Anti-Trump Protesters: No, You Don't Have to Leave

[ginny_weasley]

Lately I've seen a lot of Trump voters saying that whoever doesn't like that trump won, should leave. Was I the only one who paid attention in fifth grade US History, eighth grade History, Senior Government, and political science 101? We have freedom of speech, right to petition, and right to assembly. If you want to live in a country where it's required that we love whoever runs the country, I suggest moving to North Korea or the Middle East. If republicans can complain about Obama to their hearts content, then other people can do the same.

It's not like Republicans were courteous and kind to Obama or his family when he won or the second time he won. I just rolled my eyes and thought my god, they're at it again. When his oldest daughter was accepted into Harvard, she was called a variety of racial terms because people say she got special treatment and because she plans to take a gap year. Of course, most people calling her these terms or saying she got special treatment, aren't educated themselves. I'm sure that's a coincidence. (No it's not)

I get that some protesters aren't protesting peacefully and there is plenty of hypocrisy on the democratic side, and I condemn them. We have right to assembly as long as it's peaceful. It's so ironic that republicans keep saying we need to come together and make our country better by working together and then when someone expresses how a trump presidency scares them, they tell them to get out. Oh okay so we should only come together if we agree with you? 👌🏻👌🏻 No wonder why this country is divided. No, it wasn't caused by Obama or Trump. It was always there and it's because we don't respect each other. My dad voted for Trump he doesn't necessarily like Trump, he just despises Clinton. I'm not mad at him. I know he doesn't like Trump and I know that he hates the things Trump said. Particularly what Trump said about women. Like what my dad always says when he hears someone complaining about the government but didn't vote, "if you don't vote then shut the hell up." If you want to make real change, make a plan on how to make Congress do the jobs they're paid to do.

[Elarra]

This is pathetic.

Not your Take, but the fact that you even had to write it. I mean, we live in a nation where a lot of Trump supporters are now telling Americans to get out. It's disgusting. So who the fuck can live here? Not Clinton supporters, not 3rd party supporters, not Muslims, not Mexicans, blacks gotta go back to Africa, too...

I mean, they talk about 'Make America Great Again' yet all they're doing is destroying it.

[Red_Arrow]

Interestingly, Trumps grandfather, Friedrich Trump came to America without notifying his country, Germany, that he was leaving, which was required them. Also, he did not serve his required military service, so in essence was a draft dodger. It is said that he left in the middle of the night leaving his mother a note. He made his fortune and returned to Germany and married a woman and brought her back to the States. His wife became homesick, so they moved back to Germany, where the authorities determined he was a draft dodger and refused to grant his citizenship back. They moved back to New York. They had a son, Fred, who was Donald's father.

If only the German government had let him stay, we would not be burdened with "The Don".

[Waffles731]

I ain't leaving, I can't sit by and let the bastards ruin this country

[madhatters4]

well said. protest a fundamental right in our country... a country founded by dissidents. if you want to protest do so within the legal confines that our laws and Constitution allows

rioting and violence is never acceptable but peaceful protest is what our country is founded on and HUGE reason why America is great.

[NexAngelus]

huuu... dont make shit up. ur like 20. this did NOT happen last election thank u very much. and having no respect for a nobody is not the same as being a baby and protesting and burning and rioting and killing cops. i hope u DONT think that is the same thing? ur not to clever i see. and u realize she only got into that school because of her parents? i wasn't even aware she got in, so clearly who ever was making fun of her was 1-3 people caues it didn't make the news. pro like half the other liberal news, fabricated... or like obamas harvard degree lol fake. wonder when he is going to unseal that? its only a degree... but then again i guess it took 6 years to forge a half ass HALF birth certificate lol for the most "powerful" person in the world, so what do u expect really. he is only a community organizer with nothing goign for him besides creating obamacare that will be destroyed soon enough. legacy = gone :) and its been mostly liberals who didn't vote if u try to count people that keep coming out and cry then say ooo ya i forgot. think konya west is the only one claiming to vote trump and didn't vote so far.

[ginny_weasley]

And you're like 30. See? No one cares. Again, I condemned the violent protesters. Your paragraph took me a while because of your poor grammar so I wouldn't criticize MICHELLE obama who indeed went to Harvard. I don't think you read the my take go back and try again. You actually believe that obama was born in Kenya?

