It's Time for Men to Be Just as Hypergamous as Women

[Apope16]

For thousands of years a man's worth in the dating market has been his asset value and potential. His power is not in his personality or good looks or his kindness or his loving nature. What has always made women swoon has been his wealth and status.

As a matter of fact, a woman speaking to a group of girlfriends, she can tell them, "I met a man today and we are going on a date...he's a doctor." This will generate buzz and excitement. There will be more reaction from women knowing that a man is a lawyer than they would get if a woman said, "I am going on a date tomorrow and he is such a sweet guy..."

It is now the 21st Century. There are more female lawyers in our nation. There are more female college graduates. There are more women in positions of leadership in nonprofit or humanitarian sectors than ever before. While I know most women are paid less on average compared to men...there is now an equilibrium in the dating market.

It is time for men to consider the value that women can bring to the relationship financially. It is time for men to PROTECT THEIR ASSETS during times of divorce to ensure that they DATE UP or at least in equal status to them.

A woman's sexual market value begins to be reduced as they approach 35 years old. Men who have less income in their 20s will increase in sexual market place value in their 30s and 40s.

It is time for men to consider a mature woman who still has her good looks and has also accomplished impressive things in their life. Its time for us men to move on beyond the swiping women in their 20s whos objectives are temporary. We as men should consider an equal and ambitious partner. A woman who is confident, fuckin badass, and has been doing important things with her life.

Courting and marrying a woman between the ages of 30 and 35 might be something to consider.

[thegirlfromthething]

Men can try to be hypergamous but few will succeed. Traditionally the man is the dominant one and the primary provider and it will be tough for guys to get into relationships where they’re the ones dating up and the roles are flipped.

[MzAsh]

Yes, not to mention so many of the trad and red pill guys say they’d rather the woman make less than him.

[Apope16]

all good points. but that i think has more to do with patriarchy and the disrespect that women have toward men. women will simply refuse to date guys who are on a low income status than them. with that said, I wrote the my take more as a refusal for men to date lower than their status. So a lawyer should only be dating other lawyers or doctors or well educated women. No matter how charming the stripper or the grocery store clerk is... he shouldn't date below his status.

I dont believe this myself. it is just a controversial idea that i am putting out there for people to debate.

[devilman666]

Then birth rates will plummet until we get our way. We'll destroy the human race if we have to.

[coffeewithcream]

@MzAsh You have no idea what Red Pill means, or defines, obviously.

[MzAsh]

@coffeewithcream I know about the red pill from the matrix, and how the manosphere used the term for their agenda, and then again how the men’s rights movement also used it to make the documentary starring that lunatic Paul Elam.

[coffeewithcream]

@MzAsh The documentary, The Red Pill, featuring interviews with men including Paul Elam, was a project of a feminist, Cassie Jaye.
Feminist protests greeted the film's initial screenings with views that the film should not be shown at all.
The red pill in the Matrix movie scene is offered with a blue pill, and has come to signify being comfortable with ones naive beliefs, the blue pill, or simply not taking a pill, or taking the offered red pill to discover the truth.
The resistance to the issues presented by these men is similar to the resistance of women's issues in the 1950s. It took a long time before a significant number of people realized there was an issue at all, and still further before action could be taken on them.

[MzAsh]

@coffeewithcream I understand all that, but the film needed a better lead representation other than Paul. He’s on his best behavior in it.

[youknowbetter]

She’s right. This is a unchecked privilege women have that feminists will NEVER admit.

[thegirlfromthething]

@youknowbetter I am a feminist.

[devilman666]

@thegirlfromthething "I like traditional men but also I'm a feminist", you're the worst kind of hypocrit. That's the equivalent of me saying "I'm not a traditional man, but I want a traditional woman who will also be the breadwinner".

[nelly83]

@Apope16 Doctors DO marry other doctors. I have seen many cops marry other cops. Lawyers marrying other lawyers. You just never hear about it in the media. But it does happen. Back then historically men are seen as providers so all women would chase to date doctors lawyers. Men also saw themselves as more providers so they also wanted to date down

But now times have CHANGED. we are seeing an increasingly number of doctors marry other doctors. Finance investment bankers marrying female investment bankers. Female lawyers dating male detectives.

You date the people who you are around with the most. If you are a male lawyer, chances are you will be surrounded by lawyers and paralegals. I have seen doctors insist on dating a female doctor rather than a nurse. It comes from the belief that they want to date someone on their level of intellect and education. Sort of like a league thing. They want to date someone within their own league

[nelly83]

@devilman666 a feminist wouldn’t have a breadwinner cus she would be a working woman too. Feminists like women to work but it doesn’t mean that they want to actually turn into men. Everything is biological. Men are designed with brains to protect women.

