Why the Way the Sexes Talk with Each Other Needs to Change

[thetea]

Hi everybody! As you probably have realised, another International Women's Day has passed. It was practically impossible to ignore, considering the amount of questions, polls and Takes regarding the day itself, women or feminism.

Something I have noticed while reading through those many, many opinions on here, is how antagonistic both men and women are talking about each other. As a convinced feminist/humanitarian/whatever you want to label me, I want to make a call to change this kind of tone.

There undoubtedly are things wrong in the world with how BOTH men and women are treated and what are people doing instead of organising and working together? They fight. Sometimes about important topics but mostly, it's complaints about how shitty and bad the other gender is.

So to all women: stop trying to play the victims. As a fellow woman: I know not everything's going well, I know that there are some things that still need change. But you're not solving it by attacking men instead of opening discussion and trying to find a dialogue, that's going to push things in the opposite direction. And stop being so selfish! Just because someone is male, doesn't mean they don't have to face injustice or disadvantage because of their gender, or that women have it way worse by default. Once we start acknowledging this, we're one step closer to reach what we all want: true equality.

And to all the men out there: yes, some forms of "feminism" are misguided and wrong, a lot of the things radical feminism are asking for are straight up ridiculous. I know that toxic masculinity and bias against men both in society and law making are an issue. Now hear me out: so many women want to change that as well and we all want to welcome you with open arms. We're willing to listen and learn but for that to happen, you should be doing that as well. I don't ask you to accept everything women say as gospel, that's bullsh*t, you don't even have to like it, that's not necessary. But I ask of you to allow yourself to participate in a civilised discussion and considering things instead of attacking women who are suggesting issues that might still be there.

So please, let's try to get away from these hateful words that are circulating on both sides right now and make a true effort to change society to the better.

[PlacentaSalad]

From the perspective of a male, the societal tolerance of misandry is perhaps the biggest issue many men have with women, and why these men often seem to blame feminism -- because many misandrists actually claim to be feminists while spouting the "men are pigs" and "men are evil" assertions. You see this sexism demonstrated often on social media, more notably Facebook. I think the internet turns people bitter over time, because hardly anybody outside of their anonymous bubble would actually say anything like what you might see here on this website, but such comments and beliefs still do exist in reality.

Contrary to what you say, I tend to notice that a lot of feminists are actually skeptical to male rights. There are numerous male related issues that a lot of feminists are ignorant to, or don't care about addressing: gender difference in suicide rates, workplace fatalities, false rape allegations, military conscription, lack of service for male victims, higher rate of violent victimization, divorce and child custody issues, disparity in prison sentencing, disproportionate funding and research for male health issues, educational inequality, lack of reproductive rights, etc. I read an article, written by a feminist, explaining why this is, and she had said that it is because if feminism focused on men, society would prioritize male issues over female issues. So clearly, we aren't actually that important after all is what she was saying. Further proving her point, official websites like feminism. org don't even care to mention anything about male issues, the motto being "equality around the world," but where is the equality if it's just about women?

So in comes male rights activism as a result, and a documentary exploring the movement (by a once skeptical feminist) called "The Red Pill" was petitioned to be banned by feminists from screening in Canada and Australia for promoting misogyny, simply because it focused on discussing male related issues over female issues. The pattern here is that any movement that focuses more on one gender over the other is sexist and that unfortunately, there's always going to be a feud as different movements and people oppose one another.

I think the solution is to simply defend men against sexism by female perpetrators and likewise, to defend women against sexism from males. Having the maturity and rationale may just convince people that they're being silly and to question their often biased beliefs.

[thetea]

Thank you for your in depth opinion. As a feminist, I completely disagree with the women you mentioned, those are steps in the wrong direction, women who claim that making men's rights would draw focus from women's rights obviously have no concept of how activism and equality work. Though I have to admit, that I wasn't aware of male disadvantages for a long time either simply because our society shies away from openly discussing these topics as well, which I sincerely hope changes in the future.

[Anonymous]

My dad always told me " The world is bigger than your backyard " meaning everyone's lives and perspectives are different. I honestly feel like feminist see the world through a tunnel and never want to open their eyes to real world. I know I'm going to get a lot of pink down votes but discussing gender issues with men is easier than discussing it with Feminist.

[Mysterioustruth]

Let's married

[Mysterioustruth]

Let's get married

[AgentDearestZ]

I agree so much.

[Opinion Owner]

@Mysterioustruth Sorry I'm taken. lol

[Mysterioustruth]

That was a joke! Did you actually think I was going to marry you over the Internet.

