Do you "believe in" marital rape?

[samhradh_leannan]

Do you believe that once you marry someone, you are entitled to do whatever you want to each other sexually, whether or not both parties are comfortable with it? Or do you believe that the rules of rape and consent still apply within marriage? This question was inspired by this one link which has gotten me pretty up in arms. I had no idea there was still disagreement on the issue, at least in my geographical area. I am also curious to see if there is any trend here associated with gender.

Polls are anonymous, so do vote honestly. Also feel free to expand on your opinion!

[Anonymous]

Voted B, which is closest to what I think. Caveats?

- While I wouldn't do it myself, if your partner is 'too drunk to offer or decline consent' to a sex act you do fairly regularly, I'd consider it reasonable to -presume- consent in that case. Note that is NOT the case in the (I suspect trolling) link - where theoretically she has never consented to that act.

- While rape and consent still apply, nobody should consider sex to be, in the long run, optional in marriage. Trying to meet your partner's sexual needs is a part of marriage and anyone not interested in that, week in, week out, should not get married.

[madhatters4]

rape is rape is rape. It is wrong in all situations

did you know that up until the late 1800s it was 100% OK to rape your wife in America? and in 1993 North Carolina was the last state to declare marital rape illegal. It is shocking how sad antiquated religious statutes pave the way for disgusting laws.

[Cryostatic]

Seriously. Laws made by nomadic tribemen thousands of years ago have no place in a modern society.

[kheserthorpe]

I don't think you can pin this one on 'religion'. Women were simply treated as property.

[madhatters4]

"women were treated as property". You are right but where do you think that notion came from? Christian law (which is built out of the time of patriarchal dominance) states that a woman can not refuse sex...all I'm saying is that religion, specifically christianity, is responsible for too terrible laws, whether the religions based it on female subserviance or something else too many of our laws (America) are/were based on religious beliefs

[kheserthorpe]

Women were treated as property well before that.

[Anonymous]

My ex husband tried to rape me. I was on my period and I was in real pain...cramps. I did not want to have sex. He knew this. He held me down and tried to pull off my panties. We were not doing any playful wrestling. We struggled for what seemed like forever. Finally when I started crying...he stopped. The next morning I confronted him about it. He laughed and said I was crazy.

[aky4226]

In that case, it's good you divorced coz I think that guy was crazy.

[DarkSamus]

Yes.

Just because your married doesn't mean you love the person. And also it doesn't mean that someone should be able to take advantage of you. If you didn't consent to sex, then by no means should you partner force you to.

And if you do end up having sex, its going to be lackluster lazy sex. Just wait until the other person is truly down for it.

[kheserthorpe]

While I don't think marital rape is fine ... There's no guarantee your partner will ever be truly down for it.

[peace-love-couture]

Sex without consent is ALWAYS rape. I think marital rape is probably more common than we think because many people are not aware that a spouse can rape their spouse. I know in 2007 or so, Tyra had an episode on spousal rape and then people began talking about it, cause she brought it to light, but people are for the most part still unaware

[diegoD]

why some women would be so stupid and marry someone they aren't willing to have sex with? its like signing a contract, breaching it and then complaining for the consequences of breaching it

[peace-love-couture]

Marriage isn't an automatic contract for sex I've seen your answers and comments and honestly, I feel bad for whoever ends up with you

[Proxity]

I'd have to say yes.

There is nothing more frightening than someone you've loved for so long violating you against your will. It's emotionally scarring and a complete wipe-out of all respect.

Just imagine... what was once this kind, loving gentle person---now an emotionless sexual barbarian. That is NOT the person you married.

It is rape.

[Cryostatic]

Marriage is a parnership.

And while I personally feel that one should NOT deny sex to their partner in a marriage (if you feel the need to, you should probably end it), the fact remains that you CAN.

Your husband/wife is your partner, not your property to do with whatever you see fit.

At least, that's the way it is in any CIVILIZED society.

[justme20]

I believe no matter what someone's martial status is if something is forced upon you without your consent then its rape no matter if you are married or not

[justme20]

The anon guy who says "If you're a Christian, then Scriptures basically say that couples are never to deny sex to each other, as part of marriage" I have never seen anything in the bible where it says that. Marriage mates have the freedom to turn down a partner for various reasons

[justme20]

LOL @anon guy. That's not saying you cannot turn someone down. You have it all mixed up. Its saying when you are married you are considered one person (2 people come together in union). When it comes to sex his body is yours and hers for his but you can still turn someone down regardless.

[sovetskii13]

Just because you are married to that person, doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with him/her. It doesn't give you the legal right to kill them, cause physical damage, or ape them, and more. Married people still need to follow the law. Being married means them get to share a bank account, a single home, and more. But it doesn't them the right to commit crimes such as rape.

[NickInVideo]

Why would anyone want to marry a rapist?

