Being Nice versus Being "Too Nice"

[IsntitIronic]

Have you ever felt like you were being rejected by most girls for being "too nice" ? Has it ever stung to be "friend-zoned"? Or maybe you heard a girl complain that boyfriends are assholes and you wanted to tell them that they always fell for the wrong guys?

To all the guys and anyone else out there that knows the phrase: "nice guys finish last", I want to put this myth down for good. Let's be clear on this:

Being nice is good. Being confident and assertive is also very attractive. Let's not confuse being nice and confident with being "too nice."

I used to be that guy too. I would date girls for about 6 months and they would slowly lose interest in dating me around the half-year mark every time. I was puzzled and confused. People say I'm very nice, I'm pretty successful career-wise and a lot of people have told me that I look attractive enough. So what was I doing wrong?

Allow me to introduce the "Holy Grail" for all my fellows who also find themselves in the same boat:

Being nice means thinking and doing things that are good for more than just you. But being "too nice" crucifies one crucial element to attraction: assertiveness.

Look, if you've ever found yourself saying, "I'll do whatever she wants from me just to win her heart," you're being too nice. Because what you're sacrificing is your own self-respect out of fear of rejection. Girls might not be able to consciously recognize it right away, but they can sense when a guy is starting to lower his own value to enable those they deem "datable." It's a downward cycle where a woman stops thinking of you as attractive when you start to put yourself into the realm of being "expendable."

Being confident and assertive means being able to say one magic word: "No."

When you realize that in order for people to focus on you, be attracted to you, and date you, you have to be able to say "no" sometimes and have something to stand up for.

I've heard some "nice guys" say that they are naturally very nice, and in order to be "not nice" they have to be a jerk. That's not true either. Girls are attracted to confidence and self respect more so than someone who is nice with low self-esteem or a guy who's trying to act like a "bad boy" to get their attention.

Does that mean that all girls will never date the "bad boy" or a total douche? No. Those guys are assertive to the point that they start to block out everyone else from influencing their lives, and some girls will get burnt time and again by going after those kind of people. But you shouldn't resent them for "taking the good girls." Confidence means not giving yourself away too easily, not being overly enthusiatic to do something, not setting your schedule around every girl that comes along into your life (aka being a little unavailable at first), and don't just be a yes-man for no other reason than to be "nice".

It means having some value and respect in yourself, rather than trying to please people by being what you think they want you to be. Ideally, you want to be nice but be able to hold your ground and say "no" to things that don't help you. It's the most powerful mindset to be able to be someone first in order to find someone to be with.

[HikerDude]

Well, this is the official party line from women these days, but like most official statements, it contains only a kernel of truth. The reality is that looks trumps everything else when it comes to building attraction. Girls are often loathe to admit this because it undermines their chosen position on the moral high ground, but it's true nonethless. Humor and general affability are second on the list of desirable traits that create attraction with girls. Assertiveness is maybe a distant third in the hierarchy, if that. There are lots of extremely assertive guys who couldn't get laid if they were sailors on shore leave in Bangkok.

The "nice guy" thing has been grossly mischaracterized by feminists to the point that it's become a meme. The actual truth behind the nice guy is that many, many guys are trained and taught from birth to be gentlemanly in their interactions with girls. We're taught that girls seek and appreciate gentlemanly behavior by parents who are as clueless about modern dating as a monk. Perhaps some older women do appreciate gentlemanly behavior, but girls and young women find it anachronistic and, to paraphrase, lame. They don't get it and typically feel creeped out by guys who are overtly gentlemanly. Thus, guys who display this behavior in their interactions with women quickly deduce that girls do not want gentlemen. The black-or-white reasoning of youth often leads them to draw the conclusion that girls must then desire the opposite of a gentleman, which also isn't true. This is the path many frustrated guys take to arrive at the nice guy/jerk false dichotomy of female attraction.

[IsntitIronic]

I know where you're coming from, and both girls and guys that have body image issues can suffer from disproportionate rejections due to initial attraction struggles. Let me tell you, the "friend zone" is not a feminist construct, both girls and guys find themselves trapped crushing on someone who may not share the same level of attraction, and although we cannot remove it the best we can do is proud of who we are and what we look like

[RandomUsername3464]

It honestly hurts reading posts like yours, because even though you make so many good points, it seems like most people won't listen.

[CanadianMaple]

Good take, I totally agree with your summary!