[Opinion Owner]

@Mysterioustruth No, but I was being kind.

[ThisDudeHere]

So to sum it up - both genders face problems and the only way to fix them is to listen and talk with each other without fighting.

[thetea]

Exactly! 😊

[Nyx_85]

An open and honest discussion is what I strive for. However the fact that I don't pick a side and instead I go with the facts seems to piss people off. I could agree with and understands someone's meaning, I could agree with like 90% of their points, but if I point out the fact that they stated incorrect information or are interpreting the information wrong (this happens A LOT with statistics. For example you might have heard that stat that men are 75% of the homeless population. Well they are 75% of the 'chronically homeless' which accounts for roughly 20% of the entire homeless population. There are different subgroups of homeless. Yes there are more homeless men than women. Roughly 40% vs 60%. But I've even heard some people state 90% of homeless are men. That is just wrong. Also families with children are the fastest growing homeless population. Men are more likely to become homeless because of drug and alcohol abuse. To avoid assaults homeless women are more likely to stay off the streets and thus they are less visible. Then onto what many feminists say... the 1 in 4 women are raped statistic comes from fairly vague survey done by undergrad students in which only 19.3 percent of students contacted responding. How is that a fair estimate? The fact is finding a true statistic on the matter is impossible) they become extremely angry and upset that I dare to point that out. Just because I agree with half or most of what you say doesn't mean I'm going to sit there and nod my head when you state something that is false or misleading.

So yeah I'll have an open and honest discussion but don't get pissy when others point out the flaws in your presentation. The thing is anyone could be that with a bit of research. Instead work on using facts that are harder to refute and forming a solid argument for your points. Be clear and concise and passionate without being forceful or rude. I come from a family with quite a long history in law. Number of lawyers and judges in my family. When a lawyer goes to trial they must prepare their arguments in a way that does not leave reasonable doubt. Don't just fly off the handle the second someone says something you don't agree with. And if you want change WORK FOR IT. I see so many groups talking about things yet actually doing little to change it. As flawed as feminism is the fact is that feminists have done more than men's rights groups have done. And those groups have been around just as long as feminists.

[Nyx_85]

Ran out of characters... I remember this conversation I had with a man who was VERY passionately (and somewhat aggressively) pointing out the issues men face. Which I fully agreed with. Yet when I stated "What ideas do you have to help solve this?" he pretty much went blank. Talking about thing is necessary and good. Yet so is having a plan of action. it would separates you from actual activists and SJWs.

[Nyx_85]

I see a guy down voted me lol. Probably another extremist MRA that believes almost every single homeless person is a man lmao. I deal in facts not half truths to serve your victim complex. Same goes for men and women. Sorry people but that's how it is! Don't like it? Tough titties!

[LogicBomber]

Toxic masculinity is a farce. If feminism stopped making up ridiculous new terms to shame and attack men and masculinity, men wouldn't have to defend themselves and there would be as much animosity between the sexes. Feminism is the problem. Not "radical feminism" ... Feminism.
The most idolized leaders of feminism have been misandrist, Dworkin, Solanas, greer, etc. they are quoted and studied. Groups like NOW, UN women, and WAR
have all attacked men, fatherhood, and masculinity. They have awarded false rape accusers, excused and idolized female rapist, etc. This is NOT the minority, it is the core of feminism.

Criticizing feminism is not attacking women, it's attacking an ideology which people choose to be part of. Men are not the ones who fail to have civilized discussions or consider things feminist say. It's the feminist who get angry and fail to use rational discussion. It's feminist who use schoolyard tactics like silencing, shaming, and blocking anyone who points out their lies or state facts that go against their doctrine.
No one denies that women in eastern cultures are oppressed, but women in the west are not oppressed. Women in the west are significantly more privileged than men. This is all easily shown with facts.

[Aristides]

Yeah, it all starts with dialouge. I know most of my bias against women come from being cheated on thrice. Two of them I don't know much about what happened after. However the third became a single mom, apparently the guy cheated on her after he found out she was pregnant and left. Ever since she is always blasting on facebook how much men are trash and that they have no respect for women. That kind of talk irritates the hell out of me considering how she cheated on me. However I don't generalize women as cheaters, I just know that it goes both ways. Guys can be rude assholes, with no respect at all, you can see it in the comments here, and girls can be blinded by biased they have over those rude assholes and tend to generalize the better guys as creeps. Both just need to stfu and open their eyes sometime and stop generalizing.

[FreshOutaIdeas]

Ah fuck this shit...

