The ''Friendzone'' is really the ''UglyZone'', Do you agree?

[Anonymous]

So, I keep seeing people talk about the friendzone, And, It normally involves ''They are so sweet but just not my type!!''

And, This works for both genders (though often guys get friendzoned 90% more because girls have 99% of the power in relationships)

So, Do you think the the Friendzone, Is really just a nice way of saying ''Your nice but not hot enough'' ?

Yes, Friendzone = Ugly Zone

No, Friendzone = Something else?

[Anonymous]

It's not necessarily the Ugly Zone. It's more like the "Un-Cool" Zone, which is just as lousy as being judged for your looks.

My impression of the friendzone is that it's what happens when you make a bad impression of yourself to the girl you like. It's when you accidentally give her the impression that you are boring instead of getting her to think of you as a fun, interesting, exciting, and cool guy.

This, I believe, is also why jerks and scumbags do so well with women - because society perceives them as "cool". I feel like being a "bad boy" (drinking and drugs, tattoos, cocky macho "rebel" attitude, criminal record, etc.) seems to be the easy way to do well with women. But if you don't want to be an idiot, there's another way. I feel like if you are genuinely interesting, you can beat the scumbags. But it's harder because they start out with all the advantages. You'll have to do more work.

Anyway. Some mistakes that can get you friendzoned include:

- Coming off like you don't have confidence in yourself, talking down on yourself too much

- Being indecisive and wishy-washy

- Not having a job or not being in school, not being in control or not having a clear direction in life

- Not having any money to go out and do things (you don't have to be rich but you MUST make the impression that you are in control of your life)

- Not knowing what you want, not going for something in life, not having any interests, hobbies, or passions to show a girl what drives you

- Not having enough to talk about (because you aren't doing enough, not reading enough, not pursuing any interests, etc.)

- Complaining too much

- Not speaking up when you disagree her (you have to be brave enough to voice what you believe)

- Being too available (looks like you don't have a life)

- Missing chances to flirt with her or tease her; coming across that you are afraid to be sexual

Anyway. That's all I can think of for now. It's hard for some people to get all of those right, I know I struggle with it. The thing is, unless your posture is really bad or you really don't take good care of yourself, it's probably not your looks that are the problem. It's probably your personality. Something about it is making the girl think you are un-cool or boring. You really have to think a lot to avoid it, and make sure you've got everything covered.

I wish you all the best in avoiding or even defeating the friendzone - I know it's really frustrating.

[Kapakani]

This lad!! This lad right here!!! This is genius. This is the truth! This is the friendzone guide 101.

You've suffered the horrible exp of the fz sir, this I can tell. I'm sorry:(. I've been there to. But this is spot on in my opinion dude, Ty for writing this :).

[Roostah]

"I feel like if you are genuinely interesting, you can beat the scumbags. But it's harder because they start out with all the advantages. You'll have to do more work."

Meanwhile while you waste money/time on this bitch she is getting piped by the badboy/scumbag. No thanks jeffrey.

[Anonymous]

I know many girls who I have friend zoned. They aren't ugly I just don't want to date them for various reasons. How you look isn't the most important factor for choosing who you date for some people. I friend zoned a girl because she was extremely Christian and I was an atheist. Dating her would've caused a huge riff between her and her family as well as potentially destroyed her religious belief. Friendship was the better option. I once friend zoned a girl I actually liked a lot because she had a boyfriend. Once they broke up we both realized that we wouldn't do well together in an actual relationship so we stayed friends. i've friend zoned girls for a wide variety of reasons and although sometimes it was because I didn't find them attractive most of the time it was something completely unrelated and random. I can only assume many girls friendzone guys for the same variety of reasons.

[Opinion Owner]

Also women definitely do not hold 99% of the power in a relationship. Whoever told you that is living one sad sad life.

[Asker]

I see where you are coming form, But thats a religious reason, And that rarely happens during friendzoning. You are an exception to a rule.

And, Yah, Women do hold 99% of the power. Dating is their choice, Not the guys.

[Opinion Owner]

Trust me dude outside of high school when people are dating for the actual purpose of substantial long term relationships and not just a distraction from boring teenage life I am not the exception. That rule just doesn't exist. Either your friends who have an obvious and meaningful reason not to date or your not friends at all. The guys that claim girls are friend zoning them that are my aged usually don't even have girls as friends they just know a few girls that don't actively avoid them. And women only hold 99% of the power in relationships with guys who have no sense of self worth or any belief in their own self efficacy.

[Asker]

Woah dude, This isn't about me, Im just taking observations from what i've seen happening haha.

Hell, I haven't even talked to a girl in 2 years now since i finished school and started work, Let alone been able to get friendzoned by one haha. I ain't fussed though, I dont even want or plan on ever dating, So this isn't about me ;).

And, The women 99% power thing, Thats because, As with every other specie in the animal kingdom, The males need to ''Compete'' for the female, I. e look the best, have the most money, etc etc etc. All the woman needs to do is spread her legs and choose.

[Opinion Owner]

None of my comment were about you... Also I majored in biology. It's not as simple as that. Competition is also dependent upon the ratio of men to women, the surrounding environment and the structure of the organisms social system. Beyond this there's a reason human beings have stepped foot on and lived successfully on every continent on this planet. We're a complex organism and attempting to reduce our behavioral patterns to pure biological frameworks is going to produce a lot of outliers and exceptions. No other organism has recorded history or cross cultural communication. These things have a huge influence on our behavior. You can't explain the dating world as if men are picking up resources, accomplishments and skill points to compete for and successfully acquire women. It's a comfortable way to look at things but it's far from realistic.

