Seriously, How Does This Make You Transphobic?

Seriously, How Does This Make You Transphobic?

I brought up a post I'd seen on GaG some time ago to my good friend who works at a center that helps mainly youth with education and prevention of HIV/AIDS. The post went something along the lines of, Ava started dating Jon, Jon and Ava were making out, it got to be a bit more intimate, hands went down pants, Ava discovered that Jon was a biological female, but Ava didn't freak out. She told 'him' that she was only interested in biological men. Jon got upset and questioned why it was a problem for Ava. Ava told their good friends about it. The friends backed Ava up.

For me personally, I have come to a point in my life where if what you want to be is someone completely different from your biology, go do that. I'd rather that person be happy as they are or want to be then try to make them conform to something I believe to be true, which is, we are born as we are, made by our parents, and that is what is meant to be. So sure, go live your life because that is what you personally believe about yourself, that you are born in the wrong body. However, when it comes to myself, if I were in that situation as Ava was, I would have done the same thing. I'm only interested in men, bye. So I tell my friend this, and she says, well, that makes you transphobic...and our argument began.

Seriously, How Does This Make You Transphobic?

This is the same issue I have with people saying, if you don't want to date someone outside of your race, you're racist towards them. There IS a difference between saying, I don't want to date you who happens to be x race, followed by 10 different stereotypes or some hate speech about that race, and just saying, I just prefer to date whatever race I am. You cannot force someone to like what they don't like, even if they were raving lunatic racists. I wouldn't want someone to be dating me because of my skin color or out of some sort of race guilt specifically, but for who I am as a person.

So cut to this whole transphobic thing. I have trans friends, but just like all other friends in my life, they are honest with me about their lives and we don't keep secrets because we are friends.They prefer who they want to date, and so do I. There is no problem there, no misunderstandings, no wool over the eyes. It is, in their own words, VERY dangerous to surprise someone especially in an intimate way, with the fact that you are not biologically what you presented yourself as even if you believe yourself to be a man or a woman. There are people who get violent or who would even go so far as to kill them for doing so. A couple of cases actually have gone to court with that premise. Knowing all that, why would anyone chance it, or chance being outed in that way if they are truly undercover or not wanting anyone to know without having some type of dialogue before it got to that point?

Seriously, How Does This Make You Transphobic?

On top of that, Jon getting mad seems totally hypocritical. Jon, I would assume, desires to be accepted for who he is as a man, however, by not respecting Ava's desire to only date/sleep with biological men, it's doing exactly what Jon wouldn't want to happen to him which is to be treated as someone who's mind can and will just change as to their sexual preference on a whim because someone declares it should. Again, I asked my friend, how does this make someone transphobic? It doesn't. Because I prefer a man with male body parts, I am supposed to what, change my mind just because I was essentially, in my mind, tricked into potentially dating this person. I would be just as miffed if a guy I was seeing for a while announced, oh by the way, I'm married, but we can still do this right. He would have presented himself as this one thing, but the truth was much different, and if you have to lie or deceive someone in chance that they *may* be cool with it, then one should prepare themselves for the eventuality that it's not likely going to work out, or in the case of Jon, may end in a very dangerous way.

Does this mean I fully accept trans persons for who they are and present themselves as, I guess to them, probably not completely if I were in that Ava situation rejecting Jon for not being a guy in my eyes, but I don't bother trans people, I don't line up with hate signs, clearly, I have trans friends, I don't protest against their fight for rights, I don't vote against trans issues, because again, live your life, be happy as you,...but when it comes to me and my life, if you want support for all of that from anyone, and for me to accept all of that, then conversely, one must accept me for who I am and for who I, or in this case, Ava prefers in the bedroom. Rejecting you because you are not as you presented yourself to someone to be does not make one transphobic. It means they like what they like, and you like what you like. Period.

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Most Helpful Guy

  • Trigger happy children get offended by everything and try to shame and attack everyone for pointing out their retarded thinking.

    Having a preference isn't racist, sexist, or discriminatory. It's a preference.
    I don't want to date a dude, even if it claims to be a female. (or even had it's penis crammed up inside itself.) If someone thinks that makes me transphobic, to fucking bad. I am a straight male, I am attracted to actual women.
    I don't have a "phobia" about trans people because of that sexual preference.

