Feminism is not a dirty word.

[Fantasygrl96]

Feminism means equality. It's true that some people have put a negative spin on it by boosting women up while tearing men down, but that's not what feminism truly is. I am a feminist, but all that means is that I think men and women should be equal in everything. I don't believe in society's perception of people. Men don't have to be masculine or buff or even into women. Women don't have to be small and dainty or into men. I am a tall, strong, ballsy, heterosexual woman. I like men, and they deserve to be treated with respect as humans, just like women do. Nobody should be looked down on for their religion, sex, nationality, race, sexual orientation or anything else. This is what being a feminist means to me. Stop making it a dirty word.

[RainbowFanGirl]

Feminism is a misused word. The radical feminists make all the other feminists look bad. When people hear the word feminist, they automatically think of the man-hating, radical ones, which is sad. Feminism is about equality of both genders. I hope that one day, every human, no matter what race, gender, ethnicity, sexuality, can all reach equilibrium. I long for the day that happens.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

Egalitarianism is what you are talking about. Feminism is only about advancing the rights of women. It seems like the right stance to take because we are coming from a society that was in favor of men, but it is a step too far. Think of it this way: a person is standing in a room, where left is chauvinist society, right is feminist, and middle is egalitarian. If the person wants to get into the middle, both the right and the middle are in the right direction. When he gets to the middle, however, he does not want to keep moving to the right, he wants to stop in the middle. That is the difference between feminism and equality. The end game of feminism is a matriarchal society. That's too far.

[RainbowFanGirl]

Oh I see.

[genuinlysensitive]

The thing is its the man hating ones that are running the movement... That is why they are equated to it.

[RainbowFanGirl]

I know.

[AdamThomas]

Heard it all before. Not all feminists are like that. That isn't real feminism. Look at the dictionary definition. Bla bla bla. It's professional feminists who turn it into a dirty word with the things they do. It's always feminists like yourself - a random woman on the internet with no influence whatsoever - who are the "true" feminists.

[ThisDudeHere]

Word for word of what I wanted to write dude.

[PT1911]

Im buying you a beer good sir

[CorruptedDocument]

Self criticism isn't something they're ever going to do... agreed on your point.

[Anonymous]

Feminists make it a dirty word by basing a lot of their arguments on outright lies and by essentially being a hate group in thought, word, and deed. That's why Feminism is a dirty word.

Just one example of lies: wage gap. Read this:
www.consad.com/.../...e%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

A brief excerpt from it, for those who won't click the link:
"Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers."

Or another, that men have a monopoly on being rapists. Once again, not true:
www.usatoday.com/.../
Key excerpt: In short, men are raped by women at nearly the same rate women are raped by men.

And so on. And so on. And so on.

Feminist agendas are based on lies, doctored statistics, and outright hate of men (eg, the founder of domestic violence shelters was threatened with violence for trying to offer services to men--even though 71% of domestic violence is perpetrated by women, and that men are bodily injured more than women in domestic violence; as of today, only about 1% of domestic abuse shelters service men).

Are there places where women are treated like trash? Yes. That behavior must stop. But those places aren't the US or similar Western countries.

Feminism is a lie. A giant, fucking hate-filled lie. Feminism is a dirty word--and it deserves that reputation.

[zell0is0my0name]

Dude, stop it. Feminism is not like that. Maybe some ladies who call themselves 'feminists' are like that but they aren't feminist. No true feminist considers them a 'feminist' they are just attention seekers. That's all. They just want a reaction from men and women. They live for it.

[muspelhem_5]

The only people that make it a dirty word are the feminists who hate on men. It's pretty hard to have convincing beef with someone arguing for women's rights and happiness.

I dared to disagree with my feminist friends in an argument; they turned on me, bullied me and dumped me as a friend. I was so pussywhipped that I even tried to reconcile after they had seriously triggered suicidal thoughts in me. No reply to my offers.

I have had lots of friends, but none have ever treated me that coldly.

It's the same with the endless columnists making fun of or generalizing or hating on guys. What are they but the female incarnation of the stupid sexist?

I also want a world where everyone is equal bla, bla, bla, and I think we can achieve it in terms of employment, public discourse, etc.