[Xi3s3r]

so well she's Christian is PRUDE doesn't make Sex with you.

Leaving her that she is already put you in friendzone so you're ready to QUIT.
she's already a boyfriend is Christian than PRUDE.

[Opinion Owner]

Not all Christians are prudish and not all Christians practice abstinence so you can take your angst driven generalizations and judgement elsewhere @Xi3s3r, your opinion was neither relevant or helpful for this conversation. I'm not sure where your need to attack people different from you comes from but if your looking to degrade people I have no problem returning the favor.

[Xi3s3r]

totally I'm prejudice to women's are prudish ( jehovah witness ), experience I was 17 old Virgin problem. lol

[Opinion Owner]

I'm struggling to understand your English...

[Xi3s3r]

not offensive that you struggling that my English or Grammar doesn't matter, I'm Deaf. Oh man dude. ;)

[Opinion Owner]

All the deaf people I know can read and write just fine...

[Opinion Owner]

But rereading your post. The way your sentences flow it does see like your translating from another language. I don't know ASL well so I'm not sure how it would look if translated directly. Either way there's no need to be angry and judge mental towards women or Christians. Not all of them are the same.

[Xi3s3r]

Depends but almost other Deaf guy's aren't relationship between with Hearing Girl,
most Girl's feeling uncomfortable/stares doesn't know ASL or misunderstand with Deaf men communicate.
well about Deaf girl's use ASL very good but still times Stubborn doesn't open relationship or foreplay.

it's always hard find to Deaf girls are invisible.

[Opinion Owner]

That sucks man. I hope you can find someone who gets were your coming from and tries to understand you.

[Opinion Owner]

Just gotta keep trying. Don't let the bad times of the past ruin your future

[Bozikins]

*Disclaimer: I'm not talking to OP directly; any use of the word "you" is purely in the general sense*

I don't think it's necessarily a hot/not hot type of thing, but sexual attraction is a part of it. What I consider physically attractive may not be the conventional definition of hot, and what others consider hot may not work for me. Take, for example, three guys that I know. All three have very similar physical characteristics: short stocky white boys with blonde hair and blue eyes. However, I only consider two of them physically attractive and only one of those two I would actually sleep with. Why? Because the other one and I have a relationship with one another more akin to siblings than anything romantic or sexual. You wouldn't sleep with your brother, would you (at least, I certainly hope not)? Similarly, there may someone I consider hotter than all getout, but he may have some unattractive qualities to him: a nasty drug habit, asshole tendencies, disdain for women, etc. Basically, someone's level of attractiveness to me could be physical or personality-based in nature. It's not for another person to dictate or try to convince me of. Just like you may not be attracted to every person who has ever liked you, this person may not happen to be attracted to everyone who has ever liked him/her.

To those who ask, "Why is s/he good enough to be friends with, but not romantically?" I say this: I'm not selecting friends the same way I'm selecting someone to possibly be my partner in life and start a family. Their role may be lifelong in nature, but I don't hold them to the same standard because they don't have the same role in my life. What may work in a friend would not work in a boyfriend/husband.

I don't know why men or women get mad about being "friendzoned." No one owes you the pleasure of their friendship, either, so if you want it to be an all or nothing relationship, make that clear. Be prepared for the consequences if the answer is not a desirable one. Is rejection upsetting? Absolutely. You may feel like you are the best person for that individual, but he/she doesn't think so. Getting mad about it isn't going to change that fact; in fact, you'll just come across as a selfish asshole. You just simply aren't the right fit for each other. Stop blocking that person's potential blessings and yours as well and devote your energies to cultivating relationships with those who want what you want.

[TheSkaFish]

I just think if someone's attractiveness level is personality-based, and that's where the problem is, then I don't see why they can't fix whatever's wrong with their personality and become more attractive for it.

Isn't it possible the person doing the friendzoning is wrong? Can't it change if the person changes from however they were before, that gets them seen as unattractive?

[Bozikins]

@TheSkaFish Their personality characteristic may not be "wrong," just not desired by that person. They can fix it, but it may or may not change anything. Once some people's minds are made up, that's it. It won't matter what you do. Some people WILL be like, "Hey, maybe this will work" and give them a chance.

How can a person's opinion be wrong, exactly? It can be different, but not wrong. I've ever found someone attractive later, so it is possible, sure, but again, you can't force someone to consider you attractive. Attractiveness is all based on someone's personal tastes and preferences. They have every right not to want you.

I guess I'm more concerned that a person is so stubborn about being told no and so desperate for approval that they are willing to change who they are to meet the approval of someone who obviously has no interest. Seems like a waste of time and, honestly, kinda stupid.

[TheSkaFish]

When I say that someone's personality is "wrong" I mean, somewhere in the course of their lives, they've adopted one or more major personality traits that are generally considered unattractive. I think we can agree that some personality traits are more attractive than others, across the board. For instance, confidence is generally considered attractive by most people, while complaining is not.

A person's opinion of me could be wrong in the sense that who I was when I met them, isn't necessarily all I can ever be. I could improve for the better, could I not?

