Should men be allowed to vote on abortion laws and issues?

[Anonymous]

Just asking since the biggest complaint about men weighing in on the issue is 'it's not up to you to decide what a woman can do to her body.' So if a man isn't allowed to tell a woman if she can or can't have an abortion, should they even be allowed to vote on abortion laws?

Also, this is hypothetical.

[IvyOp]

Depends on the situation. As far as I'm concerned, if the baby was conceived through a mutual act, then that baby belongs to BOTH people and BOTH people have the right to decide its' fate. When I say "mutual act" -- I'm talking about sex itself. Even if one or both parties used a form of birth control, if they are having willing sex, they are willingly taking on the potential repercussions of their behavior. Don't want to get pregnant? Either don't have sex or get permanently sterilized. Otherwise, you are still 'at risk' for pregnancy, and when you have sex, you take that risk and accept potential responsibility. Yes, I believe that -- if you're willing to have sex without 100% effective method of birth control, you are willing to get pregnant and share that responsibility with the other person. If, as a woman, you don't want that person to have involvement in your future don't have sex with him. I find it terribly ridiculous that women can go to a man who got her pregnant and insist on child support, etc... forcing him to be involved, but then also insist on having the exclusive right ti say what happens to that child before it is born. No... I'm not okay with that. Both people contributed, both people get to decide. Can't agree? Too bad... you accepted this would happen when you chose to engage in sexual activities, you deal with the consequences. Keep in mind that if you can't or don't want that child, there are hundreds and hundreds of couple who desperately want children who cannot have them. As far as I'm concerned, if a couple can't decide what to do, they should be given a time limit to come to a decision, otherwise, any child would then be free to be adopted.

People say the 'system' is overloaded with kids waiting to be adopted... and that's not entirely true. I am a foster parent, and we want to adopt, but most of those kids we've had are not available for adoption because they have selfish family members who won't "allow" it to happen and prefer that the government foot the bill to raise their kids. Years and years we've dealt with it, so I know. Quite often, these kids aren't wanted at all by their birth parents, but they are stuck in a system because the law favors birth mothers and women. Several of our kids would be in fantastic, loving homes if the men in their lives had more say. (Note, here I'm talking about mutual consent... which are the vast majority of pregnancies.)

[Relentless_Hippie]

100% agree. Some of these women on here are absolutely disgusting.

[bedroomdweller]

Well said

[RaeSheBae]

I believe that women should have the right to choose if they want to keep the baby or not in situations like rape etc. If a woman gets pregnant because her and her partner were not careful enough both have the right to decide if they want the baby or not. There are also situations where the family cannot afford a baby and they might think that it's for the best if the woman aborts. I think that men can comment and have opinions but voting not at all because men don't get affected like a woman gets affected during pregnancy and it's a woman who will give birth at the end of the day and there are men who abandon their women ( just like some mums leave their kids behind)

[kaylaS91]

Yes.
True that it is the woman's body but she wouldn't have to deal with pregnancy and/or having an abortion if it weren't for her having sex with the guy. Children aren't delivered by storks. They're conceived via a the fertilization of an egg by sperm. If a guy is required to get a woman pregnant, he should also have the same right as her in respect to what comes of this unborn child.

[jacquesvol]

That sperm is an unconditional gift to the girl (unless they DECIDE together to have a baby). Once a manhas given it, it's no longer under his control, like any gift. No say thus.

[kaylaS91]

@jacquesvol True if it were a literal gift. I'd say that the similarity between an actual potential future child and a gift wouldn't extend all that far. Unless you're saying that men should also have zero say in the child's future, since he was nothing more than someone there to 'deliver his sperm'?

[jacquesvol]

If a child is born and he denies paternity he has no say in education. ( But he still owes child support. ) But as long as no child is born he has no say

[kaylaS91]

@jacquesvol hm. Interesting. Even though half of the child's DNA is from the father and the father was fully aware that sticking his dick in this woman could result in a child, you conclude that it's only fair that the father has zero say simply because he denies paternity (which can be proven with genetic testing so sounds like he simply regrets sticking his dick in that woman and doesn't want to face the consequences of his actions).

[Maypai]

Yes, they should. The baby was not conceived by only he woman and the baby is NOT her body. I don't give a damn what feminists say. Once your baby starts forming inside of you, it may be INSIDE of your body, but it isn't your body.