But we won't achieve it by men being shamed for being sexually attracted to women, or all men being called evil rapists, or creeps, or whatever.

And we won't achieve it by pretending men and women are biologically the same, or face the same challenges. I'm not talking about the stupid "men work, women keep house" cliché. I'm talking about real differences in other areas like sexual and natural selection, as well as whatever biological differences exist.

[Fantasygrl96]

You make a great point. Some women who call themselves feminists are radical man-haters. They are the ones, like your "friends" that give the rest of us a bad name.

[muspelhem_5]

Thank you. And much respect for fighting your fight :)

[Fantasygrl96]

You're welcome. Thank you.

[CorruptedDocument]

Misandry does exist and some people like taking a popular label to justify it.

[muspelhem_5]

@CorruptedDocument: Yup :)

[Nice_Guy_Last]

That's why I use the term "Egalitarian" to describe women who are fighting for equality. At the core, feminism is to women as chauvinism is to men. It's just that because we are coming from a society that has placed men at the top, we look at egalitarianism and feminism as a step in the right direction, just as a person standing on one side of the room would see the middle of the room and the far side of the room as the same direction. However, feminism is a step too far, and therefore is not the best stance in the effort for gender equality.

[muspelhem_5]

@Nice_Guy_Last:

I semi agree with your point. The main problem to me is the women taking it in the wrong direction. Any ism can be corrupted. The trouble with using "egalitarianism" is that it is very broad, and feminists ARE focused on equal rights for women, because most of them are women and few others are likely to fight for them with that amount of dedication. I would argue that their grudges, methods and results are often poorly chosen, but there you go.

I don't mind as long as they steer clear of misandry and bullying tactics, which seem to be a problem within the movement itself as well.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

Egalitarianism is broad in its scope, but the principle is simple and singular: equality for all. It encompasses many different schools of though (racial, gender, sexual preference, etc.) but it's goals are the same across those. Feminism has no place in an egalitarian society, nor does chauvinism. The second that everyone is equal, fighting for rights becomes fighting for privileges, privileges being traits that only one group can attain. Therefore, while egalitarians and feminists are fighting for much of the same things right now, when we attain an egalitarian society, feminists will continue to fight until it is a feminist, or matriarchal, society. Thus, feminism is not the right path to equal rights, only egalitarianism is.

[muspelhem_5]

@Nice_Guy_Last: Yeah, but you have to get real. Who is going to fight for that? All the rights women have gained, feminists have fought for. They didn't happen because of a general movement for equality, because for many people there is no personal urgency to the cause. It has little impact on their lives.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

Those people are going to be unmoved by the feminist movement until it begins to hurt them too. It's this dichotomous view of the world that leaves people so divided. It's black or white, red or blue, man or woman, right or left. When we take these diametrically opposed views, it polarizes people, causing division and hatred. Feminism has the same effect. Only bigots are opposed to equality, but men can be opposed to a group that only helps women because it inherently excludes them. Much in the same way that patriarchal society has inflamed many feminists and caused them to lash out against men. Your definition of feminism is misused. Feminism is ONLY about helping women. It doesn't care about men's rights, it, by definition, only cares about women.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

The people who are going to fight for that? I will. I want all people to be free, and I am a white, cisgendered, straight male. Historically, I have the most privilege, and the most to lose, but here I stand for equality, because if America can't be equal, then there is no chance for the world. I am not ready to accept failure.

[YourFutureEx]

Talking about words? LOL

They want their rights by changing the literary aspects of the society like changing the female to femme because it has male & women to womyn because on men. What would they get out of it?

As for 'male' and 'female', 'female' was later remodeled around the word 'male', so again this isn't entirely (or even mostly) wrong, but it prior to this there wasn't a shared etymological root; 'male' came from the old French 'malle', which itself came from a diminutive of the Latin 'Masculus'; whereas 'female' came from the Old French 'Femele', which came from the diminutive of the Latin 'Femina'.

Interestingly, the word ‘men’, meaning “to think” or “to have a cognitive mind”, was also gender neutral and connected to “man”, which meant “the thinker”. So we can see from that how “man” originally referred to all humans.

