Why does it seem like men only want " equality" for themselves?

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

I've noticed this big idea about social equality is being stressed by the guys a lot. Things like getting rid of traditional gender roles, and reaching a side of gender neutral living in society. Men complain about having to approach, chivalry, paying for dates yada yada yada - And I can totally understand wanting that equality there. But then, why do guys not want that same idea of equality for women? What I mean is, a lot of guys are against the idea of women being able to express ourselves as sexually and freely as men - Or shed traditional female roles such as being the cooks and cleaners for our homes. It's like, it's fine for guys to get their " equality" but when women try for ours - it's suddenly a monumental issue? Why does it seem like men only want this idea of social "equality" for themselves? If you want equality, then you need to realize that means change for both sides - not just favoring one side. Anyway, what do you guys think?

[moaterboat]

I'm afraid I must disagree with you here. I think the reason guys are talking about equality these days is because it has been rammed down our throats all our lives. I still remember my mom being angry with me when I was a little kid because I told my sister that boys are doctors and girls are nurses, (In my defense, I thought nurse was what you called a female doctor).

For many years now it has been socially acceptable for women to operate outside of their traditional gender roles. Women can be doctors, soldiers, executives and fire fighters. Men however are still under scrutiny in some fields, especially anything involving young children, where they are often times suspected of being pedophiles.

At home, men are expected to help with cooking, cleaning, laundry, and other things, but if the whole family is out for a drive and the car gets a flat tire, who is going to be the one that takes care of it? The guy. Who is going to unclog a stopped up drain? The guy.

Regarding sexuality, yes there is the player vs slut double standard, but the slut label is applied by other women far more often than men. On the flip side, any woman that wants to wait to have sex is far more accepted than any guy who believes that. Don't even get me started on sex toys, which are perfectly OK for women, but if guy has one he is a perverted loser. Women can express themselves more easily than men these days, as guys feel like they are walking on eggshells when it comes to sexual harassment, but women are simply "liberated"

In short, I think that the equality movement has actually shifted things beyond balanced in many ways.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

I completely agree with that last statement - I figured something like that would be the result of this " equality movement." Women have significant power - that on top of the rigid / inflexible rules of male society, would easily make the balance fall more in favor of the girls. I honestly think the traditional roles aren't even that bad, so long as they aren't limiting - like what you said about the guys working with kids - aspects like that are what we need to change ultimately.

[Anonymous]

I do EVERY single thing you mentioned, and much more. I do all the typical male gender role things (high pay job, asking girls out, manly, polite, paying for dates, romantic, athletic, great lover , fixing things etc...) and all female gender role things (cooking, laundry, groceries, buying clothes etc...).

Equality is meaningless. What matters is people choosing a way of living and being fair to their potential partners. Thing that matters is:

What do YOU offer to initiate and build a relationship. And I met a lot of girls with a long list of what they want their guys to be like and do while NEVER asking themselves what they offer beyond their looks. They all say how they are ready for Mr right. The truth is Mr right is ready, they got to get their sh*t together and be realistic lol

Seriously, girls tell me I'm amazing, and I am and work hard at it. And I can say with a straight face I'm utterly unimpressed by the vast majority of women I know. Lots of talking and not much backing up with real tangible facts. Most of it is hot air. Most girls are clueless or in serious denial, or have a princess view where they are waiting for prince charming.

There is a serious disconnect between what they offer and what they want to receive. And it's almost incredible to witness how they seriously believe I'd go for a long term relationship with them. Like he doesn't cross their minds. They believe the selection process goes one way. They select men, not the other way around. There are exceptions fortunately, but in general women are a big let down and they don't take rejection well let me tell you!

[kheserthorpe]

This. This is where single guys I know my age are. And when they look at their married friends (guys like me) they're even more likely to be choosy. Girls get chased so much in their 20's, they think that's how it is, reality can hit like a sledgehammer as they get older and want more, suddenly they're chasing fewer guys who are now in demand and are choosy.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

OMG SO TRUE! I know exactly what you mean - a lot of girls just focus on being hot, and don't have much to offer, or expect the guy to provide and be everything for the relationship. That female complex is majorly due to remnants of past psychology - in which women were taught we weren't worth very much except, cleaning / cooking/ having his kids / and looking hot. Naturally a lot of women would just use that idea as a way to justify them as good women - but in todays

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

society, especially with everyone screaming for equality - I say it's not an acceptable role to only have anymore. To just look pretty and be relatively useless. I think a lot more women need to shake that idea and actually focus on making themselves of value. Men are taught to have value since the day they are born, being strong, the providers, useful, reliable, masculine, dependable, take on being in charge of the world, being the leaders etc - What are girls taught? Be pretty.

