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Well, intelligent people actually seek novel experiences, like those offered by drugs. The average heroin addict has a higher IQ than the average person. Smoking is similar. So you might want to rethink that belief.
@WhistleForTheChoir There is a difference between intelligence and wisdom. Someone with intelligence can be a heroine addict.Someone with wisdom won’t be. Ruining your lungs isn’t an intelligent decision. While I can’t say I would break up with someone for having the occasional smoke, an addiction is a definite no.
@WhistleForTheChoir Thanks for explaining all of that. It was really, really great. The next time I see a heroin addict, I'll think to myself, "Well, there goes a very intelligent person."
@OlderAndWiser Be smarmy all you want, you're still just wrong lol. And a little judgmental. You don't know the factors in their life that led them to that place. It's really easy to think, "the right people always win," so I hope that it helps you in whatever you do.
@VaIiant He didn't say "wise". He said "intelligent". And also, the decision isn't, "do I ruin my lungs or don't I?" There are a few more factors that go into making that decision.
Tfw to intelligent
@WhistleForTheChoir I have many decades of experience with high IQ people. depression, and thrill seeking behavior. This particular question concerns smoking cigarettes, not using heroin; I have not looked at any studies concerning heroin and IQ but I certainly will not assume without reflection that "smoking is similar."There are studies with contradictory conclusions about smoking and IQ. Big Tobacco would suffer even more from studies which conclude that smoking cigarettes is associated with having a lower IQ, so you can imagine that the money of Big Tobacco is used to influence or suppress the publication of these studies. If you do not think that money influences the publication of "scientific" studies, you are naive; I know that it happens from my experience with asbestos litigation.Obviously, there are some people with high IQs who smoke cigarettes but if they behave in stupid ways, I will not call them intelligent.
that. was bent af
@OlderAndWser, I agree 100%. To pick up smoking shows a serious lack of better judgement and to continue smoking given all the evidence surrounding the harms, just screams a lack of intelligence or tremendous ignorance.
@SarahsSummer Agreed completely. And @WhistleForTheChoir, you can be Intelligent without wisdom, but you can't be wise without intelligent, and its wisdom that makes you think about ingesting tobacco into your organs.
@SarahsSummer @Valiant Y'all are changing the subject. He didn't say anything about "wisdom", except for a tacit implication that it applies to him due to his screen name. He said, in fewer words, "People who smoke are unintelligent," which is demonstrably false. Unless, we're just going to let him define "intelligence" however he wants, which I notice redefining terms to suit him is something he does A LOT on this site, and he doesn't accept any challenges because he takes it for granted that he's "Older and Wiser".Also, some people don't care if it kills them. Not because they're stupid, but because they don't care about living until they're 80 or health or whatever else. For some, the health risks don't factor into their decision-making at all. What is important to you, is not necessarily important to other people, and failing to recognize that shows a lack of insight regarding fellow humans. That could be defined as a lack of wisdom.
@WhistleForTheChoir and this...“Also, some people don't care if it kills them. Not because they're stupid, but because they don't care about living until they're 80 or health or whatever else. For some, the health risks don't factor into their decision-making at all.... Could be described as thorough and complete ignorance.
@OlderAndWiser and here we go with the, "I'm older, so take it for granted that I'm right," argument that you never fail to employ. Did it ever occur to you that you could be old and STILL be an idiot? Then you muddy the waters by claiming none of us can really know anything. Implying you must be right. Really, it's impossible to argue with you at all, because at the end of it all, you're essentially saying, "I'm going to use words (like "intelligent") how I want to use them, and project upon everyone that they see the world exactly as I do." IQ is the best measure for intelligence we have (albeit an imperfect one), but if you just say that despite that YOU still think those people are stupid, then there's no point in having a discussion with you is there?Intelligence is sometimes defined as "seeking novel experiences", in which case smoking a cigarette (the first time) would be considered an intelligent behavior. See the danger of shuffling words around?
