Do guys tend to date down and across and girls tend to date up?

do you agree with that statement?

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Most Helpful Girls

  • i disagree. but my age explains why. its the exact opposite. i will say everyone my age knows all the guys look great and the girls gain weight at the 10 year class reunion. but then 90% of the guys get fat and lose their hair afterwards, where as women, sometimes with the help of botox, start getting better looking! plus a lot of women stop drinking as much as they start worrying about age, opposed to their counter parts. so by the 20th reunion very few guys look decent, many of the women look great and most of the single women date either younger men or men who are way below their pay grade.

    this theory holds water as an older woman is at her prime sexually decades after a male. so it suits to figure a male peaks physically much earlier too.

    i will also mention my theory is that of a upper middle class u. s. world. i am sure sociodemographics and location would change the dynamics.

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  • in what ways? Given that most women aren't and dont have access to people outside of their class groups and generally end up dating men within the same class groups, I'd say there's no strong evidence to support the idea that women with economic opportunities in the western world date up economically. Usually women look for people in the same group as them and would accept more but prefer not to go "down."

    Physically, I completely disagree. In fact, most average joes I see have gfs that are better looking than they are or far more attractive. Someone even told me this - that guys look for girls who are more attractive than they are because they place a high value on beauty/looks/sex. So whereas a woman is looking for a full picture and often dates a guy who is less attractive than she is, you rarely see that with men. So I'd actually say across the board, men date up because they usually dont date women who are less attractive than they are and most women end up with men who are in the same class groups.

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    • I agree with this. True for the most part. I can break it down simply, men are more physical and women are more emotional.

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    • The wealthier a man is the more likely he is to date someone "below" him in terms of education, class, income. Think of it like this, everyone has 100 points. You can spread them over intelligence, looks, formal education, income, personality. So some people will have lots of points in one category but at the expense of another. So if you are a higher income man, you can specifically look to women who have little to nothing in the income and education buckets to find girls who are higher in physical attractiveness and personality. So obviously if you make a good income, looks are way more important than money. If you are a broke dude, you aren't going to be making that trade off so easily.

      Now when you say average joes. They are actually not the low man on the totem pole. Women mostly are like 99% end up in normal society. Men though have the bottom I don't know guessing 15% of the population of men are in jail, dead early, basement dwelling incels. So no the average joe is actually a step up.

    • @Anon you’re a god. Thank you for posting that (and ur comments). I really want to make people aware of this but they end up getting defensive because they’re too emotionally attached to their own ideas. Especially men. They end up calling me an angry feminist. LOL

Most Helpful Guys

  • The first chart explains male and female dating options. 80% of men compete for the bottom 25% of women. 80% of women compete for the top 20% of men.

    So, to a woman, she is looking at these top 20% guys and going, "Well this shit ain't fair. The average guy has plenty of options, and they are picky. They only want the hottest bitches"

    Women are looking at their dating pool, but they're ignoring 80% of guys as even potentially existing in that dating pool. Women see above average men as average, and average men as below average.

    Ask women how many men they find attractive, by default. It's not many. Proved by OkCupid and other dating app statistics, where women rated 80% of men as below average attractiveness. This ties in with 80% of women competing for the top 20% of men. Women see *most* guys as undesirable, by default. Which can change, if he proves himself. But by default, most guys suck, to women.

    What does a woman have to have to be considered desirable? A base level of attractiveness. 80% of women qualify for that.

    What does a man have to have? A hell of a lot more than just decent looks.

    Clarifying: a man does not *need* these things to be successful with women. If he can form a connection, then he can still win. But, that is a specific skill: social skill. Good news is this is learnable.

    But 80% of men end up dating down, because they do not have options. And 80% of women *FEEL* like they're dating down, because they completely ignore 80% of men. They're looking at the top 20% and going, "Shit, I have no chance to get a decent guy." But, in reality, they have tremendously more options than men. They just don't consider them options. And, women consider 80% of men as below average. So they don't look at themselves as dating up, even when they are.

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    • Whoops. Here's the first chart.

