Ladies, Don't Be Scared to Take the Initiative! (Page 2)
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If the fella you have your eye on is anything like me; he may be so busy with other stuff he hasn't noticed subtle hinting :)
"... I've never asked out a guy before cause I expect if they like me too, they should care enough about me to come forward"
This sentiment ^^, copied from a female reply here, is typical of the mindset of most women and is the primary reason most women don't and never will take initiative. Women are sexist and entitled at heart.
It is literally hypocritical, is it not?
You want them to message you first because if they like you, they would.
But if you like them, you won't message first. But you are supposed to because if you liked them, you would message first.
This is just one of many paradoxical things I have seen and heard from women.
We have to be rich, but not vain. Strong, but sensitive, manly yet emotional. We have to be taller than them, we have to be stronger than them but they dont like when we are stronger than them because they are afraid. We have to have a job to pay all the bills for them, but we also need to spend more time with them.
HOW? How the fuck do you expect me to go work 60+ hours, and then somehow spend more time with you, and listen to your piddly drama bullshit "omg, our neighbor Sam, he decided to cut the lawn at 10 this morning. how rude, like people are sleeping still"...
Then maybe get up and get a job? You won't be there to hear his supposedly loud lawn mowing...
Exactly! I wouldn't call them sexist, but traditions die hard, even when gender equality is now becoming a reality.
Some women think it is the manly thing to do to take the initiative, but it is also the thing men risk when they approach you. What about her not caring enough to take some initiative?
I feel this is why some guys get stuck in a rut in a relationship too. Women think that just by being there it is enough to prove she cares and adores him, but barely takes any initiative to keep things fresh, hot, passionate, romantic, etc. It is like, if the guy doesn't do all the work, she feels he doesn't "care enough". What if the guy starts to feel you don't care and appreciate him so that is why is starts to pull away or slacks off?
That is why I always say, treat us like kings and you will be damn sure we will treat you like queens! It is a two-way street ladies!
To me, this idea that just by being around and giving your time is enough to show you care about a man, is where the real entitlement resides. It is this idea that the guy is lucky just to get some of your time and that is enough to make him feel wanted, adored, loved, and so on. No wonder some clueless guys feel like they need to put a woman on a pedestal. They think they have to do all the proving...
I'm sorry, but unless you've been in that girls shoes, you don't have the right to judge. Most guys aren't as interested or invested in certain girls, and vice versa. Let's be real and honest here. I had crushes on guys who said I was weird, ugly, etc behind my back and in front of me without them even noticing that I was listening to everything they said. Then when I want nothing to do with them or never approach them to at least be friends, they want to know why.
And what makes it even crazy, I start dressing nice for the summer, all of the sudden they want to notice me? Excuse my french, but like my late great-grandfather have said with his famous words, "They're full of [you know what]"
@btbc92 A mature man wouldn't do that though. Most grown men don't enjoy the game playing and know what they want. If a woman approaches or takes the initiative and he isn't attracted, then chances are, he will still be friendly but eventually turn you down. This isn't too much different than what a woman does to men who approach. Of course, if a guy thinks he can just bed you, he may pursue you for that reason only, but then again, that same guy might do whether he approached first or you approached first, there is no difference.
The only difference is who is investing more effort and when a person who is investing themselves gets turned down, they take the brunt of the rejection.
This is why it is always best to go into these interactions with no set goal in mind but to get to know the other person. That goes for both sexes. Then if it doesn't work out, it doesn't feel like such a letdown.
Of course, this is very difficult if you have a crush on the person you are approaching. As you can see, the investment here is very high. You have high hopes and of course when those hopes are "crushed" then it will be even more of a letdown. The same goes for a guy who gets so enamored with a strange woman's beauty that when he approaches her, he only has his eye on the prize and not to actually get to know her like a regular human being. Doing that, putting someone so high on a pedestal, makes the sting of rejection that much worse.
It only comes down to one thing; are women okay with bucking traditional assumption that if a man doesn't approach, he must not have what it takes to lead in a relationship or have the same level of interest. The thing is, he very well may have the same level of interest, but you have to approach him to find out! That is the same thing guys have to do in the traditional scheme of things!
