Why We Shouldn't Worry About Europe Heading Politically to the Right

[Iraqveteran666]

In response to a panicking liberal who stated "This doesn't happen often, but when Europe does go far right a world war and genocide are always right around the corner.
Will they ever learn their lesson over in that part of the world?" https://www.girlsaskguys.com/social-relationships/q2387396-should-we-be-afraid-that-europe-is-politically-heading-far-right

There's a difference between going right and facism and national socialism, let's not forget communism/left's part in the start of world war 2 such as selling out the allies and invading Poland with the Nazis as well as Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. Now in eastern Europe after 50 years of communism they learned their lesson.

Let's not forget communism/left's own history of genocide and death that matches National Socialism.

Now if Socialism doesn't equal communism then we can all agree that the wave of nationalism, patriotism, conservatism and rejection of globalism and failed socialist politics doesn't equal Nazism. Leftists like to think voters are stupid but the people of Europe like America have be suffering under bad socialist governments who instead of easing their economic burden, getting them jobs and creating the conditions for the average citizen to succeed they are given socialist policies like open boarders, multiculturalism, globalism, high taxes and welfare.

In short left wing politics have failed Europe and the people aren't willing to tolerate being ignored or anymore failed socialist experiments *cough European Union cough*.

[lkghdfghkjl]

i agree 100% with your understanding that people are not stupid and will not tolerate being ignored by elites, economists, policy makers and governments. However, you become very inconsistent when you start explaining what pissed people off. Globalization has failed so many people, but if anything, globalization, unjust free-trade agreements and the free-market ideology all came about with Neolibarlism, which is pure CAPITALISM. As I see it, mainstream economists adopted neoliberalism as a set of ideas (about self-governing individuals and an economic system that needs to be understood and obeyed) and a political-economic project (on behalf of corporate bosses) and ignored the enormous costs, especially those borne by the majority of people who come from poorer backgrounds, their families, and the communities in which they live. And it was precisely the resentments generated by neoliberalism—which were captured, however imperfectly and in a cynical manner, by Trump’s campaign (and downplayed by Hillary Clinton’s)—that many voters took to the polls. Rodrick is absolutely right: mainstream economists’ own models include at least some of the losses from trade—in terms of outsourced jobs, declining wages, and rising inequality—but, in their textbooks and public interventions, they routinely ignore those losses and take the position that globalization and free trade need to be celebrated, protected, and expanded. Lest they create an opening for the normal American or European guy (now called a "barbarian" by liberals) who is critical of the conditions and consequences of capitalist globalization.

Those of us who have been critical of free-trade agreements and the whole panoply of policies associated with globalization and neoliberalism understand they’re not the sole or even main cause for the deteriorating condition the U. S. working-class has found itself in recent years and decades. Neoliberalism is not just globalization, as it includes a wide range of strategies and structural changes that have boosted the bargaining power of employers vis-à-vis workers—from the adoption of labor-saving technologies through the growth of the financial sector to a deterioration of the social safety net.

[lkghdfghkjl]

@Iraqveteran666 i am sorry my answers tend to get long. Bottom line is, this is not a defence on behalf of socialism. My whole point is that this is not an opportunity to hone our arguments for and against capitalism and socialism. if anything, this is what elites want people to get occupied with so that the same set of policies get continues under different propaganda.
Let's just call things by their name, it is what it is: a very bad version of post-industrial capitalism with huge corporations and an unstable financial system absorbing the whole economy that wrecked people lives. It doesn't matter if liberals try to adopt more of a "left" version of these policies, but if anything we need more social net, more security and less poverty traps. Now why go you use this to argue against socialism, these thing that upset people (globalization and so many other things) are all purely capitalistic free-market taken to the extreme policies. Why do you think Trump will be any different?

[OlderAndWiser]

It is ironic that Al Gore used the expression "inconvenient truth" in his book title because the truth is usually something that is inconvenient for liberals and the far left. For example, the relationship between the recent wave of Syrian immigration and violent crimes in Europe is a very strong argument against allowing such immigration, UNLESS you simply choose to ignore those facts.

