I'd still join!
    5% (1)4% (2)4% (3)Vote
  • I think it's a terrible idea; I would never join.
    90% (19)66% (32)73% (51)Vote
And you are? I'm a GirlI'm a Guy
Updates:
If GaG is representative of the population as a whole, then 91,000,000+ men ages 15-44 (in Europe and the Americas alone) would be willing to embark on a Holy Crusade against ISIS.

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Most Helpful Girl

  • So you wanna fight terrorism with terrorism?
    Wth that's so dumb..

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    • How is a Crusade "terrorism"?

    • >>>How is a Crusade "terrorism"?

      exactly what the jihadis are asking.

      funny, isn't it?

    • @Dandeus that doesn't answer my question.
      The Crusades were a response to 400 years of Muslim invasions. Even then, the Crusades only harmed enemy combatants, and they guaranteed religious freedom to Muslims and Jews.

Most Helpful Guy

  • The first move of such a crusade should be to arrest and guillotine the traitors in the West who are arming and enabling Islamic terrorism. That would be the entire ruling elite, both behind the scenes and those who are in front of the curtain.
    The next move should be to take out the Saudis, who are funding it.
    Then and only then would military action against the likes of ISIL be successful.
    Such action should be Biblical, in terms of a scorched-earth no-prisoners no-mercy policy. These people understand only pain, terror and death. Give it to them in abundance, to ensure that the message is understood.
    As soldier said after an engagement: "They came willing to be martyred for Allah. We accommodated them."

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What Girls Said 9

  • Religion is never ever a good justification for a war. At all. Fuck that.

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    • What do you mean?

    • It's the same reason why we think ISIS is nuts to think that they can enforce Islam in the whole world through "religious" war.

      Honestly, religion has caused so much fucking conflict already in this world, it's about time that stops. Just because a person has different beliefs or views than you doesn't mean you should kill them or shove your believes down their throat, and I mean that to both Christianity and Islam alike.

      I don't believe war solves anything but creates more and more problems and really fucks with the victims of the war psychologically and often physically as well. If you have to use self defence from someone else then I guess that's the only justification. Otherwise no.

  • I mean eh, if you want to, go ahead but I think it's stupid and it won't work.

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  • well im glad im not christian then because no one would wanna give up all their money just to send their families on a death mission attacking ISIS

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  • Jesus Christ the Crusades were bad

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  • I would rather sleep

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  • dumb as f*ck.
    americans went in first snd started bombing and f*cking shit up and then syrians retaliated... y'all need to stop villifying... the enemy is the man.

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  • haha, that's hilarious. good luck with that. what would probably happen is you all kill each other and the rest of us are given a break from all of you.

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    • What do you mean?

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    • Really? Lol ok
      What about the countless Catholic doctors and scientists throughout history? Were they all stupid, too?

    • How is Arab IQ relevant? Don't you know that most ISIS fighters are not even Syrian? And that there are thousands of Chechens, European reverts, Asians, Africans..

  • I think it's a terrible idea; I would never join.

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  • The Crusades are murky waters... besides, body count won't stop ISIS. It's not that kind of war.

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What Guys Said 31

  • So what you are saying is that you think that what ISIS is doing, launching a religious war to enforce their vision of how the world is run, is morally justified. You just disagree with the religion that has been chosen.

    What ISIS is doing now is what the Crusades were. A bunch of soldiers cruising around the Holy Lands killing everybody that didn't worship the same god that they did, in the same way that they did.

    I don't agree with what ISIS is doing, obviously, but it is morally irresponsible to simply act like their actions are morally acceptable if the religion being enforced is different.

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    • I suggest you check out "Real Crusades History" on YouTube. You're echoing pretty notorious myths about the Crusades--or even the Meideval world in general.

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    • I said a religious war--not a war of forced conversion.

      The war with ISIS is already a religious war; it's a war against radical Islam.

    • so you think its good to invade country for having a different religion killing thousands but a "forced conversion" is just a step too far.. were you thinking just total genocide instead? what the fuck? are you just trolling or are you really such morally repugnant human-being?

      the only reason ISIS exists is because of the systematic raping of the levant done by the crusading west for centuries!