    I wouldn't want to fuck children even if that child claims to be an adult. Doesn't make me child phobic. I don't have any issues with children, I just don't want to fuck them.

    I don't want to skydive because I think it's dangerous, that doesn't make me skydive phobic. If you want to do it, fucking do it. That's your choice, but don't try and force me to do it and claim if I don't I'm some evil bullshit you made up.

    • LOL! This actually made me laugh out loud. Your crude points are shrewd ones. I like a lot of people in this world as friends or because they are good people, but that doesn't translate to a) I want to sleep with them or b) I should want to sleep with them. Attraction is something very much hard wired into us. It is learned at an early age most times, and cultivated over our lifetimes no matter what your orientation is. You cannot force it, and as many have said, if that makes you transphobic than so be it. At that point, that is not my problem. I'm not going to just sleep with any old person because they claim I should want them.

    • Not wanting to be "friends" with a trans person would be a different situation. As you could easily infer from my post, I was obviously talking about the dating world only.

    • Yeah when I don't want my partner to have blue eyes because they remind me of my dead brother it doesn't mean I'm blue-eyes-phobic lol In fact being with one person in the world is turning down all the rest. Is it humanophobic and your girlfriend/boyfriend is just an exception? Trans people should accept that they were born different and they are not biologically the opposite sex, not fully even after surgeries. On the other hand if they get to know someone who falls in love with their personality and doesn't want to be with them because they're trans - it means that it's not a good person to have a relationship with. You cannot force anyone to accept anything, but you can draw your own conclusions.

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Most Helpful Girl

  • The Q in the 1st pic, should be asked to trans people, who don't date other trans people. Instead of only being asked to gay or straight people.

    • Most trans people do date other trans people?

    • @Laura_Marx Maybe, maybe not. But I'm sure at least some don't. I've seen them mention how they have regular/non-trans bfs and gfs.

    • I mean, most trans people are open to dating cis people, sure. But most trans people want to date other trans people. I'm telling you this as a trans women. We date each other primarily. That's why these types of questions are so frustrating to me... Cis people have this moral dilemma over dating us and for the most part we don't want anything to do with it. No trans person wants to date someone who would ask this type of question

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What Girls & Guys Said

14 40
  • Why would you care enough to write a long GAG myTake about it?

    It seems like people who think it's transphobic vs people who don't think it's transphobic aren't speaking the same language. Trans people think you don't like them just because they're trans. They don't seem to understand that it's not even a matter of preference--it's a matter of sexual orientation. People here saying "preference" are using the wrong word. The truth is if a trans person wants to date, they need to suck up the fact that they can never 100% live as the sex they want to be seen as because the past always gets in the way... which means they need to date people like pansexuals, not people who are strictly straight or strictly gay. What they do is like how some straight men beg lesbians to f*ck them. Lesbians like boobs and vaggies, not d! cks, and same for straight people and gay people, i. e. they like certain body parts and that is part of the definition of being their orientation.

    Like some others have said, I do think race is different by the reasons people give because those reasons tend to boil down to being *because of race* in a negative sense. No one is seriously like "I just prefer to date my own race." It's almost always "X race is not attractive BECAUSE of their race," i. e. "Y race is more attractive than X race just because of their race." Why is it okay to openly say that and not to openly say "Y race is lame because of their race" (saw someone whining about this on GAG a couple of days ago)? That's where there's no difference. Plus, you haven't seen everyone of every race, so there can be an attractive person within the race you're mentally closed off to... basically, you don't know that you don't find that race attractive 100%... you just don't want to.

    If someone says they don't want to deal with racial issues, I completely get and respect their ability to even say that when most people won't admit it... but that's rarely the reason... it's almost always "X race is not attractive" in code. We grow up getting so many images/messages about race, including race and attractiveness, that it's harder to say your "racial preference" is 100% not from racism in complete honesty, especially given the fact that it's almost always the same race/gender combos that are preferred vs not preferred. You're not required to date anyone, but just because you think you can't help what you like doesn't excuse it from being racist.

  • My question to you is, why do you care what other people think about you?
    Especially the millions of fucking idiots on the internet and social media.