[Asker]

You do realize that it's just feminists that think that, right?

[Asker]

not just*

[Maypai]

It doesn't matter who thinks that. It isn't their body.

[Asker]

It actually is lol

[Maypai]

Actually, it isn't. All of your body parts share the same genetic code, your child doesn't share the same genetic code with you which means it isn't apart of your body. You two also don't share the same blood type which in a lot of cases cause the pregnancy to end in a miscarriage. Also, when some women conceive their body fights off the embryos because their foreign bodies, the same way they would fight off bacteria.

[levantine99]

spot on.

[jacquesvol]

@maypai And their mind can fight it off too because they're foreign bodies, the same way they would fight off an intruder in their body. Forcing a girl to carry out an unwanted pregnancy and to go through labor and childbirth is worse than rape.

[RegularTK421]

@Maypai Nicely said.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yes because it impacts them. This idea that its "her body" is narcasistic. The fact is its not her body its their baby ergo he is as much involved in this as she is. She chose this as much as he did whether or not that was intentional is irrelevent. Further more he as a human beign should have a say because as it should go without saying, he was at one point in time a fetus and by extention what a woman does to a fetus his mother could have done to him. Also the fact that many abortion clinics receive money from the government which itself is collected by the populace which does affect men (and since men generally earn more they also pay more in taxes) so it also effects them in this way. But by this reasoning we would actually have to ban women from most voting in general wich I am sure women would be adamantly against. The fact is wars are fought almost entirely by men so that means no woman has the right to weigh in on whether or not a war is justifiable or should be allowed to vote for any one who may or may not put us into a war as it doesn't affect them. They also would not have the right to vote for laws that have any impact on a fathers parental responsibility like child support because its his money not hers. Women would also not really be allowed to weigh in on the draft as by law men have to sign up for it in order to get the right to vote, to drive a car and to take out loans both on state and federal level which women do not have to do so thus the current talks of a female draft would be something they would not be allowed to vote on since men are forced into it automatically etc. etc. etc. Basically its a really crappy argument made by women who don't want to actually confront the argument against abortion (or child support) itself because they can't argue against it. Its a dismissal not an argument, a way to avoid the argument by saying who and who cannot participate i. e. any one who doesn't agree with them shouldn't have a say.

[OlderAndWiser]

"it's not up to you to decide what a woman can do to her body."

I learned, long ago, that if you let the other person define the issue, they will win the debate, so. . . don't you mean "It shouldn't be up to a man to decide what his sexual partner does to their unborn child, including ending its life?"

Having restated the issue more clearly, I very strongly disagree!

[UnknownReflection]

The ideology does not go limited to "Personal choice" only.
However, I am a man, i wanna have a voice, and i wanna support women for abortion rights and help them to have this right to choose independently.

[jacquesvol]

Me too.

[flypaper]

thankyou.

[bobbyxx]

pass the sick bucket please, the feminist appeasers are out in force.

[flypaper]

@bobbyxx so wait when some supports your body autonomy that even a corpse gets but yours is in jeopardy your supposed to ignore it? this shouldn't even be a vote unless your open to me making health decisions for you. Once the fetus can live on it's own and not off her body then yes he should have equal say.

[bobbyxx]

@flypaper Who are you to say, dictator. Sexist as fuck.

[flypaper]

@bobbyxx Name calling? Nice. So your okay with me making health care decisions for you? or do you not believe you should have equal say for a living breathing baby? How is any of this sexist? Can you give birth or carry a baby? Are you fighting for your right to? Science is making strides every day maybe you could be the first guy to have a baby? Your talking about equality that would be complete equlaity.

[jacquesvol]

@bobbyxx sexist dictators are the men imposing their religious anti abortion ideas on women. What's next? Obligatory baptism?

[pnl86]

If it's an issue that affects the population, the economy, a man's status as a parent, liability for child support, or even the rights of his daughter or other citizens of the country more generally, then yes.

Voting is not exclusively limited to male citizens when it comes to:

1. War
2. Child support liability
3. Parental rights
4. How parenthood is defined
5. Whether health insurance companies should also pay for the recreational use of medications only men would benefit from (e. g. Cialis, Viagra), just like men have to pay for the purely recreational use of medications only women would benefit from (i. e. Birth control).
6. Laws affecting persons accused of rape and rape trial generally.

