What should be the punishment for paternity fraud?

[Anonymous]

The kind where a woman tricks a man into raising a child that's not his, and he only finds out the truth some 20 years later. Should this not be a crime legally? Certainly if the man finds out he's not the father the moment the baby is born then it's not a big deal, he finds out he was cheated on, leaves her and moves on with his life while he's still young. But when he only finds out the truth 20 years later, these women are essentially robbing a man from his biological right of parenthood. This wasn't his choice to be a step father, or have a vasectomy, this was the result of a crime perpetrated by one woman for decades. So what should be the punishment?

[Tractorbeam]

Don't expect the girls to be too harsh with their sentence. Scientists and doctors in the western world are estimating that 10% of children don't know their true father, because their mother was unfaithful and concealed it.

* Firstly, she should repay all expenses that hubby incurred while raising the child. She should be able to claim child support from the biological father for all those years, if she can still find him.
* If, by the time hubby finds out, it's too late for him to have children of his own, he should be compensated. How much would the average woman think is fair compensation, if her children were taken away and never seen again?
* He should also be compensated for the loss of all the years involved, just as you would compensate someone who's been wrongfully imprisoned. If she couldn't pay, she should be made to do the same time time in prison.

[parkway]

If a man screwed the woman without protection and buys the goods she is selling then it is on him. In history women have been screwing the village idiot and then finding the dumb nice guy to pay and play the new role of the village idiot. Get over it and stop being an idiot.

If he was in a childs life for 20 years how does he loose. Some kid only knows him as the father.

[kheserthorpe]

because the kid does find out, because his lack of paternity is used in determining custody, but not suppport, and because he likely would have had his own children had he not been the victim of fraud.

[MaskedSanity]

Paternity fraud is abhorrent to me. It is extremely despicable and just plain shitty.

Many will argue that the father has formed an emotional bond with the child, so no harm done. Bullshit. Although without said fraud the man may have never been a father, you can't use a happy ending to justify an originally selfish and often malicious deed.

Compensation and jail time would be suitable.

Should the man that was branded the father miss a few child support payments, the woman can take him to court and get him thrown in jail. The level of fucked up is unreal and god knows some cunts have actually pulled that shit.

I personally think paternity tests should be MANDATORY at birth before anyone signs any birth certificates.

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

So throw the kids mom in jail while the father abandons it? Don't see that as fair :/ It's a very difficult situation.

[MaskedSanity]

@GirlScoutsRevenge I don't see it to be particularly fair to scam a person for years either. The cunt should have thought about that before irreversibly trapping a man for at least 18 years. That's a pretty fucking low, appalling and outrageous thing to do. If you commit fraud - you go to jail. Why should paternity fraud be treated any different? Paternity fraud is an intentional crime. It's not like she was fucking the same guy for years, then oops the baby isn't his and she never knew. She KNOWS. She knows that either he's not the father or she fucked multiple men in a short time frame and can't figure out who the dad is. If scenario falls in the latter, she has a responsibility to clear that shit up through paternity tests. If she refuses to do that - that's pretty much an admission to wanting to commit paternity fraud, because she probably prefers one potential father over the other for financial reasons.

[MaskedSanity]

Also, humans tend to BOND with those they raise. I highly doubt after 5, 10, 15, 20 years of raising someone a guy is gonna just get up and leave without hesitation. But if he does - that's his right. A man should not be forced into raising somebody else's child. If he knew the child isn't his and consciously chose to stick around, that's a whole other story. But TRICKING a guy to get his money to support HER fuck up is beyond disgusting. If there were actual punishments in place for it, there would be a lot less callous cunts trying to pull these types of stunts.

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

Yeah I get that its shit but I don't think a child should suffer like that, and I highly doubt most men would stand by that child.

[MaskedSanity]

@GirlScoutsRevenge So the mother should just get off scot-free? Because oh no, the child will be without parents? The child is not being punished - it's being introduced into the reality of its mother being a selfish whore. If the child's well being was a concern, the mother would not have committed fraud in the first place. Women who do this - do it to get in on a cushy life where all they need to do is look after the kid while the supply of funds keeps rolling in BONUS government support for childcare.

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

I just don't see prison time as an effective punishment. All it does is venge a wrong done person. It doesn't benefit society in any way and certainly not the poor kid who just found out his mom is a liar and a cheat and his dad isn't his dad. In that situation I think the childs welfare is more important than the guys, I'm sure that won't go down well but that's what I believe (Young child here, I'm not talking grown ups). What about compensation to the child? It is also a victim of fraud - he thought that dud was his dad.

[MaskedSanity]

@GirlScoutsRevenge I don't think an unrelated child's needs supersede a man's financial freedom, as shitty as that sounds. He raised the child thinking it's his only to find out he's been played for his money for many years and after the truth comes out, he STILL has to pay because we feel sorry for the kid? That's not right either. It's unfortunate for the kid, but you can't force someone to carry on paying for and supporting a child that was never theirs. The man may choose to do that because he's formed an emotional bond with them and that's fine. But trying to keep the kid's life stable at a stranger's expense is not ok.