[RationalMale]

Of course people who didn't like Trump don't have to leave. Of course
1. Whiny celebrities who vowed to leave if Trump won because whites are evil... yes, they should leave.
2. You want to peacefully protest or something? Knock yourself out, go show how classy you are.
3. You want to block traffic... or get violent? I hope this is the joyous result if you play in the road..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_OvuARUUfI

And hopefully if a lovely leftist group gets violent, they have the good sense to run when someone draws on that scumbag ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q3h6Oez7MA

[Righttobeararms83]

A lot republicans/conservatives actually voted fir Obama so were quite accepting when he won under the promise of change. Obama's daughter may have got special treatment but what president's kid or politician's kid different. Its just modern politics in seems were not even a politician's kids are safe from arm chair internet snipping. Personally I think Obama's daughter more likely got to harvard on merit like her intellectual powerhouse mom. Funny thing I noticed about liberals was that a month ago they called "make America great again" and "build the wall" hate speech rather than freedom of speech.

[COCOCHANEL]

here in east asia no one is educated. that's why there is no liberal movement. everyone is a hardcore conservative. including ph d holders, they're also uneducated because they want to keep foreigners out. oh wait, Asians are never racist, just want to preserve culture.

[Negrodamuss]

i can't wait for Trump to put in one of the wall streeters he's been dying to let in as secretary of treasury so they can eliminate the Dodd - Frank like they so desperately want to... so that the U. S. economy will crash. I've been waiting for the opportunity to short/bet against the S&P500 for years now, and it looks like Trump and his cronies are already setting it up to happen again. I've kinda given up on the concept of American exceptionalism and even intelligence for that matter, so you may as well profit from the crash. I agree with you ultimately though. Imagine if all those republicans who hit the streets to protest obamacare were forced to leave the country simply because they disagreed. It's a silly thing to even utter, but again... i don't expect much from Americans these days so the widespread use of this argument doesn't surprise me

[jacquesvol]

What's wrong with the 'Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act ' ?

[Negrodamuss]

@jacquesvol nothing... except that they are the last line of defence americans have against wall street, and if Trump puts a wall streeter in as secretary of the treasury as he seems to be planning, its likely that this last line of defence will be stripped away. Yet another consequence of Americans stupid choice to vote Trump... so at this point im just counting down the clock and preparing to place my bets in the markets

[Waffles731]

He can't, there are too many democrats in the senate and house

[jacquesvol]

@Waffles731 Someone had the same problem and solved it:

www.lichtbild.org/.../...g-abgeordnete-denkmal.jpg
Few people know for what it stands

[Negrodamuss]

@Waffles731 assuming corporate democrats wouldn't mind having it altered/removed

[Negrodamuss]

keep in mind too waffles that the dodd frank act was something that obama had to be dragged into kicking and screaming. Its something that progressives had to fight tooth and nail for, and its not even that strong of a defence against wall street to begin with... but its the best you've got

[Waffles731]

Eh,
We've survived this long, we can survive four years of this moron, especially since the opposing party generally takes the midterm elections.
As for you,
Considering the Canadian Economy is basically Dependent on ours

[Waffles731]

I just hope he doesn't undue the nasa budget increases of the past few years.
Its back up to nearly 20 billion

[jacquesvol]

It's rather discrete, as you can see:

www.memorialmuseums.org/.../...f2c92_w399_h268.jpg

[Negrodamuss]

@Waffles731 he's pretty anti science, so im not optimistic about nasa's future. As for myself and Canada... every country will be affected to some degree when the worlds largest consumer goes belly up. However, if you know whats coming and are set up to profit from it, there isn't much to worry about

[Waffles731]

Well, I wouldn't say that, the NASA budget increases where passed by a majority Republican house and senate and now we have nearly half the senate democratic, and in two years thats going to switch to control of at least the senate and probably the house.
Republicans will do it because its good publicity and good for their re-election,
ESPECIALLY in the south where you get people who miss the days when NASA made Huntsville and other parts of the deep south have an economic boom

[Waffles731]

but I can do four years of this, plus I'm starting to think that election trump and president trump MIGHT be different people.
not a good president, still terrible, still terrible enough that he's going to be one term, but not a doomsday president

[Negrodamuss]

@Waffles731 ah fair enough. well fingers crossed for nasa then

[Waffles731]

Same I want people on goddamn mars already

[Maik567]

People use the "If you don't like it just leave" everywhere, definitely not exclusive to this case. And almost all of the "you have to leave" comment I've seen have been directed to the people who said they would leave the country if Trump won.