    7 billion people, each with their own meaningless opinion.

    When I was single, I only dated Asian girls. If someone said to me that I was a racist to all other non-Asian races because of that, I'd tell that person to go and have intercourse with his mother.

    I do not explain or justify my personal preference to anyone.
    That's what makes me awesome.
    You should not need to either.

    • I get one of these comments for everything I write. "Why do you care?" "Why should you care?" You could quite literally ask that about everything, thus leaving all us human beings to sit around in silence. To ask, to question, to discuss is part of life. To hear others opinions can often help inform your own or others as to what's happening in their world or how they feel about something else they hadn't ever thought of before. If you don't care, then you don't, and that's great, but it's also okay to talk about things that pop up in your world scape if you want to.

  • You ever see that picture people used to post on 4chan that went like "Do you really think I'm gonna read" and then it was a dude holding a book titled "ALL THAT SHIT by YOU"

    it was a good'n

  • I'm agree. It's not racist, sexism, transphobic, homophobic or discrimination to not be attracted to someone. I can be friends with people, but won't have sex with everybody.

    Gingers, overweight people, certain races and people who doesn't look good is my least preferred. If I'm not attracted, it won't work. I'm fully aware that I'm picky.

  • I think you can respect someone and accept them for who they are without being sexually attracted to them.

    • I most certainly agree. I have friends from all walks of life, religion, race, sexual orientation, but why are are friends and work so well is that we respect what each other is and don't try to change that. In fact, I think it would be rather impossible to do so because you are who you are, you like and believe in what you like and believe in.

    • Exactly. Not being sexually attracted to someone doesn't mean you are discriminating against them or being phobic.

    • It's also I think ego driven. I had a similar conversation on GaG about men who were upset that women wouldn't give them the time of day even if they asked a woman out... but that's saying essentially because you exist as a man, or in this case a trans person, I have to like you simply because you exist and you propositioned me. Attraction does not work like that. Everyone has standards that have nothing to do with orientation, and that do, and when those aren't meant, the attraction won't be there no matter how nice, or how many times a person asks, etc.

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  • Who gives a fuck? If they want to be fucking freaks and pretend to be something they aren't, then they can deal with people thinking of them as exactly what they are, freaks.

    By the way, calling a freak a freak is not a damn phobia. That's not what a phobia means. The modern left needs to stop making up words.

  • this is an interesting discussion, and i must admire the size of your (figurative) balls for bringing this up on a site like gag.

    i have two very different theories on this:

    1) while i have no issues with trans people (and would totally date one, if s/he had the qualities i look for in my partners), i'm sure that some people out there don't share that sentiment. as long as you still treat those individuals with the same respect and dignity that you would anyone else, i don't see why it's an issue (in my mind, it's no different than a gay guy saying 'i don't like girls' or vice versa).

    2) that said, i do understand why trans men and women might be nervous about disclosing their biological sexes to prospective partners, for fear of reactions like in your ava/jon scenario. ava's behaviour in the above sketch makes it clear that she *is* transphobic. and because this involves one person rejecting another solely because s/he is trans, that is transphobia.

    definitely something to think about. thanks for the interesting take!

    • Thanks for your response and the two sides. I think though that the reasoning number 1 is what is the biggest contradiction of reason 2. If you are trans and say you want to be accepted for who you are and who you chose to love/sleep with, then why is it, if someone who is straight wants the same, to be respected for their sexual preference and who they are and what they want, they are the ones labeled transphobic. I've used the example that you've used several times in responses, which is, if I told a gay man he "should" want to sleep with me because he's a man, and should be straight, that would be seen as totally offensive by the gay community and many others. Our preferences/our orientations/whatever you call them, don't simply change on a dime.

    • If they did, then all that specifically the gay community has fought to say, which is they are born that way, would be null and void. So then when it comes to someone straight who wants, in this case, strictly a biological man, that equates somehow to transphobia? That doesn't add up for me. I'm not afraid of trans people, I don't actively go out at hate or discriminate against them, I have trans friends, so the only thing that they are upset about quite literally is that in the case of Ava or myself, that I don't want to sleep with them because they are not biologically male. That's ego talking. Just because you exist and you want me and I don't want you, then I must hate what you are... I call BS on that. That sounds rapey too. You have to want me and you should want to sleep with me because I exist. No, you like what you like, and if someone doesn't get that, then they aren't respecting you and you shouldn't be in a relationship with them anyway.