[MrEMann]

Life is about balance, my friend. As men, we need to be patient and kind but we also need to be sharp. You know? Have an edge! This doesn't mean put on some tough guy persona. The best way I can describe it is to be inflexible on issues that are important to you. Know what you need in life and accept nothing less. Be strong! If you are always aggreeing with everything a girl asks for, it is not sexy. She don't feel safe with you. If you can't tame her wild heart, how will you ever protect her? Whether women admit it out loud or not, there is something primal in them that seeks this quality in a man. There is something primal in us too, but society and political correctness has neutered the modern man, and my man, you sound like you been snipped long ago. I am not trying to insult you and I am not trying to sound like I have solved all the mysteries of the female heart. However, I know this... It is about balance! (as I said at the beginning) A girl deserves to have her chair pulled out for her. She deserves to be helped on with her coat and have her hair carefully kept out from under her collar, her door opened up, her thoughts and ideas heart, her heart cherished. However, they are emotional creatures and that sometimes gets in their way so they need us to be strong. Even they don't like feeling like a leaf in the wind, ruled by their emotions. If we allow their emotions to rule us, they do not feel safe. It is a classic Gone With the Wind element. Would Rhett have won Scarlet if he were a push over? On the other hand, would he have won her if he were an uncaring brute either? Balance, my friend. Sometimes a girl needs an ear, a hug and a shoulder. In contrary, sometimes she needs a good spankin' too. A wise man knows when it is time for both. Good luck! It sounds like you're gonna need it!

[DarkHumorRUs]

It's not just that.

Like I've said before, the reason why girls don't go for guys who describe themselves as "nice guys" is because being "nice" IS NOT A UNIQUE CHARACTERISTIC. The majority of people are at least somewhat nice. It's not something to make a guy stand out in a crowd, so if that's the guy's only quality, it barely even counts.

[IsntitIronic]

We could say the same thing about confidence, its not a selling point but rather something that should compliment a person's character. I intentionally left out personality and physical attraction out of this article.

[Nicolás25]

BRAVO! BRAVO!
This is something a lot of men need to read I know how dificult that transition from boy to man can be and the rollercoaster of emotions and ideas it can stir when one is approaching women one's interested in but often times it creates pathetic attitudes like
too nice guy
faking to be confident
creepy guy
faking to be a bad ass
trying too hard guy
etc. but what really works is being persistent, funny, kind, confident, valueing your freedom and independence, but most importantly finding the right girl that one girl that makes you feel free when you are with her.

[RandomUsername3464]

I'm a mix between what you would call a nice guy and a rude guy in real life. I indeed did notice that girls expected me to be a gentleman, yet they also had some weird edgy angst against guys with good manners. I never demanded sex or anything from them. The way I see it, is if girls want to purposely shun guys who are polite and decent, then fine, just don't complain when you inevitably get hurt by the bad boys on the other end of the spectrum. I don't exist to serve girls like a gentleman with no questions asked, that's why I'm not nice anymore. They don't deserve it. It has nothing to do with expectations of sex. I'm sorry that so many girls grew up watching fairytales of some gentleman who would serve them like a slave, but that's not reality.

[Heretolisten]

Girls are stupid sometimes. I don't know I like nice guys. my boyfriend is a nice guy. I'm a nice girl. I really don't see the beauty in bad guys except for their physical appearance. Once their douche bag mode turns on, they better run bc I will kick the shit outta their balls.

[Bysshe]

"I really don't see the beauty in bad guys except for their physical appearance."

Do you think there's a correlation between being a 'bad guy' and being physically attractive?

[Heretolisten]

@Bysshe I meant that most bad guys are the typical hot bad guys.

[aficionado]

Girls are attracted to 'good looks', whether the guy is nice or not. It's that simple, really! How often do we come across good looking guys complain that they couldn't get a girlfriend because they were 'too nice'? Not very often.

[confusedgirl239]

But that's not the point of this article. He's talking about getting a girl and KEEPING her. If you are attractive, yeah it may be easier for you to get into a relationship. But attractiveness only goes so far. If you are assertive, but don't take other's well being into your mind, you won't keep her. If you are "too nice" and are not able to be assertive, you will lose the girl because she'll realize that you don't stand up for yourself. I thought this take was spot on.

[IsntitIronic]

We could say the same thing about guys being attracted to 'good looks.' Attraction is really moot, especially when we're talking about relationships with value and self-respect. I learned this the hard way... not to chase but to be chased, with the following: believe in yourself, your value, and know what you are worth, so you can find someone else to believe in, raise their value, and know what they're worth to you, and you'll always get the girl who will respect you, be loyal to you, and be there for you no matter what.

