'Rape culture' does NOT exist in the West: here's why!

[Anonymous]

Before I get into the details about this, I want to point out that I am paraphrasing most of this from Canada's greatest female journalist, Lauren Southern. Not only is she extremely beautiful and enthralling, she is also a true advocate of men's and women's rights.

Here is a video for her "coming out" as a non-Feminist :)

If Feminism is about equality, why do we not see equal representation of both genders issues and why don't we see Feminists complaining about benefits women have over men in certain situations.

Great points, all of which can be simply answered by: Because Feminism isn't about equality.

Video explaining how and "why" she got kicked off her Women's groups and FaceBook groups:

And finally, here is the video of her reporting on the Edmonton "slut walk". She states how 'Rape Culture' IN THE WEST is a complete and utter myth.

Make sure you watch each and every video before you write you're opinion, regardless of whether you believe in 'Rape Culture' or don't. I will know, believe me.

Thanks!

[Watermelonoma]

My personal view is that besides the military, which I believe has a rape subculture, the west generally doesn't have a rape culture. Here in Canada, you think if a woman gets raped, people wouldn't take it seriously? The problem is that people misinterpret the hateful comments on twitter after every story on a rape incident as "rape culture"... not understanding that to have a rape culture, you need to have the majority of the population take the side of the rapist, or at least be sympathetic to him? Is that happening in Canada? Sweden? Germany? No, it really isn't. If you want to talk about the U. S. though, how is it that in a rape culture, you have incidents that happened recently such as the one where the rolling stone magazine took a story about a campus rape, and pretty much took the girls side without any shred of evidence whatsoever, and we later find out she made up the whole damn thing, and the boys she accused were completely innocent? People generally lunge headfirst to take the side of the woman without any sort of evidence being revealed to the public. Now, i don't want to get into a discussion about what percentage of women lie about rape, because after looking into it myself, the truth is that no one really knows what the exact number is. What I am sure about however, is that women do lie from time to time, like men... so my usual stance on cases like this is to really reserve my judgement until a trial or some tangible evidence has been released which proves the victims case. I don't assume the victim is lying, nor do i assume they're telling the truth. I don't know either way, and thats the way i prefer to do things.

Now on the issue of feminism in general, i've written a take or two outlining a bit of my stance on it, but in short, I don't identify myself as a feminist today, and its not because i think men and women should not be equal. A lot of feminists don't really get peoples qualms, but it comes down to their interpretations of what injustices actually exist for women. For me, feminists have a tendency to overreach and overstretch the degree of inequality, which is why. I will always listen to feminists because i follow the philosophy of listening to all but following none... but i dont need to become one.

Just as you don't need to be a christian or religious to have a sense of morality, you also don't need to be a feminist to know how to treat a woman with dignity, fairness and respect

[myTake Owner]

Feminists use so many fallacies too, it's unreal.

Appeal to Emotion... Ad Hominem... Straw Man... No True Scotsman... Tu quoque.

I've gotten into some many debates with Feminists lately and it's all I get. "Only a small minority of Feminists are Misandrists, they're not real Feminists though because real Feminists support equal rights by advocating women's rights"... it's a joke. I will never be a Feminist.

[jacquesvol]

This is the biggest fallacy of all in the West: When Campus Rapists Don’t Think They’re Rapists www.newsweek.com/campus-rapists-and-semantics-297463

Using semantics to normalize rape.

[Watermelonoma]

@jacquesvol

even if we took that study fully, completely and utterly to heart, you're still dealing with a minority, not the majority. It's not "the culture" of the country if its not the majority... unless you think if you polled the country on their views on rape, the majority would say that its okay, or would be more sympathetic to the rapist than the victim. Until that happens, im not going to call my country, Canada a rape culture

[Watermelonoma]

@jacquesvol

tbh jacq, i can save you a lot of time here by simply saying that unless you've got stats in your quiver which reliably shows that the majority of not just your country, the USA, but the whole western world is sympathetic to rape and rapists, you aren't going to convince me of anything here today. I'm not just going to jump on the bandwagon and say i and everyone in the western world lives in a rape culture when people by and large aren't sympathetic to rapists. They don't deserve to be labelled as rape apologists, and i dont really plan on attributing whole cultures in the west with that label any time soon

[Watermelonoma]

sorry i mean your country, Belgium

[jacquesvol]

"you aren't going to convince me of anything here today."
What's stopping you?

[jacquesvol]

Sorry, but Belgium has no funds left for scientific research at this moment. (Aftermath of the 2008 crisis) Thus I might find a paper about 120 students or so but not much more, no big scale surveys.
I know the mentality here and it isn't very different from other western countries.

" a story about a campus rape, and pretty much took the girls side without any shred of evidence whatsoever, and..."... made big money with it, then later made big money again, trashing the girls as liars. That's how tabloids work. That's why you won't see me quote tabloids.

[Watermelonoma]

@jacquesvol

I told you whats stopping me already... a lack of actual evidence which proves that the majority of people in the western world is pro/sympathetic towards rape. Why should i label the western world as living in a rape culture without such evidence?

[jacquesvol]

Concerning acceptance of rape in the west, it goes with disbelieving or putting the fault with the victims. Just look around on this site: every discussion about rape as societal fact ends with putting the fault with feminists, women or liberals.

[Watermelonoma]

@jacquesvol

again, prove that this is a majority view of the country. You're basically revisiting stuff i've already argued here. As i've said, people are quick to project that because some people on twitter, let alone a site like GaG which attracts the the most dejected people of society, attack the victim, that this is how the majority of the population acts. I mean why on earth would anyone use discussions that happen on here to give you an accurate picture of what our whole societies views are on rape? Prove to me that the majority of the population, (millions of people we're talking about here) are victim blamers

[myTake Owner]

@Jacquesvol

I'm sick and tired of your slippery slope fallacies!