  • Yeah, pretty much totally agree with this. I have one acquaintance who is trans, but F to M, so not really an issue for me as it relates to this specific angle, but "he" is good people, I like him, treat him as a guy like he wants to be, etc. I'm Mr. "Whatever, Do You", as long you aren't stepping on anyone else's toes.

    I'm sure dating is a frustrating thing for trans people. But you just can't resort to what essentially amounts as trickery. You KNEW going in that a lot of people would not be cool with dating someone not of their natural biological sex. Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant, people have the right to feel how they feel about that. For me, whether you think it's correct or not, the idea of hooking up with someone, as a straight guy, and thinking you're doing one thing, and then "Surprise! I have/had a dick!"... I would fucking LOSE IT. I will always categorize by DNA when it comes to dating, and I have a strict and unwavering "XX" policy. Sorry I'm not sorry. But I can't help that I completely lose wood at the idea of hooking up with someone with any male characteristics, past or present. Is what it is. I don't really have an answer for the trans community as to how to deal with this, but everyone else has as much right to rule you out as a partner as much as you have the right to be trans and cultivate whatever look you choose. And I like the married guy analogy, it IS the same concept: presenting yourself as one thing and actually being another. You can't be loud and proud about being trans and then turn around and keep it under wraps when you're trying to hook up, that's deceitful.

    All the power in the world to the trans people, you keep on doing you... but I won't be😅 If it was important to a trans person to date somebody who ALSO was trans, I sure wouldn't put on a dress and makeup to make you think I was a trans woman, and then surprise you with a dick and hetero lifestyle once I felt I had you roped in. Just sayin'...

    • Thanks for your comments. I was literally sent off my moorings when re-telling the GaG post to my friend that she would call me transphobic especially since we both share trans friends, and we've both known each others all male dating habits for going on 2 decades now. The trick is to put it in the reverse as you have done. What if it were you faking that you were trans to sleep with Jon because you knew what his preference was. Everyone would call that deceitful because you would be intentionally deceiving him to try to get what you want sexually. Someone else also mentioned, hey, I like kids, but I don't want to have sex with someone under 18, doesn't make me kid phobic. Crude example, but very true. Just because you don't like someone on a sexual level, doesn't make you a hater of them. Arousal takes many steps which are largely out of our control and if the attraction isn't there for whatever reasons, it's just not going to happen. You can't fake that.

    • The trans friends I do have have never to my knowledge tried to surprise anyone with who they are. They are honest or actively seek out people who are okay with how they identify. It is still a dangerous world out there for them and you just don't know how people will respond to you. And I definitely agree, it IS a very difficult position for them to have to put themselves in with each new potential partner, but it IS what they signed up for. By accepting that is who they are and what they want, they must accept to what comes with that. Many do find it nearly impossible to date and fall into depression for those reasons, but that is not the fault of the world if people just aren't sexually attracted to them as they present themselves or in this case, try to trick others into believing.

  • Your lack of desire to date transgender people could very much be rooted in transphobia - depending on your reasons for not dating them. But it could also very much just be a preference, such as you not being attracted to vaginas/penises (dependant of what they have between their legs), or just in general not attracted to the transgender person in question.
    As long as this preference (or "preference") isn't rooted in hatred and disgust for transgender people in general, there is no reason to call it transphobia.

    • Attraction along with consent has to be mutual in order for things to proceed on a sexual level. Just because someone says to me, you "should" be sexually attracted to me, doesn't make that so. If for whatever reason you do not desire someone in either of those realms, you have the right to say no. Being labeled transphobic because you are not ultimately attracted to a person on a physical/sexual level, is rather offensive to me, because it says to me, I have no right to my own body, mind, or to make decisions about my own sexual orientation... but it does say that the trans person does and their rights supersede my own. Take the word trans and substitute it with gay man, lesbian woman, bisexual person, etc. and the same is still true. No one is calling the gay man hetero-phobic for not wanting to sleep with a woman because we understand, or at least most do, that you are born liking what you like and that cannot just be changed because someone says it should.