You see a guy checking you out? He made eye contact and smiled? Get closer to him and introduce yourself! I have had women bump into me and it led to me introducing myself. How could I not? It would be socially awkward and rude not to! Of course, those encounters didn't led to a connection, the conversation may not have flowed well, but that could have happened regardless if I did the approach or if she made the approach. Some people click better together than others and some guys need to get the rust off of their social skills (small talk, flirting, etc.)
I just think we would all be better served if people were more friendly to each other. You neve know, the guy that doesn't do that much approaching may decide to be more friendly because others have shown him that courtesy. Positivity and good vibes rub off! Feeling desired makes a person grow in confidence as well! So why not spread the love?
@freakyzeaky
"You see a guy checking you out? He made eye contact and smiled? Get closer to him and introduce yourself!" That's exactly what I am talking about. Lust. All it is is lust. That is what I am talking about. You do not approach somebody who is lusting after you. A person doesn't have to put them on the pedestal. It is about acknowledging that person's existence because you want to connect with them in INNOCENT ways. Not that perverseness your speaking of.
"he very well may have the same level of interest, but you have to approach him to find out! " But if your intentions are not correct then you are best to leave it alone before you wind up with somebody who is trouble. The point is men are not going to date women he is not interested in having sex with. That is not always the case with other people. And it's best to figure them out before you get too emotionally attached to people. Attraction is JUST attraction. Nothing more and nothing less. It all comes down to
intentions. And I sense that well because my beliefs are not the same as their belief's. So you have to be careful of who you associate with.
"Feeling desired makes a person grow in confidence as well! So why not spread the love?" Actually no. Because a person like me never enjoyed that kind of attention anyway. Everybody is not designed and built the same way. And you cannot approach people the same way. And not everybody is deserving of that kind of intimacy so soon and you have no idea who that person is really about. Being civil and courteous is one thing. Being attention seeking is another thing. And will not give that person the wrong idea, and that is why when I approach people it is to be friends. If that person doesn't want to be friends, then I walk. I will not beg.
I have to think rationally, not by my feelings or hormones.
I know very well what you are saying. I was only speaking of my childhood, not adulthood. I have friends who I had shut down because they know why, and we are still friends today. I'm overall disagreeing with the OP because that is too quick of a judgment on women. And every woman has their own reason why they personally don't approach. Constantly dealing with guys with that same mentality everywhere constantly every day you go out anywhere, can come off as scary and overwhelming because now you don't know who to trust anymore.
@btbc92 When you approach someone it is usually because you are interested in them no? And what is the first thing a person notices about someone? It is usually their physical features, the manner in which they carry themselves, the positive vibes they give off, and so on. Nowhere did I suggest that person should only approach with the intention of just having sex. It isn't always about lust, although initial attraction does include physical attraction.
If a guy looks your way, notices that you are gorgeous, then he will approach to get to know you better. The same thing can be applied to a woman who decides to approach a man. It is about interest and nothing more.
So again, where did I speak about "perverseness"? This also brings into question why a person should be shamed for their sexual attraction to another human being. After all, one of the defining aspects of a romantic relationship is sex...
... since platonic relationships can be the exact same, minus the sexual connection.
How do you know if a guy is a trouble until you interact with him? It doesn't matter if you approach first or if he approaches first. It is the same exact thing! And even then, there is always a risk that the guy will not be interested in a friendship or even a relationship, but still finds you attractive in a sexual way. BUT, that can happen regardless of who does the initiating.
Approaching in a friendly way to get to know someone is exactly where I was going with this discussion. Nowhere did I insinuate that a woman should approach in a sexually direct way. That all comes down to intent. If a woman intends to introduce herself in the hopes that the guy may be worth dating, she can still hold a friendly conversation, minus the sexual overtures.
Your argument all comes down to "not giving the wrong idea", but then, isn't that what guys have to do when they respectfully approach a woman he is interested in?