I don't need to be told how to respect a woman by nobody!! Wage gap is bullshit. Gender inequality is bullshit. Gender equality is FUCKING BULLSHIT...

I value my women to the utmost, but what a lot of gals seem to want these days is to be treated like queens whilst being given social license to chastise many a man for... Ironically... Not being man enough!! That's when they end up being treated like men (which is what 'equality' really means) by actual fucking MEN! Then they don't like it!

Women, don't push us few MEN that are left away, your wombs are gonna wind up empty, lonely, decrepit old empty spaces if you carry on with your diabolical levels of cognitive dissonance... AND MEN, WHIP OUT THE D AND SHOW THE GOOD WOMEN THE PATRIARCHY! THEY ALL DESIRE IT, CRAVE IT!

[Rissyanne]

Do you feel like it is hard to understand women of today? I think that it is.

[batesis]

@Rissyanne it's simple to understand women, at least my point of view.

[FreshOutaIdeas]

@Rissyanne I don't personally find it explicitly "hard" to understand the young women of today, despite the many double standards males face - note the fact that I differentiate between 'male' and 'man'... Will explain what I mean by this - however to the many 'uninitiated' males of the same generation, for them dealing with todays young women is a fucking mindfield.

However, where either side of the argument falls flat on its sinking face, is that whether male or female, self-identifying 'feminist'/'MGTOW', or simply a sexually disenfranchised male or female, we argue with each other... Not against that of those who've destroyed gender relations...

There's clearly been an elitist agenda to simultaneously destroy masculinity and femininity; women are frustrated and confused, their biological makeup tells them they desire/need a big strong 'cave man' to provide and procreate, but then modern social engineering says all those virtues are wrong... (A little more hold on)

[FreshOutaIdeas]

@Rissyanne... Likewise males of my generation have been so hideously emasculated (as a general rule of thumb) that they cannot provide women what their bioligical makeup requires. Compare the latter day skinny-jeaned metrosexual, spineless hipster who sits about drinking frappucinos, bragging about how he made $10k to his girl-that-are-just-friends... To that of say, the real life equivalant of James Bond or perhaps a Viking warrior sailing the ocean to find new lands - and fight for their social survival... No comparison me thinks...

I'm not saying men should all become 007 or new-age Vikings, but its the virtues of masculinity to drive those men gone by to do what they done, which is ultimately what women are attracted to... This I've come to learn (luckily early on in life)... But the political agenda needs to be destroyed before men and women really do part ways in the foreboding dystopia...

[Cloudy25]

I'm always dumbfounded when I hear of this "issue" because I have never experienced it. In my "world" people don't actually fight about this.. Women that are more feministic get with guys that are as well, people who are very focused on equality between the genders associate with other people who are as well. I don't experience these gender view clashes at all, perhaps in rare instances when you meet a bitch/jerk at the mall lol but otherwise not.
And I don't think they should start acting different on the internet and reflect on how dumb they sound because then the internet wouldn't be as intertaining as it is.

[thetea]

You know, I found your comment very interesting, because for me, it's actually really different. My friend group is a equally male and female. All of us girls would consider themselves a feminist/egalitarian while the guys oppose it. We had COUNTLESS discussions about equality and funnily enough, the outcome usually is that the guys support the same things we do, they just shy away from the label.
Thanks for your opinion! 😊

[cth96190]

I stopped listening when I heard:
1. Kill all men. - Valerie Solanas
2. All sex is rape. - Andrea Dworkin
3. A woman needs a man in the way that a fish needs a bicycle. - Gloria Steinem.
Then there were changes to law that destroyed men during and after a divorce. Fifty per cent of marriages end in divorce.
Add discrimination against boys in school, young men at university and men in the workplace, as corporations hire less-qualified women, who cannot do the job, because they have a mandated gender quota to fill.
All the while, psychotic blue/pink/red/yellow/green haired nose-pierced Feminist land whales scream abuse at us 24/7 and rant about oppression that does not exist outside of their delusional minds.
For those and a list of other reasons, I am done.
I stopped listening and began, so far as was possible, to treat women as invisible decades ago.

[cth96190]

Continued. . .
Some women began to make conciliatory noises only AFTER social movements such as MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) began to gain significant and increasing popularity among men.
Women got to 30, realised that Feminism was bullshit that had robbed them of a husband and family, then looked around for a man. What they found was that the men had left the building and were determined to not return.
These conciliatory noises are decades too late and far too little.
Behold the faces of Feminism and what Feminists really think, in their own words:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzF-Q_ZEDg

[Anonymous]

The reason there is so much hatred and distrust between men and women today is feminism. As long as feminism is still supported by women like you, there will never be peace between the sexes.