[thegirlfromthething]

@devilman666 Where did I say I like traditional men? I want a relationship where we both have careers and contribute financially and neither of us is dominant.

[devilman666]

"Traditionally the man is the dominant one and the primary provide and it will be tough for guys to get into relationships where they're the ones dating up and the roles are flipped."

[thegirlfromthething]

@devilman666 I described what people traditionally do. Nowhere did I claim I personally seek that kind of relationship.

[nelly83]

@devilman666 a woman who wants to be the sole provider Ans physical protector of her man is not biologically a woman. Only a man would have this instinct of protecting women. Women protect children, not men

[devilman666]

@nelly83 that doesn't sound very feminist of you.

[nelly83]

@devilman666 you don’t even know what feminists are like. I am a feminist because I believe that women should have the freedom to live without a man. And you can’t have any freedom unless you have money.

But it doesn’t mean I don’t like a man who physically protects me from harm. It’s hard wired in female biology that we love men who can protect us physically. I don’t expect him to provide for me financially but I also won’t date a loser who can’t pay his own rent

[devilman666]

@nelly83 so you want men to be stuck in their traditional gender role but you want women to be free? Traditional women were dependant on their man, that was one of the only reasons men were willing to be the sole protector and provider, without that we have no incentive, so you can split the bills 50/50 with us, and protect yourself.

"It's hard wired in female biology...", yeah and it's hard wired into male biology to seek out a submissive wife who will be dependant on you and do everything she can to support you emotionally as you support the family. Todays women are toxic and that's why men have lost interest in being providers/protectors. I dont expect her to be stuck in the home though, but I'm not going to date some loser woman who can't cook or clean.
*this paragraph is mostly sarcastic, trying to show you how hypocritical you're being.*

So you're a massive hypocrit who thinks women should be free to live their lives however they want, but men should be forced to be traditional to make you happy? Within a couple generations all traditional men will be gone, as it is, most "traditional" men today are just simps, aka submissive men who act "traditional" in an attempt to get sex.

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

@thegirlfromthething do you think that the person that is in a relationship with someone that makes less money is dating down?

[thegirlfromthething]

@ThisIsMyOpinion Yeah. There are other factors that can affect whether each person dates up or down but money is one of them.

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

@thegirlfromthething there are many factors and money is one of them... So every quality or trait that one has better or over the other means that one person is dating down in that "category"?
I like to look at things as a hole. If a persons qualities overall match their partners neither is dating down.

[FriedPickles1218]

@ThisIsMyOpinion I agree with this. I personally believe women put waaay too much emphasis on income/education. Of course you need to be working in order to provide a stable living for yourself, but I don't think it should hold as much weight as it seemingly does. Honestly, most guys could care less how much money a girl makes as long as she's doing something with her life.

[FriedPickles1218]

Not to mention that a college education is a VERY unstable investment in this day and age. It doesn't guarantee you anything, and I bet dollars to doughnuts that at least half of all college students don't even know what they want to do. They just went because they were told that's what they "should" do. Add to the fact that were in the middle of a pandemic...

Millions of people are unemployed right now. People are struggling every day. I don't have a degree but guess what? I still have a job and I work 7 days a week in order to help my sister out. How many people do you really think are going to be eager to take out student loans after we finally get out of this disaster? I don't know. But my point stands. One last thing I will say is that neither of my parents finished college, yet they still managed to provide my sister and I with a great life. So...

Priorities don't seem to be in check here...

[nelly83]

@devilman666 just because I am submissive and feminine , it doesn’t mean that I need to ask permission to buy all the makeup clothes shoes beauty products that I want. I like freedom to buy Watever I want. Yes women can be materialistic too.

Just because I want to become a mother , it doesn’t mean that I want to stay bored stuck at home my entire life. It is boring as hell and I like to feel challenged. This is why I’m a feminine lady who wants a career. And let’s be honest, you wouldn’t be able to support a housewife and 3 kids anyways , unless you make 6 figures or more.

There are nuances in everything. You cannot stereotype women , saying that if you’re feminine , you must like pink , you must not eat with your fingers , you must not ride horses , you must be a stay home mom, you must not be materialistic cus you’re reliant on a man for a living, you must not like freedom if you’re a feminine woman.

Same way how you cannot stereotype gay guys or lesbians. Not all gays act feminine , not all of them wear pink, not all lesbians look butch, not all lesbians work as garage mechanics or garbage men.

I am a feminine woman but I’m not necessarily a traditional woman.

[nelly83]

@FriedPickles1218 most women care about their income and education because they want a more decent living Ans life style for themselves. We are no longer traditional gold diggers where we get married at the age of 19 to some guy to support us.