Why would a rapist want to get married?

Sexual compatibility is one of many important traits to facilitate a great marriage. If marital rape happens, there's a lot of other bad stuff that's been overlooked in the past.

So, in a good marriage, it won't happen anyway. Neither party will rape the other. Both sexes can and do rape.

But really, this can't be if the marriage is a positive and loving one, if it's not... then what the hell is going on in the marriage?

[samhradh_leannan]

You bring up some good points. But rape isn't always the obvious dark alley kidnapping at gun point situation. You can also have situations where someone is coerced or threatened in a subtler way, which is also rape but is harder to define and also probably more likely to happen within marriage than more obvious types of rape.

[NickInVideo]

Yeah, like the other question you were talking about. I get that. I'm not sure how prevalent it is in marriage. I'm going to standby that it can occur in marriages that aren't good. When it does happen, chances are there are other subtle cues. Here's something important, doesn't change much, just perspective, contract law has held that silence is a form of acceptance. In a contract, no means no, but the absence of a yes doesn't mean no. There's nuance to it, like alcohol, but that's basic

[AliceWonders2013]

"the absence of a yes doesn't mean no" wrong! If you don't get a clear yes, you should always assume it means no and ask. Otherwise I hope you get what's coming to you.

[NickInVideo]

Gosh, I'm really glad someone swung by to down vote this and tell me I'm wrong two months later. If saying a clear yes is the only thing that makes sex not rape, then I'm pretty happy abstaining from any genital entanglements with the opposite sex. If all types of ambiguity is rape then almost all sex is rape. Hell, it could be said that my partner only said yes because she wasn't comfortable saying no, and therefore I raped her and a yes isn't always consent either! F***!

[samhradh_leannan]

A yes ISN'T always consent, if it was obtained through pressuring, threats, or any other type of manipulation. This is NOT a simple issue- sad but true. It's inconvenient, but there is no way around it. That's why it is so important to communicate clearly before choosing to have sex.

[NickInVideo]

Suppose my clear communication is considered pressuring, threats, or any other type of manipulation? Suppose "Hey, wanna f***?" is considered by her to be pressuring? Suppose taking her out on a date and paying for everything is construed as manipulation? Knowing with 100% certainty that your partner is truly consenting is impossible. I'm not a mind reader. Saying that I should know with all certainty is crazy, even more so when I could be thrown in prison. You must see that.

[samhradh_leannan]

I think it's something all parties involved just have to use their own logic about. If you took a girl out to dinner and she construed it as manipulation and accused you of rape, I'm pretty sure you'd have a very good case in court. People aren't completely insane.

[AliceWonders2013]

You're welcome. Glad I could clear things up for you :p .

[TheGodEmperorLeto]

Of course it exists... why wouldn't it? Doesn't matter if married or not, if one doesn't want to do it and says no, but the other forces themselves upon them, that is still rape...

[normalice]

Of course it's possible, but a little unfair. Sexual compatibility should be the point of major consideration before two people agree to never have sex with anyone else ever again. If one person wants to do something the other does not, they are not compatible.

It's unfair because it's usually the guy who wants to push the boundaries..

[samhradh_leannan]

Obviously sexual compatibility is ideal. But that never gives a person the right to force their partner to do something they are uncomfortable with, does it? What is "unfair" about the idea of marital rape exactly?

[normalice]

It's unfair in the context that one person within a couple will remain sexually frustrated for the rest of their life.

[normalice]

i'm not defending rape, by the way - I'm only explaining the circumstances under which it likely occurs. personally, those circumstances would not (and do not) drive me to the point of rape, but I have the tiniest shred of self-control. Not everyone does.

[samhradh_leannan]

However, neither a lack of self control nor the "unfairness" of sexual frustration justify rape in the least. So it's beside the point. It's a different sort of topic.

[normalice]

like I said, I'm not trying to justify it - just explaining it.

[samhradh_leannan]

There's still no reasonable explanation for why anyone would believe it is an acceptable thing to do to their partner.

[normalice]

i never said it was an acceptable thing. You seem to be confusing "acceptance" with "understanding." They are very different - you can understand something you completely disagree with, and you can accept something despite having no idea how it works. I understand marital rape - like how I understand murder, theft, ordinary rape, or any other crime. That doesn't mean I find these things acceptable: I simply know why they occur.

[samhradh_leannan]

That's fair enough. However, I think part of the problem I have with your "understanding" is the fact that there is obviously more going on in the situation than just sexual frustration and a lack of self control. Normal, socially healthy human beings are capable of resisting the urge to rape even in cases of extreme sexual frustration. I don't believe that marital rape actually happens BECAUSE of sexual incompatibility. So I don't really consider what you have to be a true understanding.