    • Are you venting or lecturing me?

    • Neither actually. It's really hard to tell sometimes what things mean via text.

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  • Very true

  • If I was with a guy and then I discovered he's biologically a girl I'd leave right away. Its my preference and that's what I think, period. I wouldn't call myself transphobic for the mere fact that I don't support it. You dont have to support everything that comes out that is supported by others. I dont disrespect anyone even if I dont agree with what they think and that's why I dont consider myself as a transphobic.

  • Im totally fine with being called transphobic, I couldn't care less. Im attracted to men, not women that like to think they are men. No matter how much surgery they have or hormone treatments they get. their chromosomes will still be xy. You can't father children, you can't perform as a man and the only reason they even look like a man with clothing on is a result of medical procedures and hormone treatments that covers up what they truly are.

    I have no problem with being friends and i respect their right as adults to choose to lead their life how they want. Im fine with that, but once you start expecting me to alter my beliefs and needs to accommodate your perceptions then you are some kind of messed up.

    If that makes me transphobic, then im all good with that cuz there is no amount of thought policing or attacking that will get me to change my beliefs.

    • It really is to that point. To be told that because God forbid, you don't like someone in a physical way, that you are phobic is beyond insane, and like you, even talking about a hypothetical with a friend, I wouldn't stand for it. I'm not offended if someone gay doesn't want to sleep with me... because they're gay! I know from the outset, that they don't want me and that has nothing to do with me or some phobia because I'm straight. My reaction is not then to accuse them of hatred of me. This is right about where you say, f--- it, and f--- off if this is going to be the case with accepting a trans person in that way.

    • I'm totally on board with everything you said, but I'm gna come rain on yr parade and point out that male = XY and female = XX.

    • @redeyemindtricks yup i know... just wasn't paying attention as i wrote.

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  • Political correctness should stay in politics.

  • No, it just means you have your preferences, like any other person.

  • Who is pushing this narrative that being a person is being transphobic if they don't want to date trans people? Why? Not everyone is pansexual. It's just a matter of preference and nothing can be changed. End of story.

  • I'm so tired of all the leftard "phobic" bullfuckery.

    • Lmao

  • If you dig down to the bottom of the issue, you will find that this is all about control. Political Correctness is a totalitarian ideology, which seeks to control every aspect of our beings. It starts from controlling expression (by policing what can and cannot be said) but the true target is to control and police what are acceptable thoughts and concepts. It is literally Orwellian.

    It is therefore no surprise that this ideology also wants to control who we should date and sleep with.

    When this is achieved, and you accept the idea that your dates have to be approved (if not outright chosen) by the PC thought-police, then you have pretty much given up all freedom and are fully indoctrinated.

  • Truth is, neither the LGBT movement, nor feminism, nor the Black Panthers and BLM, actually fight for equality or justice. Western societies are pretty acceptance-oriented and are as diverse as they can be. What these movements want is control of morality. They want to control what's acceptable and what is unacceptable, and shame you, and even attack you, for not agreeing. They dont want freedom of expression or free speech, they want to control the place enough that they can do whatever they want and blame others for sexism/racism/LGBTphobia for pure convenience. That's why they keep creating BS. Every now and then they make something up to justify themselves. What many dont realize is that these people usually subscribe to post-truth. Truth is objective. It exists, regardless of your perception. There is no 'relative truth', there is only truth and individual perception of truth. Then, we have the adepts of post-truth, where facts literally matter less than how you perceive them. It is mass-scale manipulation 101. Quite a lot of LGBT activists literally reject biological definition of gender and sex in favor of social comfort for themselves, to the detriment of the rest of society. These people don't care about the truth. They want to impose their way in any way possible, and honestly? The western world is inches away from internal collapse. Yuri here can help you understand the point:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4_psN_6ydE
  • The bottom line is... date who you want. I am not going to date someone that I am not attracted to just to be politically correct. That is stupid. I also dont have to explain to anyone why I dont date a person.

  • I agree. I prefer to be someone who is a man as well. Transgender people should be up front and honest about themselves.

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