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    • @princessfromjupiter I'd totally agree, on most of that. The thing is, availability and desirability dictates *how far* one can date up. What those stats showed was that females perceived males on dating apps as significantly less valuable than they actually were. 80% cannot be below average, but women rated them that way. It's not what they wanted, but *how they perceived*. IRL diff

      This is the state of human courtship. The male demonstrates his value; the female decides. That's how we are, as mammals. The male must prove he is worth risking an egg and potential death. It makes easy sense that females would have higher standards, given the inherent risks involved with sex, no? Maternal death rates are *still* astoundingly high in the U. S. But instinctually, women *need* to know the male is high value. Men do not have that risk, so they are able to be less picky. Sperm is most efficiently used by using as much as possible. Eggs are best used when you *know* they will be high quality.

    • @princessfromjupiter Oh, you're from the Netherlands. And you're hot. I'm of largely Dutch descent. What's it like over there?

      So, since women are more picky, and they control sex [by determining which males reproduce and which don't], that means females--on average--have many more choices ['cept for the top 20% of males who have all the choices]. Hence the graph.

      Simply put. Women are more desired. Because female value is innate, due to male un-pickiness; while male value must be proven via action. That 80/20 study showed that only very few males have *default* value to women.

      Basically: women have to be romanced and/or convinced, where males are *already* convinced based primarily on appearance [though, she must prove her long-term value].

      Anyways, I'm not using this as, "Woe are we males--curses to female advantages". I'm looking at it objectively and saying, "This is how it is, so we must adapt and grow, while understanding what our respective challenges are."

  • I believe that what we are all really discussion is a very basic and fundamental concept expressed across all species on earth - natural selection. Humanity tend to forget about this because we have a brain and believe somehow laws of nature do not apply. In the human heterosexual construct men compete for the best mates and women hold the more powerful role of selection. Humanity are a little different than the rest of the species on earth because competition is multilayered. By that I mean that men can be physically attractive, have access to more resources, or demonstrate higher intellectual capacity / capability. These three areas are where men compete and they can possess varying amounts across all three areas.

    Women on the other hand select what is to them the best. What is appealing to one woman is not necessarily so to another. Although women select they also need characteristics to be approached by men. These characteristics are beauty, intelligence, and personality. Now women can and do have their own resources but typically a man is not interested in how much a woman possesses. There are exceptions but the overwhelming cases is this is not important and certainly not as much as the other three.

    When a man approaches he will be drawn almost always by the woman's beauty. Afterward he will assess intelligence and personality to determine whether he should pursue further. When the man approaches the woman she also will be looking for attractiveness but there are outward signals of wealth (Rolex, clothes, shoes, etc.) the man may have that enhance his opportunity. Women, unlike men, will not always reject the advance of a partner on the basis of attractiveness. She may wait for a demonstration of mental ability (personality or charm I would also place here) or resources depending on what she deems to be more important.

    The result here is that men will typically compete for more attractive women (also younger for purposes of children) and women will generally select on the basis of some level of attractiveness but mental ability and resources will most likely be more important so she and her children can live well and be more intelligent.

    This is the reason you see men with younger and prettier women than they are and you see women with less attractive and possibly older men. What I laid out here is a generalisation and there are certainly statistical outliers, but this is a good rule and holds up for the greater majority of human relationships.

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Have an opinion?

What Girls Said 20

  • To what I've noticed beautiful people tend to date down and ugly people tend to date up.
    I've seen a tons of attractive guy with ugly girls and a tons of beautiful girls with ugly guys.

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    • Attractive guys focus on the wrong thing: A lot of these guys get the muscles and fail a lot with women, then fat and ugly pays attention to him and he settles. He doesn't hold onto his courage.

      Beautiful women tend to focus on the wrong thing: A partner with 6 figures would do, a partner who is ambitious would do, but why do that when you can get an ugly rich dude who can provide it NOW? Worse comes to worse, you can always divorce him. As a result, a lot of women are ending up single: Hypergamy is working against her.

    • @Wammu Some attractive people get cocky and in the end it work for them.

      What you said, sound really logic. I didn't thought of that, I just thought they didn't cared much about their partner attractivness.

  • No, I think everyone ever aspires to date up, regardless of gender (unless guys are economically irrational idiots) and starting points in terms of 'individual attractiveness'.

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  • I agree with that statment partly.
    I see a lot of guys dating girls that are not so attractive as they are and i see it more than i see females dating less attracrive men than them.
    I feel like some attractive guys do date across and down well most and average girls most of the time date across or above, the most attractive girls will someohow most of the times date under though.

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  • I think a successful man is much more likely to have a bombshell wife/gf than a successful woman.

