On one hand, yes, it shares a lot of membership with the MRA movement, which is incredibly stupid. And often it will be, as you said, just "men whining".
On the other hand though, we are in a time in our society where sub-standard men are being told, "You aren't owed a girl," which is a good thing to tell them.
However, we seem to have trouble bridging that gap into, "And you probably never will be loved by one either."
The fact is, is that, like me, there are a lot of invisible men out there, and to paraphrase Louis CK, we're sick of being told, "there's someone for everyone", because that's not true. I am continuously humiliated, gossiped about and "put in my place" whenever I DARE to let a woman know I'm interested in her. Instead of holding out hope, I've decided it's best if I give up. I'm constantly being told I'm creepy and that I frighten women by just being around. So instead of making people feel uncomfortable, I just go to work, work on myself like I always have (I'm a pretty amazing human being, before you try to pull that condescending "you have to work on yourself" card) and ignore women.
You can say it's a "confidence" thing, but how the fuck would you feel if no one had ever given you a compliment, and women and men alike are totally fine with mocking you to your fucking face. Always happily telling you how worthless you are, like it's a joke you're supposed to laugh along with. Belittling you, just because they can and think it's funny.
There are some of us men out there who will be invisible AT BEST no matter what we do or try or say. I don't think it needs a movement, but I do think the message needs to be spread around in society more that probably 25-33% of men just need to give up, and that NO we're not "owed" a girl by life, and women need to "man up" and just tell us straight up that no one will ever love us.
Of course, they won't, by and large, because when a woman gets knocked up by the guy she actually likes and then he leaves for a better woman, she needs us to help her pay for his little fucking brat. So she'll pretend she likes us and cling to us like a fucking leech, have us adopt his shitty, stupid kid and quietly hate herself, wishing the man who impregnated and left her will come back and rescue her from *shudder* us. Oh, and we're expected to be grateful.
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I think most MGTOW guys are just frustrated about lack of success in the dating world. I do think that there are some who legitimately are MGTOW and believe in the movement but it doesn't mean they are anti-women but just anti the establishment that says men have to pair up.
i'm fine with it as a true movement with an aim that takes steps for equality but i am 100% tired of all the men and women whining about how unfair stuff is but doing absolutely nothing to instigate change... whether they are MGTOW, Feminist, or label themselves as a part of any movement but don't do anything to push for true change
Is feminism stupid? Some people will say yes. Some will say no. Sometimes movements themselves aren't stupid, but they get stupid people in them. No matter how noble the original intentions are people are always going to come in with their own ideals. And the most negative are going to be the ones that get the most attention.
Original MGTOW had NOTHING to do with hating on women or whining about them. It was men trying to live their lives without interference from what they see as being an unfair government, society and a lot of women (and men) they encounter. They could date if they chose to but they would be very selective about whom they dated. It was about them holding themselves up to a certain standard and not getting involved with any women who weren't up to par. Not taking any shit from anybody.
Issue is you get quite a few guys that are angry. Which yeah some of them are rightfully so. They've had a bad run of things. Though some of them are just plain rude and sexist. Like I said negative people get the most attention.
ONE thing I really don't like about MGTOW is that if any guy says he's MGTOW yet has a partner or OMG! even a wife a lot of other guys attack him for it. He could say "Don't worry fellas. She's really chill" and they are like "You are stupid! You are going to get taken to the cleaners! All women do this! AAAHHH!!!" Ok maybe it won't work out. But maybe it will. It's his relationship/marriage and not for anyone else to judge. And isn't going your own way supposed to be about GOING YOUR OWN WAY? But too many MGTOW guys are like "No THIS is the path! Keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle at all time! Do you attempt to feed the wildlife! Do not stray!"
Go your own way... OUR WAY!! lol uh... how about letting people decide for themselves?
I can partially understand some of it... but the overwhelming majority (especially here which is really the only exposure I've had to it) seem to be quite bitter based on previous bad experiences and are determined to paint all women with that same brush.
Same with radical feminists, and moving it beyond egalitarianism and into women dominating society - their rants and antics are ruining it for all women who do want to call themselves feminists but don't want to be associated with that bullshit.
Some of the things said by self proclaimed MGTOW enthusiasts just seem over the top and looking for a reaction. It just kind of makes me think if they were a little more focussed on human behaviour and able to read women as well as they THINK they can they wouldn't have been taken "advantage" of by a woman. At some point people need to take responsibility for their actions and their lives and many MGTOW seem to have a story where she ruined their lives and took everything... but why did he let her?
Hmm anyway, some of I get but the rest just seems like guys who were hurt (and could have potentially been prevented or reduced) but that's their business
I think all gender segregation groups are fucking dumb. Lol. I think the finger pointing, self-victimization and whining of "groups" in general is a bunch of crap.
Everybody needs a tamp, snickers and a good wank these days I swear.