I supported Trump and in my opinion everyone is allowed to complain to their hearts content, I have nothing against that. But when people do illegal shit as a form of "protest" that's where it goes overboard. And there's a difference between not liking how the election turned out and refusing to accept it. And for those people who refuse to accept how our voting system works just because they didn't get what they want, I just have no respect for those people.

[ginny_weasley]

That's true. People will complain no matter what for the next four years.

[lumberman9]

That's the problem with both Democrats and Republicans they will accuse the opposite party of being intolerant, and they don't even realize that they're just as intolerant. If Republicans speak their views Democrats react with hostility and Republicans will complain but if Democrats speak their views Republicans can be just as hostile. One good example is Colin Kapernick, he refused to stand for the national anthem and of course every tried to force him to stand saying it's his "right" to stand. The problem with that though is it's only his right to stand if he also has the choice not to stand, you explain that to people and they don't understand though those same people who say it's his right to stand say that he is not given the right to sit. Only in dictatorships are force to stand because it's your "right". These same people will throw a fit, but they overlooked one thing the first amendment

[UnderlyDedicated]

What scares me is not the fact the majority of people did not vote for him but that soooo many people did. Are nation is really ass backwards. I'm currently moving myself. I already got the apartment and will be gone in a week.

[ginny_weasley]

I know 59 million is a lot but you shouldn't be mad at them. Racists always existed. Almost 50% of the population in America didn't vote. Be mad at them. They're the reason we are in this mess.

[UnderlyDedicated]

Is it? I didn't vote. Last I checked i live in Texas which means my vote doesn't count. Texas will always vote republican. Funny thing is more people voted for Hillary... this allows gore and bush all over again. People don't vote and it's because the system is flawed and voting is an illusion. If it worked he wouldn't be president. Trump himself has always criticized the electoral college and as soon as he won only because of that he backed it. He's already gone back on soooo much and he's not even president yet. Our founding fathers wanted the electoral college to keep rich white men in power. Have you ever read the articles of confederation? It clearly states that the common man is too stupid to be allowed to choose the president. I've given up on this country. So I'll be in Mexico but still working in the us. With NAFTA being torn up Mexico will go into an economic nightmare. And since I'll have my income from the us (I work on a military base) my us money will make me a king.

[ginny_weasley]

That's true where you live, your vote doesn't count because the system is flawed. I know the popular vote has its faults, but the electoral college needs to be modified at the very least.

[UnderlyDedicated]

At the very least, yes. Really it needs to be gone completely but requirements to be considered for president stricter.

[QuestionMan]

And yet those very same Obama voters didn't protest Obama bombing Libya.
Hmm, it's like being a neo-con is only bad when a Republican does it.

[ginny_weasley]

Are people literate these days? Once again, I said there is plenty of hypocrisy on the democratic side.

[UnderlyDedicated]

I like when people criticize trump people's arguments are "but obama..." or "well hillary..." it's like who the fuck is talking about them? This is why America is fat and stupid.

[QuestionMan]

Thing is I've been criticizing Trump from the very beginning on his stupid fucking wall.
I'm pretty consistent. Every time bs came out of his mouth I criticized him. I never endorsed him I just saw him as better than Clinton.
And yet the Democrats who protested Bush with great zeal didn't do shit about Obama's actions.
Last I checked Guantanamo Bay is still open, citizens are being spied on by the NSA and all that hope and change rhetoric didn't amount to much good.
I'm willing to bet Trump supporters will hold Trump's feet to the fire. They're already pissed that he's back tracking on his promise to "Lock Her Up".

[madhatters4]

there were literally almost ten straight days of protests over Libya from various groups mostly left wing liberal groups... just saying. protests in minneapolis, iowa, philadelphia, new york, DC, Austin.

[jacquesvol]

@QuestionMan there protests about Libya. Conservatives called them leftist riots.