[kheserthorpe]

Cooking and cleaning and having kids and looking good isn't useless. I know lots of SAHM. Very few of them are able to do the first three of those - if the kids are young, they cook or clean but not both.

[dtaijo174]

Epic answer!

[Opinion Owner]

I fully agree with both of you. There is no doubt that girls in their 20s are seriously mistaken. They think being desirable is more than enough so they sit on their ass for all the rest. They get a rude awakening once their looks start to fade or realize guys in relationships are a different beast then when they try to score. And I met great women and know they are capable of being incredible. It's true that society still tends to ONLY expect them to be pretty and nice and it's wrong.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Yea, I think a lot of SAHM get lazy after a while. At first they are all clean, and cook, and do all the responsibilities, but then after a while, just stop being as diligent with it. My aunt is a stay at homer and her house is always messy - she does cook faithfully though, but the kids kind of run rampant and trash the place :\

[Opinion Owner]

That's how I feel. Lots of girls gladly take the low expectation road for themselves and put much of the responsibilities on the guys. Then are all hypocritical about it and say guys are a**holes and don't treat them right. Truth is they have awful personalities and are lazy. Again women complain in disproportionate amount compare to what THEY do. I respect doers, not talkers. My motto is: Stop talking, show me what you do and I'll tell you if I'm interested.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

@ Kheserthorpe I wish more men would think like you.

[selfishstars]

I think that both men and women are guilty of this.

There are definitely women embrace equality where it benefits them, but reject equality when it doesn't--i.e. women who don't want to take on the role of cooking and cleaning, but still expect men to ask them out and pay for dates.

The reason why men tend to complain about it more than women is likely due to the fact that feminism/women's rights are more commonly talked about/pushed, and so when women cling to ideas that are unequal, it makes women look hypocritical.

That is to say, when men complain about having to approach, chivalry, paying for dates, etc., this inequality does bother a lot of them, but it's also tinged with the feeling that women are being hypocrites (and even men who prefer traditional gender roles will be quick to point out the hypocrisy due to their dislike for feminism).

And people are more likely to complain about things that affect them directly---men will most likely complain about how inequality affects men, whereas women are more likely to complain about how inequality affects women.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Excellent answer :D I 100% agree

[saphirasilverwings]

Men say the same thing about women a lot. It seems nobody has any sympathy for the other party. I believe that problems for each side are roughly equal and I try to stay neutral.

[stubbsy]

I think women should go about as they see fit, but be prepared to be judged accordingly, because I prefer to take a girl out than she takes me out, and yes, I don't like the thought of girls sleeping around, I enjoy the home feeling a woman creates and I don't think men can do as well a job, and the list goes on, but I think a lot of it works the way it is, like women having top jobs and power over dome men, but those who want to dichant a woman by insisting equality in paying for dates, is petty and most men will still insist on them doing the honours, because real men like to show a woman that he is worthy of her talents, and paying for the date is one way in initiating this into practice, so I say , sod the cheap skates, don't date them any more, because if your with a real man, he will insist on paying,x

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Good answer - a lot of people see the gender roles as some terrible rule they have to follow - when most the time, gender roles stem from something that's more natural. As a woman, I do like to maintain a clean home, and keep my family nourished - it's apart of that profound nurturing nature. Likewise, men tend to be more on the side of being providers and protectors. I don't see much wrong with these roles, so long as they aren't severe, like that's all your allowed to do.

[stubbsy]

No I absolutely agree, because a woman should also be nurtured into following her dreams, and I agree, men have the desire to provide and protect, so two great minds have thought alike on this one. if I could rate your comment I would lol. So all this proves is there is a future for the way we do things, as long as we remain instinctive, I don't see us getting much better than we all ready are. Male shovernists are well out dated, with respect we both deliver, and do it well,x

[sinful1620]

I think the voice on "equality" has been completely female-dominated for the last 40 years or so. Feminists have worked to make sure that women are at the center of every issue, and that in no way is it popular to show men at a disadvantage to women.

At this point, we don't expect women to be homemakers, or to cook and clean, or any of the old housewife stuff. We still expect men to wait to be rescued before women, to sacrifice for women, to put women up on a pedestal, etc.