And I wouldn't say she has no interest either. When we met I wasn't doing so well and didn't know how to put my best foot forward in a situation like this. But, we got along really well. She'd want to talk to me all the time for hours and said the sweetest things. We enjoyed each other's company. But I didn't really know how to act, and it resulted in her seeing a much crappier version of myself than I could really be.

[TheSkaFish]

I'm stubborn because one, I really think this could have worked if I knew what I was doing and didn't unwittingly paint a bad picture of myself by making conversational errors which I should have known better than to make, and just not having my life together as well as I should. Two, because she's one of the few girls I've ever met in my life that had enough of the traits I am looking for in someone, she really understood some things about me and I liked that she got that. We could talk much more easily than I can with most people. She had a very unique way about her that was very fascinating and endearing. I just wouldn't be as happy with someone who doesn't excite me, after knowing she was out there and how well we could have gotten along. So that's why it's so important to me.

What about you? You said that it is possible to turn things around, and that you found someone attractive later that I'm guessing you didn't before. What changed to make you see him differently?

[emmabee11]

There uis no such thing... stop encouraging this stereotypical thing... if you were never the opposite sex's friend in the first place and was thinking of them as more right from the start and mislead them to think you ony thought of them as a friend too then you are just a lier.. . you weren't their real friend and that's not nice or honest at all... guys are the ones that mostly believe this but quite honestly it makes you act really bratty and spoiled... you act like a baby that doesn't get their lollypop... same for some girls too... but mostly guys... my advice is if you are interested in a girl be honest and show your intentions from the start not pretend to be their "friend" then start having a fit because they don't feel the same way... don't be a pussy... i know it's harder for girls though to make their intentions clear first because guys think we are just desperate and they like the chase too much so it rarely ever works, maybe with like the most shy guy in the world but rarely... but just don't lie to yourself or the person to you like, be honest, get to know them a little bit first then ask then ask them if they would like to go out to dinner with you, if they don't feel that way then fine... but at least you didn't spend the last 1 - 3 years pining over them and lying to them...

[KidanisCortes]

hmm my experience with this is that girls call you desperate this approach only works if you are good looking

[emmabee11]

Again crap... lol for guys it might be all about looks but for girls it's not... be reserve our judgement, get to know the guy, but it's quite hurtful to find a guy was never our real friend the whole time... to us girls a friend is just a friend, yes means yes and no means no, not a friend is a potential mate, yes means no, maybe means yes and no means yes like you guys think... lol, guys treat us girls like we aren't even human... but just like you guys what we mean is a simple answer, some girls might play games yes because they just like the attention, they cheat or they are just playing the field (something guys also do), but don't let the girls who do play games get you down, just like how us girls don't let guys who play games get us down, we are very similar in how we flirt more than you know... you just have to find that out first instead of moaning you got rejected, right from the start though we can see you rarely ever try to think of the more important things...

[DiamondRuby]

Sometimes, but not always. For starters, you're completely wrong in saying "though often guys get friendzoned 90% more because girls have 99% of the power in relationships". Guys getting rejected is more portrayed in media and is discussed more because gender roles make it more "acceptable" to talk about. If a girl rejects a guy it's fine, but if a guy rejects a girl, it's "sexist" or "he's judging her on physical appearances". I don't agree with this, but that's how society thinks, and that's why friendzoned guys are more visible.

Now to answer your question about "UglyZone", sometimes. I can definitely remember two times where I was friends with a guy, was emotionally attracted, but could not find the physical attraction. Not always, though. For me and I think most people, if the emotional attraction is strong enough (in those two cases, it wasn't), physical attraction can come with time. I've definitely had that happen as well. And other times, I can be good friends with a guy, be phsicially attracted to a guy, but if personality/values/morals are too far from what I'm looking for (say, politics), he won't be a potential love interest either. It really all depends case-by-case, but no, uglyzone is not the majority.

[sdistotallyme]

I agree with that is more socially acceptable for women to friendzone guys than the other way around. I do feel guilty about friend zoning girls I find unattractive (usually because they are overweight). However your one sentence about needing a man who shares your political views bothers me a lot. I'm finding that many liberal women expect men to be politically correct if they are going to date them. Sorry, but I'm not going to change my views just to please some girl. I say this assuming you are liberal (you might not be) because most young girls I know are very liberal and easily brainwashed by the media/pop culture.

[DiamondRuby]

I don't recall ever asking you to. I was giving an example for myself. I find it interesting that you assume I'm liberal because I'm an 18-year-old girl. I lean slightly towards the left, but I'm certainly not the liberal extreme you're picturing. My admittance that women get the easier deal when friend zoning should prove that enough.

[kaylaS91]

The friendzone is something people created to sugar-coat getting rejected. There's no way this girl/guy could just not want to date me because we're incompatible/they're not looking for someone right now, etc.. No, it's just because they put me in this goddamned friend-zone!

Classic case of shifting the blame. Saying you got friend-zoned is the person who got rejected basically trying to save face.

[Bluemax]

"No, it's just because they put me in this goddamned friend-zone!"
100% of my friends and acquaintances and about 80% of people I've spoken to on the internet do not view the friend zone this way. They do indeed understand it's rejection, and they aren't trying to save face. They view it as a form of rejection where friendship was offered, or rejection between two friends when one caught feelings for the other which were not reciprocated.