[QuestionMan]

@jacquesvol Never saw anything on the news.

[jacquesvol]

I quote f:
On April 2 a protest was organized in Minneapolis by the Anti-War Committee (AWC), Emergency Committee to Stop U. S. War in Libya, Military Families Speak Out (MFSO), Students for a Democratic Society (U of MN), the Twin Cities Peace Campaign, Veterans for Peace[citation needed], Women Against Military Madness and other organizations which was attended by more than 50 protesters. The demonstrators shouted anti-war slogans and displayed signs reading "U. S. hands off Libya," "Foreclose the war, not people’s homes," and "Say no to U. S. war against Libya". A statement issued by organizers said, "Eight years after the start of the war in Iraq, the U. S. has launched a new war in the Middle East, this time against Libya. This is not a 'humanitarian intervention.' This is a war launched to try to control the oil resources of the region". Meredith Aby of the Anti-War Committee (AWC) told the crowd, "Obama doesn’t have the right to decide for the Libyan people who their leader

[jacquesvol]

who their leader is or what they do with their oil. Those questions are for the Libyan people to answer and them alone."[86]
Also: www.fightbacknews.org/.../minnesota-protest-demands-stop-bombing-libya
I suppose Foxnews didn't say much about these and other protests.

[QuestionMan]

@jacquesvol I rarely watch Fox News. I mostly watch CNN and don't recall seeing anything there.
Only RT was doing a good job reporting on the conflict. It's sad that a Russian propaganda channel did a better job that MSM.

[madhatters4]

@jacquesvol precisely there were literally protests for almost 10 days straight in cities across the country and around the world. i think the simple fact is that many people have selective memories and hearing... like they don't remember the protests after obama was elected. and the near 8 years many on the right tried to say he wasn't legitimate because he was a foreigner or muslim. people protest it's really that simple. logically or not people protest. it's their right as long as they do it civilly and peacefully

[jacquesvol]

Russian propaganda channels did a better job than many others in launching fake news to push Trump.

[QuestionMan]

@madhatters4 Proof?
I didn't see it on any MSM.

[QuestionMan]

@jacquesvol I watch RT about as rarely as Fox news. They tend to be heavily biased. CNN is usually somewhat better but they've shown their true colors. I like Morning Joe on MSNBC.
Considering the alternative was Clinton I don't blame people for voting Trump. If it was Rand Paul vs Bernie Sanders than that would've been a good race and I would've cheared Rand on.
Trump to me is a part of the moronic Brexit effect (hope and change and light on the details), I just hate corruption more. Clinton needed to lose. Heck I'd take Evan McMullin over both candidates.

[jacquesvol]

Trump is just the guy who raised a lynch mob against Hillary, a witch hunt.
He got the technique here: uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8

[jacquesvol]

He made a bogus humbug about Hillary's personal server, but then contacts Petraeus who did way worse.

[jacquesvol]

And his cucks swallowed it, hook, line and sinker.

[QuestionMan]

@jacquesvol It's funny that you mention Petraeus, he mishandled classified information and was punished. Clinton was not punished.
Something to think about.

[jacquesvol]

@QuestionMan
According to what I read, Petraeus did worse than storing govt mails on a 'wrong' server. He showed the information to his biographer (reputed to be his mistress) . And the information included names of secret agents working on the terrain.

[QuestionMan]

@jacquesvol Guccifer was able to gain access to Clinton's emails as well as other unknown actors. She may not have handed over her emails but she still used a private server without authorization. How she avoided prosecution is beyond me; her ties must run really deep.

[jacquesvol]

Even AFTER the FBI killed her election campaign by transgressing the Hatch Act they had to admit that there are no grounds for prosecution.