With enough income, I can afford to pick the man I want to marry without having to nitpick in how much money a guy makes.

The reality is , rich educated folks tend to marry other rich educated folks. Poor folks tend to marry other poor folks. College educated folks like to marry other college educated folks.
if you want to marry a rich man, Your best bet is to be educated and have money yourself. People date and marry those who they are surrounded by on a frequent basis.

A billionaire is not going to roam through the ghettos to knock on your door Ans propose to you. Such thing is only a dream

[devilman666]

@nelly83 "there are nuances in everything" except for straight men, we have to be traditionally strong and dominant providers/protectors, straight guys are the only people you are allowed to stereotype "men are designed with brains to protect women". Also, remember you said this earlier, "a woman who wants to be the sole provider and physical protector of her man is not biologically a woman", seems to me like you're the one who has a problem with stereotyping.

[nelly83]

@devilman666 I only wanted freedom. And you can’t have freedom without having your own income. Just because I want Freedom, it doesn’t mean I’m not a woman.

I will always crave a masculine man while working my career regardless of your hateful words. And there are lots of men who respect working women. The guy im seeing right now is absolutely wonderful masculine man

[nelly83]

@FriedPickles1218 you can’t have it both ways. You expect women not to care about how much money a man makes yet you say that it is men who should support women. If my husband is supporting me, I WILL care how much money he makes.

And men complain about women taking half their assets upon divorce. Yea your wife will take half your assets even tho she hasn’t worked a day in her life because you didn’t want to marry a woman who works.

[FriedPickles1218]

@nelly83 yes, I knew all that already. My point is women care about it more than men. It's probably one of the reasons so many women have trouble finding someone. Their over prioritizing it.

[nelly83]

@FriedPickles1218 most women would gladly date someone on their own level. But I do agree some women are more pickier than others.

[FriedPickles1218]

@nelly83 yeah, but I never said men should support women. I meant they should be able to support themselves.

[nelly83]

@FriedPickles1218 it’s good that you don’t think that way but most men on here hate working women

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

@nelly83 Sadly I agree that many men here don't like working women.
I actually find it funny. Not only they don't want a women that makes more than them, but they also believe that women only date men that make way more money. Since they believe this nonsense, they want women to not make any money so that they will date them.

[nelly83]

@ThisIsMyOpinion this website attracts these types of men: 1. Men who can’t get any women 2. Misogynistic men.
A huge reason why they don’t like working women or that they insist on dating women who make less money than them all has to do with wanting power and control over women. By marrying a woman who doesn’t work, he can have absolute control over her. When a woman makes more money than him, it makes him feel a loss of control over her. It also makes him feel insecure as a man because a woman can be better than him. Many of these assholes are misogynists, In other words, they think women are inferior and should stay inferior to men

When a guy says he only finds women without an education or job to be attractive, you better be careful because such guys tend to be extremely egotistical and misogynistic. The type of guy who would get mad if you ever succeed at anything because he doesn’t want to lose his grip over his woman. He always wants to be the best , not you.

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

@nelly83 what you just said should be read by everyone on this site.
It's sad to see guys so insecure that they need to be better than the person they are dating in everything to control her and to be able to feel manly.
Welll everything except looks. They don't mind if their girl is much better looking.

[dc-refugee]

@ThisIsMyOpinion For some men it’s not insecurity, it’s a rational preference. I am averaging 200k income annually. But I have no kids. Thus, a career woman working 50 hours a week and delaying a family so she can earn money and promotions simply does not fit with where i am in life. For my life circumstances, what is the benefit if a career woman to me? I’m not opposed to a woman who wants to reboot her career after the kids are old enough.

[joeblow123]

@devilman666

LMFAO

[nelly83]

@ThisIsMyOpinion it’s really refreshing to see a genuinely good man on this website. But I also realize that men on here also do not represent the regular male population as a whole outside of this website.

[nelly83]

@dc-refugee you don’t make 200k annually. If you had that much money, you would be an extremely ambitious man. The type of man who values hard work education learning and perseverance. You wouldn’t respect a woman who has never worked towards an education or a decent job nor would you respect a woman so poor that she can’t buy herself a cup of coffee at McDonald’s.

I work around professional guys who make a lot of money so I know what they are like. people marry those of their own kind. Unsuccessful men marry unsuccessful women. Smart educated men marry smart educated women.

[nelly83]

@dc-refugee men who make a lot of money worked very hard in life for a very long time to get to where they are. It takes extreme ambition , education hard work. Such a guy is not going to respect a woman who knows absolutely nothing , lazy, can’t pay her rent , never held a job, doesn’t have a good education.
A man who would respect such a woman is a loser.,

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

@nelly83 No they are not. Like you said this site attracts men who can’t get any women and sexist men. Many times both!