[Watermelonoma]

also, i don't consider people having simple disbelief before evidence is actually put forward as a sign we live in a rape culture. Disbelief is simply not coming forward and saying "i believe what he/she has said, even though i've seen no evidence of what he/she said actually being true" Disbelief is often misconstrued for simply having some objectivity. A person who doesn't immediately take the side of the accuser is often accused of perpetuating a rape culture, when in reality they simply treat rape like every other case... wherein the accused is innocent until proven guilty. This reigns true for pretty much every legal case on the books, except rape. Rape is one of the few instances I've seen where the accused can be immediately seen as guilty until proven innocent.

[jacquesvol]

Take owner, I don't use a fallacy
TYI, a slippery slope is a supposition (IF) +a projection (THEN). Show where I wrote it.

[myTake Owner]

@jacquesvol "In logic and critical thinking, a slippery slope is a logical device, but it is usually known under its fallacious form, in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any rational argument or demonstrable mechanism for the inevitability of the event in question" It doesn't need "if" and "then" you pleb.

[abundantlyrich]

Ok i just upvoted you.

[Watermelonoma]

@abundantlyrich

hah, thanks. It's nice to see that some women are still quite sensible on these issues

[jacquesvol]

@watermelonoma

Hos many years did it take before people believed lnuit girls about the rapes by Belgian priest Eric Dejaegher? Before he weng to jail? Of course they're 'only' Inuit girls in Nunavik...

[Watermelonoma]

@jacquesvol

jacq... proof of what im asking for is all i care about when it comes to this question. If you dont have that atm, you're just wasting your time honestly. I'm not budging one inch from my position on this without the proof

[jacquesvol]

Take owner, instead of BSing about ebil feminists, take these ebil feminists on when and where you say you find them.

[Rainie_]

I don't see why it has to be called a rape "culture" though. Rape/sexual assault happens in every country, every society. To males and to females, done by males and females. But can't deny, the perpetrator is majority of the time male.
If you actually look up the word feminism it does say "Feminism is a range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment." Whatever some other radical (so called) feminists say, this is the true definition, not attempting to become superior to the males. Just like how radical muslims does not = all muslims.
Now supporting feminism doesn't mean we just reject men's issues all together. Just like MLK preached equality for black people, doesn't mean he ignore hispanic/native American people.

I do agree feminism isn't much needed in the west as much as it used to be, but there are still a few more small things that could be done for a completely equal society, especially changing a few attitudes. If I compare Sweden (who has the smallest gender gap in the world) to UK though (have lived in both) I have to say that it is definitely some things UK can still work on like making stay-at-home dads normal for example, and not something that makes them feminine and laughed at. To me it was really refreshing to see a group of men taking their babies for a walk or a picnic in the park without anyone saying anything bad about it. Never ever seen that in the UK ever and when I told my male friends in the UK about what I saw in Sweden they just cracked up and said Swedish guys are fags for doing what they do... I do have a problem with the over the top Swedish feminists whom are still complaining when there is nothing left to complain about though. 😐 Honestly guys, please book a flight ticket to Pakistan.

[genuinlysensitive]

You also can't deny that a majority of men don't rape.

[-No0ne-]

@jacquesvol The feds used the following as the definition of rape until about 2013, I believe, "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will".

So what if the numbers from RAINN (2006-2012), which you linked to, included the 23+~48% of the sex crimes attributed to female perpetrators? I hope you realize that the 2 rapists referenced in the chart would drop to less than 1.

So a potential disparity exists. Men commit these crimes in the hundreds of thousands and at least tens of thousands of them are convicted. Women are quite likely offending at something approaching the same rate and only thousands of them are convicted. And when women are convicted this does not always occur, but it IS the more likely outcome: www.thedailybeast.com/.../...-double-standard.html

=>"In a study of 17,337 survivors of childhood sexual abuse, 23% had a female-only perpetrator and 22% had both male and female perpetrators."[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15894146]
=> The 2000 AAUW data indicate that 57.2 percent of all students report a male offender and 42.4 percent a female offender with the Cameron et al. study reporting nearly identical proportions as the 2000 AAUW data (57% male offenders vs. 43% female offenders)[www2.ed.gov/.../report.pdf]

I have yet to see the public media outcry, by feminists, that female sex crime defendants should be denied their "weaker sex" protections; that the rights of the victims should be as powerful with a female defendant as they are with a male one.

This would be a VERY clear stance regarding equality and the protection of (predominantly) children, without mentioning men at all. Yet it does not happen. No marches, no protests, no write-in campaigns; no commercials.. nothing... because it is all about equality.

[jacquesvol]

"What if the 23+~48% of the sex crimes attributed to female perpetrators" is a MRA claim that has to be substantiated. IF thus.
" Women are quite likely offending at something approaching the same rate and only thousands of them are convicted."
This question is about rape, NOT about adultery or shoplifting nail polish.
Another claim that has to be substantiated. "quite likely."

[-No0ne-]

@jacquesvol I think my text was clear. I used phrases like "quite likely" and "what if" on purpose because there is still a lot of work to be done in researching the entire problem to ensure accurate results. However, the numbers do show that women do rape - not one single study done, not even the DoJs 1994-1998 study of sex offenders said zero, only very low.

And you are right, the question was about rape, and I did not forget that for a moment. My responses and numbers are rape related responses and numbers.

It is interesting, to me, how you are picking apart the edges of what I said but not talking about the real issue - women rape too.