This thing is good to an extent like say 'sportsmen'. It sounds weird when a lady says that she's a sportsmen. So it's now rectified into 'sportsperson' which is good for the society.

That's why feminism fails because they are just trying to degrade the literal and logical aspects blindly. Calling oneself female and women doesn't sound poor and by changing these terms, they can't ameliorate the status of women.

[whatIsCreative]

ah yes. as all feminists will fight for equal jail time to men, more pay for non stem field jobs, force women into the stem field and make them feel like shit if they dont want to. delegitimize all of the women and minorities that are part of gamergate, use female sweatshop workers to print their "this is what a feminist looks like" t-shirts, scream and yell that all men are rapists and invent the hastag #killallmen, invent man-spreading and now someone has been arrested for it, constantly play the victim, lie and manipulate people to skew data in their favor (like how their is a wage gap), wonder why women are being paid less as a whole for doing less dangerous jobs that men are willing to do along with all of overtime men are willing to work that most women are not willing to do. and my favorite, the skinny shaming, why be happy for a woman that is naturally skinny and beautiful. no we should all berate her for being that way because it makes the hippos feel bad.
feminism has done more harm than good for all of the causes they *fight for.

*fight: meaning- have a bitch fit on twitter until enough people have created a victim complex for themselves that they feel they are being mistreated and need to do something about it.

feminism is a joke and is synonymous with man hating. you can throw as many dictionary definitions at me as you want

last thing. feminism from its name is already skewing all issues towards women. egalitarian is a much better lable if you are truly looking for one.

[Anonymous]

You (like every other feminist) can continually tell people that feminism is "for equality" but until the actions actually live up to the definition, feminism is a suppression group.

"Some people" don't put a negative spin on it... the ideology itself and the major contributors of that ideology do, and therefore ANYONE who follows that ideology and support those people are perpetuating that idea as well.

If you requite Solanas, Dworkins, etc. then you are supporting a hate group.
If you believe without question the lies and the false stats, you are part of the problem.
If you refuse to accept truth when it conflicts with those lies and stats, you are part of the problem.
If you allow without question, the constant demonizing of males in the media and society, but speak out over the simplest negative thing about females... you are part of the problem.

Every time I hear a feminist spew "Feminism is not against men, it's for equality" I ask them to find me ONE single reference to a feminist group helping men or support men. I have yet to receive any.
I can endless cases where people trying to support men's issues are shutdown or attacked by feminist.
I can list endless cases where feminist have tried to get laws and other nonsense passed to take away rights from men.

SO when you regurgitate your "doctrine" about being for equality... I expect you back it up or else take your bullshit and feed it to someone dumb enough to not open their eyes to the world around them.

[Fantasygrl96]

Your point seems to be, as I understand it, that by using the word "feminist" I am supporting those who misuse the word. You are saying that I'm just as bad as the people who mistreat men and are ignorant. Am I correct in my understanding? If so, I of course would disagree. Should I refuse to call myself a human because some humans have done despicable things? Of course not. I'm still a human, even if I don't support all that the human race has done. Likewise I am still a feminist, even though I don't support all that other feminists have done.

[Opinion Owner]

Interesting...

What parts of feminism do you support? I'm really curious since there is an endless list of horrible acts against men by feminist, but I have yet to see a single action which would in any way support the idea of equality. SO I am curious what is it that YOU particularly do to support the "feminism = equality" claim.

Being classed a human which is our species is not a "choice".
Being part of an ideology which has an endless list of hate filled acts towards half of the population going back before you were born, which you selectively choose to be part of, is much different. You actively saw all the evils this group was part of and chose to become part of it regardless, when you could (like MANY females have chosen to) have gone with supporting Egalitarianism which ACTUALLY supports both male and female issues EQUALLY!

So once again, what "wonderful" parts of feminism is it you support which are not done better by a less hateful group? I am sure this will be easy.