[QuestionMan]

@jacquesvol Hillary Clinton's campaign wasn't killed by the FBI. She was just a shitty candidate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

[madhatters4]

a shitty candidate who got 2million more votes than the guy who one the election? there are reasons she lost. it's not that she was a "shitty" candidate

[jacquesvol]

Against the war in Libya:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjZKozcdnLU

Against the war in Syria:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJYuViS-XVI

[jacquesvol]

@QuestionMan
Clinton:65,250,336 popular votes
62,686,062 popular votes
https://cookpolitical.com/story/10174
Numbers tell the story.
Trump:

[jacquesvol]

Trump: 62,686,062 popular votes

[QuestionMan]

@jacquesvol That's not the whole story though. Most people voted for Clinton only because they opposed Trump not because they supported her.
Only 58% of eligible voters voted in the election
www.pbs.org/.../

[QuestionMan]

@jacquesvol As for the videos you posted, the first had only about 1,200 views and the second is from some left wing YouTube channel. I was asking for mainstream coverage which there was none off.

[jacquesvol]

@QuestionMan that means you don't look for the news where it is.

[jacquesvol]

The NSA got its present role from Bush after 9/11 and FBI director Comey is a REP. Guantanamo was kept open by the representatives, acying against Obama's order.

[helloitsmethere]

"Was I the only one who paid attention in fifth grade US History, eighth grade History, Senior Government, and political science 101?"
Correction: Was I the only one who paid attention in school?

[ginny_weasley]

Hahaha true. People only like freedom of speech when it benefits them

[Phoenix98]

Nope if they don't like it they can leave ^^ they might be arrested anyway what with all the insane stuff they've been running around doing. A lot of them either were breaking the law or are when they started rioting in the streets and looting (stealing) and burning things, not to mention they've been running around putting graffiti like swastika on property and trying to blame it on us.

[Rissyanne]

They are nuts that is for sure.

[ginny_weasley]

Once again, I condemn the violence.

[Phoenix98]

it doesn't matter they're still doing it lol.

[ginny_weasley]

If you're going to ask me to make them stop, you're talking to the wrong person.

[Phoenix98]

Why would I ask you that? there's nothing you could even remotely do.

Only to do is arrest them.

[Izumiblu]

Im personally a big believer that anyone on either side that says "im going to leave if the vote doesn't go my way" should be invited to exit the country if they see that as a preferred option over getting involved and if they ever want to return they should forego all rights to have a say in how the country is run. They shouldn't be asked to stay. If they are able to vote they know how the systems works and they are choosing not to participate... so be it, be gone.

[beautifulangel76]

Actually they are causing themselves and others more problems when they do things like this. The republicans didn't do this when Obama was elected and most likely wouldn't have done anything had it have been Hillary. If any of these people protesting knew something about anything they would know that a lot of the things Donald Trump said he would do are things he isn't capable of.

[Puppylove94]

lmfao... you've got it SO wrong.

anti trump supporters are SAYING "we want to leave because we don't respect the president and he shouldn't have won".. so we're saying "fine if you can't respect the fact that he won, you can leave".

Nobody was protesting this much when Obama became president. We accepted the fact that he won because he was voted into office. The fact that parents are protesting and not going to work and kids are refusing to go to school to protest is absolutely ABSURD.

[ginny_weasley]

Lol. People were undermining Obama at every turn. There were protesters against obama even if you didn't take part in them.

[Puppylove94]

not as obnoxious as the ones protesting against trump. People are being violent and that's not how you peacefully protest. Plus, there is not reason why people should be avoiding their jobs and school- thats just immature and ridiculous.

[ginny_weasley]

Oh dear god. I specifically said I condemn the violent protests.

[Puppylove94]

Nobody is peacefulu protesting lmfao it's all violent

[ginny_weasley]

Then I guess the obama protesters weren't peaceful either?

[Puppylove94]

You never heard about Obama protesters in the news. That's the difference. People think they're peacefully protesting when they're blocking highways and shit cause they aren't directly doing anybody any harm right?

No. what happens when an ambulance can't get to where it needs to go and the person dies. It indirectly affects people and the protestors are o arroganf even realize it.

[ginny_weasley]

That story was proven to be fake. I'm sure you can look up obama proteson google and find plenty of stories and pictures.

[Puppylove94]

What story?

[ginny_weasley]

The one about the protesters blocking the ambulance.

[smahala1991]

I worry more about Pence becoming president or one of his other cabinet members more than Trump or Clinton leading. I would love to see Biden get a 2020 run. But I wouldn't leave the country either way. Except for a vacation.

[Dred1614returns]

I think that the people that say that are mostly referring to those that said they would leave if Trump won.

[ginny_weasley]

Everyone knows they weren't serious unless they're a rich celebrity who can leave.