It was not so long ago that the political and feminist mantra regarding sex crimes was, "... if only one child is saved it is worth it." With phrases like that one we became determined (in the US) to ensure that everyone of these "disgusting, perverted men" were locked up, branded and vilified, for life, even if they were only six years old.

...

[-No0ne-]

...

So I challenge feminists to take up the gauntlet of equality and to stand against women who are hurting children and men in a sexual way and your response is to argue that these are more unsubstantiated claims.

The thing that has never gone away is that women do it too. No matter if it is 22% or 48%, even if it was to be shown it was only two women, their gender should not make what they did OK.

I ask you to enlighten the throngs who still dwell in the darkness, like myself, as to the reason (s) behind excusing and ignoring the victims of, and the behaviors of, female sexual offenders?

[jacquesvol]

Only the Daily Beast link works and the author limits himself to statutory rape. Not very convincing.
But I quote:
"While Suzanne Goldberg, who teaches sexuality and gender law at Columbia Law School, acknowledged that “every case has to be dealt with individually,” she said she believes “a state would be inclined to punish young men more harshly than young women because young men are often seen as aggressors in adolescent sexual contact.”
-----
Who wonders, knowing what goes on in the world?

[jacquesvol]

@-No0ne- Only the Daily Beast link works and the author limits himself to a case of statutory rape and some philosophy about what he considers a potential problem. (without mentioning stats sources.)
It seems you're extrapolating very broadly. :) Thus yes, it *could* happen that a guy faced more serious consequences than a girl for the same. in my opinion that's due to guys being considered more aggressive towards girls than girls towards guys by lawmakers. Who wonders?

[-No0ne-]

@jacquesvol The links do work, sort of - click on the link and, when the page fails to load, remove the last character "]" and press the Enter key. In the name of openness I would like to inform you that the first link is to a synopsis of the article, not the article itself. The stats I referenced can be found in the article at the third link.

Any research on the internet for sex crime convictions will soon reveal that there is a long list of men and boys with harsh convictions and women and girls with comparatively short sentences and, of course, exceptions on both sides. Admittedly this kind of research is little more than anecdotal.

I share your opinion, "{it's} due to guys being considered more aggressive towards girls than girls towards guys by lawmakers". That only supports what I have stated - feminists are not protesting the affect of this stereotype on sentencing. There is talk now that there is no need to imprison women, ever, nothing like this is said about men.

...

[-No0ne-]

...

Here is one argument for re-examining male incarceration: sex offenses.

"Compared to non-sex offenders released from State prisons, released sex offenders were 4 times more likely
to be rearrested for a sex crime. Within the first 3 years following their release from prison in 1994, 5.3% (517
of the 9,691) of released sex offenders were rearrested for a sex crime. The rate for the 262,420 released non-sex offenders was lower, 1.3% (3,328 of 262,420)."
-- DoJ: Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994
-- https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsorp94.pdf pg 1, middle column, 3rd paragraph.

Part of the above paragraph is VERY important to politicians looking to get re-elected, "...4 times more likely...", while they ignore the much larger issue - it seems prison may be rapist factories.
No one is asking for an investigation into the issue of why 87% of the sex crime arrests committed by the felons in the study were committed by previously non-sex offending felons.

3,328 eh, so what. 517? We should kill'em!

[-No0ne-]

No one is asking for an investigation into the issue of why 87% of the sex crime arrests committed by the felons in the study were committed by previously non-sex offending felons.

Should have read like this:
No one is asking for an investigation into the issue of why 87% of the sex crime arrests for the felons in the study were of previously non-sex offending felons.

[BaileyisDarcy]

I'm supposed to be doing homework right now, so can't watch the videos.

But will comment regardless because I'm a bitch like that.

Rape is just a shit thing altogether. I don't care if it's happened to a woman, to a man, to a dog or a fucking fish. It's a shit thing that can happen to anyone regardless of gender, age or race (or even species).
The people who reduce rape to a simple joke are just insensitive bastards who deserve a punch in whatever area they find most sensitive.
The people who fake sympathise but don't really care should be slapped.
And the people who have been through it need a really big hug (or whatever they're comfortable with to make them feel better) and a cookie. Because everyone loves cookies. Usually anyway. If not a cookie then whatever they like.

The people who commit these acts. Well. I so wish Australia still had the electric chair. I really do. Rapists who are proven to be liable to repeat the offense along with murderers and the like deserve that chair. Plus it's stop us taxpayers (not that I am one yet but still) from having to pay for these sickos to be treated better than our elders in their nursing homes.

I don't know if rape culture exists in the west. I don't know where it does and doesn't exist. I don't care. Because it shouldn't exist anywhere. Everyone should be able to feel safe. Regardless of gender, or age, or race or wealth. Everyone.

Even if safety really is just a big illusion. In this one part of a larger whole. We should feel safe from being violated in such a terrible way.

That's my point of view. Love it or hate it, it doesn't bother me because I am not changing my mind or shifting my stance on this.

[SonicDare]

How do you feel about those who frame men for rape? Do they deserve the electric chair (in Australia) also? I'd say more so myself.

[BaileyisDarcy]

@SonicDare

Of course not. They deserve prison time or something but not the electric chair. All they've done is lie. Yes they can ruin a persons life with that lie but you can with plenty of other lies also and nobody says they deserve death.

You don't deserve death by lying. That's not how it works.

As a kid if I lied I would get a smack on the bottom and an hours time out. If I did something wrong I'd get more than one smack and have my books and games taken off me for a week or over, depending on what I did.

If we start taking people out of the equation simply for opening their mouth, then the nation will begin tunning on fear rather than peace.

