Is Boy Scouts of America sexist?

[mellifluous_girl]

Of couse, as indicated by the name of the organization, the Boy Scouts of America is America's "largest and most prominent values-based youth development organizations, providing programs for young people that build character, trains them in the responsibilities of participating citizenship and develops personal fitness" (from the Boy Scouts of America website).

There has been a lot of controversy over the limitations of enrollment into this program, and quite the handful believe the Scouts are sexist (in relation to recent transgender and female participation debates) and/or racist and biased on the account of political affiliation. Others believe that, since it's called the BOY Scouts of America, it's only right that the organization caters to males, as there are other scouting opportunities avaliable to females.

However, we (my family and I) recieved an email regarding my sibling's participation in the upcoming Cub Scout cake competition and the guidlines/rules for the competition. In the email, the rules specifically singled out female participation, whereas last year's guidlines were different. It reads that only male cooks should aid the scouts in baking their own cakes, and the 'fairer sex' should watch rather than intervene in the Scout's independent baking. It then notes that, "of course", siblings are allowed to participate and enter a cake with no limitations due to "race, gender or political preference. Last year's rules only specified cake guidlines and the rule that scouts should be making their own cake, with of course the aid of parents- no gender-based rules involved.

Are the Scout leaders intentionally discluding women participation, and is this too far over the line? Was it really necessary to change the guidlines or make these comments?
Is this instance a fair example of sexism in this organization? And how are single mothers supposed to follow these guidlines without having to withdraw their scouting children from the competition?

Updates

+1 y

This was an offical email sent out by Cub Scout leaders, not to be confused as a parent email.

Updates

+1 y

Also, this questions is NOT pertaining to the admission of females in Boy Scouts of America.. the purpose of including the information about otherly enrollment was directed towards outside involvment (whether it be a sibling, mother, transgender or other female individual, etc.).

[hellionthesagereborn]

No. Unless we want to claim girls only schools are sexist, girls quire, girl scouts, and sororities etc. etc. etc. are sexist. The guidelines being no woman helping is simply to ensure that the boys themselves learn the skills necessary rather then rely on there mothers to do it for them. There is nothing sexist about it what so ever. In fact I would say claiming it is sexist is itself sexist as you are demanding that something always allow women to participate despite all the many many many things that are exclusive to women. You cannot demand women be involved in everything or its sexist but then have men excluded from many things and claim its not. Its one or the other. Women don't have to be involved in everything, men and boys can have something for themselves, there is nothing wrong with that. Further more it would also help for these boys to interact with there fathers and male role models, something that is sorely lacking in todays society, all of which is shown to be substantially better for the boys (Like how we have nearly no male teachers despite studies showing that male students do better with male teachers, meanwhile we hear constant complaints that we don't have enough women in male dominated fields and talk about women not having strong role models while ignoring that males have very few role models left as they are contiously being pushed out in favor of women being involved.). So no, its not sexist, its sexist to claim it is and its perfectly okay for boys to learn to do things on there own and/or be encouraged to work with there fathers for a much needed father son bonding and have a male role model. Any one arguing to take that away is rather sexist. As for the rare occasion that it doesn't fit this criteria, quite frankly to obsessing over the minority, the exceptions to the rules to the detriment of the majority is not particularly wise or fair.

[mellifluous_girl]

I'm not demanding that women be included in all Boy Scouts events. I suppost that there is separation in many cases- I'm questioning the thought behind this rule, when there are a handful of single mothers who have no spouse or have adopted and the Scout leaders know this (small communitiy, so everyone knows everyone).

I agree with what you have to say; women shouldn't be in everything involving guys, and there should be some separation.

[mellifluous_girl]

support*

[hellionthesagereborn]

So they should alter there stance because of a rare occurrence? Does that seem logical to you? Should we just stop wearing seat belts because under a hand full of situations they are actually more dangerous? No, because those situations are rare and over all it is better to have them. Same goes for this, why would you change everything to suit the few while ignoring the many. This is how it works, this, what you are suggesting creates a foot hold, it alters how things are done allowing women to get increasingly more involved for the sake of "fairness" which ends up creating unfairness. Keep women out of boyscouts, if there is an issue let it be decided case by case, they shouldn't alter how they do things based upon a rare possibility. And in the case of single mothers its even more important because as I said boys need male role models they need to be able to do something on there own or with other boys/men.