"Classic case of shifting the blame."
When you use a term like this, it seems to imply that SOMEBODY is to blame for being rejected, either the rejector or the rejected. Why do you think someone needs to be blamed? Aren't there cases where no one is to blame? I tend to think no one is to blame when someone is rejected.

[kaylaS91]

@Bluemax
By shifting the blame, I mean the person who is rejected shifts the blame from themselves. People get rejected for countless reasons, whether it be incompatibility, unwanted traits, etc.. By saying they got friend-zoned, they take the spotlight off themselves. The rejection no longer came as a result of them not being 'good enough', not having a good enough personality or appearance. Now, it's actually because the dumper preferred them as a friend more than anything else. -_-

[TheSkaFish]

Somebody is to blame. It's like in a job interview or school, if you submit too many wrong answers, you receive a failing grade. But if you had studied more beforehand, you would have known the right answers, and you might have even got the job or passed the test.

That's the frustrating thing about it. Whenever a friendzone/rejection happens, it didn't have to be that way. Usually if the guy knew how to present himself in a way that would create attraction rather than destroy it.

[TheSkaFish]

There's too many people out there who get what they want, repeatedly, for me to think that dating is random chance. Some people always get the one they want and other people don't. The people that always get what they want must be doing something correct and the people who never get what they want must be fucking up. In both cases, they are getting consistent results.

I can't just believe it's random and that my preferences don't matter, because that is a one-way ticket to victim mode. Some people do in fact get the ones they want. There's got to be a way to overturn rejection.

[kaylaS91]

@TheSkaFish
'Usually if the guy knew how to present himself in a way that would create attraction rather than destroy it.'
I hope no girl gives you a chance anytime soon. It's never a good idea to fall in love with a false projection of someone, who they're deceiving you to believe they really are just so you'll give 'them' a chance. Pathetic.

[TheSkaFish]

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying to lie to anyone. I'm saying that while the details might be different from person to person, I think there are general ways people act that are considered attractive, and there are ways that people act that are considered unattractive. Most people seem to know this instinctively, and they usually get the ones they want. But for some reason or another, some people don't know how to carry themselves. These are the ones who get rejected/friendzoned over and over and over. They are doing something wrong and they don't know it.

This is what I mean by creating and destroying attraction. There are some traits that are fundamentally attractive and there are some that are fundamentally not. Our personalities are something we learned over time - no one has to be any particular way. Whatever we think "ourselves" is, is something we learned to be. "Being yourself" is only good advice if "yourself" is helping you. If it isn't, then you have to change it.

[Anonymous]

You are very young and still learning the ropes. However do yourself a favor and do a youtube search for "Corey Wayne" and watch ALL of his videos. Even buy his book (I have no financial interest in promoting him btw).

The problem is most young men (if not almost all) have absolutely no training when it comes to behaving in the way women REALLY want (not the way they say they want). Women on the other hand are trained at very young age to understand relationships and how to become picky/choosy (often excessively). Unfortunately you are exactly right about them having all the power. However you can change that.

Thanks to liberalism and feminism hetereosexual men have been under assault for the last 30-40 years. You are likely getting brainwashed by liberal teachers and definitely influenced by the liberal media/pop culture on how to "please women" and put them up on a pedal stool. THAT is getting you friend zoned (or ugly zoned) my friend. Also looks do matter... but far far less to women then you think. I say this because I was athletic good looking yet very clueless, overly nice and a new age doormat when I was your age. I was told often I was "cute" and I thought that would get me far... but it only got me a smile occasionally. it did not get me into the pants of the girls I desired. Also dating advice for young men in late 90s/early 2000s was virtually nonexistent. No one ever gave me advice on how to properly approach and date women (to get my needs met). Fortunately there has been some feminist backlash and dating support for men. I tuned in to Doc Love podcasts a few years ago. He gave me advice on how to toughen up. Corey Wayne is basically a younger doc love (he also talks about hook ups and swears more). He's also very entertaining.

Learn to work on yourself before blaming girls. Listen to Corey.

[Asker]

Dude, I've never been friendzoned, this isn't about me, i have no interest in dating mate.

Just trying to me sense or the whole friendzone thing.

[Goldie757]

Not necessarily, people can put others in the friend zone for multiple reasons.
1. They have a partner.
2. They are not looking for a relationship
3. They want different things.
4. They don't like how they have treated guys/girls in the past.
5. They have different morals or beliefs.
6. They think the person is too young/old for them.
7. They didn't realise that the other person is trying to pursue them.
8. They are at different stages in life.
9. They have undesirable traits as immaturity.
10. They don't know what they want.

[FutterwackenMcSappin]

To answer the question in your extension box, Yes. That is the gist of it. You are just not their type, meaning you don't send off sexual fireworks when he/she looks your way.
Some women have to mature. Others are just bitches in that they love attention. And if that includes F'ing with your heartstrings, then she's gonna play a Beethoven solo with your ass.
Now guys, guys more or less put women in the Friendzone to protect them. We can easily lead a woman on if it means free sex, but guys are way more compassionate when placing women in the Friendzone. For us it's like, "Hang here, okay? If what I'm into works out, then we're still friends and you're not 2nd banana. If it doesn't, then we're going for ice cream."

[Roostah]

Yes friendzone is really the ugly zone.

Which is why this is needed to get relationships (male perspective of course)
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...1320574450.jpg

[Xi3s3r]

maybe? if remember it how look like Elliot Rodger own Car BMW, Millionaire... why? this is Painfully.