[BaileyisDarcy]

*running

[myTake Owner]

" All they've done is lie." What an understatement. On most occasions they've screwed up the ENTIRE life of whomever they've deceived.

"You don't deserve death by lying" --- for lying + fucking someone's life up? hmmmmm...

[BaileyisDarcy]

No all they did was lie. It was people believing that lie that fucked the persons life up. It's not the liar who should be held accountable. Yes they should get in trouble but it's on society's head for believing the proven liar and not the evidence that states quite clearly that the guy is innocent.

The liar shouldn't be killed simply punished. Society just needs to have more faith in the justice system. And the justice system needs to stop fucking up and make that possible.

[myTake Owner]

Fuck me you're stupid.

[LuckyLittleLucy]

The videos won't work! But I'd like to share my opinion on rape culture anyway...
I get the points you're trying to make and I agree, we should be advocates for equal rights for men and women. Why?
Because men get raped and then ridiculed for it. 40% of *reported* domestic abuse is suffered by men. One true story tells the tale of a man going to a support group for domestic abuse and being laughed and ridiculed out of it by the other- all female- victims!
It's horrible! There's inequality on both sides because of society's double standards.
There were around 2500 rapes of women last year in London- 25% of those on minors.
But there were also over 1000 rapes of men in London last year, and 50% of those victims were minors.
We don't need to say "don't rape girls" we need to say "don't rape". Men get raped, women get raped, men can be rapists, women can be rapists*.
I wouldn't say there is a rape culture, it's just so taboo and so full of victim shaming it's ridiculous and there's little/no for victims of these violent crimes.
I'd like to call myself a feminist- a person that fights for equal rights of both sexes, in a fair and unbiased way. However, this word has taken on a totally new meaning so I'm reluctant to brand myself as that, when my meaning and the term's general meaning are so far apart these days.
*according to the law rape is penile penetration, so technically women cannot be rapists, but you see what I mean.

[RandomUsername3464]

Thank you so much for this post. There is a girl on here that spams the same paragraph every time - and one line that stands out to me is 'women not loving men does not mean that men get domestically abused'. The discourse needs to change, and people like you are the first step in changing it.

[zagor]

Rape of adult men is pretty rare outside of prison/jail situations.

[LuckyLittleLucy]

@zagor you're probably right, but it still happens and I just felt like it needed to be said because a lot of people just assume rape only happens to women... (And I'm not sure but I think that statistic is not including those in prisons...)

[SonicDare]

NO it's not! A man can be convicted of raping a women if he inserts an object in her vagina.

[SonicDare]

@zagor No, it actually isn't. Go to the FBI site.

[LuckyLittleLucy]

I'm just telling you what the police tells me. If it was a different form of penetration, I think it depends where you live...

[MeltedCheese89]

I'm glad I watched that first video, and while I agree with most of what she brings up, I feel that one can still be a feminist and support all of those issues. I do believe that it's an injustice that so many men die from suicide and our culture has so little sympathy for men who are harassed or raped. These are definitely issues that should receive more attention and promotion within the feminist movement.

However, I don't feel that just because the feminism movement at large focuses much more on issues relating to women means that you have to break off from the movement in order to promote issues related to men. Right now, the feminist movement is the closest thing to a popular school of thought that is advocating for gender equality and trying to challenge the root evil at hand here: the gender binary that dictates all men act one way and all women act another way.

That said, I do believe that feminism's nearly exclusive focus on the rights of women prevent it from being as accessible of a movement as it could be. The rights of women are extremely important and, I would argue, are more frequently disregarded than the rights of men, but that does not mean that gender equality can only be achieved through elevating women to the status of men.

[Fortres]

That first quote is nonsense. How is it people only see what they want to see? Doesn't that feel a little too convenient? The answers are so obvious it's silly.
Question one: If feminism is about equality, why do we not see equal representation of both genders[`] issues[?]"
Although feminism is about procuring equality for all, feminism specifically addresses women's issues because it's primary concern is about the historically repressed, stripped of rights, and treated like property group of human beings that have been, through the ages, trained and cultured to express traits of femininity. Hence the name. While there are many wrongs in the world, feminism hopes to start by righting these ones, and proceed from there.
Question two: "[W]hy don't we see Feminists complaining about benefits women have over men in certain situations?"
Women live in a world in which it is highly advantageous to be, amongst other classes, male. Because the goal of Feminism is to improve the conditions of women, to reclaim, for example, the status granted by the Declaration of Independence to men, and extend it to all people, as is only right, then the starting point of this process does not involve forfeiture of what benefits they do have, but rather, to strike at the most egregious wrongs, and go from there. While you will occasionally hear protests against conditions of inequality that in some ways benefit women, a more substantial champion of the cause would certainly be one that is detrimental entirely. Thus, women move forward in their lofty goal of equality, not back.

[Anonymous]

Here is the real culture: #1: Rape by and large is committed by a very SMALL segment of damaged individuals (psychotics, sociopaths, fetishists), the same like major crimes are committed by a small percentage of recidivists (repeat offenders who are convicted). #2: The second real "rape" culture is the behavior exhibited by me some years ago when a female friend had taken some medications that knocked her out worse than she had anticipated, and myself and 3 other guys witnessed this medical reaction. One of the other three guys thought it would be cool to rape her, and the body language of the other two was that they wouldn't interfere. I said in no uncertain terms: "All three of you will be charged with rape because I am now calling the police to put this BS to an end - she is an individual whose body belongs to her and you are all pigs if you think otherwise." They abruptly left the apartment, and when I was sure they had actually left, I locked her door after leaving her a note of the basic rundown of what had happened. I AM THE REAL RAPE CULTURE.