The left should be concerned about recent political trends, not because it bodes poorly for our future but solely because it represents the left's loss of power. For most of us, that is not something to fear, but something to celebrate!

[Iraqveteran666]

Well said.

[Belgie]

Europe isn't worried - for a simple reason. We've seen this before. We're not going to walk into it blindly.

America has danced with Fascism for decades but has never had to actually deal with it. It's invented boogeymen like Communism, Socialism and Terrorism. Called them existential threats against Capitalism.

If anyone is blindly going to elect a system that blames immigrants for their troubles while tying corporatism to government (which is the definition of fascism) it is America.

Fortunately, I think the odds of that are ALSO very low. As a better man than me once said, There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured with what is right in America.

[Iraqveteran666]

For the record America has not danced with socialism whether it be national socialism to communism.

[Belgie]

"For the record America has not danced with socialism"

I never said it did.

[Iraqveteran666]

You said facisism so i assume national socialism.

[Belgie]

Well that just shows you don't know what they are.

[Anonymous]

I am a pakistani immigrant living in Sweden. My parents are both doctors and I am an engineering student with honors, so I really dont mind if European countries ditch the welfare state and move towards a free capitalist market with more privatization and lower taxes. It would definitely be more beneficial to a highly educated person like myself.
Nevertheless I hate nationalism. I hate it because it is a threat to myself. I have had uneducated, good for nothing idiots telling me I have to get out of their country because I am not white. Imagine if this was the norm. Nationalism is cancer because it leads to hatred, especially by uneducate loser who have amounted to nothing in life and need someone to blame it on.
And I also disagree with you that its the responsibility of the government to find you a job. Nobody is entitled a job, you have to earn it.
In an ideal world we would have a free market, with open borders, where anyone is welcome to come and compete and only the best will reach the top.
I dont believe a country should be a safe space for you to get what you want handed to you, I crave and embrace the competition.

[Iraqveteran666]

Who said the government is responsible for finding you a job? If there are no jobs how can you find a job? Our government should not be enriching other countries and global corporations at the expense of our own citizens. When our own people are struggling it's ridiculous to open our boarders to the poor of the world. The West has long taken in the best and brightest from around the world which no one really has a problem with as long as they assimilate and live by our laws and contribute to our society which unlike in Europe Muslims in America do and as a result have been very successful as have many Asians and other immigrants.

[Opinion Owner]

You dont have to worry about open borders when there is no welfare state. No welfare state = no welfare immigrants, its not rocket science.
If you have a free market with low taxes there won't be any reason for an immigrant to hop on board unless they know they have what it takes to compete. Taxes will be so low that the government is powerless and there simply won't be much welfare to go around. You have to work your ass off to survive. Just because you're born in a country doesn't mean that it should be a safe place for you where the government babies you and makes sure the jobs you want are available for the salary you want. Nobody is special. You make your own welfare by working for it.

[Iraqveteran666]

Nobody said that the Government should baby us but giving away American jobs to immigrants and outsourcing to other countries is bad for the economy an "We the People" don't support that so we vote for Trump.

[Opinion Owner]

lol you dont think Trump has himself outsourced thousands of jobs, hm, what a patriot.

Anyways I strongly disagree with you sir. You're either for capitalism or you're against it. And if you believe the government should keep private companies in check by making sure they hire local workers instead of bringing in cheap labour or outsourcing then you're not a capitalist which I thought was the very core of conservatism. Private companies should not be controlled by the government.
Its kind of pathetic really that there are conservatives who want to hide behind daddy Trump and beg that he brings them prosperity. If you believe the goverment needs to get out of its way to makes sure you have the job you want for the salary you want, then guess what you feel that you're entitled.