And it comes back to my original argument of tearing down the traditional idea that if a woman approaches a man, that she must be considered "easy" or "desperate". If the guy instantly assumes that you are approaching him because you must be interested in sex, that is his issue, not yours, and that is an issue that needs to be torn down by gender equality.
If a woman approached me, introduced herself, I would not automatically assume she wanted to fuck me unless she made those intentions clear. I think most mature men feel the same. If the woman is attractive, I may see where things lead, and if it feels right, ask her on a date. That is how these things tend to work.
@freakyzeaky As I said. It is HOW you approach a person. People are aware and can sense by the energy you give off in the atmosphere. "How do you know if a guy is a trouble until you interact with him?" As I just told another user, I am highly intuitive and sense a lot of different things about people. From where they been to what type of personality and character they have, to if their lying or telling the truth, or if their stories don't add him. I can easily sense things off of people and feel them.
I never approach people by how attractive they look. I approach people based on character. I don't mind of men approach me, but I let them know off the bat that I am not interested in people who only approach me because I look attractive. I don't judge by looks, I judge by what's in their heart. And if I don't like it, I smile and respectfully walk away. No charms here. You have to remember that I am also a Christian. And as one the Holy Spirit is with me and guides me. I hear
This whole Take is about taking initiative in approaching someone with the express purpose of dating. I get what you are saying about just wanting to be friends and how some guys will not want to just be friends. And yes, it all depends on context.
I have had women introduce themselves to me in a friendly way with no inclinations that either one of us wanted to pursue a relationship or sex. Most of the time, we didn't become friends and left it at small talk, but that is why people need to state their intentions. If you just want to go out and do friend stuff, then mention that! "I am looking for some new friends, and you seem like a cool person. I have this event coming up..." Right there the guy should know you are only interested in friendship and not dating him or having sex with him.
And yes, I know the conundrum of many men believing that men and women can't be friends. I find that very limiting and downright ignorant, but I digress.
something not good about them and I get that gut feeling that signals watch them. I will observe your every move like a hawk. I don't have to question. Especially when I make eye contact. The eyes are the mirror of the soul, is it not? I can see right through people, and even know sensitive information like where they've been and who they've been with. And possibly. Sometimes, done what with whom. And eventually, all of that information comes to light.
Matter of fact, let me tell you a story about a time when I was in summer school for 8th grade. A kid that I knew since 6th grade was a classmate that I often talked to. But kept my distance. Haven't seen him since. He tried to talk me up in the classroom full of his friends, smirking, mocking to each other about me. etc. Thinking I don't know what's up. So I pretended to be dumb. I already told him no, how I'm not allowed to date till 18. And if before that, he needs to personally ask my parents first. He said fine, he would do that
@btbc92 That makes sense. I mean warm approaching with the express purpose of getting to know someone and taking it slow is fine too. Most people meet their future husbands and wives through friends, start out as friends, and develop romantic feelings over time. If you want to wait until marriage that is of course perfectly fine.
What I mean to say is that you can't know someone's character until you interact with them. You can you only see what they present to you. Even if a friend vouched for a guy, told you he was an upstanding and devout Christian, you still won't know for 100% sure unless you interact with him.
In the most traditional sense, when a person is interested in dating, especially as a man in this modern world, he usually has to express that interest relatively quickly. That doesn't mean he needs to turn on his sexual energy right from the jump but is usually expected that he shows that he wants to get to know you for the express purpose of dating.
and still had his friends give me his number. I didn't care if it was fake or real. I then he them snickering in the background. See dumb chicks would think nothing of it till it's too late. I sensed something wasn't right so I did the unexpected. I went up to his desk with his circle of friends. Showed them the small piece of paper and ripped it up into tiny pieces. You can imagine the gasps and the shock on their faces. And I let it drop and fall on their desk. Looking directly at him. You know what he told me?
"Oh, I always knew you were nothing but a B****." I didn't cry. I laughed it off. And I told him directly to his face, that I'm not a B. And that he made the mistake to take me as a fool thinking that he really liked me when he didn't. And I already knew what type of person he was. I gained the knowledge that he doesn't treat his girlfriends right. In fact, he cheated on one of them. And I never had anybody told me this, until one day I overheard it 2 days AFTER this.