It's a democracy, not special snowflake land. Everyone has a say on everything. If you don't like it, move to the country you're thinking about... some place more progressive like Canada, or Saudi Arabia.

Women get to vote on issues that affect men. Stop whining when you realize that it's a two way street.

[Emojis201]

Honesty men shouldn't even be able to comment on this take... I mean they aren't even female, they have no idea how it feels like to have a baby... I'm not judging anyone here BUT you can't judge someone if your not THEM... Yes u may have the same experience and crap but they HAVE THEIR OWN OPINIONS

[Emojis201]

Besides to be real parents you both must be in a real relationship to where BOTH agree with each other... I mean THINK PEOPLE.. If the girl doesn't want the baby but the man does... Well he's obviously not respecting her choice... and it's the same the other way around as well... To conclude why would you even consider abortion if your with the right person? I mean if you really loved each other, the baby would only be there to share the love, not to be separated from each parent cause one wanted it and the other didn't... IF A GIRL didn't HAVE AN ABORTION, the baby wouldn't have LOVE FROM BOTH PARENTS... So the poor kid would have a hard freaking life

[BellePepper]

Maybe when they grow some empathy. But I doubt that will ever happen so nope!
media.giphy.com/media/UK9VbxLFOAezK/giphy.gif

[samcool092]

your opinion about men is just because you are surrounded by assholes and you repulse the good guys

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 So what you're saying is the entire country and this website are just like ALL assholes who are against abortion?

[samcool092]

it depends whether you have already met everyone in the world and then you are against abortion

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 Lol you clearly tried and that still didn't make sense. That's sad bro

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 LOL all the little lies you tell yourself!

[samcool092]

I don't understand why are replying like a kid. if you are that intelligent, why are you replying if you don't understand what I am saying

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 Mostly I like to use it as another opportunity to make fun of you.

[samcool092]

but still can't do it.

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 LMFAO you do a good enough job for me XD

[samcool092]

yeah anonymity gives you the power to be a hypocrite.

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 I'm pretty consistent sooooooooo

[samcool092]

yeah have to appreciate you for that👍

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 IKR?

[samcool092]

so now since the argument has ended, can we still be rivals?

[samcool092]

😂😂

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 Like I tell all the other sad boys. You're just not on my level bro.

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 Like I said. You are really good at making fun of yourself.

[samcool092]

you can say whatever you want. I don't need a certificate from you for my intelligence.

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 It's really what you're saying for me XD

[samcool092]

what's your problem by the way

[samcool092]

you should talk like that with your husband/boyfriend

[samcool092]

you won't get anything by demeaning a stranger

[BellePepper]

@samcool092 Bro I'm looking right at your first comment on this thread and *laughing*

[laurapalmer]

Men have just as much right to their unborn child as women do, so yes.

[jacquesvol]

At the moment of legal abortion there's no child. Only a embryo

[laurapalmer]

@jacquesvol I don't really care what you call it. It's the beginning of a human being.

[jacquesvol]

@laurapalmer Every month all fertile women drop "their beginning of a human being" in their pads and all guys wipe theirs away with a Kleenex several times a week.

[dudeman]

@jacquesvol however and embryo is a living human being.

[dudeman]

@jacquesvol you know nothing of science.

[laurapalmer]

😂😂😂 you're funny. I'm a science major dude. Eggs and sperm are men and women's own cells, so it's not the beginning of a human. it's the ingredients to make a human. You're right, an embryo is living. Which is why I believe men have the right to vote on what happens to their LIVING child-to-be.

[dudeman]

I've been arguing with this old fool for years. he refuses to join the 21st century.

[jacquesvol]

@dudeman said the young fool...

[hrk93]

If he is the father of the child he most certainly has a say in the matter, however they need to respect that if the woman does get an abortion because she feels pressured etc ultimately that can really mess up someone's mental state. But I think the woman needs to really sit down and discuss it with the man too, I feel sorry for men who don't get a say.

[sundressgal]

This is so sad to read. I'm SO HAPPY to live in Canada where women can do whatever the hell they want with their bodies.

