Sexual Health
+1 y

Equal rights, if women are allowed an abortion, why are men not allowed?

a legal surrender and be granted the option of walking away from his pregnant girlfriend or f*** buddy or ONS. why is the decision to have sex for women just that it is simply agreeing to sex and not agreeing to parent hood due to the abortion option. however if you look at men, the decision to have sex is the decision to have sex and be a parent seeing men have no out of parenthood equivalent to abortio? so I will use algebra to demonstrate my logic for those of you who need it Women agreeing to sex = ATS agreeing to carry the child=CC so ATS + CC = Parenthood so if we had equality there would be two decisions one being sex and one after sex however for a man they don't have a second option so ATS= Parenthood for men for things to be equal mathematically you need to set them equal so I will replace parenthood in the womens equation with the mans equation ATS + CC = ATS so for this equation to be true it would seem a mans choice to have sex has more responsibility with it legally and that is sexist by definition
Updates:
+1 y
what I am saying is forcing a women to carry a child so much more worse the forcing a man to work and channel a significant portion of his funds to the women and child he didn't agree to have. in the modern world we call forced labor slavery and that is exactly what I am proposing, this seems to be slavery in a sense maybe not that bad but involuntary indentured servitude for sure
+1 y
please everybody leave what's best the children out of this debate, if what's best for the children was really what this was about, abortion would be a criminal offense, I said the man should be allowed to walk during pregnancy when it is a fetus, and not a child. if its a fetus and not a person for a womens choice, then it aslo is for men, and therefore what's best for the father is what's important seeing he's a human being. these are the same arguments I hear for abortion so they will have to
+1 y
for men as well
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Most Helpful Girls

  • Okay, found a new language we can use to approach our protracted discussion below.

    I think I get your mathematical logic in the question. So the "additional rights of women" you are referring to are the rights to have an abortion or not have an abortion. Men don't get the final say here, so your proposal is that men can choose a "financial abortion" if the woman for whatever reason does not choose the physical abortion. So the financial abortion for men is in lieu of the physical abortion for women. This would amount to the equivalence in your eyes.

    Unfortunately, it doesn't work mathematically, because you need to include context. In the context of a financial abortion, women alone will continue to hold responsibility for the mutual sex act. In the context of a physical abortion, neither party will carry responsibility. So the first inequality is in responsibilities, where women have a greater burden for the mutual sex act, if financial abortion is an option.

    But then your argument is that women CHOOSE NOT TO HAVE AN ABORTION, so by that logic, men should be able to financially abort if they so please. But, what if the woman cannot "choose" a physical abortion for whatever reason (religious, moral, health, etc). I'm not sure, but I don't think you would argue that you could impose abortion on a woman. In this case, carrying the child is not so much a choice, but a responsibility that she cannot opt out of. So men in this context should share that responsibility, and should not be able to financially abort a mutually consensual product of sex.

    I'm sure there are other options. For now, I'm going to go with male contraceptives.

    • no it equals out because that's something that they choose to do.

    • the math is perfect because the gravity of those decision does not matter. all that matters is the ability to decided. also if a man wants a baby and a women carries it he can accept responsibility and in that sense it would erase the scenario you put forth. her deciding not to abort is still a choice. I'm sorry but you didn't defeat anything you simply wrote four paragraphs of nothing.

    • Okay, I think we've reached that inevitable impasse where we can't bring up rational new arguments. Ultimately, I think where we can't agree on is on a definition of freedom. Your idea seems to be that freedoms in law should be treated as abstract entitlements - just as in maths, context doesn't matter because the theory provides an abstract principle of equality. My argument is that freedoms need to be protected and defined based on their real life consequences. The mathematical logic doesn't..

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  • i think you just want a big reaction right.

    Because put yourself in the position if you are a woman, for a second here. Put yourself in this scenario:

    Man - Agrees to consensual sex

    Woman - Agrees to consensual sex.

    Everything okay so far

    Oh wait, the condom broke.

    Oh wait, one of you gets pregnant, its the woman.

    Noone had planned for a pregnancy obviously here, but by agreeing to consensual sex, you agree to a possible failure of a condom, and if you're a douchebag enough not to use one with a casual sex partner, then you are bound by the fact you did impregnate her.

    About monetary responsibilities, what kind of douchebag leaves someone pregnant and then asks to 'abort' away from the responsibility? You shouldn't have sex with her in the first place then. All sex carries risk. You could get a disease or you could get someone pregnant. Just like you can't "abort" out of HIV, you can't abort out of the fact that the child is carrying your genes. So don't be a douchbag, and act responsibility.