@btbc92 There are millions of people who have gotten into successful marriages while dating and having sex before marriage.
I consider myself a Christian too, but not nearly as devout. I have my own way of going about it though. To me, it is very personal. I always find that traditional and very religious Christians to be very judging, which I find to be completely the opposite of what Christ intended for his followers. They end up being so heavenly minded, they are no Earthly good.
What if I told you that when God said "I AM", he merely said that he is present and that presence is in all of us. In other words, just as Christ himself is God, the son of God, we too are sons and daughters of God. When Christ forgave his disciplines, he was essentially giving them the freedom to forgive themselves. That is because we are all ONE. We are all expressions of the same source, and when we crumble into dust, we go back to that source. We ARE God, minus our egos.
@freakyzeaky And like I said. I understand that as well. But I am a enuch in Christ, which is similar to what people call a nun today. Except without that craziness. I will not lead somebody on like that. I was only stating my dilemma when I wasn't celibate. Besides Christian guys aren't really interested in me either because I've been out of church since I was a child. Don't think I don't get judged in churches too. My circumstances not like other people. And I can't blame them. They need women who are already established in the Lord and in church. They don't want somebody who they think will be iffy because you're in and out of church. Which was against your own will.
You have to understand who God really is. Sin is still sin and nobody is exempt. You know this if you read and study your Bible. You know that there two different types of Christians. The spiritual Christians who follows God's commandments and focus on that, and the carnal Christians, who are worldly in nature, have conflicting spiritual views that goes against spiritual teachings, who makes friends with the world, but who holds 'Christian' as a title. And you do not want to be with somebody who is unequally yoked both physically and spiritually. Because now God will separate you from that person. I know. Because I speak to him and he tells me.
As long as the ones you're talking about is doing so in righteous judgement which you can give as long as your not currently doing the same sin, it is within their right if they are making and educated point. But it is overall none of their business what other people are doing sin wise. Because you got to remember, one day we too shall judge angels according to their own works.
@btbc92
I believe there is always someone out there for all of us who matches our values and believes in the journey we are going on. We all carry around this great shame, not just in our own past, but in our collective past. That is why I believe it always begins with forgiving ourselves and forgiving others.
Even that guy back in high school who treated you like dirt, who knows, he may go on to change his life around. That to me, is the foundation of Christianity, this idea that our egos, our pasts, our sins (I call it insanity), does not have to define us. It is just like when Christ forgave Mary Magdalene. He told her to sin no more. What he meant was, do not be controlled by your ego. Do not like your mind, your feelings, your past, or your future, control you. Our joy, the very Being within us, is already there. We just need to remove all the clutter to access it. Living in the present, watching our thoughts and emotions, that is the only way to salvation...
... that is the path to God. Not following rules, or laws, or attending Church, or judging others for their insanity. The path to God is already inside of us, not in structures of brick and mortar, or in a book. That book, the Bible, is only a signpost, it is only a pointer. The words aren't important, the gaps between them are.
I wish you well! I sincerely hope that you find joy in your life, whether that means finding a good husband, starting a family, or none of those things. It is hard living in this insane world where everyone is controlled by their ego, but it may only take intense suffering for some people to find their inner peace. Until then, we just need to discover that peace within ourselves.
@freakyzeaky Again. You know the words of Jesus. There are those who are called to marriage. Others who are not, and those who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom.
1 Corinthians 7 clearly states that it is wise for men not to marry. Or touch a woman in some translations. Marriage and getting to dating is a personal choice. There is no 'The one' for you. God is not selfish. We are. It is all about choice. I do not dwell on the past, but learn from it. I already ask God for forgiveness for holding on to that bitterness. My duty right now is focusing on living my life and doing his will without getting distracted by the pleasures of the world. Those who are called to marry, let them marry. But all I ask of them to seriously think things through. And those who are believers, to include the Lord in all of their decisions, and wait for his answer. What you have to understand is this is an everyday thing I must face. Even on here. And you may know by now, my opinions are not
the most popular of opinions.