While I agree the woman should tell her partner about her decision, it should be her decision to make in the end. SHE has to carry and deliver the baby and he doesn't. He doesn't even have to stick around and help. He can peace out any time. So unless there's a binding contract for the man to completely be there for the child and mother all the way until its adulthood, he should not be able to stop her from making that decision.

[America1st]

It took two to make a baby, so the father should have a say unless he wouldn't participate in the support and raising of the child. Maybe the father wants the child even though the mother doesn't. If a woman is able to make the baby and doesn't make sure one of them is using good protection. A baby doesn't create the accident, two consenting adults do. Pro abortion people claim it's not a human baby until it's born. That's BS that they think supports their side in this. I have one question for those who don't mind killing the baby, if it's truly not a human baby, why does a person who kills a pregnant woman charged with two murders? Seems like the non human baby shouldn't count, right? The lefty abortion supporters can never answer this question because they agree with the double murder charges. Again, the leftest nut jobs don't need any facts to push their phony agenda. Any lie will do.

[IvyOp]

Not only that... those who say such things clearly haven't held, say, a 24 week 'fetus' after being born prematurely. I have. She was fully formed... fingernails and toenails, hair and eyelashes. Perfectly formed, just small. Nobody can tell me she wasn't a human being.

[America1st]

@IvyOp AMEN!!

[BlastTheKidd]

You know, Human beings are all created equally. So if it's to the point where abortion is personal there should be some sort of understanding to not have one sided votes. This specifically comes down to what the woman thinks anyway due to her giving birth as it takes much more from a woman than a man when giving birth.

[alindrik_foxy]

men shouldn't vote on abortion laws because the decision really isn't up to them and they aren't the ones with a baby

[Thisperson98]

It is their baby too.

[jacquesvol]

@Thisperson98 there is no baby and no proof of paternity

[Tdieseler]

Yup... women only use "our" ... AFTER the baby is born and she can't handle it. but before all that... its "my... my... my"...
Talking about unmarried couples...
If it takes two, i believe two should have a say.

[jacquesvol]

Men do have say: Durex or Trojan or a HJ.

[Tdieseler]

@jacquesvol short say, these things are liable to break.

[flypaper]

use spermicide too

[Tdieseler]

@flypaper hard to get... haven't even seen any

[flypaper]

Amazon!! Amazon has it!

[jacquesvol]

up... Republicans only use "our values" but ... AFTER the baby is born they don't want to grant welfare and education but then its "my money... my money... my money", "you shouldn't have had babies you can't afford"...

https://i.imgur.com/PGeuVqd.jpg

[Tdieseler]

@flypaper Don't those things have shelf life? and great... i have to order something just to have sex... lol... its not that serious. condoms and pull outs work fine for me. @jacquesvol lol... u funny... hey i tell it to women all the time not to have babies they can't afford. My coworker is doing the same shit right now. 2 kids her mom is taking care of, when she got pregnant again, the whole office (female centric office too) told her she should get rid of it. She was living in a group home and could barely afford to pay, barely could get herself fed, no car, had to have clothes donated to her... but she wants to go ahead and have a baby... Man, i was glad i didn't fuck with her, that is dumb to the derp. Her plan... is to get government W2... or worst case, drop baby #3 with her mom. Her mother must be damn proud.

[flypaper]

It's not that serious? Well don't get mad if she ends up pregnant then because you don't seem concerned with doing whatever you can to make sure it doesn't happen.

[Tdieseler]

@flypaper We all know pregnancy could happen though we all try to prevent it. Thats not the question here, in that case you can only try. I and this question are talking about what happens AFTER doomsday hits.

[flypaper]

Yeah but you just said because spermicide may have a shelf life that it's just not that important meaning you don't really care if you inexpectantly become a Father? Once their is an actual living breathing child both parents should be held responsible as far as caring about said child go. What's fair to the child is the only thing that should matter after it's born.

[Tdieseler]

@flypaper YES!!! thank you. AFTER its born... The question talks about abortion... which is a process that happens BEFORE the child is born... I guess thats what pro-lifers wait for... because once the child is born, its officially a human being. Terminating will be murder and that is not condoned... i dont condone that. Question is should men get a say... and i vote yes. It two to make a baby... i think two should make that decision. The only reason that is a controversial issue is because of the time frame. I dont think there can be a win, but as usual in our society.. the woman gets first say. Its fine when she traps a guy with a baby and child support but I've heard situations when a woman doesn't want a baby but the guy does.. and she still aborts it anyway. no one says anything about that. Why? because she has to carry it for 9 months... its honestly a no win situation. Easily solved by a prenup adjacent agreement.