[normalice]

I didn't mean to imply that sexual incompatibility was the only cause - just the main one. Although it is true that 'cause' isn't really the right word. Perhaps "condition" is better suited:. marital rape is only possible under the condition of sexual incompatibility. i.e. if the girl wanted to have kids but the guy did not, so once when the girl is on top he is about to come he tells her to pull out but she doesn't that's marital rape, but only possible because the two disagreed on having kids.

[samhradh_leannan]

Obviously if two people want all the same things, rape isn't possible between them because they will both always consent to anything the other person wants to do. But rape, marital or otherwise, is CAUSED by cruelty, selfishness, and abnormal social functioning. Marital rape is no more the RESULT of sexual incompatibility than non-marital rape is. One could also argue that non-marital rape is can only occur under situations of sexual incompatibility, except in cases where age is involved. And at

[samhradh_leannan]

... that point, the matter of sexual compatibility becomes moot, because it doesn't justify anything. I just don't think marital rape is really any different in that regard. Since I don't think sexual incompatibility can provide ANY justification for any type whatsoever, I guess the focus on it just gets my back up a little. But I am not disagreeing with you. I guess we are just looking at this in slightly different ways, which is fine.

[normalice]

well, again, my goal here wasn't to justify it but to explain it. I don't think the causes are as relevant as the conditions under which it occurs, strictly because those conditions are supposed to be scrutinized before agreeing to marry someone in the first place. I only mean to suggest that people tend to undermine the importance of sexual compatibility before they agree to permanent monogamy... and curse the 500 character limit!

[samhradh_leannan]

I know, it's the worst, isn't it? But if you reload the page, you can leave 20 separate comments and drive people nuts like I do :P I agree. Ideally people will establish sexual compatibility before they decide to get married. But if that doesn't happen, it isn't one person's fault or the other's. I know you aren't TRYING to use that explanation to justify rape, but I still feel like you are somehow. I guess I just don't understand why we are even talking about it if it doesn't justify rape.

[normalice]

i like do demystify things, that's why I talk about it, anyway. "There is no explanation that is beyond your comprehension" is the only message I try to get across. I think it's important to not write off bad behavior as common 'evil.'

[Settingemstraight]

What. The. F***. I can't even... Geeze.

[0ddjob]

Rape is rape.

[justincider]

Rape is rape, no means no. I don't think the too drunk to consent type of rape should hold as much water in a marriage though. If you are both drunk, and you are married, and she doesn't say no, then that's a real gray area...

[samhradh_leannan]

I agree, I don't think that just because you were drunk you were necessarily raped. It's a tough subject, but especially when you are married, it doesn't seem like you should need explicit legal consent every you have sex. BUT if you are acting forceful when they are protesting in any way, or doing something that you have been told not to do in the past, then that should definitely be considered rape.

[diegoD]

the marraige contract is the written consent

[samhradh_leannan]

First of all, no, it isn't. While most people WANT to have sex with the person they marry, and that is the ideal situation, the marriage contract is not written consent to have sex. All the rules of consent that apply outside of marriage still apply inside of marriage. Second of all, I am not just talking about "sex" as a whole here. I am talking about specific individual acts that a person may or may not want to participate in.

[Konnour]

Marriage still doesn't equal owning your wife as a property

When you marry it's PRESUMED that you will communicate properly and that you'll consider the needs of each other, so if let's say one of you wants sex and the other one doesn't (or doesn't want it in the proposed specific way) - then why are you married anyway?

[Konnour]

Oh, wait.. Money! ..guess I answered my own question

[dwiller943]

Well no does mean no.

[Cottoncandydreams]

NO MEANS NO

[jacquesvol]

That guy raped his wife and he's a genuine lowlife, a piece of criminal trash.

[doctorwhofan23]

You have to concent any time you have sex.

[Magendoz]

it doesn't mean that you are married ... that you own this person !

[Dragan]

Need to be careful with rape in marriage. There are a lot of female manipulation. I'm against any violence, including violence in marriage. There are cases of rape in mariage, but there are a lot of manipulation and revenge of cheated wife.

[aky4226]

A guy raping or even thinking to rape his own wife is probably one of the sickest things a person can possibly think of

[Anonymous]

i would go with option B.its definetely rape if one person haven't agreed to do something,whether they are married or not

[Anonymous]

I believe in marital rape although I don't believe having sex with a drunk girl is rape unless she gives signs she doesn't want it or says to stop. In the case of this question it seems like her pain would be a sign to stop the sex act so it would be rape since he continued.

On a side note the guy sounds like a real creepy guy.

[samhradh_leannan]

I agree, I don't think that in that case it was rape specifically because she was drunk. If she had been drunk and they had had sex completely normally, there would have been no problem. But a. she showed signs of pain and b. she said no to anal sex in the past. That combined with the fact that she wasn't able to fully function totally points to rape for me.