[Roostah]

Yes but he came off as a creep and wanted a particular type of woman to like him. He had women interested but wanted a blonde beauty.

[TheSkaFish]

Hah that's a funny picture. Although in my experience, Mario would need not so much money and cars (if all it took was a car, I'd be set - I wish it were that easy), and more like, he needs to be cocky, covered in tattoos, and drink and do drugs all the time. Criminal record optional, but definitely gives bonus points.

Yeah, this is why I like a few exceptions, but for the most part I hate people. Because they're stupid.

[chnapo]

I would give you 99999 MHO for this :DDD

[AvaMarina]

A lot of the time, you're probably right. :/ Not always though. Personality (therefore compatibility) factors into "types" as well, to be fair. Exhibit A: The last guy I friendzoned is physically attractive to me. But his personality is the almost the total opposite of what I like for dating, because what I look for in friends isn't the same as what I look for in boyfriends. I'm sure I'm not the only one like that.

Is he a good friend? Yeah, for sure. Would I date him if looks were the only relevant factor? Totally. But we're definitely incompatible for dating.

[TheSkaFish]

I've heard that a lot and it's confusing, the whole concept of compatibility/incompatibility. Especially if you are already friends. It seemed to me that any two people could be compatible as long as they found each other at least reasonably attractive, and either had a sufficient amount of interests and ideals in common and/or were able to have flowing conversations easily.

The more I think about it the more I think my problem is that I have a personality that is low in masculinity - it would make sense for the problems I've had.

Do you think that a person can change their personality, and in doing so go from incompatible to compatible? Especially if the looks and whatever it is that makes him a good friend is already there? I've been in that situation and it seems I'm so close but so far away, cause she liked my looks and we could talk really well. I think it was this lack of masculinity I have, that I've been trying to change.

[AvaMarina]

Because friends are on a different level of appreciation and intimacy. Best friends come closer to dating standards (and I only mean standards as in different qualifications, not better qualifications), but it's still not the same thing and I wouldn't want to date someone like my best friend, lol.

I'm not sure masculinity is the problem for you, as I know so many girls who don't really care, but if that's something you want to change about yourself, you probably could. In my (totally unprofessional) opinion, personality can be changed to an extent. I think you can build on traits you already have or control traits you aren't as happy with, but I don't think you can summon up a brand new personality out of nowhere. What are some masculine things you enjoy or traits you do have? You could start by building on those and see how it goes!

But a word of warning: if you don't know exactly what a girl is looking for, you might be changing something she doesn't care about or even likes, so

[AvaMarina]

Make sure you're happy with the changes yourself, too. And there's no guarantee she'll fall for you even if you do guess right about what she's looking for, you know?

Sorry for the absurdly long response. I am not a concise person. >.<

[AvaMarina]

@TheSkaFish

[TheSkaFish]

It's okay. I appreciate you took the time to give me a detailed reply. I think it is low masculinity though, because I've never really cultivated the confidence and sexual aggression that a male is supposed to have. This is because I've always believed in being a gentleman and didn't want to talk and act like a sleaze. She talked to me in a sort of flirty way a couple times and looking back I kinda dropped the ball.

I also think I demonstrated low masculinity when I let my guard down and overshared about my problems. I wasn't really doing so well when I met her, I didn't have it together, I had lots of self-doubt and I wasn't really going for the things I wanted. Honestly I don't think I came off as too attractive or exciting, but we could talk really well, so that's probably why she thought we'd be good as friends.

I know I could use some self-improvement in general, and I'm in this mess cause I've never felt confident in my life.

[TheSkaFish]

Anyway, I took some time off from talking to her for a while, cause we were fighting a lot about her friendzoning me, and I want to just give the bad impression of me that I made some time to be less fresh in her memory. I hope that by taking time away from her, and by changing some things, that there's a chance I can get her to see me as being a different, more attractive person than I was the first time.

[AvaMarina]

@TheSkaFish
Ah, I see what you're talking about. That actually does sound like that might be what did you in. It's really good that you can look at the situation with a clear mind and see where you probably went wrong, though. Taking some time off from the friendship is a good move, let it settle down and work on yourself while waiting.

I'm sorry you've had trouble with confidence. I know that's a big thing a lot of people look for, and it really does affect general quality of life, in my opinion. Do you think you've made any progress on the self-improvement yet?

[TheSkaFish]

Yeah, I've just never felt confident because I never felt like I was a natural at anything, such as sports, academics, art, being social, and so on. Now I think people can get good at things without being a natural, but because I wasn't confident from the beginning, I'm still trying to get back on track.

She did say sometimes, when I was unwittingly oversharing, that I "need to just pick a path and commit" or that I "talk like someone who knows they are not going to get what they want". So I think this might have something to do with it, along with some other things. I've been reading about attraction and some ideas that consistently come up are that women generally like confident men who know who they are, what they want, and are going for something in life. On the other hand, they don't like self-doubting directionless guys much, and really don't like complainers. The thing is, like you said, I don't know for sure if that was the issue. And there are other problems as well.

[TheSkaFish]

As far as progress, I haven't made as much as I should have. But I think I've gained a lot of self-awareness, especially of some personality habits I have cultivated that are less than attractive. Like I was saying, I didn't have confidence in myself and my abilities for the longest time and because of that, I got into the habit of playing the victim because that's all I thought I could be. And as I've learned and read many times now, women really don't respond well to that personality.