[Tdieseler]

@flypaper I believe that any woman who wants to have a baby with an unconsenting father... should sign a paper saying she can't get him for nothing. That will open some of the eyes of these morons out here. Raising a baby is hard, i respect single mothers (and fathers) for their effort, but not the choice. I've seen many cases where women, as a form of revenge have used legality to "punish" a guy, meanwhile he had predicted that its hard to raise a child. The guy should have a say... or child support should be abolished. dont have an innocent being when you can't handle it. that is selfish.

[flypaper]

Woman get more say when pregnant because it is their body, life, job and stuff that is effected once the child is born then it should all be all about the child so what is fair to the parents should no longer matter as now their is a child and the only thing that should matter is what is fair to the child so it should be 50/50 on them to take care of said child. This is why everyone should be doing all they can to not land in this situation until they are ready for all it comes with.

[flypaper]

BEFORE it is born it is only effecting one of you. Onlyone of you has to change their life style.. possibly not be able to do their job anymore, may have health problems associated with pregnancy, may not be able to afford the medical bills and so on. Abortion carries risk to so it's a super important decision and not an easy one to make either way. Once you get pregnant their are risks either way and abortions stay on your medical record so you need to be comfortable with that choice... it's not an easy one at all.

[Tdieseler]

@flypaper why do you think i said there is no win. its a really really hard choice on both ends. I've heard almost everything there is on that issue... Even my little paper signing... still doesn't solve nothing, it just absolves the unwilling parent, which is usually men. thats why its so controversial. there really is no win. so your line "This is why everyone should be doing all they can to not land in this situation..." is what people abide by.

[flypaper]

People should do what they can to avoid the situation once they are in it then it's up to the woman (or not up to her if she is religious and doesn't beleive in abortion ) as to handle the situation. Many women won't even think abotu having an abortion as it means killing soemthign growing inside her. A women doesn't get to just walk away... either way it is a medical procedure... guys complain about just having to pay.. she also pays even if she didn't want the child if she's unwilling to get an abortion she just has to come to terms with having the baby. Once their is a child he can get her for child support if she decides to walk as well.. and women do... my husbands mom left and his dad got CS.

[flypaper]

Also what you are saying forces her hand if she can't afford it on her own... so then he is effectively taking away her choice in the situation unless you think the taxpayers should pick up all of the slack from dead beat dads?

[flypaper]

I know a lot of women who didn't want a child when they got pregnant but just couldn't go through with ending it's life so they had to figure it out and find a way to become okay with becoming parents... thank god in every case the guy stuck around and did the same.

[Tdieseler]

@flypaper I can't leave my child... I don't know why but i just can't... its not in me. thats why i try hard not to have any because i ain't ready. What i am saying/proposing DOES force her hand because women are emotional thinkers... emotion won't help you pass an exam.. logic does. a woman doesn't wana kill what is growing inside of her, yet she kills millions a day... yes it forces her hand. since middle school I've had friends who have gotten pregnant and after that first kid, they go "i didn't know kids were so hard"... but THEY made the choice so THEY gotta deal with it. I admit that there are dead beat dads... not a fan, bt in the 90% range, these "deadbeat" dads were guys who knew that a kid was a BAD idea but were FORCED into it. Why? let me reference you here.. "it is their body, life, job and stuff that is effected"... so then why is it that after the unwanted baby is born... its sudden an "our" thing... its should stay "my"... right?

[flypaper]

So it's okay to force her hand but not his? Yeah forcing someone to kill their child ( which isn't cheap and made harder with laws where you have to hear the heartbeat first) is okay but not making him pay for a decision that she to is paying for? So his wallet is more important then a life... her pocket is getting hit either way. A lot of women end up in therapy forever after an abortion. Yeah we aren't going to agree here. We aren't going to agree here. I'm out. Have a good one!