[Anpu23]

I am not uneducated on this subject, nor am I ignorant that many people feel that feminism equates to equality. The problem is that the most vocal leaders of the movement do NOT feel that way! It's easy to say feminism means__________ but when prominent leaders, writers and educators show that they do not mean that, it shoots the myth of out of the water. It's like saying I am a Marxist but I do not agree with Stalin, well as both are recognized as leaders of the communist movement it's hard from an outsiders perspective to separate the two. Same with feminism, when you search the term, or read some of the authors, or... you get it. It's hard to see things from your point of view.

[PT1911]

The Marx/Stalin analogy is perfect

Even though I fundamentally disagree with both lol

[notcreativethough]

Equality? Almost every single issue thrown in my face with the stamp of feminism has been highly selective of women's issues, often exaggerating them and ignoring the related issues present for men. This is understandable for a group called feminism, but don't pretend it's about equality when all it has achieved is the social benefit of women and the social detriment of men regardless of the previous gender balance, which is often misaligned with what feminists claim in the first place.

It's all just a dirty fucking power grab rife with double standards and hypocrisy. Fueled by ignorance at best, hatred and manipulation at worst. Feminism deserves its reputation of lies and misandry.

[Phoenix98]

It used to mean equality and it still does for places that actually need it like the middle east, but in regards to it here in the U. S ehh it's just a pain in the ass, to many extremists here use it as a excuse to act horrible and spread hatred and fear. Now I am not looking down upon or being angry towards the women who actually care about women's rights in places were it is needed. But for the extremists that use and abuse the title and group here in the U. S., they need to be taken care of and disowned.

But what both men and women must understand is that true equality will never and can never exist, but general basic equality can.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

That's because it doesn't mean equality. The end game of feminism is a matriarchal society. Fortunately, most so-called feminists are actually egalitarians who mislabel themselves.

[Phoenix98]

@Nice_Guy_Last mhmm.

[CorruptedDocument]

Nobody wants to admit that's what the endgame was and still is.

[YolaMoore]

Some feminists, like yourself understand the true meaning of the word- equality. However a vast percentage of "feminists" seem to stand for woman being better, more important etc. than men. It is not "us" (society) giving feminism a bad image- it's the people who claim to believe in it but are actually more of an anti-men movement.
It's excellent that you believe in equality- so do I. That's the right way to be a feminist. But really- is there any need to try to define a word that is already so controversial? Everyone has their own views and beliefs on this topic, some of which contribute to it being seen as a "dirty word", and at the end of the day, no one is going to change their point of view.

[AleDeEurope]

It's never been a dirty word to me, but the problem why many people think this lies inside your own movement. There are many so called feminists that just fight for women's superiority that this hurts the real feminism.
I support women in their fight for equality, 100% cause it's what they deserve, their right, but I do not support those women that only fight for the things that are against women, and forget about what hurt us men too, cause as a man, I feel insulted when you try to have "equality" and just fight for what it's convenient to you.

Right now, feminism can be compared to cops: there are millions of cops that are great cops and that truly defend the citizens, but the image that a small amount of cops show damages the rest of the cops, making people believe that they're all bad. The same happens with feminism: millions that fight for true equality, but a few that fight for women's superiority, and this damages the whole feminist movement.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

I think there is a mislabeling: feminism gets equated with egalitarianism because women's rights have been below the standards of men's rights, and if you are standing on the right, the middle and the left are going to be the same things: to the left. I think most "feminists" are actually egalitarians, but they identify with feminism because it is a more broadcasted view.

[martyfellow]

For most people today, yes, it's a dirty word. 100 years ago it was about equality, but contemporary feminism is mostly a corporate hustle, for privileged women to get even more power in whatever environment they are in.

[naturallywonderful]

This is summarized like this:

What women have to worry about: rape culture, not getting the job they want, street harassment, sexual harassment, sexual objectification in society, not being taken seriously, etc.

What men have to worry about: who's paying for the bill though?

Down vote all you want darlings but it's true.

[naturallywonderful]

Also I'd like to add that it's really easy to say that a group is being whiny when you've never spent a day in your life as a part of that group.

[CorruptedDocument]

And let's say all of that is true for the sake of argument... are women not guilty of aiding in any of those scenarios 100% of the time?