@SarahsSummer And your insistence that we should all find what you find important, is completely stubborn and narcissistic. So let's just agree to disagree.
@WhistleForTheChoir given the facts that smoking causes many many health and hygiene issues, how in any way shape or form can you consider smoking cigarettes a rational and intelligent decision?
@SarahsSummer Because, first off, really pay attention to this: maybe they don't CARE about their health. You seem to have trouble wrapping your head around that.Maybe they work three jobs and have a cigarette between shifts to unwind because a four minute smoke is something they have time for, whereas a half-hour work-out isn't. Maybe the person considers smoking a sort of early retirement plan, just an investment of $6 a day! Maybe they'll go for the pyrrhic victory and smoking helps them focus when they're writing or working.In short, maybe their priorities are different from yours. You might assume you do, but your priorities aren't necessarily "smarter" than those of other people.
@WhistleForTheChoir To live is to act. To act is to decide. Everyday life is an endless sequence of decisions. Some of the decisions are small and inconsequential, and some are large and life determining. When the pattern of decision-making is rational, we live a rational life. When the pattern is irrational, we live an irrational life. Rational decisions maximize the quality of one's life without violating the rights, or harming the well being, of others. Rational decisions maximize our chances of happiness, successful living, and fulfillment. Critical thinking, when applied to decision-making, enhances the rationality of decisions made by raising the pattern of decision-making to the level of conscious and deliberate choice. No one deliberately chooses to live an irrational life. Many, however, subconsciously choose to live an irrational or unethical life. In doing so, they maximize their chances of unhappiness and frustration, or do harm to others in seeking their own advantage.
@SarahsSummer Yeah, thanks Rousseau. That's a great philosophy if human beings were all spheroid objects of uniform density, and every decision we made carried the exact same consequences and gravity, but in the real world, it's kind of hard to quantify. Once again, focus on the topic at hand, because you're getting a little off-track here again. We're talking about "intelligence", not "rationality". The two are not related at all. Most geniuses are squatting in the woods or living in padded rooms. By employing this argument, you also now have taken on the burden of proving objectively the exhaustive consequences of any singular action and quantifying them in such a way that they could be measured to improve or harm an individual's quality of life, which is impossible.
@WhistleForTheChoir Obviously, you are right. Obviously.In fact, I do question my wisdom on a frequent basis. I have a few friends who are in their early 80's and they are incredibly wise. . . or at least most of us think so.
Drugs and cigarettes are completely different. You actually get something from drugs where as cigarettes they literally do nothing for you.
@joshb Cigarettes are drugs, and it's the same concept. @OlderAndWiser Well, you see, it's not obvious, because I'm arguing. Whereas so far you have used misplaced sarcasm, tried to invoke your age as a trump card, pointed out all scientific studies could be flawed so why listen to any of them, and are now bringing up your 80 year old friends for some reason (?). Just remember what your premise is here: "Being an intelligent person is mutually exclusive with smoking." THAT is what you said. Does that sound defensible to you?
@WhistleForTheChoir DING DING DING!! We have a winner! for most pathetic use of debating skills of the day! Congratulations!! Your parents should be proud.
And that actually bears repeating. The argument you are all defending is, "Smokers can NOT be intelligent." You all seem to be forgetting that. @OlderAndWiser @Valiant @SarahsSummer @joshb
@SarahsSummer Sarcasm doesn't really work unless you point out HOW my argument is bull-shit... just FYI
whistle for the choir; please note that your a bender and dont realise all the cool kids smoke and all the nerds debate about gay shit like this. please choose your catagory more wisely as the cool kids tend to fo better in school
@Seanfahey What the fuck was that? Did you have a stroke in the middle of typing that, because not one of those sentences was strung together? Are you jumping on the, "smoking is mutually exclusive with intelligence" band-wagon too, or just using bitching about something different?
whats your opinion on smoking weed
@WhistleForTheChoir Keep it up, so far I believe that you have the stronger argument here. Risk taking behavior such as (smoking or drug use) are novel experiences that people will seek generally. However, I do believe people who smoke on a regular basis understand the health and risks that are behind it. And they may continue to do so for any number of reasons. But to say people who smoke have a lower IQ is invalid. People who smoke and continue to do so and wish to quit smoking. Can be linked to low amount of will power.Which has nothing to do with IQ!