[hellionthesagereborn]

The fact is the boy scouts will make allowances if its necessary so there is no need to alter there stance otherwise its an excuse for the mother to get involved when they are trying to encourage father son bonding. I don't think its right to demand that be taken away, as I said you remove this and make the exception the rule as you are suggesting and its just going to fall apart.

[OlderAndWiser]

1. Encouraging young boys to seek guidance from their fathers and other older males is a good thing. Boys usually have no problem with going to mom for help but that is not what boys always need.

2. Why should everything in our society be gender neutral and blind to the differences between the sexes? If you believe that there are no differences between males and females, the logical conclusion is unisex bathrooms and locker rooms.

3. Girls have equal opportunities though Girl Scout programs.

4. Single mothers should not rest until they find a male role model for their sons. No, mom is not an adequate substitute for a male role model (despite however many hate responses I receive for this comment.)

[Salohcin22]

I completely agree. Plus, if Boy Scouts is sexist, then Girl Scouts is way worse. They allow moms in which I already think goes way too far, but I'm glad they don't allow girls to cook so that the guys can learn and feel independent cooking their own meals. If anything, keeping the mom from helping to bake the cake keeps them from falling back on gender roles where the mom will just end up baking the cake for the son, no one learns anything, and The dad and the son still can't cook and bond.

I would say she has an exception in her case though. I don't thin they thought about single moms when they made that rule, but If you want him to stay with the rules, you could always make him cook it himself. Just tell him how to follow a recipe or watch a youtube video. Scouts should be more about becoming independent and able-bodied more than anything.

[KnightCross]

amen!

[Signinggirl123]

If the girls scouts were the same as the boy scouts i would say they aren't. Coming from a former girl scout, whose brother was a former boy scout, i can say they are different organizations for the kids who join. The camping experience is more in the woods and learning camping skills with the boy scouts, while all the girl scouts in my troop did was camp behind a fire house while we just hung out. We didn't even earn a badge. Not to say being a girl scout was boring but it is different. Because of this i would say it is sexist if it doesn't allow female boy scouts to participate. If i were a parent i would let my girl or boy join which ever organization fit their personalities more.

[whatsername]

I don't think the organization is sexist. I do think that we should drop boy/girl scouts and just have scouts. I hated girl scouts because sewing, baking, and macaroni necklaces were always super boring to me. I always thought boy scouts sounded more fun. I think that girls and boys should be able to learn skills taught by both organizations. All kids should have a way to learn basic survival skills and also home skills. Other countries are doing just fine with co-ed scouts, so we can too.

I know boy scouts has venture crews that are co-ed, but that's only availible to teens and not young children

[whatsername]

now i see that i missed the point of your question, I'm sorry. I do think that the rule may be overstepping boundaries. my friends mom is a troop leader so if they start making everything male inclusive they could be breaking up many troops

[mellifluous_girl]

That's fine, I think a lot of poeple did.. I should have phrased it better. Thanks for your input!

[MlleCake]

I think they may just want to avoid moms making the cakes, but that does stereotype moms a little, though the truth is, women are much more likely to be experienced cooks and bakers. As an organization they are much less sexist than they were in the past, but they do have an interest in boys lives and helping them achieve goals in learning skills and being of service. I think it is ok for it to be an organization for males so long as they keep their ideas current, and advocate respect for women and girls.

[jenny33]

That would be like saying " Girl Scouts is sexiest" do I agree about transgender absolutely not. I have a few friends who are transgender and deep down inside they believe they are male inside a female body so I wouldn't see the problem with that, but that's me, some people just have to ruin it for others and spread there opinions about things they know nothing about

[madhatters4]

i don't think so... it sounds to me like they are simply encouraging boys and fathers to work on this project together and if nothing else i think it's almost anti-sexist since the traditional notion is women are the cooks of the home.

the only place i find it a bit troubling is if the boy scout doesn't have a father or male figure in the household. i'd hope there would be an allowance that a mother could assist in this circumstance

[SovereignessofVamps]

Agree especially with the last paragraph.

[evenlift]

Not all sexual discrimination is sexism. Only irrational sexual discrimination is sexism.