I still think I have a lot to do and I don't think I'm ready to talk to her yet. But I just hope that there is some chance at all, even if it will be a while. I worry though because I did a lot of damage arguing with her about her friendzoning me. I just hope that time away from each other really can help cool things off and re-set her image of me. Plus if I actually show her that I've fixed some of the problems she had with me, without saying that I fixed them just for her, of course.

[Takada]

The "friendzone" has so many definitions these days, that I don't know what the underlying reason is anymore.
1. Some guys who get rejected by a stranger/acquaintance whom they never see again say they've been friendzoned.
2. Some guys who never confessed their feelings to their crush whom they barely know say they've been friendzoned.
3. Some guys who never confessed their love to their best friend say they're friendzoned.
4. Some guys who confessed their love to a girl, but she said she would rather "just be friends" and then treats him like a friend. They also say they've been friendzoned.

The only guys whom I think are TRULY friendzoned are the 4th type.

[OpenClose]

Not really.

I've had several friendships that I did not want to risk destroying by dating them, at least until it could go further. Dating is most often much shorter-term than friendships, and I really value friendships, so it really has to work out right.

There are a lot of girls I am attracted to, and friends with, but whom I wouldn't be able to stand dating. Girls ready to rip a guy's throat out for calling her "cute", or respond to nicknames with "I've got a name asshole." They may be cool girls to hang around, but that doesn't mean it would be fun dating them.

A lot of times, people feel they can be more open with their friends than their partners. In those cases, it seems like a step backwards to date them.

There are loads of other reasons. Yes, being unattractive could, and often is, one of them. Several of my friends have tried to go out with me, but I just wasn't interested in them, and didn't want to waste their time.

[OpenWine]

My brotha from anotha motha

[Xi3s3r]

lame, are you still almost midage

[Lochlan]

It's a strange term. Like, you have friends, but that doesn't apply. How do you even stay around with a girl with whom you hope for it to be anything more but it's been established that both parties won't consensually engage? Other than you guys having to work at a job or on a course project together. If the girl is giving you the time of day, and you feel it, you just have to initiate, make the move. It can be nerve-wracking but sometimes they want you to take the lead and set the pace.

I have not entertained notions from girls who I know are in a relationship or when I'm in one. It can be bullshit if a lady has a boyfriend but accepts to go to the movies with you.

Unless you are inviting or being invited by someone to go to a pizza party with them, friend zone is UNACCEPTABLE!

[bananaman57]

I've had girls who had interest in me who later put me in the friend zone.
Also I've had sexual relations with women whom I PERSONALLY put in the friend zone.

Majority of the men are ugly but if you think seduction has all to do with looks then you're looking at this in a black and white perspective. If you think you're ugly then go to the gym. Muscles compensate for beauty. Also a rule of thumb is to limit your kindness with women at first approach. Some human beings see kindness as weakness and try to play you for a sucker to stimulate their own ego (sometimes even uses you for free food),

[TheSkaFish]

I'd agree with this. ESPECIALLY the part about limiting your kindness with women as you are getting to know them. I am naturally kind so this is hard for me. I'll ask a girl about her day and actually mean it. I'll listen to her when she's sad. I'll respond to her if she talks to me. I'll enjoy chatting with her, because I genuinely like her and care about her. I know, stupid me for thinking I can treat a woman like a person when they insist that no matter how sweet you are and how good your intentions, the most important thing to them is that their stupid attraction rules MUST be followed to the letter, no exceptions. Any deviation from their rules results in a friendzone.

So yes. Limiting your kindness with women before you are in a relationship with them is an absolute MUST. People mistake kindness for weakness. Because they are retarded.

[Anonymous]

Well most guys who complain about the friendzone just call themselves good guys but they're usually assholes themselves. Literally all of the ones that I know are.

"though often guys get friendzoned 90% more because girls have 99% of the power in relationships"
Wrong! It happens to girls just as often but they just accept it and move on. Guys just say that they got "friendzoned" because they feel that they're entitled to every girl they like.

Overall, the friendzone is something made up by "nice guys" (aka assholes) so they can guilt girls who don't date them.

[falafelany1]

Alright. I was "friend zoned" by this guy I really liked and we had so much in common that I thought it was impossible for him not to like me. However, he was immature and he wasn't interested in having a girlfriend and he was still getting over another girl he liked. I am not trying to brag but I know I am not ugly. I am kind and smart as well. There is no friendzone= you're ugly formula.

[kitty71]

I went through the same thing just recently. I was friend zone but in my case the guy never told me the reason why he just blew me off by text with no explaining me anything and he did it while he was in Europe and he is 42 years old!!! i still wnt to know why he sent me the odd text. We had cehmistry, things in common, I broke the ice so easily with him, he flirted with me, I felt he liked me, we first go out together to know each other more, we made out passionately at the end of the date, the following days we even talked about going out again and in the case we hang out I even was going to invite him, he agreed. Some people have told me that maybe the fact he is the best friend of my cousin may had something to do with it, that hedid not want to jeopardize his friendship because he s my cousin. Sorry but I think taht is an excuse.

[falafelany1]

Whatever his reason I am sorry for you! You do not deserve that treatment.