[DFTgirl]

I think feminism is definitely about equality, I mean I'm pretty sure that's in the definition. Just because some people who claim to be feminists try to make it not about equality doesn't mean you can tar all feminists with the same brush.
If any feminists tell you that men's issues are less important then they are not feminists. Full stop. Not a very difficult concept to get your head around.
Also since i'm in the library and can't watch the videos, I have a question. If there is no rape culture (ie. a culture in which rape happens) why are there still rapes in the West?

[myTake Owner]

"I think feminism is definitely about equality, I mean I'm pretty sure that's in the definition" HAHA!

Go read the definition of Racism...

Some people still think that PoC can't be racist and that reverse of sexism/racism/whatever-ism can't exist.

You know what a culture is right?

'Rape Culture', according to Feminist theory, is "a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality".

Rape is NOT "normalised" in the WEST. If you rape, you go to jail and spend the rest of your life in hell on Earth.

However, rape IS "normalised" in the East because if a woman chooses to oppose a planned marriage, she is raped and killed. Often rape goes unpunished.

That's a culture.

If Feminism was truly for equality, then I would hear about Men's hardships in my sociology courses on Feminism... but I don't.

[myTake Owner]

Please do watch the videos when you can.

[DFTgirl]

Well anyone who thinks that PoC can't be racist needs to get an education, everyone can be racist, you just have to discriminate based on race.

I think we must be working off a different dictionary, as far as I have been taught feminism is the fight for gender equality. Could you let me know what dictionary you are using?

I do know what a culture is, I do think rape is fairly pervasive even in western society (obviously much lest than in the east). I mean how often in a hollywood film do you actually see either gender give actual obivous consent in a sex scene. They don't, mostly it just happens which propagates the false view that sex doesn't require obvious consent.

I agree that rape is discouraged by law. I also think that that might be to some extent conterbalanced with reporting of rape also being discouraged by society.

Lastly I don't know what sociology courses you are taking but they sound awful. Are you american? The American education system is known for being skewed.

[DFTgirl]

I'm a true feminist, I think all gender imbalances are bad no matter which gender you are. That is my definition of feminism and it is the definition every other feminist male or female that I have ever met has given me. I'm sorry you have met such awful people who are going against what I and all other feminists fight for: gender equality.

[myTake Owner]

OK, there are a few things I'm going to address in your responses:

1 - "I think we must be working off a different dictionary, as far as I have been taught feminism is the fight for gender equality. Could you let me know what dictionary you are using?" lmgtfy.com/?q=Define+Feminism+Oxford+Dictionary+ ... Surely we are using the same.

When you "Advocate" something you're indeed "Elevating" ... so based on that, the definition states that you're "Elevating" women's rights without "Advocating" men's rights... in turn you are not acknowledging men's issues.

2 - " I mean how often in a hollywood film do you actually see either gender give actual obivous consent in a sex scene. They don't, mostly it just happens which propagates the false view that sex doesn't require obvious consent." -- This literally made me laugh. I don't think I've ever asked a girl "Can I have sex with you, is that alright, do I have your consent?" ... I've always assumed consent was reached when we involved ourselves in sexual activity...

[myTake Owner]

... Do you ask your partner/BF to ask for sex?

3 - "Lastly I don't know what sociology courses you are taking but they sound awful. Are you american? The American education system is known for being skewed. " Ad Hominem. I'm not American.

4 - "I'm a true feminist, I think all gender imbalances are bad no matter which gender you are. That is my definition of feminism and it is the definition every other feminist male or female that I have ever met has given me." You're an Egalitarian by my book. You satisfy it's own definition. Like I've pointed out, the definition of Feminism does NOT include men.

[jacquesvol]

In the USA, if you rape, you do nearly never go to jail and spend the rest of your life like other guys.
rainn.org/.../Jailed-rapists%20December%202014.jpg

rainn.org/.../reporting-rates

[DFTgirl]

It definitely says on the grounds of equality to men. Equality to men. I don't see how that can be skewed to mean more important than men. Like it definitely says equal to men.

Also you surely don't just go for it when you have sex? I mean everyone in a thoughtful functioning relationship has some way of asking whether the other person is up for it. Be it certain looks and gestures or a cheeky "you wanna..." or something. You don't just randomly start having sex like i see all the time in films. And then when you're going there is some sort of careful attention to each other a "how do you like it when I do this?" or communicating that you are particularly enjoying something with "YES" or "more". I don't know most dysfunctional sex I have seen in my experience comes from not communicating, because people don't think they have to.

I don't see how elevating women's rights leads to dismissing men's rights? Could you clarify? Does elevating animal rights dismiss human rights?

[myTake Owner]

OK give me a link to a DEFINITION source which EXPLICITLY states that Feminism supports both the rights and freedoms of women AND men. I have done so, yet it doesn't state it.

"Also you surely don't just go for it when you have sex? I mean everyone in a thoughtful functioning relationship has some way of asking whether the other person is up for it." I just go for it if I'm horny and want sex. If she says no, or shows me any negative body language I stop immediately. This is a relatively normal procedure.

"You don't just randomly start having sex like i see all the time in films" Don't compare films to real life, then you'll have less issues. I do just randomly have sex with my girlfriend or a girl I'm dating. I don't ask whether they want to have sex.

"I don't know most dysfunctional sex I have seen in my experience comes from not communicating, because people don't think they have to. " Communicating that you want sex and communicating what you want during sex are TWO VERY DIFFERENT..

[DFTgirl]

Yes I do ask my partner before sex, always.