[Iraqveteran666]

Capitalism and globalism are two different things.
If Trump didn't outsource he'd have gone broke competing against companies outsourcing.
Corporations are bound by the laws of the lan particulary in the countries they are based In, the government shouldn't control them yes I agree but if for instance they are choosing to outsource jobs well the Government is free to choose to put a tariff on their goods.

[Opinion Owner]

They shouldn't, private companies should be free to do as they please. Either outsource work or bring in immigrants on working visas to do the work, which silicon valley tech companies already do.
I think we should embrace the competition and accept that just because you're born in a country or lived there for a long time it doesn't make you special. You have to always find ways to better yourself to compete for jobs. Be it against an immigrant or your next neighbour.

[rjroy3]

Nationalism - patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.

Racism - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior:

Don't conflate the two. Nationalism isn't bad. What you experienced was racism.

[Iraqveteran666]

That's the thing we dont have to accept anything, it would be a cold world if corporations run it, companies are free to get up and leave our shores anytime they want but if they want to do business in our country they will have to pay for the privledge. Businesses are given free reign in South America and look at the state of it.

[disgustingweebtrash]

Leftists will say "communism was never truly tried hurr durr" but then bitch that Nationalism is literally Hitler. Nationalism is wanting protection and shelter for your own people, what is the problem with that?

[disgustingweebtrash]

United and proud countries coming together to work together will get you further than divided and ashamed nations coming together to work together.

[Iraqveteran666]

Funny because globalism is having the opposite effect.

[disgustingweebtrash]

It is definitely making it's effects here. People are no longer proud of being "British" me myself. I wish I could be, but I can't. I can't be proud of a country where the government does not care for it's people and puts outsiders before the children on this soil that are starving and have no family.

[Iraqveteran666]

I hear they are pushing Londoners out to make room for wealthy foreigners

[disgustingweebtrash]

Where do they have to go? The housing market is pretty bad over here, those are families being pushed out.

[Iraqveteran666]

Not enough houses landlords can charge what they like

[AleDeEurope]

We should be happy about this. What right wingers believe, is what made Europe great, it's what brought Europe to what it is today. We need to preserve that.

[Iraqveteran666]

And are Europeans happy where Europe is today?

[AleDeEurope]

No, hence why it's a good thing we're going more to the right.

[Iraqveteran666]

Sorry I misunderstood and agree

[AleDeEurope]

Lol it's ok. Just look at my profile pic and you'll understand my stance on all this xD

[Chief16]

Any form of socialism or left wing idealism creates more problems than it solves. Liberals just like to live in denial.

[Rissyanne]

Great take... you nailed it. Now am dying to see what the liberals say.

[Iraqveteran666]

Thankyou. Its important to challenge other peoples views.

[normalice]

I actually don't give a damn about the inevitable WWIII. I'm just annoyed that so many poor people rush to the defense of rich people taking more power for themselves. Because when it comes down to it, that's the only policy that distinguishes the "right" from the "left." Everything else (abortion, gay marriage, gun rights...) is window dressing, and you could come up with a right or left argument for or against them.

But the concept of helping one person live like a king at the expense of many others living in poverty is a purely conservative ideal. I don't understand why poor conservatives keep going for it.

[Iraqveteran666]

Because poor conservatives don't want to be spoon fed welfare or tossed scraps from wealthy privledged liberals tables all so they can virtue signal and make them feel better about their wealth. It's the super rich you talk about that supports the EU.

[normalice]

but that's all conservative rhetoric. I assure you no one has any interest in spoon feeding anyone. We simply don't want the rich to rob us of what we've earned, while they, themselves, do nothing useful.

[Iraqveteran666]

That's what conservatives want too. We want the opportunity to succeed, just look at Chicago, Detroit and parts of L. A. True more conservatives partake in welfare but they live in impoverished States and rural areas where earning a living is harder

[normalice]

yeah, I know they want it. That's why it's so frustrating to see conservatives voting against their own interests - because they are also my interests. All it takes is for some rich white guy to claim (with no evidence whatsoever) that mexicans are stealing jobs or whatever, and they eat it up like its meth. This is what politicians on right do for a living: they blame anyone but themselves, which guarantees the problems they cry about will never be fixed, because those same conservative politicians are, indeed, the actual cause of those problems. It's a con. Simple, but somehow effective. And it's really irritating to be ruled by con men because they've managed to con half the population by appealing to their baser instincts, instead of anything substantial.