[Anonymous]

The if you are in the friendzone is because you have some things in common wit the person but you just dont have the romantic connection or attraction towards that person. That doesn't mean that in the future nothing is gonna happen cause it could change around and you might end up wit that person.

This is very different to a friendship of course. Friendszone is when you try to get into a relationship with her but he/she is just not responding to your hints and tells you that he/she is just looking for friends at the moment.

[TheSkaFish]

Yeah, that's happened to me a couple times. Where I had some things in common with a girl and we could talk very well, and I liked the way I looked but they didn't see me as more than a friend even though they were sweet to me all the time and acted like they enjoyed my company. Maybe I just have to wait for them to grow out of the bad boy phase, I don't know.

I'm glad that you think that it's possible that things could change though, and that they might see me as more than a friend someday. Do you have any advice for what I could do to improve my chances of getting them to see me as a potential romantic interest?

[Opinion Owner]

@TheSkaFish the reason why im saying it could change is because it has happened to me in the past where i started as friends of course i was attracted to them but i didn't think those girls would ever be interested in me. Until one day that changed and i hooked up with one of them and we both were in a relationship (clearly we werent happy in our relationships) anyways. The point is that things could change at any point and she could grow feelings for you.

My advice is that if you dont want to be so straight forward and you are patient like me start doing little things like going out for ice cream or one day bring them like a flower or write a letter telling them how amazing you feel when you are with them. Make sure they dont know each ither6or if they do make sure they don't know about you doing all these things cause they might think its nornal when it comes from you. But just do those little things and flirt with them and they will grow feelings for you! Good luck!

[Lissie257]

I've friendzoned a guy who is attractive. But the reason he's friendzoned is because we have different morals and he wants to get with me even though he has a girlfriend. Thats not right in my eyes.

[snowangle]

Why do guys down vote this? Hahaha. You refuse to help a boy cheat. That's the right thing to do.

[AleDeEurope]

@snowangle I also don't understand why she got downvoted :S She did what a decent person would do.

[Xi3s3r]

NO. He's cheat you, definitely will having sex you.

[emmabee11]

Lol guys don't like it when you don't give any member of their sex any booty time... they encourage other males to act this way... to them they think if their sex don't get any sexy time then they will become extinct and they know it's a mans world out there... they know men have power over women when it comes to most things... they don't want that to happen... lol it's sad... it's about power for them... typical really... plus they hate not getting their weekly dose of an ego boost... when they sleep with a girl they go and brag to their friends right after then go "I bet you can't get a girl in bed ha... ", acting like they are the grestest *snort and rolls eyes*, even in the chimp community the female chimps ignore the males because they act the same way... they show off way too much, they don't like females with morals because it means you won't put out... you will be harder to get sex out of... oh no no... they don't like that lol but it's sick that they think THAT low of females.

[KidanisCortes]

This is a classsic case I agree with her completely

[AleDeEurope]

I see the friendzone as what it literally is: an "imaginary" place where all your friends are. Therefore anyone that is my friend, is in the friendzone, ergo, no, the friendzone isn't the ugly zone, at least not based on my definition of friendzone.

[jessi-chan]

Well... It can be sometimes. I've friendzoned guys because they were just too unattractive (like 2/10), but if he was even moderately attractive (4-6/10) I wouldn't friendzone just for his looks.
In the latter case, it's more likely because I've seen the way that he treated other girls, and I know that he would be terrible boyfriend material. Or it could be that he has some annoying habits that would just get more annoying if I had to spend more time with him.

[TheSkaFish]

If it's just annoying habits though, couldn't you just suggest that he stop doing whatever it is he does that annoys you? What if he stops doing those things on his own all of a sudden? Would he become more attractive to you?

I just wonder if a girl thinks a guy is terrible boyfriend material and friendzones him, isn't there some way that he can prove that he is in fact good boyfriend material, if he changes what was wrong with him? It's like tests in school. Some people are smart but bad test takers, or they have a bad day and fail a test that they normally would have passed. Isn't there any way a guy could change how a girl perceives him?

[jessi-chan]

For the first part, the annoying habits might not be something that he's doing consciously or something that he's necessarily doing wrong. They're just part of who he is, so it would be a bit rude to point them out in my opinion. And sometimes habits that annoy one person might not annoy other people, so it would be wrong to try to get him to change just for me.

I don't judge whether a guy is bad boyfriend material based on one incident - it's usually more cumulative. So it's not like faking a test at school, it's like failing out of almost every single course and not being able to graduate. Again, it's a innate personality trait thing, like a chronic habit of lying to his girlfriends or constantly playing the victim. He might be good enough to be a friend, but not necessarily someone good enough to date... As for whether or not he could change, I think this has to be seen in a case to case basis.

Are you thinking about anyone in particular? If you message me the details, I'd be glad help.

[TheSkaFish]

@jessi-chan , I would appreciate it. I'm too sleepy to get into detail on it now, but thank you for your offer.

[TheSkaFish]

Yeah, I think that's one thing that I did wrong - I accidentally played the victim, and didn't realize what I was doing, how bad it was, or why. I've started to read up on attraction these past couple years and I've seen that idea a lot.

Anyway. Yes, it is indeed someone particular that I'm trying to get out of the friendzone with.