I do not think that excluding females from the Boy Scouts is sexist, though, when they make exceptions for siblings for example, it undermines the point.

(My problem with the Boy Scouts is the religiosity and the ethics of altruism, but that's another story.)

I do wonder, though, why females are apparently so desperate to open up male-only spaces, such as Boy Scouts, social clubs and golf clubs. Men are such oppressive patriarchs allegedly, and, yet when they want to hang out without women, women won't let them! Pretty much the only men you see doing this to women-only spaces are the 'transgenders'.

[mellifluous_girl]

What about with mothers? Shouldn't they be allowed to participate in aiding thier child in their extracurriculars? Especially if they are single mothers (father is deceased, child is adopted, etc.)

[evenlift]

If anything, it helps such a child to learn the importance of having a father, something that a mother cannot be, how ever good she is (and regardless of any blame or lack thereof on her part).

[Danny_dan92]

Honestly, that's why they have the girl scouts. Yes I will agree that they should let a girl join the boy scouts if that's what she really wanted to.

However I have a good solution, if let's say your sibling wants to be a part of the boy scouts because of the activities they partake in and what they learn... maybe she should ask if they can implement some of those things in the girl scouts.

For example a girl knowing how to start a fire is not wrong and it is actually good for her since she will gain a better understanding of how fires work. I don't know I was never in the boy scouts but I do know that they teach boys how to survive out in the wild besides just serving the community

[mellifluous_girl]

I apologize, the second paragraph may have been misleading. This question more strongly pertains to the third paragraph and the female role in a boy's life in Boy Scouts. What are you're thoughts on this?

[Danny_dan92]

Honestly I'm not against it, if a girl wants to do things that boys do then no one should stop her. But they should tell her of the dangers and risks of it since typically the things boys and men do are more dangerous

[mellifluous_girl]

Baking is too dangerous for a mother/female figure? That's the thing: it's only a cake competition, it's not anything dangerous. If anything, it's more dangerous to the child because restricting the female figure's participation in helping the child use the oven and bake their own cake could lead to the hild getting injured, especially if there is no fatherly figure who can help (only the mother or felmale sibling is avaliable).

[Danny_dan92]

Don't get me wrong some of the stuff girls do can be very dangerous. But I will say men take more risks,

Like hunting, starting fires, chopping down trees. All these are outdoorsy related tasks that hold a large amount of potential harm to the individuals that do them

[edwinteague]

It isn't necessarily inherently sexist to exclude females in BSOA. There are plenty of organizations, jobs, etc, that show favoritism towards a particular gender. There is nothing objectively wrong with favoring one gender over another, it's simple human nature to create situations of exclusivity. That's a small part of how society works and there's nothing inherently wrong with it. There are plenty of opportunities for everyone, there's no reason to potentially create false senses of oppression or victim hood. I'm personally in the camp of people who think transgendered people have a mental disorder. I feel the only way to properly deal with trans people is to not agree with their disorder and either let them be who they want to be or get them treatment should they want it.

[Dred1614returns]

I'm was an Eagle Scout. I discarded anything that had to do with my affiliation with BSA when they allowed trannies in. They ruined a good thing.
Anyway, to your question, is this an official email from the cub scouts, or is this just something sent out by a parent?
Either way, it's called the BOY scouts for a reason, it's about young men and their male role models. It's not sexist.

[mellifluous_girl]

And if the child has no male fatherly role model in his life? (i. e. deceased father or never knew his father) Shouldn't single mothers be allowed to aid their child without ridicule?

[Dred1614returns]

Of course they should.

[Dred1614returns]

In fact, I'd applaud a single mother that gets a kid involved in scouting.

[Dred1614returns]

*I
Just noticed that.

[mellifluous_girl]

Then isn't it unnecessary or wrong to purposely add guidlines to a family-orientated competition (encouraging family involvment and aid) that discourages female involvment? This directly affects single parents who have male children enrolled in Boy Scouts. (see third paragraph above).

[Dred1614returns]

Not at all. It should always be the father to help out the scout.
Only in his absence should the mother step in.

[mellifluous_girl]

Exactly my point. If there is NO father figure, and "only in his absence should the mother step in", shouldn't these guidlines NOT include rules about only "male cooks" being involved?