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

@dc-refugee why not? During maternity leave she can take care of them and after maternity leave there are options like hiring a nanny with all the money you both have.

Also what do you want for yourself then? A women with no desires or ambitions of her own? A successful men knows the value of a successful women.
There is no better relationship then one where both partners stand in equal ground.

[Haha456]

@Apope16

and men dont want to date women who make more than them cuz it hurts his ego?

women dont owe you anything.

[beebsfeebs]

This Apope16 guy is a true legend.. love your articles with some sprinkles of trolling bro.

[Apope16]

Thanks a lot man. I am totally trolling homie. I love how people think that I am this hard core believer in all of this. No. I give a controversial take so that people can debate it between each other. I push the boundaries of thought to explore the deepest societal framework of conclusions.

[beebsfeebs]

You should post in places where you can make more money... I think medium. com pays well. But I'm not sure... check it out

[Apope16]

Well... in real life I am more of a feminist. If I am public ally expressing my beliefs you probably wouldn't like it.

[beebsfeebs]

That's fine... your style of writing is amazing... you know how to get the readers attention... whatever views you have.. you'll make an impact.. who knows maybe you'll get really popular one day and make shit load of cash

[Apope16]

Thanks a lot man. I appreciate it. I suppose I have a flare for sensationalism. Kind of like Trump. I am knee deep into controversy and then it pisses people off but gets everyone talking. My goal is to have everyone talking

[Broken_doll]

That's great. I would love to see your views

[sejla]

Do whatever floats your boat. At the end of the day a person has to like their partner enough that they can stand them enough to stay in the same room with them. No matter how much money or social status a person has that shine will eventually get old if that’s all they are offering.

[coachTanthony]

Women are much smarter then men when it comes to being the alpha in the relationship. Believe me they are smart enough to get the prenup... smart enough to still have the man TRY and pay for everything.

The financially secure women will not be taking you on trips to Spain... they will be going with their girlfriends and leaving you home with chores.

Hypergamy doesn't work for men because women are women with money or not.

[Xoxocutekitty]

Based on the current institution of marriage, it would be a higher earning woman to would have to protect her assets in the case of a divorce when the father becomes the sole caretaker. Divorce courts often "favor" women, because women become the primary caretakers (take care of the kids like 80%) of the time compared to some "weekend visits with dad". So a lot of her financial "favor" goes to supporting the rent for additional bedrooms needed, and the additional groceries, and the health insurance costs, and the things that CHILDREN need. It often does NOT account for her lack of "career mobility" the fact she can't up and change cities, she will probably lose friends since she has less leisure time, not be able to network, and the stigma of being a "burden" to ever date until it hat the kids have attained a level of self-sufficiency.

I would like to see a world where men do take on equal responsibilities as a partner. However, even with the most "Willing" of men, I still find cracks in their esteemed vs actual valuation of tasks. Men can say they value a career woman, and also shirk responsibility for being supportive when their partner comes home slightly stressed from work. Regardless of gender, no one wants to come home to a partner who "works fewer hours" but has managed to lay around watching tv, and asks when you think dinner will be ready. How many men use their "additional time" after work to prepare dinner for their female partner without any sort of conversation? Not many.
Men can say that they value a clean house, yet they also expect a woman to delegate when and how to clean anything. They will only clean when prompted. This puts additional work on the person to not only clean their share, but to delegate tasks, when they may only have a few hours of leisure time. When in the world has live in male partner who "values cleaning" say, "honey, I've done, x, Y, and z, I know you've had a busy week, but if you could get around to doing a, b and c, I would appreciate it." Men who really value something, are also CAPABLE of spearheading projects that are "gendered" with the same enthusiasm as they would for traditionally manly tasks such as "the car" or "house bills."

I love doing house bills, and if I had a car, I would be equally as responsible about it. I have no qualms about chopping woods because I view it as a natural responsibility off having a wood stove, it is not gendered. So why are dishes and sweeping and vacuuming and laundry responsibilities that are seen as "lesser?" Chores and general life responsibilities really should not be gendered. It is often men's refusal to "spearhead" or take full responsibility for tasks, which puts additional burdens on women who have to come back from a more stressful job (in this circumstance) then have to explain to male partners WHY tasks are important, let alone how to do them, let alone going through the mental effort of "Rewarding them" for doing it.

[Anonymous]

OK I don't disagree with everything in the take, but some things need to be set straight...

For starters, average men aren't that picky with women as people make it seem. The average guy considers a decent weight to automatically hover a girl around a 6 or 7. Even if they deny that, usually a girl changes very simple things and suddenly guys love them. That's why oftentimes a girl considered a dork, gawky, nerdy, etc. is suddenly like a model the minute hair gets longer and straighter, glasses are gone, clothes change to lingerie, maybe a bit of makeup added, but weight stays average.

