Is it bad that I look down on housewives?

[Anonymous]

I'm a feminist but I don't see any rational reason why a woman should have to sit at home all day cooking, cleaning and changing diapers. I don't care if it's your personal decision. I understand when women are forced to be housewives or when they need to do it out of necessity and circumstance. Like if a girl was not given an education and was married off to an old man when she was 12. Or like when I was a kid I knew this lady who was a housewife because her daughter was disabled and needed to be taken care of 24/7. That's fine, it's matter of circumstance. But when someone lives in a liberal society, they've had all the tools they need and they still chose to be a doormat. I mean, WTF is wrong with you? Also, I strongly believe that if a person, any person male or female, has an education like if you're a qualified doctor, nurse, teacher, etc. that it is your moral DUTY to leave your home and serve your community.

[thetalentedphantom]

Let's start with a disclaimer because people generally don't take criticism well (I'm not implying you don't in particular; It's just a general statement). Let's make note that I am a neutral humanitarian, and I do not support any one political party, movement, or organization. I am completely impartial in my statements and argue for neither side of an issue.

That being said, I think I should point out something in your phrasing. You said:

"I'm a feminist but I don't see any rational reason why a woman **should** have to sit at home all day..." (The word "should" implies a necessity to stay home)

"I don't care if it's your personal decision. I understand when women are forced... out of necessity and circumstance." (This refutes what you just said about not seeing any rational reason why a woman should stay home)

"... liberal society..." ("Liberal" implies not just a progressive attitude, but a respectful one as well)

Google defines feminism as, "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men." This implies you are a liberal as well.

For a liberal in a liberal society, you sure seem to have a strong opinion against personal decisions. You also seem to be generalizing a lot. There are families where the man stays home instead, and there are families where BOTH parents work.

Being that your age is 18-24, I will assume you are not yet a parent. Some parents would prefer to stay home or alternate with the other parent so that they can give support and be there for their children. Cooking and cleaning are activities that need to be done, and if the woman chooses to do it, it's her choice, even if she may be wasting her talents. That goes for men as well. Similarly, if the man or woman has a job they want to do and feel obligated to do, they will go out and do it.

I will throw a stat at you now: A study by the Pew Research Center shows that 55% of women and 65% of men believe it's better when at least one parent (not gender specific) stay home to focus on the family.

Of course, you DO bring up a good point. Women should not HAVE to stay home if they can go out and work. They can if they want to. I think your view of the issue is oversimplified with generalities. I personally believe that all people should have a choice as long as they can support themselves and their families. If a person hates their job or feels morally obligated to take care of family/home issues, why shouldn't they?

[thetalentedphantom]

I want you to read my argument and reread yours. For your own benefit, you should try to improve your argument and make it more compelling while not attacking people with your words. If you want people to listen to what you're saying, you shouldn't come off as extremely biased and just bash others with general statements. You still have the right to your own beliefs and you can look down and hate as much as you want, but it's not going to get you very far. THIS is the issue with the new feminism. I believe in equal rights for all (as I stated earlier I'm a neutral humanitarian), but you don't make your points very effectively. Once again, it seems more like general statements and bias than actual facts, statistics, and truth. Your argument doesn't convince others to see as you do. It only appeals to other feminists and people who already share the same beliefs as you. Please think about what I said. Have a nice day miss. :) -Riley

[thetalentedphantom]

Also read this study. www.pewresearch.org/.../

I think you need to do more research on your own position.

[slimstiffy]

Well, believe it or not a lot of women are very happy to stay home, cook and take care of the kids. Thats not being a doormat. And not just going out and working is contibuting to society. Raising good children with good values and strong character is actually as much of a contribution, if not more. A child needs a mother and a father to have a well developed personality. A family is the basic unit of a society and the mother plays an important part in it. Men, by nature are a bit bigger and stronger than women. Thats why traditionally, they were the ones working in many cultures. To equalize it , women provided the balance needed, at home. Today, many times thats just not possibke for financial or other reasons. By no means am i saying that its impossible to have a family with both parents working. Im am from one. But they were both working most of the time i was a kid and in hindsight i would have liked it if maybe i vould have more time with my mom. But i understand that its necessary and they did the best for us. That being said, if it is possible, there is nothing wrong with the wife being a housekeeper.

[lumos]

Yes it is because as a feminist, you should recognize that the CHOICE is a focal point within feminism and you shouldn't look down on women who willingly make that kind of choice.
If she's forced to do it and doesn't want to be a housewife, then clearly it's bad. But if she makes that choice because she genuinely believes that that's what she wants to do and loves to do, then you have no right to judge her or look down on her. She doesn't choose to be a doormat. You say it's the moral duty of doctors and teachers to serve their community, how is that being less of a doormat, using your own logic? They would be a doormat to society, whereas she's a doormat to her kids/husband/wife or whatever. But I disagree with that because again, it's her choice. Feminism gives people the option to choose. So if a woman decides to stay at home, that was her choice that she had the RIGHT to make. You're awfully judgmental for looking down on those who prioritize family/home life over a career. I could personally never be a housewife, but I don't look down on those who want to.