[Bluemax]

Agree with you on every point except the bonding issue. If it could be demonstrated that somehow a child were accidentally switched in a hospital (and this has happened), do the parents then have a right to just walk away from that child which they thought was theirs simply because genetically it isn't? As for mandatory testing, I go back and forth on this. My primary concern is the cost. Who do you propose pays for it?

[ButtHoleSandwich]

In some states as long as the man signs the birth certificate he is legally obligated to that child until it's 18 regardless if it's his or not. For us when my daughter was born the papers we signed stated that " you agree that you fathered paternity of this child and turn down the right for a paternity test" so right there if he had any doubt don't sign. It's in big bold letters.

[mutedaisy]

How are you just now realizing that the child isn't yours after 20 years?

[kheserthorpe]

Usually what happens is a few years after the child is born, he discovers she's cheating, and has been, at that point they do paternity testing and discover some kids aren't his. However the court will require him to keep paying child support anyway.

[mutedaisy]

@kheserthorpe in that case, wouldn't it make more sense to sue the state?

[Bethanycats]

LOLOLOL she's right.

[kheserthorpe]

@kheserthorpe generally you can't sue the state. What would make 'sense' would be if the state didn't mandate support for kids that aren't yours, if you could sue the mother back for cost + loss of opportunity to raise a family that's actually yours, and if she perhaps went after the original father for back child support. However legally none of that is possible, and there's virtually no chance of it changing, since women's groups who are well organized would lobby hard against it, saying the current system is in the child's interest (which it is, much like if i could claim my children were bill gates' responsibility so he should support them it would be in their interest). The state also has no interest in changing it, since they don't have to pay for a bunch of kids in poor houses, they can force some guy to support them instead, even though the guy is being ripped off. And there's no political lobby group with any power who sticks up for men. So that's that.

[kheserthorpe]

@bethanycats

[Bethanycats]

? okay...

[OlderAndWiser]

@kheserthorpe That is not the law in Florida, where I routinely handle paternity cases.

[MrChadeo920]

Research this man Carnell Smith
This will open up eyes...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pnYDmmR5cfw

[Illusive_Man]

"Punish her the Islamic way"
Wait wut?
We are going to enact Sharia law and build "god's country" now?
OH JOY!

Anyway.
No.
We are civilized people.
Make a legal case out of it. Tho if it should be a criminal offence depends on if we can prove if she started out with the intention to mislead or.

[Asker]

Yes, there's always the possibility she got pregnant by the semen monster while she was sleeping, so it wasn't her intention.

[Illusive_Man]

I'm not a lawyer but I think to make a blanket statement saying that it's undeniably the women's intent to mislead is probably gonna land me in trouble for defamation so let's let them lawyers duke it out in court eh lol?

[MaskedSanity]

If she fucked the football team and can't figure out who's the dad, picking a favourite and telling him he is - that's malicious intent. It's HER responsibility to do the required tests to set that straight and if she refuses to do that, it should be considered her admission to fraud.

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

You can't legally punish someone for that. Unless you kept tabs on how much money you'd spent on the child and a monetary repayment was demanded.

How are awol fathers being punished when they knock a girl up and do a runner?

Not gonna happen.

[Asker]

We know we can't at the moment, the question is what we should do.

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

Nothing. Get over it.

[Asker]

Rape is just sex. It shouldn't be punished either. Get over it.

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

Hardly comparable is it unless the man he been physically forced to stay and look after the child for twenty years. This is not a common occurrence. It's just a shitty fact of life that happens sometimes. Same as people promising to be faithful. Entering into a marriage saying they will be faithful and then cheating. That's fraud. I understand that it sucks but there really isn't anything to be done. Plus vengeance is petty. Moving on is a better idea.

[Asker]

Hey look, you as a woman dont give a shit anout a crime that only happens to men, and I as a man dont give a shit about a crime that (mostly) happens to women, so let's leave it at that. Unless you expect us to have sympathy for women and rape while you tell victims of paternity fraud to "get over it"?

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

Actually I do give a shit but obviously you're a really shit human being and don't give a fuck about others suffering. What on earth do you expect to be done about it? It is no way comparable to rape whom happens to men AND women, and more importantly the ratio is ridiculously unbalanced for that to be an intelligent comparison.

[dudeman]

They pay child support or run the risk of jail

[Asker]

I happen to think paternity fraud is worse than rape. So do most men. "Oh how dare you trivialize rape it is the most awful crime bla bla bla..." give me a break. I'd rather get fucked up the ass for 5 minutes than get fucked for life by paternity fraud. And yes the ratio is unbalanced, much more men are victims of paternity fraud than women are victims of rape. Plus rapists can get a life sentence while paternity fraud is not even recognized as a crime.