Seriously, looking decent as a girl to the average guy isn't that much a challenge, as guys are often conditioned from day 1 to put girls on a pedestal.

That being said, women have a different story and stats back it up. (https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a ) They judge guys' looks far harsher, so until their own looks are fading, they only go for about 20% of guys. Once they "hit the wall" on looks, suddenly, a guy should still date them?

Absolutely fucking not. I say it's their problem they take too much advantage of looks when they're young and get so judgmental of guys' looks even though we can't help it. Many of us 80% of guys don't like being forced to not be able to date and often be alone until women are "ready." I'm not saying women have to date while young, but if so, why be so judgmental on looks and if they can be, why can't we? Don't they want equality?

Therefore, many of us are walking away. Many of us 80% you talk about that could date women already in their 30's? We bid good luck to them, as we do not hate them, but we just do not need them as we are choosing independence, ...

We are going our own way...

[Anonymous]

Everyone, male and female, should have whatever standards they want. One thing to take into consideration though is you may not get a partner that meets your standards. So, are you willing to potentially remain single for the rest of your life or a very, very long timd? Then go ahead and set those standards as high as you want. Are you not ready to possibly remain single for the rest of your life or a very very long time? Then it is necessary to look at yourself and the people you can realistically attract in a reasonable time frame and set your standards accordingly. Women as a group are more content and happy being single then men are and less of them are looking for a partner, thus they can be more picky as it doesn’t bother them to be single as much as it does men. That also creates a situation were more men are looking for a woman than women looking for a man = men need to keep their standards on the slightly lower side to increase their chances of finding a partner.
you can say theoretocally men should set their standards higher or differently than they typically do but in the end that sexual attraction and longing for sex and partnership is going to win over arbitrary standards they don’t really care about anyway.

[KrakenAttackin]

Women as a group are more content and happy "being single then men are and less of them are looking for a partner, thus they can be more picky as it doesn’t bother them to be single as much as it does men."

Wow! You could not be more wrong. Women can't go 15 minutes without a man. Men can go a lifetime without a woman.

[mistixs]

@KrakenAttackin source for your claim?

[MzAsh]

Men can only be as hypergamous as they can afford to be for as attractive, well rounded, and charming they are. Most men are mediocre and they take what they can get and they like it. If they want a better quality woman that’s fine, but they’ll have to match her quality first.

[Apope16]

Good point. so how does the average guy match a model looking woman's so called high quality?

[Unit1]

Let's not dodge around the bitter truth - By doubling his salary.

[MzAsh]

If having a model looking woman is the aim, he should be pretty good looking himself. But looks are just one out of dozens of good qualities a person can have.

[KrakenAttackin]

Quality? You mean physical attractiveness right? This is the only feature I see most women have to offer. Intellect is not a key feature of modern females.

[MzAsh]

@KrakenAttackin Maybe not the women you meet.

[Broken_doll]

@KrakenAttackin maybe you should stop dating 20 yo girls then

[SkipStop]

Men are attracted to femininity.
Women are attracted to masculinity.
This will always be a fact by nature. Men and women are equal in value but different by nature. Traditional gender roles are the best for both genders. But since not every person finds a partner there is plenty of freedom for both genders to go their own way and do what they want.
Everything pop culture and the mainstream media barf into our heads is pure b. s. and should not be taken seriously.

[Apope16]

very good points. i love the elegance of feminine nature. its sexy asf.

[FriedPickles1218]

I need to find them physically attractive, yes, but I don't care about education or income. I also think women should try to not see less educated men as "dating down" . Physical attraction and relationship compatibility should be top priority in my opinion...

[Apope16]

*THIS

[Broken_doll]

I don't see it as dating down, I see it as... good, now I can work and the guy can cook for me.

[FriedPickles1218]

@Broken_doll Haha really? I do like to cook though and I'm pretty good at it.

[Broken_doll]

Good, wanna marry me? You don't have to work lol

[AlienParasite]

Well, I think it isn't crazy for everybody to try to aim for the best partner possible. I believe that homogamy, aiming for partner with similar wage and studies, could be good to avoid someone beign with you only for the money, and the lack of a big difference in wage could help for the stability of a relationship. Too much differences tend to cause trouble. Similarities cause stability.

However I don't think most men would like dating working women in their 30's, or at least in this website, as in other questions I've seen half of gag's men want a stay at home wife.

On the other hand I don't know to what extent we people can control what makes us attracted to another person. I mean, I don't know if a guy can be hypergamous by his own will if subconsciously a women's income or educational level don't as much as other traits or value even way less than other traits.