Weed improves your IQ swear down
its hash that fucks your head up
@Roach765 I'm not even arguing that smoking is an intelligent decision. What @OlderAndWiser said is "[smoking and intelligence] are mutually exclusive." Which is a pretty ridiculous claim to make. And then thirty people pop up to cheer him on. Personally, I think smoking is ultimately a stupid decision, but a stupid decision doesn't make someone stupid. Ask Oppenheimer or Hubble or fucking Einstein, all of whom were smokers. His position is just indefensible which is why he doesn't hit any of my arguments on the head. Instead that whole team is using sarcasm and shit they ripped from their philosophy 101 course to try to justify why it's ok to discount someone's intelligence because they are a smoker.
@WhistleForTheChoir You are arguing an abstract, hypothetical point and the rest of us are talking about the way things actually work in the real world. In my world, intelligent people DO NOT smoke cigarettes. Some of them are depressed and some of them engage in risk-taking behaviors; you though you needed to educate me about that what I was witnessing such tings before your parents were born. Despite the risk taking behaviors, I do not know anyone who is truly intelligent (like an IQ of 130 or above, which is many of my friends and acquaintances) who smokes cigarettes. I don't care whether it is theoretically possible because I don't live in a theoretical world.Dude, go home and have a good Scotch!
@WhistleForTheChoir I'm not arguing Smoking = Non Intelligence. Clearly you are a smoker, given your argument and that you've presented no facts other then just calling what we've all said MUST be stupid. In my experiences, there is a DIRECT correlation between stupid and doing drugs. Not every smart person I've met has done drugs, but every person who does drugs that I've met wasn't intelligent.
@OlderAndWiser I like how you accuse me of being theoretical when you are the one who is arguing a superlative, i. e. "Smoking and intelligence are mutually exclusive", and then directly after that you say "In MY world". "Your" world is not the world, okay? I would think a 62 year old man would recognize that. And for your point to be true, that would mean that there would have to be NO intelligent smokers, which sounds pretty hypothetical. And no one cares about your personal experience because A) it's the internet and B) your personal experience is just that, YOUR experience. Anecdotal. To disprove what you said, I just have to provide an example of one intelligent smoker (such as Oppenheimer, or Freud, or Hubble, or Einstein). In the real world there are people who smoke and are intelligent. What YOU said is theoretical, unless you've personally met and tested the intelligence of every smoker in the world.
@VaIiant I used to be a smoker, yeah. But if you're not arguing that, then stop agreeing with a man who is. Verbatim, he stated, "I cannot reconcile smoking and intelligence; [sic] I think the two are mutually exclusive". What I am arguing with is his claim that intelligence and smoking are mutually exclusive. That means, if true, NO ONE who smokes or has ever smoked can be intelligent. If that's not the point you're making, then I don't know why you're arguing with me, because that's what I'm contesting.And your second paragraph seems like that IS what you're arguing, in which case you're demonstrably wrong. I don't care who one meets or what your subjective experience is, because it's subjected to one's biases.Also, you said both that, "I'm not arguing smoking=non-intelligence" and "every person I've met that does drugs wasn't intelligent." Contradictory, if it wasn't anecdotal, but I doubt you understand why anecdotal evidence is invalid or what it even is. So just contradiction
@SarahsSummer Yeah, still you didn't make a single point that demonstrates how every smoker is an idiot. You just shuffled words around and tried to have a different argument about how smoking is a stupid decision, glaringly failing to indicate how one stupid decision makes someone stupid, so once again the sarcasm isn't helping your case. You just look like someone who is trying to leave an argument in a snarky way when they realized their position is indefensible.