Stop trying to rationalize your support for feminism by saying things like "some forms of "feminism" are misguided and wrong". Either you support it or you don't. And if you do, YOU ARE SUPPORTING ALL OF IT. You are every bit as guilty as any other feminist piece of shit.

Feminists hate men, and any woman who supports feminism supports that hatred. Do you think men are not going to hate women right back? Of course they are. That is what feminism has done to gender relations. Women have created that condition, and the onus is on them to take the first steps to fix it. The first step must be to disavow feminism. That should be obvious to anyone.

[thetea]

Listen, I don't support what a lot of people are claiming feminism to be in these times BUT I support the equality of the sexes and by defining my beliefs that way, I'm by definition a feminist and I've been for years, even​ before people on the internet started to obsess over it. If my stance helps feminism to get a better name, I'll gladly take a few weak insults for the team. Have a good day 😊

[Opinion Owner]

If you support feminism then what you're supporting is sexism and hatred. I don't know how you can sleep at night.

[caveman_86]

Well said. i constantly notice this in real life and online... and its hurting both genders even more. i love what you say about letting our arms down and talking to each other. i honestly never knew that equality would create so much hate for each other... sigh

[worldscolide]

I really like this one.. Good mytake. i have chosen to follow you.

[thetea]

Thanks! 😊

[Anpu23]

I am. all for open and honest discussion. I write from my heart and experiences and appreciate those who do as well. Good mytake.

[thetea]

Thank you! 😊

[Robin48]

The picture needs to be turn around. That how many females talk to their partner. Many females think what they said or what they do override their partner in what he said and what he does. Many relationships that female see their side and their side only. That why so many females have relationship issues.

[Nyx_85]

Funny this has been a problem I've had with some exes doing to me while I'm the one that listens to them and respects their opinion... Not to mention the bs I've heard about guys my friends have dated. Like try dating men and you'd see they do a lot of the same crap. It's not a gender issue. It's a people issue.

[Robin48]

@Nyx_85

It a people issue, not a gender issue. Our culture has been painting a picture that it a gender issue. The main problem's in a relationship has been one sided. How I can benefit myself from using another person. It does not work that way.

[Nyx_85]

Yes I agree it doesn't. Problem is it is getting harder and harder to find people willing to work together.

[Robin48]

@Nyx_85

You are correct.

[tyber1]

When women stop demanding equality while simultaneously deciding to cling to traditional values where it benefits them, we can talk. Until women can stop being stubborn, proud hypocrites, I'm not really sure what there is to talk about.

[ProjectBaby1K]

I'll be open to discussion with a child-like retard (also known as feminist) when she can properly explain her claims like an adult, rather than create ridiculous movements such as #KillAllMen...

Also, do NOT tell me, a grown man, how to speak. I'll antagonize however I want, especially if that person deserves it.

[Anonymous]

You want us to promote womens rights along with you but there's no reciprocity. We need women to strongly support men's rights as well. You'll have those women out there who teach that "men already possess all the rights" - which is total malarkey. In the 4th wave times and laws have completely changed. If women want some type of an agreement then they need to support our issues just like they insist that we support theirs. It's just that simple.

[Kuraj]

"some forms of "feminism" are misguided and wrong"

All, all forms of feminism are misguided and wrong.
If you truly want for things to change then drop the patronizing tone and your exploitative entitled crybaby movement and we can talk.

[Anonymous]

But who will women blame for all their problems? If it's not men, that would mean they need to take responsibility for themselves.

[Topkek]

LMAO so true.

[Anonymous]

Just say what you feel, truly feel, if you're a girl feel free to let out that "all men are pigs", for guys, "cunt, whore, slut" seem to work just fine. For better emotional health, let that negative aggression out, you can always apologize later by sending her some organic hate free flowers.

[Browneye57]

Honey, it's just not about equality. Trust me on this.

[ad48hp]

If feminism is movement with goal to achieve equality for both genders, what is masculism then?

[batesis]

Same shit dude.

[batesis]

Feminism is the gain of equal rights for women and masculism makes sure we are equal.

[batesis]

This is why sub-movements like Mgtow and Neomasculinity exist, to make sure we are truly equal towards the opposite sex and if it doesn't, we keep on fighting.

[ad48hp]

@batesis
Masculism is movement for guys, and feminism for girls, whoever says else listens to radio more than Wikipedia.

[batesis]

Yes but mgtow and neomasculinity are sub movements.