  • The fucking Crusades are WHY there is hostility between the Christian world and the Muslim world.

    No, it's a bad idea. However, if you want to lead the charge, feel free. I'll show the video of your beheading to my grandkids to teach them what NOT to do.

    lh4.ggpht.com/.../mistakes_thumb1.jpg?imgmax=800

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    • You don't think Muslims started this hostility with their conquests of the Christian world?

      How much do you know about the Crusades?

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    • If you have such an extensive knowledge of logic and philosophy, I would expect that you'd notice that you're using really, really pathetic appeals to authority ("I know so much more than you about logic, derp") and ad hominems ("you're too young, uneducated, and arrogant").

      Come on, dude. I really hope you're just a tantrum-prone fifteen-year-old instead of a 53-year-old man.

    • Know I am 53 and I am an avionics systems engineer, but I feel like I am talking to someone whom I am afraid is going to get kicked in the teeth by life. As for appealing to authority, appealing to myself is not appealing to authorit. As for the ad hominem, I'm not using that in my argument regarding the merits of the New Crusade, but I am annoyed that you know less about the real world than you realize which is why I am fearful for you. The world is a very dangerous place and it is one's best interests to listen and learn more that rashly say and act like advocating for a new Crusade. Not sure where I learned this... maybe it's in the Bible... but "The Fool is always trying to prove he is right, while the Wise Man wonders if he is in error." These are good words to live by. Also, learn about the distinction between inductive and deductive logic and how axiomatic systems work. Once u do that, then u won't be claiming fallacy of appealing to authority so much. Good luck!

  • "I think they're one of the best examples of a just war."
    vomzi.com/.../laughing-hysterically-gif.gif

    You, sir, are highly deluded. Or a troll. The Crusades were no different than any other way. The goals were political, not religious. They were just masked better than any other war.

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  • I'm not Catholic, and I fear any MAN who would make the cry of "Deus Vult!"
    However, they are driven by a religious ideology to expand, attack, and kill. And they target whom they want to attack and kill based on what religion that person is. Anyone who claims this is not a religious war is deluding themselves.

    It is a terrible idea. And I would probably support it anyways, though with trepidation.

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    • I just want to point out that it's a common myth that the Crusades were wars of forced conversion; that is false. They were primarily counterattacks to the Sejuq Turks and the Caliphate, as well as responses to the mass rape, slaughter, and enslavement of Christian pilgrims. The Crusader states (the Kingdom of Jerusalem, Principality of Antioch, County of Odessa, etc) actually allowed religious freedom.

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    • I'm glad to know at least someone here knows their Crusades history lol.

      Are you Protestant? Eastern Orthodox?

    • non-denominational protestant.

  • Our involvement will only strengthen them and result in ISIS controling more countries. We should leave Muslims to sort out Muslim problems, ISIS is surrounded by powerful Muslim militaries, we can't always be policing the middle east.
    650 years ago it might have been a just war in what was a larger struggle for dominance of Christian lands and of the European continent but the crusades were more likely fought for wealth, territory and access to the silk road rather than religion.
    The dominance of Muslim countries subsided when the Spanish reconquered Spain, the defeat of the Turks at the battle of Vienna, control of the Mediterranean passing to Christian countries at tge battle and the Spanish discovering the New World as well as discoveries of new lands with abundant resources and riches not to mention more importantly Muslim Countries lossing huge income from Europeans when they were able to bypass the silk road and go around by sea, all of which happened within fifty years of each other. Muslim countries afyer these defeats went into a step decline. Mulsim countries though they have recovered much of their greatness over last quarter decade they have a long way to go. The War you speak of is over we won.

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  • This war is for the heart and soul of Islam.
    If anyone should be launching a crusade it's moderate Muslims. Otherwise this turns into a war in which Christianity is being forced onto the local population.

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    • The goal would be to eliminate ISIS and set up a modern republic of religious freedom in the current ISIS territories.

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    • They would set up their own brigade. They hate Catholics and Hispanics. Guess whose going to be signing up? Hispanic Catholics.

    • Although, "Hispanic Catholic" is a redundant statement.