[CrayolaCupcake]

Uh, no, I am not guilty of aiding in pay differences. I did not ask to get paid 70 cents for every dollar a male coworker gets. I have not ever wanted to be sexually harassed. I always want to be taken seriously, unless I'm joking. Why in the world would you think we are aiding in those scenarios? You think women want to be raped?

[CorruptedDocument]

You seem to have a very narrow minded view on these issues, such as if a woman regrets sleeping with a man = rape, Idiotic statements making you look stupid and not be taken seriously, not having the same credentials as your male competition... oh wait women want equality of outcomes, not equality of opportunity.

If you can't take criticism, there is no point in arguing a point. Guys women do not argue rationally. You must see that they leap to emotional arguments and claim you're attacking them or all women if you raise a differing viewpoint.

[CorruptedDocument]

And from an economic point of view, lets say that women are paid less than men who have equal credentials and experience. If women are paid less and it's a well known norm, why are men employed, if I was an employer I'd employ the cheapest labor which is women from your argument.

[Octavion]

" it's really easy to say that a group is being whiny when you've never spent a day in your life as a part of that group."

You have no idea just how true that really is...

[idkwtftoputhere]

1. The wage gap is a myth; the percentage difference is from the AVERAGE earnings of men and women working full time which takes into account of other factors such as: type of job, maternity leaves, hours, etc.
Christina H Sommers, a renowned professer in gender studies and is known as a factual feminist
addresses this myth: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2073804
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w

[idkwtftoputhere]

What men have to worry about: who's paying for the bill though?"
Are you serious? Are you actually implying that's all that men have to worry about. That is FAR from the truth.
To vote, men have to go sign up for the draft in the United States saying they'll risk their lives for when/if a battle or war breaks out just to earn the right to vote, WHICH WESTERN WOMEN ALREADY HAVE.
- Men have little to no reproductive rights:
www.avoiceformen.com/.../
- a small percentage win child custody
- Due to societal expectations male abuse/rape often goes unreported and they only recently got the right to do so since many legal definitions of rape excluded the potential for men to be victims.
- men lack the right to bodily autonomy since millions of them get circumsized at birth

[idkwtftoputhere]

Are you honestly implying that men don't face street harrassment? Albeit not as much as women do concerning statistics but implying men aren't facing or worried over street harrassment is a blatant lie. Speaking, of blatant lies... implying men aren't objectified is also incorrect:
www.achilleseffect.com/.../
Males victims of statutory rape still have to pay child support:
www.avoiceformen.com/.../

You are the type of person that gives the movement/ideology of feminism the negative reputation it has because you preach equality and completely undermine men when trying to explain your stance as "equal"
Men and women have the same legal rights in Western countries, people not taking you seriously is not something that you can rely on feminism to change, it's a fault in your own character... not because you're a woman.

[Anonymous]

www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a10206-10-tips-for-dating-a-feminist

Guys, you are breaking the first rule. This isn't a conversation about feminism it's a sit down and shut up while they lecture you about feminism. It's funny seeing some of the same women that said that take was good are just shaming men left in right in this one. The irony of your take picture and first sentence is not lost on me. I loved what @Klara-Hitler said about how the only words that should be coming out of the mans mouth is "woof, woof"

You can't get respect if you REFUSE to reciprocate it. You can say you believe in respecting men but actions speak louder than words and a lot of the man shaming especially by@naturallywonderful is not what respect is. Believe me, some men try and respect women but there is 0 respect coming back to them from those feminists.

Shaming men=/=respect

[Fantasygrl96]

It's true that some feminists bring down men to boost women up. But that's not the kind of feminism I believe in. Men and women deserve equal respect. That is what I srand for.

[Fantasygrl96]

Stand*

[Anonymous]

Feminism is the advocacy of women's rights. By definition, anyways... Based on that definition, I don't have a problem with feminism. I do have a problem with those that are in power of the feminist movement. What's more, feminism has never been about equality for all. That would be egalitarian. Egalitarian: Of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and equal opportunities. Feminism has never fought for the rights of people like me. What do I mean by "people like me"? I mean, they have never, not once to my knowledge, actively fought for the rights of those of us that are hard of hearing.