[Asker]

I'm not arguing or anything, I'm just trying to find out more about this "choice". Isn't it a double standard and pretty un-feminist than that men are not given this choice to stay home.

[HGStebbins]

We are given this choice. There are stay-at-home dads. This is a growing thing in our culture. If a woman is told that she has to stay home and take care of the house and family, that is not right. However, if she makes the choice that she wants to be a stay-at-home mother, and that's what she wants to be, that is still feminism at work.

[Asker]

@HGStebbins But if a family is poor and the father stays home all day, society says he's lazy, he doesn't care or attempt to provide for his family.

[HGStebbins]

It is still his choice to make. As it would be her choice to make. Often times our options are limited by our economic positions. However, I think society would judge an educated person the same way in this situation. If an educated adult, male or female, of limited economic means decided that they wanted to be a stay-at-home parent, I think society would call them lazy or say they don't care for or attempt to provide for their family. That would be equality. It would be unfair to both, but it would be equality.

[lumos]

Of course it's un-feminist that stay-at-home dads are looked down upon in society. That's a result of a patriarchal notion that women make better parents and that men should focus on bringing in the money, instead of directly caring for the children (providing for them with money is seen as indirect parenting).

[orphan]

lumos' first pregnancy is gonna be quadruplets.

[lumos]

@orphan ok? What does that have to do with anything? Also, I'll never have any kids.

[orphan]

it means by chance you're gonna be stuck at home taking care of all your kids you didn't intend to conceive it's a joke lumos.. lighten up.

[kittykatg]

I want to be a stay at home mom until my kids can go to preschool or at least until they are 6 months old, if our finances allow it. Reason being is that I feel like I'll be able to provide certain things that I don't trust others to be able to.
Also I know quite a few stay at home wives and they have their own lives. They don't just stay at home being a "slave". One just started following her childhood dream of being a competitive horse rider with dressage. Another trains for marathons and gets to participate in her childrens schools to the level that she wants. They have their own stuff going on and do what they can around the house. They're also super grateful that their husbands work so hard and gave them the opportunities that they now have. They all started off with careers of their own, paving their own way, but it wasn't their passion. Now they're able to do what makes them happy and their husbands are happy for them

[justbanANNAz]

it is, yes. u are free to have your views, but it is never right to validated your own by looking down on others.

u live ur life, and let others live theirs.

[Curlicious]

Some women like being a housewife! Some men do too. Therefore, it is bad to look down on them, because you're judging their preferences. That's like them judging you for wanting not to be a housewife - it wouldn't be fair at all.

[AustinMan]

Where did housewife and doormat become synonymous? You seem to be being high handed about this. I'm just trying to understand.

[lexythelou22]

Who says that house wives are treated like doormats? I haven't seen this outside of abusive relationships. If my husband has a well paying job and someone needs to be home with MY babies, I'll volunteer to stay home with them. I don't understand your need to hate on this just because it's something women used to be expected to do. I'm also a feminist, but I'm a feminist because I believe in EQUALITY, not in the idea that women have to start forcing themselves to fit the previously known "masculine" roles. A man can be what he wants to be, just as a woman can be what she wants to be. If I want to be a housewife, I'll be a housewife.

[PT1911]

Well said

[lexythelou22]

@PT1911 Thank you

[Kastinis]

"Moral duty to serve"what is this? People don't have duties to serve to anything - neither to society nor to family, it's just a preference of one's choices, this is what a liberal worlds is- an acceptance of different choices, beliefs.

[Jxpxtxr]

I agree with you to an extend and I've read some comments of guys here claiming that housewife is a "full time job" but there's actually plenty of women and men out there who proove that you can work in an actual job full time and be a housewife/-man when you come home, so that argument is kinda pointless.
However I also think nobody should be looked down on simply for their personal choices.

[thetalentedphantom]

Same here. If you'd be interested, read my argument above.

[AIAthefirst]

Ah feminist; those who cannot understand. house wives are better than working mums, my mum was a working mum and my dad worked as well so I had some random nannies look after me and some hit me and my brothers, no one is going to support you, working mothers are not better, they have less time and don't stay around often, stay home mum's are the best and they don't even need to do it that long, and depending on the job they don't even need to leave home (thank you computer age) so your argument is out of spite. have a nice life 😘

[OlderAndWiser]

1. Your opinion absolutely ignores the responsibility that parents have to their children. Being raised by a procession of people in a day care is not an adequate substitute for being raised by your parents.