It may also be worthy to note that there are a couple children in the pack that are raised by single mothers and others whose fathers are not always readily available to participate (i. e. due to work, business trips, etc.) and all of this is to the knowledge of our many Scout leaders.

[Dred1614returns]

Isn't it common sense that if the father in unavailable the mother should step in? One would think it's so obvious that they wouldn't need to include in their publications.

[mellifluous_girl]

These gender-based guidlines weren't included last year, and there was no problem with child involvment in the competition and the event ran very smoothly. Mothers helped out all the time, in areas such as aiding the child in baking/using the oven to even accepting roles in entering and organizing cakes at the competition when ASKED to participate. But now, there's the question that arises with the changes in rules: why would they feel the NEED to add this? Yes, it is common sense that the mother should help if the father can't, and that was very obvious and accepted last year. But why change now, and why is this common sensical idea being restricted by authorities?

[Dred1614returns]

Who the hell cares why they added it? It doesn't change anything. It just clarifies they way things should be run.

[MazeOfLove]

I wouldn't call it sexist based on your description since sexism means prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, on the basis of sex. And while I think that they should have made an exception to policy to allow mothers to help with their sons activities, calling them sexist implies that the reason that they did not allow it was because of an issue with women. What I believe it to be is an overemphasis/reliance on tradition. Some organizations are so wed to tradition so as to avoid looking rationally at things like this.

[kff116311]

That's like saying are car salesmen honest? Of course if you get down to the "name" of the Boyscout institution; yes it's sexist... as in, it's a club for boys and young men. No different than the gender identification Girlsscout of America group which has only "females". So stop with the gender identity and let our youth of boys will be boys and guiros will be girls "be" in the right gender specific clubs, scouts, that assist them in their child rearing years.

Also... my sons Pack has an equal amount of Den Mother/Leaders who are females, and do a damn great job of additional MG just the right amount of breaking down barriers but at the same time instill the young men's integral "male" role within their little minds.

by the way... stupid f'n Liberals asking stupid questions.

[mellifluous_girl]

First off, I'm taking about female firgures, as in mothers or female gaurdians. They specifically discuded "mothers, grandmothers, aunts, etc" from helping their kids. Sooo... single mothers? This wasn't in the rules last year, and yes, there were plently of mothers who helped out and were asked to volunteer, and the event ran very smoothly with the accumulation of male and female volunteers. But why put this in now?
Also hun, don't assume my political standpoint, thanks. I don't appreciate accusations of being a "stupid f'n Liberal"; it's really small-minded of someone to assume someone's political ties based off a QUESTION. A friggin question.

[godfatherfan]

I am an Eagle Scout. I was in Scouting from age 8 til 18. I had my three sons in it also. When I was young, women could be cub scout leaders but they could not be leaders in Boy Scouts. Now women can be leaders in Boy Scouts. While being leaders is fine, NO girls should be allowed in. NOT EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD NEEDS TO BE CO-ED. There is a benefit to having the Boy Scouts have only boys and the Girl Scouts have only girls. I am so fed up with both sexes pushing themselves into organizations that they should not be in. Girls should not be playing on football teams with boys. Boys should not be in girls gymnastic teams or any girl football teams. etc...

[Jo1001]

I think the new guidelines were meant to encourage fathers/uncles/grandfathers to help the boys with their baking, and to discourage them giving it to their moms to do. I don't think it was meant to be sexist

[WalterRadio]

First of all, TGs pretend to be a sex they are not. Basic biology cannot be overruled by any amount of hormones, surgery, or self delusion.

In case you haven't noticed, and I am sure you haven't, there are many programs, even government sponsored ones, designed to assist in the development of girls, but there are very few for boys.

There is the "Society of Women Engineers". But there is no "Society of Men Engineers" as just one of many examples.

There is sexism going on, but it isn't catering to boys and men. It is excluding them.

[Nyx_85]

Obviously they know women are MUCH better at baking cake. Thus they don't want any of the boys to have an unfair advantage.

JK!

I would be FAR more concerned about the idea of the Boy Scouts (as an organization. Not it's individual members) being racist than sexist.