[bamesjond0069]

Yeah. This guy is way off base. Working women in their 30s is not trading up. Its literally the lowest on the totem pole of dating value.

[AlienParasite]

@bamesjond0069 "Dating value"? Lol, how cold that sounds. Anyways, what's the matter? There's less demand for the woman so for her that's worse, but if a guy likes a working woman in her 30's, that's good for him, as he would probably have less to compete and more chances than with a girl in her 20's that lots of guys are after. So I don't see the problem 🤷‍♀️

[bamesjond0069]

you're talking about a hypothetical man who does not like universally desirable women. i mean shit maybe he desires obese women... even better for him... more selection with less competition. Damn maybe he loves elderly women and he can go to nursing homes and really pick up the ladies w ease. This is just a nonsensical line of thinking and im pointing it out. Men as a whole find 30 something and older working women to not be very attractive. So the poster makes no sense by saying men should "trade up" by choosing unattractive women. Men do trade up by dumping women that aren't pleasing to them and choosing younger ones. Its a tale as old as time.

[AlienParasite]

@bamesjond0069 I mean that I don't see how does this situation affects you negatively for you to talk about it as if this was a problem.

Also, what do you do when a woman reaches her 30's? breakup/divorce and find a new younger woman? be with someone you find unattractive because you are afraid to be alone? stay with her because you are neither as handsome as you were and can't attract young girls anymore? keep the relationship but cheat with younger women? You know, you talk as if a women at 30 made you wanna puke or something... and any women searching for a serious relationship in her 20's is aware she's gonna reach her 30's, her 40's and her 50's. Honestly, given the option I'd rather be with a man who's able to appreciate beauty at all ages than with a man who thinks I have lost all my value at my 30's. I think the best option for guys like you would be for androids to be well developed and marry a robot that never ages.

[Apope16]

@nelly83 I think the point is that women in their 20s are primarily looking for hookups. They are seeking men for superficial reason. Now when I say "women in their 20s" that is a general term. So lets skip the stupid absolutism where we fall into the trap of "not all women". lets just stop that. Lets recognize that when I say "women in their 20s" I am referring to "most women". They are just not into serious relationships. Many just want to have fun.

So what should men do?

You should date for women who are looking for something serious. Who are ready to start a family. Who are accomplished enough where hypergamy is is at least limited due to the fact that they themselves are accomplished and have affluence to bring into the relationship.

As a man in my 30s, I certainly date women in their 20s. But I dont take them seriously. With 100s of guys on tinder, bumble, cupid, plenty of fish. dating is a game for these women.

As to AlienParasite... You said that I am a well known troll on here. I would not say that I am a troll. I am just popular. My controversial posts and mytakes are popular. Hundreds of people comment on my various posts. Are they controversial? YES. ABSOLUTELY. That is on purpose. I am trying to get people talking. Get people debating. Get different opinions to counter each other to foster a better understanding in society. That doesn't make me a troll. It makes me an "Influencer". That is a GAG Badge that I earned.

AlienParasite... which is a unique name for sure... said "nothing he says is true." That is directly contradicted by the fact that in your conversation with Bamesjond0069... you agreed that what I was saying was true.

With that said.. if you want to know my true feelings on subjects. Just read my advice on GAG in assisting people with their relationship issues. In those situations I am giving my personal opinion rather than serving as a moderator.

[nelly83]

@Apope16 dude you’re another well known obsessed , woman hater on here. Nobody sane would ever believe anything you have to say is actually true.

It’s time for you to get a life instead of being obsessed with hating on women all day and night. It’s just gonna fill you up with bitterness and there’s no chance you will attract any sort of woman , if you hate women. We can sense your nastiness from a mile away

[AlienParasite]

Lol what happened here? I only left for two days.

@Apope16 I, AlienParasite, didn't call you a troll. I think that was one of the other pink users and I believe it wasn't about you, but about one of the others blue users. I don't know how you get to think I said such thing about you. I mean, agreed with your take man! xD

[AlienParasite]

@nelly83 @bamesjond0069 Why don't you PM and fight in private? I mean it's funny how stubborn you both are, but it starts to get boring. I don't know, I'm thinking of silencing this or either erase all your conversation. The second sounds funnier.

[bamesjond0069]

@AlienParasite i dont believe I've spoke to her at all so im not sure how were "arguing". Thats the funny thing.

[nelly83]

@AlienParasite it’s not called being stubborn , it’s called teaching woman Haters a lesson. Obviously you’re probably misogynistic woman too , calling yourself “traditional lady “.

[Apope16]

@nelly83 at this point i am confused and i have no idea who was talking to who. haha. anyway, i gotta go and get ready for a date with a wonderful girl. take care.