[anon4122]

feminism has (at least in the US) gone the way of republicanism in that it has begun to let far too many of it's extremists have a much larger voice than any of it's moderates and so it is losing all credibility. I mean with all the talk about it I have seen online and heard in classes, Anita Sarkesian and Lina Dunham are the only modern feminist icons I can name. It's a sinking ship and the hull is split. The original ideas of equality are good and should be supported but the movement and title of feminism is done for.

[KAZ-2Y5]

I am a feminist who does not hate men take your fight somewhere else anti-feminists I am open to have a discussion but not an argument if you want to argue, argue with someone else. Sad that the radical feminists have to ruin the entire idea of feminism on this site if I so much as say I am a feminist, people start calling me ignorant before they even know what I believe in.

[CorruptedDocument]

Would be welcome on some of the points I make if you can actually give counter points.

[KAZ-2Y5]

What do you mean?

[CorruptedDocument]

I've made some points in this thread.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

I think there is a mislabeling problem feminists have. True feminism is to women as chauvinism is to men. Most feminists are actually just egalitarian, which is just wanting equality for everyone. It seems like feminism is for the same goals because society has generally been in favor of men, and from the perspective of one side, the middle and the far side are indistinguishable.

[CorruptedDocument]

How about the feminist who want to keep the special privileges women receive that men do not.

[KAZ-2Y5]

I guess you can call me an egalitarian because i do want equality but I call myself a feminist because I want equality for both sexes and yes @CorruptedDocument feminsim is equality for both sexes dictionary definitition included since most people in this site seem to assume the definition of feminism and not know what it means
fem·i·nism
ˈfeməˌnizəm/Submit
noun
the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

As for the special privileges part you are talking about misandry which is believing that women are superior to men.

[CorruptedDocument]

That is true, it is misandry, but I do see a lot of women around here agreeing with that stance. They want equality to males but they also want to enjoy their privileges that males don't share.

[KAZ-2Y5]

Then they are not true feminists

[Nice_Guy_Last]

Think of it this way: a feminist society is, for all intensive purposes, a matriarchal society, where women's rights have turned into women's privilege. It would be the opposite of a chauvinistic society, which is a patriarchal society, where men have male privilege. An egalitarian society is a society that treats all as equal, with no privilege, only rights.

[CorruptedDocument]

You're just restating the things I have already said.

[genuinlysensitive]

If you do not hate men, what have you done to stop those who do?

[KAZ-2Y5]

People have a right to their opinions and how they feel and a good 90% of girls who hate men were badly burned by one whether it be an ex-boyfriend or their father, but I remind the girls who I come across that not all guys are the same but I doubt I will change how they feel and it is going to take a good man for them to believe that not all guys are the same. Yes I am a feminist who is not a man hater this site seems to think we are low in numbers and I have to re-explain myself EVERY. FREAKING. TIME

[Not-Exactly]

Generally as with any human concept, principals or believe: There are 1) extremist and there is the 2) media misrepresentation. And they are both even spreading a vision that attracts more hate and does more damage among other people who do not have the full and correct picture.

For me, I do not agree with the core of Feminism but that is not the case here.

[itsallover]

People nowadays just think it's a terrible thing because a few of the extreme feminists seem to have spoiled people's perception of the whole movement.

[CorruptedDocument]

It's more than a few... but generally the more toxic people are, the more louder they are.

[Northeast106]

@Fantasygrl96 Why not just say your for equality, and stop trying to redefine a word that is controversial to being with. People on here waste so much time arguing about feminism. Feminism is a dirty word to many, just like national socialist or a communist is to some people. Likewise, try explaining to an anti-capitalist that capitalism is in fact a good system and they are misguided. It's just not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

If feminism means equality why don't feminists practice equality? The "negative spin" you say others have put on it is nothing more than observation of your group's hypocritical actions with regard to so called "equality."

"This is what being a feminist means to me." YOU ARE WRONG! Plain and simple. Simply saying the opposite over and over will not make it true.

[Goldie757]

If a feminist does not practice equality then they are not a true feminist.

[Opinion Owner]

So most if not all the movement is not a true feminist. I see.