    Non rich men are less likely than non rich women to have a partner more attractive than them.

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    • dang haha, what's up with all the hate. It's true XD

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    • @Wammu dude stop...

    • I do what I want.

  • No Lmao wtf. Guys only date up; girls who are more attractive than they are. Guys literally believe they DESERVE a pretty woman even if he’s fat

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    • It's funny, because I've got a six-pack, I'm 6"2 mountain of muscle, a nice face, got some game and I get rejected a LOT. . . I don't think y'all really care about a guys looks, and those of you who do only really bring them up to make yourselves sound better than you really are.

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    • @Wammu you're being called a narcissist because of narcissistic traits, I was just gonna say that you're probably an asshole, super boring, or both

    • @EsketitJack does it always have to be internet psychology with you people? Shouldn't a person who has worked hard for his good points just say them without being called a narcissist? And does every response to trash talk and name calling always have to be seen as a calling card for some psychological weakness when in reality: nobody likes trash talk?

  • i see it quite often, people say it's because girls tend to like more mature men, while guys like younger, pretty girls
    there are memes everywhere of college senior boys dating incoming freshmen girls

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  • Mostly disagree. It all depends on of girls of what her attractive. other times some girls have to go up. in my family group. My sister has an older boyfriend then her and my mum has an older husband. My current boyfriend is younger than me.. so. you don't prove anything.

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    • But being old or young doesn’t equal ugly or beautiful automatically?

    • It just the experience that I only attractive to younger men.

  • Probably... I always feel like I date down in terms of intelligence and money. Lol 😂... looks is debatable 🤔

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  • I disagree, that's the BS redpill and mgtow can come up with.

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  • It's their own personal taste and choices. I can't just say who should date whom.

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  • Because they don’t want to give the hope of getting laid.

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  • i date in a diagonal

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  • Disagree

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  • Sometimes but not always, everyone is different.

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  • huh/

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  • Yeah

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  • Yeah usually girls date older guys

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  • Agree.

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  • Pretty sure I’ve seen more good looking girls with average men than the other way around (not saying it doesn’t happen though because it does).

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  • It depends. After we broke up, my boyfriend dated dooooooooooooooooooown though.

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What Guys Said 60

  • That would leave no one for the ugliest guys and the prettiest girls.

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  • In Asia, that is definitely the case, but in the West, this is less the case.

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  • All I'm gonna say is this, 2 things are gonna kill a LOT of bloodlines:

    1.) The hypergamy of every woman who has ever attended college. (ya'll only got so much time.) A LOT of you are good people, but you seriously gotta choose. . . Career or family? You can't have both.

    2.) Pussy guys who have internalized Daenerys Targeryn and wish to be dominated by their female partner and think that's gonna fly. . . .(I used to be one of them.)

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  • Women look for social value. This can be any number of things, looks, income, personality, intelligence, whatever it takes that makes social status. In that sense, yes, I think they look for someone higher status than them.

    Guys primarily go for looks and if a woman is what he deems to be above him in levels of physical attractiveness he will date down because it's just easier. A woman he thinks is out of his league is stressful to date.

    So in a sense, I would agree with your statement.

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  • No, that's impossible unless you believe on average that on your scale women are at a lower level than men. If education figures in your idea of up/down then the US today it's the opposite. More women than men attend college so women on average are more educated.

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  • I tend to date across with a few spikes... it's not easy to date up when you're 28/10...

    In any case, now that I've garnered everyones hate and loathing, you'll listen more attentively now. The reason i date across and have had a few down.. is because beautiful girls tend to be as thick as anything and I'm jjust not into looks without substance.

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  • never thought of it that way. have dated rich, poor, established, with nothing, beauty contestants, professional cheerleaders, cashiers, waitresses, hairdressers... you get the idea. am sure there are many who DO consider it in those terms.
    would be VERY disappointed to discover a gal i was dating was doing so in such terms and evaluating based upon "rankings." although... it would make a strong case for ending the relationship.

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  • For casual sex women definitely have an easier time dating up in terms of physical appearance. Men are far more likely to hookup with someone less attractive than themselves. Women, even if they are only average looking typically hookup with guys who are conventionally hot.

    For relationships women tend to date up in terms of wealth which makes it easier for a man to date/marry up in terms of physical appearance if he has an above average salary.

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  • That used to be true more than today.

