Are men the "undesirable" gender?

If you look at dating rituals and expectations, especially traditional ones, they seem to be based on the idea of women being intrinsically worthy of love, and men having to work their way up to deserving it.

Women are treated (and treat themselves) as the source of love and intimacy, while men are the demand who must trade something, lest she have no reason to stick around.

Sex is seen as something girls are generous enough to give and men are selfish enough to desire. (Or "skilled enough" to earn.)

And why else would it be such an atrocity for a woman to buy her own meal on a date? If a guy is "cheap" for not paying for his and her food, what does that make her, if she upset that she has to pay anything at all?

There's a lot of talk about how every woman deserves to feel desired. That men should compliment their ladies often. I'm not against that: The world desperately lacks uplifting. But if a man is insecure because he hasn't received a single compliment, he's just a demanding, whiny boy. If he does receive a compliment, it's seen as an undeserved ego-inflation.

Just think about that for a second, girls. Imagine a guy who not only doesn't compliment you, but demands you pay for them just to be considered a good girlfriend? You would have none of it. Nor should you. But guys must either accept this or be considered whiny.

It's a common theme in film as well. If there's a fight, it's because HE either screwed up, and she deserves none of it, or she screwed up, and HE isn't accepting enough to deserve her. I can't stand chick flicks for this very reason.

Now don't get me wrong, this hasn't been all of my dating experience. While I did date a girl who was like this, I've managed to date some awesome girls, and I love doing nice or chivalrous things for a girl who isn't expecting it.

But that isn't the overall culture of dating. I've had to weed through and find the exceptions.


Most Helpful Girl

  • well I don't know bout other women, but this is certainly not the way i see myself or a good man.

    i dont mind paying for my own food.
    i dont mind driving myself to a date.

    yes, i want to feel desired, but gosh, it's so sexy when a man shows it in subtle ways. when it's just flat out, i feel it loses depth. i compliment a man when i want to. not when he asks me. if i give a compliment, i ensure that it will not inflate his ego. all about wording. people should practice that artistry-.-

    i realised you referred to films as examples. not solid ground if ur trying to talk to us about real life. they aren't accurate representations of males or females.

    as for expectations, i dont have many, but i do have standards and i will never drop those for anyone.


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What Girls Said 1

  • Questions like this is what causes the rift between most genders, i will say it time and time again... both genders are NOT different from each other... there are only a couple differences but that's it... but men and women are both as confused about each other and also just as scared as each other when it comes to dating, genders only pretend to be very different from each other because of ego issues... but the other problem is people only see other humans as very simple but we are not... we have many layers, many aspects of ourselves that are NOT wrong to have... the real reality is all humans love to dable and have lots of things they like to do. I know society says you should only do 1 thing with your life... but what do they know?


What Guys Said 3

  • Men have to be desirable on the front end, women on the back end. Since we've already used our talents to get in the door, so to speak. Women have to keep the relationship going on the back end.

    I wouldn't really use media as an example. It's not so much a reflection on society as much as it is "how can we get as many asses in the seat". Same reason Batman always wins. People want to see what they feel should happen. So the female-oriented films naturally have the male be the 'screwup' in the relationship.

  • I salute you for this question. Its a excellent question and has a boatload of truth to it.

  • Yup i agree with you. But i think women desire men but just do not show it as much as men do. Its just psychology i think and the fact that men are always the "chasers" and fight amongst each other to win the girl ever since the beginning of mankind. Not just humans but most other species as well.
    So overall i think it has to do with the culture but its basic roots lie deep in phsychology and biology...

    • That's a common narrative. Though I've been studying bonobos and hunter-gatherers, and it seems the dynamic is mostly socially constructed. I read somewhere about dating in Scandinavia. Girls ask guys out basically as often. Going Dutch is the norm: Paying for the other can come off as intimidating or putting on pressure.

      Oh, and apparently the sort of violence, competition, and "alpha male" social structures didn't even exist until the advent of agriculture. Most groups were polyamorous and everyone had sex with each other. As opposed to the Gorilla-like narrative where every male but the alpha is an expendable commodity to be abandoned or killed. Most of human history was fairly nonviolent until agriculture and settlements.

    • Ohh i didn't know that happens in Europe ...
      Yeah i guess i can agree with you on the "alpha male" thing. Even some tribes in Africa, etc seem to be more peaceful and there is less competition amongst males it seems...