2. Being a housewife does not mean being a doormat. That may be the way that you see it but that doesn't mean that is the way everyone lives it.

3. Since you brought up moral duty. . . your highest duty is to God and your next highest duty is to your family. If you don't see it that way, you should not have a family.

[sarthak809]

You are a mature guy, don't expect these children to understand the virtue of a housewife! They want to work and earn and spend, whereas their children will grow up disconnected, confused, emotionally vulnerable.

[OlderAndWiser]

@sarthak809 True, but maybe if they keep hearing the message over and over. . .

[Curmudgeon]

Yes, because if they are raising multiple children, that's a full time job in itself. Moreover, certain jobs you mention like nurse and teacher ARE and always have been known as "mommy track" occupations.

Now I'm not saying YOU have to be a mom, such a role isn't for every lady. However, it is a role for a lot of them.

And in fact, once the kids are grown up enough, what does the mommy do? She goes back to work.

[popsickle]

Being a good housewife deserves respect, it is hard work unless a person doesn't do much... you basically make your house into a home. The feminist thinking should be a woman has a choice to do career, housewife, or both. It's interesting, because it seems like the people who don't value a housewife's contribution usually either have never taken care of a home on their own before or maybe come from a more affluent family where a housewife may potentially not do much.

[mik3y81]

Are you of the opinion that neither parent should take care of their own child, and they should instead hire a nanny or daycare service? I agree insofar as a woman is not required to be the one to take care of the kid and the house. But if the mother (or the father) wants to stay home and raise the child, it should be their choice.

Your duty to the community comes after your duty to your family.

[Poppykate]

I do think that if you are a fully trained doctor/ nurse/ baker/ chef etc it can be a waste if a woman chooses to stay at home to take care of children for several years. The ideal situation would be to work part-time or at least casual to keep her skills and knowledge fresh. (As if she left the workforce for 5+ years, she would be required to go back and do some heavy retraining or education)

[ElissaDido]

Yes it's bad.

[Josht11]

Women tend to want to focus more on family and aren't interested in spending most of their life working it's why more women work part time than men as they don't tend to want to work as much as men it's just biology really.

[Asker]

How is it biology lol

[Josht11]

Brain functions differently so they tend to want different stuff like I said, I'm sure there's some environmental factors as well but they are also biologically different.

[Asker]

I've been studying psychology for the past 3 years and I have never come across any evidence proving that womens brains function that way.

[Josht11]

maybe not with the brain but men and women are naturally different and I don't think it's a coincidence women tend to want to work less and focus on a family more.

[Asker]

OMG lol. No. This is scientific sexism.

[Josht11]

I don't get what your trying to say, science is sexist?

[Josht11]

or are you saying I am?

[Asker]

What you're saying is an actual form of sexism called scientific sexism and it's dangerous.

[aliceinwonderland69]

Women have different brain structure, neuro chemicals and hormones. Facts can't be sexist.

[jacquesvol]

@Josht11 Biology? Really? Or conditioning by education and society?

[Asker]

Everyone's brain is structured the same lol.

[FakeName123]

"I've been studying psychology for the past 3 years and I have never come across any evidence proving that womens brains function that way." Then you clearly haven't heard of biological psychology. Additionally you probably also haven't picked up on neuroscience figuring more than a decade again that the brains of both genders work very different (i. e. mens brain works from front to back and vice versa)

[jacquesvol]

@FakeName123 Then you clearly haven't heard of societal influences and clichés in education.

[Josht11]

@jacquesvol The environment does play a key part in what either boys and girls want to do but these have a basis in the fact that we are different it's not just that girls feel like they can't be scientists in general they don't want to which is why more women are in different fields and others like construction are mainly men.

[thetalentedphantom]

Has anybody considered hormonal differences? I'm a scientist by nature so I'm just genuinely interested in the scientific aspect of this conversation.

[thetalentedphantom]

www.pewresearch.org/.../

To point out all the generalities in the author's argument. ^

[jacquesvol]

@thetalentedphantom "About 10% of highly educated moms are staying at home" means About 90% of highly educated moms are NOT staying at home.

[FakeName123]

@jacquesvol "Then you clearly haven't heard of societal influences and clichés in education." My bad, I forgot that hormones, brain-shape and size, amount of grey matter, the way the brain operates information is all caused by social influences and clichés in education.

[jacquesvol]

@FakeName123 Social influences and clichés in education tend to influence behavior more than hormones etc (or we'd all be effing , even raping on every street corner.)