    Women have obtained equal opportunity with men, and therefore most pairings represent assortative mating, where the man and woman are more intellectually equal.

    Personally, I divide women into three groups: Those I won't date. Those I would have sex with, but no relationship, and those that I would have a relationship with.

    Women that are significantly beneath me intellectually could at most qualify for the sex with no relationship group.

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    • Dating up or down has nothing to do with intellectual abilities or looks or anything like that. It is strictly wealth. Younger girls date wealthy men. That is what it means.

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    • @bamesjond0069
      If he were intelligent, he wouldn't be poor.

    • Um, there are tons of poor intelligent people. And there are some dumb wealthy people.

  • Women are inherently hypergamous; that's a fact. Men's options are more limited, so we tend to date within our own social status exclusively. Make no mistake, most confident and foolish men will date up if given the chance. I don't, because I know a woman above me in status will be even quicker to dump me for the BBD than someone on my own level.

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  • Yes. But girls tend to like guys that are more emotionally mature and can share vulnerability and make that emotional connection, and they like guys who are financially stable too.

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  • That's kind of a true... Women make their men, so if she's dating up, it's because she has invested in her man that way. There's a really interesting thing that happens once you hit the working world, where the girls start chasing guys. Essentially, what they are doing is placing their bets on men, instead of the other way around. Even the insanely hot and desirable girls will chase after guys who they think will be successful, because they are trying to make a king.

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  • Women want someone in the top 10% of men while men will take whoever they think of is compatible in the long-run. Of course we often get it wrong and as men become older their standards drop or they keep ridiculously high standards and wind up single for their rest of their lives.

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  • Yes, it's in a women's genetics to date up. Primal women wanted the strongest and best genetics on a man so that the species could have strong children.

    While primal men did look for genetics because men where nomadic back then they could breed with all the available women in an area.

    In today's society we don't need Any of those things but it's still hardwired into people's brains.

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  • Usually they do. Many times the only qualifications the woman needs is to be physically attractive and not to get on his nerves.
    The guy usually brings much more to the relationship. Not always, but it is often the case.

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  • Guys will t ake what they can grt. Girls have terminal hypergamy. They always shoot for higher than there looks are capable of landing. a female 4 thinks she should have a guy who is no less than an 8.

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  • I don't agree. It really depends on the individual. Would type more but typing is painfully slow from my phone on this website for some reason.

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  • From what I've seen I'll say I agree with this. It's quite rare I see a girl with a guy and think to myself "she could do better" but it's a lot more common for me to see an attractive guy with a less attractive women.

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  • up when they are younger and down when they are older.

    women date the way that has the most money.

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  • Explain what u mean by "down and across"
    Do u mean their seating position when at a restraint or something when on a date?
    Down and across?

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  • Not sure about everyone but there’s some unique traits that they have to fulfill for me to even be interested.

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  • I'd say men. Tend to date up, but a good portion of that is women actually (by statistics) are more picky about a man's appearance than a man is about a woman's. A study showed that women rated 80% of men as unattractive, and men rated 60% of women as attractive. Therefore if every man and woman were ordered by attractiveness, (yes this is impossible to do objectively) and every man and women matched with the same positional attractiveness, there would be about 40 % of women who are considered attractive to men, matched with men that are considered unnatractive.

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  • as far as physical possessions, I think it's true. But look wise, I think guys date up and across while girls date down and across.

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  • Yes and no. I go for full picture but some attraction is needed, that goes for both sexes.

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  • Not exactly. women tend to go for resources while men go for youth and looks. im neither calling women sluts nor men superficial its just biology

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  • Considering I've been dating up essentially my whole life I can't say I agree.

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  • @mezzymezzmez
    It's the other way around with us. 💕
    I mean if we would date... 😃

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  • When growing up, I hung out with kids a lot older than me and I dated a few of them too. These days I still goes for girls up to their mid 20s.

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  • I've always dated down. But my sister also always dated down. I have some male friends who always date up...
    So I can't agree.

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  • I just want that turns me on, and supports me through thick and then, oh yea and doesn't nag me about stupid shit because she's insecure.

    It's harder to be an attractive man because women believe beauty is the woman's duty and money is the man's duty, so If I look better than her in her eyes, she writes me off, its really annoying.

    I'm just like the ugly guys that aren't rich too, actually we all are the same, its just ugly guys got it easy because on average a beautiful woman can feel pretty with a ugly guy.

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