[Scrambledagain]

Buddy I have a 6 pack , v lines, good face, maybe a little short (5.8), guitarist, business manager, I bench a 100kg, train women at gym and let me tell you something... looks have nothing to do with it. I struggle with women because I am too nice. A soft personality is way more detrimental than looks. Another incredible example: I have a guy friend who is an FHM model. Got a contract to model in milan which he turned down... for his girlfriend. Guess what, he is very nice and he attracted this girl who is a lingerie model. Guess what happened next... his best friend slept with her. He is ugly as shit. So he lost his best friend and his girlfriend... to a ugly dude. My model friend has only had a few girls. This humble guy who could have anyone is too nice. He is a pussy. Its not looks, its personality and demeanor.

[aficionado]

@IsntitIronic
But good looks are obviously needed for that initial spark at least, right? Irrespective of whether the guys is nice or not?

@Scrambledagain
Whoa, it seems so strange then!

[Scrambledagain]

What you have to understand, looks do count to a degree. But for girls it's not physical looks but more the implication of what you project. so if you look in shape (you do gym or eat healthy, have respect for yourself), dress nice (you have some inclination that you care how you want the world to see you), smell good (same as what you want to project), are hygienic and have a positive vibe (you are a cool guy she wants to be with)..., that's what looks to a girl is. Physical attractiveness is like 25% of the equation. I know many ugly guys who out play their hotter counterparts.

[HowRUbBuddy]

there few ways around being too friendly , first dress and act sexier so they find you attractive , now being nice is good its good to care and treat others right but at the same time be always a bit careless and distant , dont go all the way to make her happy , say no sometimes or act uninterested , dont think too much about her she will eventually start liking you much more , some people have this come to them more naturally and sometimes you just have to change a little bit.

[ConsultantIsBack]

I say become more and more sexually attractive and then let your intentions known early on after meeting a girl you like (flirting aggressively, etc.). This is great anti-friendzone insurance.

It's the boy-next-door-that-fix-your-computer types that get friendzoned left and right, or guys too shy to swing their balls around and control the situation that get friendzoned.

[Scrambledagain]

Fully agree

[Marinepilot]

Girls think they can change or tame the bad boy. In the process they
get knocked up, Bad Boy leaves and then they want to the guys back
that they rejected or Friend Zoned. Sadly, many guys will accept them, even though they damage goods ad used cars. But, that's their choice. I'll be damned if I'm
going to accept some loser ass bad boy's leftovers ! If this is too harsh, so be it.
I never have and I never will. Yes kiddies, even at my age.

[MrEMann]

My Man! You hear this fellas? Have a little self respect. However, at your age beggers can't be choosers either. Better take whatbyou can get, brother! Alright, juuuuust kidding!

[Marinepilot]

@MrEMann My age my ass ! I can still get just about any woman I want. Little boy don't go there with me ! You will lose very badly !

[MrEMann]

Ohhh $#!+... I just noticed your screen name! I have the upmost respect for the men and women who served our country. Judging by your age, you likely fought in Nam too. I meant no disrespect, Sir. It was my poor attempt at humor, hence the "just kidding" at the end of my comment. My humble apologies.

[Marinepilot]

@MrEMann Ok. Never underestimate Marines !

[Roadcruiser1]

There's a difference between being nice, and being a Milhouse. As shown in an example below. You can watch it anytime if you want to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DIii1kljoA

[thedevilwithin]

I like this my take, it's really got a great point. No-one respects a push over.
You may like what they do for you, but you don't respect them.

[WhatTheHellAmy]

Life would be amazing if we all were too nice. Sad reality we live in

[Phoenix98]

Or you can just be yourself and let the chips fall were they may.

[Scrambledagain]

Fully dusagree

[Scrambledagain]

Disagree

[Phoenix98]

@Scrambledagain fully disagree then but you can still be yourself and know when to be to nice or not nice, I've never been friend zoned either so *shrugs*

[Anonymous]

Oh well screw the dumb women that want a "challenge" or try to "tame" the bad boy or player. You don't need those type of women because many of them are self centered and absorbed.

[Anonymous]

Wow this helps because I'm always too nice to people

[Anonymous]

wow and i dont even have the carrer and the 6 months thing. imagine how much i've fucked it up.