[Iraqveteran666]

You think Hillary was any different she blamed straight white men for everything that's why she lost. Hillary was backed nearly every rich man going. What people find in rural areas is that they are being undercut by llegals willing to work for nothing.

[normalice]

i don't recall mentioning hillary. Why do conservatives always seem to think that name-dropping hillary is a sufficient excuse for Trumps egregious cons? The campaign is over. Hillary lost. You have to justify Trump by his own actions, now. And I can see why you would want to cling to hillary, because trump is really fucking it up, but you're not fooling anyone who doesn't want to be fooled.

[TheFlak38]

Well said. At the end of the day nationalism always wins. Always! Regardless of who the winner is. If Europeans of the present don't want to be the dead end of their line they will embrace nationalism. Otherwise they deserve to die out.

[JCT666]

You nailed it. Europe is becoming more far-right in recent years because of the failures of the EU's multicultural dream. It's very simple. Too bad that most of my generation here in the UK won't wake up, though.

[Paris13]

Good One, hun.
Europe is just too Elite.
Not seeing this any time too Soon by Noon. xx

[lord_chilled]

every country needs to stay a bit towards the right, politically. left wing politics is bullshit with sugar on it

[Blitzkrieger]

What is considered far right in Europe is actually just moderately right. Even parties that claim to be right wing are still in the left of the spectrum, when we look at western Europe that is. If we look at poland, now thats real right wing.

[StrangerMorrison]

Good thing people like you aren't really part of the EU anymore. We don't need any more lunatics here.

[Iraqveteran666]

Because open boarders and open immigration was sane.

[StrangerMorrison]

Definitely more sane than trying to pull off a North Korea and favor isolationism over a union that has maintained peace among its members for over 60 years now, which might actually be a new record in European history.

[Iraqveteran666]

NATO and the UN you mean and your forgetting about the Balkans. Britain isn't North Korea and their are plenty of countries Britain can deal with than the EU from America to Russia. Remember Britain is one of the big 3 without it it's just France and Germany draining their finances bailing out the next Greece.
https://goo.gl/images/WBEjz1

[Iraqveteran666]

https://youtu.be/RLWZwCWDD2k

[StrangerMorrison]

The Balkans are a mountain chain. I suppose you meant the country of Yugoslavia, which was certainly not part of the EU when it still had that name. By the way, you would be surprised about the political backgrounds of the Yugoslavian War if you bothered to educate yourself. Confused nationalism, genocide, the fallout of a union breaking apart, sound familiar?

[Iraqveteran666]

"a union that has maintained peace among its members for over 60 years now, which might actually be a new record in European history" your words and your wrong Europe wasn't st peace. Yugoslavia is part of Europe and for 60 years eastern Europe was occupied by a foreign power with a few uprising. Yugoslavia Genocide was a result of 50 years of Socialism. There's been plenty of Genocides in caused by socialism from communism to national socialism. Rather than trying to insult me maybe you should take a look at a European map and read a history book.

[Iraqveteran666]

Like the Turks?

[StrangerMorrison]

I'm so proud of you for finally figuring out that you should dislike my comment when verbal arguments simply fail you. Let me try nationalism, maybe then you will understand me. See, my great country is the center of Europe, in pretty much every way one can think of. Your country is respectable in its own right, but! Geographically, it's an island. Politically, it doesn't even want to be a part of Europe anymore (or more precisely, the EU, but you have shown me that you don't know the difference anyway). Thus, you have little to no authority to lecture me about European geography, history, culture, politics, or values. And you certainly don't live up to the idea of the classy British gentleman that the world respects. I've read some history books, but I guess you wouldn't approve of them anyway because mainstream history books are "fake news" written by communist alien illuminati jews, right?