I do think women are disadvantaged in many areas. I think the nature of true egalitarianism is to treat all issues as equally important, instead of saying "yeah all white men are privileged!" and focusing purely on women's and non-white people's problems.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

True. I figured this whole " equality" thing would ultimately end up with women having like 95% of the perks, and guys with a measely 5% of whatevers left over. That kinda sucks. I mean and men can't do very much about it - like they can all come together and boycott - but then the women will cut them off and the guys won't ever get the women.

[MrWizard]

Genders are different. Anyone who tries to say otherwise is delusional and has no grasp on reality; however, that doesn't mean one or the other is better overall or that either should be treated as superior or inferior. Relationships would be much better off if people tried to complement each other rather than compete.

Check out the book "Love and Respect". Great read on the subject.

[kurozogo]

Bs .

Those roles are ghosts of the past , there are no ladies or gentlemen anymore , its just that people have to get what they want and they need to use facts to do that , even some gender roles brought out of the history books ..

[kheserthorpe]

A) much like when men complain about 'women' wanting A and B, its different guys. Players do not complain about equality, they laugh about it being great. Its the guys who aren't getting laid easily who complain. They end up either pursuing or ending up with 'nice girls' who ask them to jump through hoops, which they do. But if sex is supposed to be 'for everyone', why do they have to jump through hoops for it? There are a lot of 'nice girls' who have absorbed the 'sex with whoever I want' message (i.e. if I don't feel like it, its not happening) while keeping the 'guys should be romantic and take me out and do nice things for me' message. These are the girls being discussed when, a few weeks ago, someone asked 'what is the girl's unique responsibility in a relationship' and nobody could think of any. They demand a lot, but aren't willing to go out of their way to do anything.

B) There are also some guys who are players who look down on the women they're sleeping with, and don't have any intention of settling down with them. These guys are a relatively small group.

Anyway, 'society' is always messed up in different ways, and you can find pockets where every type of person is getting screwed over. Each of us needs to focus on our own relationships and how we're treated.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Ooh very true - great answer - Your so right about the guys having to jump through hoops and stuff - perhaps the idea is actually more reversed than I thought. Wow, they couldn't think of one responsibility?

[kheserthorpe]

I'm sure they dug one up. I don't know. I am aware of women who are totally used by men, and men totally used by women. Its not random though, in a given area, you'll see things going one way or the other. You want to see men being run into the ground, go visit suburbia and watch young families. I'm biased I guess, my wife is a SAHM (her choice) who acts like my going to work and providing for our family of five is a nice treat for me to get to go out.

[Kaeden]

I don't complain about having to approach, I'm in charge to see which girl I want to approach, instead of weeding off a lot of ugly girls, if the roles would be reversed!

I don't complain about chivalry, I actually enjoy treating girls good!

I don't complain about paying for dates, UNLESS I may see some signs she wants only free lunch from me and nothing more!

Do I not want equality for women? What are you talking about?

Hell, I SUPPORT sexual expressions of women! Where you got this, damn?

Were you on weed or something when typing this question? It's full of... what the fuuck really.. nothing of your question makes any sense, like you with purpose were looking for something to bitch about!

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Calm your ass down - your bitching for no reason. Gah my baby cousin doesn't whine half as much as you do. Anyway, the question was simply about this aspect that a lot of guys seem to be upset over traditional male roles and want to change them - but on the other hand - traditional gender roles for women, are being encouraged to stay in place, such as women being primary caregivers for the home and family, and being as sexually conservative as possible. Don't care if your not one of those guys

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

All I want is your perspective on this is all, minus all your needless ranting. Sorry if my little curious question hurt your sensitive ego as a man - get over it. If you don't like this question, or don't have the capacity to understand it - then find a more simple question you can actually answer :)

[Kaeden]

Hahaha, now it's ME who's ranting and need to calm down? I'm completely fine with traditional gender roles, I even support them! You just say "there are men like that and that" I've never seen anyone like that! You just made a bubble of pure bullsh*t which absolutely makes no sense that's what I mean!

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

I'm perfectly calm - you attacked me for no reason lol. Just because you haven't encountered these guys, doesn't mean they aren't out there. As far as pure bullsh*t - your sadly mis informed then, or just not a very observant person - as every other person who answered in this forum knew exactly what I was talking about. Sorry you don't get it lol.

[frustratedchump06]

i'm all for women getting their equality, women deserve to be paid as much as men do

[dudeman]

social stuff I couldn't care less about its the legal stuff that gets me.women legally have more rights then men which is kinda wild

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Legally as in like rape cases and stuff? Explain a bit more?

[kheserthorpe]

I'd guess he means more child custody and in divorce cases, though possibly also abortion decision making.