  • Kill all the motherfuckers !

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  • The only Crusade that must be launched is one inside Europe. Simply because the enemy is among us, this time disguised as a refugee and more dangerous than ever. Let the muslims in the Middle East kill each other like they do for centuries now. If there is a problem affecting us, it's the millions of invaders who swarm into our countries, stripping us of our heritage and this with the help of our treacherous governments (the Pope included) and certain useful idiots who hate their own people and wish to see the European civilisation destroyed.

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  • I think i would be one of the first to pick up arms if called upon.
    Sadly many people have been taught an ahistorical version of the crusades and it's purpose.

    There is a great YouTube channel called RealCrusadesHistory check it out

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  • The Crusades had nothing to do with anything 'Holy'. All it was however is a bunch of men invading another country for riches like EVERY OTHER CRUSADE. They always sugar coat it, but at the end of the day thats all it was AND of course they say it's in the name of GOD. You know I have another name for people like that... I call them TYRANTS.

    At the end of the day NO ONE really wins in a war, all there is, are a bunch of old farts sending young soldiers to their deaths for their personal gains. Granted there are times when war cannot be avoided, but the 'Crusades' was not one of them. Historical yes... but not in a good way.

    Oh and those people who claim they are doing this in the name of 'Allah' I just had some time a few days ago to ask this to a muslim of 20 years practicing and he says they don't condone what ISIS does. So I guess I can call ISIS tyrants too.

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  • The last thing we need on Earth now is a religiously motivated war.

    I'm a Catholic too, never really taken it too seriously though as I was baptised young, but the founding principles of all religions are to promote peace. Surely you would be contradicting your own beliefs and religion to consider going to war based on that?

    ISIS suck yeah, but it isn't just Catholics fighting them. Jews, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, more or less all religions you can think of, even Muslims. If anything Muslims have the biggest reason to hate ISIS since it gives them a bad name, and ISIS have actually killed more Muslims than any other religion.

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    • Well, they kill Shiites, not necessarily just Muslims in general.

    • Still Muslims though. I don't go out killing Protestants or Christians because their religious views are different from the ones of my own upbringing.

      In fact, if you really want to see the joys of sectarianism in action, come over to Scotland. People murder each other based on religion as ISIS do. It's not limited to any one religion.

      Why don't we start with dealing with ISIS alone, then we can all sit as brothers of different religions and discuss what's going on in this fucked up world.

    • Then why wouldn't a Crusade be a good idea? A Christian army can destroy ISIS, set up a Crusader Republic, and finally establish freedom and Republicanism in the middle-east.

  • I wholeheartedly encourage religious zealots to kill each other and leave the rest of us with a less overpopulated world.

    Just do it somewhere far away from me so I don't have to listen to your nonsense.

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    • Seriously, this is such a win-win.

      1. This war gets funded out of pocket from church coffers and tithing, not tax money.
      2. The church doesn't have an entrenched military-industrial complex, so you're fighting a war on the ground without an overwhelming air or naval advantage, so losses are even.
      3. It diverts anger from governments to the church.
      4. It leaves a power-vaccum in the middle east for secularists to fill after the fighting ends.
      5. It diminishes the foothold the religious right has over here by draining their finances and depleting their numbers.

  • I hope this is irony. But knowing humanity, I'm not so sure...

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  • Just kill the fuck out of Isis, No other excuse besides riding the world of the evil c*cksuckers is needed.

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    • That's why I think a Crusade is a good idea; it'll get the ball rolling.

  • I wouldn't don anything like that until they are attacking my country. but the crusades were not something you should look fondly at

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    • Why should I not look fondly on the Crusades?

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    • I don't think there is anything in the historical record to support that idea.

      They were a clear response to the slaughter of Christian pilgrims in Palestine, the conquest of vast swathes of Christian land, the abuse of Christian subjects under the Caliphate, and the vicious attacks on the crumbling Eastern Roman Empire. Even cases of rape and massacres were rare; the only two I can think of were the Rhineland and Jerusalem massacres, which totaled 8,000 deaths total. Even the Templars, Hospitalers, other knights, and the Church themselves condemned these actions (Count Raymound IV and his knights even helped protect unarmed Muslim combatants, herding them into the Tower of David).