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MGTOW isn't a bunch of guys whining about women part of the movement job is to educate young men that what society, and media has told them about women is a lie. It's to aware young men about the dark, cruel side of women and to not be blind sided by their beauty and get taken advantage of. It's basically to aware men that women are just as shitty as men and will take advantage of you if not more so than a man would. This is what many people refer to as whinning but it really is just trying to educate young men about real female behaviour.
The other part of the movement is self improvement and what you can do to improve yourself as a man.
The last key thing to look at is MGTOW does a logical analysis of the dating game in terms of cost/benefits for men and realise that it is a very bad deal for men who are not blessed with top 1% genetics (nice face/tall) or born with type A personality. Thus, for such men it's better to go your own way and not waste your life trying to please women.I have observed the MGTOW phenomenon for awhile now.
I don't identify as one, but I think they have several legitimate grievances.
People seem to assume that they are just losers who can't get women.
In truth, many are divorcees who have seen the dark side of marriage.
They are bitter, you say?
Having half of your property taken, getting kicked out of your house, and only getting to see your kids every other weekend will do that.I think mgtow is really for those unlucky guys that had really bad and bitter experiences throughout their entire life with women. I still think that if guys just want to quit then just simply quit and give up on women, love, dating, sex, relationships, marriage, etc. altogether but WITHOUT having to place blame on anybody or anything else. No point of just associating themselves with just another crowd because of their experiences. Besides there is very little to no control to what happens to all of us in our lifetime anyway, why not just relax and not exhaust ourselves any further, creating even more frustrations for ourselves and just accept reality for what it is, that it was never fair to begin, can't be fair, and who the fuck ever said it was going to be fair to begin with?
I'm surprised they don't hate on and place enough blame on the players, dickheads and assholes that have money, status with huge egos.
I guess it's just that not all quitters are the same.What is so stupid about us men that perfer to be single and have no desire to be in a relationship or have kids. We live the way we want to and not how somebody else wants us to live so everyone should respect that and not tell us how to live our lives.
I am sure there are plenty of women who don't want relationships or kids either like this one women I know at my work, no one is forcing her to do this and she has said multiple times she does not want kids or a relationship with anyone and everyone at work respects that.By listening to some of their monologues, they actually make some quite legit points that are hard (if possible at all) to counter, as long as you're relying on logic, not emotions.
Are they stupid? Most definitely not.
I'd describe them as being "pragmatism being taken up to eleven".If it's a guy actually just living the way he wants to live, then I'd say no.
It becomes stupid when it's guys who are just bitter about their lack of success with women who latch onto the idea and act like they're defeating women and feminism.
I don't know if they realize that women who had no interest in them aren't going to care.It's reactionary to the development of what women has become - mostly thanks to feminism and such moevments.
Is it the wrong approach to deal with things? Yes. Is it understandable that it happens? Also yes.
So just saying "it is stupid" is too simple when there is some deeper lying issues being shown. Just look at the equivalent of Japan's herbivores movement that is around the block a few years longer.Yes. They're the male equivalent of feminism. Just whiny idiots who can't get laid.
There looking for support from other guys because they got hurt often through divorce which is a nasty business.
While i've never been personally MGTOW and im sure like feminism it takes different forms there aren't many support groups just for men.
I can see a place for it to help guys out.How do you define MGTOW? If you mean those who define themselves that way and constantly whine about women on the internet, then yes.
If you mean guys who are just tired of the whole dating/relationship BS and prefer to go without for a while instead of dealing with it, then no.People here seem to have a lot of different defenitions on mgtow. I consider myself mgtow, but i don't hate women. On the contrary, i love women and would love to find someone i could have av happy relationship with. Mgtow to me just means being aware that a lot of women will just use you if you let them. To not spend my life trying to impress and make everyone else happy, but do what I want to do without worrying what random women think of it.
MGTOW is illustrative of what's wrong with men these days. Do women hurt your feewings? Whine and cower. That'll show 'em.
That's not exactly accurate. Most MGTOW just don't want to play the dating game, and they really don't revolve their life around women. Are there MGTOW who intentionally "whine" about women? Of course, but most don't really care about women.
Men "going their own way"
keywords: "going", "their own way"
Whine about women nonstop and blame women for their problems instead of truly going their own way.
Not so much going their own way anymore.
@JudgmentDay just letting you know.I wish all MGTOW and Feminists would have a battle to the death and physically remove themselves from society.
These guys are fools who just realized they were fools.
Here is the bit of wisdom from the old "Do not trust anyone. Especially beautiful women. The more beautiful they are, the easier it is for them to harm you."I understand that guys are wary of commitment and to a degree it's justified. What most guys don't get is that girls are in the same situation. Just say she partners up with a guy, has a kid with him and then he up and leaves. She's left looking after the kid, plus she's undateable because single guys won't date a mother.
I know this is going to hurt some men out there. But you have to realize in life you can't always going to get what you want no matter what. You have to basically deal with the hand that you are dealt in life.
I think it's irrational and pointless... Any gender segregation movement is pointless.
like feminism, it started out as well-intentioned; now, like modern-day :feminism", mgtow is internet cancer that needs to die.
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