[Iraqveteran666]

Here is an Alphabetical list of countries of Europe (not EU) I hope it educates you.
Albania
Andorra
Armenia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Kazakhstan
Kosovo
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macedonia (FYROM)
Malta
Moldova
Monaco
Montenegro
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
San Marino
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Turkey
Ukraine
United Kingdom (UK)
Vatican City (Holy See)
www.google.co.uk/search and a map showing the geography of Europe and here is one showing a map of the EU. https://goo.gl/images/2lDXwV
Authority is not needed to speak on facts geography, history, culture, politics. I had to get to one German who dropped out of highschool. Im afraid Eu countries dont want to be dominated by Germany just like they didn't want it in 1939. The EU has failed.

[StrangerMorrison]

Present day Germany doesn't even need to dominate anyone. We're among the most successful and wealthy nations in the world and if others take on our influence, it's because they look up to us and want to be like us. It's all peaceful. That's called acting like an adult, and it feels good. You might wanna try it.
Thanks for providing me with such an awesome list. It's unlikely that I'll ever forget something as basic as this, but if did happen for whatever reason, you would have saved me 2 seconds of looking that up. Well, since googling an alphabetical list of European countries appears to be the greatest intellectual effort you ever intended to put into this discussion, and also you're on the brink of applying Godwin's law (despite you being the rightist here), I shall politely excuse myself and suggest that you keep searching for professional help from someone more competent than me. Have a good day, Sir!

[Iraqveteran666]

Glad I could educate you on European geography and history. Good day.

[Dred1614returns]

You hit the nail on the head

[Iraqveteran666]

Apparently if you don't agree with the left your a fascist

[TheSpartan]

Why would I worry? This is a good thing.

[Iraqveteran666]

Exactly

[Anonymous]

Wer know you love the British NF , the EDL and UKIP

[Iraqveteran666]

@jaquesvol why anonymous I don't block and I invited you?

[disgustingweebtrash]

t. Jaquesvol believing that UKIP is far-right, really makes you think...

[Opinion Owner]

@disgustingweebtrash believing Niel Farage is a leftist.. :D makes you think.

[disgustingweebtrash]

>Niel Farage

I am going to assume that you meant Nigel Farage, when did I exactly imply Nigel Farage is a leftist?

[Opinion Owner]

@disgustingweebtrash Farage is certainly an extremist, no doubt.
If UKIP isn't rightist, there's only leftist that's possible.

[disgustingweebtrash]

I don't think you can read. I said they are not far-right. They are right wing, not far right. Farage is not an extremist. I would like some insight on that with some evidence to back up anything extremist he has done.

[Iraqveteran666]

@disgustingweebtrash extremists advocate violence to achieve political aims he just wanted out of Europe

[disgustingweebtrash]

@Iraqveteran666 according to libtards (I. E the ridiculous old man who can't read and went anonymous even though it's obvious) that is extremism.

[Iraqveteran666]

@disgustingweebtrash alright let's not get personal.

[disgustingweebtrash]

@Iraqveteran666 Just stating the obvious

[Opinion Owner]

@disgustingweebtrash An ad hominem is a fallacy

[disgustingweebtrash]

You having nothing to defend your argument which leaves you open to attack. Put up some defences, give me some actual valid information which I can debunk or begone under your bridge, troll

[Opinion Owner]

https://i.imgur.com/FKdZToh.png

[disgustingweebtrash]

A leftist quoting a hard conservative, ludicrous. Begone if you've got nothing to back your claims up.

[Opinion Owner]

@disgustingweebtrash She spoke your 'language' :D

[Opinion Owner]

@disgustingweebtrash You'd understand Tatcher. If I quoted a moderate , you wouldn't understand it.

[Anonymous]

good one

[Iraqveteran666]

You disagree?