[nelly83]

@Apope16 😆 haha you can't get a date which is why you are so obsessed with hating on women. Let’s be honest here: if you’re a hot guy who can get the best highest quality women on earth , why would you spend hours hating on women on here?

Nobody would want someone like you. Even if you do get someone , she will abandon you once she finds out your nasty attitude towards women. You can hide it today but not forever. Good luck to you!! 🤣

[nelly83]

@Apope16 And pretend you aren’t a troll. Anyone who is a frequent on here knows you spend hours and hours typing long essays posed as questions intended to incite gender wars on here. When was the last time you posted a question that wasn’t condescending towards women?

[Apope16]

@nelly83 I have many female friends on GAG. I dont hate women. All of my friends in real life are women. I have maybe 3 guy friends. All of my "best friends" are women.

Second, there are girls on GAG who would tell you that I dont hate women. We talk in PM.

Third, read my mytakes in support of women. "Ladies, You are the Prize" or Mytakes against "MGTOW". There guys call me a "beta male" and a guy who is just "being a female suckup to women".

Fourth, I have a Friends With Benefits and get sex when I want. And I DO have another date tonight. I am dating like 4 different girls. I don't hate women.

Lastly, my posts are controversial. that is the whole fuckin point of my mytakes. to get people debating and talking.

[nelly83]

@Apope16 you’re just the male version of “old spinster maid”. You’re 33, single, unmarried obsessed with spewing shit about women.

Sorry didn’t bother to read what you’ve wrote. Nothing coming outta your mouth has credibility

[Apope16]

@nelly83 Then to everyone reading this you look foolish. If you dont actually read what someone writes then how can you judge them?

You are so triggered that you see fit to be incredibly mean to me and you dont even now me. Fine okay. Whatever. But you are making women look bad over all. And quite frankly, you dont look very smart attacking a writer on a personal basis simply because you can't even defend the merits of what you believe in.

I have a really shocking thing to tell you that you might not like... the majority of my followers on GAG are... WOMEN. That's write. Its women who like my material and my relationship advice and my conversation about sex. So again... with me reaching out and you being a single woman.. just let me know if you have any dating or relationship questions. I am happy to help.

[nelly83]

@Apope16 I have read too much of what you wrote but now I realized you’re nothing but just a woman hater inciting gender wars on here which is why you have lost your credibility. Why would I take what you have to say if u have no credibility?

[nelly83]

@Apope16 I’m not gonna annoy the opinion owner anymore by wasting time on you. Good luck!!

[nelly83]

I am totally for men dating women that are more mature and responsible for their lives. Women who can actually have the maturity , life experience on how to know to raise Ans teach children.

But im afraid most men on here would not agree with you. Guys select wives based on their penises opinion. Most guys wouldn’t care if a woman was mature enough to raise children or have enough wisdom or money to contribute to her family. All he cares about is “if she is still in her 20s, I’ll marry her “

[Dargil]

It is possible but it takes complimentary personalities and life skills.
I knew a foreign born Chinese girl who had PhD's in physics and chemistry. She was likable but klutzy, awkward and kind of idiot-savant. She needed a guy much like the Professional Homemaker wives of the 1950's that basically ran everything but let their husbands believe they were in charge by confiding in them but then feeding them alternatives like junior executives to the CEO. More than once, I heard my grandfather say to my grandmother: "Will you please make up my mind?"
For the HG arrangement to work, he must also bring something into the relationship that gives her long hours and big paycheck meaning. Art. Classic cars. Something, that through him, she belongs to. In effect, they become co-dependent in a positive way. He needs her earnings to function and she needs him to make it matter.

[Anonymous]

When men stop focusing primarily on good looks in a partner then yes they should! But men focus on women’s beauty and women focus on the income and financial stability. I believe that system should stay that way because women usually take care of the children while men work and if women started dating men primarily on looks maybe men should start focusing on a woman’s income aswell because then it would be more equal and fair. Most wealthy working women who are pretty go for attractive wealthy guys

[youknowbetter]

Admittedly most guys are very visual. It’s hardwired into our brains and it’s definitely made me act stupid more than once. It’s also leaves men vulnerable for exploitation (friendzone/gold-diggers) and taking more shit from women then we should.

But honestly if you are not physically attracted to your partner it’s going to be rough ride. I’ve tried dating so so looking women (who were very into me) and sex feels like a chore after a few weeks to a few months. It’s not fair to either one of us.

I just want someone who is on par with me. Not much hotter but not much uglier either. Just a tad in either direction (preferably hotter lol).

But I’m just amazed how many hot women go with average looking guys. Money is part of it. But personality, sense of humor and what a woman perceives as confident (not always REAL confidence) is amazing. This gives hope to average looking guys.