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

Fuck off! Who the fuck do you think you're kidding? Rape is less common than paternity fraud? Your just lying now and have lost all credibility. What a joke.

[Asker]

Paternity fraud was estimated to be between 15 and 30% I believe.

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

Of all cases of children? Come on then, show me where you found that little gem of information. Also, between 15-30% is hardly accurate data now is it? It's a margin of error of 100%

[Asker]

www.canadiancrc.com/.../...tle_secret_14DEC02.aspx

...

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

Thanks for giving me a lengthy subjective article that states this: "15 per cent is reasonable for the Western world, even if there is no hard evidence." No. Hard. Evidence. It sucks the people are lied to, and it's total unacceptable that someone thinks they should pay child support to a kid that isn't theirs, I don't see how that's even legal? ! But you can't really punish someone for it. It's like punishing someone for doing morally wrong things that aren't against the law. You can't. It's a stupid question and I stand by that, I'm not trivializing the actual thing itself.

[Bluemax]

Awol fathers are punished if they are tracked down. They can do jail time (this happened to a friend of mine) even if the mother didn't order any child support.

[ThisDudeHere]

Well to keep things simple and civilized the bitch should just pay back every cent he paid her (erm... I mean the child... yeah... all of that money totally went only to the child and was not used by her... absolutely).

[DodgersGM]

That would be a criminal act and the perpetrator of the fraud should be open to civil litigation as well as face criminal charges, yeah.

[Bluemax]

Money returned plus punitive damages. I might consider jail time.

[1Genesis29]

she owes you anal anytime you want it.

[Dargil]

I voted A because proof of intentional fraud could not be proven and there is probably a statute of limitations on this kind of thing anyway. But now there is DNA typing which will single out one individual in a haystack. so if she was gang banged by the football team and the band, and you were one of them it might just single you out.

[evenlift]

Compensation to the victim and prison.

[Sexualchrist]

I think the woman should have to pay the man back all the money he spent on the child.
If the woman can't pay it she should go to prison for a minimum of 10 years.

[dudeman]

Twenty years of community service or two years in prison mandatory and if they are married or have joint assets she should forfeit her share to the man.

[chrisbigman]

Yes, there should be punishment. She should either be sued or jailed.

[Vander]

She should pay the man all the child support and also get jail time equivalent to the time he spent in the child's life

[jmmmfi]

It should be harsh as fuck. Chicks don't understand it.

[Anonymous]

There should be no punishment. I know it must feel utterly bad, but at this point everybody who cheats a partner should be punished... no, I don't think that's a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Money reparation. No point punishing the child by sending the only remaining parent to jail.

[MaskedSanity]

Because a deceitful cow that uses trickery to get financial support for her fuck ups is perfectly fit to be a parent, amirite?

[Opinion Owner]

@MaskedSanity One can lie and still be a good parent. The world isn't as black and white as you're painting it to be. People are complicated, situations are complicated. I'm not condoning lying about something like this but I doubt sticking a child in foster care is the better deal. No parent is faultless. Some have greater flaws than others.

[MaskedSanity]

Parental fraud is very far from comparing a person to being faultless. Fraud is a crime, not a poor personality trait or inability to keep time. A person who does not possess the moral fibre to realize what they're doing is disgusting is not fit to be a parent, no matter how much you try to sugarcoat the truth. It sucks for the kid, but what you propose is to continue punishing the man after it has been revealed that he's been scammed out of his money. In what universe is that fair?

[Opinion Owner]

@MaskedSanity I didn't propose punishing the man anywhere in my response. I wrote that he should be paid back for whatever he spent. This type of lying is terrible. But I don't see how jail time is going to help the child. Your idea of a fair punishment would hurt both the mother and the child when really, only the former deserves punishment. You assume that the people who do these types of things aren't aware of how immoral it is. I'm not sure that's true for every case, or even for the majority. But I wonder at what factors may cause then to go through with this type of things despite the moral issues. I am not at all excusing their behavior, I just think you're compartmentalizing too generously. Ultimately, I think the man should be paid back. And the child shouldn't have to suffer.

[MaskedSanity]

"You assume that the people who do these types of things aren't aware of how immoral it is." I did not say that at all. People who commit paternity fraud are fully aware of their actions and know what they're doing is wrong. What I meant was that they lack the moral fibre to stop themselves from doing such terrible things in the first place. Criminals are fully aware they are criminals, otherwise they wouldn't try to evade the law by running, changing names, money laundering, forging documents and so on. My stance isn't very favourable towards the child, there's no denying that. I just feel that if the punishment was this harsh, women would think twice before putting their child at such a risk.

[Bluemax]

"No point punishing the child by sending the only remaining parent to jail" If single mother commits murder, should we not send her to jail?