I'm sorry you've got such a strange sociology course, maybe the emphasis is on the women because I guess women had less rights than men in history which is how the movement started. Today I think you'll find it's about tying up the loose ends from the remnants of the old ways.

I am and egalitarian as well as a feminist yes. But you cannot be an egalitarian without being a feminist.

[DFTgirl]

Erm I think you should consider asking first rather than just going for it and seeing if she says no. I mean think of the tea metaphor. You don't just randomly give people tea. You ask if they want tea first and if they say yes then you give them tea.

[myTake Owner]

... THINGS. You're confusing yourself.

"I don't see how elevating women's rights leads to dismissing men's rights? Could you clarify? Does elevating animal rights dismiss human rights?"

You can see how detrimental elevating some women's rights is to men by simply looking at the Equal Pay act (Myth). Feminists want women to be paid the same amount than men even though 1) tend to work longer hours 2) tend to work in more dangerous professions 3) tend to choose more highly paid jobs 4) other.

Your arguments reak of True Scotsman fallacies LOL

[DFTgirl]

No I don't see anywhere people saying women should be paid the same as men for less work, just that they should be paid the same as men for the same work. Is that bad?

[myTake Owner]

Again a man working at the same level as a woman will be paid more because he works longer ours...

Feminists avoid this.

[DFTgirl]

No he should be paid more if works more hours, he should be paid the same if he works the same hours. Can you find the exact clause where it says they should be paid the same even if the man is working more hours?

[myTake Owner]

I can't be assed to search Google, so I'm going to hand you over to my good friend Sargon of Akkad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T09Bx6xoHSQ

[DFTgirl]

Library, so I can't watch youtube. I don't think that clause exists, but if it does please copy and paste it for me and I will eat my words :)

[myTake Owner]

You'll have to wait till dinner then.

[DFTgirl]

No problem, I have dance class in a bit anyway and a huge workload for my pure maths module. I look forward to seeing the exact clause you speak of from the equality act. Please reference it and copy and paste it word for word :)

[myTake Owner]

The clause is found in Sargon of Akkad's video. There will be no need to paraphrase it.

Go do your Maths then.

[DFTgirl]

God that video is half an hour long, I don't have time for that. Please just copy and paste the exact words from the equal pay act.

[myTake Owner]

You have time to watch it.

You don't even need to look at the pictures, so you can do your maths whilst listening to it... that's what I do. I'm out.

[DFTgirl]

So you can't find the clause, if it's so quick can't you just find it for me and write it down? Why is that so hard?

[myTake Owner]

I believe Sargon of Akkad can explain it far more thoroughly and eloquently than I ever could, that's why. This conversation is over until you have watched and appreciated the video :)

[DFTgirl]

Ok so there is no exact clause that you can copy and paste, you need a youtube video done by someone else to explain it. So it probably isn't in the equality act, otherwise you would be able to copy and paste it.

[myTake Owner]

It is an "exact clause", you just need to watch the video in order to full understand it. If I explained it I'm afraid I might miss bits and confuse you... if you watch the video you'll be able to realise it to its fullest extent.

Now, good day.

[DFTgirl]

Well then just copy and past it, how is that so hard?

[myTake Owner]

As hard as it is to post an eloquent video of the matter.

When you've got the time, which I'm sure you do, look at the video. I don't owe you anything.

if you continue to harrass me, I will block you.

[DFTgirl]

Ok I'll stop asking you to prove anything without a half an hour convoluted video on the subject. Sorry for being such a pain, it's just i like hard facts, and no i don't have time to watch the video and it really shouldn't take half an hour to explain one very simple clause. I hope you'll forgive me for pressing you for a copy and pasted sentence, I just thought it would be really easy way for you to prove me wrong. I hope one day you have a daughter :)

[myTake Owner]

The vieo IS hard fact. It has many references/sources and it's extremely well edited.

Anyway, I can't be assed to talk to you any longer. Blocked.

[Curmudgeon]

Spot on. The Leftist femi (commu) nist refusal to acknowledge the utter barbarism toward women in the Islamic World, and their willingness to fabricate moral equivalence in the Western World, and the USA in particular, is sadly typical.

It is also reminiscent of their Leftist refusal to acknowledge the horrors of communism and to fabricate Western, and specifically American, moral equivalence:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

[GreatnessPersonified]

Interesting.
I considered feminism about women's rights, not men's rights. I never considered it about equality.

[DFTgirl]

It is about equality! I promise! cross my heart and hope to die :)

[GreatnessPersonified]

@DFTgirl yeah, for women.

[DFTgirl]

For everyone I swear to god, although anyone I say this to gets angry and blocks me because they don't seem to want to hear it :(

[myTake Owner]

@DFTgirl

Your No true Scotsman fallacies won't work here, that's why. Now gerroff!

[DFTgirl]

Sorry, you refused to have a reasonable conversation with me, i'm not being emotional or anything, I'm just stating fact. If you can't actually convince me otherwise then that is a flaw with your way of thinking, I'm a scientist I love eloquent simple proof, give me one.

[myTake Owner]

We had a perfectly "reasonable" discussion. You just chose to harrass me into giving you a clause which I did!!

You're a mathmatician from what you've told me.

Anyway, I'm done OK, leave me alone.

[DFTgirl]

I'll leave because you obviously won't give me a true reasonable argument any time soon, but can I just say that sticking your fingers in your ears and saying lalalalala i dont want to listen to you if you don't agree with me is not going to work in life. People have different opinions, discussing them is good, listen and speak, don't run away!

[jacquesvol]

@DFTgirl

I quote: "you aren't going to convince me of anything here today."

[GreatnessPersonified]

@DFTgirl Well, maybe you are a new kind of feminist, but from what I understand from the 60's, it was about women getting equal rights.