@SarahsSummer So bye! See ya next time, buddy!
@OlderAndWiser Also, using your logic, all I have to say is I know smokers who ARE intelligent, never mind the examples I gave who we all know (like Freud, Einstein and Hubble). I know a guy who was the valedictorian of his class at the local Catholic School, had a bad episode with pills and now that he's clean, but he smokes to take the edge off. So I guess, that disproves your whole point. There must be intelligent smokers after all! But do you understand why evidence like that is dubious?
@WhistleForTheChoir I was pretty clear in my argument earlier when your sarcasm took hold in relating my comments to those of Jean Jacques Rousseau I’m very sorry your mental illness prevents you from understanding the disconnect between harmful wreckless decisions/behavior and the decisions of intelligent people.
@WhistleForTheChoir I never said that MY world is THE world. Falsely accusing me of making such an absurd claim is pathetic. If you are a man, you will apologize for that.The problem in this argument is that you are using "inteligence" to mean something other than what the rest of us mean when we use that word. We are not talking about someone getting a 4.0 in college or having a 130 IQ. We don't care about abstract abilities. The rest of us are talking about people living intelligent lives and making smart decisions. AND people who live intelligent lives and make smart decisions do NOT smoke cigarettes. If you respond and claim that smoking cigarettes is a smart decision, it will be obvious that you are (for whatever reason) quarrelsome and pugnacious and I will then end this discussion with extreme prejudice.
@OlderAndWiser Actually, I won't, because verbatim what you said is, "the rest of us are talking about what happens in the real world. In my world, intelligent people don't smoke cigarettes." So which are you talking about, your world or the real world? Because saying that you're talking about the real world, and then immediately invoking "your" world for your argument would imply you believe the two are inseparable. If that's not what you intended, then why bring up "your world" at all?Your argument, to remind you yet again, is, "intelligence and smoking are mutually exclusive." I never said smoking cigarettes was a smart decision; however, someone can be intelligent and still make a bad decision. It's YOU who is trying to redefine intelligence (So by your definition smart people ONLY make good decisions? Do such people exist? Seems "hypothetical" to me), and YOU who employed the IQ scores of your friends to show that smart people don't smoke.
@OlderAndWiser But I've had enough of your word shuffling so you don't have to admit you're kind of judgmental, and you made a claim that you can't back up. I'm done, you can have the last word.
@SarahsSummer You made an ad hominem attack about mental illness, essentially meaning you've reduced your argument to name-calling. I DO have a mental illness actually, but it doesn't affect my cognitive abilities. Also, my parents aren't that proud of me, because they're dead. Another ad hominem attack you employed earlier.The argument you're defending, in case you missed it is "smoking and intelligence... are mutually exclusive." I don't know what argument you were trying to have, but you've failed to convince me that all smokers are stupid. However, since your last three posts were nothing but ad hominems (personal attacks) and name-calling, I'm just going to be done with you too. Have a good one!
@OlderAndWiser and also just so you're aware intelligence is ONLY an abstract ability lol. And so is the ability you're talking about, call it "prudence". Just about anything that goes on in your head is "abstract".
@WhistleForTheChoir There is nothing abstract about my response to your argumentative nonsense.
@WhistleForTheChoir umm, mental illness actually DOES affect cognitive abilities. Also, an ad hominem attack would be a personal attack irrelevant to the argument. I simply state that your mental illness may be affecting your cognitive abilities in this argument. Which would be quite relevant. Furthermore, my “I’m sorry...” was genuine. I’m also sorry you were raised without a mother and have a strained relationship with your father. I wish you nothing but happiness these holidays and beyond. ☮️💟
always assume he's gonna give up if h want im to. i defo would
That's a myth.
What is a myth lol what