[jessi-chan]

Aweh that sucks. Well now that you know what you did wrong, and you clearly want to change and be a better person, I think you can change :) the trick is to show her that you really want to change, and I think she might open up to you

[Anonymous]

Why even bother saying "friendzone"? Women have the power in dating these days, and whiteknights will endlessly and eternally support them so they can feel warm and good about themselves on the inside. Instead of saying "omg friendzone" all the time, just accept that a girl is not interested in you and move on. It's not the end of the world, and those "rejections" will make you stronger as a person. When you do that, you take the power away from angry ideologues on the Internet whose only purpose is to make you feel like a loser.

Women and whiteknight males constantly try to make guys feel like crap on the Internet for some reason - don't let them do it to you. Whenever you get rejected, pick yourself up by the bootstraps and move on. Just remember, we are not meant to be everyone's cup of tea, and not everyone is meant to be ours, either.

[TheSkaFish]

It is indeed the end of the world when you have screwed up with all of the most attractive and interesting women that you would have loved to have in your life, but because you didn't know how to create attraction you made the wrong impression that you wanted to make EVEN THOUGH you had stuff in common and/or you could have real conversations with these women and they enjoyed talking to you. But you came across wrong and there are no more girls like that and now it's all downhill from there. It's funny because as a guy, girls reject me for not "clicking" with them, for not creating enough attraction. But then if I want a relationship, the only option that's left to me is to fake interest in someone that I don't think really "clicks" with me, who I'm not really attracted to and would never actually CHOOSE to date if it were up to me, but I have to pretend to be attracted and pretend like they "click" just because it's that or nothing.

Fun!

[Opinion Owner]

@TheSkaFish I an not going to attempt to invalidate your feelings. Life is tough. Especially when people say you have privilege for being born with a dick, yet you are basically screwed in so, so, so many situations it's insane. My point was that nothing will change except you, all you can do is grow as a man and accept reality, and brutal and bitter a pill that is to swallow.

[TheSkaFish]

I never said I had privilege for being born with a penis. What I do say is that I deserve better than to be treated like shit, because I am not a piece of shit. I know I am worth more than that.

I suppose I just have to "suck it up" and accept that the tattooed druggie tough guy shitbags are the ones who get to choose in this life, the ones who get a monopoly on happiness, meanwhile I am expected to content myself for a miserable life of quiet desperation with someone who doesn't fulfill me.

Well... fuck that.

[Opinion Owner]

@TheSkaFish My point was basically that since you are a guy, you have the disadvantage. People think you have privilege. Women have the power in the dating game. But, it's just a fact of our modern society that the more brutish, aggressive type guys get the girl. How old are, you? I'm 23, and trust me, it gets better. One day you will realize what I am trying to tell you; that the world is unjust, and it will only get worse, and all you can do is improve your own quality of life and accept life as it comes.

Some guy downvoted me, and I'm not sure why. Yes, guys have it really bad in this situation these days, but getting depressed and complaining about it will put you in an even worse spot. We need to be the better people here.

[TheSkaFish]

I'm 29 and still waiting for the dating situation to improve, as I have all my life. The problem is that the girls I like are on the younger side.

I responded to you so harshly because I don't believe acceptance of a bad situation is the answer, and I absolutely hate it with a passion when anyone suggests that I am "entitled". I hate that word like hell. Why? Because growing up, I thought I was naturally not good enough, just naturally in the loser crew and I couldn't expect to get a girl that I wanted. And sure enough, I let people treat me like crap because I thought that's all I could expect as someone of my "station". And I felt like crap too. Now, I refuse. It's not entitlement, it's standing up for myself, standing up to the world. It's saying, damn it, I AM good enough, I have a lot to offer, and I WILL be treated better than this. I look at the guys who have girlfriends, including the girls I want, and I know I'm better than some of these jerks, 100%.

[Evan_aa]

I chose A. I think that's what it is like " I love all of your personality traits I just wished you looked a little better". For me personally that's why I put guys in the friendzone. They are everything I would want in a boyfriend besides the cute/Smoking hot part.

[ccp16]

Not true. one of my best friends is a girl. She is tall, blonde, blue eyed, foreign, thin and big chested. I never once considered dating her and she actually pursued me. I just knew we would never click that way and I valued her as an individual enough to keep our friendship and I am very happy with that decision.

[RinaJMB]

Friendzone= bullshit Do you know how betrayed I fell when a person I rely on, only ever approached with the mask of a friend, even though it was his/her romantic interest on the way? Friendship is based on honesty just like every relationship, if I can't trust you can be my nothing. So I didn't reject you because you are "ugly" I rejected you because you broke my trust.

[Asker]

Im sorry, But what does trust have to do with this ? 0_o

[RinaJMB]

It has to do with the fact that most guys put the blame on women for not being interested in them, making them seem the "bad guy" of the situation. Terms like "frienzone" are invalid, when a person rejects another, the rejected one, male or female, puts the blame on the other one. This happens because they are hurt, but when you publically call me so shallow that I- or anybody - reject you purely on your appearance i get offended, leading to my previous enraged babbling...

[Octavius]

Nope the friendzone is just the "I got rejected but I don't want to use the word 'rejected' because then it makes me sound like a loser so I'll just replace it with 'friendzone'..."

[Victoria963]

Exactly

[Bluemax]

And yet not one person I know personally sees the friend zone the way you just put it, Octavius. And frankly most I've spoken to on GAG don't see it that way either.

[Xi3s3r]

girls are not say word "reject", only is hide mind and always saying "nice guy"