But the problem is you are CONSTANTLY being tested. If an average looking guy hits a depression slump, loses his confidence, sense of humor, etc. she won’t tolerate him long. However if an attractive woman hits the same slump the guy WILL tolerate it much longer. Not indefinitely but she gets more leeway than he does.

[Anonymous]

The first part is wrong, the idea that attraction is based solely on wealth and status and not looks or personality. If it were casual sex and one night stands wouldn't even happen.

The kinds of men who think that what you said there is true are the kinds of guys who struggle in today's dating world, because they think that doing everything they're "supposed" to do is enough.

They go to college, they go to work, they make money, they buy a nice house. Many of these guys then say "I have all of this going for me, but I'm unlucky with women. Why?"

Because despite that you're a dork and you have an unfuckable personality.

Guys like that can't be hypergamous even if they try to be. As others have said it's related to your options and the quality of your options.

[crazy8000]

That's an amusing subject.

Female's that think they date up rarely date up. they only screw up because the male only having some easy accessible sex for a while until he finds someone at his level.
She thinks she date up with those that fools around for a while and got a chance.

Yeah.
It's extremely easy to be hypergamous and most of the female's doesn't see what's happening. sometimes do they notice it when it's to late since she have fallen in love and can't be without him because of to strong feelings.

The funny thing is.
That those that play games doesn't really have anything of value to bring to the table. only issues. bad issues that others have to suffer for.

[Anonymous]

Nice try but the nature of the beast doesn't change with age. After a decades long marriage I am single again. I am fit, make good coin and am considered a good guy. That said, women STILL expect you to pay for them. I dated one woman who was filthy rich with expensive tastes and she STILL never picked up a check. Women are biologically programed to seek men with resources hence female hypergamy; men are biologically compelled to broadcast their seed into a healthy partner who can raise the continuation of his DNA. This is why men seek younger attractive women-as indicators of health.

[lucas262]

Hypergamy as distasteful as it is
Is and instinctual drive every woman has, it can be good for things somewhere im sure

The problem lies in entitleing that behavior and letting it run out of control, pandering to it as businesses do, making what a lot of women do with it socially acceptable.

Male or female if anyone's nature was allowed to be let loose like that the results wouldn't be good.

Iv been mgtow since 2015 and what I learned is you can't hate someone for Somthing they're not aware is even there or can't help feel, you can hold them accountable for their actions

Not every woman is controlled by it but there is a big difference from saying not all women are like that and accepting all women have the capability to be that because it is in their natural instinctual drive to be.

[opnbuk59]

Why just why it is the 21st century women have stepped up but who gives a crap about being lawyer doctor love is what's most important putting anything in front of it is superficial so worried about material things your a slave to it all it does is make you arogeant selfish greedy heartless and all that comes with it can't take it with you but love man it lasts and last forever or love above all rest will come

[Apope16]

in the words of an ex girlfriend when she broke up with me... "Love is not enough'. Its about resources, status, wealth.. so much other stuff for women. Guys should do what ladies do and be just as judging of ladies.

[Broken_doll]

@opnbuk59 I agree. I never dated someone based on their status.

[ThisAndThat]

In a way you could argue that many MGTOW men are hypergamous due to their not having anything to do with women spend money on the date marry etc. They aren't falling for the pet wallet state enslavement scheme to exploit men anymore and instead furthering their goals in life.

[ronaldo75]

Being a male gold digger as a man is really dangerous and a waste of time. Women are much more superficial and egotistical as men are. Materialism is also HANDS DOWN more of a womans's game than a man's. So a rich woman who takes in a male sugar baby is going to be A LOT more rude, nasty, and will throw it in your face more that she's supporting you. You're going to constantly be put down and made to feel like a boy toy who's dependent on a woman. I work in a high-salary field and see this shit all the time. I would advise men NEVER to get involved in gold digging situations. Ever.

[Broken_doll]

@ronaldo75 How do you know? My friend in his 20s dates sugar mamas, they buy him anything and take care of him. He loves it

[ronaldo75]

@Broken_doll Has he lived with one long term or married one? I bet he hasn't. Lets see where he is at 35 when he;s living with a 50 year old and his dick game isn't as good and he isn't as young or tight.

[Broken_doll]

So if that's your hypothesis of what will happen if a young guy gets a sugar mama, then why do you think a sugar daddy wouldn't get tired of the sugar baby and trade her up as well?

[FýrdracaDócincel]

It isn't in a man's nature to consider the status of the woman he's with.

You'd be faking your standards and that's pathetic af.

[Apope16]

agreed. of course it isn't in a man's nature. but philosophically speaking what if men flipped the script on women and were hypergamous to women?

[FýrdracaDócincel]

It would be petty.
It would be really petty.