    • what kind of douche bag aborts, you side stepped the issue and what you said was irrelevant

    • you side stepped the issue and said act responsible when you still didn't address that fact women have more rights in this area

    • They SHOULD have more rights in this area because the foetus is inside HER body now. If you could come to a mutual agreement to terminate, then it would be fine, but you can't really say 'i abort from the baby you are having' morally speaking, cos its your genes. That's irresponsible, as a father. I don't think you should have a right to say you're not the father. As for whether you pay child support, that's where the douchebag part comes in. You don't if your a douchebag, you do if you're not.

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  • i agree to an extent in that if a man declares that he does not want to bring the child up within a certain time period he should not have to pay for the child as the woman has known the circumstances in that she would be raising it allone, however if after this time he decides not to raise the child then the mother cannot make an informed decision so he should still pay... that's my views on the matter

    • yeah I agree if he decides to raise the kid then should be held accountable for his choices

Most Helpful Guys

  • The woman has more say in this matter because you can't compare the single guy's cumshot to the bodily changes she goes through over 9 months of carrying the baby. If they don't want the baby after that, fine, there's adoption. But saying that the guy whose orgasm gives him as much rights in the carrying/birthing process as the woman who carried it inside her for 9 months? That's just silly and retarded.

    • you misread what I wrote, I believe in no way should a man tell a women to abort or not.

    • what you're saying is that if women should be allowed to abort or continue on with the pregnancy regardless of the man's consent, then men should be allowed to decide whether or not they want to be a part of the child's life as a father figure or financial input. and what I'm saying is that they're apples and oranges because the physical health changes a woman goes through during pregnancy far outweigh the financial hardship a man might endure while paying child support.

    • you're trying to say that having to fork over money is just as hard on him as the changes to her body are on her, and if you really think that you're deluded. on top of that you're forgetting that there's adoption.

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  • You miserable piece of work. Your views are just about the most disgusting I have ever come across. Any other hate and bile you have to spill inside little man? Maybe you hate Jews or Blacks or something also? You must have the tiniest of little peckers to be so angry about women.

    • lol since when is equality disgusting. you are an idiot sorry to tell you. I don't hate anybody

    • Lucky enough for me I live in a world where the majority of people do not share your views and the number that do shrink every day. Go about your hate campaigns little filth, you won't change anything because the tide of history is against you and the better women and the better men. You need to realize women are not against you; they don't try to screw men, the only men they screw are the ones that don't treat them right.. little men like you. So good for you mate, keep hating, you suffer.

    • lol you are the one preaching hate. I am not saying women are against me. the laws clearly are however and that should not be allowed. also how do I suffer there is no hate in my heart I got a beautiful girlfriend life is good. also there are plenty of people who think like me and we are growing by the day you really need to grow up and open up your narrow world view

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What Girls & Guys Said

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  • Because the abortion doesn't happen to your body.

    Guys get a big say but not the last when it comes to sticking a vacuum up a woman's baby hole.

    • i didn't ask for one, I asked for an equivalent course of action to decide he direction of my own life

    • Oh I see, so your main question, really, is how does a guy with an unwanted child get around paying child support? And your view is that women have the option of an abortion, and can thereby sidestep the lifelong commitment, whereas men can't make this decision once the woman decides to keep it. Yeah, it's an interesting question, and I see what you're saying. You can't bring up equivalents, though, because the ordeal of an unexpected pregnancy is not equivalent for men and women. Neither is the

    • lifelong commitment in most instances, esp. if the woman decides to raise the child alone, with only minimum child support payments. There's probably a solution out there, but it will take someone extremely creative to come up with a fair one. In the meantime, if only we had an oral contraceptive FOR MEN to make this whole scenario easier... or better yet, a little piece of rubber to slip over a pen*s to prevent the insertion of semen during intercourse. Sigh.

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  • I think you're trying to say why can't men refuse to pay child support when a woman doesn't choose the abortion? Please clarify. I'm interested in this.

    • I would have to say if one or the other cannot afford to have money siphoned away because it puts their life at risk, then it would be okay to "file" for something to not pay child support all together, or not pay until one is sufficiently stable.

  • Because child support isn't to penalise the father or reward the mother, it's about what's best for the child.

    The child's environment and conditions are viewed as the priority, over the rights of the parents.

    • straw man argument. if the rights of the child were really what mattered, abortion wouldn't be legal. argument refuted come back with some logic. I said unborn child, if a women can kill and unborn child walking away is only a fraction of the severity and without a doubt the lesser of the two evils

    • @update: I agree that it's unfair to force a guy to pay for a child he may not have wanted, and I'm sure the courts (and society) recognise that as well. But what's the point in bitching about it when ultimately it comes to the same thing - you want what's best for the kid.