[thetalentedphantom]

@jacquesvol Sorry I wasn't specific enough. I meant the original question's author. That was my point. Statistics show otherwise and most of the arguments going around here are generalities and statements that aren't universally true.

[FakeName123]

@jacquesvol Yet people still get hungry, thirsty, aroused, feel fear, feel panic, etc. None of these would be necessary when we were not biologically influenced.

[jacquesvol]

@FakeName123 people still get hungry, thirsty, aroused, feel fear, feel panic, etc, yes but society and education learn us how to live and cope with those feelings.

[chintita]

being a mother doesn't qualify as being a doormat :/ my mom has a masters degree yet she still chose to raise her kids and take care of the environment we grew up in until we were old enough. thats when she pursued her career as well as having raised strong kids. if you dont want to be a 'housewife' then that's cool but don't bash something that is natural and respectable.

[Asker]

Are you saying that you turned out better than people who had working moms?

[chintita]

yeah, i am. she made us all sit at the dining room table and complete math books during the summer, if she wasn't around that often when we were at such tender ages then i'm sure my siblings and I would've fell into the underachieving cycle of so many kids in my country. to be a good parent, you have to be present.

[Asker]

Looks like all that your mom gave you was a superiority complex and a massive ego.

[chintita]

well, being a teacher i'm not gonna ignore the obvious difference between kids who have parents that help them and kids who have absent parents. if either of us have a superiority complex, it'd be you who's self admittedly looks down on housewives.

[Asker]

Just because someone works doesn't make them an absent parent lol.

[chintita]

it does, more often than not..

[Asker]

Obama's mom worked and he became the president. Your mom stayed home and you become a (very judgmental, narcissistic) teacher.

[chintita]

listen, u can throw insults and give irrelevant anecdotes all u want but it doesn't help ur argument. a kid is better off going to a warm household with a parent home than to a nanny. i plan to work as a mom too but not full time if it isn't needed. reread ur own question, why would u ask it if u want everyone to agree with u? bottomline: it is bad that you look down on housewives

[orphan]

sounds like she watched some youtube video that inspired her to lure y'all out for a debate.

[chintita]

@orphan and then scoured the internet for a successful person who happened to be raised by a working mother :/

[orphan]

where's milo yiannopoulos when ya need him

[archiz]

lol asker, she s making good points and you are being bitter why? who the fuck cares what others do. you are not better than anyone get over yourself it is ridiculous. being a teacher isn t smthng not to be respected for like the fuck woman? I thought you were a feminist. and yes when you have a job you are going to lack in some places reason why there should be compromises and priorities in life. now stop trolling, it is getting ridiculous I swear.

[thetalentedphantom]

@archiz @chintita I made a very structured argument that you can feel free to read above. However, now I'm scrolling down and reading the author's statements and interactions with other, and I'm beginning to wonder if this is some sort of satire. Maybe it's trolling? Maybe it's just some idiot college student who thinks she knows everything about the world. I think this girl needs to go outside and away from the computer and see things. Jeez I'm 17 and I think I've done more with my life than some college student. Hence the fact I use GaG around once every one or two months.

[AleDeEurope]

You're a feminist, you would never understand.

[Melcart23]

👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[Dez22]

I dont see how you're a feminist 😂

[MrAtticusLebowski]

Yeah, it's kinda bad. I mean, being able to have your wife stay at home is kinda a luxury that most can't afford. As a little kid I would see my mom for 2-3 hours a day during the week. She was always working. I mean there's an age when it's nice to have someone at home for your kids. Probably around 6th grade kids don't need a parent at home.

If no children are involved... yeah it's kinda odd. But the high-cost of childcare is usually the cause.

[findingdreamland-1]

It is always bad to look down on people. Especially because of their occupation.

[Dargil]

I don't need to read the text. It is very bad, simple as that and the reasons are self-evident. A good home-maker is a mother, sexual therapist, social and recreation director, gardener, part time grounds keeper, home economist academic tutor and shopper. She is Captain of the household, while her husband is a regular visitor (from work) and her kids are 18 year borders (until they go off to college). A home-maker who looks at it as her profession is the best role all but a few women can ever play. Feminism is a cancer that is dismantling society.

[sarthak809]

Exactly my thoughts! Now I don't have to type a separate reply, this one is perfect! READ THE ABOVE TEXT CAREFULLY, YOU FEMINIST IDIOT! I am sure your children (if you ever have children) will be ashamed of calling you mother! A working mother can never ever come close to the child-raising standards of a housewife. Ok maybe if she works part time (3-4 hours tops) and cares for family and children at home, that's somehow workable.

[carlitoswayy]

just by reading the title of your question, i don't want to be arround you, i don't want to be your friend.

I hope someday you will understand that what you just wrote here, its nonsense.

looking down to a housewive? wtf...