Those boys who are now grown men aren't the first. And they most certainly won't be the last. God gave us a brain, we must learn how to use it. And follow his instruction as he has commanded. At this moment, the Lord is my husband. And he is all that matters to me.
And remember it is also said this: "Those who are given into marriage doeth good. Those who don't doeth better."
@btbc92 That is why I believe that all people should love one another from their Being, but only get married to a person who reflects that same love back but more intensely.
I respect your calling. I hope that you are able to walk that path honorably.
@freakyzeaky
You pretty much have the gist of it so far. However, I will say that it is a calling I chose for myself. For time is at hand and wasting and there is no time for that. It is still my choice as we all have choices. But not in this kind of world. Perhaps if it were another time unlike this one. But I will not share that with somebody who doesn't want what I have to offer. Others can make use of it. But I thank you.
It's tough for women to ask men now of all times because of the average woman's ego. They will freak out if they get rejected, maybe kill themselves or some shit. Men are the prize, not women. A lot of men are giving up on women so if a woman wants to make it in dating they have to toughen up, and humble themselves.
You said "This is 2017, why are we still stuck in these gender roles when it comes to dating?" ***Current Year Argument*** Do you think the passage of time negates the Natural-Order? It doesn't. Whether it's 1917, 2017, or 2117, the Natural-Order still applies. It will always apply, as it is not subject to time.
I've done this, and got the guy, but it's risky because the next thing you know, you're the one talking the initiative for everything, essentially... doing all of the work. Then guys gets bored when there's no excitement or challenge.
that's why you need to know when to pull back some. You are right about guys wanting SOME challenge but most women go way overboard with it.
It so easy for the girls isn't it! I am scared to ever ask a girl out, cause the after effects can be dangerous. I wish some girl text me this some day...
I know it sounds odd but I'd rather not have this change. Thankfully I'm old enough to be forgotten and practically a dinosaur but I really did enjoy choosing to who ask and in the past few years I've had to turn down two people and it wasn't pleasant. I really like not turning people down.
I think most women are well aware that it's fine for them to ask a guy out. They just don't want to. Very few people enjoy being the initiator and if people can get away with not having to be the initiator to get into a relationship they'll most likely take advantage of that.
Yes, girls please make the first move. I live by casually explained video 'whats the worst that could happen'. So one making the choice of whether a conversation begins for me is one of the nicest things you can do.
That's why apps that "force" women to take initiative like (Bumble for example) are superseding a lot of other apps. A lot of men are sort of getting tired of doing all the work
This should be quite obvious. Women have most of the advantage when it comes to attraction, so pretty much they will have an easier time asking the guy out.
My only concern is that by women chasing a man are they really getting to see his level of interest if she does the work for him? Probably not. Women should be open and friendly, sure. But the pursuer? I'm not so sure.
In my experience the only time women have ever been interested and talked to me first, they were only looking for someone to make fun of or make their guy jealous. That's it
Guys who only are interested in quick hookups honor this , but I can assure you that most men who are leaders of their lives , will In fact not appreciate the advance.
Interesting... I do most of my dating online, and while I've messaged guys first or asked for people's numbers, I generally don't set up the date.
I've always asked out any woman that i thought was interested in me. Big mistake. After years of looking and getting rejected, the only way I am going to get a girlfriend is if she takes the initiative and that only happens in movies.
Yes please. Most if not all the time, I don't get flirting. I've had friends in the past give me brain dusters because of this.
I disagree. I believe men should go after the women not the other way around. It's a turn off if a women take initiative in my view.
Speak for yourself
Why is it a turn-off for you?
@moviedude714: Because she seems too foward. Typically women that are like that are unsubmissive and kinda hoes.
I perfer a woman that gives a slight flirt or gesture as a sign that she is interested not outright approaches me. I'm the chaser not her.
The last time I chased a guy I was his rebound. Never again lol.
I will only approach guys who are good looking as they're the only guys worthy of my pussy.
What!!!
U value urself to ur pussy...
Nothing in the brain