[dudeman]

like kheserthorpe said, men have no reproductive rights

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Oh yea - that's a tough one to call. I mean, the woman carries this child for 9 months - the attachment biologically / emotionally / psycologically is intense; so reproductive rights are hard to call. Not that the dude doesn't get pretty attached but it's not as frequent as in women - or so it seems. Other cases like custody, divorce, abortion - yea those definitely can get one sided for the girls - but it depends on the situation too. Not all moms are good for their kids -

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Divorce - I don't see how the woman comes out with everything there - often when parents split it's an equal split unless one parent is like super wealthy and there's no pre nup or something. My mom lost her house, car, etc when she split from my dad so. Abortion - I really believe both parents should have a say so there. The issue with that is as far as the girl, is that she's the one who physically has to undergo the stress. It's easy for the guy to be like - oh lets keep it :D but

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

what about the cost of the pregnancy to the girl? She could have very serious complications, die even, baby may get injured during it, etc - I know this is a very superficial reason, but the girls body doesn't remain the same as before (some girls actually abort because of that - ugh right?) I think that's why the choice is put so much more on the mother in the situation - the guy doesn't have to go through anything. But I don't know - any mom who can slaughter her un born child - ugh...

[dudeman]

still a man should have a right to legally walk away or not, he shouldn't be able to tell a women what to do with her body but he also shouldn't be forcefully trapped paying for the kid he doesn't want

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Yea - I don't know - I guess the child support things is to prevent hordes of men from impregnating multiple women and shunning their responsibilities. There'd be a sh*t load of father less children - more so than now, if there wasn't some type of penalty or consequence for the guy. It's an unfair trap - but in the grand scheme of things, it prevents men from letting their d***s run a muck.

[dudeman]

yeah that's still not right though. we allow abortion.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Yea - see how long that last with all the religious nuts fighting to take away free choice - Abortion honestly, is a crappy, but solid solution for both male / female in this case. Dn't have the baby , guy doesn't need to pay child support. So it works both ways actually.

[dudeman]

ell its not a good option for men since its a womwns choice sometimes she will want to keep it and he wont

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Yea - but I think that choice is made unfair, because of the natural aspect of it. Men don't have to deal with the stress of pregnancy, so the toll is a lot heftier on the woman :\ But it is unfair if the guy doesn't want it and she does - but he can't really do much about it :( it's just one of those entrapments of life I guess...

[Screamsgutter]

"It's an unfair trap - but in the grand scheme of things, it prevents men from letting their d***s run a muck." Why is a girl getting pregnant always all the man's fault? Women are the gatekeepers to sex. They allow men through the gate and are responsible for the kind of guy goes through. It's her responsibility to make sure he has contraceptives (he has like two, maybe three options). It's her responsibility to close the gate if he has none. Women have over a dozen forms of contraceptives, yet apparently aren't using any of them otherwise she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. No one is gonna care about your well-being and future more than you are. So why is the guy supposed to be the responsible one?

[cyrus7]

The only difference is, feminism is more mainstream now a days, so women that ditch their gender roles are seen as "liberated" and "free". Whereas if a guy was to do the same, he would be ridiculed and called a loser etc.

Alot of girls on this site prove that too lol

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Oh you have a very good point - being an empowered independent female is definitely more encouraged these days.

[cyrus7]

right, while if a guy decided to ditch his gender roles most girls probably wouldn't even date him

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

That's true to - guys don't have much flexibility there at all.

[Anonymous]

Hahaha feminists do that a lot more than any guys I’ve seen

[Anonymous]

It's the other way around actually, women are the ones that want the cake and to eat it too.. men are still trapped in their past gender roles

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Poor dudes - you guys don't have much flexibility in society :(

[Opinion Owner]

yeah and yet everyone is still cheering for more woman equality

[Anonymous]

It's the age old case of the pot calling the kettle black for both sides, I guess. I don't really complain about it too much. When I do speak up about the spending on dates and girls asking guys out, I'm doing it because some girls take those things for granted. Asking someone out isn't THAT easy, and spending money on someone is a very, very nice gesture. I think men have taken the cooking and cleaning for granted in the past, because if I'm honest, it seems that most women can't do it if their lives depended on it. That being said, I don't think this sort of equality is absolutely necessary. We all have our own criteria for who we want to date. If a girl wants a guy that pays her way and treats her like a princess, so be it. If I want a girl that doesn't sleep around and can cook decently (I'll split the cleaning, no problem), that's up to me. Sure other people will judge us for it, but my happiness comes before theirs any day.