    • I'm not sure how it was a straw man argument. I refuted it by rendering your argument purposeless? Anyway, it's about handling the cards you're dealt. Abortion means the situation doesn't need to be considered - and the fetus isn't considered to be a child. A man has no obligation to care for his pregnant partner. Once the child is born, it has supreme rights.

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  • If you voluntarily had sex, then you voluntarily decided to have that kid. So take responsibility or castrate yourself. Simple. Stop crying about it. *If the guy was raped by a girl and she is having his baby only then will I sympathize with your question*

    • youre argument is invalid, I just demonstrated that with basic math. the only way your opinion would be valid is if you want to make abortion illegal or you aer just plain sexist.

    • Please refrain from posting additional answers within the same question. Post your updates as comments, not new answers.

    • What! Super Moderator? You deleted my post? :o I did try to comment, It didn't let me.. so I went up there. >:[

  • Men tend to not give birth. Unless you're a sea horse. In that case, give that man some abortion rights.

    • what does giving birth have to do with forfeiting you legal and financial responsibilities? that's just called equal rights.

    • Oh hohoho I'm not going there with you

    • ok its equality though men shouldn't have to financially support a womens decision to give birth and women shouldn't be forced to carry a child because a man wants it. its the same thing.

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  • STOP WITH ALL THE DAMN ABORTION QUESTIONS, WHO GIVE'S A FLYING F**K! God damn why is this not in other.

    • idk why, and I give a flying f***, don't comment if you don't want but please stfu if you got no input

    • this also wasn't an abortion question its an equal rights question thanks for reading

    • still slighty an abortion question, I did read it, I just could only under stand it 75%, the abortion questions are pissing me off simply because I'm trying to learn about sex, not peoples thoughts on abortion and those questions are everywhere, its annoying me, sorry I posted this on yours.

  • Because no matter how frustratin it is to you, you aren't tone creating the baby, you only initiated the process. You have no right to these thigs because they don't pertain to you.

    • i didn't ask for abortion rights, I asked for the right to deny financial and legal responsibility the same as women are able to. she shouldn't be able to tell me what to do with my body and life the same as I shouldn't be able to tell her

    • If she had a baby she must take care of it or give it up. It's te same for you. I don't understand where your whining becomes validAted in this?

    • because men do not have the option to opt out of responsibility, this isn't whinning its called a debate.

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  • Wow. I think that is totally unethical. Do you know how babies are made? If someone does not want a child maybe they should plan accordingly ( condoms, vasectomy, no sex,etc ) I'm sorry but children do no ask to be brought into this world.

    • the children are not an issue in this discussion

    • I agree it's just wrong, a child is much more than just variables But talking about variables, you shouldn't use the same variable for 2 different things. ATS + CC = ATS just doesn't make any sense. This equation cannot be true

    • no its not two different agreeing to sex agreeing to sex the equations doesn't make any sense because have equality, the equation is mathematical representation of that

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  • Abortion allows women to essentially walk away from a pregnancy, something we criticize men for. I think both sexes should have to live up to their responsibilities if they create a child.

    • thank you for recognizing that I agree both parties should be responsible but as abortion is legal men need to also be granted the same privileged

    • No, men should not be able to walk away. They have a duty to be a father to the child and also provide financial support. Even though a double standard exists, that's not the answer. The right thing to do is to require the same of women. The right to an abortion does not exist in the constitution. It was created by judicial fiat. It rightfully should be overruled.

    • well I agree with that as well

  • Men know the risks they take when they have sex. STD's, and pregnancy, are just two of them.

    It's their choice to have sex, it's their choice to wear a condom (or not). It's their choice to have sex with a girl if they don't know her stance on the pill, or contraception in general, or abortion.

    If you play russian roulette with your d***, then you can't go around crying about things when you blow your own head off.

    • non of that matters in this debate, it is irrelevant

    • It's perfectly relevant. You just want the option of having actions without consequences. Sex, without a condom, and no consequences. But that's not how the world works. Actions have consequences. If you don't want a kid, be more careful how you have sex, and with whom you have it.

    • its not relevent because we are starting from agreeing to having sex. for your opinion tobe valid you would also have to be against abortion as well in which case the equation would change and would be void but if not the stuff you mention invalid, this is about rights not precautions

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  • ATS + CC = ATS

    ATS = ATS

    what?

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Home >  Sexual Health  > Equal rights, if women are allowed an abortion, why are men not allowed?