[Nyx_85]

*its

[Iraqveteran666]

Girls have their own groups which boys are not allowed to join. This organisation is about teaching young boys how to become men while teaching them basic skills and civic responsibility at a time when young boys have few male role models. SJW's and feminists are already pushing the same in sports wanting transgender girls and girls in boys sports such as wrestling and football if that's what they want but won't budge if its the other way around a boy or a transgender wants to compete against the girls. In short in the intrests of equality instead of special treatment all girls groups (scouts etc), girl sports, competitions, women's groups should be opened to male membership and competition. Also for that matter all companies where white women are over represented should be forced to hire based of gender and racial demographics. It's time for true equality over special treatment.

[bang678]

My brother was a boyscout and therefore I was involved as well. I never seen anything really sexist, nor were their troops emails worded like that.
Although gay scouts or leaders were technically not allowed, his troop was kinda like "yeah an individuals sexual orientation is none of our business... so... they can join, who cares?"
I think its a troop by troop case.
I honestly see girl scouts tend to be a little more sexist.

[DarkHumorRUs]

I don't understand what's wrong with being proud of being a man. I mean the only thing they're really saying is that getting help from a woman would be too easy, because stereotype or not, women are often still the ones who cook well.

[mellifluous_girl]

There's nothing wrong with being proud of being a man. But you admitted it yourself: women are often still the ones who cook well. Historically, women would stay home and cook and clean and care for the kids while husbands worked and supported the finances of the family. So why would it be a crime for women to help teach their kid how to bake/cook if they are the better cook in the family? (not saying guys don't know how to cook)

[DarkHumorRUs]

It wouldn't be a crime. It would just give the kid an unfair advantage. What, is there something wrong with having a kid do something on his own?

[mellifluous_girl]

No, but young 7-10 year olds don't necessarily know how to properly use an oven. They are too young to obtain these skills on their own- they have to be taught. And if mothers helped the kids or walked them through the process (giving cake directions while letting them mix and add ingredients, but putting it in/taking it out of the oven for them- just as a father would do), they would be better cooks in the future.

[DarkHumorRUs]

The organization is based on boys becoming men. Many activities which the Scouts are required to do are more about learning to be independent than learning to do something such as cook. Yes, it's a useful skill, but learning HOW to gain a skill when you have no idea is also an important lesson.

[mostwomenshouldstfu]

We had a pussy whipped troop leader whose empowered mom called all the shots and wouldn't let her precious baby boy camp outside of their backyard, which meant the rest of the troop suffered as well. The troop disbanded after two years of rule under our arts and craft leader and last I heard that boy was knocking on random neighbors doors dressed in women's clothing for shits and giggles. I remember my father had to go help this boy's father pump 6 ft of water out of his basement because this "man" didn't know how a damn sump pump worked.

[TacosRAwesome]

So once upon a time in the past I was a Girl Guide, in another country (not America), so this is what I remember. Once upon Lord Baden Powell opened up a club for boys to teach them survival skills. This is the Boy Scouts group. Soon after, girls wanted something similar so his wife started the Girl Scouts /Guides group. So just because the Boy Scouts dont accept girls doesn't mean there is an equivalent alternative. I don't find it sexist.

[ADFSDF1996]

Nope, it's not sexist. Besides they already have Girl Scouts. Not only that, a lot of schools have "girls only" groups and no "boys only" groups. There are a lot of female only organizations as well, yet nobody says they are sexist.

[cheapshotbob]

how come no one complains when guys want too join a girl club? oh wait its because there not girls and guy dint want t be in a club for girls. this trans gender stuff is really wrecking America. i mean they already have the right to go in a bathroom with a little boy or girl go and no one can do anything about it , are they wanting to blatantly molest these kids now?

[Phoenix98]

It's the BOY scouts, not the gay scouts, not the transgender scouts not the girl scouts and not the whatever the hell you identity as scouts.

Also it's not sexist because the girls have something called GIRL scouts for girls which does pretty much the same exact stuff the boy scouts does except tailed for girls and women only.

It's the boy scouts and boys should be the only ones put into it end of discussion.

[cth96190]

For girls who want to do scout things, there is the girl scouts.
The boy scouts is not sexist.
The attack on the boy scouts is part of the Cultural Marxist agenda to destroy all traces of masculinity and male identity.
To girls and women who are so moronic that they claim that the want to join the boy scouts, I would say: "Piss off and join the girl scouts. That is why it exists."