[Kirah]

@DFTgirl

Unfortunately, feminism has never done anything for men. Ergo, it's not about equality.

Calling man-hating feminists "not actually feminists" does not take away from the fact that feminism as a whole has never actually done anything for men. I never see any feminists fighting for male victims of rape or domestic violence.

There is no "rape culture", but there is certainly a false accusation culture.

[DFTgirl]

@Kirah So there's no rape culture and women in the West don't get raped. We're just sluts asking for it.

[myTake Owner]

@DFTgirl THAT'S NOT A CULTURE!!

A culture is where rape is praised and the media actively condone rape.

Rape is entirely criminalised. It is almost as bad as murder in some cases!!

If you rape, you go to jail for a long time... there is NO rape culture.

[Kirah]

@DFTGirl women do get raped, but not necessarily that much more than men.

And that's what irks me. All of these people are asking for more attention to female rape victims, but male rape victims don't even get as much as a passing glance.

[DFTgirl]

@Kirah I give a shit about rape victims, male and female. I am one myself.

[DFTgirl]

Personally I believe that the man who raped me did it because he thought he could get away with it because he had done it to other girls before and the culture meant they were never able to speak up about it. I live in the West. I get given shit for owning up to having been raped. I would say that's a rape culture.

[DFTgirl]

So come on tell me I'm a slut and I deserved it all you troll men and women on here :) @Kirah

[myTake Owner]

That's still not a culture you absolute fruit loop.

You need to educate yourself.

[Kirah]

@DFTgirl maybe you should stop whining about people being antagonistic when you intentionally provoke antagonism yourself.

[DFTgirl]

@Kirah Look I've just had a really shit day and I don't give a fuck about all of you people discussing whether there is a rape culture when none of you have any experience of it. I'm not going to bother arguing with you all. I'm going to let you think what you think and we can all agree to disagree.

[DFTgirl]

I've never owned up to that happening to me on the internet before and after I pressed send I panicked and expected awful backlash about how I'm probably a slag. I'm probably going to have to delete my account now to avoid the crap I'll get from people.

[Kirah]

@DFTgirl who says I've never experienced the effects of rape? My boyfriend was sexually assaulted, but of course he wasn't taken seriously because he's male. He still suffers because of it. Keep your passive-aggressive conclusions to yourself before you judge.

[DFTgirl]

@Kirah I am so sorry for your boyfriend, I would take him seriously obviously. Anyone in my position would. There are horrible people out there all the time saying rape isn't a thing, it isn't a problem and it doesn't need solving, that it isn't ingrained in society. It is otherwise me and your boyfriend would not have experience what they did. I was stupid for responding to provocation. I should know people who say all of those things are just looking for a fight.

[DFTgirl]

*would not have experienced what we did.

[DFTgirl]

At what point did I say men don't know what it's like to be raped?

[Elis678]

Rape culture, misogynist or every other word, it exists. It has always existed. It exist everytime a woman way of dressing is considered provocative and part of the reason she has been raped. The kind of anti-female mentality that justify or diminish every irrationale and crazy act men made, while blaming everything on women, it has been around since Adam and Eve fable and still exists all over the world.

[myTake Owner]

No, it HASN'T. It's an indoctrinated societal myth, much like the gender pay gap. It is non-existent.

I'm ready to bet you've done little to no research on the matter and blindly follow the mainstream Feminist agenda.

You don't even know what a culture is, by any stretch of the word.

The very fact no one can say things like "Why was the woman walking home alone down such and such alley?" or "She could've got a taxi or asked a friend to come along with her?", is totally unreasonable.

[Elis678]

Thanks for commetting. Your irrationally and full of hate response, just proved everything I was saying about the old misogynist culture making women responsible for disgusting men acts toward them.

[myTake Owner]

"Irrational"? "full of hate"? Are you just a little oversensitive?

Western women are amongst the most priviledge people on Earth, yet you still ask for more rights... sometimes completely disregarding that women in the Middle East are being stoned and hanged.

Continue to live in your life of double-standards and man-hate, like I fucking care.

[jacquesvol]

It's all in the terms used. 'Rape culture' does NOT exist in the West.
Rape is something the strangers or minority members do.
Guys in the West only have forced sex because she was asking for it: online.liebertpub.com/.../vio.2014.0022
See the difference?

[myTake Owner]

Not really because both Rape and "forced sex" are the same damn thing?

[jacquesvol]

the same damn thing in my opinion, yes but not for others when it's about getting an excuse for caveman behavior. Read the study: online.liebertpub.com/.../vio.2014.0022

[myTake Owner]

"Such sentiments contribute to a culture that continues to put at least partial responsibility for sexual assault on the victim and normalizes sexual aggression as part of the male gender
role" --- Typical Feminist remark.

If I leave my door open at night and hope that I don't get robbed, I have to take some responsability if I do get robbed.

If I flash my phone, money and fancy clothes in a relativly poor and crime ridden neighbourhood and hope not to get mugged, I have to take some responsability if I do.

But as soon as you say stuff like "She should've regulated how much she drunk", you're "victim blaming" and "promoting the 'Rape Culture'".

Everyone agrees that rape is a callous act. Everyone agrees that there should be severe punishment for those who carry it out!

[jacquesvol]

"as soon as you say stuff like "She should've regulated how much she drunk", you're "victim blaming" and "promoting the 'Rape Culture'"."
Indeed. Considering that forcing sex or whatever on a drunk girl is normal is rape culture. Imagine gays were 'morally allowed' to rape you, every time you get drunk, how would that feel? Try to imagine it. Just try.