[Dred1614returns]

I know that. I just think that the people that are saying that enjoy calling them out.

[ginny_weasley]

Yeah that's true. I would like to leave the country. Not because trump won, I just want to travel.

[Rissyanne]

I haven't heard of any celebrities leave. They were just talking out of their ass... as usual.

[cavmanier]

@Rissyanne One said they'd go to Mars 😂😂

[Rissyanne]

@cavmanier hope they go

[ThePlan]

I see a big issue starting to arise.
In reality peaceful protests don't work, as long as powerful people do not feel threatened, they abuse their power. ALWAYS.
Now, at the moment things are okay, because there are less aggressive people than law enforcement. BUT, at times in the past, this has reversed and the police have not had the power or weapons to quiet the crowd down.
The reason for this, is because you people have been using the law to justify bad behaviour and protect bad men. You are confused, and you have a crowd of confused people. All they need is someone to channel their aggression, and organise and fuel it, and you got an army. This is the beginnings of how things USED to be. You've forgotten.
The powerful, are once again starting to ABUSE, their power, and people are once again starting to realise they are getting screwed over.

[ginny_weasley]

Powerful people have always abused their powers. That's nothing new. If peaceful protest didn't work, go talk to the ghost of Martin Luther King Jr.

[ThePlan]

They don't here is the thing. At the SAME time you had violent protesters like Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam reaking havoc. They were pushed into a wall. So they agreed, and gave credit to the more peaceful approach to prevent violence from occurring again in the future. Talking things out, only works when the people in charge LISTEN, and are reasonable people, furthermore, they have to be willing to sacrifice their comfort for your gain. Most of the time, this isn't the case.

[ThePlan]

The two simultaneous approaches, addressed the two types of leaders. People are not logical in general. Usually, they are irrational and sneaky. You don't get rich by giving.

[ginny_weasley]

Did you read the my take? Or are you judging by the title? Again, I condemn the violent protestors. I'm not ever going to advocate for violent protests to voice my opinion. Never, ever.

[ThePlan]

You can't satisfy a carnivores hunger with vegetables. Everyone needs a different type of pressure to bend... if they bend.

[ginny_weasley]

I am still condemning violence.

[ThePlan]

Then, in turn by avoiding it, when it comes, it will be more chaotic and unhandleable than if it had been spread out over time. Its the ying and yang of life and human behaviour. For there to be stability, you need death.

[ginny_weasley]

Innocent people don't need to die for social change to happen. We're already overpopulated but that doesn't mean we kill off people. We simply just stop breeding for awhile.

[ThePlan]

They don't need to, but some will be caught up in it.
This is life. This is history, you've been lucky so far.
But I'm wondering about whether we should let it continue.

[GoldCobra]

In my opinion, I don't think there should have ever existed the democratic or Republican Party. Everyone should've just been individual. Now, I'm not saying this will solve everything and no one will be pissed. It is impossible to keep every single person happy because people simply want different things. lol politics

[genuinlysensitive]

That was what George Washington suggested. He knew that with political parties would come dual loyalties, at some point "The Party" would command greater loyalty than the Nation, so he was fiercely against political parties. Unfortunately, he was overruled :(

[genuinlysensitive]

I mean seriously, Hillary voted For the Iraq War, The Patriot Act, The Bailouts, was against gay marriage, and was funded by Wall St. If she didn't have a little "d" next to her name you really think all those inner city Liberals would have voted for her? HELL NO!

[ginny_weasley]

I'm trying to look at this as a positive thing. I hope with trump being president, the two party system is eliminated.

[jacquesvol]

@genuinlysensitive
*-Read more about the Iraq War vote myth: 5 Myths (And One Big Truth) About Hillary's 2002 Iraq War Vote : www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...-vote_b_9177420.html

*-The Patriot Act was voted with unanimity -1 by the Senate (much to my regret) after the 9/11 shock. Only Russ Feingold voted against it. Thus except one all Senators can be accused of it.
*-For the bailouts: TINA there was no alternative but to see a 1929 style crises all over. Who would have wanted that?

[RegularTK421]

Protestors don't have to leave. I think what Trump supporters are having an issue with is people rioting, and assaulting random old people.