[Tdieseler]

@flypaper You think i haven't heard the stories? and no one is forcing... my idea doesn't force anyone... it just absolves the unwilling partner. I've also heard about the therapy girls as well... but most of those cases, it wasn't cuz of the baby, its cuz the person who coerced the act... left them after. Im not unlearned in these things... if anyone forces anyone in here... its the frickin females that do. what? an hour procedure VS 18 years? wallets aren't in this discussion... my point here is choice... if its her body, her life, her choice... i dont see why HE has to pay for it in the end. after all it WAS consensual right? Im yet to come up with something for "mother doesn't want but father wants" situation... its in there somewhere. When this was hype, i looked deep into it... probably deeper than you...

[nalaa]

Well I can see points to both sides but I think ultimately people should be allowed to that cannot directly affect them. Because all laws affect all of us indirectly
Like here in Ireland, last year or the year before that there was a referendum about marriage equality. Now most people that voted are not gay and I don't see why straight people shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I think it's too easy to just exclude the people that don't agrree with you. There'll always be reason why someone might to exclude your from voting for something important.
Remember when some Trump supporters came up with the idea that women should not vote, after polls indicated that if only women voted Hilary would win every state?
Well by the end of the day I think excluding men from voting for/against abortion isn't all that different

[lovydoey]

Well... There have been some cases where a woman wants to abort her baby yet the dad wants to keep it and raise it. Yet he has no say according to the law in some states and areas. I don't know... I really don't like the idea of killing a baby that had no blame for adults. Even if it was a product of rape... Is hard I know. But a baby is not to blame. Is not the baby's fault to be born without its wishes.

[jacquesvol]

At the moment of legal abortion there's no baby. Only an embryo. If the guy wants to impose his religion or ideas on a girl, he should look for one willing to accept that.

[lovydoey]

@jacquesvol I know. I'm just saying both have a say. Since both are the future parents of that baby. And I know. I don't like abortion but I know that there are some cases and they are free to do what they want. As long as they abort when is on the embryo stage.

[jacquesvol]

@lovydoey He has the right to try to convince her. Not to force her. Forcing a girl to carry out an unwanted pregnancy and to go through labor and childbirth is worse than rape.

[lovydoey]

@jacquesvol who said force?

[bobbyxx]

@jacquesvol mate you are the worst feminist appeaser ever. Does your wife have you shackled, threatening your balls with a red hot iron or what.

[jacquesvol]

@bobbyxx I'm a feminist by choice, by empathy. Look up the meaning of both words, please.

[Madds1544]

I think it depends part of me feels like it's the women's body and life but at same time it's also another living thing involved so I could see how if the guy wanted keep the baby but the woman wanted abortion I see it from that view. I do feel like the guy should respect the woman's decision on it and if has issue they should talk see from each other's points.

[dipta]

Even if a woman has the "right" to abort, that brings up moral and behavioral issues that pertain to the society as a whole. Of course, the same is true if they decide to have the child and give it to adoption.
Another issue that needs to be considered is whether they should be given priority when going to the hospital or be covered by health insurance. Obviously others shouldn't have to pay taxes for that, in my opinion.
As a side note, if every doctor refuses to perform such abortion, then there isn't even a right to demand.

Therefore, yes, we are all entitled to vote on that matter and an individual's behaviour affects everyone.

[xxrockmexx]

I honestly hate your poll options. You are obviously very biased on this situation.

[xxrockmexx]

Oh, it's very clear.

[Taleygirl1998]

I think so. Especially if it is a situation where his child is on the verge of living or dying.

[Kaycray]

My body... my rules...

[ksoma]

No, men should have no say.
And seeing as Roe V Wade was decided by supreme court that was all male, it should be thrown out, rendering all abortion illegal, until we have an all female supreme court available to revisit the case.
After all, who did those men think they were, making a decision on that?

[goaded]

I know you're joking, but it's generally a good think to allow freedom to others and a bad thing to restrict something without a very good reason.

[ksoma]

@goaded well, abortion kind of limits the freedom to that human being by killing it, so...

[mistixs]

your comment assumes that the default is illegal abortion. the default in nature is actually legal abortion.

[lalaLiza]

Option A seems a little bias to me. I don't think it has anything to do with wanting to give input on a woman's body, it should focus more on the child. It takes two people to make a child, in the cases of a father wanting to keep the child but the mother wants to abort it; his opinion is definitely valid.