[myTake Owner]

You're Straw Manning me now. "Considering that forcing sex or whatever on a drunk girl is normal is rape culture. Imagine gays were 'morally allowed' to rape you, every time you get drunk, how would that feel?" --- Where the fuck has this come from?

[jacquesvol]

That's what's said to a girl who was raped when drunk.

[jacquesvol]

"Typical feminist remark", says the take owner and that's enough to consider the remark void. Sure and easy. Too easy: you don't like it? Say it's feminist or communist or socialist...

Thanks, Senator McCarthy, thanks Rush Limbaugh! :D :D You both made discussions easy for anyone. No arguments needed anymore, just a word is enough.

[genuinlysensitive]

Lol was that study even peer reviewed? It also gives no standards of how data was collected or analyzed in these so called "studies". The studies that 1 in 5 women will be raped in college have been debunked almost as much as the pay gap myth. Nice try using pseudo science to prove a point Glen Beck. Next you'll be citing documents that cavemen walked with dinosaurs.

[jacquesvol]

@genuinlysensitive
Amply documented , published by well known ph. drs. You can be pretty sure peers read it.

[genuinlysensitive]

So thats a no. Lol you don't even know what peer reviewed means do you? It means actually reviewed by members of the scientific community to make sure quacks with PHDs like these don't publish inaccurate, or untrue papers that are taken as fact.

[jacquesvol]

@genuinlysensitive I haven't studied 5 years and got a degree, without knowing that and more. Members of the scientific community eagerly survey each others papers: a sport and a pass time which leads to lengthy -often eternal- discussions the public isn't aware of.. A new paper attracts ph drs, in the same field like sugar attracts ants.

[abundantlyrich]

I still think it's 'rape' when a guy pretends to be a sweet guy to bed a girl then act like she didn't exist. And all that Mother fucking talk about being friend zoned by girls is enough to say they couldn't lie and get in bed with a girl and prove to their friends they are so MOTHER FUCKING manly.

[Xelebrum]

Shut the fuck up.

[abundantlyrich]

Now i'm waitng for thebitches to downvote here :)

[abundantlyrich]

you shut the fuck up and always dropping weird comments on other people's thread.

[abundantlyrich]

Ugly people can't deal with set backs so therefore th society is to blame for their downfall.

[myTake Owner]

I didn't expect any less from you.

Tu quoque at your response to Xelebrum...

[abundantlyrich]

Can you block me please?

[Riggers]

''I still think it's 'rape' when a guy pretends to be a sweet guy to bed a girl then act like she didn't exist.''

Now lets look up what rape actually means

''unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.''

So, How the fuck is it rape, If a girl consented to it ?, Thats not rape, Thats a fucking stupid girl having sex with a douchebag and regretting it.

THERE IS A FUCKING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REGRET AND RAPE!!!

You know, In England the other day, Some teen guy who got accused of rape by some fucking stupid little bitch, And, This guy was so ashamed to be accused of something he never did, And got so much public hate for it, He killed himself.
www.telegraph.co.uk/.../...pe-commits-suicide.html

This is what stupid fucking mentalities like yours cause. Grow the fuck up.

[abundantlyrich]

I don't give a shit if you speak for those fucking arseholes. I'm not taking a a read of your academic intellectual lawyering debate. ENOUGH SAID.

[abundantlyrich]

Depression is a not a good reason to rape someone
Lack of sex or the need for sex but suffering from society anxiety is not a valid reason for rape.

[abundantlyrich]

Not my problem sincei don't own a penis

[Calex]

Rape is a VERY strong word and should not be thrown around easily! It can even be considered worse than murder. Please, please do not do it.

[Maverickj]

Do you realize that your ridiculous views prevent ACTUAL rape victims from being taken seriously?

Regretting sex does NOT mean it's rape! You are exactly what's wrong with feminism. I hope you're happy, you are single-handedly making sure that no rape victim is ever taken seriously. Be proud.

[abundantlyrich]

DAte rape is real. You don't own a pussy that's why you are delusional.

[abundantlyrich]

So fukc off with the Feminism crap and stupid nonsense. Yah blame the whole fucking world for how you feel.

[Anonymous]

I personally think rape and sexual abuse pis a subject society cannot stand to address, but that it's not a gendered thing. Tons of males get raped and momested too. As children, in prison and even by women.

It's so personal, demeaning and erasing of autonomy that people can't bear to talk about it honestly and directly. Instead, we make stupid jokes, get angry at the victims for making us uncomfortable, deny or minimize it, etc.

[Opinion Owner]

Molested. Damn autocorrect.

Frankly, making rape and sexual abuse a "female" rather than universal issue is just another minimization.

[John_Doesnt]

My opinion: those videos were annoying and I wished I hadn't watched them just to answer.

[myTake Owner]

Yet the irony is you haven't even answered lol

[Eternallylucky]

I'm sorry you didn't get laid.

[myTake Owner]

37 years old and that's all you've come up with hahahahaha!

[Kirah]

Please provide some actual arguments.

[myTake Owner]

Yeah @Kirah is right... we don't want your Ad Hominem here!

[Eternallylucky]

You are just a virgin complaining for nothing

[Eternallylucky]

Fuck off you are a woman hater, kirah.

[myTake Owner]

Still no argument from Opinion Owner... LOL

[BaileyisDarcy]

How the hell can a woman be a woman hater? That just sounds absurd.

[Anonymous]

She is great for sure, and a looker to boot.

[abundantlyrich]

With aids and herpes ready to claim you

[Opinion Owner]

@abundantlyrich

Wooo you really hate don't you :)

[Anonymous]

But women want to be raped.