  • Can you go in detail about the plan?

    Should we kill the children also?
    Leave them there watching and alone?
    Are going to bring them to our countries?

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    • I imagine the goals would be this:

      1) Destroy all traces of ISIS in Iraq and the Levant; seize their territory.
      2) Form a modern nation, Christian possibly in nature, but with modern religious freedom, free speech, economic freedom, etc.
      3) Settle the state with Europeans and Christians to ensure a stable, modern democracy with equal rights for all people, Arab and European. Of course, this would NOT entail an ethnic cleansing like in Israel.

  • Catholic church? The same one where Pope's been washing legs (a sign of surrender?) of invading moslems recently?

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  • I'm confused why are the crusades a just war? And which crusades are we speaking about?

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  • Fighting religion with religion is like fighting fire with fire. Nice attempt at trolling, by the way, Vladimir.

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  • no how about we as a people agree they need to die
    plus its not a war of people its a war of there religion Islam

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  • Thats a fucking awful idea

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  • I wouldn't mind leading an army of Muslims to kill the whole ISIS population. Of people of other faith do it, it will give it a very different face.

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  • What a dumbass idea.

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    • 1. The US, Israel, and other Western Nations actively fund and arm ISIS.
      2. You can't have 'war on terrorism.' War IS terrorism by nature.
      3. Look at what we've done in the past. We've destroyed countless civilian homes through drone bombs and invading soverign homes for these boogeymen.
      4. A week of war on these supposed terrorists could've given every prospecting college student a full 4 year tuition. Its a massive waste of money.

    • 1. Yep, totally. That's why a government-sponsored war would never work.
      2. Since I never mentioned calling a crusade against "terrorism" in general, I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. I said a crusade against ISIS, not "terrorism."
      3. First, it's not "we". It's NATO. That's what would separate a religiously-motivated liberation group from a government; Crusaders would be compassionate by their very nature, governed by the laws of love. They would actually have a chance of doing something different.
      4. Of course it's a waste of money--because NATO is doing it! Governments don't fundamentally care about how much money they spend; a donation-funded private movement does. A Crusade would have to be thrifty be default.

      Any other points that need debunking?

  • if the crusade includes air strikes then yes

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  • I don't want the last thing I hear in this world to be KABOOM !!

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  • The worst idea ever.

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    • Why do you say that?

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    • Sure, but Jesus also told his disciples to buy swords, and to love your neighbor as yourself. What greater way to show our Christian love for innocent Muslims and Christians alike being slaughtered by ISIS than to use those very swords to save them?

    • Half the world is already at war with ISIS anyway. I don't see a need for some misguided meme that's likely to cause deeper divisions between the east and the west.
      Truth be told ISIS is likely a CIA asset. Massive amounts of evidence suggests such

  • if u wanna war with terrorism first you have to destroy turkey because turkey equal isis

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  • 'a just war'

    This question features 21 flavors of irony folks. Get in while you can!

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    • Do you disagree that they were just wars?

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    • Sure, if it was in fact France's military then it's a suitable reaction

    • Come on now the French would surrender to the tourists.

  • wouldn't solve a damn thing

    realize that

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  • it doesn't sound like you know much about the Crusades. The nobles were going broke and started attacking other Christians for money. The church then told the nobles if they did the same thing to Muslims then it would be okay with God. This moved the blood shed out of their own country, which is what the real goal of the church was. As the Christians fought for gold, they claimed it was for God. It was anything but a just war.

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    • No, that's not true in the slightest. The Crusades were highly unprofitable ventures done to repel Muslim invasions.

    • No, the holy land where all the fighting was taking place was already Muslim land. That makes it pretty hard to try and pretend they were trying to repel the Muslim invasions, when the Christians were clearly the invaders.

    • The first crusade was very profitable and set up some very rich crusader states. If Richard the Lionheart had captured Jerusalem and driven Saladin out he would have been able to pay back all his creditors, gained massive appeal to the massives, would have been held as in high reguard in Christianity as Saladin is in Islam and probably would have gained the crown of France but instead he went hom penniless in failure.

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